Guilt vs remorse vs shame as it relates to affairs

[calmb4thestorm]

What does guilt or remorse (or lack thereof) say about someone who is either presently involved in an affair or has been involved in the past in an affair?

 

Some may remember my story, but I've been involved in a PA with a coworker for a year and attempted to break it off several times, but kept falling back in. It is still going on, but I've recognized for a long time now how unhealthy it is and I'm trying to remove myself from the situation permanently and trying to wind it down. The OW loves me and will not be pleased with this and always tries to creep back into my life when I end things...and so far it's worked because I'm weak. The lure of her sex is simply too strong and tempting. And although she pursued me this last time, I feel like I'm not being fair on her either because once we started up again, I told her what she wanted to hear...I future-faked...I gave her false hope (yet again), but I realize I probably don't want a life with her since it's been a year already and I haven't committed yet. I realize this is cake-eating and I so desperately want to get out of it. I battle my morality in my head constantly. I tell myself 'I'll sleep with her one last time'...almost like an addict seeks 'one last fix' before going into rehab I'd assume. Almost like closure. But this 'one last time' never seems to come. There's always another. And I'm not some sex addict either. I just really want to be a better person....but right now I'm a liar and manipulator. I want some integrity back...some order and meaningfulness to my life. For all other intents and purposes, I live a professional and regular life.

 

But back to the original topic, I find myself having fleeting moments of guilt this past year about what I've done to my BW, but those are few and far between. I have put my BW through 2 d-days with the same affair and she still loves me. I feel like I should have much stronger feelings of guilt...gut-wrenching guilt...but I don't. And I'm not sure how remorseful I am either. Is it wrong that I look back at my affair with fondness? Fond memories of the OW? Of lust? Of love? Seems to me that if I were truly remorseful I'd be sickened about the thought of the OW, about what I've done, and about how badly I've hurt my BW. What is wrong with me? I wish I felt those feelings. Am I still in fog? Or a narcissist? Or does the lack of guilt mean I don't love my wife? Or all of the above?

Edited January 13, 2017 by calmb4thestorm

[aileD]

Maybe once someone holds you accountable for your actions you will start to feel real feelings.

Edited January 14, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Redact full quote of starting post

[HeCantBreakMe]

I want to respond to you because you could be my xMM. I swear I have read over every single one of your posts and had so many concerns that you actually were him and maybe you are- wouldn't that be irony.

 

Anyways - wake up. You don't love this other AP you only think you do because the fantasy is amazing, the sex is great, and all that other crap. You have a stable, loyal and loving wife who is willing to fight for your marriage- it doesn't get much better than that.

 

What is wrong with you is you are still in the affair fog because of how you continue to view the affair and how you view your AP- I am sure you told her "if only I had met you first"- well that is rubbish. You have everything you need right in front of you but you can't get out of your own way to realize it.

 

First and foremost get counseling. Second, go NC with this other person (I get you work together I work with my xMM too ).. If you have to quit your job because you can't keep your pants on then do it. Start taking some responsibility here and get help. OR get a divorce and go be with your AP. in this case, as in the case with my xMM i would give it a few months before you realize what you lost with your wife and go running back.

 

Your AP isn't all she is cracked up to be- she is as messed up as you and you two are toxic together. She or you will cheat and do NOT have that big of an ego to think if she doesn't' deal with her own issues that she wouldn't cheat on you because you can't just jump ship from one relationship into the other and expect the problems to just go away.

 

The problems are not with the marriage the problems are with you.

[Noirek]

Guilt is what you feel when you do something that goes against your personal code (or someone elses) it can often build in some people. It did for me until i confessed because it was driving me insane.

 

Shame usually happens when the A is exposed. But you can have moments of shame when you think about other people knowing your actions. See guilt you feel on your own but shame is when you think about what other people think.

 

Remorse however is when you truly regret your actions and do everything within your power to correct them and do what it takes. it also has nothing to do with other people's opinion of you like shame.

 

You can be ahsamed of your actions and be remorseful. But you can feel shame and not be. You can feel guilty and not feel remorseful either.

