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Eh, you're assigning too much importance to some typed words on a screen. I wouldn't read much into men who message you multiple times a day when you aren't in a relationship with them. Some people just really like the attention, but it doesn't necessarily mean anything deeper. Don't lose sight of that. Flip the script here a bit: perhaps you are on your phone too much and have unreasonable expectations of a man who you barely know.

When was your last relationship OP, and how long did it last?

Because without being able to let certain things slide and decide to practice non-judgement and not to take certain things on board, over time you become bitter and twisted and just find more and more evidence to confirm those world views, and any joy gradually fades. As I said before I only say that becuase Ive been there, done that, got the t-shirt. But you can decide for yourself if you think theres some truth in that, or not.

S'all good, this is the afterparty, I signaled I was done two pages ago =)) Anyway, genuinely no hard feelings and thank you for taking the time to offer your perspectives! We disagreed and that's fine! Different strokes for different folks!

You still choose to ignore everything I’m telling you and just keep arguing for pages upon pages about meaningless semantics and totally unrelated heavy stuff. I’m not a girl, but even I feel tired from this. Sorry, man, but I think I’m going to “ghost” you now.

Oh, yep, you've misunderstood my meaning:)) I like big words, they're poignant! :)) And, yes, societal trends are very much tied to what happens randomly at a bar because that's, like, part of society. Genuinely don't see what's so worrying about my messaging, it's a well-known fact that dating has become more and more superficial and that commitment is more and more of a taboo, why would it be unreasonable to assume that a societal trend is somewhat universally applicable? The micro reflects the macro, as the macro reflects the micro. And, this goes waaay offtopic, but... yeah, wouldn't it be nice if we all could die without hating ourselves? I mean, genuinely, what's therapy-worthy with that thought? What's wrong in wanting to be a decent person in what I understand a decent person to be, for myself? Heck, I'd even say that I'm doing a pretty decent job so far, with an acceptable amount of slip-ups! Edit: and, yes, ghosting is a sign of immaturity - I'd sure as heck consider it immature if someone decided to slowly ignore someone's existence just to avoid having to say an uncomfortable truth.

Well, I tried, but she flaked, so...! :)) I've had longer conversations with a random cashier in Germany! :)) No, but I disagree with you in that it'd be as widespread if people actually took some accountability (which, let's be serious, the grand majority are not). I'm not saying a human being can be perfect, but I am convinced that a human being can be SIGNIFICANTLY better than this. What's the point of living, then, if I have to detach my emotions with 3 of every 5 people I meet? :)) And that's where I see the beauty in my set of principles - I do not expect others to follow them, because nobody knows my principles in detail, but they allow me to clearly see when people are being random buttholes for no reason. This has honestly helped me more than it has hindered me.

Calm down. Slowly re-read everything you just wrote. Understand that you literally just confirmed what everyone had told you here: that you overthink things way too much. You’re throwing in big words such as “today’s world”, “immaturity”, and “grotesque”. You talk about hating yourself when you die. This is some serious, heavy stuff. It can’t be possibly applied to your situation, which was just light flirting in a bar, as you readily admit yet for some reason draw some incredibly overwrought conclusions from that. Your insecurity is way too noticeable, and this goes way beyond that one bar incident. Perhaps therapy would be a good move. We aren’t professionals here, we’re just a bunch of people who once came to this forum for advice and now try to give some to others.

I mean on the first point sure but there is a middle ground between opening with a dry "hello" and "go out with me". Getting to the point fairly quickly after waiting for a week is what I think people were getting at. People generally don't work like that. It's a very rigid and "proper" worldview and that's just not how it is. People often behave off impulses and don't even have any idea what they themselves want. They may vocally say they want something and their subconscious drives them to act in a completely different way. Crazy, huh? But accepting that's just the nature of people and detaching your emotions from it is the first step to working well with the world and other people. Flow is how you adapt and end up in the most satisfied states. Hoping everyone else will go by your rigid rulebook is a fast track to misery and frustration.

