My ex is my best friend and it's eating me up inside [update 2016-06-15]

[sparkle222]

Background: we dated for a year about 2-3 years ago; then I broke up with him. I regretted it (and still am not really sure why I did it, I think it just all seemed a bit overwhelming and he was pretty immature), and he tried to get me back, but at that point we'd moved to different countries and never really worked it out. Looking back on it I was pretty immature too--the fact that he kept chasing me even after I rather abruptly dumped him made me think I could always have him without having to make some really deep commitment. (I wasn't seeing anyone else though.) After some months of effectively long-distance fwb, he started pulling away, and eventually told me he was seeing someone else (which I'd begun to suspect). We remained on pretty bad terms for several months (no longer long-distance, we were at the same university), although at some point his new gf dumped him and eventually we went back to being friendly. Some months ago, we met up and he kept saying how much he liked me and cared for me, and wanted to be with me, but didn't want to commit to a relationship because he couldn't see himself marrying me. (He's said a few times how he could never date me again, although he seems up for a fwb.) I said I didn't want fwb so that's now off the table, and i've stopped seeing him in person so that i'm never tempted. however, we've still remained very close as friends online, which I know is really stupid, but we just connect so well it's hard to get rid of him.

The other day I was getting a bit frustrated by all this--I pointed out how often we talk and how close we are, and therefore the irony that he says i'm the one girl he'd never date; he acted shocked by that and said i was 'way up there' (i assume on some 'list' of girls he would date).

this upset me a lot because he'd spent the past 1.5-2 years telling me he'd never date me again, and it felt like he was messing me around--like he knew i'd date him if he asked, and he holds all the cards. i told him how i felt, and that he shouldn't be expecting anything from me given the way he's acted, and he didn't say anything. we've just avoided this topic ever since

 

part of me is just absolutely terrified that one day he'll stop talking to me and then tell me he's got a new girlfriend, just like a couple years ago. that absolutely devastated me (he kept telling me how much better his new girlfriend was than me, preying on all my insecurities) and i can't deal with that again.

 

i know the main reason he doesn't want to date me is what happened in the past--he says he could never trust me again after i broke up with him. (although tbh, i don't see how him going out with someone else would be that much easier for me to get over.) there are also some other issues at play. he hasn't really figured out what to do with his life and i have, so maybe that annoys him. he says my line of work is not 'valuable/worthy' enough for him (because i work in a finance-related area, and he judges anyone who doesn't plan on saving the world)--although ironically his current line of work doesn't even come close to doing that either. he's highly judgmental of people who aren't 100% devoted to charity work, who aren't vegans, etc, although again, he isn't particularly devoted to any of those causes either. but he wants a girlfriend who is, i think.

 

unfortunately, i know part of the reason i'm holding on to this 'friendship' is that i know a teensy part of me probably wants him to ask me out again. however, i have rationally been telling myself it won't happen for nearly 2 years now and i have gone out with other guys, although nothing's amounted to anything. i really feel i want to be friends with someone before i date them, but since he's basically my best friend, i keep feeling like nobody else lives up to him--even if they probably surpass him in many ways!

 

all my friends say i should just cut off all contact with him, but i hate the idea of losing the friendship i rely on so much (and, if i admit it, the tiny possibility of him getting a reality check, realising what a kind/loyal person and how he's just taken me for granted and how there's no one better blahblah). my parents love him and, from what i can tell, want us to work it out.

 

it's so frustrating, i *know* i'm a great catch--kind, friendly, funny, intelligent, lots of varied interests, pretty, successful--and i find myself bashing my head against a wall as to why my best friend won't move on from the past and feel anything towards me. usually i'd just shrug it off, but the fact that he did like me in the past, and still seemingly cares for me, really bugs me.

 

what do y'all think? is he just being an immature, self-satisfied prat who knows he has me wrapped around his finger and is using me until he finds his next gf? or is he just genuinely confused in his head?

