It CAN happen to you...Long again

Remorseful, are you still around? Any chance you have the private messaging function enabled?

I think Remorseful was too close to the forest to see the trees...and temptation wasn't her biggest problem.

In this story of Jane (combining a couple of different threads started on the subject) she went to college and got her masters, got married, and began a job at McD. She started as a fry cook while her husband went into "watermelon" farming. She loved him and he loved her and, even though they didn't have a lot of money, their love and all they had in common was enough to enjoy their lives together. She rose through the corportate ranks to achieve a top spot in her field while her husband continued to work hard in the fields as a "watermelon" farmer. They were blessed with two children, acquired a beautiful home, and lead a seemingly happy and contented life. She's asserted, however, that she no longer connects well with her husband because whenever she "tries" to initiate conversation to talk about her interests or issues she ends up talking down to him when his responses seem so stupid she has to her roll her eyes. She maintains that, currently, she more or less ignores him in favor of her own pursuits.

Reading between the lines, I see that Jane has become somewhat arrogant and snobbish in her scholastic and professional accomplishments because her job is important and she knows she is the envy of her colleagues. She now looks down her nose at what her husband does for a living and is resentful and embarrassed by him as he no longer fits into her "ILK". Conversely, her husband has felt a growing resentment emanating from Jane and, to keep the peace, refrains from initiating or engaging conversation with her by keeping all conversations short or by zoning out in front of the TV in the hopes that she'll just go away. He's also sought relief from the palpable tension he's experiencing within the household by scampering off to "hunt buffalo" as soon as the last watermelon harvest is in. This has been their marriage life for some time now while they've continued to grow apart.

Jane, however, is beginning to feel lonely and deprived of affection but, even though she is surrounded by many male colleagues and even has a male as a best friend (besides her husband?), she has never acted on any "frissions of interest" she's experienced with any of them. She loves her job because of its importance and she loves her children but she could really care less about her husband by now. She wouldn't risk her job or hurt her children though by foolishly having a meaningless affair with some underling or someone who works within her location so she plods on living a life of "quiet desparatiion".....Arguably a cause of her own making.

Out of town on one business trip, however, she met and maintained close contact with a married man OF HER OWN ILK with whom she experienced a strong and tingly "frission of interest". Although she refrained from acting on her impulse to inappropriately connect with this new man, she still ponders all the "what ifs" and "I wonder" games and scenarios as fantasies of a new and wonderful future with him. The main obstacle preventing her from exploring or confronting this issue is the absence of knowledge or validation regarding these feelings by the MM.

Lo and behold, MM contacts her and so a "relationship/friendship" begins. Although she'd like other posters to believe that she never entertained the notion of an affair at the onset of their communications, we all know that her growing "frission of interest", developed during their intitial meeting, propelled her intrigue during most of her communications with this MM causing her to wonder "what is he's really thinking and how does he really feel about me". To her credit, she played the game of coy patience very well (a game most southern women know, after all "we learn how to flirt before learning how to drink tea from a cup") until he revealed his true feelings for her.

Jane would like to vainly cling to the notion that this journey started innocently by communicating on work related issues but her flirty temperment, snobbish attitude expressed towards her husband, and strengthening "romantic interest" maintained throughout her contact with MM leads me to believe that she has been a knowing and willing participant in her dance toward this affair long before actual feelings were ever disclosed by either one of them.

Jane's argument of being blindsided by an affair becomes superfluous when an admittedly growing "frission of interest" underwrote her actions and motivations early enough to provide her with ample warning of her own feelings.

Wowsa....

Hmmm.

Remorseful, I absolutely loved your post - loved it! You are such an excellent writer, and I very much admire your skill and creativity! What an excellent post. I don't intend to highjack this thread, but I really think you would be able to provide some clarity or guidance to my situation.

