My life is a mess.

I’ve been killing myself thinking this through. I cant eat, sleep or think coherently.

I have a girlfriend. She entered into my life a year before I ran to medical school. We loved each other so much, and although she never wanted me to go to an offshore medical school she never complained nor gave me her opinion, instead gave her blessings.

Once in medical school, I try to give her a calls every other day, but its difficult to have real conversations as the voice quality via skype is terrible (bad internet connection) and our conversations are cut short because I have to get back to studying.

She always sacrifices herself for my happiness by never complaining about the situation, the fact she has to wait 8 years for me to marry her, and to top it all off my Indian parents don’t want me to do anything to do with her. I have a 2 week break every 4 months, and i only end up seeing her 3-4 times. A lot of this has to do with my parents constantly finding ways for me not to see her. And when i do see her, theres anyways some drama my parents create to ruin my time with her.

This has been going on for a year and a half. I recently found out, she is depressed, cries every night, is slowly becoming bitter to other couples, has the doctor trying to persuade her to take anti-depressants, she has been an insomiac for a year because she cant stop thinking about our relationship and how to fix it. When I confronted her about what different people have been telling me about her situation, she said she never wanted to tell me because it would only make me feel guilty. She explained part of falling in love for someone is putting your needs below theirs. She told me many times she would do anything for me.

In the beginning of medical school I was struggling because I would constantly think of her. Overtime I had to suppress my feelings of longing for her and focus on work. Overtime, I became really good at it. This eventually had its toll when at some point last semester, I started to wonder if I really love her since I don’t think of her often nor do we meet up often when I return for 2 week break. I didn’t know 100% and I kept convincing myself that I did love her completely and kept telling her on the phone that loved her to really believe it myself. Overtime I gained my love for her back but this took some time.

I told her yesterday there were a couple of weeks where I wasnt sure if I loved her and she broke down. She thought it was never possible for either of us to doubt our love for each other. To add to this, her best friend of 15 years just left her (boyfriend manipulation). She is beyond depressed.

My parents don’t make it easy on me as they try to lock me in the house and tell me what a terrible son I am, how I've brought shame to the family, and how they’ve disowned me. My life feels like a mess. Part of me feels if I love her I should keep trucking through. Other part wonders why bother when it seems all I’m doing is making her life terrible. We’ve only been 1.5 years out of 8 more years to go. I don’t know how much she can handle.

I failed a semester in medical school and had to drop another semester due to recent medical reasons. I'm planning on going back in Jan 2010. She finally told me now her heart wants me to stay in Canada and not leave, but in the end she thinks i should do whatever makes me happy and she will support me whatever way she can. Financially, its impossible for me to not go back to another semester at medical school since all my stuff is there and it would take 12-15 luggages to carry to stuff back home.

I know this sounds all over the place. What should i do?

Well absolutely no one can tell you what to do. Only you and her can decide what is best for your relationship.

It sounds like there are a couple of things going on. First of all your gf needs to get some help with her depression. You want the best for her and the best isn't happening. This can be done through medicine, a psychologist/counselor, and family support. But in order to have a healthy relationship you need to have healthy individuals at least mentally.

A huge misconception she has is that because you fall in love you put your needs below the other person's needs, that is very very wrong in any relationship not just romantic ones. She needs to find what makes her happy and continue to live her life. That's the point of being in an LDR you are both in love and are a part to live your dreams or what not. You need to tell her that what she wants is just as important to you because you love her. Then have her tell you, and try to find a compromise.

The second thing that you two need to work on is communication. Yes you talk but are you really talking and listening? No because she's holding in feelings and not telling you because she doesn't want to hurt you. That's understandable but in an LDR you can't keep quiet about insecurities, fears, and feelings. You need to voice them, both of you do. You can do that without hurting eachother the point is to get things out in the open not hurt one another.

The other thing you need to work on is making the most of the time you do have with each other. You said your parents take up your time. But you also said that you are in Medical school so you must be old enough to make your own decisions?? No? Instead of having your parents plan your stay make it a point to make concrete plans with her before you get there once you get there tell your parents you have plans on certain days you don't have to say with who but you have plans they need to respect that.

You said you almost forgot that you loved her because you weren't thinking about her to avoid missing her. But that's something you shouldn't be avoiding. You miss her, acknowledge it don't ignore it. Acknowledge your feelings always but move on don't dewl on them. Even though you are far from her you can do things to show her that you love her. If you can text her through out the day to say hello or I miss you or I love you. Send her flowers (yes they die and are expensive at times but a small arrangment can do wonders). Send cards go to your local grocery store and buy cards that remind you of her and send them to her. Keep yourselfs connected there's no reason why you should feel disconnect! Oh and can she visit you at Medical school? What kind of distance are you facing? Countries apart? States apart???

The whole getting married in 8 years, you need to stop worrying about. Worry about how the present is going and how to make it work otherwise you will continue to feel so overwhelmed.

As for what should you do, well what do you want to do? What do you feel is right in your heart? What does she want??

Hopefully something from this helps you!

After all, any relationship, also LDR, should make you both happy in a way and not make you feel bad. And obviously for both of you it's a burden at the moment, even if you love each other.

8 years - is that really a perspective? I think in another thread here when being asked what people think might come out of their LDR nearly everybody said they need to have some kind of ending point of this situation in sight. For sure love makes possible a lot of things, but from what you are telling it seems like both of you are not able to handle it at the moment. You try to protect yourself by stepping back from it, she is getting a depression.

And I guess you are both still quite young - do you really want to sacrifice all this time? I think if you really want to keep going with this, you should try to find a way to be together earlier. LDRs often mean compromises - in your work life and in your social life. Is there any possibility for her to come there and live with you for some time? Or other way round?

Or maybe just take a break and try to find out if you really want to maintain sth when you are both suffering all the time. LDRs can work out, but you need to have some realistic estimation about your future.

Wow, thank you for the quick replies!

I'm sorry for my late response. I had surgery on Friday and am still in bed with lots of medication keeping me drowsy.

As for her depression, i speak to her as much as I can. She does a great job always thinking of every possible sceario and focusing on the negative ones. Her family has always been terrible support.

Shes been having the worst of luck for a while. Her best of friend for 15 years just ignored and befriended her. She graduated as a paramedic last April and has been tryign endlessly to get a job. The shoe-in job just called and denied her. The next job opening will be in Spring 2010. I told her recently that i questioned my love for her a brief period of time. She says she feels all the bad news is happening at once. I try my best to speak to her but i feel my support only goes so far over the phone. I'm going to suggest her to also see a psychologist.

she's holding in feelings and not telling you because she doesn't want to hurt you. That's understandable but in an LDR you can't keep quiet about insecurities, fears, and feelings.

>>>She says that she doesnt want to tell me because i dont handle bad news of her well. She says it distracts and makes me very sad for her (its true) and she doesnt want that. I still implore her to tell though

Instead of having your parents plan your stay make it a point to make concrete plans with her before you get there once you get there tell your parents you have plans on certain days you don't have to say with who but you have plans they need to respect that.

My parents dont respect any privacy. They intrude and constantly demand they know where i am with who i am with. We have fights lasting hours everyday. They play guilt trips on me by crying and dont eat for days explaining they cant eat because the amount of stress i'm causing them. They go on to tell me how i am a failure to the family. The list goes on...

You miss her, acknowledge it don't ignore it. Acknowledge your feelings always but move on don't dewl on them. Even though you are far from her you can do things to show her that you love her. If you can text her through out the day to say hello or I miss you or I love you.

>>>Your absolutely right. I'll plan on doing just that.

8 years - is that really a perspective?

>>>Yup

 

"For sure love makes possible a lot of things, but from what you are telling it seems like both of you are not able to handle it at the moment. You try to protect yourself by stepping back from it, she is getting a depression

>>>Ya, a part of me started to think of breaking up to stop her from waiting and feeling empty everyday without me. I feel guilty for causing so much to her. But breaking up with her will make her more sad.

>>>(I dont plan to) but if i ever would want to break up with her, i know now isnt the right time now since shes a so many problems going on in her life. She feels very alone and klings to me as her only life support. I cant abandon her, I'm all that shes got as a best friend to talk to.

Why don't your parents like this girl?

Why don't your parents like this girl?

Oh i forgot to mention, shes Caucasian and my parents are Indian. They dislike her for a variety of reasons

-she cant speak hindi

-they feel she will bring great shame to our family as our relatives and friends will speak down on my parents for alllowing this to happen

-they assume because shes Caucasian that she will easily give up if our relationship turns soar and want a divorce fast

-they accuse her for being sweet for now until she gets what she wants (marry me)

-they accuse her of only wanting to be with me because I am training to be a doctor

Of course all of this is far from the truth but they wont believe a word of it. It basically come down to them judging her by the colour of her skin, racist i know. I really makes me sick thinking about it.

You have been given some good advice above. However, I have a somewhat different perspective about your relationship and feelings for your girlfriend. As I read through your letter I get the distinct impression you are trying to talk yourself into staying with her even though you don't actually want to. Your relationship with her seems to have become a burden you have to carry and she is using any means she can to manipulate you into staying with her. You have questioned yourself, had doubts, talked yourself back into loving her and you end saying how you can't break up with her or abandon her now because of how she is feeling. This isn't a healthy relationship for either of you.

I believe she has a controllling quality about her and is using guilt to keep you with her. Some clues are to be found in the fact she has made sure to tell "different people" about her situation and they have all approached you on her behalf. It is my strong belief she did so intentionally as a means to manipulate you knowing they would discuss this with you. Making sure you were told by others has the added benefit of making her appear to be a martyr sacrificing herself for you. I would be careful if I were you. If she didn't want you to know, she would not have told so many people. I believe her intent was to make sure you heard it. If circumstances are as you say, then consider a break from her. The fact you have to ask strangers is all the proof you need. She has you believing you are her only means of life support, and this is not a healthy way to enter any relationship. When you see her are her eyes bloodshot, bags underneath....? You can't stay with this girl out of pity, and you aren't the cause of it.

QUOTE]When I confronted her about what different people have been telling me about her situation, she said she never wanted to tell me because it would only make me feel guilty.

>>>Ya, a part of me started to think of breaking up to stop her from waiting and feeling empty everyday without me. I feel guilty for causing so much to her. But breaking up with her will make her more sad.

