No Closure...now what?

[Otter2569]

I know you will say suck it up and move on but this was a 16 month relationship, albeit turbulent at times, with a woman that i loved and my kids loved.

 

Today was official break up day. We texted a bit in the morning about how loving and amazing our love was etc then when I went to her house to get my things her daughter came out and said she didnt want to see me?! WTF?

 

I texted her to come down and say goodbye but she didnt and i have not heard a word since. Probably not strange or unique but we had a very intense and intimate relationship and our kids are like best friends.

 

What to do? If anything other than NC and move on!

[mightycpa]

No such thing as closure. Suck it up and move on. The child is probably wounded by you leaving. You can't decide how she's going to feel about it, and more than likely, you're never going to know when she gets over it.

[quattrob]

There's nothing you can do right now, you need to let everything cooldown before thinking about that. Best to not expect anything and not contact her. NC and move on is what you should be doing now.

[kismetkismet]

Honestly I doubt that you have heard the last of her. Not that she will want to get back together or reconcile or anything... It is probably still too fresh and too painful for her to see you right now. When I went to see my ex boyfriend, with whom I had an amicable split, to get my things we ended up talking and crying for 6 hours and then sleeping together/having a sleepover. I think that made it more difficult in the long run. If you ended on good terms it can sometimes be even harder to actually split because you don't have the anger driving you apart.

 

Give her some time. I think she will likely message you to give you a bit more closure at some point, or even ask to see you for a chat/closure.

 

However... i'm saying this based on the assumption that you didn't do anything specifically wrong to cause the breakup. If she feels wronged/angry, it could be a bit different.

[Otter2569]

For weeks...months i had been pulling back and talking seriously about her moods and how she treats me when she is angry. Its like only her feelings matter and I could say nothing because I was always wrong.

 

Last week after another weekly 2 hour blowout and another night on the couch i grabbed a lot of my things and left in the morning. We barely spoke. When we did she attacked me for being on facebook and not responding to her texts...long story short - I was done.

 

She is remarkably loving, thoughtful, sexy and caring as she is moody but I couldnt get past how she dismisses me when shes upset - its rude and disrepectful but she could NEVER see that.

 

Its still very sad...

[quattrob]

Sorry to hear that Otto but if you cannot accept her for the way she is and if she is treating you unfairly and making you feel like crap then she isn't the right person to be with. No healthy and good relationship should ever make one feel bad. It should be about sacrifices and doing your best to please one another and it should most definitely make you both become better and improve as people.

[Otter2569]

Quattrob, you are 100% correct. 80% of the time it was amazing loving supportive fun...she has low self esteem and occasional depression and she can get angry when pissed off so when shes upset its like WWIII and that was the issue. The harder I tried the worse it got and the more she criticised my efforts...almost like it was a game.

 

Non angry / upset the was the most beautiful person in every way. Problem was it happens at least once a week and it was taking me down and making me someone i am not (angry, mean resentful)

[NopeNah]

Sounds a bit like my ex... "when it's her problem(s), it's on you both"..."When it's yours...it's only on you"...She could be the most beautiful/sexy female on the planet,but when life hits she puts it ALL on you. Here's the thing.. That's who/how she is..Accept a life of that..or don't(my choice).. Life's too short to be walking around others who wouldn't do the same for you..Just my opinion.

 

As for the daughter...who knows what she told her? Just leave it.

[jen1447]

She may be deliberately withholding the closure (aka reasons, proper goodbyes, etc.) in order to injure you - sounds like the type. I doubt you've heard or seen the last of her tho so you'll probably end up with some closure one way or another.

[d0nnivain]

Today was official break up day.

 

Last week after another weekly 2 hour blowout and another night on the couch i grabbed a lot of my things and left in the morning. We barely spoke. When we did she attacked me for being on facebook and not responding to her texts...long story short - I was done..

 

Unless you have to go through the legal untangling to get a divorce, your "official break up day" is the day you left, the day you were done. Moving your stuff out after the fact, dotting the i's & crossing the t's to get everything sorted is just that, the details.

 

I'm sorry you didn't get the hug good bye or the last words you wanted & were expecting but I think that particular expectation may have been unreasonable.

 

Closure comes from within. The EX rarely has the words to make it all OK.

 

Find your closure withing yourself. Good luck.

[Satu]

Closure comes from inside.

 

Nobody can give it to you.

[aloneinaz]

For weeks...months i had been pulling back and talking seriously about her moods and how she treats me when she is angry. Its like only her feelings matter and I could say nothing because I was always wrong.

 

Last week after another weekly 2 hour blowout and another night on the couch i grabbed a lot of my things and left in the morning. We barely spoke. When we did she attacked me for being on facebook and not responding to her texts...long story short - I was done.

