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The man did you a favor OP, recognize that.

Well, I used to work with an ex-wife of mine. We saw each other all the time. All I can say is that it’s very hard to pull off and ends badly in most cases. Partners really need to have time away from each other. Also, all sorts of unhealthy dynamics may enter the relationship when partners work together. I always end up dating women who have the same profession as myself, though. Not working together, but being in the same field.

Dating at the early stages can be stressful, absolutely. But personally I am looking for someone things just flow with, which is easy and pleasant and we're largely on the same page apart from some superficial stuff. My friends in happy, solid relationships always tell me thats how they knew their partners were the one for them. The point is if something in the early stages is bringing more stress and questions than ease and flow, I know it's probably not a good fit for me. At this stage I just dont bother pursuing it if it gives me that vibe because a relationship shouldn't be some kind of Rubiks cube you drive yourself mad trying to solve, and certainly shouldn't start out that way. My frustration is that it's very hard to meet someone where there isnt some sort of catch, but I'm coming to accept that's just the nature of it and you only need it to work once. Pursuing things that half-fit because you feel frustrated or running out of time isn't going to work. And philosophising about her reasons for doing what she did won't really achieve anything either. She had her own stuff going on, its not all going to make perfect logical sense.

There are some friends of mine who have achieved enormous success in social spheres, family, relationships, networking, etc, with a cold reading attitude. In fact, after an event, they were always the ones ready to tell "their story"... "their vision" of that event and "their vision of the people" present. They're good at getting you passionate about the story, and they accurately convey the impression they made on people. That's the point. The impression is theirs, but they manage to convey it in a way that everyone agrees with and everyone accept that as an objective POV. If they tell you, "You know, yesterday I was at the party and I met Karen. She's a really lovely, sweet person, very down-to-earth, bla, bla," or when they speak badly of others, "Look, Frank has this attitude. He's always lazy, but you can't understand. Look at how his kids have turned out. She doesn't take care of herself, she even stinks, she won't even wash herself. Her teeth are yellow, and when she comes and goes with me, she always brings a dirty handkerchief. Be careful touching her; she could give you diseases." In short, let's say these people live to cold-read what's happening around them, because they believe that by "distorting" or, better yet, "judging" things around them, with their perspective, they can get others to accept their perspective as well, so they can be in a social position of being seen as leaders, and superior (by giving other validation). What do you think of these attitudes? Personally, these people strike me as manipulative, sociopathic, and narcissistic (this works very well in relationships, too), but I'd like to hear your opinion. A IRL example it's like this: Think about this person having a restaurant dinner with friends. Then they go back in their car after dinner it's over to drive to their home. If they have people with them, they will start this cold reading process, judging the people at the dinner. THey are very good to make everyone agree with their POV. Time after time, event after event, they earn "reputation" in their given circle. Is this insecure people don't notice, but secure people like me do?

Also, she is already 40. Doctor informed me before I did semen analysis that female fertility declines a lot after 35. She doesn’t have money to do IVF, so what she is going to try find a random guy and trap him? Her wanting kids couldn’t be biologically fast forwarded by me. We were trying and having sex for months then the arguments cropped up. One time I didn’t get very errect no idea why and she then asked if I even fancy her. Everything is always my fault! She left me in a hole for the holiday I booked, luckily air b n b have let me cancel it!

Yes, but we didn’t break up because of the marriage/kids thing it is because of the pointless arguments she kept bringing up. Like me saying happy new year at 11.30pm instead of midnight being a huge problem. She also kept saying crudely, what commitment have you shown to me apart from cumming inside me? Like what other commitment am I supposed to show after 8 months? She’s the one who didn’t want to get married but wanted to move into my house and have kids…

