Anxious from filing & "dark" anniversary

[LostHubby2015]

Hi everyone. I previously posted about how rough my marriage has been and a lot of people (from what i gather men) suggested that i not wait and simply file for divorce given all that has happened between myself and my wife. For anyone who has gone through or is going through a divorce you well know how hard it is. I keep clinging to hope, even though we haven't spoken since Thanksgiving due to her being arrested for Domestic Abuse Assault and a no contact order being issued by the judge. And just so everyone is aware, i'm not pressing charges it's the state since it's assault between husband and wife. So i have no say in it. She has been at home with her parents ever since and had also gone to rehab for her addiction to booze and lorazepam.

 

An an entire whirlwind of crap went down leading up to this and it eventually got got a point where, according to a friend of mine who works with mental health patients, my wife had a mental break. Anywho, in filing i just signed the petition that my attorney sent to me (i have not sent it back yet) but after i signed it i smiled and really did feel a sigh of relief. I feel like, well, a bastard, for even feeling like that. The problem is i really do love my wife and i keep thinking there may be hope for us. Even though as the saying goes "don't look for your happiness in a person that made you lose it." I'm well aware i need to do what's best for me and what not, but i can't help but keep thinking about her and her well-being. I'm really worried that this will devastate her. We both have boundary issues, me worse than her, we both have short tempers, neither of us have the best patience, her worse than me. Just wanted to put that out there.

 

But circling back a little the domestic assault that got her arrested, she was drunk as hell when she did it. And visually it wasn't that bad. She clawed my arm and it was bleeding a little. She also punched me twice that day, but neither hit left a mark as it was the back of my head and in my back. But this was just the first time that things got physical that the police were there. As i had been slapped, kicked in the nuts, my chest clawed to the point it was bleeding (to name a few). I'm not innocent either because in our heated arguments, although i was never physical, i would lose it a little and fight back like a 6 year old and name call and mock and other things one shouldn't do to their spouse, ever.

 

As you're reading this i'm sure you're thinking that it's an unhealthy relationship, i'm seeing the same as i type this. But what i can't help but forget is when things are good. I almost feel like the last.....almost 2 years has been straight out of the Eminem & Rihanna song Love The Way You Lie. In that one lyric of the song "It's so insane cause when it's going good, it's going great. I'm Superman with the wind at his back, she's Lois Lane. But when it's bad it's awful"

 

and then the a little further into the song it goes "Maybe our relationship isn't as crazy as it seems. Maybe that's what happens when a tornado meets a volcano. All I know is I love you too much to walk away though"

 

I put a link to my original post below (hope i did it right). I'm just unsure and was hoping to get some insight/outsider opinions. Thanks for reading.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/612656-16-months-hell

[Zahara]

But what i can't help but forget is when things are good.

 

That's absolutely normal. After the demise of a relationship, we often circle back to good. It's easier. Focusing on the bad forces us to face reality and move towards finality. That's uncomfortable and it certainly brings up denial.

 

She's a grown woman. Her journey towards self-healing is hers and hers alone. You're just as emotionally and mentally damaged as she is after all that has transpired, therefore worrying about her well being is futile and unrealistic, when you yourself need care, nurturing and support. And you do that by focusing on yourself and taking care of you. You can't pour from an empty cup. You are that empty cup.

 

You're making the right decision. People often confuse toxicity for love. Maybe in the beginning of your relationship things were better but it's shifted. Focus on what is happening now because that is your truth. I hope you move on from this. You titled your post - 16 months of hell. Let that be it.

[Marc878]

A sliver of hope doesn't get you much except a longer stay in limbo.

 

You seem to make a lot of excuses for her behavior but there is none. You need to fix yourself. It's sounds a lot more like codependency instead of love.

 

Battered spouses seem to think this will get better but rarely does.

 

Your life is what you make it. Better get started

[BluesPower]

Without a doubt you two are way more codependent than in love at all.

 

Listen, I was married to a woman like this for 26 years. Divorcing her is the best most wonderful gift I have ever given myself.

 

I too was concerned about abandoning her and bla bla bla...