>>>(I dont plan to) but if i ever would want to break up with her, i know now isnt the right time now since shes a so many problems going on in her life. She feels very alone and klings to me as her only life support. I cant abandon her, I'm all that shes got as a best friend to talk to.

About your parents, they are racist. When you lump a whole group of people into one tightly wrapped negative only package, that is just wrong. You occasionally hear people who equate all Muslims with terrorists and that just isn't the case either. People don't often associate racism or hate crimes as being against caucasians but it is very common. I wonder if you do or don't confront your parents on their racism, or why you allow them to control your actions since you are old enough to go away to medical school. Respecting your parents is good, enabling them to keep you glued to them is not. Your girlfriend and your parents are waging a war over you and you have the means to stop it. None of them are thinking of what is best for you. Don't be fooled.

I sometimes come here to read people's problems but this is the first time I have posted. I feel sorry for you, I am Indian too and I am watching my brother go through the same thing. He has loved a white girl since he was in high school. She always helped and supported him, and me too anytime I needed her. She loved my bro when we lived in a basement and had nothing of our own. She was great with kids and my parents liked her in spite of themselves. But my parents are making him marry an Indian girl for the same reasons your parents don't want you to be with a caucasian girl.

Personally, I liked the caucasian girl better. Besides, she wasn't after his money and she got her own Univ. degree and job. They loved each other when my brother had nothing and her family had more money than we did.

The brown girl and her parents hadn't met my brother but they chose him because he just finished his schooling and will have a prestigious job and we are related. His skin colour is lighter brown. My parents chose the brown girl for the colour of her skin and her degree. Just like you, it makes me sick to think about it. His white girl was better, smarter, prettier, kinder and more fun to be around. She had better morals and values than my brother.

My brother used to say he would never do that but the pressure and guilt they put on him is like nothing you have seen before. He has changed now and is starting up on me to go Indian so I don't shame them. I have a caucasian boyfriend. I know he still loves the white girl so why does he do this? I catch him looking at her picture sometimes or touching something she gave him. He was always excited to be around the caucasian girl and would run to the phone, and he doesn't act that way with the brown girl. I know he doesn't love her. I will run away and shame them before I let them force me into marrying someone and shame myself just so they can brag.

I have some questions about you.

-are you an only child?

-You listed biases, but what do your parents say about her personality?

-Do you speak Hindi? - My parents moved to an English speaking country when I was young and I don't speak Hindi. My brother was older and he can, I can't. I just know a few words and phrases. A lot of my cousins don't speak it and nobody in the family thinks that is a problem. I assume your parents speak English so communication shouldn't be a problem unless they make it one. She can learn to speak Hindi if she wants just like they learned to speak English. My parents would want a white girl to speak Hindi but they refuse to listen that I don't.

-sacrifice herself? What is it with all this self-sacrifice, self-martyrdom? I keep hearing about this recently. It is ignorant letting someone use you or walk all over you like a doormat with no mind or goals of your own. Does she expect you to be impressed with her suffering in silence? Except, she tells you she is doing it so it isn't silent so what is the real deal? Does she want you to give up the same for her? I ask because you said she thinks this is what you should do when you love someone.

She needs to get a temp job until she can find a better one. She should volunteer or help the needy. Do volunteer work for free somewhere that goes along with her training. It looks better on a resume than sitting there being jobless with an empty resume. If they ask what you have been doing for the last six months, you need to have something good to say.

-life support? maybe it is because you have had to defend her to your parents, but you make her sound too perfect. So, perfect that instead she sounds needy and spineless. You said she is clinging to you. Some guys like the needy, helpless, clinging woman bit because it makes them feel important, stronger and more like a man. Do you? If you don't, you shouldn't let her play that role because it isn't a healthy role to play. She spends too much time thinking about herself or feeling sorry for herself. She says you, but it comes out me, me, me instead.

Life support? If you feel she is suicidal, get her some help PRONTO! She needs to learn how to be an independent person before she can learn to love herself or give love to someone else. You can't help her if you let her cling to you. She needs to learn to stand on her own two feet. Encourage her to go out and make some new friends. Get a life for herself. Is there a reason why she only had one friend plus you?

-you skimmed over the boyfriend manipulation. Nobody gives up a 15 year friendship for no good reason. What was your gf's part in this? Did she flirt with her friend's bf? Come onto him? Get drunk and kiss him? Did she use him to make you jealous or to make herself feel better or worthier? She did something. Girls can tell.

Have you watched parents and relatives when they want to arrange a marriage for their child or take part in arranging one for a relative? If you have, what is it they do first?

-They look for someone who can give them something. A doctor would be at the top of this list. If your gf wants you because you will be a doctor, an Indian parent would want you for that reason too even if they didn't know anything else about you. ..same thing isn't it and my parents just did that

-they want a brown person with light skin because they are prejudiced against darker skinned brown people...and whites, and blacks, and

-they look for university degrees or prestigious jobs

-looks? I think they don't care as long as he has money

-age? They give the girls some old, disgusting men as long as he has money

- money, colour, jobs, social status.

-kindness? I don't think they do because we have had some mean ones, and I have never heard them say I chose them because they are nice. I just hear what they have to brag about.

-love...they don't care about that at all, just money, finances.

-they look for a relative WHY?

-divorce? Who would dare, we would shame them more. My aunt was beaten by her husband but they said she would shame them all if she divorced him so she was pressured and she stayed to be beaten again. How can you respect that? I think divorce is less shameful.

-do your parents literally lock you in the house? I ask because some of them do and it isn't a joke.

I love my family, but man they are wrong.

Good luck guy. Heal up from your surgery and go back to med school. You will always be sorry if you don't. Post again so we know how you are doing.

"I believe she has a controllling quality about her and is using guilt to keep you with her. Some clues are to be found in the fact she has made sure to tell "different people" about her situation and they have all approached you on her behalf. It is my strong belief she did so intentionally as a means to manipulate you knowing they would discuss this with you. Making sure you were told by others has the added benefit of making her appear to be a martyr sacrificing herself for you. I would be careful if I were you. If she didn't want you to know, she would not have told so many people. I believe her intent was to make sure you heard it. If circumstances are as you say, then consider a break from her. The fact you have to ask strangers is all the proof you need."

You raise some legitimate concerns and given what i have written, I can see how you can come to those conclusions.

I need to clarify. Her former best friend emailed me a few months ago urging me to do something new because the toll of me being away for months is having on her. My girlfriend (J) was upset at her for telling me anything because she tried hard to keep it a secret from me. The other person was my best friend who noticed that J. was acting more depressed every time he saw her.

It wasnt until i confronted her about it over and over and over did she finally tell me the extent of my departure was having on her.

 

"When you see her are her eyes bloodshot, bags underneath....? You can't stay with this girl out of pity, and you aren't the cause of it."

 

>>>Your right. I shouldnt stay if its because of pity. I should stay if nothing else in the world means more to me than to be with her.

-are you an only child

No. I have an older brother. Similar to your story, my brother was in a 8 year relationship with a Caucasian girl. He broke it off with her eventually simply because he felt it couldnt work (based soley on her skin colour my relatives and parents wouldnt approve and therfore he interpreted it would bring shame to him and our family)

It didnt matter that she was trying to learn Hindi, that she promised she will try to raise their kids as Hindu children. That she will do everything in her power to make it work.

Hes now ready to do a ring ceremony with a brown girl he met a few months ago.

You listed biases, but what do your parents say about her personality?

>>>They dont care. They dont want to know becuase then they will find out shes human. My mom once heard J laughing in the background when i was speaking to her and my mom on the phone, now my believes J is vulgar. (My mom is old fashioned in the sense that it frowned upon indian women laughing out loud). I am thinking of inviting J for dinner and telling my parents last minute.

-Do you speak Hindi?

>>>I also moved to Canada when i was young and speak Hindi sparely. I understand it quite well. J is registering herself to take Hindi classes in the winter.

Except, she tells you she is doing it so it isn't silent so what is the real deal? Does she want you to give up the same for her? I ask because you said she thinks this is what you should do when you love someone.

>>>She told me she would never ask me to stay in Canada and sarifice my career for her. She told me her hearts wants me to stay but she wont ever stop me.

She needs to get a temp job until she can find a better one. She should volunteer or help the needy.

>>>She volunteers in a bunch of places.

-life support? maybe it is because you have had to defend her to your parents, but you make her sound too perfect. So, perfect that instead she sounds needy and spineless. You said she is clinging to you. Some guys like the needy, helpless, clinging woman bit because it makes them feel important, stronger and more like a man. Do you?

>>>I guess i do make her sound perfect. Shes very indep as she payed for her own education and owns a car. Her parents never cut her any slack as they want their children to be 100% independent. But she does cling to me now because shes afraid i'd leave her when everything else in her life seems to be falling apart (lost best friend and cant get the paramedic job)

Encourage her to go out and make some new friends. Get a life for herself. Is there a reason why she only had one friend plus you?

>>>She does have other friends but she didnt see a point to hang out with him because she had her best friend to hang out with. She is going to start seeing her old friends now. She told me that a couple of semesters ago when she was working, enjoying her hobbies and going out that she always felt empty. I dont know what to say to that.

Nobody gives up a 15 year friendship for no good reason. What was your gf's part in this? Did she flirt with her friend's bf?

>>No, no. I didnt want to get into that drama...

Her best friend recently went through surgery. After the surgery some parts of her body were 'fixed' and now suddenly men are after her. She got a boyfriend instantly and that boyfriend always said and did things to hurt J. Instead of her best friend defending J, she let her boyfriend continually insult J.

What hurt J the most was her best friend never defending J, always making excuses for the boyfriend and stopping J from saying from saying anything back to the boyfriend. Overtime the best friend ignored J and made up excuses of being too busy. After weeks of never seeing her best friend, J got the hint and is moving on.

Have you watched parents and relatives when they want to arrange a marriage for their child or take part in arranging one for a relative? If you have, what is it they do first?

 

-They look for someone who can give them something. A doctor would be at the top of this list. If your gf wants you because you will be a doctor, an Indian parent would want you for that reason too even if they didn't know anything else about you. ..same thing isn't it and my parents just did that

 

-they want a brown person with light skin because they are prejudiced against darker skinned brown people...and whites, and blacks, and

 

-they look for university degrees or prestigious jobs

 

-looks? I think they don't care as long as he has money

>>>Yes, yes and yes.