The same exact thing happend to me - as with John and Jane. Almost exactly - my M was a client - over a two year period we talked almost everyday ... saw each other often, and established this great "friendship" under the protective guise of a colleagues. It became very involved, and my this past fall, I realized that I was in an Emotional Affair. At that point, we had been seeing each other almost every day. I am single, and he is married with a 2 and 4 year old. During the course of this "friendship" it became known to me that he and his wife, who he had been married to for 5 years - had a horrible relationship; abusive, actually - but I won't bore anyone with those details. Anyway, I became aware that this relationship was preventing me from meeting other men, because I just loved being with him so much - we had so much in common, and are really a lot alike.

I struggled with this, and went to see a therapist. In November, we had some sort of work disagreement (prompted by me), because I think subconsiously I knew this couldn't continue. So, we didn't speak for three months .... until January .... We got together as "friends" and he explained to me that he was very hurt because within the context of my business issue, he thought that I was just friends with him because of my work ... and he was crushed ... how could she spend all this time with me? I thought she really cared for me ...but it was about the business all along! That is WHY he got upset with me ... he was confused, and now was starting to question the nature of our involvement ... I explained to him, that I was having a hard time back then because I recognized that we were having an EA - that it was never about the business, and how unhealthy it was for me/us. Now that this boundary had been crossed, we became even closer ... which led to ... the actual affair!

I was very distraught, but at this point, we had both confessed that we were in love with each other ... and I tried to push him away. Back and forth ... for three months... in the midst of all this, I switched jobs, and he was no longer a client ... so, now he was even more determined to come up with a reason, any reason, for us to stay close. There was none! He kept saying that we were such great friends, let's do that again - but I knew we were not just friends, and that if he had problems at home, they were his to fix ... and that my job was to take care of myself and move on with my life.

Which brings us to the end of March, when I finally cut it off ... (there were some emotional outbursts and rollercoaster events leading up to that - now the real fun had begun) (kidding). Which brings us to this week ... I know that I cannot see him, but there was no real "falling out" ... we spoke briefly on Wednesday morning, and I was fine ... I have been doing other things, and not focusing on it ... then, on Wednesday night, he insists that he has to see me ... I tell him I am going to the gym (there now actually) and then have to come home and get ready for a dinner .... long story short, although I told him I could not see him, when I got home he was waiting on my doorstep. I looked at him, and said "I am not happy about this". He said he would sit there and wait for me to come back down and then he could drop me off ... anyway, we end up kissing and holding hands - now the cycle starts - I am so happy to see him. I am glowing from head to toe. I have a fabulous time at my dinner ... feel wonderful. Am thinking about him, can't wait to talk to him again ... come home that night and send him two text messages, he leaves a message on my machine ...

The next morning, all hell breaks loose ... I have a complete emotional breakdown ... all of the feelings and emotions come pouring out of me .. and I am distraught ... He can't really talk much at work ... but I talk to him three times during the day ... I feel upset now, and don't know what to do - he came back like that ...what now? I basically lost control of my emotions ... I even saw him that afternoon for coffee ... then later that day called him crying because I knew that we couldn't be friends, and that I was still in love with him, and that it would not go away ... that I met someone (well, I have been dating), and know that I cannot move on with my life and find someone new, who I could be with in a healthy way, with him in the picture ... anyway, he agrees now, and sees how this is hurting me ...

.. Also, he did talk to a lawyer last week, but is careful not to tell me too much about it ... he says he doesn't want me to be in a position where I am waiting for him (which I would never do anyway)... he doesn't understand why we can't just be friends (he legitimate way of holding on to me while he sorts this out or not)... so, the bottom line is this: here I am, getting over this again. I told him I would not be contacting him, because clearly, this isn't good for him either, but that if he wanted to in a couple of months or so, that might be OK... anyway...

... I am very sad .. because I truly believe he is in love with me ... but the jury is really still out ... I think that if he is in love with me enough, and that if he really wants a healthy life ... he will sort this out on his own and come back to me when he is available ... and, if not, he never loved me enough, or was a complete martyr ... (right now he is having financial difficulty and all of the other cliche things we hear about ... but everyone has problems sometime or another ... I cannot except any excuses.... )

... So, do you think there is a chance this M may come back for me legitimately? This is my last night of mourning this --- I promised myself that tomorrow, a new Chapter in my life begins without him or any of these thoughts! (I indend to work hard at focusing on myself) ... but, I don't know much about these situations ... is there hope? I am still going to continue ... I am just very sad right now ... I am also upset for having such an emotional outburst ... I knew that would push him away (which is what I really need right now) ... so I wasn't walking on egg shells .. I let it out exactly how it felt and let the chips fall where they may...

