Gaslighting

[Tenacity]

I mentioned 'gaslighting' a week or so ago in a post, and noticed that someone commented on it.

 

Here is a great article on it: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/power-in-relationships/200905/are-you-being-gaslighted

 

This just describes what I went through to a T. I spent most of my time in the 'defense' (second) stage, as he constantly accused me of things that had no validity or truth so I felt the continued need to defend myself against it. Nothing was ever good enough.

 

We broke it off before spending much time in the third stage (depression), much of which has to do with the reaction and behavior of other people in your life towards this person and doesn't necessarily apply to an A. Although I was certainly depressed.

 

To this day, I'm not sure how much of this gaslighting behavior was because of the A or just because of him. But I think it was largely just because of him. So I don't know how much this applies to others, in all honesty. I don't think this would have gone any differently had it been a legitimate relationship and not an A. Most of what I really suffered from -- and what I have had such a hard time getting over -- were really related to this, and him, and not so much to the fact that it was an A.

 

I wish I could express how horrible it feels to not understand your own reality, and to not know whether behavior in your partner is real or valid or is just a manipulation. You literally lose yourself and any ability to judge. You don't even KNOW that you can't judge or that it may not be real... all of that perspective or ability to see it is just gone.

 

It's why -- for me -- the advice I have received from people who tell me "it's this way, just do it, and you have low self esteem" doesn't resonate. It's not about having low self-esteem. It's about someone else beating it down.

 

People don't understand this until they have lived it. I would never have dreamed I would be a victim of this.

[seren]

Tenacity, gaslighting is crap and it takes an age to figure out that you (general) aren't going mad. I used to ask myself, did I say or do that? puzzle over it and think I was going mad because I was sure, at one level, that I hadn't, but having the person you love and trust tell you that you did, sure is a dammed awful thing to live through.

 

It had me questioning every aspect of my life, including my job, where making decisions based upon my reasoining were, in some cases, life changing. I used to second guess myself, ask myself am I right? and from an assertive, known for being a troubleshooter type person, I recognised I was becoming lost.

 

I don't think the gaslighter's have any idea of how damaging it is and of how it can change a person's perception of themselves so much. For me, D Day was a, Thank God I am not crazy and I agree that knowing I wasn't, was a huge relief. I wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy. I hope you have recovered from the more damaging effects this can have on self belief, I am not too sure I have fully bounced back to the pre gaslighting me, but that might be no bad thing, sure won't be gaslit again.

[Tenacity]

Thank you seren... for this post and for all of your wonderful support.

 

You have no idea how great it felt to see your post and realize that someone else felt this too.

 

I used to defend myself for hours and days for something objective that I knew I didn't do... some part of myself thought at the time that this was ridiculous, I should just tell him off and leave this relationship, but I continued defending myself... and and eventually he would convince me somehow it was my fault. All of it was. I never did any of the things he accused me of. Yet, in the end I could no longer tell what was not my fault, or even sometimes what I did or didn't do.

[betterdeal]

How you react to such deceit is part of how it affects you. Many of us automatically believe someone we are fond of is therefore basically benign and honest, and that whatever gripe they have must have some grain of truth to it. That's why we strive to answer the allegations.

 

But sometimes people are dishonest or have messed up minds or are just plain wrong. Their allegations are theirs to own, not yours to answer to. Taking a step away from the specific and looking at the whole, you can see how much of the time you interact is enjoyable and how much is miserable. If it's erring towards chronic misery, ask yourself just how many of the limited number of hours you have on this Earth do you want to spend being miserable with this other person. Losing patience with them is a better response than trying to bend your reality constantly to suit theirs.

[Tenacity]

How you react to such deceit is part of how it affects you. Many of us automatically believe someone we are fond of is therefore basically benign and honest, and that whatever gripe they have must have some grain of truth to it. That's why we strive to answer the allegations.

