Hmmmm

[Grapesofwrath]

A few weeks ago, I was spending the afternoon with a group of friends (all female) and some of their male friends came along. I hit it off with one of them, Mike, and he asked for my number. I know he's single, and that was really all I needed to know at first.

 

The next day, I was speaking with Kathy, my closest friend among this group, and told her that he asked for my number. I asked her if there was anything I needed to know about him that might present a problem, and inquired whether any of the other women in this circle has her eye on him. I didn't want to step on anyone's toes, and would back off completely if someone else was pursuing him or would be hurt if we went out. She assured me that I had a greenlight, that he is a great guy, and that I should go for it. There was something in her tone that gave me a strange gut feeling, however.

 

Mike got in touch with me and we made plans to go out. He asked that I not share this with others in the group because they work together and he didn't want to be the subject of gossip at work. I said that was fine, but also mentioned that Kathy already knew about it as she is a close friend and we don't keep secrets. She had asked me once or twice how things were going, so I told her we had plans. He said he was fine with that, and that she was probably the one person among that group that he would trust to keep it quiet.

 

So we are out on the date last night and Mike says, "I need to talk to you about Kathy. A couple months ago, she was giving me signals that she is interested in being more than friends. I don't feel the same way, so I didn't pursue it and just let it end naturally, which it has. This is why I didn't want her to know we are seeing each other. Didn't want to hurt her feelings." This made sense to me, and also explained why my gut reacted the way it did. So we agreed to keep our dates to ourselves for the near term, until we've established what we're going to have together.

 

The date was awesome and we had a blast. Made plans to get together again tonight.

 

Today he let me know that Kathy invited him to get together this afternoon so they will be spending some time together today. My plans for tonight with Mike remain unchanged.

 

Part of me really appreciates that Kathy was willing to step aside and not mention her feelings toward Mike so that I could pursue something with him. She is a generous person and this is an example of her unselfish nature. But because of recent events in my life, these kinds of issues give me pause.

 

Am I being overly paranoid? Am I over-looking something? Should I be concerned that something is being concealed from me?

[Scarlett.O'hara]

I always trust my instincts if something doesn't feel right. For that reason I would take things slowly with this guy just on the off chance.

[Grapesofwrath]

Mike and I have gone out a few times now (4 in total). The few times we went out alone, he was very attentive and we had fun, laughing, flirting, and enjoying each other. He met a couple of my other friends, and that all went very well. We have also now twice spent some "group" time with our friends including Kathy. His behavior when they are around is much different, much less attentive, almost cold. He doesn't show me any special regard, and actually is sort of bossy. Not sweet. Not affectionate.

 

The last time we all hung out together, the others in the group started asking if anything was going on between us. (They asked him and he refused to answer.) Not sure why they picked up on it, as he certainly wasn't make a show of anything. Wouldn't touch me. Didn't hold my hand. No special treatment, etc. Later, one of them asked me if anything was going on between us because he kept asking me to hold things for him in my purse. That was the big sign?! He seemed more interested in hanging out with Kathy than with me, and I started to wonder if he likes her more than he lets on.

 

In any case, I felt like he wants to keep our dating life a secret from the others, but they are grown-ups and have figured it out. I'm fine with that. I don't want to have to keep secrets. I get that we aren't going to PDA all over the place in front of them, but I think it should be okay for him to put his arm around me or open a door for me, etc.

 

Am I being insensitive here? Is he just trying to protect Kathy's feelings?

[gettingstronger]

I think he is just trying to navigate through this as best he can- from what I can see, Kathy means a lot to him as a friend and I think its kind that he is trying to be a good guy about it- as things grow and progress, if he continues to put her feelings above your relationship, it would be time for a serious talk- until then, have some fun and enjoy yourself!

[jen1447]

Some basic things I don't particularly like the sound of (tho I'm loathe to encourage any paranoia on your part) -

 

- Kathy didn't tell you the whole truth about Mike initially.

- Mike didn't tell you the whole truth about Kathy initially.

- Mike initially cast his concern as sth it wasn't - a reluctance for the group to know what was going on - and didn't mention that it was actually Kathy he was concerned about, which he then later stated explicitly.

 

So while both of those things on their face seemed like Kathy and Mike being straight shooters, they were actually keeping the truth from you about their history, and it sounds like the only reason Mike mentioned the truth on your first date is bc you had told him Kathy already knew about you dating. I could be wrong of course bc I wasn't there to see all the nuances involved and you were, but that's what it sounds like 'cold.'

 

As to the newer stuff, regardless of why or any potential affect from Kathy and Mike's history, I don't like the change-of-behavior lack of affection (and even respect to some extent) from Mike when among the group. If he's got insecurity or butthurt issues or whatever, fine, but even w/ppl just dating that should be sth approached and dealt w/together, not just by him acting out and you being the sudden outsider.