On the bright side, my parents kept telling me as they try to break my relationship that they will allow me to marry any girl as long as she brown.

A few things have happened. My parents threatened they would stop funding my medical school if i kept my relationship with J. I held my ground and told them that it doesnt change a thing between me and her.

My parents didnt budge in their decision. So for awhile it seemed that i really wasnt heading back to medschool in January. I told this to J and she began telling me how I can live with her family and how they would support me if i want to do additonal education at the university near their home.

J had told me she doesnt know how she can take another year of me being gone where i come and visit every 4 months. She told me she would rather I stay and try redoing my exams and some courses and start applying to med school in Canada instead. With my parents telling me they would stop funding me this idea of J seemed very probable.

Finally today i called my parents bluff and told them that it wouldnt make sense for them to cut it off. My parents finally softened and explained they were trying to use any bargaining tool (including funding medschool) to make me stop being with her.

Once J found out about the news of me planning to go back in Jan, she became very sad and told me with her teary face that she will support me and as long as i'm happy. I am feeling loads of guilt right now and feel like my needs are always over passing her.

After speaking with her part of me feels i dont deserve her because i consistently do things that serve my interests not hers. She is always giving, putting her life on hold for me and constantly waiting.

I'm getting the feeling that if the relationship was really special and important to me that i would have stayed in canada because I know it would make her happy. Knowing full well how this lonliness is having a toll on her, i still proceed to pursue med school.

I feel ashamed, selfish and embarrassed. Do u guys think she even deserves me? I feel i should end her misery tomorrow and break it off. I hate having guilt.

Oh i forgot to mention, shes Caucasian and my parents are Indian. They dislike her for a variety of reasons

Sorry to have to say this, but you should tell your parents that if they don't like Canadian women then to leave Canada and go back to India and raise their kids, where there will be sufficient Indian mates for their sons/daughters to marry. With all due respect, we don't want them here and that's the truth but many Canadians and Americans won't say that because they don't want to be mean.

Seriously, your folks are living in a country founded by caucasians (white europeans). Actually the Native Indians were the first settlers, but I doubt your parents would approve of native women either. Your parents and similar minded Indians need learn to better assimilate into the country they chose to call home, and stop meddling in their son's affairs.

And let me tell you, you had better make a break from this family and get a place of your own because it sounds like they are going to ruin your future with all this stressful and anxiety causing interference.

 
[b][i]No. I have an older brother. Similar to your story, my brother was in a 8 year relationship with a Caucasian girl. He broke it off with her eventually simply because he felt it couldnt work (based soley on her skin colour my relatives and parents wouldnt approve and therfore he interpreted it would bring shame to him and our family)[/i][/b]
[b][i]It didnt matter that she was trying to learn Hindi, that she promised she will try to raise their kids as Hindu children. That she will do everything in her power to make it work. [/i][/b]
[b][i]Hes now ready to do a ring ceremony with a brown girl he met a few months ago.[/i][/b]

I wrote a reply to you and lost it all after I pressed submit reply because they had logged me out. Now I am starting over.

Our situations are very similar. I was surprised. There must be more of us out there than I thought. All two of us, are there more?

I cried for your brother and my brother, my bro's white gf, your bro's white gf, and I cried for you and me when I read this. I don't know why except it just seemed sad and futile suddenly. There is no hope for us is there because nobody can or will stand up to them for long?

All the parents and relatives surround you and are in your face yelling at you all at once. They do insult you in the cruelest ways possible, they did to my bro too. You feel like you are being held in a prison camp where they work you over for hours and hours day after day. They keep you from sleeping long until they break your will. It should be outlawed as child abuse or harassment or a form of torture. I know some people out there will think I am exaggerating but I am not. Everything is about appearances and to He** with anything else.

I read about religious cults and how they treat their followers and sometimes I think that is exactly what we are doing because there are so many things in common. They own all of us and nobody has any freedom except maybe the older men but they lost their true freedom when they were younger.

I asked where our religion says to force kids to marry for money and only brown and it doesn't. We are supposed to honour all differences and colours. This isn't done for religious reasons.

I know if I marry a brown guy I will lose more freedoms. I will have to go to his family to live in their house and they can do whatever they want to me and I will have to take it. It is worse for the women than it is for the men because men can have some power after they are married and the woman can be made into a slave by her husband and his parents and she has to suck it up and take it. My aunt was beaten, and she is a good lady. You don't know how it will be for you and it is a terrifying proposition to me.

If you marry a man who beats you...too bad for you because your job is still to make him look good and serve him so your parents look good and you don't bring shame to them. But, don't get a divorce or you will shame them. It is crazy.

I know you want help with your gf, but unless we can fix things or make them see what they are doing is racist, bad and WRONG, and break this cycle of terror, control and abuse, we won't make progress and they will be mean to her and to you.

You know if you marry your gf and have to live with your parents, which is expected, they can make her life miserable to punish you and her if they want to. In our culture, they would have the right of it. So if we can make sense of it maybe we can come up with something we can learn from our experiences and take from it to help in our own situations.

The reality on my side:

- my bro's white gf loved him for himself when we didn't have much, his brown gf barely knows him and she and her family are using him. My parents, her parents and now my bro are using the brown girl.

-his white gf had parents who were never divorced, grandparents who were never divorced and great grandparents who were never divorced. So, they had no history of bailing out of a marriage. She is beautiful, smart, hard working, honest and everything my parents should have wanted for my bro. My bro was very proud of her because she turned heads wherever she went but she was gentle and kind and not conceited at all. I mentioned divorce because you said your parents think your white gf will divorce you. I think divorce would be better and less shameful than a beating they make an indian women take.

-my bro still loves his white gf.

-religion is not the reason it is being done

-my bro hardened his heart and has turned on me now to make me marry a brown guy and not white bf. -why?

[i][b]>>>They dont care. They dont want to know becuase then they will find out shes human.[/b] [/i]

I am sorry for you. I want to help but I am not quite sure how to yet. Do Indian parents love their kids? Do they know how to love their kids or is this all there is? Sometimes I am not sure because even if their daughter gets beaten they are more worried about appearances than if she gets killed or injured from the beatings. If that sounds mean, what they do is worse letting a woman suffer like that to 'protect' the beater and parents reputations. We wouldn't want to shame a man who beats up women would we? Why? Isn't he the attacker and her his victim? Why don't they go after him?

Sorry, this is supposed to be about you and your gf and offering suggestions to help you, but is it ok to ask about your brother since he compares to my bro? This is recent and I am still working through all of the emotions.

-How did you feel about your bro's decision?

-what was your opinion of your bro's caucasian gf and how do you feel about her? Did you like her?

-does your bro support you with your white gf since he had one for so many years? there is strength in numbers, you could have each other's backs. I thought that would be my bro and I. We would support each other, but he gave up and I am alone with it. - My bro has changed and his heart is hardened. Now, he joined with my parents to force me to give up my caucasian bf and marry brown so I don't humiliate our parents, and let's not forget we wouldn't want to have our relatives embarrassed.

-does your bro still love his white gf like mine does? He gave her up but does he still love her?

-did your parents or relatives put pressure on him to marry brown like they are you...is that why he broke it off with his white gf?

-do you like the brown girl? I liked my bro's caucasian gf better. I loved her like a sister and my parents liked her too. They couldn't find fault with her, just her colour would shame them and our relatives. She was better than some of our relatives, most of them. actually.

-how did your bro's white gf take the breakup, how is she handling it? -my bro's gf felt a complete betrayal and she was betrayed. They had been engaged. My bro still loves her but now he has to try to hide it from our parents...and the brown girl.

-do you still have contact with your bro's white gf? I still do mine. Like I said, she was like a sister to me and I won't abandon her. My parents would feel more secure with her out of the picture so I think they know he still loves her, and I think when I mention her my bro feels guilt and doesn't want me to mention her but I do anyway. She is suffering, and it is right for him to feel guilt and shame for how he treated her. ...and, he thinks it is ok to try to shame me now for being with my white bf. So, I say let him feel shame instead. I am not doing anything wrong being with a white guy. He is good, decent, hard working and doesn't do drugs. He treats me with respect, and frankly most Indian guys think they can order me around because I am a female beneath them..

I was thinking as I typed this that you could use the religious angle for your attack and defense. I am assuming your parents are religious like mine but maybe they aren't. If they are, find the scriptures and read them to your family because appearances may be important to relatives but they don't work with God.

On the bright side, my parents kept telling me as they try to break my relationship that they will allow me to marry any girl as long as she brown

GRRRRRR...this makes me mad and I am brown.

I wrote the above on notepad after I got kicked offline because I didn't want to risk losing it typing online. I just read your update and Midnight Rider's comment and frankly, I agree with him. They came for a better life and now they are dissing on the people that are giving them the chance for a better life. I read back where I had even said something about 'our culture', and he made me realize we aren't in our own culture anymore and our parents SHOULD adapt and assimilate to their new home and new culture! They wanted a better life...so they should KNOW it is better here than the older Indian life they left behind. That makes a good argument for you to use to your parents. Shame and guilt 'em back...and have no mercy. I think you give me courage to stand up to my fam.

I am very emotional about this probably because it is so close to home. I cried again when I read what they said to you, and I cried again when you stood firm. I WISH YOU WERE MY BRO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or like he used to be.

You asked about staying with her, and the guilt they have caused you to feel, and darn it !!!!!!!!!!!! Make them feel guilty and ashamed of themselves because they SHOULD. Midnight is right, they meddle...the grandparents meddle and tell the parents what to do, the uncles meddle and tell what to do...sometime they should all mind their own business. I would applaud if I ever heard my mom tell them to mind their own business! Aren't mom's supposed to protect their kids and not sell them out?

You keep asking if you should stay with her, and it keeps making me think you are staying with her because you do feel guilty if you left... and you are not leaving her because you feel guilty.... so be sure it is love. I know you love, care, but are you actually in love? Reactant, you are a good guy. Why aren't your parents proud of your accomplishments and why do they only diss you?

Stay firm!!!!!!!!!!!!! You give me hope!

I am sorry you are having to go through this. I read this last night and felt so angry I thought I would wait until today to reply. All that accomplished was to keep myself awake with this being tossed around all night long inside my head. There are so many separate ssues happening here that I am going to take more time to write than I usually would. What you choose to read or what you do with it is up to you.