[ShatteredLady]

I know that I desperately want to respond to you just like I did when I read your first thread. I don't really know what to say because you trigger me so much. You know I'm REALLY tempted to ask my husband to read & respond in my place. That's very frightening because I'm not sure what he would say...if he were COMPLETELY honest to you.

 

He watched me shatter, crumple & fall. He slept while I sobbed on the bathroom floor. He ate while I starved & vomited from the shock & pain. I wanted to die, not exist, anything to stop the agony. I found it hard to even breathe. I needed to scream so loud that it would free me from the paralyzing torture. I needed it to not be real but it was but how could it be? We were a family. He was my life. We have children, he's a father for gods sake!!

 

What was so disgustingly wrong with me? Can you answer that? What has your wife done that's so evil that you would inflict this on her? You must hate her! Do you? You say that your marriage is ok but it can't be. How can you have such utter contempt for any human being, let alone the woman you've spent so much life with? The woman you made love to, who carried your children as they grew in her body? Were you there for the births? How did you feel? Did you coldly watch her thinking "one day I will destroy you & feel NOTHING"? That wriggling crying baby can be your problem. I'll see it every weekend & be fine because I'm having hot sex with a OW I simply can't resist?

 

Why isn't she enough? Why isn't your family enough? I get that you do care enough not to just kill her but breaking her heart, her faith in you, her belief in love, her trust of mankind, destroying her...that's ok?

 

Does she cry every single day? How much weight has she lost? Does she sleep? Is she medicated just to hold her sanity? Do you notice? Do you give a damn? Does some sick, dark part of you actually enjoy it? Are you a monster? Why couldn't my husband look at me? Really see me? Can you answer these things for me? Please? PLEASE I BEG OF YOU!!

 

I NEED TO UNDERSTAND!!

 

He says that he loves me. He acts like he loves me now. He looks at me with love. I think that he cherishes us, his family. He says that he wants to grow old with me by his side. He says that he wants to share the joys & pains of raising our kids & having grandchildren. It feels like he's sincere.

 

When I told him that we were done & I was filing for divorce it looked like he was shocked, then broken, he cried...he said that he planned suicide. Wanted me, needed me, didn't realize what he was loosing until it had gone too far. That can't be true though, can it? He'd said that he wanted her, not me.

 

After, when I was diagnosed with cancer it seemed to upset him. When I was home from the surgery & he couldn't contact me & assumed the worst, he dropped everything, drove home in a blind panic, shaking, crying. He appeared terrified. He really did look like he cared. He seemed so frightened that he'd lost me for ever. That's not really possible though is it? The cancer hurt so very much less than his repeated betrayals with her.

 

He gave-up everything we had built in a lifetime to return home to England after 18 years in America. He promises that he will do anything. He left his lucrative career. He's unemployed, living with my parents. We're selling our huge dream house. He says that he wants me to now have everything I've ever dreamt of. His wishes are for ME to be happy & be with me anywhere, doing anything, as long as I'm happy, he will be happy....BUT I made him miserable! I'm so confused.

 

Yes, he has given-up a lot to show that I'm everything to him. Do you think so? BUT it can't be real can it? How could he do that to me so easily? How could he rip me, my heart, my soul, everything to pieces & then...it's just over. Will you tell me? You must know!! Please!

 

PLEASE! I beg you!! I'm in agony, I'm broken, I HATE myself. He pissed on everything that meant anything to me AND he enjoyed it!! 'He thought that he loved her at the time', he acted like he hated, despised me!! Why? I beg you to tell me why because YOU KNOW don't you? You must know the answer? Why is this such an adulterers guarded secret? WHY won't anyone tell me what I did so wrong to deserve this?? Is it just more torture? Will adulterers only be happy when us betrayed wives are dead?

 

My beloved brother did kill himself. His betraying wife appears a broken shadow of the woman she was. She looks like the walking dead many, many years later. That must be an act! Is it? Why isn't she happy now? She got what she wanted. She's free to be with her OM, she can have all the hot sex she wants. Why does she still mourn? Why isn't she living her perfect fantasy life with him? She enjoyed torturing my brother, she must of or she wouldn't of done it for so long despite witnessing the agony she inflicted. She won! He's cold, dead, buried!