 

Dude, she is a grown woman, and I am here to say that it is just never ever worth it for be with a woman like this, ever.

 

Get away and stay away from her for the rest of your life. You will be much better for it.

 

You need to fix yourself, fix your issues, and try to live a healthy life without her.

[Miss Peach]

I left a marriage like this too. I am so happy I moved on. Many years later he's exactly the same with someone else. I found Lundy Bancroft's book Why Does He Do That helpful to see what was going on.

[Downtown]

Hubby, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., suicide threats, physical violence, verbal abuse, controlling actions, easily triggered temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit strong traits of it. Below, I respond to comments you've made in your two threads.

 

She clawed my arm until it bled and literally punched me twice.... I had been slapped, kicked in the nuts, my chest clawed to the point it was bleeding (to name a few).

The physical abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at 50% of Batterers are BPDers. Similarly, a 2008 study and a 2012 study find a strong association between violence and BPD.

 

She just has so much anger.

"Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger" is one of the nine defining symptoms for BPD. See 9 BPD Traits at NIMH.

 

She started screaming at one point that she was going to "hurt" herself, which she had also done in the past more than once.... she threatened suicide more than once.

"Recurring suicidal behaviors or threats or self-harming behavior, such as cutting" is another one of the nine defining symptoms for BPD.

 

I've asked her to stop drinking for one day for me and she's never been able to do it.

"Impulsive and often dangerous behaviors, such as spending sprees, unsafe sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, and binge eating" is another one of the nine defining traits for BPD.

 

Between the booze and her Rx anxiety meds... she was numbing herself in dealing with reality.

An important issue is whether your W has strong BPD traits (such as lack of impulse control) that are causing her to abuse alcohol and anxiety meds -- or, alternatively, whether it is her addiction to those drugs that is causing her to exhibit strong BPD traits.

 

I already have a 30 something child who can hardly take care of herself right now.

If your W really is a BPDer (i.e., exhibits strong and persistent traits), we are not talking about the level of immaturity seen in a young teen. Rather, we are talking about the emotional development of a young child. BPDers never had the opportunity to learn the emotional skills that the rest of us learned in childhood. This is why a BPDer is unable to regulate her own emotions and is fully dependent on the primitive ego defenses available to young children -- e.g., projection, denial, black-white thinking, temper tantrums, and magical thinking.

 

She's the type of person who is nice to everyone all of the time.

The vast majority of BPDers -- even those exhibiting the full-blown disorder -- are high functioning, which means they generally get along fine with business associates, casual friends, clients, and total strangers. None of those folks is able to trigger a BPDer's two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close R/S that can be abandoned and no intimacy that would cause the suffocating feeling of engulfment.

 

This is why most BPDers can be nice and caring all day long with those people -- but will go home at night to abuse the very people who love them. My BPDer exW, for example, exuded a warmth and childlike purity of expressions that made total strangers feel very comfortable around her almost immediately.

 

Her anger is fixed. At one point she shifted her anger from my family to some of her close friends. Where i know some of her best friends from home won't even speak to her anymore.

As I noted above, high functioning BPDers typically get along fine with casual friends. When those friends make the mistake of drawing close, however, they will start triggering the BPDer's fears. At that point, the BPDer likely will push the close friend away. This is why BPDers typically have no close long-term friends (unless that friend lives a long distance away).

 

Another reason for pushing the friends away is that a BPDer is too immature to be able to handle strong mixed feelings, ambiguities, uncertainties, and other gray areas of interpersonal relationships. Hence, like a young child, she will categorize everyone close to her as "all good" (i.e., "white" or "with me") or "all bad" (i.e., "black" or "against me"). And she will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or action.

 

Hence, if your W is a BPDer, the slightest infraction (real or simply imagined) can result in you -- or a close friend -- being reclassified from "all good" to "all bad." If this was happening frequently in your marriage, you likely felt like you often were walking on eggshells around her to avoid triggering her anger. This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book (targeted to the abused partners) is called Stop Walking on Eggshells.

 

But even 13 months later my wife was still digging up the past.... She's always blaming the fact that i'm not an emotional person.

