I just made the call to H...

Can I just clarify some issues? And I speak as an observer of SD (as well as others).

Everyone likes Stamp, even most BSs because they recognize that his love is real. He does not appear (I did not say 'he isn't') to be a womanizer or a home wrecker. He fell in love with a woman who fed him sweet promises of a future. We feel for someone like that. We support someone like that.

We all throw in little aspects of how we see the sitch because we feel others can glean from that perspective. I for one love that experience. It is like drinking Chateauneuf du Pape instead of the boxed wine.

As for kids, we all have deep, deep love for our kids. We don't want to expose them to unpleasantries, but sometimes we allow it if we feel we will pass up the love of our life otherwise. But, the love must be very strong and the risk worth taking. The point is, most of us know what we're doing. Rarely has there been a story of children getting physically hurt over an affair. Emotional pain can come but also be overcome. On this I speak from experience.

I suggest if there is an issue on the pain suffered as a child from a parent having an affair to start a new thread on the subject. I would gladly chime in:)

I didn't say "get over it already", in fact I said I know it's hard and he is taking his time but it is what he needs to do. You completely misread my post if you were referring to me, but it doesn't matter to me, my advice remains the same. I would be frustrated with anyone who still lingers over "love" for someone who treats them so badly. Whether it was my own brother or whoever. I would give them the same advice -- move on, forget her, she is no good for you. That advice isn't hand holding and I fail to see how "all" Stampdaddy needs is hand holding... what good would that do?

 

And I don't mean to be Debbie Downer but he is already talking to her and already missing her... I fear he will be back to talking to her again all the time and then what is the progress?? I see very small signs of progress but as I said it seems to be a cycle and I will not be convinced until he breaks the cycle completely, which takes strength and courage, not wallowing and hand-holding. I think that the advice he needs is to focus on himself and his own life and leave her out of it... so that is the advice I give him. If you want to hold his hand TomCat, you go ahead and do it. I won't be doing it. I will give him advice I think is actually useful.

I didn't quote you did I?

But if you felt identified by some of what I said....

He probably will talk to her again. Ok, so? He is a grown man that is figuring his stuff out and he will do it in his own way at HIS own pace, If people are getting frustrated because he doesn't follow specific "orders" than who is this really about him or the rest of us?

Today he may be doing things that are deemed as damaging to himself, but in that experience something very valid is comming to light and this is what some fail to see, he is becoming AWARE. Awareness is a great place to start in buidling a NEW reality, a new relatity created by the self and with conviction not by circumstances out of control. And a change doesn't happen in a day or even in any particular cookie cutter time lapse, it does as a person gains more introspection.

Ever consider all the flip flopping is actually what is giving him introspection?

On what is good advice and what is not, mehh...it's all relative really...telling someone move on get over it does for the other person as much as telling them continue in the A you are on the right path, in other words NOTHING. The process of letting go is particular to each individual and their style in handling things, some people need cold turkey, others baby steps, other fall deeply ill, others go out and wreak havok, others need the kick in the head boilling point, others give up and take their own lives. Human beings ALL react differently to crisis.

Lastly, it's not my style to backseat drive, if the driver loses his way and needs me to look at the map or watch out for signs I am all there and ready and willing to offer my assistance, otherwise he's running the show because when someone is driving there is nothing more annoying than a backseat driver.

Different styles really...

He probably will talk to her again.

Though if anything, she will be the one contacting him, not him contacting her.

Though if anything, she will be the one contacting him, not him contacting her.

I absolutely agree.

Stamps MW kind of reminds me of matty's OW............Scary.

Stamps MW kind of reminds me of matty's OW............Scary.

STOP THAT!!! You read my mind. I was thinking the same thing but more in terms of the overall feel.

I didn't quote you did I?

But if you felt identified by some of what I said....

 

He probably will talk to her again. Ok, so? He is a grown man that is figuring his stuff out and he will do it in his own way at HIS own pace, If people are getting frustrated because he doesn't follow specific "orders" than who is this really about him or the rest of us?

