Really? HOPE is your strategy, approach and plan for Dating / Relationships?

April 16, 2012

Really? HOPE alone is your strategy, approach and plan for Dating / Relationships?

Let's use the following example as just one of countless examples I could choose from:

Note: Heart of a Lion, is implying that the guy in this story is walking into this situation without having a say in the matter and should he become a "victim", the women in this case, is solely responsible.

You're misinterpreting what I have been saying. He said he was open to a relationship. Yet she only intends to f*ck him. The thing I've been pointing out has been for her to be clear to him about that she only wants sex and to do it beforehand, rather than AFTER.

What f*cking problem do you see with that?

Things like these are only simple when people are open and transparent to each other.

What planet do you live on?

Here on earth people don't walk around with signs on them that tell you what they are thinking, feeling, wanting, doing, etc. Even if they did... People grow, change, mature, so do their feelings, what they want, what they need, etc.

Since people here on earth have absolutely no control what someone else is going to say, think, do, etc. it's imperative and essential for your overall health and well-being to not hand over all your power and give someone else control over your life. Instead, I recommend that when it comes to making decisions in your life that you use your free will, life experience, experiences of others, deductive reasoning skills, knowledge, wisdom, etc. to determine what is in your best interests and hold yourself responsible / accountable for our actions and the choices we make.

Since I am in charge of my own happiness, since I hold myself responsible / accountable for how I allow others to treat me and using my talents, skills, abilities, wisdom and leveraging lessons I have learned through good and bad life experiences...

I have determined several things when it comes to someone you just met, are dating or in a relationship with:

1. I don't hand over my free will or relinquish my control over what I want, what I need and my decision making ability to someone else.

2. I don't get my self-worth, validation, approval, identity, self-respect, etc. from someone else. Mine all come comes from within.

3. I don't confuse dating / relationships with marriage. Dating / relationships is a "courting" period, not till death due you part.

4. People have their own goals, purpose and agenda and they may not be the same as mine. Also, people are not always aware or honest with themselves to know what those are.

5. Words can be misleading and often are, actions cannot lie.

6. I do not assume or project ANYTHING onto the person I am dating or in a relationship with.

7. People change and so do their feelings.

8. There are a lot of unhealthy and damaged people out there.

9. Sex doesn't mean they want me, like me, love me, want to date me, want a relationship, what to marry me and they can even do it if they hate me.

10. Not everyone is looking for a "forever" relationship / marriage. People often date / enter into relationships for just that, fun. There is nothing wrong with people doing this.

11. When someone shows me who / what they are... I believe them.

12. I am not "Captain Fix a Ho" and I don't date or enter into relationships with "fixer uppers".

13. If after dating a while, they are not 100% sure they want to be with me... I do not / am not going to be with them.

14. I don't beg, plead, convince, negotiate, threaten, manipulate, etc. someone to be / want to be with me.

15. I am me. They either liked me or they don't.

16. If someone does not know who they are or what they want... I do not pursue them, date them, enter into a relationship with them, marry them.

17. It's very easy and I am quick to determine if the person I just met / am dating is a person who has character, integrity, morals, values, etc. If they do not possess / have those, they are history.

18. If someone really wants to be with you, they will not hesitate and will gladly remove / address any of the obstacles that might be in the way.

19. If it's just starting out and I run into a lot challenges, obstacles, issues, drama, chaos, games, etc.... I end it.

20. If someone is in a relationship, just got out of a relationship or hung up on an Ex... I do not date them.

21. If someone has to explain and clarify their relationship(s) as "just" friends or "good" friends with someone of the opposite sex or with an Ex, I don't date them. What they mean is, they are "just" friends / "good" friends with that person for the moment. I only have friends and I expect the person I choose to date / be in a relationship to have the same.

22. I could go on and on and on.

It's not that complicated people it should go like this:

Boy meets girl, boy ask girl out, girl says yes, boy keeps asking girl out, girl keeps saying yes, boy and girl fall in love, boy and girl ride off into the sunset.

I don't understand how a majority of the LS community can screw that up!

If things were really as simple as you say they are, then you wouldn't be talking about your LTR's in plural form and in the past tense.

This is another HUGE mistake you are making and this line of thinking is wrong on so many levels!

Just because I don't like the answer to the question... doesn't mean that I am suppose to take it personal, think it's a reflection of me, my self worth and try to change the answer.

What is the question, you ask?

"Is this the person I want / am going to spend the rest of my life with?"

If either of us decide to stop dating, break up or end a relationship for WHATEVER reason... We both now have the answer to that question and the answer is, NO.

So for me... Rejection, a break up or the end a relationship is not a failure, I view it as a success!

What's the alternative?

To deny myself or the person I was with their own happiness? To take it personal, lose all my self-respect, dignity and chase after someone who doesn't want / deserve me? To forgo all my hopes, wishes and dreams to stay with someone I shouldn't / don't want to be with?

How on earth could anyone view the above a success?

