Is Masculinity out of Fashion?

 

As for sexuality, what gave you the idea that a real man has to want to shag anything that moves? That to me is the concept of a man-whore, not a real man.

I agree with a REAL man acting on his word.

A REAL man will want to shag anything he wants and not feel guilty or sorry for it. A REAL man will pursue anyone he wants. Goal oriented in everything he does.

Ooh I like Taramere! Very feminine. Very sexy. =D I'm glad you don't believe in the "equality" dribble. Not saying one sex is better than the other, however it's refreshing (especially seeing some post on this site) to see someone post about the colorful differences between men and women.

Yin and Yang as you said.

Let's hang out!

Masculine men out of fashion? God, I hope not.

If the guy is single, then yes I agree with you. (As long as he is acting accordingly to the law)

 

If he is in a relationship, then you are incorrect. A man should compromise and care to an extent what his partner thinks of him.

I agree but the woman should be worth that compromise.

Am I totally off here, or has it not become more fashionable for men to behave like women (submissive & emotional) and women to behave as men (aggressive & calculating)?

Not where I live. I'm from the South and manly men are alive and well....

But to be fair I am mostly surrounded by men who work blue collar jobs and work with their bodies for a living - carpenters, plumbers, electricians, roofers (all friends of my SO). So them being "manly" is rather par for the course. Most of them play soccer in their spare time, too.

I find metrosexuals and effeminate men to be off-putting and unattractive.

I agree but the woman should be worth that compromise.

Well if she is not, then its the guys fault for staying in a relationship with her.

Edit: What's a "masculine" stereotype for you, Carhill?

Evolved or traditional? I'll guess traditional...

Controlled emotions

Physically strong

Established routine

Loving with actions at the expense of words

Relatively rigid in thought and instinctively unyielding to new opinions and experiences

Well-attended and regarded at their funeral, meaning they either had a lot of friends or enemies

There is a nuance I often note in males that seems to be overlooked by females who are attracted to them, often at their own peril, that being compartmentalization; the ability to apply different sets of rules and values to different situations and behave and act completely differently. It's likely a remnant of primitive culture where men had to go out every day and kill for food or protection and then return and be loving and supportive to family and community. We often see conflict with this within the minds of soldiers who are trained to kill and have a hard time adjusting to peaceful life after being in harm's way.

Looking at the above list, it well-described my father, except for the rigid thought part. His mind was always expanding and he constantly embraced the new and different, which is why I think he chose to socialize me the way he did. His big downfall was that he internalized his emotions and I believe, ultimately, the stress killed him.

I have a theory that emotion always seeks a balance, so a man who appears superficially stoic and unfazed by actions around him actually processes those emotions into other areas. Women appear to be attracted to such men, or so I've read here, because they appear stable and confident, the key being the appearance. Reality once in a relationship is often different, as many stories here bear out.

Evolution, I believe, will level the playing field, producing men who are overtly emotional, yet confident in the strength their emotions bring to their lives, and be more open to both new ideas and relationship dynamics. I think this will help them live longer and have more fulfilling lives and relationships.

Ooh I like Taramere! Let's hang out!

How far can you carry 125 pounds? That's not me in the bath.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/ar...&

Quote:

RELUCTANT BREADWINNERS: Men are being kept at work despite a desire to spend more time with families

3 April 2007

Being the breadwinner was once a proudly masculine role.

These days men are happy sharing the responsibility - and housework - with their wives or partners, a survey has found.

There's only one problem. The women are dreaming of a man who earns enough money so they can stay at home.

The findings suggest men are willing and able to accept the feminist view of family life - spending less time at work and more at home with the children.

Women, it seems, are the only ones who aren't so keen. And they are not shy about letting their husbands know their views.

The survey found half of all men with young children felt under pressure from their wives or partners to 'earn enough so that she can be a full-time mother'.

Four out of ten men are urged to earn more so that their wives can work part-time rather than have a full time job.

And only one man in eight has a wife or live-in girlfriend who wants to work full-time no matter how much he earns. 71% of the 2,000 men surveyed by men's magazine FHM said they did not want the role of family breadwinner. Instead, they preferred 'a 50/50 role with their partner, sharing work, childcare and housework'.

'Men like the idea of spending more time with their children and sharing the huge financial burden families today face.' said FHM spokesman Chris Bell.