 

Today he may be doing things that are deemed as damaging to himself, but in that experience something very valid is comming to light and this is what some fail to see, he is becoming AWARE. Awareness is a great place to start in buidling a NEW reality, a new relatity created by the self and with conviction not by circumstances out of control. And a change doesn't happen in a day or even in any particular cookie cutter time lapse, it does as a person gains more introspection.

 

Ever consider all the flip flopping is actually what is giving him introspection?

 

On what is good advice and what is not, mehh...it's all relative really...telling someone move on get over it does for the other person as much as telling them continue in the A you are on the right path, in other words NOTHING. The process of letting go is particular to each individual and their style in handling things, some people need cold turkey, others baby steps, other fall deeply ill, others go out and wreak havok, others need the kick in the head boilling point, others give up and take their own lives. Human beings ALL react differently to crisis.

 

Lastly, it's not my style to backseat drive, if the driver loses his way and needs me to look at the map or watch out for signs I am all there and ready and willing to offer my assistance, otherwise he's running the show because when someone is driving there is nothing more annoying than a backseat driver.

 

Different styles really...

Can I just clarify some issues? And I speak as an observer of SD (as well as others).

 

Everyone likes Stamp, even most BSs because they recognize that his love is real. He does not appear (I did not say 'he isn't') to be a womanizer or a home wrecker. He fell in love with a woman who fed him sweet promises of a future. We feel for someone like that. We support someone like that.

 

We all throw in little aspects of how we see the sitch because we feel others can glean from that perspective. I for one love that experience. It is like drinking Chateauneuf du Pape instead of the boxed wine.

 

As for kids, we all have deep, deep love for our kids. We don't want to expose them to unpleasantries, but sometimes we allow it if we feel we will pass up the love of our life otherwise. But, the love must be very strong and the risk worth taking. The point is, most of us know what we're doing. Rarely has there been a story of children getting physically hurt over an affair. Emotional pain can come but also be overcome. On this I speak from experience.

 

I suggest if there is an issue on the pain suffered as a child from a parent having an affair to start a new thread on the subject. I would gladly chime in:)

TC and WF... I hear you. I speak from experience too. Just respectfully disagree. Know SD's type all too well. I understand and appreciate your defense of this person as you know him on LS. Peace.

TC and WF... I hear you. I speak from experience too. Just respectfully disagree. Know SD's type all too well. I understand and appreciate your defense of this person as you know him on LS. Peace.

what exactly is my type?

I didn't quote you did I?

But if you felt identified by some of what I said....

 

He probably will talk to her again. Ok, so? He is a grown man that is figuring his stuff out and he will do it in his own way at HIS own pace, If people are getting frustrated because he doesn't follow specific "orders" than who is this really about him or the rest of us?

 

Today he may be doing things that are deemed as damaging to himself, but in that experience something very valid is comming to light and this is what some fail to see, he is becoming AWARE. Awareness is a great place to start in buidling a NEW reality, a new relatity created by the self and with conviction not by circumstances out of control. And a change doesn't happen in a day or even in any particular cookie cutter time lapse, it does as a person gains more introspection.

 

Ever consider all the flip flopping is actually what is giving him introspection?

 

On what is good advice and what is not, mehh...it's all relative really...telling someone move on get over it does for the other person as much as telling them continue in the A you are on the right path, in other words NOTHING. The process of letting go is particular to each individual and their style in handling things, some people need cold turkey, others baby steps, other fall deeply ill, others go out and wreak havok, others need the kick in the head boilling point, others give up and take their own lives. Human beings ALL react differently to crisis.

 

Lastly, it's not my style to backseat drive, if the driver loses his way and needs me to look at the map or watch out for signs I am all there and ready and willing to offer my assistance, otherwise he's running the show because when someone is driving there is nothing more annoying than a backseat driver.

 

Different styles really...

Thanks for all that but I am not going to respond because SD asked us to stop and it's his thread. We obviously disagree and I am not here to argue with you. I was just trying to help SD and say that his actions and sometimes inaction frustrate me. I am entitled to that opinion, thanks!

TC and WF... I hear you. I speak from experience too. Just respectfully disagree. Know SD's type all too well. I understand and appreciate your defense of this person as you know him on LS. Peace.