.. .any insight would be greatly appreciated. I am having a hard time accepting this, even though I believe I am taking the right action - all of the uncertainty, lost love, confusion - I am just very hurt - I know I will move on ... I just know it! But, do these situations ever turn into happily ever after ...? Or, is this just not a possibility in the future .. I don't plan on staying in contact with him under these circumstances.

Thank you for listening, and thank you for posting this wonderful thread. It was really brilliantly written! And brought some levity and laughter to a very daunting and stressful topic.

It just irks me when people say "It can happen to you" because that makes it sound like people have no control over their actions. Or that it is some kind of disease you can catch or something:rolleyes:. I know myself and my limits and boundaries and I know infidelity is something I would never allow myself to be a part of.

 

That is just me.

The fact that you know yourself and know your limits probably will ensure that you never engage in an affair. The problem is that most people do not know their own limits.

Never say never is an axiom because most people who say they will never do something end up doing it. They become overconfident with their own assuredness and then do the very thing they said they wouldn't do.

Like you, I never will have an affair, but unfortunately, I came to learn my limits the hard way, by overextending them. I have only praise for people who haven't had to learn about their bad side by exercising it.

Yes, I can and actually do hold my head up high ... each and everyday. I reconize that I am human, that I made a mistake ... and then try to dig deep into the underlying issues that caused this transgression - how did I end up doing something I never thought I would do? And, how do I make sure that I never do it again? People fall in love, and yes, while we are responsible for our own actions, we are also responsible with how we deal with our mistakes. I never once asked this M to leave his wife ... I actually refused to talk about his situation, and ended the affair once it started ... and we, like John and Jane, were friends for years ... and, if you recall, Remoreseful never finished the story ... remember? It goes on and on ... If you read research on Emotional Affairs it will tell you the period of time from when it starts to a kiss could take years ... and the time from the first kiss to actually infidelity is relatively brief....

If you read the research on Emotional Affairs, you will realize that Jane is not better for not consumating the relationship (if that is in fact what happened) ... rather, emotional affairs are even more damaging to a marraige than a physical affair ... that they take away from the emotional bonds that support a marraige, that they betraying spouse is shares a feeling and bond that crosses the line, and result in a betrayal of the marraige ... whereas a physical affair, is purely physical. The danger with EA is that they often lead to physical affairs, and the combination of those two - close emotional intimacy and physical intimacy are more likely to result in the termination of a marraige.

This site is supposed to be support for the Other Man/Woman ... and I don't see how your comments and judgment of me are constructive ... in my opinion, both types of affairs are equally as bad ... one is not better than the other (Unless, of course, you are the type of person who intentionally goes after someone else's husband with the intent and forethought of destroying a marraige - that is a different animal all together) ...

So, can I sleep at night for making a mistake? Yes ... Do I regret making the mistake? Yes ... Can I hold my head up? Absolutely ... Am I hurt and distraught right now? Yes ... Do I think I am responsible for putting myself in a position to feel this way? Yes ... Do I think I deserve to feel this way? Absolutely NOT.

.. So, thank you for bashing me ... for telling me how, in YOUR opinion Jane is little Ms. Saint did nothing wrong compared to me - that is truly ridiculous, and has made me completely realize that I have no reason to feel badly about what happened ... and has actually made me more confident in moving forward. Thank you soooo much

xxoo:D

First of all, I am not TRYING to defend myself ... I am simply replying to your assault ..... You were/are offensive.

Secondly, I am not disgusting, quite the opposite, actually ....

And, everyone's situation is different ... granted, anyone who has engaged in this activity ever ...emotional or otherwise, has clearly made a mistake and is at fault. Generally speaking, it's all wrong ....

You are not going to change the world or the fact that people make mistakes by going around and bashing people who have committed this misdeed and are tying to work through the issues of why they did it, and how they can prevent a situation from happening like this every again.

