Lets actually pick apart what the problem is with the dating market

Miko, point taken..

 

I was more or less talking about extremes.. I have a cute single neighbor that is about 80k in debt for getting her masters in sociology.. She is 27 and jobless. She also feels she "deserves" a big home, new car, and wants a family..I guess it has not occured to her that she put herself in quite a hole, but she is waiting for that guy to come bail her out. After all she is cute and has a vagina.

 

Overall, that is the mentality I see. Women feel entitled to the things they see on television..

There are definitely messed up people but I think we trust our own crappy "instincts" too often and see what's "not perfect" as "probably all messed up". Good luck to your neighbor trying to find someone to pay off her $80 grand. A lot of people who spend that much time getting advanced degrees come out, having been piss poor for 4-10 years feel like they've already earned the money they haven't made yet. They haven't lived in the real world since they were 18, or...ever. Unfortunately by the time they figure it out they're 3 years salary in debt. Good luck getting outta that hole. My my how smart people can be so dumb.

What in the world is datemax. I've never heard of it before.

Mixing the metaphors.

Carmax + online dating.. feels like car shopping=datemax

Doesn't exist but might as well.

If you add a puppy to the 3 \yr old, you'll be unstoppable. Scoping da hood with a baby and a puppy in tow will produce so much panties pudding that the streets will flood and FEMA must be called.

Hmm, My lab/hound mix is a horse but the sweetest dog with the floppiest ears...

And now you guys got me wondering if this woman I know who has invited me over twice this month with my kids (to play) & mentioned our dogs should play together this summer also, might have some ideas about me.

She knows i'm seperated & not looking to date but wants to be friends with me anyways.

hmmm.

I think another problem with regular guys like me is we are totally clueless & miss any subtle signs a woman may be putting out & instead of makeing the first move the woman just assumes we arn't interested & gives up.

I think current culture is tough on both genders. I think men have been expected to change and it hasn't been easy. But I in no way see a dynamic where women are living it up and getting everything they want out of life and are happy to stomp all over men to do it. Of living a life where women are the only and complete or even majority cause of all things wrong in this world. I think a lot of men here don't want to realize that women are people too. Can I say it again? Women are people too. With struggles, hurts, feelings, wishes, desires and insecurities about where they fit into it all. And we haven't bleeped it up alone. So stop pretending we did.

Just because I am a woman, doesn't mean I am not a human being. Do I really even need to say that? Some of you talk about women like we are worthless. Or like we don't know our own minds. Or as if we don't have a right to feel hurt or have our own personal struggles with current culture and society.

I don't know where the rest of you live, but I do know I don't live in a world that is easier on women. And no guys, that's not all OUR (women's) fault. I do know I live in a world that has given women more rights and oppurtunities then women had in the 1920s. But It's certainly not easier for us or better defined or even that men give us more respect now then they did then. I'm not so sure that they do. I do know that I don't live in a world that is easier for men either.

The fact that I am a woman does not mean that life is/has been easier for me. Perhaps the kind of women that are being referenced about are super hot women. You know the type guys, the ones that you are bitter about not wanting you and then with glee and macliousness talk about how when they turn 30 they will be a worthless as apparently all women are when they hit that age? And if these are the women you are talkign about, that it goes to show that those are the only woman men care about. And if that's the only women men care about, do you not see the callousness and hypocrisy in that?

Dating is not easy for me. If you ever really listened to the things many women go through around here, you would see it's not easy for most of us. Women are human beings too. Not all men are always nice. Respectful. Loving. Kind. Supportive. Full of all these wonderful things that alot of the men here want to implore they are despite all the women here that have had experiences contrary to that. Men do not always want to take care of us. And it is not just women's fault if a man doesn't want to. We've had to fend for ourselves. If that has made us less vunerable, it is because it's become a survival skill in a world where men want their time to play around on women until they are ready to settle down well into their 30s or 40s with women half their age. You can't have it both way guys. You can't use women until you are ready to settle down and then expect there to be a bevy of vunerable women that have not learned to be protective of themselves so that a man doesn't use you up.