 

She is remarkably loving, thoughtful, sexy and caring as she is moody but I couldnt get past how she dismisses me when shes upset - its rude and disrepectful but she could NEVER see that.

 

Its still very sad...

 

Ever hear of Borderline Personality Disorder? You should read up on it as she has many of the traits..

 

 

Either way, I know it hurts and you're in pain but you know you're SSOO much better off w/out an emotionally abusive woman in your life.

[Downtown]

I think its a lethal cocktail of insecurity, menopause / hormonal stuff, wanting more out of the relationship, past relationship issues and personality.

Perhaps her behavior is due to all those factors, Otter. Or perhaps it is primarily due to personality. Significantly, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., event-triggered irrational anger, controlling behavior, verbal abuse, irrational jealousy, "volatile," lack of empathy, lack of impulse control, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exGF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it or another PD.

 

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe that -- after dating her for 16 months -- you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as verbal abuse, irrational jealousy, and rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (harshly devaluing you).

 

I could say nothing because I was always wrong.... She tells me I am always blaming her.... [she says] you always have to be right..... she's never good enough

This frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never" is a red flag for black-white thinking, which is one of the hallmarks of having strong BPD traits. Because BPDers are so emotionally immature, they cannot tolerate the experience of having two strong conflicting feelings at the same time. Hence, like young children do, they tend to categorize everyone who comes close to them as "all good" ("with me") or "all bad" ("against me"). In this way, they only have to deal with one intense feeling at a time. The resulting B-W thinking will be evident in the way a BPDer can flip, in only ten seconds, from "splitting you white" to "splitting you black." And, five hours later, she can flip back just a quickly.

 

The sex is pretty dam hot now.... Why are all the hot, fun, single chics also crazy?

Well, if your exGF really does have strong BPD traits, she is not "crazy" or "psychotic" as you sometimes have claimed. But, to answer your question, a female BPDer (person with strong BPD traits) typically has the emotional development of a four year old together with the intelligence, knowledge, and body strength of a full-grown woman. The result is that, when she is in a mood for sex, she likely will exhibit the intensity, impulsiveness, warmth, playfulness, and unmitigated joy that otherwise is usually seen only in young children.

 

When a BPDer is being good, she is very VERY good. And when she is acting bad, she can be absolutely horrid. Not surprisingly, the resulting alternation you will experience between ecstatic highs and painful withdrawal periods can have an addictive quality because, no matter how bad things get, you keep hoping you're only 15 minutes away from a mood flip bringing you the hot, passionate sex.

 

She can turn it on like a hail storm then want to make up. Me, I am in my shell and I am not getting over it so soon.

Likewise, my BPDer exW could quickly erupt into a temper tantrum lasting five hours and then, in a few minutes, flip to a loving mood where she wanted to immediately jump into bed with me. As with you, I was so stunned by the ugliness and outpouring of hatred I had just witnessed that it usually would be several days before I wanted to have sex with her again.

 

The reason for this difference is that, whereas my BPDer exW was always in touch with only one strong feeling (love or hate), I had the emotional maturity to never lose touch with any of the strong mixed feelings in my mind. Hence, while she would perceive me either as black ("all bad") or white ("all good"), I was sufficiently mature to tolerate perceiving her as grey, i.e., as a complete human being consisting of both good and bad traits.

 

Its not a cut and dry situation which is why Iv'e hung on as long as it has but its ruined things for me.

Otter, if she really is a BPDer, it is highly probable she eventually will love bomb you in an attempt to pull you back into this toxic relationship. Because BPDers are unstable and have a weak sense of who they are, they absolutely HATE to be alone. They sorely need someone with a strong personality to provide them with that missing sense of identity.

 

I therefore suggest that, if you ever feel tempted to take your exGF back, you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is that you and your two sons have been dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD warning signs to see if they seem to apply.

 

An easy place to start reading is my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read the more detailed description of them provided at my posts in Rebel's Thread -- where I describe my experiences with my BPDer exW and Rebel describes his exGF's behavior. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your GF's issues. Only a professional can do that. The main reasons for learning these red flags, then -- like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack -- is to help you avoid a very painful situation and help you decide whether there is sufficient reason to spend money to obtain a professional opinion. Take care, Otter.

[Otter2569]

Downtown, thank you for the information. BPD explains a lot in my situation and helps make sense of it all. It was unfounded, irrational and frustrating at times yet I couldn't figure what was happening other than to realize that something was off and I was on the receiving end of a lot of crap.

 

Its rather sad because she had so many positive and beautiful qualities yet can be completely toxic. She also made me feel like it was me and that i was crazy - which of course i knew was wrong.

