Walking away in silence...why?

Why?

 

Witabix, I beleive a book I have read may be help to you, it's called He's Scared, She's Scared by Stephen Carter.

a very good suggestion, willow.

I'd also recommend some of David Richo's books;

"When Love Meets Fear; becoming defenseless and resourceful"

"When the Past is Present; healing the emotional wounds that sabotage relationships"

"How to be an Adult in Relationships, the five keys to mindful loving"

Yes, thats an old chestnut around here.

 

There are three of us, brothers. My parents were good parents. The three of us boys are all very different. I was the son who came home with black eyes and split lips, my mother would go ballistic, but my dad would only smile and ask me if I had started it. I never did. I remember him saying to me many times "Never let them look down on you, stand up for yourself". Who 'they' were I am not sure.

 

When I was a teenager my parents decided to go home. Leaving me where they previously lived. My younger brother only discovered that I was left against my will recently, he seemed deeply shocked, and said "That explains a lot......why you are like you are".

 

My older brother was outraged that our parents did that. He offered to take me in to his house, he lived in Africa at that time and I didn't fancy that.

 

I was indentured at the time, how old does that make me look, and my father insisted that, for my own good, I finish my term. He was right, I traveled the world and earned a lot of money in that 'trade'.

 

I harboured a lot of resentment over that for a very long time. Feeling that they abandoned me. I see now that my father was right, I needed to study and work and pass my exams and grow up. He just threw me in at the deep end, because he was sure I could do it, and I did.

 

If I were to use that stuff again, I used it in the past to explain to myself why I am like this, it would just be going over dead ground. I can't blame my father for being who and what he was. He taught me the value of being strong, of never flinching in the face of difficulties, of looking every other man in the eye, of being me. I could have learned more from my mother about being loving and warm, she didn't want to leave me. I begged my father to stay, I could afford to support the family. He hated that, seeing me in tears begging him to stay. I think that actually hurt him. He expected me to do as he did in his difficult life, stand silently and accept what was happening because there was nothing I could have done to stop it anyway.

 

His view of 'standing up for yourself' was never showing weakness, I only ever saw him cry once, when his estranged sister died. His youth was pure unadulterated hell. Its a long story. But I won't use that as an excuse, a lot of the things he showed me have proved to be useful over the years.

 

At my age I feel as though I should have the wisdom to understand, at least my own past actions. I am very aware of how things influence us as we grow.

 

Perhaps I put too much emphasis on certain traits, valuing them more than is necessary and less on others. I seem to value the confrontation resolution skills, not realising, up until now that confrontation doesn't have to be resolved with one side winning and the other losing. It is not a black and white situation. I tended to resolve conflict in a sudden and total fashion, no quarter given or requested. One of us will win and one of us will lose. I am intensely competitive.

 

With that in mind it doesn't seem odd that I would keep my thoughts and feelings to myself.

 

It is powerful mindset in certain situations, but perhaps not in inter-personal relationships with your partner. I do have a caring side thats all soft and fuzzy, but I hide it.

 

Maybe I should just let it out for a while and see what happens......

 

This post has rambled on a bit I know that, its a little like 'thinking on to paper'........

Oh wow. It's all right there. So I was onto something with the question who betrayed you. You have abandonment issues, and you have never overcome being abandoned as a child, and who can blame you for that!

May I ask what the indentured 'trade' was?

I bet your caring soft and fuzzy side is something someone would cherish. You might consider letting that gem out where someone can see it. Start with your daughter. It's a shame to keep something so warm and fuzzy locked away where no one can appreciate it.

Your father taught you to try to always be invincible to emotions. Survival skills. They aren't all bad, those survival skills. They can lead to great self-sufficiency, expertise, and success in the professional world. But they have little use in the world of love...

I don't quote the bible often, as I'm a happy heathen, but the below Corinthians is known in it's own right...

“Love is patient; love is kind

and envies no one.

Love is never boastful, nor conceited, nor rude;

never selfish, not quick to take offense.

There is nothing love cannot face;

there is no limit to its faith,

its hope, and endurance.

In a word, there are three things

that last forever: faith, hope, and love;

but the greatest of them all is love.”

My point being that love is stronger than any wall you can build, any survival skill your father taught you doesn't hold a candle to the power of love.

Your parent's love for you was lacking. This is painful to accept. That ain't no chestnut, it's a chestnut forest.

Your parent's decision was not your fault. Until you accept that, your development will stay arrested. IT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT.

Neither is it the fault of anyone you may start to love, or already do love, so stop the cycle of punishment.

Once you realize that you are innocent, so you will see others that love you as innocent.