You did a really stupid thing in that nightclub. If you deliberately touched my partner’s butt like that, I’d probably punch you too. Not to mention that you borderline cheated on your girlfriend. Your girlfriend is understandably mad at you but probably hesitating whether she should break up with you or not. So she channels her anger and frustration into insults. It’s certainly an unpleasant experience for you, but you are the one who messed up. Apologize to her humbly and see whether she is able to forgive you. I can only tell you that if I touched another woman’s butt like that I’d be feeling sorry for that and accept my partner’s justified expression of distaste.

Yep, I genuinely don't see the difference. Maybe because I have more details on that night, like her doing most of the talking, like me prioritising finding my friend and focusing on that, she was basically hitting on the barn door. I started letting my guard down (so to speak) only come morning, when I was already wasted enough to barely remember what happened. And I'm not being poetic about this. Plus I cannot neglect the added detail that several people have reliably told me that she's known to be a flirt. If it were up to me, I wouldn't have reached out at all, and I would have forgotten all about it by next Wednesday, precisely because I don't believe that a woman flirting with me means much of anything in today's world. Sorry, not sorry, them's the societal trends! I'm just playing the game placed in front of me in such a way as to not hate myself when I die! Same for exchanging numbers, exchanging Instas... my Contacts book is a graveyard for unused phone numbers. So, yes, in this context, I'll take it slow, if at all. Because the most plausible possibility, did, indeed, occur, namely that it meant absolutely nothing from the start. And that's fine! The slow-fade-and-ghost indicate immaturity, nothx, doesn't matter anyway because I'm moving on! Actually, bullet dodged, even! And if trying to establish a friendship with a potential romantic partner is off-putting, then consider me downright grotesque!

Dude, nobody is telling to start any acquaintance with a girl by asking her out right away. We are referring to your situation specifically. In your case, the girl flirted with you. She gave you green light. If you then don’t ask her for a date right away and instead send her passive messages, then it’s completely understandable that she’d lose interest. You keep stubbornly repeating that the issue is that you’re somehow less shallow than that girl because you wanted to take it slow or whatever. But in reality, this has nothing to do with being shallow or deep and everything to do with you being insecure and overthinking stuff, which is a turn off. This wasn’t a situation where you had to make some life or death decisions. A girl was flirting with you in a bar and gave you her number. If you liked the girl, you should have made a move instead of waxing poetic about how you two need to “know each other” before you continue for several days straight. It’s off-putting, it sounds like you’re only interested in being buddies with her or string her along. Some women would be downright insulted by that. I believe that @introverted1 here sounded sort of exasperated when she tried to explain that to you. I don’t know why it’s so hard for you to understand.

Ok, this time I think you've misread me, my observation wasn't related to other people judging me, it was related to how absurd it is to judge someone in general based on a 5-minute interaction, which was in reference to what I'd written earlier, that my interaction with her over the past few days was 5 minutes overall. As for the advice, I don't know how one could say I didn't follow advice given here, since it was precisely due to this thread that I decided to reach out to her in the first place. But I cannot follow all of the advice given, because, as stated, I genuinely do not even want to date someone who'd lose any and all interest in me THIS dramatically either because I didn't ask her out within a standard business day, or because I didn't jump straight to dinner plans as a first contact message. Again, the very concept of such a situation is ridiculous to me and would clearly indicate that the person who got bored is 100% not what I want from a partner. Plus, whether plausible or not, it indicates that there wasn't much interest there to begin with. Not really. Maybe self-interest, but that's it.

I wasn't even complaining about it :)) I was gobsmacked by the ridiculousness of the concept that saying "hello" instead of blurting out "let's go on a date" as a first interaction would be enough to neutralise the kind of interest which would lead one to flirt for an entire night. I mean, it was clear since yesterday she didn't have that kind of interest in me. Here's a crazy idea: how 'bout we learn to communicate intent? Kinda' like how people talk and establish that they're down for casual sex, but for flirting, which has just as much potential of ruining someone's day if they weren't in on the joke. Maybe being a bit more considerate and owning our stuff would help.

