coworker

[jjsk]

I recently found out that my wife had been going out on what I'd consider "lunch dates" with a coworker. This went on for over a year but she did not once mentioned his name (I knew the guy from several outings we had with her company).

 

Several times each month they went to relatively upscale restaurants, had lunch, a drink or two, talked (sometimes about very private matters), split the bill and went back to work. "He is a very good friend". As far as I know that was the extent of their relationship. She said nothing more intimate ever happened.

 

She is somewhat defensive about this and thinks I'm being "paranoid" by suspecting an affair. But she was fairly inconsistent with answers to my questions and did not tell me about extent of these meetings until I showed some "evidence" (credit card transactions, emails etc). it was humiliating to ask her to go through her emails (but she did allow me to look at them).

 

I don't feel comfortable about this situation. I suspect there was more going on between them but will never find out. I could be just imagining things. It seems that there is some lost trust between us and I don't know how I can get over this without our over a decade marriage falling apart.

 

I'd love to hear some advice on how to deal with this, what book to read etc. We live in North Carolina, have three kids and have been married for 13 years.

 

tnx

jjsk

[FredJones80]

She is somewhat defensive about this and thinks I'm being "paranoid" by suspecting an affair.

 

Are you a naturally suspicious person?

 

Have you had reason with evidence to suspect her in the past?

 

Have you been cheated on in a previous relationship?

 

I think these are pretty important questions to answer before anyone can guess further.

 

Without answering them, one thing I can say. When your gut tells you something smells fishy.. it usually is fish.

[RightThere]

Tough call.

 

On the one hand, going out with a co-worker for lunch is pretty normal. And talking about "private matters" is what friends do. Have a drink, split the bill, is all pretty normal stuff.

 

I would question what makes you uneasy about it. Did she try to hide from you the fact they were going out for lunch? Do they communicate a lot outside of work (texts, emails)? Are there other issues in your relationship with your wife (fighting, intimacy)?

 

It's always good to go with your gut. And if you think something isn't right, trust you gut.

 

But don't let it blind you to other things in your relationship with your wife. If you guys have "rough patches" then that in combination with the lunches might be cause for concern.

[2sunny]

It's that she kept it a secret that's making it suspicious.

 

And talking about private matters does cross my boundary of my expectations in a personal relationship.

 

If you think it's not right - then it's not right.

 

What is your spouse planning to do to repair the damage that was caused?

 

When there's nothing to hide = people don't hide things.

 

You can find out = schedule a polygraph.

[jjsk]

Are you a naturally suspicious person?

 

Have you had reason with evidence to suspect her in the past?

 

Have you been cheated on in a previous relationship?

 

I think these are pretty important questions to answer before anyone can guess further.

 

Without answering them, one thing I can say. When your gut tells you something smells fishy.. it usually is fish.

 

A few years ago she showed some "affection" to this guy, even in front of me and his wife. She didn't think it was anything, or she said she would not do it publicly. Back then she also relayed some of their private conversations to me. I felt uncomfortable and asked her to stop having these personal meetings with him and she agreed.

 

but now she resumed without telling me. she said she was just afraid i will get mad, but there was nothing to it. I do over react to things. I'm not aware of anything else out of the ordinary during our marriage.

[2sunny]

A few years ago she showed some "affection" to this guy, even in front of me and his wife. She didn't think it was anything, or she said she would not do it publicly. Back then she also relayed some of their private conversations to me. I felt uncomfortable and asked her to stop having these personal meetings with him and she agreed.

 

but now she resumed without telling me. she said she was just afraid i will get mad, but there was nothing to it. I do over react to things. I'm not aware of anything else out of the ordinary during our marriage.

 

So she purposely continued when she said she wouldn't? Then lied about it by keeping it a secret?

 

That isn't looking good for your marriage.

 

Apparently he has more importance than you do. She's purposely betrayed you again!

 

I would not be okay with that.

 

Re read your evidence- it's been going on a long time.

[jjsk]

You can find out = schedule a polygraph.

 

I think this will destroy our marriage regardless of outcome.

 

If she passes the test how we will get over the fact that I did not trust her word? I want to try to save the relationship.

[d0nnivain]

I have lunch with all sorts of people all the time in various settings. I rarely tell my husband every time I have lunch with a man, even if the guy pays the check. (Many people in my field have bigger expense accounts then I do -lol)

 

 

I'm actually going to a business event tonight as someone's "date". DH knows all about it. They guy bought the tickets a while back & has to go because he's the event organizer but his wife left him a few weeks ago. The ticket was expensive & he said he'd rather somebody ate the food. I wanted to go to the event & would have bought my own ticket but by the time my schedule cleared out they were sold out.

 

 

Talk to your wife. Let her in & show her your vulnerability & work through it together. Consuming food in a public place even if one side is pouring their heart out does not automatically make it an affair.

[2sunny]

I think this will destroy our marriage regardless of outcome.

 

If she passes the test how we will get over the fact that I did not trust her word? I want to try to save the relationship.

 

It will destroy it? It is her who kept it a secret after you expressed your feelings.

 

So what SHE has done has destroyed it.