No one acts in a vacuum, it is true. Our behaviour is a response to our environment and experiences in the present as well as the past. Our reactions, especially if we feel threatened or in a stressfull or anxiety inducing position are very much influenced by the amygdala. When, for what ever reason, we start seeing a relationship as threatening, our response, if we are not very well emotionally regulated, is influenced by a primitive part of the brain with a very limited, preprogrammed response. These are the past experiences, strongest of which are our earliest experiences of a relationship (or lack of it) with the provider, the mother.

 

If we cannot apply an obvious reason for the sense of threat, stress or anxiety, the amygdala stimulates other parts of the brain to try and apply a reason. Often we will create or provoke conflict in order to explain to ourselves the feelings we are having. We will look for a source, and if the source isn't there, the amygdala will influence the organism to find a source even if it means creating one. We create conflict through subtle unconscious provocations and manipulations. Often, the target is picked for convenience, and has nothing to do with the true source of the feeling. The most convenient target in a relationship, is always the spouse.

 

We learn manipulation at an early age, it is one of the first things a baby learns. It's 2 primary needs are to be fed and to be cleaned and it learns that if it makes a certain noise, and if it makes this noise loud enough, it's needs are met. A person that learns to regulate itself emotionally, through loving contact with the provider, to a certain extent learns to extend themselves beyond an unconscious manipulation to get it's needs met. A person that hasn't learnt self regulation from the love of their provider, never grows out of the unconscious provocation and manipulation phase. In essence, the inner baby hasn't had it's needs met and lives on in the adult. Everyone that has experienced relationship conflict, must have, to some extent been aware that their own behaviour was being triggered, just as much as they, perhaps were aware of their behaviour triggering their partners behaviour towards them.

 

We are responsible for our behaviour? Well no, we aren't, not totally. Our behaviour is very much a response to our environment and experiences, to what is going on around us, to how other people behave towards us. Yes we have the ability to overcome our reactions and responses, this comes from the anterior cingulates ability to regulate the amygdala. But the amygdala is stimulated by cortisol, and if there is enough cortisol and it is there for long enough, then the amygdala is too stimulated for the anterior cingulate to regulate, so the anterior cingulate gives up and lets the amygdala get on with it.

 

Only the amygdala is capable of triggering such covert provocations and manipulations. The amygdala doesn't know love, to the amygdala love can become a learned threat and the amygdala will respond to love as if it is a threat because love requires vulnerability and vulnerability is intolerable to the amygdala.

 

So it is not possible to "make" someone love you because the part of the brain that has learnt the skill of manipulation has no interest in love, and in fact sees love as an enemy to it's need to be in control, to be the master of it's environment, so that it's environment holds no threat to the organism. Such is the self destructive potential of the defence mechanisms of the amygdala. Even suicide, the ultimate self destruction, has been shown to be influenced by the defence mechanism; a protection of the image of self when the reality of life threatens the destruction of that image.

 

You have taken a great, courageous, and honest step towards finding yourself witabix, but Nietzsche warned against staring in to the abyss too long, and look what it did to him.

That was an interesting post, I may have to read it several times....this is one area where my scientific knowledge is lacking. I have never studied psychology except where it touches artificial intelligence. Thanks Simon.

Nietzsche, yes I am very aware of his writings. I don't really feel as though I am staring into an abyss. I feel that this process, which has been going on slowly for a few years now is more positive than me just saying I am a crappy person, because I don't believe I am.

I have a few learned behaviours that have, IMO, damaged my potential to be happier than I am and damaged people close to me. I want to make sure that I don't do it again.

We have to learn how to love. You have started with your daughter. You probably are vulnerable to her now, as you said you are very close. Doesn't it feel wonderful?!

Yes it does, my children know me better than anyone ever has. I don't feel vulnerable to my daughter, I have complete faith in her, the same with my eldest son. They as adults are my best friends as well as my children. I can trust them with anything, as they know they can trust me. They have forgiven me completely for my actions, as Simon suggested in a previous post, the first people I apologised to were my kids. I did so in person and in hand written letters, years ago.

I discuss all this stuff with my son and daughter a lot. They know who I am and what I am, and where I come from. They are definitely not seen as threats, quite the opposite. They talk to me about their deep personal issues as well, nothing is hidden.

My relationship with my kids is a great big boost to me. It took a little courage to go and meet them face to face after all that time. I expected my son to simply hit me and tell me to go and f*ck myself. This is the kind of situation I meant when it is sometimes beneficial to be a rhinoceros.

(A psychologist once explained that he saw two kinds of people, the cows and the rhinoceroses. A fence will keep the cows in a field. The same fence won't stop a rhino, the rhino will smash through even if it means losing an ear.)

The underlined resonates with me. I still believed that people weren't capable of change up to quite recently. I think it is used as a self sabotaging mechanism. Even though it is clearly a failure of logic, I have changed why not other people too.

 

When I look really closely at it I think I can perceive two elements to it, in my case anyway.