Do any of us really want to hear each other out? Or do we just want to lecture to each other about *me* and *my* problems and what is wrong with the other gender? Ladies, when was the last time we actually listened to what the guys were saying? Gentlemen, when was the last time you actually listened to what the ladies where saying? I don't hear alot of that going around on this board. I don't think a few of you want to see women as people so much as you want to see them as the reason for why you think the world is crap. If you think women are the reason the world is crap, then you clearly think women are crap. And why would you even want a relationship with any of us if you have suhc a low opinion of us?

Women are people too. I know that goes against what some of you believe but we are.

A man who respects himself and is not afraid to stand up to a woman will naturally attract other women. He gives off an aura. I know that after my divorce when I stopped giving a damn about pleasing women is when I had women coming after me.

A lot of stuff i'm just experianceing now that had me very confused is coming out in this thread.

I've noticed the same thing.

There is a site called 'datemaxx' and it does appear to be an online dating service.

Topically, even though the world is purportedly more 'connected', people seem more and more disconnected from each other every day. Technology has facilitated social isolation with electrons as the medium for interaction. See, I posted just now. More electrons

Fewer electrons, more flesh. Press happily

There is a site called 'datemaxx' and it does appear to be an online dating service.

 

Topically, even though the world is purportedly more 'connected', people seem more and more disconnected from each other every day. Technology has facilitated social isolation with electrons as the medium for interaction. See, I posted just now. More electrons

 

Fewer electrons, more flesh. Press happily

Considering the title of the thread says 'dating market' I think we may have the gist of the issue right there. We're now shopping online for love. lol Everyone is objectified, dehumanized and reduced to an ad campaign.

Think of the complaints about laundry listing?

Must be ___ tall.

Between the age of __ and __.

Makes __ money

Prefer body type ___.

Enjoys ___ activities

Hmm.. look familiar?

I'm not sure what I'm more disturbed over, the negation of female agency or the complete gross generalizations that are running rampant in this thread.

Let's not be too quick to vilify an entire gender based on a tiny percentage of women (or men) you or your friends may have interacted with. Simply because you've observed the behaviour in 10 out of 10 people does not qualify you to make assessments that ALL women do this or ALL men do that. Employing the argument that the men who post on this forum come from a cross selection of various economic backgrounds and professions also does not lend credibility to the argument. Most people who post on a thread entitled "Let's actually pick apart what the problem is with the dating market" are going to share their negative experiences and rant about them.

As a woman (who cannot speak on behalf of other women, but only myself), let me dispel some misconceptions that may be floating around here. Let me preface this by saying that I am only speaking about me.

1. I don't care how much money you make. I don't care what kind of car you drive. I don't even care if you don't have a car. My current boyfriend neither owns nor wants a car. I couldn't care less. I ride a 25 year old bicycle myself. What's more important is the type of person you are, not the type of person you define yourself to be through material possessions.

2. Don't "game" the dating world. When you treat women as objects to be racked up, you're only going to expect to see unfavourable results. Referring to dating as a "market" implies a meatmarket mentality that objectifies potential partners. Dating is not a game. It's not a market. It's not a race to the finish line. Whether you know it or not, women do pick up on these things when you approach them with a cockiness or an attitude that suggests "player". Be yourself, approach women at a bookstore or grocery store. I've talked to some very nice men in the grocery store when they're requested help picking melons or other assorted fruit. As a previous poster said, it's hard being in the dating world as a woman too.

3. Don't carry this pessimism around with you. While it may be hard, it's only influencing the way that all subsequent interactions may play out in your head. If you're thinking that the woman is going to be a money grabbing, car loving, materialistic, ball busting, emasculating b%%$h, you're going to look for behaviours that you *think* reflect that paranoia. There are a wide range of people in this world who believe and want a diverse array of things in life. You won't click with all of them. You won't even meet 1% of them.

4. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Because you've witnessed an exchange in which *a* woman turns a man down in a less than smooth way in an awkward situation, does not mean that it doesn't happen when the roles are reversed. I've also seen plenty of men in groups talk about women in less than respectful ways, dissecting them by their body parts, ranking their hotness. Do I think all men do that? No.

I realize that I certainly do not represent women when I write this thread. I only represent one woman, myself and in a sea of gross generalizations, sometimes individual voices need to be heard so that it doesn't become too overwhelming skewed in one direction.

Let's not be too quick to vilify an entire gender based on a tiny percentage of women (or men) you or your friends may have interacted with.