But that isn’t why we broke up. We were actively trying for kids from September to like November. I bought her an apple watch just to take her temperature. But then the silly arguments would happen and then obviously sex is the last thing on mind. Her favorite buzz words would be ‘ this isn’t healthy or showing up for me’ like I said the not spending Christmas wiith her even though I did and NY (she was the one away with her family) is the nail in coffin or drum she kept beating. Expensive holiday booked for end of January (which I paid for) doesn’t matter to her, heartfelt and expensive Christmas presents doesn’t matter to her. We literally went to a cinema where you can order gourmet food the day before she went away with her family for NY and then everything was ‘fine’ and then days later it is not normal to say you are upset and don’t feel prioritized because I wished you a happy NY 30 minutes earlier. She is just full of contradictions as when we first started talking about kids, she said to me she doesn’t want IVF as if god doesn’t want her to have kids naturally it is what it is. Then months later, she said to me if we haven’t got pregnant by may 2026 let’s start IVF investigations (which obviously I would have to pay for). The final argument happened on Monday. I hadn’t seen her the whole weekend as she was away or working, we were booked in to see each other on Wednesday but I thought it would be good to catch up before. She got home at 9pm for work. I said my eyes are really sore now and the storm is very bad, is it ok if I see you another day. She got very angry and said my words don’t match my action etc and she’s disappointed and don’t message I want to see her then don’t turn up. I explained that it would be dangerous to drive in that state and if I didn’t want to see her I wouldn’t have brought it up. Next day we start talking on WhatsApp and after a while I could see she was being passive aggressive not outing kisses at end of messages as we usually do or giving me short answers to my questions. I then asked if she is mad at me and she then finally admitted she’s disappointed by me not turning up. I then explain myself again and she was like this isn’t working not sure how this can move forward. So the whole breakdown starting from Xmas wasn’t actually to do with kids.

Hi there! This is for people who have had experience working with their partner, whether for 10 or 20 years, or even more than 50 years, sharing both work and home life, seeing each other almost every day at work and at home. There are many conflicting opinions about whether this kind of situation can damage a relationship or, on the contrary, make it even stronger. It would be really awesome to hear your real, personal experiences.

I understand that it's upsetting, but respectfully, obsessing over her motives isn't going to help you one bit. What's done is done, and fortunately you're able to leave it with your only "loss" being less than a year of relationship time. Imagine if you had actually gotten her pregnant? Then you would be in the same situation as you are now but with 18 years of having to pay child support and possibly co-parenting with a woman whom you're not married to! You were pretty lucky IMO. I know it doesn't feel that way now, but it could have been so much worse.

What do you mean you don't understand? Depressed people (not always) can easily fall into self-loathing and thus not want to be touched. When depressed, it's totally typical for people to NOT want to be social. You don't have energy for being social. You might be confusing feeling a little bummed with being depressed. Depressed people need to get treated. They need support from their family. There is nothing you can do. OK, I think I get it. I have so much experience with depression (both my own and friends and family members) that I forget that many people (especially many young people) may not really understand how devastating and paralyzing depression is. You got to google google severe depression (likely if she had to drop out of school, her depression was severe). It's physiological. It's not just some "mental" thing--though paradoxically the right kind of talk therapy can help (and meds can help). Severe depression undermines the ability to sleep, changes appetite. Makes doing the smallest and dumbest of tasks (let me empty the trash) absolutely overwhelming. You experience increases in stress hormones. You are more susceptible to pain. Depression interferes with recovery from surgery. The person's system is responding to the crisis. You're reacting as if she's just having a bad day. It's way beyond that.

She's not interested and she told you that right away. If someone changes their mind--which almost NEVER happens in a short period of time --they will go out of their way to make their changed feelings 100 percent obvious to the point where being drunk and intoxicated and sleep deprived will not prevent you from getting the message. Just because she's polite to you and is kind and warm doesn't mean she wants romance. Move on.