 

If she passes - then she will understand you need her to get honest in the future.

 

Without her being honest - there's no foundation for the M anyway.

 

She did it - knowing it would hurt you. That's hers to own and repair.

[2sunny]

I have lunch with all sorts of people all the time in various settings. I rarely tell my husband every time I have lunch with a man, even if the guy pays the check. (Many people in my field have bigger expense accounts then I do -lol)

 

 

I'm actually going to a business event tonight as someone's "date". DH knows all about it. They guy bought the tickets a while back & has to go because he's the event organizer but his wife left him a few weeks ago. The ticket was expensive & he said he'd rather somebody ate the food. I wanted to go to the event & would have bought my own ticket but by the time my schedule cleared out they were sold out.

 

 

Talk to your wife. Let her in & show her your vulnerability & work through it together. Consuming food in a public place even if one side is pouring their heart out does not automatically make it an affair.

 

Yes, but you don't seem to be sneaky and secretive about your get togethers. Big difference.

[M30USA]

If she goes in a group to lunch with coworkers and this guy just happens to be there, that's one thing. But just her and this guy? Honestly man, I don't care what culture or background you're from, that just is playing with fire and any woman who wants to preserve her marriage wouldn't be playing with fire.

[d0nnivain]

I agree sneaky & secretive is a problem. Lunch in an of itself could be no big deal.

 

 

What if anything did you find when you went through the e-mail? If everything was otherwise above board, it may be that it is all fine & her defensiveness was born out of hurt that you questioned her.

 

 

My husband had a professional relationship with a woman he works with shortly after we were married. She was part of a team he was with when they were all sent out of town for training. Although she was making it abundantly clear to me that there was nothing going on, he was fawning over her too much for my tastes & we got in a big fight about it. When we finally were able to hash it out calmly he said that my lack of trust hurt & that's why he lashed out. When I pointed out the behaviors I didn't like -- which he though was simple chivalry -- he finally understood why I got so upset. It was our 1st (& only to date) big fight as a married couple. We learned a lot.

 

 

Get her to open up. Maybe all she needs is the assurance that if she mentions him you won't go nuts.

 

 

It took me a while to be OK with the woman in my example above but now I'm actually looking forward to seeing her & her husband at the end of the summer when DH & I are in her city.

[jjsk]

 

What if anything did you find when you went through the e-mail? If everything was otherwise above board, it may be that it is all fine & her defensiveness was born out of hurt that you questioned her.

 

 

she told him the "lunches" have to stop because I was against it. (she did not tell me about this either)

 

- more evidence about the places they went to

- she told him that she would miss lunches

- a sarcastic comment by the guy towards me

- a reply to that remark with a smiley

 

i told her i posted to a "forum" about this but she did not want to see the thread and read comments about her. she knew what people will say. (2sunny - I got your point you don't really need to add more my wife is a better person than you and me probably and not as judgmental )

[d0nnivain]

So she agreed to stop the lunches & told the guy this. The guy doesn't like you (who cares?)

 

So what is the problem? It sounds like she is doing what you wanted.

[FredJones80]

- a reply to that remark with a smiley

 

What was her reply? She should have your back, not his.

[jjsk]

So she agreed to stop the lunches & told the guy this. The guy doesn't like you (who cares?)

 

So what is the problem? It sounds like she is doing what you wanted.

 

yes, she did. I guess she wants to keep the family. But she believes 'white lies' are necessary sometimes. why hurt someone when that person can be better off not knowing?

 

problems

- can't trust her after this and I no idea what she can do to help

- undecided about whether I should call it quits

- I did hurt her because she will now have to think twice about any interaction with anybody, and whether I will judge her again. She can't be just herself anymore.

 

 

What was her reply? She should have your back, not his.

 

seems that they both think I overreacted.

Edited May 14, 2014 by jjsk

[Clay]

Your worried your marriage is over with. You should be it sure sounds like she is only stopping it because you are forcing her. Not because she loves you and wants to be only with you. So know that you know how she really feels about you, you need to stop and start taking care of you. I would schedule a poly and tell her if she has a problem with it she needs to pack up and leave. You need to stand your ground even if she tries to belittle you and say your freaking out for no reason. Tell her she stepped out and wasn't honest in the first place. Its now for her to prove what she says. If she refuses then you have your answer and you can at least leave this marriage knowing you stood up for your morals and beliefs. If you don't show her you wont tolerate this then how do you really expect her to stop doing this?

 

Clay

[FredJones80]

But she believes 'white lies' are necessary sometimes. why hurt someone when that person can be better off not knowing?

 

- I did hurt her because she will now have to think twice about any interaction with anybody, and whether I will judge her again. She can't be just herself anymore.

 

seems that they both think I overreacted.

 

Sorry, I don't have a problem with a male and female having dinner as work buddies, but this happened for over a YEAR and not once did it slip in to conversation with you??

 

Example :-

 

You : Hey honey, what did you have for lunch today?

Her : Oh I just grabbed a sandwich.

 

I bet it NEVER went like this :-

 

You : Hey honey, what did you have for lunch today?

Her : Oh I had a two course meal with Bob from work.