 

I just don't understand. Is it only good while the wife's suffering? Is that why you don't leave? Would it not be so hot if you were single? Please explain why you keep torturing her? Why do you have such contempt for her? Why do you hate her? Don't say that you don't because you MUST!! I couldn't inflict this on my worst enemy. It's the cruelest punishment. We betrayed can't be innocent. That would make adulterers monsters!

[MidnightBlue1980]

What does guilt or remorse (or lack thereof) say about someone who is either presently involved in an affair or has been involved in the past in an affair?

 

Some may remember my story, but I've been involved in a PA with a coworker for a year and attempted to break it off several times, but kept falling back in. It is still going on, but I've recognized for a long time now how unhealthy it is and I'm trying to remove myself from the situation permanently and trying to wind it down. The OW loves me and will not be pleased with this and always tries to creep back into my life when I end things...and so far it's worked because I'm weak. The lure of her sex is simply too strong and tempting. And although she pursued me this last time, I feel like I'm not being fair on her either because once we started up again, I told her what she wanted to hear...I future-faked...I gave her false hope (yet again), but I realize I probably don't want a life with her since it's been a year already and I haven't committed yet. I realize this is cake-eating and I so desperately want to get out of it. I battle my morality in my head constantly. I tell myself 'I'll sleep with her one last time'...almost like an addict seeks 'one last fix' before going into rehab I'd assume. Almost like closure. But this 'one last time' never seems to come. There's always another. And I'm not some sex addict either. I just really want to be a better person....but right now I'm a liar and manipulator. I want some integrity back...some order and meaningfulness to my life. For all other intents and purposes, I live a professional and regular life.

 

But back to the original topic, I find myself having fleeting moments of guilt this past year about what I've done to my BW, but those are few and far between. I have put my BW through 2 d-days with the same affair and she still loves me. I feel like I should have much stronger feelings of guilt...gut-wrenching guilt...but I don't. And I'm not sure how remorseful I am either. Is it wrong that I look back at my affair with fondness? Fond memories of the OW? Of lust? Of love? Seems to me that if I were truly remorseful I'd be sickened about the thought of the OW, about what I've done, and about how badly I've hurt my BW. What is wrong with me? I wish I felt those feelings. Am I still in fog? Or a narcissist? Or does the lack of guilt mean I don't love my wife? Or all of the above?

 

I remember you. You can't feel guilt or remorse towards your BS because you are in the fog and hiding it. As a fWS myself, I can tell you it takes about 10 months after it's all over for those feelings to sink in. I read that here first and the timing is dead on.

 

As to the AP, I agree with HCBM, you sound a lot like xmm, except of course he never admitted it here as you did. This part is really easy. If you want the AP to let you go, tell her what you posted here. Tell her you are future faking and just using her for sex, that you have no other interest than what is between her legs. Now there are some women who will keep on pursuing but a lot would be gone before you knew what happened.

 

I think you should think about why you feel it is okay to lie and use other women for your own gain. It'd be one thing if you were posting how you were all in love with her, but you are just using her and lying to your wife, for what, free sex? I think you should get some therapy to see why you are doing these things and destroying other people, and your own life in the process.

[MidnightBlue1980]

 

I just don't understand. Is it only good while the wife's suffering? Is that why you don't leave? Would it not be so hot if you were single? Please explain why you keep torturing her? Why do you have such contempt for her? Why do you hate her? Don't say that you don't because you MUST!! I couldn't inflict this on my worst enemy. It's the cruelest punishment. We betrayed can't be innocent. That would make adulterers monsters!

 

He can't explain it. Some people are just bad people. Inhuman. It's just the way they are. You are married to one. The question is, why are you still there? Another thread, another day.

[merrmeade]

Noirek summed it up for you.

 

I would also say this - my own take on the subject:

The experiences, thoughts, and feelings that produce guilt and shame were taught to us. They represent the mores and values that we learned and assimilated from our families and society.

 

Remorse is deeper, more personal and more adult. It may not happen instantly or perfectly but evolves over time. I say "more adult" because remorse is not selfish or ego-centered. It is deep regret for the damage done to others because of one's own actions and, most important, includes empathy - meaning you understand and feel the other's pain. The fact that you caused it brings you to your knees. Because of remorse, people may want to make amends though they understand they cannot change what has already happened. They want forgiveness, but they don't expect or demand it. Even if they get it, they will still feel remorse.