If she is a BPDer, that behavior is to be expected. BPDers have a very weak, fragile sense of who they are. To the extent they have any lasting self identity, it is the false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." To "validate" that false self image, a BPDer typically keeps a mental list of every infraction (real or imagined) made by you or other close family members. During an argument -- no matter how trivial -- the BPDer will not hesitate to pull out that entire list of infractions, using something that happened years ago to justify why she feels like she is being controlled or victimized today.

 

We've been in counseling 3 different times.

If she is a BPDer, MC likely will be a total waste of time until she has addressed her more serious issues in several years of individual therapy. Teaching a BPDer how to improve her communication skills, as MCs are good at doing,

will not help until she first learns more basic skills: e.g., how to trust, how to regulate her own emotions, and how to avoid black-white thinking.

 

She "knew" my sibling was lying and was determined to catch them in a lie.

Because a BPDer is unable to regulate her own emotions, she experiences feelings so intense that she is absolutely convinced they MUST be true. Like a young child, a BPDer perceives intense feels as self-evident "facts." A BPDer is too immature to intellectually challenge her own strong feelings.

 

i have a really bad temper... i've been verbally abusive to her... I should know better at my age, but i tend to be a name caller.

Your verbal abuse and bad temper are BPD traits. But please keep in mind that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy).

 

At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot -- especially after being married to her for 16 months -- because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as suicide threats, physical and verbal abuse, and rapid event-triggered mood flips.

 

I just don't know what to do.... Thought's/opinions?

Given your reluctance to divorce her, I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you're dealing with. As I noted above, an important issue is whether your W has strong BPD traits that are causing her to abuse alcohol/drugs or, alternatively, whether her addiction to alcohol/drugs is causing her to exhibit the strong BPD traits.

 

I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Although it is easy to spot strong BPD symptoms, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a painful situation, e.g., taking your W back or running into the arms of another woman just like her. Take care, Hubby.

[Cephalopod]

You have Stockholm Syndrome. Look it up.

 

Compound that with codependency and you are going to let this disturbed woman destroy you.

[NTV]

I would bet you money right now she is telling her psychological counseling person how all her messed up stuff is your fault.

[LostHubby2015]

You have Stockholm Syndrome. Look it up.

 

Compound that with codependency and you are going to let this disturbed woman destroy you.

 

I'm aware of what Stockholm Syndrome is. The ironic part of this is that i returned to this site today and shocked that my thread was a little towards the top again.

 

Regarding what Downtown said the more ironic part is that Downtown said "Given my reluctance to divorce...." It's not so much reluctance to divorce as more so hesitation as it was hard to swallow. However, I have signed the divorce papers a few weeks ago, but haven't sent back to my attorney. Today it dawned on me, finally, that for myself the best thing probably is to file. Again, i don't believe it's reluctance, but it's just been a long, hard road. As i'm sure may others can agree. It's just really hard to bring yourself to "throw away" 6 years. But it also can't be easy for a person to say "go ahead. Amputate my leg". What it comes down to though is at the end of the day you can let that dead leg kill the rest of you and cut it off and live the rest of your life and learn to walk without it.

 

I know i'm not the only person on here with this issue, but it's without question the hardest thing i've ever had to do in my life.

[Mr. Lucky]

It's just really hard to bring yourself to "throw away" 6 years. But it also can't be easy for a person to say "go ahead. Amputate my leg". What it comes down to though is at the end of the day you can let that dead leg kill the rest of you and cut it off and live the rest of your life and learn to walk without it.

 

Bingo. Once gangrene sets in, the amputation option looks pretty good.

 

Ask any gambler or investor - it's hard to walk away from a substantial commitment, whether time or money. But the smart ones will tell you the only thing worse is continuing to pour in good money after bad. Gotta know when to fold 'em...

 

Mr. Lucky

[LostHubby2015]

Ok, not to be a pain in the butt as much as I've posted on here the last two months. Everyone and their brother is telling me I need to go my own way in order to save myself. I have the petition for divorce signed and an email ready to go to my attorney. I've flipped a coin so many times and it has landed on heads (Yes, to send the email) more than tails. Even at one point it was 8 times in a row.