You : Didn't you go for a meal with Bob last week?

Her : Oh yeah, its a regular thing, we do it once a week.

 

Trust your GUT. Sure, you may be over reacting. She may be annoyed. People just don't "not mention" anything when there is nothing to hide. The fact of consciously not mentioning it means there is a reason.

[RightThere]

Trust your GUT. Sure, you may be over reacting. She may be annoyed. People just don't "not mention" anything when there is nothing to hide. The fact of consciously not mentioning it means there is a reason.

 

The more the OP tells the back story, the more I don't like the situation. Totally agree with the above statement.

 

I have and still do go for lunch now and again with opposite sex co-workers. Nothing unusual about it at all. Just being friendly.

 

But the fact that your wife and this other guy talk a lot outside of work, and both play off that you're being silly about their relationship is a big red flag. If either of them were really just friends, they would both agree that if it's making you uncomfortable, then they would respect you and taper it off. The fact that they joke about how silly you are make their relationship seem to be a much bigger deal than they let you believe.

 

They'll miss having lunches together because their relationship was past the "friend" stage.

[2sunny]

You're doesn't respect you - doesn't think first about how her actions affect you/your feelings.

 

There's no judgment in that - just working from her evidence.

 

The fact that she plays coy with the guy at work by continuing to flirt but makes you the bad guy in all this shows how much she disrespects you.

 

 

She's not afraid - and the get togethers will become common again when the dust settles and she will hide it again.

 

What was the interaction they had that you alluded to that concerned you? I think you said it was at a party?

 

Her attitude towards you seem dismissive and just mad she got caught - not sorry she's done this.

 

She still holds all the power - mainly because you haven't laid down enough consequences for her to change. Her communication to him about no more lunches seems to indicate that they will now resort to another plan.

 

She knows you're not leaving. What has changed? I can't see how she feels badly about what she's been doing...she's just sad she can't do it that way in the future.

[jjsk]

They didn't spend time communicating outside of work hours. I'd be willing to forgive all this if I know for sure they did not have sex. Everyone makes mistakes and deserves another chance. We could support the divorce industry and then run into bigger problems in the next relationship. Or we could try to figure this out. Tnx for the different opinions, it helps

Edited May 14, 2014 by jjsk

[2sunny]

They didn't spend time communicating outside of work hours. I'd be willing to forgive all this if I know for sure they did not have sex. Everyone makes mistakes and deserves another chance. We could support the divorce industry and then run into bigger problems in the next relationship. Or we could try to figure this out. Tnx for the different opinions, it helps

 

I'd bet money when you find out they have had sex - you'll move your boundary again.

 

Keep digging for evidence. She isn't trustworthy - so she may have done lots if things "she hasn't told you".

 

You shouldn't have to search for another persons truth - when you have to chase it - you have bigger problems than what you think.

[RightThere]

They didn't spend time communicating outside of work hours. I'd be willing to forgive all this if I know for sure they did not have sex. Everyone makes mistakes and deserves another chance. We could support the divorce industry and then run into bigger problems in the next relationship. Or we could try to figure this out. Tnx for the different opinions, it helps

 

So were the emails just work emails that she was able to show you at home?

 

I think there is a lot of speculation going on, so just focus on the facts.

- She started back up with a guy, didn't tell you because she knew you didn't like it

- They both talk together through email and undermine you with sarcastic comments and don't take your feelings seriously

- Lunches that occur more often than you are comfortable with

 

I don't know why you are the one talking about forgiveness. She thinks she's done nothing wrong. So you offering forgiveness is meaningless to someone who thinks they are totally in the right.

 

You need to trust your gut here. Maybe things aren't as bad as they are playing out in your head, but it's a situation ripe for the opportunity of an affair. Don't kid yourself.

 

Lot's here will tell you to take the hard line approach of kick her out and don't put up with her crap. But if (big if here) their relationship isn't progressed passed a strong emotional affair, you need to wake up and get into some couples counselling. Because your relationship with your wife has nowhere to go but down (and very, very badly).

 

Don't try to fix it on your own (because she's obviously not interested in fixing the relationship. She's working on her other relationship). Get some professional help and bring your wife along.

[jjsk]

yes there is some speculation here and assumptions. but overall yes this is helpful. thanks

 

professional help - I've tried that once for another reason. Seemed like the guy was steering towards pharma (anti-depressants) and separation. he already recommended a particular drug, although he was not a medical doctor. I dumped *him* before he had a chance to plug a divorce lawyer. but that's a different story

[jjsk]

We talked again. She continues to lie about small things. she knows it's wrong. She now deleted all her emails even though I asked her not to do that and she said she wouldn't. still says there was never an affair the way I imagined it.

 

I texted her about my distress, that I can't sleep, focus at work, get simple things done at home. She texted back 'I wish I could help you'. I told her I love her and asked if she loves me. she said that she cares about me. She could not answer even this simple question. I think she has a deep scar from the past and just unable to say the truth.

 

This is not going right. I tried to call some psychologists and schedule an appointment in the middle of the night (silly). Really angry at myself for not recognizing the trouble for so many years.