The bread crumbs are getting stale

[Forceawakensme]

Well guys -- Not sure if i should start another thread as i havn't posted in a while and thought i'd give everyone an update.

 

I didn't post because i started back up again w MM and was frankly, embarrassed and felt weak that i couldn't maintain NC.

 

He basically broke NC after maintaining it himself pretty staunchly for six weeks i saw him at a large event of a mutual friend. I was polite toward him but circulated with other friends etc. He ignored me most of the night until the end where he followed me to the bathroom and stopped me and said 'i cant do this.. i miserable.. every single day, you're all i think about". We went outside and talked the entire night. I broke down with an immediate case of the "awws" and said "I miss you so much".

 

After that we left discreetly together and it was a big love fest the rest of the night. He told me im the only woman hes ever loved..and he wants to be with me after his kids go to school in a couple of years etc --- *I* did not say i wanted to be with him because frankly, ive read on here enough to know the future faking tendencies of MM so i didn't want to stoke the fire. It was all his doing. He told me im his ultimate fantasy woman and perfect in every way and while he 'loves' his wife, hes not in love with her the way he is with me (yes .. i know, yada yada... cliche speech)..

 

Anyway -- After that night (three weeks ago) he has consistently come on pretty strong and i was cool with him. Though i did notice that he wasn't doing the i love yous.. just sexual talk.

 

We planned to see eachother for a night this week in two days time (we only ever saw eachother once a month and the rest was email -- thats been our MO for 2.5 years of the A).

 

Anyway, he has been all excited about this upcoming night.

 

He went away with his wife this weekend and wrote me the entire weekend, which he never does when hes with her -- usually i dont hear from him when hes with her. Especially as they were on a vacation just the two of them.

 

Anyway, his emails were all sexual, no lovey dovey stuff like the nights we'd seen eachother. Anyway, he asked to come over today briefly to drop some stuff over for me that he wants me to dress up in for this night (hes into dressing up.. nothing crazy, i like it too, always have anyway -) --- When he came over we had a quickie --- But he was sober.. and quite formal..not the loving way hes been the last times in person...Though it was morning and a work day and we usually get together at night w drinks etc.. Hes always been a bit of a nervous guy when hes sober compared to his confidence after a few wines but i really noticed it today.

 

We had the quickie.. Then he was getting dressed to go and said he looked forward to seeing me on the night we planned this week.

 

Then i said "can i ask something.. why do i feel a lack of affection from yo utoday... can i just get some reassurance that im not the only one with feelings here"? (yes needy.. pathetic blah blah -- but knowing that i couldn't see him this week if its just sexual -- that does nothing for me whatsoever).

 

He said "yes".. I have feelings. " i said, are you sure?". He said "Look im stone cold sober now..but i mean nobody is leaving their spouses soon.. we talk a good game when we're drunk but lets be realistic.. .though i very much cannot wait to see you and wouldn't be here or making risky plans if i didn't want to see you very very much".

 

Ugh.. Is it just me or was that a condescending.. 'get back in your box, you're obviously just a sex toy" speech? ...

 

I asked him to leave. He said "oh great, your'e going to analyze the eff out of that one comment now arn't you"... He left after we politely but luke warmly said our goodbyes.

 

Then i wrote an email immediately saying this isn't going to work. Thank you for the lovely memories but i need affection / feelings in order to have this relationship. Its not about wanting a future with you -- i dont have any expectations with that whatsoever (which is true) -- but i dont like feeling like im pushing for affection. I told him there was something 'off' about him today compared to last time. I said i need to take a step back (so in essence, breaking our plans for this week that he is excited about).

 

He read it (saw receipt) and didn't respond. I think hes mad at me.

 

I feel weirdly numb. Depressed of course.. but i stand by what i said that i dont want to continue this A if i get a FWB vibe from him whenever hes not Tipsy. I dont want a guy who has to be drunk in order to say ILY etc.

 

Anyway guys, thanks for letting me vent. IM ashamed to just be going around and around. I can say i am not hurt in the same ways as before, i guess after that NC period i did put up a wall to protect myself somewhat -- I think ... Lets see how i am in the coming days.. i'll probably hurt more. Hopefully im not back to square one again:(

Edited March 14, 2016 by Forceawakensme

[Josmatjes]

Well guys -- Not sure if i should start another thread as i havn't posted in a while and thought i'd give everyone an update.