 

I have it set to go, but still struggling to hit the send button. Why is this? I know not to long ago i was able to define exactly, to myself, why i would benefit from going my own way. It's so hard and i guess i'm worried i'll be left with regret. Does that mean i'm not ready to divorce yet and may hurt myself more in the long run? My wife is currently on a trip with her family, which i personally feel she needs to get herself right and i expressed this to my in-laws so they knew i was in agreement, but seeing pictures does make me a little bitter as I've been stuck paying all of the bills for the last 5 months while she is working on her addiction problem. From what i know she isn't working at all yet and has become "obsessed" with working out again. And i guess she's always sending snapchats (we can't legally speak since she was arrested for domestic assault on me) So that means i don't get snapchats nor are we friends on any social media. But a friend of hers since 7th grade, who is no longer friends with her, told me she is pushing some people away with her "stalking" constantly asking people to work out with her, meet up for lunch, hang out, etc. This friend thinks it's because it's not that she's interested in what others are doing, but more so to make herself feel better as she needs some to constantly "hold her hand." With to that comment i was in a very strong agreement with this friend of my wife's. As i felt like i had to hold her hand a lot. Even though she would expressly state and tell people "I'm a confident person". Which some people who know all the in's and out's think that if a person feels they need to say it and tell others this, it's probably isn't true. Which i guess i kinda agree. Cuz i like to think of myself as a very confident person and i normally don't care what people think of me, but i have never, not once, gone around and told people that i'm confident.

 

Be honest with me. Am i being dumb in clinging to this (even if it's understandable/normal)? Also, i'm not an overly spiritual person at all. Like i have a religion in which i was raised, it works for me, but i don't "practice" like what i'm supposed to. With that said, i kinda prayed the other night asking two of my grandparents that have passed for a sign what to do. Sure enough last night, the night i prayed, i was laying in bed and was looking at stuff on my phone. And i got the weirdest pop-up i've ever gotten. It said "It's never too late to start over. If you weren't happy with yesterday, try something different today. Don't stay stuck. Do better."

 

So needless to say kinda weird, but i'm trying to be logical and i'm not sure if it's like a horoscope. Of course if you look for a connection you'll find one. But then i also think back to two different occasions when things were really bad and i was at a boiling point and i was driving, two different times i got in my car and started driving and the song "I need a lover who won't drive me crazy" came on. So yeah....then there's that. Maybe the universe is trying to tell me something and i'm just being my stubborn self and not listening.

[Mr. Lucky]

But then i also think back to two different occasions when things were really bad and i was at a boiling point and i was driving, two different times i got in my car and started driving and the song "I need a lover who won't drive me crazy" came on. So yeah....then there's that. Maybe the universe is trying to tell me something and i'm just being my stubborn self and not listening.

 

This is a decision too important to be left up to coin flips and the Sirius/XM song rotation.

 

You've invested 6 years into trying to fix both her and the relationship - how's that going for you? Involvement with a self-destructive person is like trying to save a panicked swimmer - their instinct is to grab on and drag you down with them. If you've made a good faith effort, at some point you have to wonder what making yourself a martyr to their failure accomplishes?

 

No one, your lucky coin included, can make this choice for you. But it has to be pretty tempting to wonder what a normal, stable, healthy life looks like...

 

Mr. Lucky

[LostHubby2015]

So, as i had mentioned previously i had an email with the petition to file typed up but wasn't able to bring myself to send it. if you read my earlier post i was looking to the sky and anything else to help me figure out what to do.

 

Well after my last post it was maybe about 3 or 4 hours later i was just "at peace" i guess you could say and came to the conclusion, i do care for her well-being, but the feelings i have for my future and my well-being are also there. Long story short i decided to send the email and get things going. It wasn't easy, as i'm sure many of you know. But some advice i had been given a while back with all that had gone on which was "what would your wife's parents tell her if you did this to her?" coupled with my cousins advice of "do you really see a way forward that makes things whole with your family again?" (long LONG story there). I just felt like......as much as some may think i was giving up. To me it was more of a just "i'm tired and i can't keep doing this anymore."