Of course, it's confusing - for everyone, and hurtful and devastating ... I don't think I am foolish for feeling confused and lost regarding the matter - quite the opposite actually ...

But I am going to tell you one thing - I certainly don't think that you are right to assault me - at all.

You may have been on the other side before (I am assuming), and I am sure that you have been hurt by someone who had done this to you - I certainly feel sorry that happened to you. But, I don't know your situatuion - and you don't know mine, or his or the BS.

Anyway, none of what I did is correct ... I came here for support ... not because I think I am "cool" as you put it ...because I need support, and am confused and hurt ... and, I honeslty thought this forum was here for that purpose ... so that people could work through it and understand ....

... If you read the introductions to this board, the moderators state its purpose ... and also comment how this is not the place for bashing those who have been involved in this type of situatuion ... so, if you don't have anything constructive to add to here ... (on the O/W site - "the Other Side of the Story") ... other than generally hurling insults and calling people disgusting, perhaps this is not the right forum for you. There are other venues on this side for people who have been in your situation ... but, I don't see how coming here and bashing us is going to help you or anyone, quite frankly.

Wowsa....

 

Hmmm.

Its hard to get past me! LOL!

Wait a minute...I hope you replied to my post!:confused:

First of all, I am not TRYING to defend myself ... I am simply replying to your assault ..... You were/are offensive.

<tj>Biffster, you're a newbie so don't have PMs yet, so forgive the t/j but just to point out the "alert us" button under the post. You might want to use that on occasions when certain posters pick fights to distract themselves from the throbbing pain inside their own heads. Engaging them on the thread is seldom productive - usually it escalates into a flame war with infractions all round, so better just to alert the mods and leave it to them to reassert the code of conduct.

Save your energy for interacting with people who can benefit, and from whom you can benefit in turn! </tj>

OW - thank you for the suggestion, you are correct. Would you happen to have any advice re: my situation specifically ... I am feeling like a lost soul right now. It never got to the point where I am not going to be able to get out of bed for days - thank God ... which is why we ended it ...

There was nowhere to go but down from there .... the last thing I need right now is to keep myself in a situation where I would ultimately get torn to shreds - this hurts enough ... and he has too much on his plate to handle the fact that I couldn't handle it .. .and I wasn't about to deny my own feelings for the sake of keeping the peace ... also, even if I could handle it .. hypothetically speaking - he is truly not the type of man who philanders around ... he has those two small children to literally take care of ... his wife is extremely abusive ... he is having financial difficulty and needs to get his work back on track before he loses the house ... he is young, and in no position at work to be talking on the phone all day ...

.. when we worked together, it was a different story - we had a "reason" to stay connected ... but now that is behind us, and he simply doesn't have the type of lifestyle anyway which would allow him all of this free time, etc., He needs to take care of his situation, and I need to take care of mine .. we are not in this together because we are not together ...

It's just so damm sad ... I took the advice from an 85 year old woman yesterday who volunteers on a health and wellness chat room .. she advised me to mark my calenrder for Sept. 30 - and by that date, the situation will have resolved itself, and no longer be an issue for me ...

I thought that was good advice ... to take one day at a time for now, knowing that by a certain date in the not too distant future, this really all will be firmly behind me - one way or another ...

.. so, at this point, I am trying to do just that ... have hope that I will heal and move forward positively ... by staying away from the situation, and engaging in other activities ...

... i just got back from a two hour walk with a friend of mine - we went to the park ... and I have to admit I feel a lot better for that ... the fresh air, talking, walking ... with a friend who is my age ... stable ... no drama type person ... I think that if I keep staying around good people and forcing myself to do things, that eventually I won't have to force myself, and life will be flowing, and stable again ...

... I am also looking for a job right now ... I was laid off in February ... (probably why I was more vulnerable to the transition from an EA to a physical one in the first place) ... and that has been tough going ... the market is horrible right now, and things are v. slow ... I worked in finance ...

... I think the best thing for me to do right now is to focus on the new job, but that get's frustrating without too much activity ... and to lay low, and do healthy and productive things - like reading, exercising, taking care of myself, getting enough sleep .. basically treating myself like I were my own child ... and I just know, that in time ... everything will sort itself out ...