 

I didn't post because i started back up again w MM and was frankly, embarrassed and felt weak that i couldn't maintain NC.

 

He basically broke NC after maintaining it himself pretty staunchly for six weeks i saw him at a large event of a mutual friend. I was polite toward him but circulated with other friends etc. He ignored me most of the night until the end where he followed me to the bathroom and stopped me and said 'i cant do this.. i miserable.. every single day, you're all i think about". We went outside and talked the entire night. I broke down with an immediate case of the "awws" and said "I miss you so much".

 

After that we left discreetly together and it was a big love fest the rest of the night. He told me im the only woman hes ever loved..and he wants to be with me after his kids go to school in a couple of years etc --- *I* did not say i wanted to be with him because frankly, ive read on here enough to know the future faking tendencies of MM so i didn't want to stoke the fire. It was all his doing. He told me im his ultimate fantasy woman and perfect in every way and while he 'loves' his wife, hes not in love with her the way he is with me (yes .. i know, yada yada... cliche speech)..

 

Anyway -- After that night (three weeks ago) he has consistently come on pretty strong and i was cool with him. Though i did notice that he wasn't doing the i love yous.. just sexual talk.

 

We planned to see eachother for a night this week in two days time (we only ever saw eachother once a month and the rest was email -- thats been our MO for 2.5 years of the A).

 

Anyway, he has been all excited about this upcoming night.

 

He went away with his wife this weekend and wrote me the entire weekend, which he never does when hes with her -- usually i dont hear from him when hes with her. Especially as they were on a vacation just the two of them.

 

Anyway, his emails were all sexual, no lovey dovey stuff like the nights we'd seen eachother. Anyway, he asked to come over today briefly to drop some stuff over for me that he wants me to dress up in for this night (hes into dressing up.. nothing crazy, i like it too, always have anyway -) --- When he came over we had a quickie --- But he was sober.. and quite formal..not the loving way hes been the last times in person...Though it was morning and a work day and we usually get together at night w drinks etc.. Hes always been a bit of a nervous guy when hes sober compared to his confidence after a few wines but i really noticed it today.

 

We had the quickie.. Then he was getting dressed to go and said he looked forward to seeing me on the night we planned this week.

 

Then i said "can i ask something.. why do i feel a lack of affection from yo utoday... can i just get some reassurance that im not the only one with feelings here"? (yes needy.. pathetic blah blah -- but knowing that i couldn't see him this week if its just sexual -- that does nothing for me whatsoever).

 

He said "yes".. I have feelings. " i said, are you sure?". He said "Look im stone cold sober now..but i mean nobody is leaving their spouses soon.. we talk a good game when we're drunk but lets be realistic.. .though i very much cannot wait to see you and wouldn't be here or making risky plans if i didn't want to see you very very much".

 

Ugh.. Is it just me or was that a condescending.. 'get back in your box, you're obviously just a sex toy" speech? ...

 

I asked him to leave. He said "oh great, your'e going to analyze the eff out of that one comment now arn't you"... He left after we politely but luke warmly said our goodbyes.

 

Then i wrote an email immediately saying this isn't going to work. Thank you for the lovely memories but i need affection / feelings in order to have this relationship. Its not about wanting a future with you -- i dont have any expectations with that whatsoever (which is true) -- but i dont like feeling like im pushing for affection. I told him there was something 'off' about him today compared to last time. I said i need to take a step back (so in essence, breaking our plans for this week that he is excited about).

 

He read it (saw receipt) and didn't respond. I think hes mad at me.

 

I feel weirdly numb. Depressed of course.. but i stand by what i said that i dont want to continue this A if i get a FWB vibe from him whenever hes not Tipsy. I dont want a guy who has to be drunk in order to say ILY etc.

 

Anyway guys, thanks for letting me vent. IM ashamed to just be going around and around. I can say i am not hurt in the same ways as before, i guess after that NC period i did put up a wall to protect myself somewhat -- I think ... Lets see how i am in the coming days.. i'll probably hurt more. Hopefully im not back to square one again:(

 

Wow! Good for you!! I can't imagine how hard that was. My Xmm did the same to me only a few weeks ago, a million I love you'd and whatnot, then only sex talk and then the creme de la creme... He asked me to wait on the side for him while he stays married... Obviously I , like you, walked. You know once the spell is broken the first time you just can't go back. Your mm was trying to recapture something but now it's not enough for you! You need more! Stay with no contact and steer clear of him. Good luck and (((hugs)))

[Adoraxx]

Well guys -- Not sure if i should start another thread as i havn't posted in a while and thought i'd give everyone an update.