[salparadise]

it's so frustrating, i *know* i'm a great catch--kind, friendly, funny, intelligent, lots of varied interests, pretty, successful--and i find myself bashing my head against a wall as to why my best friend won't move on from the past and feel anything towards me. usually i'd just shrug it off, but the fact that he did like me in the past, and still seemingly cares for me, really bugs me.

 

what do y'all think? is he just being an immature, self-satisfied prat who knows he has me wrapped around his finger and is using me until he finds his next gf? or is he just genuinely confused in his head?

 

It sounds like to me that you're both playing the defensive game so well that neither can score, and the rules are that you have to win by two. It's a perpetual volley.

 

He told you exactly what you need to know- he has you on a pedestal but he can't trust you because you've already demonstrated that you'll break his heart. At the same time, you're holding him at arm's length, playing hard to get, messing with his head and heart, still attached... and giving him the occasional shtupping for good measure. It's a mexican standoff of epic proportions.

 

The reason you aren't a happy couple is that you broke his heart. The reason you haven't moved on is that you're staying in contact and sleeping with him. How hard is that to understand?

 

If you want him you're going to have to pursue and convince him that he can trust you... or at least that you're serious enough that he should take the risk. Otherwise, quit kidding yourself about the "friendship" and cut him loose so you can both get on with your lives and find new partners.

 

If I was a guy interested in you and figured out that you're "best friends" with your ex, still fixated, shtupping him... how interested do you think I'd be in getting mixed up in that mess? Zero.

 

I think the ball's in your court and you need to either make the big play or walk off the court and get on the buss.

[elaine567]

The reason you haven't moved on is that you're staying in contact and sleeping with him. How hard is that to understand?

 

I don't think she is, HE suggested fwb, but she said no.

[salparadise]

"After some months of effectively long-distance fwb, he started pulling away...

I said I didn't want fwb so that's now off the table, and i've stopped seeing him in person so that i'm never tempted. however, we've still remained very close as friends... "

 

She says that she ended the fwb situation, but it's not clear how long it's been or if that's still in play.

[sparkle222]

Thanks for the replies- more helpful than what I normally hear!

 

We originally had a fwb situation after I broke up with him until he started seeing someone else.

 

He suggested fwb some months after his new girlfriend dumped him. I allowed it for a few months then stopped it; so the fwb situation has been over for about 4 months now.

 

I definitely think a lot of the problem is lack of trust but that takes time to rebuild and I don't want to get hurt while I try to rebuild it.. A Mexican standoff is a very apt analogy.

[elaine567]

I think he is keeping you on the back burner as some sort of ego trip perhaps or a habit, or a potential fwb in the future or just as some sort of revenge?? Who knows?

He said he doesn't want a long term relationship with you as he doesn't see himself marrying you. I think you have to take him at his word here.

I do not see this working out well for you, if you stick around.

I also think that getting back with an ex who has access to a perpetual stick to beat you up with (i.e. YOU dumped HIM) is never a great idea either.

 

Being continually "rejected" is never good, it will eventually devastate your self esteem and affect your future relationships.

If he doesn't want to date or have a relationship with you... then move on.

Hanging about the friend zone picking up crumbs rarely works.

[ExpatInItaly]

I don't think you can have it both ways, OP.

 

I believe you can't really be only friends with an ex when you still have feelings for them. Sooner or later he is going to start dating someone and I doubt he will maintain the friendship at that point. You've allowed yourself to become emotionally dependent on him and admit you still have hope.

 

You guys need to decide to either work it out and date again, or go your separate ways, which would include No Contact. Being friends at this point isn't a wise option.

[elaine567]

"After some months of effectively long-distance fwb, he started pulling away...

I said I didn't want fwb so that's now off the table, and i've stopped seeing him in person so that i'm never tempted. however, we've still remained very close as friends... "

 

She says that she ended the fwb situation, but it's not clear how long it's been or if that's still in play.

Sorry, I missed that bit.