You're just like all the rest of 'em. Bwahahahaha

I think current culture is tough on both genders. I think men have been expected to change and it hasn't been easy. But I in no way see a dynamic where women are living it up and getting everything they want out of life and are happy to stomp all over men to do it. Of living a life where women are the only and complete or even majority cause of all things wrong in this world. I think a lot of men here don't want to realize that women are people too. Can I say it again? Women are people too. With struggles, hurts, feelings, wishes, desires and insecurities about where they fit into it all. And we haven't bleeped it up alone. So stop pretending we did.

 

Just because I am a woman, doesn't mean I am not a human being. Do I really even need to say that? Some of you talk about women like we are worthless. Or like we don't know our own minds. Or as if we don't have a right to feel hurt or have our own personal struggles with current culture and society.

 

I don't know where the rest of you live, but I do know I don't live in a world that is easier on women. And no guys, that's not all OUR (women's) fault. I do know I live in a world that has given women more rights and oppurtunities then women had in the 1920s. But It's certainly not easier for us or better defined or even that men give us more respect now then they did then. I'm not so sure that they do. I do know that I don't live in a world that is easier for men either.

 

The fact that I am a woman does not mean that life is/has been easier for me. Perhaps the kind of women that are being referenced about are super hot women. You know the type guys, the ones that you are bitter about not wanting you and then with glee and macliousness talk about how when they turn 30 they will be a worthless as apparently all women are when they hit that age? And if these are the women you are talkign about, that it goes to show that those are the only woman men care about. And if that's the only women men care about, do you not see the callousness and hypocrisy in that?

 

Dating is not easy for me. If you ever really listened to the things many women go through around here, you would see it's not easy for most of us. Women are human beings too. Not all men are always nice. Respectful. Loving. Kind. Supportive. Full of all these wonderful things that alot of the men here want to implore they are despite all the women here that have had experiences contrary to that. Men do not always want to take care of us. And it is not just women's fault if a man doesn't want to. We've had to fend for ourselves. If that has made us less vunerable, it is because it's become a survival skill in a world where men want their time to play around on women until they are ready to settle down well into their 30s or 40s with women half their age. You can't have it both way guys. You can't use women until you are ready to settle down and then expect there to be a bevy of vunerable women that have not learned to be protective of themselves so that a man doesn't use you up.

 

Do any of us really want to hear each other out? Or do we just want to lecture to each other about *me* and *my* problems and what is wrong with the other gender? Ladies, when was the last time we actually listened to what the guys were saying? Gentlemen, when was the last time you actually listened to what the ladies where saying? I don't hear alot of that going around on this board. I don't think a few of you want to see women as people so much as you want to see them as the reason for why you think the world is crap. If you think women are the reason the world is crap, then you clearly think women are crap. And why would you even want a relationship with any of us if you have suhc a low opinion of us?

 

Women are people too. I know that goes against what some of you believe but we are.

I am a guy who is not blaming females at all for modern society's ills. I understand the power of the feminine force, the nurturing and passive qualities that they possess. The female holds the key to the Tree of Life, the symbol of Venus, the Ankh.

If we as humans, both men AND women, are to understand each other as one, we must end the war. It is a world war going on right now, war between sexes, war between nations, war between government and people, war between good and evil, war between nature and technology, war between races. We must end the war, and men NEED females to join in the cause to end it, just as women NEED men to continue spreading the seeds.

No females=no males

No males=no females

Get it?

 

No females=no males

No males=no females

Get it?

True, yet technology will also change that soon enough.

True, yet technology will also change that soon enough.

It will not. Technology is too fragile. It could all collapse with forces out of it's control. Nature is enduring and self-correcting. The fall of Rome, it's infrastructure collapsed because the foundation was not strong enough. The War Machine cannot survive if it kills it's host.

We must end the war, and men NEED females to join in the cause to end it, just as women NEED men to continue spreading the seeds.

 

What cause do men need women to join and what seeds to women need men to spread? I am totally confused here.

JS actually made a post that I very much agreed with. Just like women are people men are people too. All men are not out to destroy a woman's independence or control her. All men do not cheat on women or treat them with no respect. Most men are not threatened by smart, strong or successful women but we do want loving, caring and faithful to go along with that? Is there something wrong with that? Don't women want the very same thing in a man? Just because we don't want a nagging misandrist who has no respect for us does not mean that we want a stepford wife to kick around.