 

The first is the self sabotage, always struggling to believe that you have found someone that loves you, somewhere inside you feel as though don't deserve it. I am no quivering mass of insecurities on the outside, quite the reverse. But somewhere inside there is a profound inability to believe. An unshakeable feeling that all is not as it seems. Its a suspicion, maybe, of everyone and everything. Those feelings remain hidden, and by their very nature are never discussed.

 

The second is a by product that is developed over the years. An elitist feeling, that goes along the lines 'I am the only one I can trust', no one is worthy of my thoughts, no one could ever understand any way so, why try?

 

Reading that back I can see its not quite right.

 

It seems willow that we are on opposite sides of the same dynamic. I cannot speak for your ex directly, but I can say that your phrase is out of place here. This behaviour, walking away, is not really about your SO, you throw out anything that you can to 'smoke screen' your inability to articulate your thoughts, you may even be unaware at the surface level of your own thoughts, or motivations. I hasten to add here that I am not in any way justifying or excusing this behaviour.

 

I was married for thirteen years when I walked out, twenty years ago, now I can't seem to see why, but what I can see is the probable damage I did to my ex wife. How could I do such a thing? I asked myself the same question a while ago. Hence we are here talking about this stuff.

 

I am so sorry that your husband did the same to you, or something similar anyway. One of the worst parts of this is reading your thoughts about you being 'so bad', it fills me with despair that I may have left such a good person as my wife, and I am sure you too willow, with such a thought.

 

That appears to be the price of living with such a monumental idiot.

 

My 'emptiness' was never her fault, it was mine.

Thank you for this.

, my wife's story is not heard here. She wasn't much of a 'sharer' of emotional stuff either. My children know this too now.

You have spoken of your relationship with your father openly. It is inevitably unavoidable to approach the Freudian cliché, but how was your early relationship with your mother? Was she an "emotional sharer"? And what is the age difference with your brothers and yourself?

My relationship with my kids is a great big boost to me. It took a little courage to go and meet them face to face after all that time. I expected my son to simply hit me and tell me to go and f*ck myself. This is the kind of situation I meant when it is sometimes beneficial to be a rhinoceros.

 

(A psychologist once explained that he saw two kinds of people, the cows and the rhinoceroses. A fence will keep the cows in a field. The same fence won't stop a rhino, the rhino will smash through even if it means losing an ear.)

The psychologist seems to be differentiating between those who will take risks in life, and those who won't, so end up penned.

The ultimate risk is trust in love.

One goes for broke, the other plays it safe but doesn't have much of a life penned behind that fence...or wall!

Seems like you are both animals. You've certainly taken your share of risks by leaving relationships. How about taking the risk of staying in one?

You have spoken of your relationship with your father openly. It is inevitably unavoidable to approach the Freudian cliché, but how was your early relationship with your mother? Was she an "emotional sharer"? And what is the age difference with your brothers and yourself?

Mammy, lovely warm woman. No sharer of internal stuff. She stood squarely in the shadow (Not a Mordor type one, a protective one) of my father. My father tried that with both my brothers, protecting them and helping them in any way possible.

I was identified early on as quite gifted boy and my father was very proud of my 'cleverness', he valued that more than just about anything else in life. He liked the fact that as I grew up I kept his mantra going in my head, stand up for yourself. He never told me off for fighting, he encouraged the boxing club and the martial arts. Mans stuff.

Mum couldn't give a hoot about all that stuff, she just wanted us to be happy. My Mum loved me, all of us, completely. She showed that in all she did. We used to laugh a lot. When I was getting divorced my father, a very religious man, was disgusted with me. Mum stood right by me.

I always felt a little sorry for my Mum. She was a happy go lucky person, friendly to everyone and everyone liked her. I don't think she was too happy with her marriage, not until right near the end, but she was also religious and believed in marriage unto death. They did love each other, but I never saw them holding hands or kissing, not until they were very old.

I never had any in depth conversations with either of my parents about anything.

You've certainly taken your share of risks by leaving relationships. How about taking the risk of staying in one?

Good one.

I hope you typed that with a suitably sardonic smile YGG, made me laugh out loud.

Mammy, lovely warm woman. No sharer of internal stuff. She stood squarely in the shadow of my father. My father tried that with both my brothers, protecting them and helping them in any way possible.

 

I was identified early on as quite gifted boy and my father was very proud of my 'cleverness', he valued that more than just about anything else in life. He liked the fact that as I grew up I kept his mantra going in my head, stand up for yourself. He never told me off for fighting, he encouraged the boxing club and the martial arts. Mans stuff.

 

Mum couldn't give a hoot about all that stuff, she just wanted us to be happy. My Mum loved me, all of us, completely. She showed that in all she did. We used to laugh a lot. When I was getting divorced my father, a very religious man, was disgusted with me. Mum stood right by me.