Ok, I think I’m going to atop giving you advices because you really don’t read what I write to you. I told you multiple times you shouldn’t have waited for a “chance”, the chance you had was to ask her out right after that night at the bar, without exchanging empty messages. You keep ignoring what I say and going in circles. And what’s this talk about judging you? You came here for advice. People gave it to you. You chose to ignore it all and stubbornly and pointlessly kept insisting that you were right. If being right is so important to you, then fine, be right and without a date. Or listen to our advice, learn from your mistakes, and have more success at dating.

Thank you! Yes, I understand exactly what you mean, I can't possibly see the type of interest which would lead to a date as something fleeting enough as to vanish after the first two random text messages, unless, as you've said, they're offensive in any way. That's exactly why I started thinking this was a "soft no" from the first flake. And, yes, agreed on the timeline as well, anything over a week is excessively long, both in reaching out and in replying I'd say. But I still can't possibly conceive how one's opinion could be swayed by a "hello..." Anyway, mini-trauma unlocked. Unfortunately, part of my bandwidth is permanently allocated to being frustrated with human beings, in all ways justifiable. Unfortunate component of my Dramatis Persona, it's a "take it or leave it" thing and I own it.

That's fine, you're perfectly entitled to whatever "method" you want, but then you mustn't complain if it gets you nowhere. I find there is no real point having a "method" other than do what comes naturally to you and use your gut to judge each individual situation. But everyone can do whatever they want. Indeed. But flirting without any real follow up intention happens everywhere all the time. It's often an ego boost and a bit of a thrill. But that doesnt always mean whoever is flirting has any intention of dating or getting physical. Does that feel teasing and frustrating? Yes. But what can you do about it? Nothing. So it's better not to give it any more oxygen even by thinking about it and filing it away as not very fulfilling or worthwhile for you and leave it at that.

It goes to show that people are complex and will approach dating very differently. @Repentant Personally, as a woman, If I were sober and had flirted with you all night, clearly showing interest in you, I would be more curious in our communication- moreso when YOU were sober, regardless wether it was a message sent 1 day or 3 days after the actual incident. Be it with a video, or a "Hey it was nice meeting you". Would I prefer the latter - yes, but a video wouldn't put me off unless it was rude/not funny etc. I don't see pacing interaction or approaching it in a softer way as an issue, unless it's being dragged out for weeks. Seeing it from her POV, perhaps this could be her preferred texting pattern and texting you isn't a priority at the moment. Do what feels right for you, but expect the outcome might result in some people losing interest (appearently:)) It seems like she was being flirty, perhaps she's like that in general, but had no real intention of taking it further. If she did, I don't see why she would be this passive in her communication. I agree, people might be busy, but if people can take their phones to the loo whilst doing their buisness, I'm sure replying to a message wouldn't be too much to ask, hehe.. Take her communication pattern as information and act accordingly. I also agree 100% with @FredEire's last post, though the mental bandwith comes as self reflection here. Not sure OP relates, but i do it to understand myself more in early dating/connections and where I can improve because at the end of the day, we can only change ourselves (unless it goes against our values and character), not others.

Again, it's not about the situation with her, it's about some of the things mentioned in this thread. She's in the past now, that's done and closed as far as I'm concerned (even deleted the Insta account today, as I genuinely have no use for it). And I genuinely wasn't projecting anything, I was stuck between "she's a known flirt, it means nothing" and "but she did flirt with you all night." Which is why I decided to heck with it and posted out for advice and input. As I mentioned from early on, I was leaning toward dropping it and moving on, precisely because I didn't read god knows what into what happened. The specificities of how I choose to go about approaching someone in whom I'm interested are mine and mine alone, and I take full ownership. I have no use for projecting them onto someone else, being cautiously polite regardless is enough of a personal motivation. It may be the suboptimal route, but, more than anything, this thread has kinda' shown me that the "optimal" route is kinda'... mental, to put it politely and as far as I see it. As such, it's plenty clear that I don't want to date the kind of people who believe in the "optimal" route and nothing else, so that's a second win for me. To note, I'm very seldom anxious before asking someone out on a date, because that is uncertainty perpetuated by myself. I can see I am in full control of it, it's all down to a simple question to reach clarity. Anxiety only comes into play when this sort of faffing about and mixing signals starts happening. And, yes, while I can separate and accept that it means nothing, flirting with someone in whom one has no interest is still sending mixed messages. It's like ringing the dinner bell with empty plates.