I hear you too, I just don't see how what I am doing is considered enabling or "handholding" with a negative connotation to that. I mean people act on their free will and they can take on all the advice or ways in which to handle a situation all they want but utlitmately they make the choices, isn't hand holding allowing a person to make their own moves in order to get to the other side? There is a threshold though, if the actions are all contradictory then that's a different story, I don't see ALL contradiction I see willingness to move forward with setbacks.

I speak from experience too. I know what worked for me and what didn't. When people (as in) my loved ones who NO ONE tried to help more than them would say to me move on he is not worth it blah blah blah I just wanted to tell the world to F'OFF really LOL I mean if it were that simple we just would. You have to process things in your brain and come to your own conclusions. AND the important things is that he IS taking the right steps towards a better future for himself. We shouldn't lose sight of that contradictions and all. It won't be forever eventually the setbacks will be few and far apart and then none.

NO one wants to be the spectacle in a weak and very fragile moment, a lot of us have pride and we want to be able to act in a way that makes OURSELVES proud let alone others, but the hard fact is sometimes the more you try the less you can. Every thing we embark on, good or bad in life is a journey and we only learn to handle it from our level of suffering and experience through it, words of wisdom are great but we all heard many words of wisdom before we got involved yet that did not stop us then what would stop us now? I just think you need to ride it out til the end even if you make moves that bang your head against that wall, you will learn because eventually the pain becomes unbearable. THAT'S the breaking point. I see S-d's breaking point and I am more focuses on that than the setbacks.

As I mentioned earlier different styles that's all. I have no problem with different points of views and I am not claiming any advice any more valid than the next but speaking from experience I am a believer that no matter what you will do it your way. Criticising someone for their setbacks is not going to make them stop if they are determined to keep letting it happen, but it might just make them stop talking about it. As long as he is reaching out it means he is working though it.

What I mostly don't understand is why people were getting so frustrated, this isn't about them it's about Stamp?

I will get there, no doubt about it, because I AM STAMPDADDY!

When you want it to be done, it will be done.

Peace and good luck.

When you want it to be done, it will be done.

 

Peace and good luck.

Thanks.. That is what I am figuring out.. what/when/where/how etc.. It is a big deal.. I have loved this person unconditionally for a very long time, I had hope and seen a very beautiful future for MYSELF with her and our children.. There are SO many details, so fine and minute, that I have to believe some people just dont get.. We werent a "motel affair", she was my best friend... and now it is gone, just flat gone, and it hurts and I am sad and I miss her (the her I knew).. BUT, the HER I KNOW NOW, I cant stand.. so this will help me..

BUT, the HER I KNOW NOW, I cant stand

I'm sure her husband feels the same way.

Stamp, I never got a chance to comment about her visit on Friday.

You know that any contact with her...ANY contact with her...is still contact.

And it still keeps the situation going...and it still keeps you from moving on and healing.

I think that the message she's getting from you is that you still want her, still want a relationship with her. I don't think she 'gets' that you're telling her that your DONE with the whole thing.

Make sure that you send a clear, consistent message...even if you don't feel that way. Otherwise, this is going to go on and on...she'll fuel off of your waffling and keep doing the same thing on her end. And this will go on forever.

Make sense?

Stamps MW kind of reminds me of matty's OW............Scary.

Stamp's MW reminds me of MM's W, back when she was the MW and he was the OM...

Stamp, I never got a chance to comment about her visit on Friday.

 

You know that any contact with her...ANY contact with her...is still contact.

 

And it still keeps the situation going...and it still keeps you from moving on and healing.

 

I think that the message she's getting from you is that you still want her, still want a relationship with her. I don't think she 'gets' that you're telling her that your DONE with the whole thing.

 

Make sure that you send a clear, consistent message...even if you don't feel that way. Otherwise, this is going to go on and on...she'll fuel off of your waffling and keep doing the same thing on her end. And this will go on forever.