I was blessed with loving parents. They had more than enough room in their hearts for all children. Our house was a home filled with kids from all races and my parents didn't care one bit about the color of their skin or how much or how little money they had. They were all treated the same. They cared less what race I dated or married so long as he treated me well. If I had chosen a guy who was blue they would have looked for the good inside of him and bragged about and felt proud of what a unique and colorful son-in-law they had. That is unconditional love for your child. This other is selfish and hateful and has nothing to do with love....nothing.

Notice the difference and compare it to what your parents are doing to you. Your parents are teaching their children to look down their noses at someone different from them. This isn't a lesson you want to learn.

IMHO, your first step is to challenge your parent's belief system. Personally, I would make it tough on them to hold their position on these issues. Challenge them! Keep the pressure on them turned up on high. I don't mean shouting, I mean pressure like water flowing against a rock so you can erode their prejudices away and make it difficult for them to hold onto them. If you feel contempt toward them because they are racist and hateful; then it is ok to say you feel contempt because that is an honest emotion. But tell them why, say it firmly, matter of factly and then hold your ground.

The second step is to educate them as to why this is wrong morally, ethically, and spiritually, and if it isn't illegal perhaps it should be because I consider it no less than a hate crime against their own children. If they are religious like Sadgati said, use that too. Reach inside yourselves and give this the fight of your life, because essentially that is what this is.

I know of no religion which teaches you to hate, and when you go to the root of the matter, that is what this is about, hate. You can find individuals who try to teach it, corrupt it, or practice hate in almost every religion, but you don't listen to them, turn directly to God and His word, not the twisted rantings of sick-minded people.

About your brothers, I don't understand this and I tried. Why would they become racist now after all of those years? It seems they didn't feel that way at one point in their lives and were innocent...... But, your parents managed to do it to them and took away their innocence and purity. They have corrupted them. I would suspect your parents have been working on them and against them for years. They were more pliable than you, and apparently more subservient.

If these were my brothers and they treated another human being in such outrageous, contemptible and egotistical way; I would go back up to step 1 and 2 I mentioned above and teach them a thing or two. Abuse of all kinds is most often learned from one generation to the other and passed on to your children. My grandma would have said they are putting on airs. They are being pretentious, and who they think they are isn't the reality according to their behavior. They need to be taught more loving ways, so help them.

I am reminded of white supremist groups, terrorist groups, gangs, etc., which are founded out of hate for another person because of their color, religion or the country they came from. Who taught them to hate so much that it grew this way? That hate and bias can all start from one individual and grow. Isn't that what your parents are doing? Teaching you and forcing you to look down on another human being because they have the wrong color skin? What comes next? If you love your brother, fight for that brother too as hard as you can. He needs you now more than ever. Dissolve that armor around his heart and let him love again. Teach him not be shamed into a marriage just to please someone else.

Your parents are in a country they chose to move to, using the system to better themselves while prejudicing their children against the very people they have come to seek help from to better themselves. Are they teaching you it is ok to steal from the system too? Their morals and values have become questionable IMHO. After all, they weren't beneath blackmailing their own son.

I understand this will be more difficult for you Sadgati than perhaps Reactant because you are a female, but women around the world have had to fight for their rights for a very long time now. But, you can do this! They can not legally make you marry any man you don't choose to. Go to the courts and use them if you have to. Make them understand that you will be willing to embarrass them publicly rather than be forced into a marriage you don't want. Stay strong. Move away if you have to.

Keep in mind any embarrassment they feel will be their problem not yours...this goes for both of you. Their embarrassment is NOT your problem. You might want to tell them that.

The laws clearly say a husband can not beat his wife. If your parents or relatives don't stop your aunt from being beaten, then call the police and let them take care of it. If they get angry at you, well I would bet that your aunt is thankful and you may have saved her life. To allow such a thing and let your aunt suffer is merciless. Should she die from beatings they ignored, I would consider it aiding and abetting a murder on the part of your family. You have no choice but to help her.

Keep in mind what this fight of yours is all about, saving all of your lives mentally, physically and morally. Teaching love for another human not hate. If you work hard at this, you might even redeem your brothers from their doomsday wedding before it is too late. It is very serious. I feel for those two white girls who loved them for so many years.

Reactant, you mentioned your parents concern for divorces or leaving if things don't go well. Look at those two white girls who stuck it out with both of your brothers for all of those years. Who bailed on who? Your two brothers that is who. It seems both sets of your parents two Indian sons bailed, not the white girls. Essentially, your brother's divorced them for no reason you said other than the color of their skin. If this is considered a bad thing to your parents, have them look at what their sons did. It was the white girls willing to stick it out and work on the relationship, not the Indian boys. This puts one of their arguments to shame, as the two white girls showed both of the brothers up. I would make sure to point this out to them and rub it into their faces.

Reactant, you are a fine son. Don't doubt yourself. Their intentions are to make you feel guilty. Ignore it! The guilt is on their shoulders. Since they are the ones on the attack, attack back and make them see that. You are studying to enter a fine profession and they are being very hard on you.

Eight years is a very long time and circumstances may change. Why all this urgency from your parents to threaten you with your studies now? Why are they doing this just after you had surgery? They need to stuff a sock in their mouths and let you get on with your studying and your work and heal. You may find you don't choose to marry this girl as the years go by.

Also, you still continue to question if you should be with her or not. It looms in your mind. Stand your ground with your parents as this issue is important no matter what choice you ultimately make for your future... but don't trap yourself with your parents or with your girlfriend.

The truth is, your girlfriend is doing her best to make you feel guilty too. She is also making you feel beneath her and ashamed, guilty and unworthy by the way she interacts with you. They each want what they want from you, your parents and your girlfriend. You are being torn in two opposite directions and you need a break from it.

The truth also is that this is harder on you than it is on her so don't let her fool you. You are fighting to defend yourself against your parents, (she isn't) you are healing up from surgery, going to med school and trying to please your girlfriend and your parents at the same time. Someone needs to give you a break and let you rest during your time off. Your family needs to think about your well-being FIRST! I am shocked and amazed about how they are treating you so cut yourself some slack.

In fact, you could use a break from all of them.. Go somewhere alone for a few days where you don't have anyone on either side pressuring you or guilting you, and leave your phone turned off. Take some time to relax, heal up and think through this yourself. Figure out what you want. It is YOUR life.

If you made it to the end, best of luck to you, and let us know how you decide.

I also happen to have very open minded parents. But they choose to be that way because they want to be the opposite of how their parents treated them. Their situation was definitely not the same as the two of yours, but very similar in how my dad's family treated them.

They got engaged a month after meeting each other (a little early if you ask me, but they're still together and happy after 25 years) and my dad's family FREAKED. He has six sisters and one brother, and ridiculously controlling parents. They were hard core Catholic back then, and the main reason they were upset with my parents was because they wanted to move in together before being married. His parents did crazy things like showing up at my dad's place and ripping him a new one in front of his friends and my mom... on his birthday. and a lot of other things that my dad chooses not to talk about to this day.

Pretty much every single one of my dad's siblings went through this sort of abuse regarding the people they dated or married, all based off of "broken rules" under Catholocism. They all went through periods of being disowned and frowned upon by the rest of their siblings. But my parents stuck it out and made it work despite all of the heavy blows that came from his family.

I guess what I'm trying to say with this story is that it is possible to make it work. You have to stand your ground and do what you feel is right for YOU. If you want to be with your white SO, then be with them and ignore those horrible things that your families are telling you.

I really wish there was an easy fix to your situation, but there isn't. Just follow your heart. Only you can make things better for you.

But we're all here for moral support any time you need it.

A few things have happened. My parents threatened they would stop funding my medical school if i kept my relationship with J. I held my ground and told them that it doesnt change a thing between me and her.

 

My parents didnt budge in their decision. So for awhile it seemed that i really wasnt heading back to medschool in January. I told this to J and she began telling me how I can live with her family and how they would support me if i want to do additonal education at the university near their home.

 

J had told me she doesnt know how she can take another year of me being gone where i come and visit every 4 months. She told me she would rather I stay and try redoing my exams and some courses and start applying to med school in Canada instead. With my parents telling me they would stop funding me this idea of J seemed very probable.

 

Finally today i called my parents bluff and told them that it wouldnt make sense for them to cut it off. My parents finally softened and explained they were trying to use any bargaining tool (including funding medschool) to make me stop being with her.

 

Once J found out about the news of me planning to go back in Jan, she became very sad and told me with her teary face that she will support me and as long as i'm happy. I am feeling loads of guilt right now and feel like my needs are always over passing her.

 

After speaking with her part of me feels i dont deserve her because i consistently do things that serve my interests not hers. She is always giving, putting her life on hold for me and constantly waiting.

 

I'm getting the feeling that if the relationship was really special and important to me that i would have stayed in canada because I know it would make her happy. Knowing full well how this lonliness is having a toll on her, i still proceed to pursue med school.

 

I feel ashamed, selfish and embarrassed. Do u guys think she even deserves me? I feel i should end her misery tomorrow and break it off. I hate having guilt.

Technically I am new to posting, but I lurk around the forums.

It basically come down to them judging her by the colour of her skin, racist i know. I really makes me sick thinking about it

You have told them this right? Their racism makes you sick? If you haven't, put your money where your mouth is. So far all I see you doing is playing defense and it is time to play offense and tell them like it is.

-they feel she will bring great shame to our family as our relatives and friends will speak down on my parents for alllowing this to happen

Be a man and tell it like it is. They make you feel sick because your parents AND brothers are all a bunch of racist, weak-kneed, spineless, cowardly, low-down, immoral, lying, bullying, spineless, yellow-bellied sap suckers, kissing your relatives butts and you are ashamed of watching them crawl on their bellies in the dirt to lick and kiss all over their butts. It is embarrassing and shaming you having to watch them kiss a$$. Make some threats of your own. Tell them you are going to speak down on them for allowing this to happen to you and your brother, and they all need to grow a backbone.

You live in a free country now where relatives can't tell you what to do or order you around.

There should be an immigration clause where you get auto-kicked back to where you came from if you think you are better than the people of the country who LET you live in it.

This puts one of their arguments to shame and null and void, as the two white girls showed both of the brothers up. I would make sure to point this out to them and rub it into their faces.