It's not so much that for me. I do despise guys who hang around women with boyfriends like a bad smell though. I remember my ex introduced me to one of her "best friends" and he was very nice to my face although you could tell there was a bitter undertone. A few weeks later she told me he had confessed his love to her and asked her to leave me for him haha. When both parties are single I feel like its usually just a case of low self-esteem. I don't think a guy who values his own time is becoming BFFs with a girl whos not romantically interested in the hopes she'll do a 180 and realise how wonderful he is. Ironically it's this quality in itself that's probably a large part of why she doesn't see him as boyfriend material, and with good reason. Usually these guys are incredibly clingy suffocating boyfriends given how much they've put her on a pedestal, she can basically do no wrong in their eyes but there will always be the fear of her leaving since she wasn't that interested at first. OP, it comes down to treating yourself well at the end of the day. Walking away for the sake of your own peace is being nice to yourself, hanging around and becoming a "pick me" orbiter is not and will only bring stress and disappointment.

I agree. The narrative is “This prey is too large and too strong for me, I can’t fight it one on one in a fair, noble battle, so I’ll resort to dishonorable tricks to capture it”. It’s really about viewing the woman as an object that you can “obtain” in various ways. Which means that “friendzone mentality” fundamentally disrespects the woman’s will, disregards the fact there is no consent on her side. Basically, the woman says “no”, but the man says, “that’s not a real no, she actually does like me, she just needs time, she needs to see what a nice guy I am, let’s just try another, longer, sneakier way into her pants and her heart”.

She started those arguments because she was unhappy in the relationship. She wanted kids ASAP and didn’t care for marriage. You wanted marriage and didn’t want to have kids ASAP. For both of you, these incompatible goals became a deal breaker, so you broke up. There is nothing left to obsess over. There is no mystery. She’s 40, she was in a hurry to have kids, you weren’t. Nobody is wrong here, it’s just incompatibility. A normal thing that happens all the time. Move on and try not to overthink simple things.