[salparadise]

If he doesn't want to date or have a relationship with you... then move on.

 

True. But the way she describes it, it seems like he does want that but he got burned the last time, so he's in self-preservation mode, protecting his heart (completely rational). At the same time she's wishing to rekindle the romance but holding him at arm's length... because he's not pursuing her properly. Neither is willing to say "I want you." His hesitation is valid. If someone dumped me and broke my heart I'd definitely not go back to pursuing. She'd have to come to me, and even then I'd have to convinced that it's not just another setup for the same thing.

 

OP, if you want this guy back you need to go to him with hat in hand and tell him you now realize that dumping him was the worst mistake you've ever made. If he believes that you really mean it perhaps it will work out. However, if you seem tentative about it, or if he thinks you just going to flake out again once he opens up then he'll play it smart and decline.

 

You need to give up the notion that he must pursue you. If you're not willing to take that risk then cut him loose and go no-contact so you can both get clear of it eventually.

[sparkle222]

So what should I do? Just give him an ultimatum- either we decide to try to make it work or that's it, and cut off all contact (block on Facebook etc). ?

 

The thing that makes me nervous is that he's pulled the ultimatum card before (when we were on the rocks and when he started seeing the new girl)- basically commit more to me/do x and y or I'll end it- and it just drove me away, and made it much easier for me to break it off with him. I didn't like being forced into a decision, even if I can understood why he did it. Petty as it sounds I don't want to make it easier for him.

 

elaine you said he's made it clear he doesn't want to date me because he doesn't see a future of marriage or whatever. The problem is that he's (seemingly) changed his mind on that now. I know that could've just been a moment of weakness but it's just infuriating - I'm not against dating him but I can't wait years for him to (maybe) finally get over the past/realise there's nothing better. At the same time I don't want to say something rash (eg if you can t commit now that's it, forever) the way he did- ehat if 5 years from now we changed our minds or realised we were meant to be and it was too late ?

 

My parents know him and think he's just immature and that in 5 years or so he'll realise what he's done and regret it.. They've encouraged me to find someone else but they also love him and keep comparing anyone else I meet to him, which isn't particularly helpful.

 

I know a couple of our mutual acquaintances say he won't get over it because I broke his trust/heart , but they also think I've apologised enough to him and that he's treated me really badly ever since he found the new gf and after that ended. They've tried to tell me it's his loss now, which I guess is true.

[salparadise]

So what should I do? Just give him an ultimatum-

 

Don't frame it as an ultimatum. Hat in hand, you made a huge mistake, you're still in love with him and want to be with him... probably forever, if he's willing.

 

You have to make him feel it's safe to open himself up again. When we love someone we give them the power to break our heart. Once a woman breaks a man's heart it a pretty common reaction to build a high wall and harbor some resentment. This is what you have to overcome. To do that you have to show vulnerability first and make him believe he's not being set up for another fall.

 

If he won't go for it, then yes. Cut him off completely.

 

I've said that three times now. Are you reading the posts?

[sparkle222]

Haha didn't see the second post until after I posted. Ok might give it a go.. Although tbh I don't believe he's going to say yes.

[elaine567]

Haha didn't see the second post until after I posted. Ok might give it a go.. Although tbh I don't believe he's going to say yes.

 

Well that is OK as well, it means you can both get on with your lives,

This "will he, won't he?", "What did he mean by that?" "What is he really thinking?", "Is he just immature and horny, or does he love me?" on and on and on, is not good for anybody, it will drive you insane.

 

Once you know, you get on with your lives together or apart.

Courage mon brave

Good luck.

[ty10]

Haha didn't see the second post until after I posted. Ok might give it a go.. Although tbh I don't believe he's going to say yes.

 

 

Sparkle, a little bit of context. How old are you both and do you still leave close to one another? What were the reasons you ended it in the first place?

[sparkle222]

We're early mid 20s (23/24; I'm actually older).