Tell them what Sparkling said too. Two white girls showed more class and loyalty than they did!!! They didn't run away scared with their tails tucked between their legs!

cluck...cluck...cluck... chick - ens!

Technically I am new to posting, but I lurk around the forums.

It basically come down to them judging her by the colour of her skin, racist i know. I really makes me sick thinking about it

You have told them this right? Their racism makes you sick? If you haven't, put your money where your mouth is. So far all I see you doing is playing defense and it is time to play offense and tell them like it is.

-they feel she will bring great shame to our family as our relatives and friends will speak down on my parents for alllowing this to happen

Be a man and tell it like it is. They make you feel sick because your parents AND brothers are all a bunch of racist, weak-kneed, spineless, cowardly, low-down, immoral, lying, bullying, spineless, yellow-bellied sap suckers, kissing your relatives butts and you are ashamed of watching them crawl on their bellies in the dirt to lick and kiss all over their butts. It is embarrassing and shaming you having to watch them kiss a$$. Make some threats of your own. Tell them you are going to speak down on them for allowing this to happen to you and your brother, and they all need to grow a backbone.

Sure they will be pi$$ed off but they are pi$$ed off with you now and you haven't done anything wrong. Make this your own, add some expletives of your own. It is all the truth. In the process you might teach them something.

You live in a free country now where relatives can't tell you what to do or order you around. You are of legal age if you are attending med school, so your parents can't either.

There should be an immigration clause where you get auto-kicked back to where you came from if you think you are better than the people of the country who LET you live in it.

This puts one of their arguments to shame and null and void, as the two white girls showed both of the brothers up. I would make sure to point this out to them and rub it into their faces.

Tell them what Sparkling said too. Two white girls showed more class and loyalty than they did!!! They didn't run away scared with their tails tucked between their legs! Those white girls had the stamina and staying power, not the Indian boys. Who was scared and ran away with their tails tucked between their legs? The Indian boys...their own sons!! Did they learn their cowardice from your parents?

cluck...cluck...cluck... chick - ens!

P.S. Tried to delete my older post, but I was too late. Sorry.

I'm sorry for the late reply. I'm laying in bed most of the days and recently the new pain meds have been making me fall asleep/drowsy.

 

If you marry a man who beats you...too bad for you because your job is still to make him look good and serve him so your parents look good and you don't bring shame to them. But, don't get a divorce or you will shame them. It is crazy.

 

>>>Sadly, this is true. They would often warn me that marriages in the western families end up in divorces 50% of the time and emphasize that India's divorces rates are very low. The reason for this is quite obvious and like Sadgati mention, its all about status and not putting shame to the family.

 

You know if you marry your gf and have to live with your parents, which is expected, they can make her life miserable to punish you and her if they want to. In our culture, they would have the right of it.

 

>>>J and me spoke about that and she has agreed them coming over eventually. I dont know how my parents will treat her. My parents tell me they dont want to be in the home with her and will stay with my older brother. But i assume once their health deteriorates they'll end up wanting to come to my house given my profession. I do want to care for them, i just worry the treatment J might receive.

 
So if we can make sense of it maybe we can come up with something we can learn from our experiences and take from it to help in our own situations.

>>>Sounds good.

 
he is beautiful, smart, hard working, honest and everything my parents should have wanted for my bro. My bro was very proud of her because she turned heads wherever she went but she was gentle and kind and not conceited at all.

>>>same with my brother, he was very proud telling his friends he had a Caucasian girlfriend. I think at the root of the matter is about pride and status.

When my brother was in university, it was status booster to be with his girlfriend because she made him look good plus them being mixed draws more attention. This would reinforce my brother to be with her. Take away the pride and the status when u add my parents to the equation and suddenly it doesn't look like its worth it i guess. I found a lot of Indians (including me to some extent) care very much about how we are perceived, this needs to change. I just wish i knew how.

-my bro hardened his heart and has turned on me now to make me marry a brown guy and not white bf. -why?

>>>I dont know why. I guess he believes he went through the hard decision, thought of the possibilities and wants u to follow his footsteps. If u dont, you'll make him feel more guilty.

This occurred on my end as well. My brother will be arriving home from law school next week but as i recall, he was the most verbally abusive and manipulative of the family. He knows how to break people, so i'm gonna need to prepare myself for his soon dreaded arrival.

"Do Indian parents love their kids? Do they know how to love their kids or is this all there is?"

>>>I never questioned for a moment if my parents loved me or not. I know they do and i'm sure yours do as well. I think we should look at the context of the society they have grown up in vs the western culture we've grown accustom to. I think they are doing what they think is the right thing.

If that sounds mean, what they do is worse letting a woman suffer like that to 'protect' the beater and parents reputations. We wouldn't want to shame a man who beats up women would we? Why? Isn't he the attacker and her his victim? Why don't they go after him?"

>>>I'm sorry your relatives are allowing this. Pride and status are very powerful forces. This is part of the reason why my parents cry in front of me every night. They are concerned about the amount of relatives and friends that will look at them differently, shamefully when they find out I'm with a Caucasian girl. Their status in the community, friends and family will drop. Of course they are looking at it literally in the doom's day perspective.

-does your bro support you with your white gf since he had one for so many years? there is strength in numbers, you could have each other's backs. I thought that would be my bro and I. We would support each other, but he gave up and I am alone with it.

>>>Sigh. I was really hoping he would support us, but he can be worse than my parents.

Here is a sample of the reasons he told me a while back (not my words, his):

-your parents have given everything for you. They given up their luxurious lifestyle as university professors in india to come to canada to each work 2 full time dead end jobs.

-they dont have a life, they work all day (this is true), save their money and do everything they can so we can have a comfortable life and have opportunities other people dreamed about.

-they sacrificed their life for you and this is how you are going to repay them back.

- Imagine whats going in their mind when they sacrificed their entire lives working in jobs they hate, to think that all this hard work was for nothing. I would rather die than to have parents doubt even for a second that they wasted their life coming here and slaving themselves for us.

-Your mom hasnt eaten in days, your dad cant sleep at night and is sleeping in work all because of the stresses your causing them.

-does your bro still love his white gf like mine does? He gave her up but does he still love her?

>>>He broke up with her i believe 2 years ago (i forget). 3 months ago she told me that my brother still had feelings for her and that he told her that he loved her, which is a bit twisted i know.

-did your parents or relatives put pressure on him to marry brown like they are you...is that why he broke it off with his white gf?

>>>My memory is foggy. I remember my brother going on fights with my parents, i think it was about her. My brother told me he fought mom and dad but they were resistant to the idea of him marrying her. A few days ago, my dad later denied that he ever asked him. So i dont really know.

"do you like the brown girl? "

>>>I never met her. I'm not in Canada much. I'm sure shes a nice person.

"how did your bro's white gf take the breakup, how is she handling it? "

>>>she has been sad since. She tells me she will never forget him and will always love him.

He treats me with respect, and frankly most Indian guys think they can order me around because I am a female beneath them..

>>>Really? I didnt know there were a lot of those kinds of young indian guys in the western world.

 
"I was thinking as I typed this that you could use the religious angle for your attack and defense. I am assuming your parents are religious like mine but maybe they aren't."

>>Yes i have a secret weapon. I contacted a hindu preist (punduth) who is on our side and believes my parents are being too "selfish." He gave me his contacts and told me to have my parents contact him. He explained that 80% of the peopel he marries together are mixed people.

"Shame and guilt 'em back...and have no mercy. I think you give me courage to stand up to my fam. "

>> I dont know what i did but thank you. Its really refreshing to find someone else in similar shoes. People are always shocked when they find out my brother isnt on my side.

"You keep asking if you should stay with her, and it keeps making me think you are staying with her because you do feel guilty if you left... and you are not leaving her because you feel guilty.... so be sure it is love. I know you love, care, but are you actually in love?"

>>>I think you pretty much nailed it.

I dont know anymore. Maybe its the guilt that left me confused. One of my friends tells me my guilt clouds my thoughts and i end up making many rash decisions.

I'd like to share some new developments that have occurred

Aside from the prejudice views my parents share there is another issue i should given attention to is my guilt.

The guilt looming on me about how i've treated J became exponentially huge after i told her I was heading back to medschool in Jan (given i heal in time). She cried, held her tears, became upset but ultimately accepted it and told me she would always support me.

The guilt continued to loom in me and i couldnt sleep nor study. I began to think that my continued relationship with her was only making her more depressed. The being in this relationship was doing more harm than good for her. I even thought so far that i didnt deserve her because of all the pain and misery i continue to bestow on her. The fact that i choose to go to medschool in January despite her telling me she wanted me to say made me question my love for her.

We talked for a while and finally she paused and began to apologize. She told me it was her fault. She explained that shed been looking at everything negatively and would always focus on the things shes doesnt have. She was putting a lot of her anger and pain about losing her best friend on me. She resassured me she would be far happier if i was with her than not. Now this got me really confused and i ended not breaking up with her, but still unsure if i love her.

Thats the thing, how do i fight so hard against my parents when i'm not even sure if i love the person i'm fighting for? Sparkling noticed this and this was her comment:

 

"Also, you still continue to question if you should be with her or not. It looms in your mind. Stand your ground with your parents as this issue is important no matter what choice you ultimately make for your future... but don't trap yourself with your parents or with your girlfriend."

 

I will continue standing up to them whether i love my girlfriend or not. Because its about the principle, to establish my future and independence.

Many of you commented how it seems shes pressing guilt on me. As if her entire happiness rests on my shoulder. Now i see that his is completely absurd. I shouldnt have felt as much guilt as I had. Thank you guys for helping me see this!

"Personally, I would make it tough on them to hold their position on these issues. Challenge them! Keep the pressure on them turned up on high."

I've always held my ground about what my parents tell me to do. Though u would not beleive how thick skinned they are when i apply logic. When I try to reason with them.

Take my dad for example. We're Hindus and part of the hindu culture is not to eat any cow meat as the cow is veiwed sacred in our religion. However my dad has no trouble buying leather products made of a cow.

I tried to explain how this act could be seen as contradictory. He became very frustrated and angry. He didnt see anyhting wrong for killing a cow for its leather but refused to eat the cow cuz its sacred animal that shouldnt be killed. <<----This is the type of person i'm trying to discuss logic with.