Don't know if this would qualify, but one time, I had a woman who I was very invested in getting into a relationship with. Now, even though this was, come this September 2026, 4 years ago (as I'm this, January 2026), she and I were basically at the height of our interest in one and other. I'll get back to that later. For some context, I met this woman back in 2021 at a ballroom, as I was beginning to take my first steps into what was going to become my ballroom competition journey (been competing since 2022). Now, to be honest, she's 9 years older than I am, had been divorced, and a (young) grandmother. So I was 35 y/o and she was 44 y/o, and she had some baggage, but she was always very nice to me and had shown interest. Truth be told, at the time, I was kind of going through a withdraw from the dating scene because, the year before, I was seeing someone, thought it was going somewhere (as well as that woman's sister and brother in-law), and, out of the blue, she backed out claiming it wouldn't work. No reason nor any explanation, when there was nothing wrong. Then tried to get involved with a different woman only to find out she had a boyfriend that no one knew about. Needless to say, I was pretty down and was getting tired of this happening (there were other women in the past that also led up to this). So I was going to hang it up and say goodbye to dating and even trying to get into a relationship forever. Then this woman comes along and, more or less, dragged back into it. I resisted at first, but as time moved on and I got to know her story, I started to like her. She is a good looking woman and keeps herself in great shape, but more importantly a, seemingly, nice and cool person. We began to become friends, and around that time, the ballroom itself was gearing up to do a dance competition. At that time (in 2021), I was mainly doing it for the social because my goal, during that year, was to make new friends, which I did and still have contact with today. This woman asked if I was going to compete and was encouraging me to consider it, as well as a studio showcase. I didn't jump on the ideas, until my instructors, who later became my close friends, encouraged me to do it, as well as some of the other students. After the boost of confidence, I decided to pull the trigger on it and do them. Today, although at a different studio but takes it far more serious (long story on the move), I'm continuing to do it while learning new styles. I can actually first attribute that to this woman, so, in a way, thanks to her, she gave me the confidence needed to pursue this. Anyway, I thought I'd try to go out with her on a few occasions to try and go out with her, but it didn't happen, until Summer 2022. It was an interesting time, too, because, one, she was fairly flakey, two, I was beginning to lose interest, and three, other guys were chasing her, including a friend of mine (I'll get back to that later). Towards the end of the season, however, we finally went out on a date, after so long. We had a great time, too, and I actually thought something was going to come out of it... until a realization snuck up. Something I didn't know before 2022 was before her marriage, there was another man that she use to be engaged to, who stuck around because they had a child together, who would later grow up and give her grandchildren. She wasn't romantically involved with him, at the time, but the daughter was insistent for her to have another go with him. And there was no doubt he wanted to start something back up, but this woman was not interested in sparking that old flame again. When I met him, he seemed like a decent enough guy, until it was known I was taking this woman out and, all of the sudden, he started treating me differently. Ignored me, didn't look at me, erratic, just different. After this woman went out with me, it then increased, even to the point where he was talking about me behind my back. During that Summer, there were other men actively pursuing her as well. One of which was a friend of mine. He was constantly trying to go out with her because they're closer in age. She just wanted nothing from him other than friendship, but he persisted, not taking the hint. The night of our date, we ran into my friend and he looked a little crushed because he kept asking her out and I asked her out once that Summer and she went. He then started talking down about her about a few days later, whereas, before, he sung her praises. At this point, it was becoming too much with the amount of guys coming after her, and if a friend in on it, I personally didn't want to risk ending a friendship over a woman. When September came, we got together for a night out with friends. That's when I found out about the ex-fiance having a beef with me, other guys talking to her, and my friend still tagging along wherever we went. I couldn't do it anymore, so I gave up on her. She didn't seem too distressed, even after she was figuring out I wasn't pursuing her anymore, so a little more reason to believe that I was probably more a friend to her than anything. Months later, a guy she was talking to, they both got engaged and moved out of state. They ultimately didn't get married, I found out a few months ago, and, currently seeing no one, as far as I know. We're still friends, but I keep my distance. My friend, although he doesn't say it nor would admit to it if I called him out on it, is trying to start something with her again, now that he knows she's (supposedly) single because he still messages her quite a bit and tells me that. Since that time, though, there was another woman I was trying to make it work with but didn't happen, so I'm now in that spot where I may just remain single because, despite what improvements I made to myself physically, financially, and socially (especially within the dance community and it's affect on me outside of it, with others not in it loving the videos I post and wanting me to teach them how to do it), I may not be cut out to be with anyone that I like, right now. Doesn't mean there haven't been women I've considered, but due to past experiences, there isn't anything that would point to these ladies being interested. And it certainly doesn't mean there haven't been any women interested in me, but I wasn't in them for reasons. This isn't me trying to gain sympathy, but rather being honest. Life isn't bad at all. This year (2026) I'm getting all, but one, debt settle (by next year, I'll be debt free from my major ones), I'm now beginning to learn newer dance styles and routines (as well as incorporating lifts like what professionals do with their dance partners), in which is encouraging me to build more muscle, lose more fatty weight, and gain more balance through both the gym I go to and yoga classes I'm taking, I'm reconnecting with old friends and making new ones, spending more time with my family, and I've been doing more in general out in the world. At this moment in time, is it even worth me even trying again, is the question. All I can say is probably not, but doesn't mean it's never and I can always keep an eye out. Unless a woman comes along and rocks my world, I just don't see myself with anyone. The real pain, for me (in this instance), is staying while not knowing whether or not if the other person you like, that you're doing things with, is even interested in you. Some days they seem really into you, others not so much, but they make it very convincing that it'll happen if X, Y, and Z happened, just not at that given time. Problem is many times those circumstances never happen. When the truth finally comes out, you're crushed and disappointed. Driven home one night after a woman I really liked said she didn't like me the same way, even though we had done so much in 2 years, and I can't even tell you how much that broken heart for an hour. And if I had stayed in the situation with the woman in this story I told, I don't know how I would have ended up for sure, but if I had to guess, a wrecked friendship with one of my closest friends, warring with an ex-fiance, competing with other guys I never met (but would probably meet eventually), possibly a strained relationship with my studio and non-studio friends, distractions from my dance lessons, and still not able to figure out if I'm her number 1 or not. Leaving, although bummed out for a little while, was a much healthier and wiser decision. When started listening to certain dating podcasts and read up on other people's personal experiences, it became clear to me that being single, in today's dating market, might be a better choice for myself, for now. I don't have that stress of wondering whether or not a woman likes me. Until it's 'yes', it's 'no', and I've been trying to keep simple like that. I'm turning 40 y/o this year (2026), and I don't want to have those worries anymore. I'm done with it. It's either you like me or you don't, and if you did, it's up to me as to whether or not I like you in the same way. Whatever the case, I'm glad I didn't stay with it around that time when I was finding out who was all going after the woman in the story. If you're in that same spot, my advice is to leave. It's not worth the effort to try to convince someone through a song and dance to like you. It simply makes you look foolish. If they like you, it's unnecessary to do something to try and impress them because they already want to be with you so, other than doing some nice deeds for that person to show you care for them and a couple dates, it's unnecessary to put on a show for them. If they don't, just walk away from potential hurt. Up to you if you want to be friends, but that's it. You're not the backup plan nor the rebound, either. There were other details in the story I had not disclosed, but there should have been alarms ringing in myself to stay away. Something a late radio talk show use to say "intelligence guided by experience." Sorry this was long, but I wanted to present as much in context as possible. So hopefully this helps!