JS actually made a post that I very much agreed with. Just like women are people men are people too. All men are not out to destroy a woman's independence or control her. All men do not cheat on women or treat them with no respect. Most men are not threatened by smart, strong or successful women but we do want loving, caring and faithful to go along with that? Is there something wrong with that? Don't women want the very same thing in a man? Just because we don't want a nagging misandrist who has no respect for us does not mean that we want a stepford wife to kick around.

This is probably the most wonderful thing I've seen you post wogs. Perhaps you should write it down and keep it in your wallet for the next time you start smirking over a woman being betrayed?

This is probably the most wonderful thing I've seen you post wogs. Perhaps you should write it down and keep it in your wallet for the next time you start smirking over a woman being betrayed?

I'm sorry about how vicious I got in the past couple of week. I think it was having to listen to the crap while spending nearly three weeks feeling great about my marriage and love in general on vacation. When a person feels that good hitting a low is much worse.

What cause do men need women to join and what seeds to women need men to spread? I am totally confused here.

The seeds of the Earth. Plant life. Food. Vegetables. Herbs. Gardens. Love. Music. Art. Nature. Victory.

As a female, do you wish the entire world to be covered in urban blight? Is it wise for us to be cutting down all the trees and destroying the very plant life that sustains us?

Do you see that the cracks appear in roads because plant life is breaking through them? That abandon buildings are being overgrown with plant life? It nurtures us and provides sustenance, much like the feminine. Embrace your feminine qualities and men will embrace their masculine!

I think often times people are just shallow and sometimes too shallow for their own good. Young women want the all american Tom Bradyesque guy. Tall, handsome, great job, ambitious, nice smile, dresses well. What they don't realize is that there are about 10 of these guys in every 10,000, the other 9,990 are various levels of average, most on the lower levels. When women come to the realization that the chances of them landing Tom Brady is really really really slim unless they're Giselle Bunchen, one would think they would gravitate towards the remaining levesl of "average" men available but not so much. They would still hover around the 6-8 range, tolerate the 5s but any guy 4 and below incites a eye roll and a "he's just not my type". This attitude doesn't really change until they get older and wiser and often times desperate.

For the guys who complain about women not returning a smile on the bus or women acting like you are some kind of a creep the minute you look at them. It's because you are simply not good looking enough. Don't underestimate how big of a role "looks" play for women although we will deny it until the cows come home. Women enjoy a handsome, well put together guy more than you know. Ofcourse, we want you to have other qualities too but it always starts with looks.

Betamanlet posted an interesting and very true dating story earlier. The moment she saw him, she immediately wrote him off because of his looks. Even as the date progressed and she noticed some things they have in common, she couldn't get past the fact that he wasn't good looking enough. And did you see a picture of the guy? he's no troll, he's decent looking, he's your "average" guy.

I think often times people are just shallow and sometimes too shallow for their own good. Young women want the all american Tom Bradyesque guy. Tall, handsome, great job, ambitious, nice smile, dresses well. What they don't realize is that there are about 10 of these guys in every 10,000, the other 9,990 are various levels of average, most on the lower levels. When women come to the realization that the chances of them landing Tom Brady is really really really slim unless they're Giselle Bunchen, one would think they would gravitate towards the remaining levesl of "average" men available but not so much. They would still hover around the 6-8 range, tolerate the 5s but any guy 4 and below incites a eye roll and a "he's just not my type". This attitude doesn't really change until they get older and wiser and often times desperate.

 

For the guys who complain about women not returning a smile on the bus or women acting like you are some kind of a creep the minute you look at them. It's because you are simply not good looking enough. Don't underestimate how big of a role "looks" play for women although we will deny it until the cows come home. Women enjoy a handsome, well put together guy more than you know. Ofcourse, we want you to have other qualities too but it always starts with looks.

 

Betamanlet posted an interesting and very true dating story earlier. The moment she saw him, she immediately wrote him off because of his looks. Even as the date progressed and she noticed some things they have in common, she couldn't get past the fact that he wasn't good looking enough. And did you see a picture of the guy? he's no troll, he's decent looking, he's your "average" guy.

lol...this is so true! and check out the woman in the story...she's not even pretty! It is quite perplexing why some people think they "deserve" to be with someone "hot", "rich", "successful" . I think people should require of their partners the same things they can offer. It is just fair.