 

I didn't post because i started back up again w MM and was frankly, embarrassed and felt weak that i couldn't maintain NC.

 

He basically broke NC after maintaining it himself pretty staunchly for six weeks i saw him at a large event of a mutual friend. I was polite toward him but circulated with other friends etc. He ignored me most of the night until the end where he followed me to the bathroom and stopped me and said 'i cant do this.. i miserable.. every single day, you're all i think about". We went outside and talked the entire night. I broke down with an immediate case of the "awws" and said "I miss you so much".

 

After that we left discreetly together and it was a big love fest the rest of the night. He told me im the only woman hes ever loved..and he wants to be with me after his kids go to school in a couple of years etc --- *I* did not say i wanted to be with him because frankly, ive read on here enough to know the future faking tendencies of MM so i didn't want to stoke the fire. It was all his doing. He told me im his ultimate fantasy woman and perfect in every way and while he 'loves' his wife, hes not in love with her the way he is with me (yes .. i know, yada yada... cliche speech)..

 

Anyway -- After that night (three weeks ago) he has consistently come on pretty strong and i was cool with him. Though i did notice that he wasn't doing the i love yous.. just sexual talk.

 

We planned to see eachother for a night this week in two days time (we only ever saw eachother once a month and the rest was email -- thats been our MO for 2.5 years of the A).

 

Anyway, he has been all excited about this upcoming night.

 

He went away with his wife this weekend and wrote me the entire weekend, which he never does when hes with her -- usually i dont hear from him when hes with her. Especially as they were on a vacation just the two of them.

 

Anyway, his emails were all sexual, no lovey dovey stuff like the nights we'd seen eachother. Anyway, he asked to come over today briefly to drop some stuff over for me that he wants me to dress up in for this night (hes into dressing up.. nothing crazy, i like it too, always have anyway -) --- When he came over we had a quickie --- But he was sober.. and quite formal..not the loving way hes been the last times in person...Though it was morning and a work day and we usually get together at night w drinks etc.. Hes always been a bit of a nervous guy when hes sober compared to his confidence after a few wines but i really noticed it today.

 

We had the quickie.. Then he was getting dressed to go and said he looked forward to seeing me on the night we planned this week.

 

Then i said "can i ask something.. why do i feel a lack of affection from yo utoday... can i just get some reassurance that im not the only one with feelings here"? (yes needy.. pathetic blah blah -- but knowing that i couldn't see him this week if its just sexual -- that does nothing for me whatsoever).

 

He said "yes".. I have feelings. " i said, are you sure?". He said "Look im stone cold sober now..but i mean nobody is leaving their spouses soon.. we talk a good game when we're drunk but lets be realistic.. .though i very much cannot wait to see you and wouldn't be here or making risky plans if i didn't want to see you very very much".

 

Ugh.. Is it just me or was that a condescending.. 'get back in your box, you're obviously just a sex toy" speech? ...

 

I asked him to leave. He said "oh great, your'e going to analyze the eff out of that one comment now arn't you"... He left after we politely but luke warmly said our goodbyes.

 

Then i wrote an email immediately saying this isn't going to work. Thank you for the lovely memories but i need affection / feelings in order to have this relationship. Its not about wanting a future with you -- i dont have any expectations with that whatsoever (which is true) -- but i dont like feeling like im pushing for affection. I told him there was something 'off' about him today compared to last time. I said i need to take a step back (so in essence, breaking our plans for this week that he is excited about).

 

He read it (saw receipt) and didn't respond. I think hes mad at me.

 

I feel weirdly numb. Depressed of course.. but i stand by what i said that i dont want to continue this A if i get a FWB vibe from him whenever hes not Tipsy. I dont want a guy who has to be drunk in order to say ILY etc.