So she said "I'm leaving the relationship because I've never said I don't want to marry you" as a break up? That's very odd. To be honest, your approach of taking your time and gauging compatibility for a future wedding is great for if you're dating a woman who's, say 25-33. But as ex is about 40, she simply doesn't have the time to wait for an undisclosed date because of her fading fertility. Are you aware how much fertility is dropping by this age? That's not to say that you should have rushed in and married her.....but rather, if you're going to date a 40yo who wants babies, you need to do things a whole lot quicker. And if your timeline and a woman's fertility aren't a match, you should move on. Your assumption may well be wrong. I've got exactly the same story as your ex and, like her, found that marriage was a piece of paper to get in and a piece of paper to get out. I moved on after that relationship and met my partner and father of our children in 1992 and we are still together. We couldn't agree on what type of wedding to have and it wasn't important to us anyway, plus my country has legal recognition of defacto relationships so we skipped it. Anyone who thinks that I didn't marry because he was the wrong person would be very wrong. Someone can be in love and also start a heap of arguments. It's not may way of doing things because I like a calm relationship....and I would have broken up with your ex just a few months in, but having a fiery temper as well as love are how some people do relationships. I think that a lot of what went wrong here is that the two of you don't understand how each other thinks and then you both go on to make assumptions about the other.

At the time I didn’t read too much into the marriage thing. She would say a lot of different versions, only after a while I understood she didn’t want to get married. We had a phone conversation where I had said can we get married in Nigeria one day (as a joke) and she was like we aren’t the same Christian domination and we need to figure out stuff like moral compass and what each others family are like etc etc, any excuse under the sun. Where having kids applied to that stuff too! She would then confuse me the next time by saying she is against marriage and isn’t saying no. And like I’ve said, I didn’t have a timeline on marriage but I didn’t want to have kids first then marriage. One time she said ‘I’ve had a bad experience with marriage’ I’m upset but it’s on different levels and working for myself it’s a bit of a disaster as I can’t focus atm. I think it’s mostly because of the effort put in, the way it’s ended and what I’ve taken from it. I don’t like surface level things and I’m not looking forward to getting to know people again, trying to suss out their attentions, potentially dealing with past issues. I know any relationship you have to work on but I’m realizing there is a limited window even though there is millions of people in the world. I’m pretty sure her past experiences meant that the likelihood of things working out between us were slim. I’m now obsessing over her motives. I refuse to believe all the arguments she started were for the reasons she said.