 

It was hard and i have had some low points, but for the most part i really haven't been as down and depressed as i thought i would have been. Time will tell as i tend to not always feel things right away, but with all the tears i've shed over all of this i do believe it's the best for myself and also her. I know some of you will say the hell with her, but i do want what's best for her and with how toxic we became toward one another i feel this is best for her too.

 

It was 6 years and based on some other posts i have read, i am greatful for the 6 years (more so the first 4) as we had some amazing times and whatnot and she did shape me into being a better person, which i can't deny. I know i've learned a lot while things were still healthy between us and i know she learned from me as well. I just wish this relationship was the "happily ever after" and not a lesson. I guess i'll just have to wait for the sun to rise tomorrow and see what happens. Thanks to everyone for my rants and even short-tempered responses to those of you who read my first post. Still feel a little lost, but i know it'll heal in time.

Edited April 3, 2017 by LostHubby2015

[LostHubby2015]

So I've been on here a few times in the past couple months (previous threads are below for anyone not familiar and who'd want to catch up). I filed for divorce last month and i feel like i'm having some "head games" going on with myself. I don't see a path forward and i know that it's going to be for the best. I find myself at home and even at work saying to myself "i just want my life back". Which even in saying that sucks because of course there are good memories, blah blah blah.

 

Part of the problem is the town where I live isn't the greatest place on earth, but over the past several years i'm slowly turning it into home. But with all this anxiety i've been feeling i keep debating if i should just move after the divorce is finalized. At the same time i wonder if i do am i just "running" sorta thing? I even read an article the other day about a few things to do if you're happy with where you are and the standard question "where do you see yourself in 5 years?" was mentioned. At this point i don't even know. I would have to say myself and even my S2BX have both been through the ringer for our own reasons, but i can't answer it. While my W was still here i enjoyed this town, she hated it of course, but we had talked about moving which i was ok with should the right job open up. But now with her gone i'm questioning if i should even stay anymore.

 

I kind of feel like a jerk because she hated it here, which again i was willing to move just not for a lesser job, and she wanted to move. But now that she's not here with me anymore i'm thinking i should move. No idea where i would move and there are arguments to towns where i know people or just to some places in the south as well for a change. Just to toss this out there, not that it's overly relevant, but with how things all happened between my W and I, i feel like i'm at the point where i don't want to be with someone ever again. Like i look back at how poorly i reacted throughout this entire thing and think i'm not as good of a guy as all my friends (and even some of hers) think i am.

 

The "dark" anniversary i'm referring to is on the eve of Mother's Day last year things got out of control and my W ended up clawing and scratching at me where I had to duck out of my shirt and literally run to my car. I ended up staying the night at a hotel and it wasn't until i got to the hotel i realized i was bleeding from what i was scratched. I can't remember the full reason for the argument, but i know it was mixed with if i should tell my mom happy mother's day or not. My W was insistent that i don't because short version is my W grew to not be a fan of my mom. Mainly from of what took place on our wedding day (real or perceived, i'm not really sure as i didn't see anything so i'll never know the truth).

 

But what hurts the worst is the next day i checked out of the hotel and went home. My W was sobered up and i was still very very upset with what happened the night before. My W was in tears crying begging me to give her a hug and i refused. Mainly because i was fed up with her sh*t at that point and this wasn't the first time something like this happened. Then when I told her i texted my mom happy mother's day she packed some bags and left. Only later i found out she was in a violent drunken haze the entire next week (with her family and friends) which ended in her going to a mental health unit for 5 days.

 

The part that hurts is i can still see her standing there crying begging for a hug and i wouldn't do it. I remember thinking 1 minute after she ended up leaving was that i'd regret not hugging her and i still do. Granted after things "got better" for a little while there were very real and very loving hugs afterwards, but on that day when she needed a hug i wouldn't and it was because i was still upset with her behavior and me not caring about how she felt in that moment.

 

I'm sure nobody can relate to the situation, but has anyone else ever experienced similar feelings? Other than the tried and true "give it time" was there anything you discovered to help with the anxiety?

 

Here is the link for my other post:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/612656-16-months-hell

Edited May 4, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Merge threads and update title