 

Make sense?

yes, it makes sense.. and I definately DO NOT want those kind of visits.. What WAS beautiful is now ugly.. She is a pityful mess, and yes, while caring about her, the only thing I can do to "help her" is exactly what you are telling me. FORCE HER TO SEE THE REALITY OF HER LIFE..

yes, it makes sense.. and I definately DO NOT want those kind of visits.. What WAS beautiful is now ugly.. She is a pityful mess, and yes, while caring about her, the only thing I can do to "help her" is exactly what you are telling me. FORCE HER TO SEE THE REALITY OF HER LIFE..

Great advice you're giving yourself. She needs to understand with clarity what she is doing to all involved and what she risks/is losing.

Stamp, I never got a chance to comment about her visit on Friday.

 

You know that any contact with her...ANY contact with her...is still contact.

 

And it still keeps the situation going...and it still keeps you from moving on and healing.

 

I think that the message she's getting from you is that you still want her, still want a relationship with her. I don't think she 'gets' that you're telling her that your DONE with the whole thing.

 

Make sure that you send a clear, consistent message...even if you don't feel that way. Otherwise, this is going to go on and on...she'll fuel off of your waffling and keep doing the same thing on her end. And this will go on forever.

 

Make sense?

Here is where I am though, I DO WANT HER! But, I do know that I have to "act" like I don't.. I definately DO NOT want what were were/are, AN AFFAIR. So I can say that, BUT I DO WANT HER, I want her to get hit with a boulder of TRUTH and UNDERSTANDING.. please figure this out and do the right thing... There will be a time where I figure things out too, but it is NOT today...

I can understand to a degree...love doesn't often just "go away". It either fades over time, or it turns into something else.

You love is in the process of turning into something else. You're realizing what kind of woman she REALLY is. Look at the way she's treated her H...remember, actions, not words are the true measure of a person.

I know that the vast majority of OP refute this, but having seen so many 'repeat stories' on this site and others, I'd caution you to think about this...

You KNOW that she 'loved' her H at one point. She was as "in love" with him at some point with him just as much as she was more recently "in love" with you.

And look at what she's doing to him now. Look at her ACTIONS...she's cheated on him, she's continually lied to him, even to the point of asking YOU to help her maintain those lies so that she didn't have to face/deal with them.

Can you NOT see that she could just as easily be doing this to YOU (instead of him)?

There's no way to KNOW that she won't do the same thing to you at a later date. Bluntly...I know that OP hate to hear this, but here's the bottom line.

What she is doing demonstrates her values...demonstrates what kind of person she is when 'caught'.

Is THIS the kind of person you want?

What you WANT is that 'fantasy' of a MW that you had prior to getting caught. The problem is...that 'person' is gone...forever.

Now you've got WW (wayward wife) on your hand instead. Is THAT the person you're in love with?

Really?

Go back and re-read what you've posted about her in this thread...look at the adjectives you've used to describe her, the adverbs that you used to describe her actions. What do they tell you?

You're getting to a point where you're disgusted with the person she is NOW. You'r realizing she's not the person she WAS (during the affair). You saw the PART(s) of her that she wanted you to see during the affair. You didn't see THIS part of her then...nor did you likely see a lot of the OTHER negative aspects of her then.

You really need to get NC for life established...move on...so that you can heal. Its not EASY...but it is doable.

You're doing great, man. I'm just giving you a "nudge" in the right direction.

OWL and any other BS out there who feels the same way in what OWL just posted, and who also stayed with their straying partner I would really like to know this:

How did you talk yourselves out of feeling all the disgusting things that Stamp for example is seeing in his OW, when it came to your cheating partners? Because you all seem to want to talk him into feeling something he doesn't completely feel now, today on his own free will yet when it came to the disgusting acts your own partners did you found a way to forgive them and not cling on to those feelings of disgust? So when you tell him to see her for who she really is do you speak from experience and if so how did you handle that yourselves in your own situations? And if you too were able to see your partners with eyes of digust why did you stay with them?

so how exactly did you overcome this yourselves:

Can you NOT see that she could just as easily be doing this to YOU (instead of him)?

 

There's no way to KNOW that she won't do the same thing to you at a later date. Bluntly...I know that OP hate to hear this, but here's the bottom line.