 

But sometimes people are dishonest or have messed up minds or are just plain wrong. Their allegations are theirs to own, not yours to answer to. Taking a step away from the specific and looking at the whole, you can see how much of the time you interact is enjoyable and how much is miserable. If it's erring towards chronic misery, ask yourself just how many of the limited number of hours you have on this Earth do you want to spend being miserable with this other person. Losing patience with them is a better response than trying to bend your reality constantly to suit theirs.

 

Sorry, but the entire definition of this deceit is that it is done TO you, over time. You don't get a chance to "react" to it.

 

The point of this is that all of that ability to make 'decisions' and understand perspective and reality is completely lost.

 

I understand that people who have never experienced this don't get it. I'm looking for people who have.

[todreaminblue]

I mentioned 'gaslighting' a week or so ago in a post, and noticed that someone commented on it.

 

Here is a great article on it: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/power-in-relationships/200905/are-you-being-gaslighted

 

This just describes what I went through to a T. I spent most of my time in the 'defense' (second) stage, as he constantly accused me of things that had no validity or truth so I felt the continued need to defend myself against it. Nothing was ever good enough.

 

We broke it off before spending much time in the third stage (depression), much of which has to do with the reaction and behavior of other people in your life towards this person and doesn't necessarily apply to an A. Although I was certainly depressed.

 

To this day, I'm not sure how much of this gaslighting behavior was because of the A or just because of him. But I think it was largely just because of him. So I don't know how much this applies to others, in all honesty. I don't think this would have gone any differently had it been a legitimate relationship and not an A. Most of what I really suffered from -- and what I have had such a hard time getting over -- were really related to this, and him, and not so much to the fact that it was an A.

 

I wish I could express how horrible it feels to not understand your own reality, and to not know whether behavior in your partner is real or valid or is just a manipulation. You literally lose yourself and any ability to judge. You don't even KNOW that you can't judge or that it may not be real... all of that perspective or ability to see it is just gone.

 

It's why -- for me -- the advice I have received from people who tell me "it's this way, just do it, and you have low self esteem" doesn't resonate. It's not about having low self-esteem. It's about someone else beating it down.

 

People don't understand this until they have lived it. I would never have dreamed I would be a victim of this.

 

 

the fact is that many bad relationships have these sort of symptoms happening and psychology is just giving another name to relationships that are in trouble there are so any you can get gas lighted trying to figure out which one is you.....in your heart you know a relationship is bad and not right...what its called doesn't really matter...all that matter is you recognize that it is bad...giving it a name doesnt make the relationship any better or definable

 

Here is an example i can personally give

My ex used to come home from work about an hour or two before I would start to get anxious, uptight I would do my check list, l9ounge room clean kitchen clean vacuming done, our room tidy, animals fed dinner on kids not fighting, all is clear fro ex to come and relax.By the time he got home I was a nervous wreck making it perfect so he would possibly(note i said possibly) would not get pissed, my dinners were always perfect or I would start again I would be changed and dressed also waiting with twenty minutes to go with a sick feeling in my gut what have I forgotten trying to think makes me feel a little residual when i write that

 

 

now i know I was highly unreasonable on myself and when i started to suffer with extra stresses such as wayward teen my whole world backslid into some kind of night mare I lost control over everything and even simple goals and aims for the day were hard to achieve so i lived in a constant state of failure to succeed and feeling nauseous for a couple of months....until my ex left me sick and struggling for another

 

 

so in all, can i blame my ex fro gas lighting me or is it even gas lighting doesnt really matter. no I can not blame him or identify anything in him only myself, can I blame him really for leaving me in that state, he is only responsible for heartache and abandonment of his family.My ex is not responsible for behaviors that were already in me.Some times instead of reading psyche books and terminology it just helps to look within and see where you stuffed up do some talk therapy, and grow from your experience and learn from others experiences.I have a problem with labels.You get more concerned about what label is on the tin than what is inside the tin.That is all you inside that tin that is the most important thing ever ....no disorder condition or label will help you determine how you need to change because everyone is different we cant be labelled.The inside wont change regardless of what label you give it and also who is to say what label is true.Many labels say exactly the same thing give you a different method for dealing with it...........deb

[seren]

I think it is maybe a chicken and egg situation, if the person you have always known to be honest and upfront begins to say something and you question, to be told, no, that's not how it is. The first few times you might challenge that, but gaslighting has a drip, drip effect. It is the constant, often small things that cause the self doubt. I liken it to trying to grab gas, you know it is there, but try getting a handle on it, is all but impossible.