"first step is to challenge your parent's belief system. Personally, I would make it tough on them to hold their position on these issues. Challenge them! Keep the pressure on"

>>>They dont to hear it. Il keep telling them but I think they know deep inside what they are doing is wrong.

"The second step is to educate them as to why this is wrong morally, ethically, and spiritually, "

>>>I've contacted a Hindu priest who agreed to speak to them and discuss this matter. The priest also believe i have the ultimate right to choose.

"About your brothers, I don't understand this and I tried. Why would they become racist now after all of those years? It seems they didn't feel that way at one point in their lives and were innocent......"

I dont think i would view my brother as a racist. He thinks theres nothing wrong with Caucasian people. He looks more at the functional consequence than anything else.

How the act of having a mixed marriage would have an impact on our parents. Its our relatives who will get nasty at them and pick on them. In Indian society, family and relatives are close (all my relatives live in the same street as me, 5 family relative homes in one block). My parents are very close with them.

Believe me i have many relatives who will ripp on them and verbally abuse them. They will be close to outcasts as if they committed adultery.

"Keep in mind any embarrassment they feel will be their problem not yours...this goes for both of you. Their embarrassment is NOT your problem. You might want to tell them that."

>>>I want to believe you. But my actions have a direct impact on whether they will be social outcasts with friends and relatives. This is how the indian society is structured and my parents have no wish of changing it. Its not like they see their relatives bi-annually and can ignore them. All of my cousins, aunts, uncles live in our street so we see them everyday. My parents care very much what others think of them.

"If you work hard at this, you might even redeem your brothers from their doomsday wedding before it is too late. It is very serious. I feel for those two white girls who loved them for so many years."

>>I dont think he wants to redeem himself. He doesnt talk about his old fiancee or wishes to. Hes done a great job forgetting and moving on. He solemnly thinks what he is doing is the right thing for the long run.

"Who bailed on who? Your two brothers that is who. It seems both sets of your parents two Indian sons bailed, not the white girls. Essentially, your brother's divorced them for no reason you said other than the color of their skin. If this is considered a bad thing to your parents, have them look at what their sons did. It was the white girls willing to stick it out and work on the relationship, not the Indian boys"

>>>Thats an excellent point. I never thought it that way before. I'd be sure to point that out next time i have a fight later on tonight.

"Why all this urgency from your parents to threaten you with your studies now? Why are they doing this just after you had surgery?"

>>>I dropped the semeter due to the much needed surgery. Before i dropped, I was barely passing one of the courses and it is their belief that J is hogging up my time and hindering my school work. They believe it is urgent i drop her so i can have a 'fresh mind' when i go to school in Jan 2010.

"They need to stuff a sock in their mouths and let you get on with your studying and your work and heal. You may find you don't choose to marry this girl as the years go by."

I tell them i need to study and rest while i'm at home. This activity is my only fortitude.

"Also, you still continue to question if you should be with her or not. It looms in your mind. Stand your ground with your parents as this issue is important no matter what choice you ultimately make for your future"

Your right, and thats why i continue standing up to them. It hard. Its the hardest thing i've done to see my parents cry everday, say hateful things to me, tell me they're disappointed and look at me as if i've ruined their life and became satan. They were never this way before. They were very loving and giving.

My dad keeps reminding me that a wife doesnt marry the husband but marries the family as well. They dont want to associate with her family. On a side note my mom did speak to J's mom one time over the phone with her broken English and felt J's mom very disrespectful.

I guess what I'm trying to say with this story is that it is possible to make it work. You have to stand your ground and do what you feel is right for YOU. If you want to be with your white SO, then be with them and ignore those horrible things that your families are telling you.

Thank you. I really needed to hear that.

How does the multi-quote button work? When I press it, nothing seems to happen? I was just curious.

Reactant, It was good to hear the update, I was concerned about you.

>>>Sadly, this is true. They would often warn me that marriages in the western families end up in divorces 50% of the time and emphasize that India's divorces rates are very low. The reason for this is quite obvious and like Sadgati mention, its all about status and not putting shame to the family.

I have been doing a little research about this. It seems the Indian marriages are NOT more successful than those in western society. They are NOT happier than those in western society. They just don't allow you to divorce except for a couple of reasons and then like Sadgati said, not even those always apply even if you are beaten. ...which is supposed to be one of the reasons you are allowed to divorce; but they still say you will shame them and make you stay? Staying married to someone who treats you with disrespect so you don't increase the divorce rates is ignorant. I wouldn't be proud of that.

Which is more important...the divorce rate or staying and being beaten, or staying and having your husband have the right to order you about telling you when to eat, when to sleep, what to eat, what to wear, how much to eat, don't laugh out loud, hang your head, don't look directly at me, don't voice your own opinion, when you can leave the house, have the right to beat you if he wants? Which one is ultimately more shameful or degrading in your opinion? Times are changing. They would rather have a couple trapped in a miserable marriage...than allow them to get a divorce?

The divorce rate is NOT and indicator of a good or happy OR successful marriage. There is a lot more to it than that. You are being TRAPPED in the marriage. Also, I see where the divorce rates are "rapidly increasing" in India due to women refusing to stay in relationships where they have no rights at all and are often mistreated. I lost the site or I would share it with you. It was based in India.

Actually, I don't believe the divorce rate has anything to do with the real issue at all. I think that is just another excuse and method of them trying to make Indians, themselves, look better than white people...another form of racism.

But, about that 'your culture, your society' they keep referring you to and using against you...they are not living in that culture any more, nor in that society any more. Your parents CHOSE to live in western society in western culture under western laws.

 
>>>same with my brother, he was very proud telling his friends he had a Caucasian girlfriend. I think at the root of the matter is about pride and status. 

When my brother was in university, it was status booster to be with his girlfriend because she made him look good plus them being mixed draws more attention. This would reinforce my brother to be with her. Take away the pride and the status when u add my parents to the equation and suddenly it doesn't look like its worth it i guess. I found a lot of Indians (including me to some extent) care very much about how we are perceived, this needs to change. I just wish i knew how.

So, you are essentially saying the root beliefs of your brother are:

1)your brother only uses people who can make him look good and gain attention for himself?

2)You are saying what is important to him is his pride and his status?

3)You are saying if he isn't the center of attention then the person he is with isn't worth anything to him anymore?

Now that you have stated that, how does your brother look to you? How do you perceive him? If you are like the rest of us, well, I will speak for me, not the rest of us...based on your statements above, he appears fake I perceive him to be someone I would not like to be around as he is artificial, superficial and he uses people for his personal gain. I would go so far as to say he seems narcissistic. There isn't a solid core to him at his root system. His root system is shallowly planted in the ground...narrow-minded.

I am thinking maybe your brother and your family should be a little more concerned how you appear to 'western society' and how they perceive you since you are living among us instead of disregarding us as beneath you.. If they continue along these racist lines, it doesn't bode well for them in life, or their religion. IMHO, these priorities your parents and brother have seem backwards to what should be important to them..

 
>>>I dont know why. I guess he believes he went through the hard decision, thought of the possibilities and wants u to follow his footsteps. If u dont, you'll make him feel more guilty. 

This occurred on my end as well. My brother will be arriving home from law school next week but as i recall, he was the most verbally abusive and manipulative of the family. He knows how to break people, so i'm gonna need to prepare myself for his soon dreaded arrival.

You told Sadgati her brother wants her to follow in his footsteps so he won't feel so guilty. I believe you nailed it for yourself too! That is what your brother is trying to do to you too. Have you been around peers who were using or drinking and you didn't want to so they try to talk you into it, pressure you...guilt you, shame you? Ultimately, it shouldn't matter to them if you say no or not, but it somehow makes them feel less guilty if they can force you into doing it too?

It is also about power and trying to control you. Basically, that is what your brothers are doing...using peer pressure and trying to control you. It can be a nasty thing, and very abusive and bullying.

Your own brother would manipulate you and bully you, abuse you and break you or others, and has done this before? Tell him to stuff a sock in it.

>>>I never questioned for a moment if my parents loved me or not. I know they do and i'm sure yours do as well. I think we should look at the context of the society they have grown up in vs the western culture we've grown accustom to. I think they are doing what they think is the right thing.

I don't agree. Well, I agree they undoubtedly love you but I don't agree they believe what they are doing is right. You actually don't either. Although your inclination is to defend them, in your heart you also know they know what they are doing is wrong. I have to search for the quote where you said you think they know deep inside what they are doing is wrong:

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkling [url="http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2535587#post2535587"][img=http://www.loveshack.org/forums/images/red/buttons/viewpost.gif][/url] 
[i]"first step is to challenge your parent's belief system. Personally, I would make it tough on them to hold their position on these issues. Challenge them! Keep the pressure on"[/i]

They dont to hear it. Il keep telling them but I think they know deep inside what they are doing is wrong.

So, keep challenging their belief systems and continue to make it tough on them to hold onto their positions like I said earlier...you may not think they hear you but you are planting seeds which might take root and grow. You do realize they know deep inside what they are doing is wrong. Remember that, it is a sign of hope for better things to come.

 
>>>I'm sorry your relatives are allowing this. Pride and status are very powerful forces. 

This is part of the reason why my parents cry in front of me every night. They are concerned about the amount of relatives and friends that will look at them differently, shamefully when they find out I'm with a Caucasian girl. Their status in the community, friends and family will drop. Of course they are looking at it literally in the doom's day perspective. 

Reactant, do you believe all those tears are being shed for you? Listen to what you wrote. THEY are concerned how relatives and friends will look at them. Read it again, and again until it makes you as mad as it does me. THEY are worried about how THEY will appear. THEY are worried ABOUT RELATIVES. (what about you?)

If that is all it takes to make another Indian treat you like sh^^, or all that matters to them, or all THEY care about, or all they have to talk about, then how can you or they respect them? Their social status centers on who you are with, and nothing else...? That makes them show me THEY actually believe all Indians are shallow, and they don't think very much of their integrity after all since that is the only thing they care about-appearances.

Why don't you use this in your fight? Point out how shallow Indians are. How judgmental, and use all of the negative reasons they gave you as to why they are AFRAID of their judgment to show them it is time to change thngs. You could tell them how mean they would be to treat them that way for only that reason, and use it as a way to make them look bad doing those behaviors to your parents.