 

Remorse is not debilitating like shame because it is not focused on the mistake; it is focused on the people hurt by the mistake. It does not end in self-hatred Remorse can even make room for self-forgiveness - which is completely different from excuses or needing to spread the blame around. With remorse, one accepts responsibility without needing to soften or explain. There is no time line on remorse; it is always there as a reminder.

 

But most important, true remorse can be discerned by those directly affected. If remorse is there, some of the pain caused others will be lifted because it will be shared.

[merrmeade]

A few more things:

It is probably possible to feel remorse whether or not the other person knows what you did BUT I think you would the person to know.. Either way, it recognizes the disrespect and harm done to the other person which you deeply regret because it was not deserved.

 

Remorse sees the selfishness that caused the wrong perspective.

 

Because of all this, remorse is a result of growth and character development which allows deeper insight unclouded by shame or guilt. Is part of what we sometimes refer to as "the work" the unfaithful spouse must do as part of reconciliation after an affair to understand himself and what he did.

 

Remorse is usually accompanied by the betrayed spouse's discovery of the affair which is probably the reason you're not there yet or even close.

[Mrs. John Adams]

My personal definitions..because these words can mean different things to different people...and no one else can really define them for you personally.

 

Guilt...when you cross a line and you get that feeling in the pit of your stomach that says...what am I doing? you still have time to change your mind...but you don't....but that gnawing feeling sits there.

 

Regret....afterwards....when you ignored your guilt....and now you cannot undo it...you can't go back...and you regret having not listened to the guilt.

 

Sorrow....when you begin to think about the others and how your choice will affect them. When you wish you could take it back but you know now it will always be a part of who you are. You feel badly because you know you have hurt them.

 

Remorse....REMORSE is the biggy here....and i think very few people ever come to know what it means and confuse it with guilt , regret and sorrow.

 

But I have come to to know REMORSE on a very personal level. To me...learning to be remorseful has been a very long slow difficult process. Understanding remorse requires feeling guilty and having regret and being sorry for what you have done.

 

But it is also a process of becoming so in tune mentally with the PAIN that you have caused someone else...that you can place yourself inside of it. It is almost crippling...because you can see and feel through someone else's eyes and heart....what it means to be devastated....what it means to be betrayed and given up for dead by the one person you believed would always and forever be there for you. What it means to have all of your hopes and dreams ripped from you by the one person you trustingly placed them in....and finding out that that person is not who you thought they were.

 

Feeling remorseful ...understanding this crippling pain...putting it on yourself...taking full and complete responsibility for it....becomes so emotionally draining....and obsessive....that you finally REALIZE that you feel EXACTLY the way your spouse must have felt when they found out that you cheated.

 

Until you experience this...and it took me 30 years to get to this place.....you are still in a place mentally that includes you in it....so guilt and regret and sorrow....are emotions that still involve YOU ....

 

REMORSE involves those you have injured....and you are no longer in the equation.

 

It is extremely hard for me to explain it and to put it into words...but i hope i have helped.

 

A betrayed spouse LOOKS for remorse in a wayward spouse...and often they mistake guilt and regret and sorrow as being remorse....

 

Many times here...we will see a betrayed say...my cheating spouse is remorseful. I doubt it. They may be regretful....they may be guilty....they may be sorry. But as long as they demonstrate any selfish behavior...as long as their feelings are still in the equation...they have not yet come to fully understand remorse. I will even go one step further and say....that most betrayed themselves do not fully understand remorse....and very often do not know what they are looking for....we often see people here ask...what is remorse. They know they want it from their wayward...but they don't know what it looks like.

 

Remorse means dying to oneself....it means totally and completely putting on someone else's pain and understanding how it feels....and actively trying to FIX it...becoming willing to do whatever it takes to remove that pain from the person you injured. Remorse requires action.

 

REMORSE REQUIRES ACTION.

 

and this is the difference....this is what you want to see from your wayward. You want to see that they UNDERSTAND your pain and take responsibility for it...and are willing to do WHATEVER is necessary to help you heal from it....placing your needs above their own.