 

Reason for breaking up in the past? Moving long distance (we both studied abroad) was the main reason; stupid arguments over things like what we planned to do with our lives (see earlier post about his do gooder stuff) didn't help. He also thought I was a bit snotty, that I wasn't open enough about our rs (whixh is unfair - neither of us is that demonstrative) - but that all came out later when we fell out properly after he got a new girlfriend.

 

So yeah the main reason isn't "personal" per se but it did drag up an awful lot of problems and meanness to each other

[sparkle222]

Yes we both still live close to each other (within an hour and he's moving to the same city as me for work in a few months).

[Eighty_nine]

I've been there-- but as long as you hold onto this friendship, you'll never be able to move on. It'll be awful and you will grieve but letting him go is what's best for you.

[sparkle222]

Yeah it's so frustrating, it's been really over for good for a long time but it just. Won't. End. I really thought by now I'd have found someone else, or at least that we would have drifted out of contact, but neither of those have happened. I don't get why this endless tortured friendship doesn't seem to bother him! My theory is that he thinks he holds all the cards - he knows he could ask me out if he wanted to and holds that over me.

 

He doesn't have any other girl in his life, he's basically just faffing around, I don't really get where he thinks he gets the licence to treat me like his clingy back burner option

 

I'm so nervous that one day he'll just announce he's met a new girl and cut off all contact that I feel I have to beat him to the punch- basically be honest (although it's a bit demeaning giving him that power) and if he can't give me any hope then really cut him off. I'm so tired of feeling like an option to him; maybe he'll realise how much he's taken me for granted if he can't see or hear from me anymore.

 

It does suck feeling constantly rejected but what's worse is the reason why- most guys just think I'm a bit boring or intimidating - but he actually thinks I'm not a good enough person for him (because I broke up with him once, and because I work in the corporate world and not the charity sector). Of course no need to mention the fact he once tried to date both me and his new girlfriend at the same time, (apparently he "couldn't decide"), and the fact that he too works in the corporate sector. He's so self satisfied it's ridiculous.

[ExpatInItaly]

A couple of thoughts:

 

First, you know he looks down on you. Would you not prefer a partner who values you as an equal?

 

Second, he can't treat you as a back-burner option if you don't allow him to. You stopped the FWB arrangement, which was a smart move. Now you need to go a step further. As the others have said, you can't continue this power struggle with him. It's futile and will make you crazy. Explain how you're feeling, that you realize you made a mistake letting him go. Offer him a sincere apology for the hurt you caused him and tell him clearly you would love another chance to date him. You will then at least have your answer.

 

If he agrees and wants to try again, great. If not, you need to start detaching immediately. You haven't been able to move on yet because you haven't detached. Don't bother waiting and hoping he'll mature in 5 years or whatever. Do you feel he is the best you can do? There is a very high probability you will have moved on by that point anyway.

 

If you choose instead to continue this friendship the way it is now, your worst fears will almost certainly come true. He will find another girl and you will be left wondering what more you could have done.

[sparkle222]

I know he looks 'down' on me, but I guess I just don't take it seriously because it seems largely due to insecurity now..he didn't use to be that way.

 

I planned to meet him for coffee over the weekend and talk to him but unfortunately he flaked last-minute (for a semi-legitimate reason) so now I have to wait at least another week (I want to do it in person). I tried to bring it up over Skype but it just felt so awkward after so many months of pushing him away to admit over a video chat 'oh I still have feelings for you and want to date you and promise never to break up with you again'. Not sure how I'm going to manage that in person but I was thinking at least we could have a heart-to-heart about our lives, goals, etc and then maybe broach the subject.. I did tell him how much he meant to me and that (for the umpteenth time) I really wanted to make amends for the past.