Really? You didn't think it was glaringly obvious that you were incompatible when she said she needed to have kids ASAP but wanted to wait before committing to marriage, while you wanted to get married before having kids? It does suck, but it's just life. It happens in all aspects of life to everyone - careers, dreams, relationships, everything. Putting in effort is a requirement for anything worthwhile, but it does not guarantee that you will get what you want. In your case this is apparently your first "actual adult relationship", so it's just really not surprising? Most people don't end up with their first real relationship. It's normal to feel upset over a breakup. Take some time to look after yourself, talk to your friends and your therapist, and you'll recover. And then you'll have the freedom to look for a relationship that fits you.

The reason I’m in the state I’m in right now is I don’t know how to move forward. I didn’t see the incompatibility as she kept insisting she wanted the same things. Then I’ll think to myself, what is the issue? Let’s just focus on that. I would see stuff as misunderstandings so I would try to resolve arguments, but they weren’t. They were just drama. I’m not saying one side or the story to make her look bad, if there was anything I have said/done I would say it. Every argument has been pointless. Even without the arguments, recently she said her aunt said it’s weird I don’t have her on social media (I literally have 5 posts in 10 years, last in 2015). She could have added me anytime. Because she is just so sick, she then suggests it’s something weird or nefarious, when I just don’t use social media. Which I told her from day 1. Anyway, what is stopping me from moving forward is trusting people. This is the second relationship someone has said that they want what I want when they don’t. I’m not someone to push for kids or marriage so when someone says they want these things, I take their word for it and just see how the relationship goes. I’ve now seen it’s a waste of time. Also, I’m tired of people choosing to do stuff like occasionally help tidy, clean or cook and then moan about it later on in the relationship when I never asked. I only want someone to do things they are happy to do! I know for a fact that the nonsense about the festive period isn’t why she started fighting me, when I’d say to her yeah it’s a shame we couldn’t spend NY together, but we have a trip booked end of January which cost me £820 ($1100) she would just dismiss it. I’m now going down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out her behavior/agenda. I’m just all over the place. Starting again in dating is necessary for most people, but I don’t really know what to take from this or how to act anymore. I put my best foot forward and still got nowhere.

I dont know why guys insist on engaging in the "friendzone". It must be this male conquest narrative that there is some magical way to win her over. A friendship should be mutually beneficial and enjoyable. There is no point in one person spending it in agony that the other isn't falling for them, when just disengaging and finding someone who is romantically interested is so much more straightforward and worthwhile.

Oh, so this 'breakup' didn't come voluntarily from you. She's pulling her random drama, and like last time when you said you were done with her, you went running back to her only to hover there for months and complain about her to us. I hope you'll skip the suffering and see the up side of this. If she's making you the bad guy no matter what you do, then you might as well use that your advantage and move yourself FORward instead of continuing to stagnate over this sick person. Let's discuss what you want to move TOWARD.

Okay, and if you believe that, why are you trying to read intent into her equally random blatherings? If you skip the double standard on randomness, you won't resent her for the same lack of intent you claimed for yourself. It doesn't sound that way. You have an agenda, and if she's not interested in meeting it, then you resent her for treating you like a friend. So don't be friends. It's that simple.

Depressed people are not relationship material. No amount of love can cure them. Just the opposite. It positions you as a doormat to be taken for granted, and after that, even if the depression gets treated, they've lost all respect for you for catering to their lack of reciprocation. Pull back, leave her alone, and if she ever heals to a point of reflection and appreciation for you, she knows how to reach you to let you know. Meanwhile, date other people and find someone inspiring who can match your energy.

I don't think her fundamental behavior would be different. She is clearly dishonest, i.e. she tells you what she thinks you want to hear even if it's not true. Secondly, she is dismissive and disrespectful of you: she doesn't seem to actually care what you think or feel. Thirdly, she seems to have difficulty accepting reality when it's at odds with what she wants. I don't think being younger would have changed these things about her.

I understand you are hurting but this woman is not stable enough to be a parent. Imagine a child getting caught up in her many moods, twisted words, and about-faces. You're an adult and you are you left confused and hurting. You'll be ok in time. A child would not be.