'The problem is, women are now changing their minds. More and more women want to give up their careers when they become mothers.'

Quote:

The findings from the annual FHM Male Lifestyle Survey found increasing numbers of men across Britain believe their role in relationships and families has changed dramatically from their fathers', with more than half of men claiming it's women who make the rules.

Some men feel under threat from increasing female influence in their lives and a huge majority believe society is actually trying to feminise them.

The survey of 2000 men across the UK is one of the most surprising insights into the modern male psyche.

And FHM magazine editor Chris Bell said it showed men are adapting to increasing sexual equality for women by wanting to share roles.

He said: "Far from feeling disenfranchised by the change in their traditional male role, men now want a 50/50 partnership both workwise and familywise. Once a family arrives, men no longer want to be the sole breadwinners, who are lucky to spend a few minutes with their kids before they fall asleep."

Two thirds of men said that, as far as families were concerned, they wanted an equal share of financial and caring responsibilities with their partner - and that includes bringing home the bacon.

But while men are becoming more intent on sharing responsibilities, they also feel their better halves want to spend more time at home.

Almost fifty per cent of men said that after the birth of a child, around half of women said they wanted the man to earn enough so they could give up work to be full-time mums.

And 38 per cent of men said their partner only wanted to work part time.

The survey revealed that 51 per cent of men think that they live according to women's rules, while 81 per cent feel that society tries to feminise men.

Almost half of males questioned said they would describe themselves as "new men", while only six per cent wanted to be seen as macho.

Not where I live. I'm from the South and manly men are alive and well....

 

But to be fair I am mostly surrounded by men who work blue collar jobs and work with their bodies for a living - carpenters, plumbers, electricians, roofers (all friends of my SO). So them being "manly" is rather par for the course. Most of them play soccer in their spare time, too.

I notice this too. The more rural the environment, the more testosterone is in the air. I've always lived in the city and over the years I see a scarcity developing of "man's men".

Talking to my younger cousin, things are only getting worse. In his class boys are not permitted to make fun of girls, but girls can say whatever they want, even rolling up to class with "Boys drool, girls rule" t-shirt. How is this promoting equality?

It just seems to me like feminism has snowballed into some kind of twisted affirmative action where women are given special treatment and boys are encouraged to be sympathetic, sensitive wusses, all in the name of political correctness.

For more insight on the subject, check out Bill Maher's take:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z8j4QJ0oiY

(^^NSFW: Some course language is used)

Reading through this thread I see I am not alone in my observations. So to those of you who notice this disturbing trend, how do you propose we deal with it? Do we just let society swing from one extreme to another till it magically balances out? Or is there something that we as a community can do to promote real equality?

This is something I have yet to figure out..

How far can you carry 125 pounds? That's not me in the bath.

I've never tried carrying someone cross-continent. I doubt I'd get far. I'm in California...You'll have to take a plane.

Men are becoming metrosexual nowadays, it's the new in thing, personally I have felt a bit feminine, that's why I shaved my legs at 7, painted my nails at 12, eyeliner at 13, dresses at 15. Being semi-masculine and semi-feminine has helped me become a modern man and appreciate life more. There's something iconic about seeing Richy James Edward's crossing dressing.

I grew up in New York and there was no shortage of rough and rugged kind of men but as the city has become more gentrified the yuppies are moving and bringing their soft ways with them.

I'm not attracted to women who behave like yobbish men. A woman who drinks a can of root beer and then crushes the can in her bare hands and then orders you to get ready for some funky chunky munk in the bedroom is soooo unappealing.

As tyler durden so eloquently stated:

"We're a generation of men raised by women"

Fingz, many guys would love to be masculine. The problem is, some of us don't know how. We never had a strong male role model in our lives, to guide us and impression our young minds.

This puts the burden on us to become men through our own action. We must help each other become men, for ourselves and for women who complain that there are no real men anymore, that talking to their man is like talking to a woman. Women need men, and men need women.

Men are becoming metrosexual nowadays, it's the new in thing, personally I have felt a bit feminine, that's why I shaved my legs at 7, painted my nails at 12, eyeliner at 13, dresses at 15. Being semi-masculine and semi-feminine has helped me become a modern man and appreciate life more. There's something iconic about seeing Richy James Edward's crossing dressing.