 

I always felt a little sorry for my Mum. She was a happy go lucky person, friendly to everyone and everyone liked her. I don't think she was too happy with her marriage, not until right near the end, but she was also religious and believed in marriage unto death. They did love each other, but I never saw them holding hands or kissing, not until they were very old.

 

I never had any in depth conversations with either of my parents about anything.

What I am trying to discern here, is whether your earliest experiences with your mother were protective and meeting your emotional needs. It's been shown that high levels of the stress hormone, cortisol, can have major implications to the development of a babies brain, both in the womb and in the first few years. The ability to regulate emotions has a direct correlation with the ability of the organism to regulate cortisol. This is a learned process, for in the womb and the first few years of life, as the part of the brain responsible for emotional regulation is still developing, the job of regulating a babies stress and teaching a baby how to regulate their own stress lies with the mother. Any stressful event, especially a prolonged stressful event, damages the development of the system that regulates cortisol, and thus emotional and behavioural responses to situations that cause anxiety or stress.

I also asked you what the age difference is between you and your bothers, I'm getting an inkling that you are close in ages, but you are the oldest?

The other question is; were there other stressful events that you are aware of that were happening at the same time as your destruction of your marriage?

you can always tell me to piss off asking all these questions

I also asked you what the age difference is between you and your bothers, I'm getting an inkling that you are close in ages, but you are the oldest?

 

The other question is; were there other stressful events that you are aware of that were happening at the same time as your destruction of your marriage?

 

you can always tell me to piss off asking all these questions

Middle child, big age differences -6 and +8 years..

No other stress at time of break up. Everything was quite good.

 

Good one.

 

I hope you typed that with a suitably sardonic smile YGG, made me laugh out loud.

Just a wee one!

I'm wondering about the details of this second relationship that failed and produced a child. Maybe you could share.

As for the first marriage that you walked away from, do you see a potential MLC during this period?

What were your fantasies before you left? Of building a new life? Of being free? Thoughts had to cross your mind before you walked out that door.

Just a wee one!

 

I'm wondering about the details of this second relationship that failed and produced a child. Maybe you could share.

As for the first marriage that you walked away from, do you see a potential MLC during this period?

What were your fantasies before you left? Of building a new life? Of being free? Thoughts had to cross your mind before you walked out that door.

The last failed R, ended recently, about six months ago. Big age difference. She still had a lot of 'confusion' over her ex, and ended up doing some stuff that she really shouldn't have done. It is a longish story. Maybe for another time.

In the end I couldn't see any kind of stable future, we talked a lot, I explained myself a great deal. She couldn't seem to see my point of view too clearly, the "Yes but," responses. In the end we split, remaining on good terms. She went home to her own country.

MLC, I am not familiar with all the acronyms used on LS and this is another one I am unsure about. Mid life crisis? I don't think so I was only in my early 30's. As for thoughts, that is part of what I am asking myself now, what was I thinking because I can't answer that question.

The last failed R, ended recently, about six months ago. Big age difference. She still had a lot of 'confusion' over her ex, and ended up doing some stuff that she really shouldn't have done. It is a longish story. Maybe for another time.

 

In the end I couldn't see any kind of stable future, we talked a lot, I explained myself a great deal. She couldn't seem to see my point of view too clearly, the "Yes but," responses. In the end we split, remaining on good terms. She went home to her own country.

 

MLC, I am not familiar with all the acronyms used on LS and this is another one I am unsure about. Mid life crisis? I don't think so I was only in my early 30's. As for thoughts, that is part of what I am asking myself now, what was I thinking because I can't answer that question.

Witabix - In my marriage counseling sessions, our therapist stated that a MLC actually can happen at any age, men tend to go through it at 30, 40, 50 and even 60. Maybe not at every decade, but more prone to it during those age groups. My ex was probably around 38 when he started going through his, but it's not uncommon in the early 30's too. It can triggered by empty feelings or dissatisfaction with one's life or lifestyle. Most websites on the topic state that it happens between 40 and 60, so I was surprised too that it can happen in the 30's....but given the economy and the accumulation of debt that people take on at that age (which can also be triggers), it's not uncommon anymore.

MLC, I am not familiar with all the acronyms used on LS and this is another one I am unsure about. Mid life crisis? I don't think so I was only in my early 30's. As for thoughts, that is part of what I am asking myself now, what was I thinking because I can't answer that question.

Alright, I'm not going to dig into the relationship that ended last year, as it appears it was inappropriate from the get-go. Relating to another culture is one hurdle, relating to a large age difference another, having to do both at once just might be a recipe for disaster, even without all the but if's. I am suspecting in this relationship you chose someone who would be interesting to learn about, but never a close mind fit, thereby doomed from the get-go for a lifetime partner.