Now armed with all the above wisdom and knowledge, let's get back to what Heart of a Lion originally wrote...

First, let me share a little more information about what Heart of a Lion is referencing... this is directly from the women to whom he was speaking about:

Anyho, I met this guy while I was at the bar waiting for drinks. We went away to talk and ended up talking for 2 hours. He is 29, works in IT, tall, dark with nicely sculpted body. I was definitely attracted...but...

He ended a LTR 4 months ago and we bonded over that and the fact that we both feel a bit lost. Neither of us is looking for a relationship. I told him that I am not looking for anything serious but not one night stand either. He said he feels the same. HOWEVER, it was clear that he wanted to have sex that night. He kept hinting and I kept rejecting and telling him it's not gonna happen. He asked if he can kiss me. I said no at first but then ended up kissing him . It was pretty hot and he commented on how much he enjoyed it. Still, I didn't want to go home with him.

It turned into a long drawn out discussion (reminded me of talks I had with my ex). He basically said that I am complicating things too much with "I don't want a relationship but not one night stand either". I thought I was being clear. He kept telling me: simplify, simplify. He asked me: OK in clear English, what do you want me to do right now. I told him: I want you to take my phone number and to call me tomorrow and ask me out on a date. He exclaimed, finally we are getting somewhere! So he took my number and then I told him I feel like I forced him into taking my number. He again said wow, so complicated.

Note: Eternal Sunshine just got out of a LTR also and is hung up on her Ex too. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that is why she told the guy she didn't want a relationship or was looking for a ONS. I am also willing to bet that if I spoke with her further, she would share this information.

Do you think there is a good chance he might not be over his Ex if it ended a few months? He felt the need to disclose that information after having just met her. Do you think that he felt the need to disclose such a thing, it might be relevant?

Is there a possibility that the guy is not being truthful when he said he was open to a relationship with a women he just met in a nightclub who he was trying to have sex with before a first date even?

According to Eternal he made it CLEAR that he wanted to have sex and was "open" to a relationship. How could he honestly know he wants a relationship with someone he just met and does not know?

He said he was open to a relationship. Yet she only intends to f*ck him. The thing I've been pointing out has been for her to be clear to him about that she only wants sex and to do it beforehand, rather than AFTER.

Seriously? You are unable to connect the dots on this situation if you are the guy or the girl in this story? Do you really need the other person to connect the dots and color it in for you?

If you were the guy and when Eternal Sunshine TELLS YOU she doesn't want to be in a relationship and not looking for a ONS... You think she wants a relationship, marriage or she needs to have "the talk" to define the "whatever" it is they would be doing?

Is he suppose to HOPE that Eternal was lying when she said she didn't want a relationship? When he learns that she just got out of a LTR is he suppose to HOPE that she is over the break up and not hung up on her Ex?

After talking to the guy for 5 minutes she finds out he is just out of a LTR and she suppose to HOPE that he is over the break up and not hung up on his Ex? Is she suppose to HOPE and take the guy at his word about being open to relationship with someone he hadn't been on a date with and was trying to take her home and have sex that night?

HOPE alone is not a healthy strategy, approach, plan to dating / relationships.

HOPE people are easy to spot on LS. They are the "victims" that gladly give up their free will and hand over all their power and decision making ability. It frees them from any blame, responsibility or criticism even though they are the common denominator in their own problems. Typically they are the ones bashing the other gender and believe it is solely their fault for not making their HOPES come true.

Armed with only HOPE, you will overlook and justify anything to be with someone even if you know it is unhealthy, bad or wrong. If you haven't noticed.... It usually doesn't end very well for you either.

Edited April 16, 2012 by gibson

April 16, 2012

Were you watching that Rob Judge video at the U21 mens conference??

He basically says the same thing, which is "**** hope" because hope won't get you anything unless you go for it.

April 16, 2012

He basically says the same thing, which is "**** hope" because hope won't get you anything unless you go for it.

Reminds me of something my granny would say, "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride."

April 16, 2012

I recently read this book by Brene Brown. Hope isn't just a pathetic feeling:

"Learning to Hope

In studying resilience in the face of trauma and pain, researcher Brené Brown found that the capacity to hope-intelligently and actively-is an essential component.

As a researcher, I can't think of two words that are more misunderstood than the words hope and power. As soon as I realized that hope is an important piece of Wholehearted living, I started investigating and found the work of C. R. Snyder, a former researcher at the University of Kansas, Lawrence.1 Like most people, I always thought of hope as an emotion-like a warm feeling of optimism and possibility. I was wrong.

Excerpts:

Cultivating Hope

Ordinary Courage

I was shocked to discover that hope is not an emotion; it's a way of thinking or a cognitive process. Emotions play a supporting role, but hope is really a thought process made up of what Snyder calls a trilogy of goals, pathways, and agency.2 In very simple terms, hope happens when:

We have the ability to set realistic goals (I know where I want to go).
We are able to figure out how to achieve those goals, including the ability to stay flexible and develop alternative routes (I know how to get there, I'm persistent, and I can tolerate disappointment and try again).
We believe in ourselves (I can do this!).