There is nothing else that will matter to any of those relatives or any of those friends? ONLY ONE white person has the power to do all of that to all of those people. Wow! ONE white person has the power to take away all of the years of love with their family? If that were true, what does that say about your Indian culture they are so proud of? They are giving a lot of control into the hands of one white person.

 
>>>Sigh. I was really hoping he would support us, but he can be worse than my parents. 
Here is a sample of the reasons he told me a while back (not my words, his):

-your parents have given everything for you. They given up their luxurious lifestyle as university professors in india to come to canada to each work 2 full time dead end jobs. 
-they dont have a life, they work all day (this is true), save their money and do everything they can so we can have a comfortable life and have opportunities other people dreamed about.
-they sacrificed their life for you and this is how you are going to repay them back.
- Imagine whats going in their mind when they sacrificed their entire lives working in jobs they hate, to think that all this hard work was for nothing. I would rather die than to have parents doubt even for a second that they wasted their life coming here and slaving themselves for us. 
-Your mom hasnt eaten in days, your dad cant sleep at night and is sleeping in work all because of the stresses your causing them.

1) Why did they move to Canada? if all your brother said is true? Something is missing here. If they gave up luxurious lifestyles so their kids could have a better life, it doesn't sound like it was all that luxurious in India.

2)They work two FULL TIME jobs each? That leaves four hours left in the day. They wouldn't live that long if they did that year after year let alone a few months each day full time. That leaves four hours to travel to and from work, eat, sleep, clean house, raise their sons.... hmmm....

3) What an insulting viewpoint he has of your parents. He is looking DOWN HIS NOSE NOW at your parents and the work they have done, goals they have accomplished and dismissing them all in the most insulting, derogatory way. I am sure that wasn't his intention, but that is what he did.

Do you believe for one moment your parents had no life? They raised two kids who are part of their life, but that doesn't count? Have they never traveled, visited relatives or friends, , gone on a picnic, taken the scenic route on a drive, gone to church, attended festivals or parties, visited back in India? Your brother says this is NO LIFE? They have lived in two countries, traveled, raised two sons, but had no life. Their life has been a good life. Your brother is dismissing any other job as being a dead end job...and looking down on anyone who works those jobs as being nothing.

... and that no life hinges only on, or continues to become life IF you DO OR DON'T marry a caucasian girl? Uh-uh... This is one reason why I referred to him earlier as narcissistic. He uses this drama to glorify himself and become the important one, and is another method of being the center of attention. They aren't helpless victims sacrificing themselves.

Reactant, most all parents work to make things better for their children than what they had. Most all families do this very same thing and a great many are proud of it and proud of their accomplishments. He shouldn't belittle them and say they had no life and sacrificed themselves.

I have a horrible urge to call him a drama queen AND LAUGH HIM.

>>>He broke up with her i believe 2 years ago (i forget). 3 months ago she told me that my brother still had feelings for her and that he told her that he loved her, which is a bit twisted i know.

>>>My memory is foggy. I remember my brother going on fights with my parents, i think it was about her. My brother told me he fought mom and dad but they were resistant to the idea of him marrying her. A few days ago, my dad later denied that he ever asked him. So i dont really know. 

Oddly enough, I believe he did tell her he loved her. It fits his personality I have been hearing about.

Since he has also been in contact with her recently, there is something between them.

I am not sure why but I believe he does love her. I think this is why he has that anger he takes out on wanting to break you into doing what he did. It will make him feel justified and not alone.

You said he would abuse you and try to break you when he arrives. Ordinarily I wouldn't suggest this, but you are going through more than you should ever have to so I am going to put this out there and see what you think about it.

You can conduct your own test on him to amuse yourself while he tries to break you.

I would bring this girl into the equation, COMPLETELY

He can't try to tell you not to discuss her when he is discussing your relationship with your SO. He can so you can.

I think you should talk about her. It sounds as if you have maintained contact with her because she told you your brother told her he loved her recently.. ...and again, he has been in contact with her so use it.

So, IF you like her think of all the nice things she has said or done and discuss them. You say he is going to be trying to break you and discuss your personal relationship with you, so I suggest you talk about her in front of your relatives, your parents and anyone else around. Talk about what a great WHITE girl she was and anything else you can think to say.

The more you discuss white girls and bring them into the open around your relatives, the more accustomed they will become to hearing about them. Should they try to belittle you or them, use some of God's words on them and bring them back down to reality. Let them know racism is wrong in God's view too.

You know it will be wrong if he marries the new girl while he is in love with another girl..., so fight for her.

While he is trying to break you, you have a chance to break down his reserve..

Since he told his ex gf he still loves her, then he has no business marrying the new girl.

Every time he wants to talk about your SO, bring up his ex gf.

it might get him to shut up

Toss a bone to him and tell him his ex gf is more beautiful than his new one, or tell him she was nicer, or you liked her better...., whatever applies. Your concern now is not to help him marry a girl he doesn't love just because of her color so use whatever you can against him. I suspect your opinion of him will matter so make it a strong one against him. You have a lot to lose, so work it.

At the same time, you have a chance to find out the truth. He is concerned about what people think of him...use that against him to make him look bad.

>>>she has been sad since. She tells me she will never forget him and will always love him.

Here again is proof the white girl didn't bail or run away when the going got tough

Believe me i have many relatives who will ripp on them and verbally abuse them. They will be close to outcasts as if they committed adultery. 

You mean treat them the way your brothers and parents are treating you? They need to learn the lesson. It would serve them right.

 
>>Yes i have a secret weapon. I contacted a hindu preist (punduth) who is on our side and believes my parents are being too "selfish." He gave me his contacts and told me to have my parents contact him. He explained that 80% of the peopel he marries together are mixed people. 

YES!!!! GOOD JOB!!

Do you have other relatives or cousins who would be on your side? Sound them out and find out. Get all of them to work on their parents, or go together for an intervention.

I dont think i would view my brother as a racist. He thinks theres nothing wrong with Caucasian people. He looks more at the functional consequence than anything else.

Toward the beginning you said your brother broke it off only because of the color of her skin. He is racist. He gave you the speech about having to sacrifice your parents and how they had no life and would have no life if you married a white girl. He is extremely racist. He thinks there is a lot wrong with Caucasian people or he wouldn't accuse your parents of having wasted their lives if you marry a white girl. Reactant, that whole speech he gave was racist propaganda against white people. If he wasn't racist, he would be marrying the girl he loved, not the color.

>>I dont think he wants to redeem himself. He doesnt talk about his old fiancee or wishes to. Hes done a great job forgetting and moving on. He solemnly thinks what he is doing is the right thing for the long run.

Then why is he still in love with his ex gf and telling her? If you are able to break down the barriers, he might end up glad. I asked a very intelligent male friend what he thought, and he said under these circumstances there are only two reasons your brother wouldn't want to discuss her.

1. He is still in love with her and can't allow himself to have her because of his twisted way of looking at the situation

2. He is comparing her unfavorably to the new girl and he has to avoid it.

The more you discuss white girls in a positive way and bring them into the open around your relatives, the more accustomed they will become to hearing about them. Should they try to belittle you or them, use some of God's words on them and bring them back down to reality. Let them know racism is wrong in God's view too. You can't break down barriers by ignoring them or hiding them.

>>>Thats an excellent point. I never thought it that way before. I'd be sure to point that out next time i have a fight later on tonight.

Great! Let us know how it went over, or what new spin they can put on it.

 
>>>I dropped the semeter due to the much needed surgery. Before i dropped, I was barely passing one of the courses and it is their belief that J is hogging up my time and hindering my school work. They believe it is urgent i drop her so i can have a 'fresh mind' when i go to school in Jan 2010. 

Was that part of the reason? Or just another excuse to use against you?

I tell them i need to study and rest while i'm at home. This activity is my only fortitude. 

I still think you need a few days off alone.

Your right, and thats why i continue standing up to them. It hard. Its the hardest thing i've done to see my parents cry everday, say hateful things to me, tell me they're disappointed and look at me as if i've ruined their life and became satan. They were never this way before. They were very loving and giving. 

You are getting a look into their real personality, and it isn't pretty.

My dad keeps reminding me that a wife doesnt marry the husband but marries the family as well. They dont want to associate with her family. On a side note my mom did speak to J's mom one time over the phone with her broken English and felt J's mom very disrespectful.

At least your j's WHITE family is showing more courtesy than your family is. They are being shameful and ungracious. Have you told them? I feel more impressed with j's family than your own.

You have a quality which makes me want to invest my time trying to help you out or support you. You are a remarkable boy! If you were my son, I would give you a big hug.

I am glad your guilt has eased up. Hang in there!

I don't know how to make the multi quote thing work either Sparkling. Sorry. I am on the very new side here too. I just click until I find something that works, and some of it I am still not sure what it does.

Reactant;2536187]I'm sorry for the late reply. I'm laying in bed most of the days and recently the new pain meds have been making me fall asleep/drowsy.

Hey Reactant, are you feeling any better? Is the pain too unbearable? It sucks being sick and dealing with drama at the same time.

I just read all the new stuff. Sparkling already covered almost everything I wanted to reply to as I read it, and gave a lot of good suggestions. I wish I knew how to apply them better on my side.

I think I will try taking the suggestion about talking about my brother's old gf (white one) because it is true if he can harass and abuse me about his opinions about my white bf, I can fight back and tell him my opinion about his relationships and how he treated her.. as well as show contempt for the new relationship. I mean, I don't want to show contempt to the girl, just my brother for using her when she doesn't mean anything special to him. ... the status symbol girl who means nothing to him.

If he wants to make rules at me and tell me what he thinks, then he needs to follow his rules himself, or I get to tell him what I think. It makes me nervous thinking about it because when someone gets confrontational I back off usually because I get intimidated. It depends on my mood at the time too. I can fight back. I will be strong...I will be strong...

If I am lucky, like Sparkling said, or was it Reactant? said he won't like me discussing her because it makes him feel guilty and he will shut up and leave me alone. At least I can annoy him back! I bet he acts mad and starts making up a lot of stuff about why I am wrong or else he will just tell me to shut up he doesn't want to talk about her. I think he will get mad, but if he starts to yell I will smile or laugh, that should annoy him and get to him too!! I can tell him each time he thinks he has the right to hammer me about who I am dating that gives me the right to hammer him about his PHONY relationship.