 

What she is doing demonstrates her values...demonstrates what kind of person she is when 'caught'.

 

Is THIS the kind of person you want?

I really want to know that.

Stamp, I saw that you posted this on another thread, and I wanted to discuss it here in your thread:

Well my experience is that the EXIT Door was blocked.. and now she is stuck.. AND she WILL lose us both

How was the door blocked? Did he lock her up? Break her legs so she couldn't leave? I don't see how he "blocked the door".

I see that SHE didn't open the door and go out on her own. When faced with the choice, she wanted him to hold the door for her...and when he refused to do so, she got stuck.

She's been cake-eating with you for FOUR YEARS...she's had amply opportunity up to this point to exit if she wanted to.

From what you've posted, it appears to me that the door has always been there...she's wanted to be thrown out of the door rather than walk out on her own. And faced with that choice...you see where she is today, right?

This has been HER choice...and her actions.

Stamp, I saw that you posted this on another thread, and I wanted to discuss it here in your thread:

 

 

 

How was the door blocked? Did he lock her up? Break her legs so she couldn't leave? I don't see how he "blocked the door".

 

I see that SHE didn't open the door and go out on her own. When faced with the choice, she wanted him to hold the door for her...and when he refused to do so, she got stuck.

 

She's been cake-eating with you for FOUR YEARS...she's had amply opportunity up to this point to exit if she wanted to.

 

From what you've posted, it appears to me that the door has always been there...she's wanted to be thrown out of the door rather than walk out on her own. And faced with that choice...you see where she is today, right?

 

This has been HER choice...and her actions.

Yeah, it didnt come out right. In NO way did I mean "blocked" by someone else, hell, he opened the door for her a couple of times...

Again, OWL how did you come to terms with this yourself and were able to overlook your new reality:

What you WANT is that 'fantasy' of a MW that you had prior to getting caught. The problem is...that 'person' is gone...forever.

 

Now you've got WW (wayward wife) on your hand instead. Is THAT the person you're in love with?

 

Because let's face it THIS THE EXACT same thing you had to accept yourself, your W in NOT who you thought she was. I would like to ask you the very same question:

Is THAT the person you are in love with?

I am having a hard time, YES, with thinking that I "know her" deep inside, my heart seems to, and yes lately my mind is seeing other sides.. I am having a hard time with "what causes someone to start acting like they do?". I mean, is this "really who she is?" A week or 2 ago, I looked over at her, and 'saw her". deep through her eyes and into her soul, I saw who she really is.. And YES, I LOVE WHO SHE REALLY IS. can she come back to life? I don't know. Not today I dont. Maybe tomorrow my heart will catch up with my brain.

But for today, I still love her and hope she is coming back down to earth. And I do feel a sense of responsiblilty, nobility, culpability, and many other "bilities..."

I am having a hard time, YES, with thinking that I "know her" deep inside, my heart seems to, and yes lately my mind is seeing other sides.. I am having a hard time with "what causes someone to start acting like they do?". I mean, is this "really who she is?" A week or 2 ago, I looked over at her, and 'saw her". deep through her eyes and into her soul, I saw who she really is.. And YES, I LOVE WHO SHE REALLY IS. can she come back to life? I don't know. Not today I dont. Maybe tomorrow my heart will catch up with my brain.

But for today, I still love her and hope she is coming back down to earth. And I do feel a sense of responsiblilty, nobility, culpability, and many other "bilities..."

Totally understandable, wanting what is best for yourself in terms of taking the right actions to improve your life does not necessarily mean you have to hate the person in order to do this or even stop loving them suddenly. SURE it is easy to walk away and cut all ties when you hate someone, but if you hated them why in the world would even have an A with them?

If people could just focus on that, the idea that all this inquisition that is going on re: "don't you hate her? how could you love her? why don't you despise this person? how could you seriously still think you want a future with them?" all the other IRRELEVANT questions that are thrown out here in order to understand what? should really be asked of yourselves if you are now in a rel. with someone who cheated on you. The answer to all your questions here is ALL under your own nose.