 

I enjoy a lot of affection, public included, and I think it's normal to be that way and to enjoy it and expect some reasonable amount of it. (Arms around, holding doors, etc.) I don't absolutely have to have it, but if I lost it in that context it'd be a deal-breaker for me. I'd either tell him I'm gonna give him some time off to get his mind right and act like a grown man, or if it was egregious enough (walking in front of you, letting the door slam in your face, etc.) I'd 'correct' him, possibly even publicly.

 

I don't like to poop all over your new thing bc I know this is an important step for you but I think it has to be 'real' regardless, and sth sounds off about this. I don't know I'd worry that Kathy and Mike are still in some relationship, physical or emotional, but it does seem like there's still some juice in the air. Ppl have histories and that's NBD but if the history is actually more current than they're letting on and there's social butthurt still at play, that's not exactly innocent and you should be fully informed as a participant, particularly as a friend.

[Grapesofwrath]

Thanks, Jen. I think you nailed a lot of the salient points. It felt like a lack of respect, and there were other instances of it that I didn't enumerate here. One of my other friends (not Kathy) said that she wondered if something was going on between Mike and me because he was being so "bossy" toward me.

 

Thank you, also, for being sensitive to not wanting to poop on my party. You're right. This was a big--positive--step for me. And the fact that it may not work out in no way detracts from that. So happy to have made the step, and headed in a better direction now. And for those who are wondering, NO!! This experience in no way tempts me to go back to xMM. That door is closed. Nailed shut. Done and done. It does tempt me to date others, though. And I'm excited about that.

[preraph]

Why is he going with her if he knows she's after him and isn't interested? I would ask him that. She was being accommodating and generous. She knows she has no claim to him, but she also feels no obligation to take a step back.

[todreaminblue]

the coldness towards you in a group....would to me...be something to be concerned about......any coldness actually.....group or singular....deb

[Popsicle]

Yes, something is off. They have some sort of unfinished business. I'd back away, but that's just me. I've had girlfriends try to hook me up with their male BFF's .... and just.... no.

[Grapesofwrath]

Well, Mike told me today that he thinks we should just be friends. His statement, sent via text, is that he doesn't think that long-term is going to work out romantically, but if we stop now we will end up being good friends and he'd rather have an awesome friend than an ex he doesn't talk to.

 

I agree with him, actually. I think he's right. If there is more to the story, I don't know it. And it's fine. This is why we date. To get to know people.

[Grapesofwrath]

To further update: since telling me he just wants to be friends he has twice invited me to get together...as friends. With the rest of the gang. So I think he really meant it.

[jen1447]

To further update: since telling me he just wants to be friends he has twice invited me to get together...as friends. With the rest of the gang. So I think he really meant it.

 

That's cool, but beware the '2 week waiting period'- that's the normal amount of time that pledges of friendship last after breakups.

 

Altho you might be exempt due to existing friend circle and you weren't really officially formally official at any point.

[Grapesofwrath]

Mike has been pretty consistant in inviting me to join in group stuff for the past few weeks, although nothing alone, which is fine. Finally, our schedules lined up and Mike, Kathy and some of the others got together a couple times. Was actually pretty fun. I still sense sexual tension there, but that's okay. He was much friendlier now than he was when we were "dating." Weird.

 

As for Beta Orbiting:: I have another male friend, Mark, who I have known for a few years. We met when our sons were on the same baseball team. In the beginning, we got together alone a few times and there were some romantic moments, but it didn't develop into anything as he was newly separated and I sensed he was not a candidate for a relationship. He wouldn't "friend" me on any social media for fear his ex-wife would find out, so I just let that all go.

 

Over the years, we have developed a friendship that primarily involves getting all the kids together and watching sports, etc. He and I rarely spend time alone, though when we do it's usually something like a meditation retreat, book reading, or to hash out a problem that he has over a glass of wine.

 

He started dating a woman about 9 months ago and I didn't hear from him much during that time. Then he started reaching out to ask me dating and relationship advice. They have broken up twice, both on his initiative, and when they do, he will reach out to me for a listening ear, which I have always provided. This last time he dumped her the night before she was supposed to meet his parents, then leave on a trip to Mexico.

 

After their last break-up, I invited him a couple times to join my friends and I at a party or live music so he could expand his social circle. I told him that it's good to develop that social support system. He would always cancel at the last minute siting one excuse or another.

 

Today he sent me an email saying he now can't make it to my 50th birthday party next month because he got back together with this gf and they are going away for the weekend. (When I originally sent the Save The Date a couple months ago, I told him he was more than welcome to bring her as well.) He says he has to "take advantage of the opportunity while his kids are away" (he has them every other weekend, so this is bs) and he has to "invest in this relationship."

 

I'm feeling pretty used by him right now. When he needs a friend to listen to his romantic problems, I'm the first call. When he wants a playdate for his son, my boys are on the short list. But when it's time to honor this friendship that he says he "values very much" then he's got better things to do.

 

It's like we say on all the forums: Actions > Words.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Grapesofwrath