[waterwoman]

I suspect you need to cut all contact with OW for a start. It sounds to me as if as much of your emotional loyalty is with her than is with your wife hence you don't feel remorse.

 

That would help.

 

What would also help is your wife kicking you to the curb and making you see real practical consequences of your appalling behaviour. But that is down to your wife and we can't influence her.

 

You also need IC to work out how it is possible for you to be so selfish and irresponsible about those who deserve the lion's share of your respect and love.

[ShatteredLady]

Mrs Adams. Exactly! EXACTLY!!! Exactly!!! EXACTLY!!!

 

I NEED remorse. I WANT remorse. Only remorse will make me believe that it could NEVER happen again. I caught a glimpse of it once & it was the most amazing feeling in the world. My heart burst with love & joy for him, for us.

 

It was fleeting. I caught a glimpse out of the corner of my eye. The dream is gone. Distant ships, smoke on the horizon & all the other brilliant Pink Floyd stuff....

 

Brutal.

[aileD]

I just read an article today that related to remorse

 

Surviving Infidelity Requires the Partner Who Strayed to Feel Genuine Remorse | World of Psychology

[DKT3]

Shame=concerns of self and how actions reflect on you.

 

Guilt=understanding your actions are wrong

 

Remorse=having empathy for those your actions affect and harm.

 

The vast majority of WS really only have the first two because the third wouldn't allow you to carry on an affair or lie and hide afterwards. Sadly many WS never truly reach true remorse, only the shame and guilt.

[ShatteredLady]

What does guilt or remorse (or lack thereof) say about someone who is either presently involved in an affair or has been involved in the past in an affair?

 

To have an affair, to do something which you know is so very wrong takes a lot of justifications. It must. The adulterer must convince themselves that it's, on some level, in some way, a thing that they can allow themselves to do.

 

Recognizing that it's truly awful & their justifications for bringing that level of betrayal & cruelty into their marriage are just that....'justifications', requires a selflessness, introspection & empathy that's usually completely lacking at the time of the affair.

 

But back to the original topic, I find myself having fleeting moments of guilt this past year about what I've done to my BW, but those are few and far between.

 

Because you use 'justifications' to continue.

 

I have put my BW through 2 d-days with the same affair and she still loves me.

 

Do you realize that it's not the same "love" as before? It's no longer an 'innocent' love. It's tenuous, fragile, painful. Her definition of love has forever been changed. Love is not a beautiful thing. It's agonizing! It's sacrificing & loosing self, its desperate, it's terrifying....it's in doubt & can be eroded.

 

I feel like I should have much stronger feelings of guilt...gut-wrenching guilt...but I don't. And I'm not sure how remorseful I am either.

 

"Back to the justifications! You've already done the unthinkable (& enjoyed it!) what's one more 'hit'? As long as you justify your actions, as long as you make excuses to continue you can't ALLOW yourself to feel these yucky feelings."

 

Is it wrong that I look back at my affair with fondness? Fond memories of the OW? Of lust? Of love? Seems to me that if I were truly remorseful I'd be sickened about the thought of the OW, about what I've done, and about how badly I've hurt my BW. What is wrong with me? I wish I felt those feelings.

 

"But you haven't really finished your affair. You're still in it!! You're feeding it, lusting, fantasizing so you can keep that door open for 'just one more hit' before you go cold turkey!"

 

Am I still in fog? Or a narcissist? Or does the lack of guilt mean I don't love my wife? Or all of the above?

 

"All of the above!! Of course you're not LOVING your wife. You're not loving anyone except yourself...oh that pesky guilt would damage that fragile ego that's being scaffolded by the "love" you think your wife & OW are feeling for you.

 

Of course you're a narcissist AND a sociopathic monster AND all the other awful things I could call you AT THE MOMENT. I'm not saying that you're doomed & your character is FOREVER broken.

 

I don't know! I'm guessing (after having a think about why your story triggers me so much.) What kind of man were you before all of this started? Have you always been fragile & in need of ego stroking to feel good about yourself?

 

I don't know if you were one of those men who coasted through life & women on your looks & charm? Were you (like my husband) the kind of man who had trouble 'getting the girl' through school & university? Are you loving this so much because for the first time ever you've got 2 women 'fighting' over you?