 

Most people base their experience or reality on how things are, for people in a relationship where truth and honesty has been the underpinning, to suddenly ask this or that and being told repeatedly that is not how it is, you begin to have self doubt. I speak as someone who is known IRL as being very assertive, no crap taken and challenging, but also caring. To be drip dripped from a person I knew for such a long time to be honest, that how I saw things was not right made me question myself. That it was able to have such an effect is more a testimony to my belief in the person than any underlying problems with perception.

 

The chicken and egg effect comes into being when you (again general) absorb the drip, drip effect and then have self doubt. It isn't about people pleasing, it is more, IMHO about having blind faith and trust.

The clock watching and wanting everything to be perfect is one of the reasons most Women's Refuges don't have clocks on the wall, as many women escaping domestic violence and or abuse fall into clock watching to ensure all is perfect when the husband comes home. I cannot say that was even a factor of my experience of gaslighting, more the questioning of things said. Interesting thread.

[buckeyeblue]

My H gaslit so much I started to wonder which one of us was living in reality! I think the worst was when I found out that he told the OW that we were separated when they met. We were never separated (until now - I left him)! He at first tried to tell me that the OW must have "misunderstood". Then he tried to convince me that we were separated at the time. I guess he thought I was so beat down that he could rewrite our entire lives and I would just believe it!!! There were so many episodes where he would deny evidence that I found first-hand and would call me crazy. He would try to make me feel like I was just paranoid. You DO start to question your own judgement.

[Got it]

todreaminblue - I am not sure how your example is gaslighting. What you describe is most definitely not a healthy state of mind to be in but it doesn't seem to involve your husband lying to you.

 

Gaslighting is very hard to deal with when anyone does it! I am sure we have all had that friend or family member who will just lie and tell stories for no reason. You question everything that is said. It is one thing to have it at this level, where it is more arm's length, compound that with someone who's life is intertwine with you. There are children who grow up with a parent(s) that do this and they deal with many issues as they get older.

 

Sorry Tenacity for what you went through. Hopefully the one silver lining of all of it is that your perception of your life, thoughts, truths, etc. are solidified and prioritized now and no one can cause you to question it.

[Crusoe]

Have to say, the gaslighting from my ex was one of the toughest things I've had to face and overcome in life. Before her I was known as being a seriously clued up fella, nothing bothered me, nothing phased me and was one of the most positive minded people you could meet. Everywhere I went and everything I did I always seemed to end up as the man in charge. By the time ex has had finished with me I was jumping at my own shadow. Didn't know fact from fiction, didn't know who could be trusted and was doubting my own sanity.

 

I didn't even realise what had been happening until the end when the truth started to come out. By then she had her mother and best friend in on the act aswell. "You're sick Crusoe", "You're imagining things Crusoe", "You need therapy, Crusoe". By then I had also been isolated from all my old friends as they knew about her cheating. She fed me lies about all of them, and them lies about me, just to keep us all apart. I was constantly being told I had said things I hadn't said, done things I hadn't done. I also later found out she was spiking my food with laxatives to keep me housebound on the days she wanted to see her other fella, at the time I was wondering what the hell was wrong with me.

 

It's all so subtle you have no reason to suspect anything and it's once the truth starts to come out that the real crazymaking starts. She would do or say anything to keep people from discovering the truth, neighbours were crossing the street to ignore me, I was getting death threats from stangers in the middle of the night, friends were refusing to speak to me and all the time you're wondering what the hell is going on. To me she was being all sweetness and light, just telling me I was sick and needed help. Later I found out she was telling everyone I was beating and raping her. By the time the police threw me in a cell there were so many people in on it that I was seriously wondering if I was blacking out and having episodes that I couldn't remember. I kept telling myself that I knew I wasn't, I could account for every minute of every day, but with three people constantly telling me I was sick in the head I was beginning to believe it.