WTF? Is this the kind of male who is offering dating advice on here? The new "in thing" is for a man to be a woman?

WTF? Is this the kind of male who is offering dating advice on here? The new "in thing" is for a man to be a woman?

It's hardly being a woman is it? If you have read my other posts on the subject matter, you'd realise I am also masculine, too. The fact of the matter is I look back at those so called "real men" and whilst they have admirable traits, they aren't half backward in terms of thinking. My father is a proper man's man, masculine and as straight as can be and let me tell you something, I'm so glad I was raised by my mother, because I'd hate to be like him.

Masculinity exists in all men but differ in terms of strength, but a lot of men realise to be successful in society you can't go around like a knuckle dragging caveman demanding that woman give you a son and remain in the kitchen. At times, I can display high amounts of masculinity and at other times I can display a high level of femininity, what's your problem with this exactly?

Also, if you read the ages next to things I have done, you'll realise that most teenagers do this at some point or another and most teenager's choose to experiment with a number of different things e.g. music, drugs, sex, you are ultimately naive, carefree and stupid when you are a teenager; you're ultimately impressionable.

I don't wear dresses anymore, I wear the occasional eye liner and nail polish, but I don't shave my hairy legs, because I likes them. A perfect example of the new, modern man would be Russell Brand, he wears women's jeans and eyeliner - yet he goes to West Ham United every weekend to watch football in a highly masculine stadium surrounded by men's men, cockmen and beasts of men.

As much as I hate country....I just heard a brad paisley song that reminded me of this...its hilarious.

When you see a deer you see Bambi

And I see antlers up on the wall

When you see a lake you think picnics

And I see a large mouth up under that log

You're probably thinking that you're gonna change me

In some ways well maybe you might

Scrub me down, dress me up aww but no matter what

Remember, I'm still a guy

When you see a priceless French painting

I see a drunk, naked girl

You think that ridin' a wild bull sounds crazy

And I'd like to give it a whirl

Well love makes a man do some things he ain't proud of

And in a weak moment I might walk your sissy dog, hold your purse at the mall

But remember, I'm still a guy

And I'll pour out my heart

Hold your hand in the car

Write a love song that makes you cry

Then turn right around knock some jerk to the ground

'Cause he copped a feel as you walked by

I can hear you now talkin' to your friends

Saying, "Yeah girls he's come a long way"

From draggin' his knuckles and carryin' a club

And buildin' a fire in a cave

But when you say a backrub means only a backrub

Then you swat my hand when I try

Well now, what can I say at the end of the day

Honey, I'm still a guy

And I'll pour out my heart

Hold your hand in the car

Write a love song that makes you cry

Then turn right around knock some jerk to the ground

'Cause he copped a feel as you walked by

These days there's dudes gettin' facials

Manicured, waxed and botoxed

With deep spray-on tans and creamy lotiony hands

You can't grip a tacklebox

Yeah ith all of these men linin' up to get neutered

It's hip now to be feminized

I don't highlight my hair

I've still got a pair

Yeah honey, I'm still a guy

Oh my eyebrows ain't plucked

There's a gun in my truck

Oh thank God, I'm still a guy

In response to the OP, yes and no.

On one hand males (not to be confused with men) are far too feminine these days, these guys aren't being themselves. Some males think it's cool or 'in' to spout their emotions or be in touch with their feminine side.

However, women in general will always be attracted to masculine characteristics. Strength (both physical and mental), leadership skills, standing by their beliefs etc. Think James Bond.

In response to the OP, yes and no.

 

On one hand males (not to be confused with men) are far too feminine these days, these guys aren't being themselves. Some males think it's cool or 'in' to spout their emotions or be in touch with their feminine side.

 

However, women in general will always be attracted to masculine characteristics. Strength (both physical and mental), leadership skills, standing by their beliefs etc. Think James Bond.

How about no, some of us are just that way, if you are too narrow minded to understand the concept of something being genuine then that's your problem and you need to get over it. Some do it for attention, some do it because it's a so called trend and some men are naturally feminine - each person is different in their own ways and means.