 

Anyway guys, thanks for letting me vent. IM ashamed to just be going around and around. I can say i am not hurt in the same ways as before, i guess after that NC period i did put up a wall to protect myself somewhat -- I think ... Lets see how i am in the coming days.. i'll probably hurt more. Hopefully im not back to square one again:(

 

Well done!! You did really great with telling him that you can't do this and that you need feelings to be involved. 'Funny' isn't it, how you can tell when things are 'off' with him... I always noticed right away when he started to act different/ off again even if he denied it. How long was the NC before this time? And how long was the A? I don't think you're back to square one again ; this might even help you to move on even faster.

 

Hugs!!! And be proud of yourself for not letting him use you!!!

[Satu]

Well done for seeing the reality behind the fantasy he'd like you to believe in.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Satu

[elaine567]

Anyway, he asked to come over today briefly to drop some stuff over for me that he wants me to dress up in for this night (hes into dressing up.. nothing crazy, i like it too, always have anyway

 

As an aside, that is probably all part of his fantasy world too.

He is not having sex with YOU, just some dressed up woman - a sex object.

By dressing you up, it dehumanises you.

The quickie was the real you, so may explain some of the discomfort that was palpable in the room.

[sandylee1]

That's the problem with getting back in the A..... it feels all new and exciting again... until you realise it's ALL about the sex for him. He might return and ramp up the affection....and really try his hardest... then he'll slip back into treating you as the little mistress.

 

He's not going anywhere in 2 years time...if he was serious about leaving he'd do it now. Does he really see the both of you in an honest open relationship? Who knows ...but you shouldn't have to guess.

[Grey Cloud]

I think once you have had a break then go back it truly is never the same. You are less willing to accept the crumbs. You would have started to do some healing in that 6 weeks and therefore more able to tell him what you do and do not want. I had to laugh when you wrote "nobody is leaving their spouses....". I must have heard that line every month of the a!

 

I think you are stronger than you realise.

[BuddyX]

Be strong.

Continue NC. That includes No Emails. Not even Goodbye emails.

Remember, his way of thinking; "You were put on this earth to wait for me. Wait, while I figure out my Sh*t"

 

Move on. You can do better

[jenkins95]

Well done Force - so proud of you!

 

In the early days of NC, it is normal to have slip ups, so don't worry. I had a few and many, many other posters did too. It may have done some short term damage, but it's par for the course. Put this behind you and NEVER communicate with him ever again. Please! For your own sanity.

 

He showed his true colours with lines like "nobody is leaving their spouses soon" and all his direct sexual stuff in his emails with no sweet, loving talk or asking how you are, etc. It just shows that is super horny and sees you primarily as a sex object.

 

If you had gone ahead with the meeting, it's fairly obvious that it would have been nothing more than a mammoth sex session lacking in emotional intimacy. Sure, it may have been fun, but you clearly need more than this and I'm sure that you would have felt sad, cheap, used and devastated sitting alone afterwards while he rushed back to wifey getting his excuses ready in his head for why he is late. As a former cheater MM myself who relates to what is likely going on in his mind, I smile smugly to myself at how totally gutted and frustrated he will be that you ruined his dirty plans. He thought that you were a sure thing and that he could just click his fingers and you would come running! I guess he'll have to dust off those old porn videos to entertain himself instead

 

Well done Force. I know it wasn't easy, but you've shown him that you are not going to be taken for a mug any more and that crumbs can no longer satisfy you. You need either the whole the thing or nothing, and since he isn't "going anywhere soon" regarding his marriage, then you are right to walk away.

 

You deserve SOOOOO much better that his crumbs. Please, please, please never give him the time of day again!

 

Come here when you feel like contacting him - we're here for you.

[Popsicle]

I'm sure he hates himself. Not just because of what he did but because A's make these guys turn into someone else, like an entirely different person that he doesn't even recognize or like himself, and this makes them cranky. That is just the nature of A's and it's very confusing and uncomfortable for everyone. This is his response to not being able to control his feelings, it makes them grumpy. It really is best to just end it and stay NC no matter what, even if you miss each other.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Popsicle

[Forceawakensme]

oh everyone thank you so much for replying.. I REALLY needed some support.. feeling sad and blah tonight --- I am in a meeting but going to spend evening reading these responses thoroughly as i know they'll be chicken soup for my soul... So grateful for Loveshack... thank you all for being so kind.

[Forceawakensme]

Well done for seeing the reality behind the fantasy he'd like you to believe in.

 

I can say its 100% because of my reading loveshack.. . its like this time around i went back in with my eyes open..