As for whether you had a MLC (yes Mid life crisis) it certainly can happen in the mid-30's, in fact my psychologist agreed with me during my first D that I was having one at 36. Women may have them earlier as their biological clocks are ticking. (No, I didn't have another child).

I believe the term should be changed to 'life crisis' and forget the "mid" part of it. To walk on a family with 3 children definitely points to this being a possibility.

If you can't remember the thoughts prior to leaving, then I'll hypnotize you through LS posts. Err....maybe I'm not that good....

Alright then! How about what you did after you left? There could be telling signs there.

Not trying to bash you TNT, I dont know your story, but it does sound like you care about him. Just relating some of your remarks to my own. Just because you got back together doesn't wipe that slate clean. Actions like that leave scars and to some extent although they will heal and we learn to live with them, they are always there. Its mistrust, worry, flat out paranoia of whacould lie around the bend

TNT, when we whip the carpet out from under someone it takes a long time to rebuild the trust. Keep talking to him, show him you care.

I love this man very much. I was a bit confused last year when we first broke up. I was honest and told him the truth, that I needed to think. That was what I needed to do. But I still showed him love I was there, and I caught him then talking to some girl. He said he felt lonely and he needed me but I wasn't there. I couldn't lose him and we got back together. Things were working out. There were times that I didn't like him drinking too much nd let him know. He was not a drunk but when we did drink he didn't know when to stop. He then lost his job, became more distant etc problem stirred up I would cry and question alot, I became insecure about us. He said that this was when he needed me the most to understand and be a partner. It was scary. I didn't want to lose him. So I guess I couldn't take it and I let it get to me, I was being needy. ( and let ne tell u I was never like this with him prior) I blew up one day and we broke up. I cried alot. He said I killed him. It's been almost 6 weeks. I've seen him 4x since. He asked to see me the first time. I asked to see him the rest. It's only to talk. He isn't as angry anymore cause at first he didn't even want to reply to my calls or texts. Now he does. I miss him. I want to be there for him. Hes depressed going through alot! I saw him Friday he agreed to meet. We had dinner. He hugged me and gave me a kiss. I didn't make it about me. I was sweet. We talked in my car for a few. He's so down about life. I hugged him, he's so freakn gorgeous. He gave me a kiss on my lips said I love u too. I told him I missed laying with him and talking and he smiled at me and said maybe we can do that soon. He left. He text me when he hot home to let me know he was home safe cduse he was on his motorcycle. I miss him love him. I don't want to be selfish. I want to be strong. But I know he needs his space time to think time to heal....

But I cannot believe that asking for that space before was bad, I needed it. It made me reize I wanted to be with this man. Why can't he see that. I'm trying to respect his space now and I'm sure he wouldn't want me to resent that...

Do I go nc untill he contacts me only?

Do I see it as we r over for the sake of my sanity and the confusion?

He's told me if I can't understand then o can just let it go.... He says I probably can't handle it and be selfless....

I've realized my mistakes and the pain I've caused, I want him to see that.

I'm not the enemy, I love this man, I was his queen ( that's what he caled me) he said I was his life partner he shared everything and would do anything for us....

I'm typing from phone excuse any mistakes.

Alright, I'm not going to dig into the relationship that ended last year, as it appears it was inappropriate from the get-go. Relating to another culture is one hurdle, relating to a large age difference another, having to do both at once just might be a recipe for disaster, even without all the but if's. I am suspecting in this relationship you chose someone who would be interesting to learn about, but never a close mind fit, thereby doomed from the get-go for a lifetime partner.

 

As for whether you had a MLC (yes Mid life crisis) it certainly can happen in the mid-30's, in fact my psychologist agreed with me during my first D that I was having one at 36. Women may have them earlier as their biological clocks are ticking. (No, I didn't have another child).

 

I believe the term should be changed to 'life crisis' and forget the "mid" part of it. To walk on a family with 3 children definitely points to this being a possibility.

If you can't remember the thoughts prior to leaving, then I'll hypnotize you through LS posts. Err....maybe I'm not that good....

Alright then! How about what you did after you left? There could be telling signs there.

About a year later I got caught up in a whirlwind romance, quit my job and moved to the middle east. Chasing excitement, 'difference', the R was a good one for me, no deep stuff, all flowers and romance. We kept that going for a good few years, with no real problems.

My dad died, and we decided to come home, SO was the same nationality. I came back to be with my mum knowing how sad and lonely she would be. Mum died six months later and I kind of went into 'drift mode'. Not knowing what to do next.

That was fourteen years ago. My SO and I parted company on good terms, just after I got quite ill, a few years later.

Recovered from that, went back to college to study science......the years have just drifted by since. R's came and went.