 

On Skype though he did mention a few things that really bugged me. He says part of the reason he doesn't always treat me well is that he's been having bad mental health and some depression recently (which he didn't have at all when we were going out). He also has no clue what path to pursue in life--he has plenty of options, but just shoots them down whenever I mention them, and kept (half-) joking about how he just wants not to have a real job, to be an activist, to lead the chill life, etc. Idk I just don't get it. I feel like this on-set depression is a bit of an excuse --I know depression isn't rational but I can't see what's so bad in his life-- and I find his apathy towards his future a bit frustrating and self-indulgent (most people don't have the luxury to faff around the way he does).

 

One of our mutual friends has been kind of hitting on me recently, and my ex saw some of our Facebook exchanges and messaged me saying 'awww you and that guy are so cute'. Which I also find annoying--why does this ex think he's so high and mighty? Surely he must find it unpleasant--I don't think i'd be happy if my ex started seeing one of our mutual friends.

 

I still feel really guilty about messing things up with the ex, and I think maybe that's why I still want to fix things between us, even if maybe he's fundamentally changed for the worse since our time together. Rationally I know he's treated me pretty badly; today i was thinking back to our breakup, the months when he was dating someone else, the time after when he wanted fwb etc and I felt disgusted and angry at him and what he said/did. I've also apologised a lot more for my actions than he ever did for his, and I'm actually willing to move on.

 

We clicked so well as a couple, it really was one of those embarrassingly cute couple things, and it just upsets me that we can't seem to fix it--it's not like either of us has moved on. I feel like my ex just enjoys wallowing in the misery and hope of finding someone different but it's making us both miserable. I just don't understand why he wants to drag out this awful limbo; and why he won't move on from the past (tbf I haven't asked him properly yet, but I'm pretty sure he won't say yes).

 

Do you think this is all even really about me that much? or do you think depression/life uncertainty/etc are causing him to get 'stuck' in the past and bad emotions? Or are these just excuses for the fact that, for whatever reason (likely that I don't live up to his ideal of the perfectly homey charitable cool hippie woman), he doesn't care about me anymore?

[sparkle222]

Well so eventually we met up and here's what happened. He said he really wanted to spend some time with me, etc etc, seemed much more excited than usual. I said I did want to have a proper talk. We had dinner and then sat down to talk. He explained that he's been feeling really stuck because his professional life isn't going anywhere (yet) and that it leads his mind to wander in not-great places. He then said he's also been feeling unhappy because neither of the relationships he's been (me and the girl after me) in have ended well, so he feels he can't really trust anyone; moreover, he's worried that he himself isn't very good at relationships because in both cases he ended up hurting the girl, and so doesn't really trust himself to be in one either. He also talked a lot about regret (a lot of our couple friends have just broken up, out of wear-and-tear/grass is greener/job uncertainty/etc--typical early 20s stuff--and he said how he's sure they'll regret that in a few years when they realise, as he has, how hard it is to find someone with whom you click well.) And then he got quite emotional and one thing led to another etc. (sigh). He was very emotional and warm although when he realised he had to leave he suddenly went cold.

 

I didn't want to talk about it afterwards because I didn't want him to say something insulting and personal (which he did last time this happened--that he'd never date me because I'm annoying). After he left I gathered my thoughts and sent him a message saying that if this was going to keep happening every time we saw each other we would need some ground rules (in particular, exclusivity--if he wants to see someone else, fine, but not while he's messing around with me). TBH I did not think that was such a 'big deal'--he's hardly the time to mess around with multiple people, and I wasn't asking for a relationship, simply that we treat each other decently (even fwb tend to be mostly exclusive?!). He responded saying that any form of exclusivity is a commitment, and he's not looking for commitment with anyone, so we should go back to purely platonic friends.

 

I was livid when I saw this (because as I said, even fwb are usually pretty exclusive; how could he respect me so little that he couldn't even do that, it's not like there's anyone else in his life, etc etc etc). I've calmed down now, realising that he probably didn't mean it so personally. He claimed he'd never intended for anything to happen but that he was 'overcome'. Yeah right.. I'm sure the possibility that stuff might happen between us never once crossed his mind when he asked if I wanted to get dinner and if he could spend the night at mine because he had no where else to go..(I live in a major city with plenty of hostels and there are plenty of other people he knows here). My guess is he was starting to worry I'd moved on to someone else, so he came to visit, felt relieved when he realised I hadn't; he then got his emotional/physical ego stroke, and then upped and bounced off.