 

It wasn't until her father and eldest brother discovered what was going on and told the police the truth that I realised just how twisted she was. It's such a shock it's still hard to believe. Her father then explained that the mother was just as bad and that was the reason why he had to leave the country all those years ago. A few days later her best friend also came forward to admit it was all lies. Then all my old mates got in touch to tell the truth. All the same, I reckon it took a good 5 years to get back to what I once, 7 years of lies takes time to sift through. Must admit, even now there are rare occasions where something causes me to do a double take. Kind of like knowing you switched the oven off but just have to go back and check it is actually off. That was never in me before.

 

Gaslighting is unforgivable as far as I am concerned, the lowest of the low, purposeful cruelty. It really is like slowly poisoning someones food to make them ill. You don't know it's happening, not even when you're puking your guts up, you just think there's something wrong with you.

[Decorative]

Tenacity, gaslighting is crap and it takes an age to figure out that you (general) aren't going mad. I used to ask myself, did I say or do that? puzzle over it and think I was going mad because I was sure, at one level, that I hadn't, but having the person you love and trust tell you that you did, sure is a dammed awful thing to live through.

 

It had me questioning every aspect of my life, including my job, where making decisions based upon my reasoining were, in some cases, life changing. I used to second guess myself, ask myself am I right? and from an assertive, known for being a troubleshooter type person, I recognised I was becoming lost.

 

I don't think the gaslighter's have any idea of how damaging it is and of how it can change a person's perception of themselves so much. For me, D Day was a, Thank God I am not crazy and I agree that knowing I wasn't, was a huge relief. I wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy. I hope you have recovered from the more damaging effects this can have on self belief, I am not too sure I have fully bounced back to the pre gaslighting me, but that might be no bad thing, sure won't be gaslit again.

 

Exactly right.

 

DDay was a relief of sorts. Because I knew my instincts were okay. And that I could have trusted myself all along. And was going to be able from that point forward.

 

I don't want gaslighting to happen to anyone. It was awful.

[promises]

Tenacity:

 

Non naive and non needy people with healthy self esteem are not susceptible to gaslighting.

 

 

I thought that this has been a healthy dialog of understanding Gaslighting and how it develops. I know that I have appreciated it very much.

 

I would rather be naive than the person who corruptly influences another person slowly and deliberately.

[Crusoe]

Tenacity:

 

Non naive and non needy people with healthy self esteem are not susceptible to gaslighting.

 

Rubbish.

 

Say you have a wife and dog. You come home from work one day to find dog mess on the floor. You ask your wife if she walked the dog. She says she did and that the dog did it's business. You consider it strange as the dog has never messed on the floor before.

 

You come home the next day and the same thing happens. Your wife insists she walked the dog yet there is mess on the floor. What's the first thing you think? That your wife is a devious, scheming, liar? or that the dog might be ill?

 

If you wonder that the dog might be ill then you're already being lit up. Your perception on reality is being altered by lies. It's neither naive or needy to wonder if the dog is ill, or to spend money and time taking it to the vet. Yet, whilst you take it to the vet your wife is banging your neighbour. Not only that, the real reason she didn't walk it is because she was banging your neighbour. She manipulated you out the house in order to suit her wants. You aren't naive and needy, you just aren't paranoid or insecure enough to suspect foul play.

 

This is how it starts.

 

A few weeks later she catches a bus into town to do some shopping, you promise to pick her in up 3 hours time. 3 hours later you can't find your car keys. Where the hell are they? You know you left them on the sideboard. Maybe the dog knocked them off, maybe you left them in the ignition, maybe they fell out your pocket, maybe the kids moved them, you don't know. Last thing you suspect is that your wife purposefully took them with her. You call her and say you will be late. She says that's fine, not to worry and that she will catch the bus home. You think "hey, good girl, my ex would have b*tched at me for that". She just bought an extra hour with her other fella.

 

When she comes home she helps you look for the keys and you find them in the kids toy box. You remind the kids not to play with the keys.