Again you are stereotyping, some women love James Bond type men and some women do not, some women prefer the Kurt Cobain's of this world and some don't. Some prefer the Mick Jagger's, some prefer the 50 Cent's, some prefer the Ian Curtis' of this world and some women are lesbian and like none of the above.

There's a section of "real men" who are so homophobic and backward in their general outlook on life that it makes me glad that I'm intelligent enough not to be one of them. I'm also comfortable with my sexuality and who am I and I can tell you one thing for sure, I'm hardly feminine in the bedroom department, (I have validation from a reliable source) so what I lack in appearance and upper body strength, I make up for elsewhere, and that includes skateboarding, snowboarding and playing field sports.

I wouldn't expect you to understand, you clearly ooze masculinity from every pour.

Covonia, while I generally agree with your assertions, though I haven't tried shaving my legs or wearing eye liner, I do see, in my half century here, validity to the opinion of mr_elor regarding what women are generally attracted to.

The conundrum for me, in my marriage, is that my wife can't stand a lot of those stereotypical "masculine" features that many women deride, but, yet, she criticizes me for not being more "masculine". It's like she (I won't say she's representative of women in general) wants to pick and choose which characteristics I should have.

Well, the "masculine" side of me says bollocks to that

But, yeah, I found, over the years, that, even as an intelligent, stable, modestly successful and average looking guy, women just weren't that attracted. I was sending out the wrong signals. That's my responsibility. Life experience has taught me how to take my differences and make them into strengths that women do seem to acknowledge now. The more important aspect is that I like the package better too

Maybe that's what I meant upthread by "evolution".

So women are attracted to emotionally distant, knuckle dragging men who like to act macho, drink too much beer, watch too much boxing and football and love a more dominant alpha male who orders her around like a slave "where's my dinner", "where's this and where's that?".

Sounds fantastic, I should try it sometime.

So women are attracted to emotionally distant, knuckle dragging men who like to act macho, drink too much beer, watch too much boxing and football and love a more dominant alpha male who orders her around like a slave "where's my dinner", "where's this and where's that?".

 

Sounds fantastic, I should try it sometime.

No, none of the above. There's a difference between a confident, assertive man and a domineering A-hole.

You just confirmed my observations. This is exactly what I mean about masculinity being "in the doghouse". The first things that come to your mind are all negative and that says a lot about how you view manhood, and yourself.

 

The qualities I think women are most attracted to are:

 

1. Decisive

Nothing is more of a turn off than a guy who's primary vocabulary consists of "I don't know". Women want a man with a plan.

 

2. Persistent

A fella who knows precisely what he wants and transcends all barriers to get it is a prize in this era of timid pseudo-men.

 

3. Rugged

Ladies need to feel protected. This doesn't mean you should be a black belt or bench press 300 lbs. But your presence should command respect and she should feel 100% safe when you are around.

 

4. Stoic

It's good to express your feelings, but there is nothing masculine about an emotional wreck. Women look to us to be their ROCK during times of adversity, which is why we should be in control of our emotions (and not vice versa)

 

5. Logical

Women are often guided by pure emotion, so they benefit greatly from a voice of reason.

 

Of course these are just generalities and a balanced person has both masculine and feminine qualities. My main beef is that society seems to be giving manliness a bad rap.. that really has got to stop!

I was following you up until the stoic and logical part. Sorry to burst your buble, but not all women are often guided by pure emotion, so they benefit greatly from a voice of reason.

I spent a lot of time on ss today and I can tell you, I don't see how guys and girls differ when it comes to making decision: both genders balance logics and emotions.

Besides, 'reason' is a social construct, used by certain groups to delegitimize other groups. It's basic anthropology 101. Since 1946. Date chosen for a reason.

Huh.

Interesting take of the OP.

Maybe my barometer's off....but I still have no trouble finding plenty of men around me (including my husband) who - at least to me - qualify as nothing but "real men" and all that is implied by such. I don't stuggle to find plenty of guys around that have all of the characteristics listed by Flingz, and thensome. (I know some women who have all of those characteristics, too!)

Just my opinion.

Im glad to hear that (and a belated congrats on your wedding)

 

What part of the world do you live in?

Oh, honey!

I'm married almost 14 years!

That's belated, for sure....

I live in the US. Surrounded by some very, very, real, men.

And, despite the fact that I am married (almost happily, again) I still appreciate men for the differences between them and me (female).