[mtnbiker3000]

All the ex has the power to do is create more questions and confusion. As another member posted, you give yourself closure. It comes when you take back all of your own power and control. This is done with strict NC and moving on...

[Otter2569]

Mtn, you are right on. I took control by packing my stuff and by leaving. Also by NC - just in order to pick up my stuff. I have to stick with it. Like Jen said it could be a game shes playing too.

 

DT - the biggest issue throughout was her inability to recognize my feelings and opinions during the fights. It was all about how upset she was and every time i tried to interject I was cut down, blamed made to feel bad. Even on the end she said she felt like her feelings didnt matter...

 

She has no friends left and she is an emotional wreck so this will be interesting...but not my problem

[keebee]

Dude, BTDT in a no closure situation, although my RS wasn't as long as yours. It definitely sucks but once you can give yourself closure, it gets much easier.

 

I find it helps to imagine what the relationship would have realistically been like if you'd continued, now that you see how she handles tough situations like wanting to break up. It would have been SUCH a waste of your time to stay with someone who isn't willing to have the tough conversations and be honest about her feelings!

 

You are the one in the better position now. You've been through the worst part, which was the realization that it was over and that you didn't get to say goodbye. From here on out, you heal. But she has to live with how she ended things and what a crappy way out she took, and that's not something that goes away nearly as quickly (I mean, I still have twinges of guilt about guys I treated not-so-great in high school ten years ago!)

[candie13]

it's still fresh. i think... right now you crave contact with her, but what you really should be doing is take care of yourself. Be good to yourself. Cut yourself some slack.

 

Take some time off and try to not overthink it. I think in a couple of days you'll know what you need to do.... me thinks maybe... putting her stuff in some boxes to actually get that closure.

 

it's a bit soon, now, though... just give it time.

[Downtown]

She also made me feel like it was me and that i was crazy.

Otter, if your exGF really does have strong BPD traits as you suspect, "crazy" is pretty much the way you should have felt toward the end of that R/S. Of the 157 disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5), BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be going crazy. This is one reason therapists see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are losing their minds -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

The biggest issue throughout was her inability to recognize my feelings and opinions during the fights.

If she is a BPDer, her inability to regulate her own emotions means that she frequently experiences very intense feelings -- which distort her perceptions of your intentions and motivations. This is why BPD is said to be a "thought distortion." You and I experience these same thought distortions every time we get very angry, elated, or infatuated. That's why we work hard to manage our emotions, so as to keep our mouths shut until we have time to cool down -- and to avoid buying the ring until the R/S has successfully lasted at least two years.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Downtown

[Otter2569]

This BPD really makes sense to me. There is nothing worse that trying to wrap your head around irrational behavior.

 

Yesterday she texted me off and on throughout the day. It started nice and loving then went to her being the victim, how upset she is, all the rotten things I said, how uncaring and hurtful I am. I tried to recognize her feeling and apologize sincerely...this led to more test and more incidents of me being the bad guy. Everything, as usual was about her.

 

I tried not to play in and said "we" a lot when referencing that "we" both said hurtful things, "we" both needed to listen etc but its as if she is a victim and I am a mean jerk.

 

Sadly i am one of the nicest guys and that is why I will put up with some crap but if its a pattern or bad I will leave and not look back.

[Otter2569]

Keebee, thanks! Thats a great point about her never having the nerve for a proper goodbye. I wanted to go out the way I came in and walk away feeling better about a crappy situation...oh well.

[Popsicle]

What to do? Really decide that you're done with her and not just waiting for her to come back, and move on. Once you get to that point you'll know what to do.

[Otter2569]

We recently broke up (my decision) and we had no contact for the first several days.

 

The last few days however she had been texting me a lot and its hard to understand where she is coming from: it’s angry, its sentimental, it’s sad, it’s desperate, it’s angry, blaming, she wants to get back together, she doesn’t want to... you name it.

 

I've been careful how I respond (when I respond): I've apologized (maybe more than i should have), recognized her feelings, was careful to lay out my needs and expectations and even threw out a few olive branches. When it got to be too much I put my foot down. I have offered to be there for her...but I've gotten sick of the circular blaming and "whoa is me"

 

She has suffered from depression in the past and came be prone to mood swings - especially downward. What if anything should I do?

 

For what it’s worth I really loved her and she has few if any friends to talk to.

[organizedchaos]

I think based on how long you've been here you know the answer. Block her number.

[aloneinaz]

Otter,

 

 

Isn't this ex the one who has many Borderline traits? Either way, you KNOW it will not work out with her so stop torturing yourself by continuing to engage with her.

 

 

Prove to yourself that you're not addicted to drama, chaos and emotional turmoil.

 

 

You can do it.