 

Things like this go on and on and maybe you get suspicious. You confront her and she denies anything is wrong. She cries, tells you she is concerned about you, says she has noticed your forgetfullness lately and suggests you see a doctor. You're a reasonable man, secure in yourself and have never been the jealous or suspicious type. You've always listened to your wife and considered her point of view. You're not getting any younger and you can't deny that slightly strange things have been happening. You mumble that you will keep an eye on things and if you keep misplacing things you will go see someone.

 

Time passes, tactics change. "Do you remember you promised to take the kids to the seaside today?" Hang on, no you didn't. "Yes, you did darling, remember when you were busy with your paperwork 3 weeks ago and Tommy kept asking to go?" Yeah but you didn't say he could. "Well, whether you said it or not he is expecting to be taken, you can't let him down". You take him and spend all the drive wondering if maybe you did agree without paying attention.

 

And so it goes on. Subtle, devious little lies from the person you love and trust. One day your Mum calls, she's concerned about your forgetfulness. You insist you are fine but wonder why someone else has noticed it. Your kids start to rib you and tie a bright orange lanyard to your keys as a joke. You begin to notice the normal everyday things that all of us forget from time to time that are nothing to do with your wife's deceit. They become a bigger deal. "Damn, I forgot something yet again, what's wrong with me?"

Edited December 23, 2012 by Crusoe

[Tenacity]

Tenacity:

 

Non naive and non needy people with healthy self esteem are not susceptible to gaslighting.

 

And with this statement you have just completely invalidated everything I said as well as everything all the other posters relayed about their own experiences. You have turned it around to blame the person who was gaslighted instead of the manipulator, saying that it's their fault they were in this situation to begin with.

 

Do you have any idea how destructive and damaging that statement is? It's like telling a victim of physical abuse that they were at fault and somehow "invited" the abuse.

 

There is a difference between being "naive" and "trusting". If being naive means that you should not trust the person you love and that you are so paranoid and suspicious that you would dismiss more likely explanations for these behaviors than to believe your partner is deliberately screwing with your mind - then call it naive if you will. These action are not overt or obvious to hit anyone in the face - that is the entire point of it. The "drip- drip" effect over time. Most people trust the person they love in a relationship -- that's the way it's supposed to be.

 

I would suggest that you read more on the topic, because you don't have to read very much to verify that ANYONE is vulnerable to being gaslit by someone they love and trust. Anyone. It has nothing to do with "self esteem"... actually, the fact that it does not is the very definition of it.

 

You seem to think that lack of self-esteem is the explanation to everything. You are entitled to your opinions, but I am asking you to please in the future not post to me and tell me I lack self-esteem. If you have said this to me once, you have said it a dozen times, and I'm not dense so I got it the first time. Your opinion is noted. There is no need to keep repeating it, and I would prefer you stop.

[Tenacity]

Rubbish.

 

Say you have a wife and dog. You come home from work one day to find dog mess on the floor. You ask your wife if she walked the dog. She says she did and that the dog did it's business. You consider it strange as the dog has never messed on the floor before.

 

You come home the next day and the same thing happens. Your wife insists she walked the dog yet there is mess on the floor. What's the first thing you think? That your wife is a devious, scheming, liar? or that the dog might be ill?

 

If you wonder that the dog might be ill then you're already being lit up. Your perception on reality is being altered by lies. It's neither naive or needy to wonder if the dog is ill, or to spend money and time taking it to the vet. Yet, whilst you take it to the vet your wife is banging your neighbour. Not only that, the real reason she didn't walk it is because she was banging your neighbour. She manipulated you out the house in order to suit her wants. You aren't naive and needy, you just aren't paranoid or insecure enough to suspect foul play.

 

This is how it starts.

 

A few weeks later she catches a bus into town to do some shopping, you promise to pick her in up 3 hours time. 3 hours later you can't find your car keys. Where the hell are they? You know you left them on the sideboard. Maybe the dog knocked them off, maybe you left them in the ignition, maybe they fell out your pocket, maybe the kids moved them, you don't know. Last thing you suspect is that your wife purposefully took them with her. You call her and say you will be late. She says that's fine, not to worry and that she will catch the bus home. You think "hey, good girl, my ex would have b*tched at me for that". She just bought an extra hour with her other fella.