Now I am sitting here looking back over what has been a full life and wondering what happened. Particularly in my marriage. How I am on good terms with nearly everyone that my life has touched, except my ex wife.

I think I read willow's story in another thread and it resonated with me. How I had done that to my ex wife, and how sorry I am now that I did. I have always been aware that something wasn't sitting right in my head over it all.

I started to recall my 'reasons', I had a load of justifications at the time, most of them BS a few not so much. But it still doesn't add up. Maybe it is just the difference in age and wisdom that you gain over the years.

I was wondering how many people coming on to read/post on LS might be thinking something similar. The mindset of "Well they don't get it", "I am out of here", "I am not happy", for whatever reason. How men may be trapping themselves by living up to the stereotype of being 'strong and silent'. How they may need to be talking to their wife. How women may also be staying silent, because they are expected to. I have read women's stories about peer pressure from various areas, and I know from personal experience what it is like from the silent man's perspective.

I was just hoping that by laying out my stuff someone, even if its just one, may think twice. I was also hoping that my story might help the ones who had been treated in a similar way to come to terms with why that sometimes happens.

There is enough sadness on here as it is, I was hoping that we may add some understanding of why some of that bad stuff happens.

LoveTNT :- But I cannot believe that asking for that space before was bad, I needed it. It made me reize I wanted to be with this man. Why can't he see that. I'm trying to respect his space now and I'm sure he wouldn't want me to resent that...

 

Do I go nc untill he contacts me only?

Do I see it as we r over for the sake of my sanity and the confusion?

 

He's told me if I can't understand then o can just let it go.... He says I probably can't handle it and be selfless....

 

I've realized my mistakes and the pain I've caused, I want him to see that.

 

I'm not the enemy, I love this man, I was his queen ( that's what he caled me) he said I was his life partner he shared everything and would do anything for us....

 

I'm typing from phone excuse any mistakes.

I think I know this kind of situation as well. My advice is not to go NC.

That will show, possibly, that you don't care.

If it is true that you have broken the trust between you, don't despair I believe it can be rebuilt. It takes time. It takes a long time to build trust but only a few moments to destroy it. My last R went out of the window because of trust being destroyed.

We are in constant contact, because of our child, and she brought the 'us' subject recently. I have little to no trust in her at the moment, so I didn't really get into the discussion. What the future holds no one can tell.

If the lines of communication are kept open, and an understanding of your overall situation remains uppermost in your mind, you do have a chance to rebuild something.

I may get shot down in flames here, but to rebuild trust, the reason for the loss of trust has to be addressed. You have to identify between the two of you the reason for the breakdown. Put something in place that will remove his fears of it happening again.

He says you can't handle it and be selfless. What do you think he means with this?

I think I know this kind of situation as well. My advice is not to go NC.

 

That will show, possibly, that you don't care.

 

If it is true that you have broken the trust between you, don't despair I believe it can be rebuilt. It takes time. It takes a long time to build trust but only a few moments to destroy it. My last R went out of the window because of trust being destroyed.

 

We are in constant contact, because of our child, and she brought the 'us' subject recently. I have little to no trust in her at the moment, so I didn't really get into the discussion. What the future holds no one can tell.

 

If the lines of communication are kept open, and an understanding of your

 

overall situation remains uppermost in your mind, you do have a chance to rebuild something.

 

I may get shot down in flames here, but to rebuild trust, the reason for the

 

loss of trust has to be addressed. You have to identify between the two of you the reason for the breakdown. Put something in place that will remove his fears of it happening again.

 

He says you can't handle it and be selfless. What do you think he means with this?

during our recent arguments we had this year he sartrd mentioning that somethines u have to be selfless with the one you love and be there for them, he said I had a defeatist mentaility, I would always want to leave or give up when we argued... I don't want to be like that. I guess I was raised with my father cheating on my mom constantly they had a divorce.subconciously I might have been pushing him away, but losing him was the last thing I wanted.I even admitted to Jim that i was afraid of him leaving me and if anything I was doing all the things ( by pushing him away) because that's what I feared the most. Confusing I know. Weird. But I'm willing to try I'm willing to be selfless at tines and respect his wishes if he needs a little space to realize,.. He motivated me and truly loved me. I appreciate that and hope he let's me in again because I want to show him love. He said that it hurts him to feel like he has to protect himself from me. A part of him says I'm the enemy for hurting him, but that he loves me and has hope too. He's just depressed about life and where he's going with his career. I guess he can't give me what he can't currently give himself. He's a grumpy sad butt lately and I just want to hold him.... Oh goodness it's confusing.

Hi LoveTNT - Loving selflessly is a two way street, it's loving someone in spite of their faults and flaws....but it is not manipulative. I think it is how many people keep their marriages going for 40 or 50 years....but there is much forgiveness on each others parts and its being able to tolerate the intolerable sometimes.