 

I'm truly interested....

 

(Sorry, using an iPad & the 'Bold' thing stopped working half way through my response)

[Mrs. John Adams]

Mrs Adams. Exactly! EXACTLY!!! Exactly!!! EXACTLY!!!

 

I NEED remorse. I WANT remorse. Only remorse will make me believe that it could NEVER happen again. I caught a glimpse of it once & it was the most amazing feeling in the world. My heart burst with love & joy for him, for us.

 

It was fleeting. I caught a glimpse out of the corner of my eye. The dream is gone. Distant ships, smoke on the horizon & all the other brilliant Pink Floyd stuff....

 

Brutal.

 

SL....For thirty years that is exactly what john said. If I did not truly understand...if i could not feel in my soul what i had done to him...then what kept me from ever doing it again?

 

He stayed for thirty years hoping to see what he wanted...yet he could not tell me what he was looking for. It was difficult for both of us...because he felt i should just be able to give him what he needed...instinctively i should know what it was.

 

Now...I don't know if i am dimwitted...or just so selfish that i could not for the life of me understand what he was looking for.

 

I said over and over and over I am sorry....and i sincerely meant it. But SORRY was not what he needed to hear....because SORRY did not address whether or not i understand how badly i had hurt him.

 

When we joined another forum...and I read the Macdonald book...it was like a light bulb went off in my head....I FINALLY understood....that even though I was deeply sorry...it did not address his fears...and i had said so many other things wrong. Once I understood what he needed...I became obsessive....I read everything i could find on the subject...I joined web sites looking for what i needed to do and how to do it....and we talked...OH MY GOD we TALKED....like we had never talked before....I was HUNGRY...I was PASSIONATE...I wanted to know everything...all of his feelings ....I delved deeply into myself....I wrote my story....i read and reread the lists of things that he had written about me. I searched like i have never searched before. I became completely and totally obsessed.

 

It took me several months....but I FINALLY got it...and one day i just knew....I knew what i had to do and what i had to say and I realized what remorse was and that i had finally achieved it.

 

I had to completely concentrate on him...what i had done to him...and remove me and my feelings and fears and hurts from the equation. I had to live in HIS pain to understand what i had done to him. It knocked me to my knees...I could feel his hurt....his disappointment....his fear...his devastation...all of it. and as i took all of it into my own heart....I also knew that i had done this to him....the person that i had professed to love ...vowed before God to be faithful to....I willingly and selfishly did this to him without once thinking about how i was killing him....

 

To say this changed me...is the understatement of a lifetime. I became a person I had never been....I became more compassionate...more understanding....more passionate for others.

 

And this is why I am here....I want to bring hope to those who have become hopeless. If I after thirty years could FINALLY get it...there have to be others like me. If i can just once touch a betrayed and let them know I truly understand....if i can encourage a wayward to keep searching and keep digging and keep working on themselves...then i feel like it is my destiny....to share and help others to obtain the goal much faster than i did. Thirty years is a lifetime....

 

Sadly...I have talked with so many waywards now...that I can tell pretty quickly where they are...and some will never get it. As long as a wayward is still blaming, talking about their own pain, talking about why they cheated etc... they cannot even begin to place themselves inside anyone else's pain. They are still in their own head.

 

And as long as a betrayed is still blaming themselves...and still allowing a wayward to drive the reconciliation....they will never demand that the wayward become selfless enough to understand remorse.

 

You will see me say often to betrayeds...TAKE BACK YOUR POWER. I know how hard that is to do....but until you ...your wayward will not grow toward remorse.

 

My husband lived in fear....until he became brave enough to tell me i was not giving him what he needed.

 

Are there waywards who will bolt when a betrayed does this? yes....and I hate to say this but good riddance. Because they are NEVER going to give you what you need.

 

So you as a betrayed...have to become brave enough and strong enough to take back your power and ask for what you need....

 

If you want your wayward...you have to be willing to risk losing them.

[Cephalopod]

Regret, guilt and shame are inwardly focused. Remorse is outwardly focused.

 

Remorse happens when you take your spouses pain into yourself and treat it as your own. Full empathy and sympathy...and doing all that you can in your power to facilitate your betrayed partner's healing, even if that means letting your spouse go.