But, if Reactant can take it and stand up to his family, I need to dig in deep and do it too knowing it is the right thing to do. Racism and prejudice are wrong. There is a lot of room for love in the world.

>>>J and me spoke about that and she has agreed them coming over eventually. I dont know how my parents will treat her. My parents tell me they dont want to be in the home with her and will stay with my older brother. But i assume once their health deteriorates they'll end up wanting to come to my house given my profession. I do want to care for them, i just worry the treatment J might receive. 

This is mean Reactant, and rude, and disrespectful to you. They would turn their back on you...their own son... because they are prejudiced. Maybe you should just tell them that is their choice so go ahead and turn your back on me because they are racist, at least you offered.

 
>>>same with my brother, he was very proud telling his friends he had a Caucasian girlfriend. I think at the root of the matter is about pride and status. 

When my brother was in university, it was status booster to be with his girlfriend because she made him look good plus them being mixed draws more attention. This would reinforce my brother to be with her. Take away the pride and the status when u add my parents to the equation and suddenly it doesn't look like its worth it i guess. I found a lot of Indians (including me to some extent) care very much about how we are perceived, this needs to change. I just wish i knew how

.

I get mad at your brother. I noticed I started scowling and my anger builds at him when you tell what he is saying and doing.

Personally, I think if you only care about what other people think about you, you will never know who you are because you will always only be whoever is around you or what whoever is around you expects you to be. You will act how they want you to, wear what they want you to, do activities they want you to and you lose yourself. You become them or who they want you to be but you aren't you any more. This happened to our brothers. They lost themselves.

I learned the Golden Rule about doing unto others as you would have others do unto you. If you wouldn't want someone to do it to you, then you don't do it to someone else no matter if someone else expects it from you. You have to have honour and integrity, show respect and love. There are some people who argue it means a mean person would want someone to do something mean to them so that rule makes it ok to do that mean thing to them. But, when they argue that, they are twisting the meaning of what it actually says. It doesn't say it gives you permission to force your will onto someone.

 
>>>I dont know why. I guess he believes he went through the hard decision, thought of the possibilities and wants u to follow his footsteps. If u dont, you'll make him feel more guilty. 

This occurred on my end as well. My brother will be arriving home from law school next week but as i recall, he was the most verbally abusive and manipulative of the family. He knows how to break people, so i'm gonna need to prepare myself for his soon dreaded arrival.

Hard decision? Was it a hard decision for them? I don't know anymore. I think they are anti-religious because God doesn't tell us to do this to people.

My brother is some of these things, well, a lot of them. But, breaking people? Your brother sounds BAD Axx, even worse than mine. My white friend, a girl, told me to suggest to you that you walk away from him when he goes at you. You don't have to sit and take it. Would he sit and allow you to speak to him that way?

 >>>I never questioned for a moment if my parents loved me or not. I know they do and i'm sure yours do as well. I think we should look at the context of the society they have grown up in vs the western culture we've grown accustom to. I think they are doing what they think is the right thing.

Do they love? Or do they use us? I don't know. I agree with sparkling about you think in their hearts they know what they are doing is wrong. I think they know it is wrong but they don't care. I think they are afraid, and scared. But, that is no excuse for what they are doing or how they are acting. If I were mistreated by my husband or his family, would they love me and rescue me or would they leave me alone or abandon me so I don't shame them by divorcing my husband? I don't think this is love, I really don't. It is sick.

>>>I'm sorry your relatives are allowing this. Pride and status are very powerful forces. This is part of the reason why my parents cry in front of me every night. They are concerned about the amount of relatives and friends that will look at them differently, shamefully when they find out I'm with a Caucasian girl. Their status in the community, friends and family will drop. Of course they are looking at it literally in the doom's day perspective.

So, this is the most important thing in the world to them. Status.

 
>>>Sigh. I was really hoping he would support us, but he can be worse than my parents. 
Here is a sample of the reasons he told me a while back (not my words, his):

-your parents have given everything for you. They given up their luxurious lifestyle as university professors in india to come to canada to each work 2 full time dead end jobs. 
-they dont have a life, they work all day (this is true), save their money and do everything they can so we can have a comfortable life and have opportunities other people dreamed about.
-they sacrificed their life for you and this is how you are going to repay them back.
- Imagine whats going in their mind when they sacrificed their entire lives working in jobs they hate, to think that all this hard work was for nothing. I would rather die than to have parents doubt even for a second that they wasted their life coming here and slaving themselves for us. 
-Your mom hasnt eaten in days, your dad cant sleep at night and is sleeping in work all because of the stresses your causing them.

HUH?? So, what does he mean? Like Sparkling said, how can he blame all of this on one white girl? Their whole life is contingent on one white girl being in the family, or not being in the family? If she enters it that means they had no life and were worthless? If she isn't in it, they they had a life and were somebody?

... is he saying they had no life unless they don't have a white girl in it? I also agree their life is how the majority of people live unless they are born into wealth, white or brown or black. You work hard to make things better and raise your kids. My brother is bad but he doesn't create crazy scenarios like that.

I don't understand the luxurious lifestyles part either. If the life in India was luxurious, then why move to another country? If they had so much wealth, why did they move? My parents moved so they could gain wealth and opportunities they didn't have in India. The pay back then really sucked in India. Even if you did have a more important job, the pay wasn't a lot I am told. Although, goods were cheaper. Life wasn't that great in India, especially for women. A lot of my friends who were girls weren't even allowed to go to school, only their brothers because girls weren't important. Girls were even sold off to work for their families.

Your brother does contradict himself. If your life was luxurious in India... why didn't they stay there? Instead of a sacrifice he makes your parents sound like stupid morons who gave up a wonderful, luxurious life in India so they could create NO life in Canada at dead end jobs??? He IS insulting them...a lot!!!

>>>He broke up with her i believe 2 years ago (i forget). 3 months ago she told me that my brother still had feelings for her and that he told her that he loved her, which is a bit twisted i know.

What is going on with him? He sounds like a real jerk. Don't be offended I think my brother is acting like one too.

>>>My memory is foggy. I remember my brother going on fights with my parents, i think it was about her. My brother told me he fought mom and dad but they were resistant to the idea of him marrying her. A few days ago, my dad later denied that he ever asked him. So i dont really know.

That is odd. They knew about her right? Your bro says one thing, your dad another. Who is believable?

>>>she has been sad since. She tells me she will never forget him and will always love him.

Oh man, this is the same on my side. Tell her all Indians don't think this way and I am sorry they have hurt her so much!

>>>Really? I didnt know there were a lot of those kinds of young indian guys in the western world.

No disrespect to you, but now you know. Take a look at our dads, our brothers, your cousins and uncles and when Indian men reach a certain age they become those same men as their fathers and uncles because they act how they have been told to act and taught to act.

Respect for an Indian girl isn't among their priorities, although they may claim it is. They will even claim they 'protect' us. The male is placed before the female and we are to serve them. We can't speak up to our husband..., you know the scenario...or parents and relatives will be in our faces and will be telling us we shamed them. If my husband mistreats me, or yells at me who will be there to rescue me or defend me? Nobody. It will be my fault, my shame to bear so I don't shame them. I will have to spend the rest of my life that way because there would be no divorce or I would shame them. Ohhh how they have been grooming their kids and girls to act just as they did. See how your brother changed? You saw him. I saw my brother change. I never thought he would treat someone this way never.

Our brothers both loved white girls but are marrying brown because they have been shamed into it, taught to do it, groomed to do it. My role is to treat them with respect? ...no.

>>Yes i have a secret weapon. I contacted a hindu preist (punduth) who is on our side and believes my parents are being too "selfish." He gave me his contacts and told me to have my parents contact him. He explained that 80% of the peopel he marries together are mixed people

.

This is amazing. How did you think to do this? How did you find him? Will your parents agree to meet with him? I hope, hope, hope, you remember to tell us how this plays out!!!!!!!!!!! Would you keep your brother out of it until after he met with your parents alone so he couldn't break them if they softened? How long have you had your SW?? (secret weapon)

>> I dont know what i did but thank you. Its really refreshing to find someone else in similar shoes. People are always shocked when they find out my brother isnt on my side.

Your brother is very selfish! It was ok when he had a white girl, but now he doesn't you aren't allowed one either.

 
>>>I think you pretty much nailed it.
I dont know anymore. Maybe its the guilt that left me confused. One of my friends tells me my guilt clouds my thoughts and i end up making many rash decisions.

IMHO, I think you stay with her because of the guilt and you would leave if you didn't have the guilt. It is also harder to leave her now because you are fighting for your right to choose and it would make it appear you lost and they won if you leave her now.

I do know one thing, even if you break up with her I would not tell my parents for the whole eight years you have left of med school. They would think they won, and next time if you had another white girlfriend, they would think I controlled his thinking one time, I can again and you would be at it again and again. They are abusing you and trying to control you and for you, you can't let them.

I don't know how to make the multi quote thing work either Sparkling. Sorry. I am on the very new side here too. I just click until I find something that works, and some of it I am still not sure what it does.

Sadgati, Sparking and Reactant...

It's relatively simple to make it work. Initially, just hit the "quote" button that you see at the end of a post. That will bring up a reply box where the message you are reply to will be shown that includes the requisite HTML coding to invoke an attributed quote (Left bracketQUOTE=Original poster's name;forum ID numberRight bracket).

At the end of the original poster's message, the required HTML coding to turn off the quote function will also be automatically inserted by the forum software: Left bracketForward slashQUOTERight bracket.

HOWEVER, you don't have to "quote" the entire message that was originally posted. You can quote as many (or few) passages as you like by using simple cut, copy and paste commands to get rid of text you don't want to quote or rearrange the text you do.

All you have to remember is to put the HTML quote "turn on" coding at the beginning of the passage you'd like to quote and type in the HTML quote "turn off" coding at the end of the desired quoted passage.

This sounds complicated -- it's not -- just hard to explain as if I type in either of these two commands in this message, they won't display for you to look at as the system will think I am invoking a command.

Just find any previous thread here where multiple quotes have been included, and hit the "quote" button beneath that post. You will be able to see what the coding looks like I am describing as it will automatically appear in the reply box that pops up. Once you see what I am talking about, I'm sure it will become clear to you what you need to do.

Best,

TMichaels

Sadgati, Sparking and Reactant...

Thank you!!!