 

Of course i did open my heart again a few weeks back when he was all loving .. and i was hopeful that it meant something so of course it hurt today when i felt the shift back -- but im grateful that i didn't take months of denying the shift

 

 

Im also grateful that i can read the responses to my post here and be assured im not crazy because i swear he looked at me like i was torturing him putting him on the spot with such an uncomfortable line of questioning..

 

He hasn't responded though so i dont know if he just thinks im crazy neurotic or if he simply doesn't know how to say .what i imagine him thinking: . " i dont want to be lovey dovey with you when im sober ok??.. it makes me feel guilty toward my wife and highlights that this is more than FWB. I know you dont just want FWB but it helps me to think of it like this because then im a big studly dude who gets laid.. .. but if this is some sort of love relationship then im a prick who is in a true love affair which may be digging himself a big emotional hole and a potential bunny boiler OW who might think im going to leave my marriage and ultimately tell my wife"

[jenkins95]

Hi Force!

 

Sorry I was a bit cutting with my initial response! I am a reformed cheater and so when I see someone posting about an MM acting like I used to act, it's almost like it gives me an opportunity to attack the old, cheating me!

 

I'm sure he's not all bad and that there was genuine love and not just the sexual stuff. But he's made his long term intentions clear and it is clearly now time for you to move on - as you have so brilliantly realised and demonstrated in your actions and your posts!

 

You definitely deserve a big Jenks hug (((Force)))

 

Know that we are proud of you and that we recognise that when your heart is involved it is VERY difficult to make the right decision sometimes, even if it seems obvious to everyone else. But you did it girl!

 

A bright, exciting, wonderful future lies ahead!!!!

 

oh everyone thank you so much for replying.. I REALLY needed some support.. feeling sad and blah tonight --- I am in a meeting but going to spend evening reading these responses thoroughly as i know they'll be chicken soup for my soul... So grateful for Loveshack... thank you all for being so kind.

[Forceawakensme]

Hi Force!

 

Sorry I was a bit cutting with my initial response! I am a reformed cheater and so when I see someone posting about an MM acting like I used to act, it's almost like it gives me an opportunity to attack the old, cheating me!

 

I'm sure he's not all bad and that there was genuine love and not just the sexual stuff. But he's made his long term intentions clear and it is clearly now time for you to move on - as you have so brilliantly realised and demonstrated in your actions and your posts!

 

You definitely deserve a big Jenks hug (((Force)))

 

Know that we are proud of you and that we recognise that when your heart is involved it is VERY difficult to make the right decision sometimes, even if it seems obvious to everyone else. But you did it girl!

 

A bright, exciting, wonderful future lies ahead!!!!

 

No way Jenkins.. i LOVED your response... It spoke straight to me. I already decided to re-read your response over and over to ensure i dont get weak and fall for any last minute 'i love yous' in an order to get me back in. I mean, i have to think rationally -- If he did love me.. he wouldn't have been cold today .. he wouldn't have been able to help himself but be affectionate.. obviously the other times he was faking and today was the real him.

[jenkins95]

No way Jenkins.. i LOVED your response... It spoke straight to me. I already decided to re-read your response over and over to ensure i dont get weak and fall for any last minute 'i love yous' in an order to get me back in. I mean, i have to think rationally -- If he did love me.. he wouldn't have been cold today .. he wouldn't have been able to help himself but be affectionate.. obviously the other times he was faking and today was the real him.

 

Great!!!! That's the spirit Force!!! In that case I apologise about my apology !!! lol

 

You really are showing yourself to be strong and in the right place mentally. I know that deep down you may be full of hurt, uncertainty and doubt, but your strength and resolve shines through in your posts! I love to see posts with genuine hope and strength in them like yours - in the face of such adversity and pain - please keep to it. The posts where people are completely devastated and seemingly without hope are so heart-breaking.

 

Yes, very sensible to desensitise yourself to any last minute "I love yous". Us MM will resort to almost anything to get what we want when we see our OW slipping away, and many learn just how powerful those three little words are over their OW, and may use them in a last dash emergency! Well done for immunising yourself to that particular attack, Force! You re great!!

[LivingWaterPlease]

His behavior with you would be, to me, a real turn-off, forever. That type behavior would have killed any attraction I'd ever had for him, whether he was single, married, or even a husband of mine. He sounds like a jerk. Haven't read your other posts about him but it seems to me you can do better than this with just about anyone else you may get involved with.