[BTDT2012]

Is it wrong that I look back at my affair with fondness? Fond memories of the OW? Of lust? Of love? Seems to me that if I were truly remorseful I'd be sickened about the thought of the OW, about what I've done, and about how badly I've hurt my BW. What is wrong with me? I wish I felt those feelings. Am I still in fog? Or a narcissist? Or does the lack of guilt mean I don't love my wife? Or all of the above?

 

You are incredibly self-centered. I hope your BW gains the strength to walk away.

[ladydesigner]

But back to the original topic, I find myself having fleeting moments of guilt this past year about what I've done to my BW, but those are few and far between. I have put my BW through 2 d-days with the same affair and she still loves me. I feel like I should have much stronger feelings of guilt...gut-wrenching guilt...but I don't. And I'm not sure how remorseful I am either. Is it wrong that I look back at my affair with fondness? Fond memories of the OW? Of lust? Of love? Seems to me that if I were truly remorseful I'd be sickened about the thought of the OW, about what I've done, and about how badly I've hurt my BW. What is wrong with me? I wish I felt those feelings. Am I still in fog? Or a narcissist? Or does the lack of guilt mean I don't love my wife? Or all of the above?

 

You sound a lot like my (stbx)WH. I finally got to see something that looked like remorse when I decided to separate. You see my WH just thought I was going to keep letting it go and move on with life again after each mishap... nope... what happened is I finally felt indifferent to him after all these years of trying to get him to 'see'. He banked on me not being strong enough. Guess who got strong enough?

 

I would seriously find my backbone if I were you and start acting like a fellow human being. What you have put your wife through is sheer torture.

[RecentChange]

Uff, when I read your first post, I assumed that perhaps you had not yet had a D Day.... And was going to advise you that those feelings would come.

 

But I see your wife had been made aware of the affair. Well then - I suppose I question if you actually love your wife.

 

You see, kinda like AA I feel like I need to come forward and announce "I am a cheater". Before July 2015 I had never been a cheater, and since D Day, January 2016, I haven't been a cheater.

 

I came to LS, after my affair had started (but temporarily stopped) - and really didn't have any feelings of guilt, or shame, or regret. It was a simple PA, no claims of affection or anything else - we thought we were so smart with our controlled FWB arrangement.

 

Posters insisted that I must not love my husband, that my absence of guilt was a sure sign - but I did still love him, and I do still love him.

 

And I did end up having a much needed D-Day - and that is when I first felt remorse.

 

I hated how I made him feel. I hated what I caused him to think about himself. I hated the feelings of self doubt, anxiety, stress and sorrow I caused him.

 

You know, I have at times felt that perhaps I do have narissitic tendencies - and I can say for the first time I was disappointed in myself. For the first time I was speaking against myself, and I believed it - I couldn't believe what a total a$$ hole I had been.

 

I have never been publicly outed, and can't really say I ever felt shame. As for guilt - I don't know if I have felt that either, as perhaps I have a poor moral code.

 

But I do have remorse. I do feel utterly terrible for what I have done to him, and not a day goes by that I don't remind myself of that.

 

If I never had a D Day, I imagine I could have just carried on. But after facing the pain that I caused, I never ever want to cause that again.

 

Why don't you feel the same way? Do you not feel the pain you have caused your wife?

 

Edited to add.... As for the "fondness", I am a master compartmentalizer. I can feel sickened by destruction I have caused, but still have pleasant memories about the sex etc (goes back to shame and guilt vs. remorse I guess).

Edited January 18, 2017 by RecentChange

[Birdies]

ShatteredLady - you deserve true and heartfelt remorse after your experience. I'm so sorry you haven't gotten this. I know how important it is. I know the difference it made to my BH when I cried my eyes out for months over the pain I inflicted on him and did everything I could to make it better (which of course I couldn't) - even after we both knew we were better off splitting up. Big hugs ❤️❤️❤️ You deserve better.

 

OP - frankly I think you have some sociopathic tendencies in order to so easily dismiss the pain you've inflicted on your wife. For the love of God, either quit with the AP or divorce your wife. Jesus man! Have some ****ing empathy and mercy! For both of them!