... the September 30th trick is what I think I need .. when we try to correct everything overnight, we just end up getting more overwhelmed because things don't fix themselves overnight - having that mentality would be like putting a gun to your head ... however, if I just take each day, meditate (I am into meditation), and get into this really healthy lifestyle ... I think that i will be OK ... and the sun will shine again ...

... I really do just love him so much ... I also know if we were togehter right now, in the right way .. we would make each other happy and share responsibilites, etc .... hey, but if it was meant to be it will be ...

... I think everyone comes in your life for a reason ... at this point I am just hoping that mine for him was to be the person he shares the rest of his life with ... I still hope that ... but have detached myself from the outcome ... now I just keep thinking "BY September 30th" this will all be resolved, and the nightmare will be over ..

Sorry OW, I just saw that you also responded to my post on needing support -- thank you very much ....

... also, what is going on now with you and the MM? You say that he finally got out of an abusive marraige ... but are you with him now???? What happened?

Sorry OW, I just saw that you also responded to my post on needing support -- thank you very much ....

 

... also, what is going on now with you and the MM? You say that he finally got out of an abusive marraige ... but are you with him now???? What happened?

We are together emotionally; we will soon be together physically. The paperwork for his D is in process - he's had some time alone (with the kids) and has been working hard in counselling to get himself to the point where he's been pronounced "ready". And I've been sorting myself out, so that I'm also "ready".

OW ... you sound like a strong and confident woman ... I am so happy to hear that your situation is working itself out! It sounds like you are right on track, and wise about the direction to take ...

May I ask what your story was/is? How did you meet him? Was he seperated already? You had indicated on an earlier post that he was in an abusive marraige ... were you with him for a while? Or, did he meet you at a point where he decided that he needed to do something before his entire life was ruined?

Despite me being positive about my job search, and everything else going on ... I know that you advised me to stay NC with my MM until I really get everything back on an even keel ... what would you advise then? How did you handle your situation? It seems as if your experience has turned out for the best, and that both you and he have taken the correct course of action in both of your lives .... is it just luck that his has a happy ending for you? Or, did the way you handled the situation lead to the happy ending? When I was with the MM - I made it clear that the issues with him and his wife had nothing to do with me ... I met him long after things fell apart for them ... was I correct in doing this?

If I recall, earlier you had mentioned that I was correct in letting him sort this out on his own ... but, by the same token, it appears as if you were there for your MM the entire time, while maintaining your independence and not getting drawn into his affairs with her ... how did you manage that? Where is the fine line?

I am letting go of my MM (have done so already), am no longer with him emotionally, but am sure at some point (months from now I hope, when I am feeling better about this) ... we will be in contact again ... what do I do at that point? And, how do I avoid making the same mistakes I made now? If any - I actually don't think I made any mistakes ... I think that I smartly drew some lines, and then got out when I saw I couldn't handle it .. but, perhaps I did make some mistakes that I am not aware of ??? I don't know ... and I am sure he is just as confused too.

Its hard to get past me! LOL!

 

Wait a minute...I hope you replied to my post!:confused:

Yes.

I really appreciated your perspective on things.

Thanks for sharing it.

Yes.

I really appreciated your perspective on things.

Thanks for sharing it.

Thanks for clarifiying.....I'd hate to be seen as just another "blowhard"!

OW ... you sound like a strong and confident woman ... I am so happy to hear that your situation is working itself out! It sounds like you are right on track, and wise about the direction to take ...

 

May I ask what your story was/is? How did you meet him? Was he seperated already? You had indicated on an earlier post that he was in an abusive marraige ... were you with him for a while? Or, did he meet you at a point where he decided that he needed to do something before his entire life was ruined?

Briefly: we met professionally. He had been separated but had recently allowed his W back because of concern for the kids. He and I developed a strong professional R - nothing romantic at that stage. I did some homework and liked what I saw, and some time later when the opportunity arose I pounced. We've been involved for a while, during which he's been getting counselling, and when we decided we wanted to be together he did what he needed and left his W.