 

Bet he's the same way with his W. People are who they are basically with everyone they interact with.

[Adoraxx]

LOL Jenkins @ the MM dusting off the old porn videos... haha I had a vision of my xMM scrambling through his closets trying to find one of those. Although he'd probably google some.

 

Anyway, I wanted to ask you something regarding this:

 

Yes, very sensible to desensitise yourself to any last minute "I love yous". Us MM will resort to almost anything to get what we want when we see our OW slipping away, and many learn just how powerful those three little words are over their OW, and may use them in a last dash emergency!

 

Have you ever said 'I love you' to your OW without really meaning it, Jenkins? After doing lots of thinking, I have come to the conclusion that my xMM said those words to me without really meaning it. He only said it because he wanted something from me (sex) and he knew I liked to hear it.

 

Have you ever said or have you ever heard someone say : "I want what I want when I want it" ? Apparently my xMM lied to get what he wanted (although I started to believe the lie less and less because his words didn't match with his actions ... but still, words are powerful and it's what caused me to have lots and lots of cognitive dissonance)

 

Adoraxx

[Forceawakensme]

LOL Jenkins @ the MM dusting off the old porn videos... haha I had a vision of my xMM scrambling through his closets trying to find one of those. Although he'd probably google some.

 

Anyway, I wanted to ask you something regarding this:

 

 

 

Have you ever said 'I love you' to your OW without really meaning it, Jenkins? After doing lots of thinking, I have come to the conclusion that my xMM said those words to me without really meaning it. He only said it because he wanted something from me (sex) and he knew I liked to hear it.

 

Have you ever said or have you ever heard someone say : "I want what I want when I want it" ? Apparently my xMM lied to get what he wanted (although I started to believe the lie less and less because his words didn't match with his actions ... but still, words are powerful and it's what caused me to have lots and lots of cognitive dissonance)

 

Adoraxx

 

Great question Adoraxx -- I would like to know this too Jenkins.. I mean you seem a lot lovelier than the garden variety xMM or MM but your view still helps.

 

I would like to know if they feel it in the moment.. ( i know they're all different) -- My MM is VERY hesitant to say it but when he does its like a lid coming off a bottle and he doesn't stop ... (but that could because hes popped his guilt cherry in the moment... sort of like 'well ive gone and said it to her so i may as well lay it on thick') -- OR perhaps he *thinks* he means it.. (of course he doesn't.. because his jerky actions speak otherwise)

[jenkins95]

LOL Jenkins @ the MM dusting off the old porn videos... haha I had a vision of my xMM scrambling through his closets trying to find one of those. Although he'd probably google some.

Yes, I'm showing my age mentioning "videos"! Not that I have a stash of dodgy VHS tapes under my bed - honest

 

Have you ever said 'I love you' to your OW without really meaning it, Jenkins? After doing lots of thinking, I have come to the conclusion that my xMM said those words to me without really meaning it. He only said it because he wanted something from me (sex) and he knew I liked to hear it.

 

This issue is something I have thought a lot about since contributing to other threads. Perhaps, if you could have time, you could read my post on this thread. It is post number 83: -

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/572441-nc-day-1-overwhelmed-anxiety-6.html#post6815162

 

I categorically never said 'I love you' to my OW without meaning it. Despite my light-hearted post earlier, I think that few MM use it purely as a tool to get what they want without meaning it. That would be truly despicable even by affair standards to simply robotically manipulate the OW with words purely to get what they wanted without meaning it. Perhaps it happens, but it must surely be rare. I think an MM who did that would have to be a. Very intelligent (in a sinister way), b. A psychopathic narcissist and c. A very good actor. I honestly think eventually it would be easy to see through if you really got to know him.

 

I did tell my OW many times that I loved her, and she told me. I said it because I meant it, but I now see how selfish and irresponsible it was to do so. You see, to me, saying I love you was just an expression of my extreme happiness in that moment. I truly did love her, but for me, that didn't change the fact that I would never leave my marriage. I said that clearly right at the start (as did she about her BF), setting the rules, and it was like that gave me licence to say whatever I wanted, as the rules had been set down early and were understood. In other words, it gave me licence to compartmentalise - and we all know that men tend to be better than women at that, and I seemed to do it pretty well - until it all hit the fan

 

Please read my further thoughts on this on the thread I mentioned above - I go into that a bit deeper there.