 

When she comes home she helps you look for the keys and you find them in the kids toy box. You remind the kids not to play with the keys.

 

Things like this go on and on and maybe you get suspicious. You confront her and she denies anything is wrong. She cries, tells you she is concerned about you, says she has noticed your forgetfullness lately and suggests you see a doctor. You're a reasonable man, secure in yourself and have never been the jealous or suspicious type. You've always listened to your wife and considered her point of view. You're not getting any younger and you can't deny that slightly strange things have been happening. You mumble that you will keep an eye on things and if you keep misplacing things you will go see someone.

 

Time passes, tactics change. "Do you remember you promised to take the kids to the seaside today?" Hang on, no you didn't. "Yes, you did darling, remember when you were busy with your paperwork 3 weeks ago and Tommy kept asking to go?" Yeah but you didn't say he could. "Well, whether you said it or not he is expecting to be taken, you can't let him down". You take him and spend all the drive wondering if maybe you did agree without paying attention.

 

And so it goes on. Subtle, devious little lies from the person you love and trust. One day your Mum calls, she's concerned about your forgetfulness. You insist you are fine but wonder why someone else has noticed it. Your kids start to rib you and tie a bright orange lanyard to your keys as a joke. You begin to notice the normal everyday things that all of us forget from time to time that are nothing to do with your wife's deceit. They become a bigger deal. "Damn, I forgot something yet again, what's wrong with me?"

 

This is a fantastic post. Thank you, thank you for explaining this so well and for understanding.

 

Thanks to everyone else who were supportive and posted their own experiences.

[Decorative]

Tenacity:

 

Non naive and non needy people with healthy self esteem are not susceptible to gaslighting.

 

That is not true.

 

Wow.

[Got it]

Tenacity:

 

Non naive and non needy people with healthy self esteem are not susceptible to gaslighting.

 

How do you surmise this assumption? What evidence can you cite to support your claims?

[promises]

I'd like to add something.

 

I actually felt this happening. It was a conscious feeling of, "HUH? WAIT? THAT CAN'T BE.."

 

Followed by.. "There is no way a human could be that deliberate and calculated, you'd have to be cruel."

 

Followed by, "It must be sincere and I might be taking him wrong because no one would be so calculated.."

 

Followed by, "Rinse and Repeat over and over again.."

 

Followed by my current state of feeling totally nuts and trying to figure out what the F just went down.

[skywriter]

Some of the threads on here and dealing with xMMs more recent shenanigans.... it occurs to me that in some (not all) situations the MP is gaslighting the OP.

 

For those BS who read this board I am not saying it excuses me or any other OW, but it would explain to some extent why we may believe certain things or why certain people may be moved to react in ways that in a normal situation would defy belief. yes some people are more vulnerable to gaslighting than others and it doesnt explain every situation but it does explain some of it.

 

Looking at it from this perspective may be helpful not that the OP is a victim but to be aware of the sorts of behavior that can pull you in or keep you tied to a situation when you might otherwise run for the hills without a second thought.

 

If you see it for what it is, then you can respond differently.

 

Or maybe I am making more of it than it is maybe it just bigtime manipulation spiced with deception.

 

I wondered what other people thought.

 

 

Tenacity,

 

you don't have to prove anything to anyone and your feelings are valid for what you experienced.

 

You aren't alone in your experience.

[Tenacity]

Alice, this is the last thing I'll say on the subject, or to you at all... but I hope that one day you come to understand that if you want someone to hear you, really listen to you, and rationally discuss something you have said, you need to drastically change your approach.