I've looked back at some of your earlier posts in other forums on LS - to get a bigger picture of how this all came about and with his request now to love him selflessly and give him space....can we take this back a little further to situation one and situation two. It might help shed some light on what this man you are in love with is asking for. Also, would be good to know your ages if you could give that information.

Hi LoveTNT - Loving selflessly is a two way street, it's loving someone in spite of their faults and flaws....but it is not manipulative. I think it is how many people keep their marriages going for 40 or 50 years....but there is much forgiveness on each others parts and its being able to tolerate the intolerable sometimes.

 

I've looked back at some of your earlier posts in other forums on LS - to get a bigger picture of how this all came about and with his request now to love him selflessly and give him space....can we take this back a little further to situation one and situation two. It might help shed some light on what this man you are in love with is asking for. Also, would be good to know your ages if you could give that information.

Hi trippi, siiigggh. In 26 and he'll be 31. I had been dating a younger guy prior to him that at the time I really liked, but he was in and out. When I met my ex it was during a time that me and the young one had gone nc because he didn't want what I wanted for about 2 months. During this tome I met a great guy ( my ex) but i wasn't over the young guy. But my ex was so nice and spoiled me and was a breath if fresh air. He took me on short trips. His girlfriend ( yup) and him were drifting and when he noticed he was really liking me he told her it wasn't working out. They broke up ( she later saw us together ( I felt bad). Anyhow, we decided to get together, I still a bit confused about my feelings for both him and the young one. But in my heart I felt my ex was a better man and it was a healthier situation. Then young guy broke nc, oh goodness I was confused but I told him situation, I saw Him aahhhh. Made it worse I was highly confused but new I couldn't go back. I told ex at the time that I had alot on mind, that maybe we rushed things. By this time we had already said I love u. We hot back from a simmer trip. I asked for space. But I really dis it because I wanted to clear my head. It wasn't fair to him he was wonderful. But a few months passed we had broken ip etc and I decided eventually that I loved him and we would work it out. He began to build resentment. But he wouldn't mention it at all. New years passed now 2010 and I noticed more and more that he was protecting himself from me not depending to much on us and not being as close etc ( he still was and very loving always there fir me still but u know u can tell when there's even a tad bit change) I got insecure worried he then lost one of his jobs. He made good money and he would spoil us. I know that the fact that now he couldn't as much made/ makes him feel insecure. We started arguing more because I would have questions and be hurt at the fact that he was bit distant, but I would check myself and really try to understand the situation. It's crazy because when I finally was giving him my all ( I love this man) he was protecting himself. Eventually he cracked started letting me know about how he really felt. He was always being the strong one, loving, sweet, understanding and now everything was coming to the surface. I got upset at the fact that he held it in and didn't bring up the hurt and insecurities when the situation was accuting and now 6 months later I was finding out all the hurt. I finally saw him cry I mean cry. He told me how hard it was for him to feel like he was losing me more and more everyday back them. How he began to protect himself from it ever happening again and how losing his job made him feel just less and lost. He's trying to start his business so he's not taking jobs being offered to Jim currently. It's stressful for him.

Honestly, o let my emotions get the best of me and old him I was tired of it, because of how distant I felt from him. Plus I had gotten insecure. Finding him textn I bartender he had hooked up w before but he was sorry and nothing happened, how he would just drink and drink some nights how he wouldn't hang with me as much, but he still wanted to work on us, he mentioned that we should go to counceling and that's what we were to do. Well the day we broke up July 29, I was pmsing hurt insecure etc, bleh. We were arguing and I started crying and said I was tired of everything and I didn't want to go to counseling, he said if I didn't do that that it was over. I cried. But then said maybe we can be friends after some months. He said ! No! He eventually dropped me off. I still hadn't apologized and said yes I want to go to counseling. He left. I crawled in bed and cried. I then called him. An hr or so later and for the first tome he put up the tallest wall. Answered phone let me have and hung up. He was like u did this! There's nothing more to say!!! Leave me alone!!!! Oh goodness the start of a sad sad horrible cry hurt fest. Since then seem him 4 x. We don't tk on phone. Only of I ask Jim to call me only after 2 weeks passed of him being super mad. I'm so sorry about what happened, I love him and want to b there for him. He's been down lately. But he's still not comfortable with it. Last I saw Jim this past Friday he agreed to have dinner with me. We met. He's so gorgeous my babe, ugh! Hr hissed me said I looked nice. For the first time since we've been broken up I was strong about not getting overly emotional and just talked about his recent projects life my college classes, u can see the lost confusioon and hurt in his eyes. Honestly I pray everyday for him I tell him. I want him to have peace and understanding in his heart I care n live him very much and am honestly learning and owning up to my mistakes through these lonely hard weeks. He gave me a kiss said he loved me and that maybe soon we could do what I've been missing laying with him, laughing talking about life and enjoying his sweet genuine smile. I want Him to be happy no matter what....