[seren]

SL, that is one of the most powerful heartfelt, saddest posts I have eve read. I felt each and every one of the emotions you wrote about so well. I so hope you find your answers, I so hope your life ahead is all you want it to be, I also hope you can realise it was never about you. I know, it sure feels like it was, but the decision to have an affair is all on the WS and AP. I could never have an affair as I couldn't hurt another so completely for my own needs or desires.

My H feels such remorse for what the A did to me, I see it every day and it is a work in progress, I need him to forgive himself and move on, but it is very complicated.

 

Onwards and upwards SL, I am waiting for the day and hoping for the day that you can write that your husband gets it and that you know he feels remorseful. I wish you all the very best things xxx

 

 

As for the OP, a marriage isn't about I it is all about us, you really need to think about that, if you cannot always look at meeting your own needs, wants without considering how it impacts upon your wife, you should leave, leave and let her find someone who she can trust, who has her back, leave so you can continue on your path of self without hurting another along the way. Read over and over what SL has written and shared to answer your question and ask yourself if this is how you want it to be for your wife, finally get over yourself, try to look at how your actions can cause such hurt for the woman who has your back and loves you enough to forgive you twice. If you still feel nothing, then please be honest with her, leave, let her meet the man who will always think about her before himself. I suspect a tiny bit of remorse might finally set in then.

[Ronni_W]

I battle my morality...constantly. ... I just really want to be a better person....but right now I'm a liar and manipulator. I want some integrity back...some order and meaningfulness to my life.

calmb4thestorm,

You are the only person in the entire universe who has any power to change yourself and bring integrity and meaningfulness back into your life.

 

The excellent sign is that you already recognize that these are missing from within your own mind and heart. . Now, a positive next step would be to really drill down and determine why - and, to whom or what force - you have given away your power to change yourself. In truth and reality, there is no one else who - and nothing else which - has the responsibility and the authority over your own free will decisions and choices.

 

You seem to already recognize that, ultimately, what you have been choosing and how you have been deciding to live your life is detrimental and harmful - and is going to create a storm that you yourself are going to have to suffer through and endure until its bitter end.

 

This 'calm before the storm' that you are already perceiving, has lulled you into a false sense and deluded state of consciousness that somehow you can remain as if powerless and helpless to start changing things NOW. But, this is a lie and self-deception; for, you are NOT a victim of circumstances beyond your control; you are NOT a victim of urges, impulses and feelings over which you yourself - and you alone - do not have 100% control.

 

You CAN avoid the storm, and you CAN start making decisions and acting as the person with integrity and meaningfulness that you say you desire to be. Yes, YOU can!

 

(Have you read this short book by Linda J. MacDonald? It may very well offer additional insight that could prove most beneficial for your own long-term welfare and well-being.)

What does guilt or remorse (or lack thereof) say about someone...

That you think either you are above eventually having to come face-to-face with and endure the consequences of all your selfish and harmful actions, or that those consequences will not cause you as much suffering as, inevitably, they will.

[understand50]

All,

 

In the English language, Remorse means the following:

 

noun, deep and painful regret for wrongdoing; compunction.

 

So from a strictly literal grammatical point of view, remorse, is just a handy way of stating that you have regret, shame, guilt and so fourth for your actions. I think for us here, a larger meaning is evident. We have had many give their personal meaning from Mrs J.A, to Merrmeade, Shattered Lady, and others. Each has a take, and "knows" what this means, but in relating gives a twist.

 

Here is what I think, Remorse, true remorse, in the context of infidelity, or any action(s) that you have done to grievously wound your spouse, child or other family members, is the ability to look beyond yourself, your well being, and your own interests and feel the pain and hurt caused by your actions, and in so doing, begin to try and make things right to restore trust in an relationship. It is allowing the injured person to select what they need to heal, from you, and for you to supply it to the best of your understanding and ability. At it core, you place their needs above your own, and take on any discomfort, embarrassment, shame, security and loss of secrecy, that is needed to repair your and theirs relationship. You must lastly become an open book, and live mutually transparent with them.

 

Of course, there are limits. I would say, physical harm, or loss of human dignity should not be offered, or accepted, but the one who has trespassed, must be willing to put the other ahead of them in the relationship.

 

My two cents.