Despite me being positive about my job search, and everything else going on ... I know that you advised me to stay NC with my MM until I really get everything back on an even keel ... what would you advise then? How did you handle your situation? It seems as if your experience has turned out for the best, and that both you and he have taken the correct course of action in both of your lives .... is it just luck that his has a happy ending for you? Or, did the way you handled the situation lead to the happy ending? When I was with the MM - I made it clear that the issues with him and his wife had nothing to do with me ... I met him long after things fell apart for them ... was I correct in doing this?

 

If I recall, earlier you had mentioned that I was correct in letting him sort this out on his own ... but, by the same token, it appears as if you were there for your MM the entire time, while maintaining your independence and not getting drawn into his affairs with her ... how did you manage that? Where is the fine line?

 

I am letting go of my MM (have done so already), am no longer with him emotionally, but am sure at some point (months from now I hope, when I am feeling better about this) ... we will be in contact again ... what do I do at that point? And, how do I avoid making the same mistakes I made now? If any - I actually don't think I made any mistakes ... I think that I smartly drew some lines, and then got out when I saw I couldn't handle it .. but, perhaps I did make some mistakes that I am not aware of ??? I don't know ... and I am sure he is just as confused too.

Biff, chill! You can only take responsibility for your life and your decisions, not for his. Let him get his act together - in whichever way he needs to. If he gets to the point where he can leave, and heal, and be ready for a proper, healthy R - then at that point revisit the situation and consider whether that's what you want or not. For now, he has to do what he has to do.

My MM was getting counselling and sorting himself out while we were involved. At that stage I was just wanting a part-time, no strings A with no view to it going anywhere, so the boundaries were very clear and he knew it. I'm a very good compartmentaliser and there was no chance of me getting dragged into his ****. When we decided we wanted to be together, there was a great deal of stuff for us both to do - not just him.

Right now what you have to do is look out for you. Let him come to you when he's man enough to be what you want in a partner - if, at that stage, you're still interested. But he's not there yet - he's got some stuff to work through first.

Thanks again OW - you are correct, again ... I have also decided to really lay low for a while ... in every aspect of my life ... the truth is, I am concerned about the job search (even though I talk myself out of worrying about it from time to time ...) it's an underlying current ... so, as of now, the only thing I am going to focus on is getting good exercise, the proper amount of sleep, keeping my house/affairs in order ... and clearing my head so I am in fighting shape for the job stuff ...

I did need to chill! I am totally just focused on myself right now, and no longer worrying about it ... but, it is still good to come here ... I have some fundamental issues right now to be sorted out before I can go anywhere ... and, I am so glad that I ended the A - emotional or otherwise ... staying involved with him right now would sink me like a stone! When the rest of what I have going on is truly in order ... I have a feeling the rest of it will fall into place ...

... Thank you so much for your support, encouragement, and good solid advice!! I really do appreciate it ...

Thanks again OW - you are correct, again ... I have also decided to really lay low for a while ... in every aspect of my life ... the truth is, I am concerned about the job search (even though I talk myself out of worrying about it from time to time ...) it's an underlying current ... so, as of now, the only thing I am going to focus on is getting good exercise, the proper amount of sleep, keeping my house/affairs in order ... and clearing my head so I am in fighting shape for the job stuff ...

 

I did need to chill! I am totally just focused on myself right now, and no longer worrying about it ... but, it is still good to come here ... I have some fundamental issues right now to be sorted out before I can go anywhere ... and, I am so glad that I ended the A - emotional or otherwise ... staying involved with him right now would sink me like a stone! When the rest of what I have going on is truly in order ... I have a feeling the rest of it will fall into place ...

 

... Thank you so much for your support, encouragement, and good solid advice!! I really do appreciate it ...

You're welcome

On the job story - have you checked out the discussion (or started your own thread) on the Business and Professional Relationships forum http://www.loveshack.org/forums/f10/ ? You may get some useful advise or find some useful connections. You said, iirc, you were in finance, and some others are in similar or related fields so may have some useful input.

Hang in there! (((((hugs)))))