 

To the others -- I have learned a lot from this thread. From those of you who posted from the BS perspective with such respect, I thank you - I will admit that most of my thinking about this has frequently been from the more selfish perspective of how it affected ME. While I always try to understand as much as possible how A's affect the BS - because I hate and regret the pain that I caused - I honestly didn't think it through in this way before. Just thinking about the fact that the BS was gaslighted while not being aware of the A - just makes me ill. To think that my ex-MM did that to me but also to HER at the same time is horrible. And yes, it was horrible that he did it to me, but I was there by choice. The BS's reality was being defined by her without her even knowing it. It is the true definition of gaslighting.

[Tenacity]

I'd like to add something.

 

I actually felt this happening. It was a conscious feeling of, "HUH? WAIT? THAT CAN'T BE.."

 

Followed by.. "There is no way a human could be that deliberate and calculated, you'd have to be cruel."

 

Followed by, "It must be sincere and I might be taking him wrong because no one would be so calculated.."

 

Followed by, "Rinse and Repeat over and over again.."

 

Followed by my current state of feeling totally nuts and trying to figure out what the F just went down.

 

That's the "defensive" phase. I drove myself crazy in it. Like I was running around in constant circles of conversation, trying to convince him I wasn't crazy was making ME crazy.

[Tenacity]

Some of the threads on here and dealing with xMMs more recent shenanigans.... it occurs to me that in some (not all) situations the MP is gaslighting the OP.

 

For those BS who read this board I am not saying it excuses me or any other OW, but it would explain to some extent why we may believe certain things or why certain people may be moved to react in ways that in a normal situation would defy belief. yes some people are more vulnerable to gaslighting than others and it doesnt explain every situation but it does explain some of it.

 

Looking at it from this perspective may be helpful not that the OP is a victim but to be aware of the sorts of behavior that can pull you in or keep you tied to a situation when you might otherwise run for the hills without a second thought.

 

If you see it for what it is, then you can respond differently.

 

Or maybe I am making more of it than it is maybe it just bigtime manipulation spiced with deception.

 

I wondered what other people thought.

 

 

Tenacity,

 

you don't have to prove anything to anyone and your feelings are valid for what you experienced.

 

You aren't alone in your experience.

 

Thank you.

 

I agree with you. My intent in posting this was not to be a victim, but to let others read that article and see if they could find themselves in it. It's really hard to see while in it. I don't believe there is anything wrong with trusting someone you love - I do believe that some people don't deserve that trust, and maybe bad choices led to it.

[betterdeal]

Sorry, but the entire definition of this deceit is that it is done TO you, over time. You don't get a chance to "react" to it.

 

The point of this is that all of that ability to make 'decisions' and understand perspective and reality is completely lost.

 

I understand that people who have never experienced this don't get it. I'm looking for people who have.

 

I assure you, it's happened to me and I wanted to share with you the solution that worked for me going forward, making it much less likely to happen again. That's all.

[promises]

Just thinking about the fact that the BS was gaslighted while not being aware of the A - just makes me ill. To think that my ex-MM did that to me but also to HER at the same time is horrible. And yes, it was horrible that he did it to me, but I was there by choice. The BS's reality was being defined by her without her even knowing it. It is the true definition of gaslighting.

 

This is so true. I'm in a phase of not liking things about her, but, sometimes I think that she is the way she is because she's been treated like this for so long. She sent me a very telling text a while back before I blocked her that basically listed all the things that I 'didn't' know about him that weren't so great.

 

My immediate human reaction (if she'd been a friend) was, 'GET OUT.'

My second thought was, 'is she in a very strange way reaching out to someone she can actually relate to???' Why is she telling me these things..

 

I never responded. I think about that text a lot, though. Think about what she must be going through now.

[waterwoman]

For me, D Day was a, Thank God I am not crazy and I agree that knowing I wasn't, was a huge relief.

 

YES! Yes yes yes. Everything clicked into place. Thing is he wasn't even doing it on purpose. But he was seeing me and our life differently and subconsciously gaslighting me.

 

Getting over it is another thing. I have zero self-esteem now. I burst into tears earlier today when I realised we were going to visit a friend on the 30th - she and her H are the most together and energetic people I know. I can't face them. H did that to me. Makes me so angry.

 

You have my sympathy tenacity x