The hard moments are when I think he truly just doesn't ever want to hey back together and that he's spending tome with other females ugggh. But I don't want to think that way..

I just don't want him to feel lonely and depressed anymore.

It's crazy, I hurt him and all I want to do is help Jim heal and love him, but a part of him still feels like it needs to protect himself from me...

I read my story and noticed all these spelling errors, who's Jim ? Lol = him. I'm typing fast from phone. Anyhow thanks for listening.

Now I am sitting here looking back over what has been a full life and wondering what happened. Particularly in my marriage. How I am on good terms with nearly everyone that my life has touched, except my ex wife.

 

I started to recall my 'reasons', I had a load of justifications at the time, most of them BS a few not so much. But it still doesn't add up. Maybe it is just the difference in age and wisdom that you gain over the years.

 

How men may be trapping themselves by living up to the stereotype of being 'strong and silent'. How they may need to be talking to their wife. How women may also be staying silent, because they are expected to. I have read women's stories about peer pressure from various areas, and I know from personal experience what it is like from the silent man's perspective.

 

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I certainly can relate to you on these underlined things, Wit.

My first H is the only person in my lifetime too that despises me, I think. Maybe there's one or two I've not come to realize despise me. But none with whom I had a close relationship with.

It appears you can find no catalyst for your walking away. You might consider professional counseling and hypnotism, something I have never suggested to someone before, but you seem to have lost all recollection except petty grievances, and can't tune into the deep feelings of the man who up and left.

Maybe it's that abyss to go there and dig deep. I suppose you may have changed enough over the years that you are working toward a LTR that you can stick to, without reliving the past, or maybe not, and maybe you do need to dig deep.

I suspect at some point you had a severe disconnect. You were standing there watching your exw and children, and were only an observer, and something snapped within you and felt that you were not a participating member of this family except financially.

"That's them, but not me."

"The mother and her children family."

"I am not this family. I am apart from it."

In simple terms, I believe you played out again very nearly exactly what happened when you were left behind indentured while everyone else in your family moved to another country.

You put yourself through it again.

This is deep stuff to replay and relive that detachment from family.

You recreated that detachment because of guilt over the first time being left behind. "I am to be strong on my own" <--Message from your father.

"I am not worthy to stay with the family." <--What your subconscious believed.

You believed you deserved detachment. It was what you were taught when you were young. Since your exw didn't detach from you, you forced the detachment yourself, in order to relive the scenario again.

Late to this thread but:

I walked away 36 years ago. We'd been married for 13 years and probably less than 12 months of those were happy, the rest of the time we fought or ignored each other. The sex was good for about 4 years, then after the birth of our son it stopped, my fault entirely, it's really hard to get interested when you're angry and I was ALWAYS angry or irked or... She had some serious discussions with me about it but I wasn't interested in anything she had to say, when we got married she said, "I do" and never closed her mouth again so I'd learned to never hear anything she said! BTW, AFAIK neither of us had any other love interest, I believe she was completely faithful, I know I was.

People asked my why the divorce and I had to say there was no big reason, just several dozen little reasons... One day, our daughter had done something I thought was bad (it involved lying and meeting a guy) so I told her she was grounded for a week, she protested to her mother who told her not to worry about it, she'd veto the punishment and did so while I could hear and w/o discussing it with me.

Next day I went to work as usual, came home around lunch time, packed and moved into a motel. She discussed reconciliation but I was glad to be gone and would not discuss it at all, she once told her mother, "He just

left and I don't know why?"

After about a year I bought a house not too far away, kids could walk or bike over and did frequently, exW and I became very good friends w/o the pressures of marriage.

Neither of us ever re-married, I'm in a very long term relationship with someone, she dates but not any one person.

I think I saved my sanity and probably hers by walking...

I doubt this will help anyone but there it is.

I read my story and noticed all these spelling errors, who's Jim ? Lol = him. I'm typing fast from phone. Anyhow thanks for listening.

It's okay, I got that part....there's seems to be a lot going on. Head-swimming and the sorts...time to slow down a little. You loved the other guy, now you love this guy...older guys, yeah...they can hold a wisdom over you that you aren't aware of. Been there, know that (mine lied to me about his age until I was hooked and found his driver's license)...ah, the stupidity of youth.

It sounds to me that you are still exploring what you really want. You're young and still not knowing what side you want to be on.....what is going on in the background of his older guy...you mentioned a bartender....if he has moved on to explore other avenues...that's not your fault...and it's not your reason to be manipulated either. You love him, that's evident, but you put space between the two of you for a reason.

You are at an age where your emotions rule you....don't let them get the better of you.