So, hope is a combination of setting goals, having the tenacity and perseverance to pursue them, and believing in our own abilities.

And, if that's not news enough, here's something else: Hope is learned! Snyder suggests that we learn hopeful, goal-directed thinking in the context of other people. Children most often learn hope from their parents. Snyder says that to learn hopefulness, children need relationships that are characterized by boundaries, consistency, and support. I think it's so empowering to know that I have the ability to teach my children how to hope. It's not a crapshoot. It's a conscious choice.

To add to Snyder's work on hope, I found in my research that men and women who self-report as hopeful put considerable value on persistence and hard work. The new cultural belief that everything should be fun, fast, and easy is inconsistent with hopeful thinking. It also sets us up for hopelessness. When we experience something that is difficult and requires significant time and effort, we are quick to think, This is supposed to be easy; it's not worth the effort, or, This should be easier: it's only hard and slow because I'm not good at it. Hopeful self-talk sounds more like, This is tough, but I can do it.

On the other hand, for those of us who have the tendency to believe that everything worthwhile should involve pain and suffering (like yours truly), I've also learned that never fun, fast, and easy is as detrimental to hope as always fun, fast, and easy. Given my abilities to chase down a goal and bulldog it until it surrenders from pure exhaustion, I resented learning this. Before this research I believed that unless blood, sweat, and tears were involved, it must not be that important. I was wrong. Again.

We develop a hopeful mind-set when we understand that some worthy endeavors will be difficult and time consuming and not enjoyable at all. Hope also requires us to understand that just because the process of reaching a goal happens to be fun, fast, and easy doesn't mean that it has less value than a difficult goal. If we want to cultivate hopefulness, we have to be willing to be flexible and demonstrate perseverance. Not every goal will look and feel the same. Tolerance for disappointment, determination, and a belief in self are the heart of hope.

As a college professor and researcher, I spend a significant amount of time with teachers and school administrators. Over the past two years I've become increasingly concerned that we're raising children who have little tolerance for disappointment and have a strong sense of entitlement, which is very different than agency. Entitlement is "I deserve this just because I want it" and agency is "I know I can do this." The combination of fear of disappointment, entitlement, and performance pressure is a recipe for hopelessness and self-doubt.

Hopelessness is dangerous because it leads to feelings of powerlessness. Like the word hope, we often think of power as negative. It's not. The best definition of power comes from Martin Luther King Jr. He described power as the ability to effect change. If we question our need for power, think about this: How do you feel when you believe that you are powerless to change something in your life?

Powerlessness is dangerous. For most of us, the inability to effect change is a desperate feeling. We need resilience and hope and a spirit that can carry us through the doubt and fear. We need to believe that we can effect change if we want to live and love with our whole hearts.

Sources cited:

1. C. R. Snyder. Psychology of Hope: You Can Get There from Here. New York: Free Press, 2003.

2. C.R. Snyder, K. A. Lehman, B. Kluck, and Y. Monsson, "Hope for Rehabilitation and Vice Versa," Rehabilitation Psychology. 51:2 (2006): 89-112; C. R. Snyder, "Hope Theory: Rainbows in the Mind," Psychological Inquiry. 13:4 (2002): 249-275.

Excerpted from The Gifts of Imperfection: Let Go of Who You Think You're Supposed to Be and Embrace Who You Are by Brené Brown (Hazelden 2010).

SIDEBAR:

Brene Brown's lecture has been identified as one of the best of the TED talks of 2011 by the Huffington Post. See her talk here. [link to http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/tedtalks2011]"

Learning to Hope | Behavioral Health Evolution

April 16, 2012

I posted something, but it's waiting for mod approval, apparently...

It was about the fact that hope isn't a useless/pathetic feeling. I'll try to post again - it was an article.

*edit. Still not allowing me to post.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Anela

April 16, 2012

Learning to Hope

In studying resilience in the face of trauma and pain, researcher Brené Brown found that the capacity to hope-intelligently and actively-is an essential component.

As a researcher, I can't think of two words that are more misunderstood than the words hope and power. As soon as I realized that hope is an important piece of Wholehearted living, I started investigating and found the work of C. R. Snyder, a former researcher at the University of Kansas, Lawrence.1 Like most people, I always thought of hope as an emotion-like a warm feeling of optimism and possibility. I was wrong.

Excerpts:

Cultivating Hope

Ordinary Courage

I was shocked to discover that hope is not an emotion; it's a way of thinking or a cognitive process. Emotions play a supporting role, but hope is really a thought process made up of what Snyder calls a trilogy of goals, pathways, and agency.2 In very simple terms, hope happens when:

We have the ability to set realistic goals (I know where I want to go).
We are able to figure out how to achieve those goals, including the ability to stay flexible and develop alternative routes (I know how to get there, I'm persistent, and I can tolerate disappointment and try again).
We believe in ourselves (I can do this!).