 

The bottom line in my case is this: I told her I loved her because I truly did love her and was so happy in that moment and just wanted to express my joy, enjoy it and enjoy her reaction. BUT, this was said very much in the context of the "affair bubble" and to me carried no implication that it changed the fact that I didn't want to leave my marriage. But I think for her, repeated use of I love you led her to believe that the original rules had changed. Stupidly, after the very early days, we simply didn't talk about "rules" and the boring serious stuff - it was so much more fun just to allow ourselves to fall deeper and deeper into our fog, in our little bubble. Only when the bubble burst through discovery and D-day, and we had to make quick decisions, did we suddenly come to realise that our expectations and mutual understanding of what was in each other's head was a long way off. Using the 'L' word in my case did cause a lot of hurt, but it was NEVER uttered as a complete lie. To be honest, part of me will love her for the rest of my life.

 

Have you ever said or have you ever heard someone say : "I want what I want when I want it" ? Apparently my xMM lied to get what he wanted (although I started to believe the lie less and less because his words didn't match with his actions ... but still, words are powerful and it's what caused me to have lots and lots of cognitive dissonance)

 

Adoraxx

 

So Adoraxx, you are saying that he said he loved you as a pure lie to manipulate you? As I said above, this could be possible, but to me it would take a very clever, cold individual to pull off something like that and convince you so completely. Perhaps he did mean it, but he knew when to turn it on and produce those words when he wanted something. i.e. even though he did love you, unlike me he didn't say those words whenever he felt like it. Instead, he held them back, knew their power and used them when he wanted to manipulate you - i.e. he really meant it, but he also knew it's power and when best to use it?

Edited March 14, 2016 by jenkins95

[Forceawakensme]

Jenkins, thank you! so grateful for your generous share.

 

its wonderful to get your perspective. Can i ask if you future faked with your OW at all?

[Forceawakensme]

another question i have is .. I sent the 'this isn't going to work' email in two parts.. the first part he read (which gave him the gist) and i saw a receipt that he had clicked and read -- What is strange is, he never clicked on the second email to read it despite the fact they came in at the same time -- it was just a one line PS.. but he wouldn't know that because he didn't click on it to see.. I mean my curiosity would get to me if i was him what else i may have added.... but its like he was either so mad that he didn't want to keep reading OR he just really didn't give a crap .(ie 'blah blah female boring stuff.. if im not going to get laid then im not going to bother clicking)

 

I know its a small thing but its really bothered me i guess.. makes me think.. wow he didn't care that much...

Edited March 14, 2016 by Forceawakensme

[jenkins95]

Great question Adoraxx -- I would like to know this too Jenkins.. I mean you seem a lot lovelier than the garden variety xMM or MM but your view still helps.

 

That's lovely of you to say Force - really sweet of you. But the thing is I was just as much of a POS MM cheater as all of them. Although I am reformed now! As I've said in various posts, from what I've read, I would appear to fir the description of the "typical" "average" MM cheater who had a stereotypical affair with a predictable timeline, chain of events and result.

 

I think what may make me seem different is simply that I find a lot of comfort coming here and expressing myself in words, unlike most MM. Coming here and posting, venting, etc seems typically much more of a female reaction from what I can see, whilst most MM are off licking their wounds in silence - is that fair?

 

I would like to know if they feel it in the moment.. ( i know they're all different) -- My MM is VERY hesitant to say it but when he does its like a lid coming off a bottle and he doesn't stop ... (but that could because hes popped his guilt cherry in the moment... sort of like 'well ive gone and said it to her so i may as well lay it on thick') -- OR perhaps he *thinks* he means it.. (of course he doesn't.. because his jerky actions speak otherwise)

 

I relate to this and I hesitated at first, but to me, once I popped that guilt cherry once (I LOVE that expression Force!), I never had to pop it again. After I had said it the first time, there was no stopping me! As I said, I think if they say it, they probably mean it, but they may hold themselves back because they are not as naive as I was and know that it may create unrealistic expectations. You mentioned that he often says it when he is drunk - well, that is a sign. Alcohol releases inhibitions and lowers guards and barriers. It often provides a more realistic view of what they are really thinking. Then when he is sober, reality kicks in, he regrets saying it, and acts a bit cold. But that doesn't mean that he didn't mean it - just that his sensible head is back on again (if there is such a thing regarding an MM in an affair!)