 

So anyway, it's clear to me now that he isn't committing any time soon, and I'm not waiting around anymore. I feel like I've been constantly making excuses for his emotional instability towards me (his constant refrain that "he cares so much" but "doesn't want a relationship"): that I hurt him in the past, that he's having a hard year, that it would be foolish to cut him off now if 5 years from now when he's matured we realise we're meant to be, etc. Fundamentally no matter how insecure/entitled/fickle he is, if he truly cared about me, he'd want to be with me, regardless of how his professional life is going or how his personal life went in the past. He wouldn't pass up the possibility (and he must know full well that chances are I'll just move on). Am I right?

I just find this so insulting that I want the strength to block him out of my life (which I guess just means block him on Facebook, so I don't start messaging him again and falling back into the friendship trap)..but I'm worried doing that will make it look like he's affected me (which would just give him more power). What should I do?

[Zahara]

I just find this so insulting that I want the strength to block him out of my life (which I guess just means block him on Facebook, so I don't start messaging him again and falling back into the friendship trap)..but I'm worried doing that will make it look like he's affected me (which would just give him more power). What should I do?

 

I can't grasp this concept you have circling in your mind - power. This isn't about power. Self-preservation is power. Power IS you taking the necessary steps to get your life in control.

 

This is an EGO struggle between two immature people playing games and mindfu****. He's been very straightforward with what he wants and if that does not tie in with what you desire, then the mature thing to do is to look inward, realize the steps that you need to take to move forward and do whatever it takes to self-preserve. That is power -- doing what's right for you regardless of what it looks like to someone else - that's empowering. Now, at the expense of getting hurt over and over again just because you want to put up a facade of "power", that's just foolishness.

 

Block him on your phone and all social media. Sever the tie. Cold turkey. NC.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Zahara

[sparkle222]

Thanks zahara. I will do that. But I don't agree with one of your points--I don't think he has been that clear. He said he never wanted to date me a while back, then completely backtracked and said he would. He then repeatedly said he really wanted to spend time with me, then did, (and suggested we meet up again), then made it clear again that any "exclusivity" was out of the question.

 

So yeah, I guess apart from the backtracking, he's been relatively clear that he can't/won't commit, but I think emotionally he's actually been very unclear. If he weren't interested he'd just sod off; he wouldn't tell me all his problems and complain that our relationship isn't deep enough and want to spend the night and tell me how much he cares about me blahblah. I'm not particularly bothered by being single, I know I can eventually find someone good; it's the emotional push and pull/tug of war with him that I've found so upsetting. I've found most guys are pretty black and white; they either want something or they don't at all. I've never met a guy who wants to spend an hour a day pouring out his heart to a girl/snapchatting/messaging a girl whom he's attracted to but stay resolutely 'uncommitted' to anyone.

 

Yeah I used to be pretty similar (unwilling to commit, immature), but I've been ready to commit to SOMETHING with someone good for a long time now and I feel that he's been taking advantage of my willingness to be there for him and I've been naive enough to think it's just a phase etc.

 

Now I feel bad blocking him off Facebook in case it upsets him.. wth is wrong with me. Do I warn him or just block him without any further notice?

[DreamP]

Sounds like a type of negging. He leans on you for emotional support while insulting and playing on your insecurities. Tells you are way up there (on what scale?) while saying he would never date you because you are immature. He wants sex and some emotional comfort when needed without giving you anything. Forget a boyfriend, he isn't even a good friend. Not even a good person. He is a loser who is jealous of your life direction. The only reason you still hang around is that he plays on your insecurities. You don't even realize how demeaning he is to you. Time to cut him out of your life.

[Satu]

You need a new best friend.