You’re absolutely right that not knowing is often harder than the truth. Living in uncertainty keeps you stuck, anxious, and constantly second-guessing everything, which is exhausting. When you finally know the truth, even if it hurts, at least you can deal with reality and move forward. The pain of finding out is usually temporary, but the peace of mind that comes from knowing where you stand is lasting. Most people who’ve been through this say they wish they’d found out sooner rather than living in that draining limbo

You’re not being irritable or touchy - you’re responding to repeated dishonesty and boundary violations from someone who has a pattern of lying about his contact with a woman he was once obsessed with. He’s doing exactly what untrustworthy partners do: lying, getting defensive when caught, blaming you for being “touchy,” and refusing transparency because he “doesn’t want a row” - when really he doesn’t want accountability. The fact that he still uses a nickname for her, hides their communication, and has now lied multiple times about messaging her shows he knows this crosses a line and chooses to do it anyway. You’ve been more than reasonable by not demanding he cut contact entirely, just asking for honesty and transparency, and he can’t even give you that basic respect. This isn’t about controlling who he talks to - it’s about him repeatedly lying to your face and then gaslighting you by calling you irritable when you catch him. You have every right to tell him that continued lying about contact with her is a dealbreaker, and if he can’t be transparent about this friendship after 9 years together, he’s choosing her over your relationship and you need to seriously reconsider whether you want to spend more years with someone who lies to avoid conflict instead of being honest with his partner

Your instincts are telling you something important - after 30 years together, you know when something’s off. Your wife is emotionally checked out from your marriage and seems to be avoiding genuine connection with you, deflecting every conversation back to her family and going numb when you try to address the intimacy issues you’re facing. The fact that she spent a month away with barely any contact and can’t engage with you about anything beyond surface-level family updates is a major red flag that she’s either dealing with something she’s not sharing (depression, stress, guilt, resentment) or has mentally/emotionally distanced herself from the marriage. You’ve been patient and communicated your needs clearly, which is exactly what you should be doing, but patience alone won’t fix this if she’s not willing to engage. It’s time for a direct, honest conversation where you tell her that you need couples counseling together because the marriage is in trouble - not as a threat, but as a necessary step to save what you’ve built. If she refuses or continues to shut down, that tells you everything you need to know about whether she’s willing to fight for this relationship, and then you’ll have to decide what you’re willing to accept for the rest of your life

Please reach out for help right now. What you’re feeling is serious, and you deserve support. Call the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline (call or text 988) - they’re available 24/7 and can help you through this moment. You’re dealing with a lot - mental health struggles, career uncertainty, feeling isolated - and these feelings of hopelessness are symptoms of what you’re going through, not the reality of your situation or your future. You’re halfway through a graduate program, which shows incredible strength even when you can’t see it right now. The fact that you’re reaching out, even anonymously online, shows part of you wants help and wants things to get better. Your therapist is right that your mental health struggles shouldn’t define your entire dating life, but more importantly right now, you need support for the immediate crisis you’re in. Please call 988 or go to your nearest emergency room if you’re having thoughts of harming yourself. Your life has value, and there are people who can help you find your way through this dark moment to a place where things feel manageable again.

I think this is a nice sign that she’s getting comfortable around you. The convo was a bit longer than usual, she smiled, and came back to ask you something — that’s not random. It shows she notices you and feels at ease talking to you. That said, it still sits more in the “friendly and familiar” lane than obvious flirting. At the gym, once people recognize a face, they naturally open up a bit more. The smile and small talk are good signs of comfort, not necessarily signals of interest. If it ever turns into her finding reasons to chat longer, asking more personal stuff, or lingering around you, that’s when it starts to look more like flirting. For now, it’s a positive interaction — just don’t overthink it. Let it build naturally and see if the pattern continues

Sure, you're not alone in thinking dating kind of sucks these days and it's pretty difficult if you're looking to actually make a connection. But what I've come to realise is what good is letting it get to you or wasting mental bandwidth on things that never get off the ground going to do you? Nothing.