 

Keep posting guys - this is a really good thread!

[jenkins95]

Jenkins, thank you! so grateful for your generous share.

 

its wonderful to get your perspective. Can i ask if you future faked with your OW at all?

 

Hi Force - it's a pleasure. All this is just as helpful to me in understanding myself, how I got into an affair and why I acted the way I did.

 

I never future faked with words. I said categorically at the beginning of my affair that I never wanted to leave my wife and kids, and she also appeared to be very protective of her then BF (who ended up being a casualty of our selfishness later on). For me, having set out that rule, and taking confidence in the fact that she seemed to take the same position, I felt like I had licence to use an "anything goes" attitude and that our initial talk served as an unwritten "contract" that would remain unless we explicitly changed it with a later conversation i.e. we already established that we are not leaving, therefore, in that context and with that well and truly established and set in stone, I can say I love you to my hearts content and she will take it purely as an expression of my love and joy and not an implication that I want to leave my marriage.

 

Even though, I maintain that I never future faked with words, I very much regret that we didn't have regular "what do we both want out of this" type conversations (did/do any of you guys have these regular discussions in your As?). We never really did after the first few days - we were just too busy having fun and enjoying ourselves. You see, as I said in my previous posts, even though I never said in words that I would leave my family, my actions and liberal use of "I love you" led her to believe that that initial rule was now null and void.

 

When her BF discovered and left her, she made it very clear that's he wanted me all to herself - and that's when we started to realise how far off we each were in our impression of what the other's thinking and overall expectations were. I was so in the fog at that stage, that I did actually consider leaving. I agonised over it for weeks, but deep inside I knew I never could. How I cringe with shame now at how selfish and naive I was.

Edited March 14, 2016 by jenkins95

[Popsicle]

Jenkies is getting bombarded with OW questions. Lol.

 

Jenkies, I specifically have one for you too, if you don't mind: what makes a man think that he can just "click his fingers" (as you phrased it above) and have a woman at his beck and call for sex or anything for that matter? Does he do that because that is how he wishes it to be (this is my guess)?

Or, does he do that because he is used to getting everything he wants from women all the time, no matter how he acts (which would mostly be his wife)?

[jenkins95]

another question i have is .. I sent the 'this isn't going to work' email in two parts.. the first part he read (which gave him the gist) and i saw a receipt that he had clicked and read -- What is strange is, he never clicked on the second email to read it despite the fact they came in at the same time -- it was just a one line PS.. but he wouldn't know that because he didn't click on it to see.. I mean my curiosity would get to me if i was him what else i may have added.... but its like he was either so mad that he didn't want to keep reading OR he just really didn't give a crap .(ie 'blah blah female boring stuff.. if im not going to get laid then im not going to bother clicking)

 

I know its a small thing but its really bothered me i guess.. makes me think.. wow he didn't care that much...

 

Yes, one of those little things that plays with your minds. How we analyse every little thing they say, and move they make (or don't make in this case!). We do it to, us MMs!

 

Let the geek in me speak now! Depending on which email program he uses, sometimes if the body of the email literally is just one line, it is possible to read it without physically opening it (in the same way that you can see the subject line without opening the email). So it's possible that he could see your little PS, but knew that in opening it, he would be sending you a read receipt, and wanted to play with your head a bit and not give you the satisfaction of letting you see that he's read it. The geek continues - some email programs allow you to switch off the sending of receipts. So again, maybe he did this for the same reasons and to keep you guessing. He feels p***ed off that you ruined his sexy plans, so it's a very small piece of revenge.

 

If it was me, there's no way I wouldn't have read it! I'd have been checking my emails every 30 seconds to see if you had sent any! And if he really was looking forward to a massive steamy sex session with you, he just wouldn't allow himself to miss out on the possibility that your second email simply said "Oh what the hell, let's forget all this silly business and just meet for a long night of no strings sex - bring all the uniforms you want!" I've been an MM in his situation and I know how "hopeful" and unrealistic your mind can become when you're in that fog!

 

Force, I'm sure he's read it, one way or another! Unless he was so upset what he left the office early, in which case he will catch up with it tomorrow I guess. Oh, but you said that they arrived at the same time anyway?