I live in DC, and this is what all my dates seem like, so much so I've stopped trying. She makes zero effort, I'm never good enough, she's full of herself.. oh yes, and is late, and b lames me.

 

This made me laugh.

Ugh, I hate to admit this, but the less a guy tries, the more I try to win him over... but no matter WHAT I always seem to find things I can use to pick apart a guy and, like you said, the guy is "never good enough" (which I think could be part of me being "full of myself" though I wouldn't say I'm super self-confident).

If a guy ends things with me - he had a lot of flaws anyways and I poke fun at them to feel better.

If I end things with him (which is more common) - I have loads of reasons why I was put off.

I guess I kind of deserve it when I get burned. ;p

I think often times people are just shallow and sometimes too shallow for their own good. Young women want the all american Tom Bradyesque guy. Tall, handsome, great job, ambitious, nice smile, dresses well. What they don't realize is that there are about 10 of these guys in every 10,000, the other 9,990 are various levels of average, most on the lower levels. When women come to the realization that the chances of them landing Tom Brady is really really really slim unless they're Giselle Bunchen, one would think they would gravitate towards the remaining levesl of "average" men available but not so much. They would still hover around the 6-8 range, tolerate the 5s but any guy 4 and below incites a eye roll and a "he's just not my type". This attitude doesn't really change until they get older and wiser and often times desperate.

 

For the guys who complain about women not returning a smile on the bus or women acting like you are some kind of a creep the minute you look at them. It's because you are simply not good looking enough. Don't underestimate how big of a role "looks" play for women although we will deny it until the cows come home. Women enjoy a handsome, well put together guy more than you know. Ofcourse, we want you to have other qualities too but it always starts with looks.

 

Betamanlet posted an interesting and very true dating story earlier. The moment she saw him, she immediately wrote him off because of his looks. Even as the date progressed and she noticed some things they have in common, she couldn't get past the fact that he wasn't good looking enough. And did you see a picture of the guy? he's no troll, he's decent looking, he's your "average" guy.

Thanks for being honest,its hillarious how women try to say theyre not visual creatures like Men and that looks arent as important when it seems its just as if not more important to women then Men..

The stuff ive seen good looking Men get away with is mind boggling..

Hm. I love the self righteousness in some of these posts.

I don't agree that it's not society at large's fault. It is. Secondly, to all the women who insist men always cheat, always use, and always abuse, let's face the facts. Women do it just as often, only in a more final way. Women cheat. Women use. Women abuse. But society at large barely recognizes the promiscuis nature of the modern woman. They are JUST as guilty.

I for one as a man have NEVER cheated on ANY partner. Ever. Yet I am labelled by the actions of my forefathers. That's fine. I get it. But own your mistakes also. Part of the problem is the disconnect between genders in today's world. It's ridiculous. Both genders love to point fingers, but neither accepts the blame. Both genders cheat. Both genders abuse. Women simply get the pass because in the news it's always "This guy cheated on his wife!" Yet we never hear about the "This guy had his heart broken because his wife left him for her coworker" stories, now do we? No. Society places this HUGE implication on men, and strictly men, when women are just as, if not more so, guilty of modern promiscuity then men.

Thanks for being honest,its hillarious how women try to say theyre not visual creatures like Men and that looks arent as important when it seems its just as if not more important to women then Men..

 

The stuff ive seen good looking Men get away with is mind boggling..

Let's face it, men and women aren't as different as people often argue.

Both can just be as vain and callous.

Just as shallow and gullible.

Juts as honest and true.

Just as likely to lie and cheat.

It all comes down to the individual.

An especially 'hot' woman or man has more options, is used to being chased and having the upper hand.

No point in whining about reality right?

Let's face it, men and women aren't as different as people often argue.

 

Both can just be as vain and callous.

Just as shallow and gullible.

Juts as honest and true.

 

An especially 'hot' chick or guy has more options, is used to being chased and having the upper hand.

 

No point in whining about reality right?

Im just asking women to be honest about it instead of acting houlier then thou like looks are somewhere down the list when its probably at the top..

Im just asking women to be honest about it instead of acting houlier then thou like looks are somewhere down the list when its probably at the top..

Everyone wants an attractive partner. What people need to learn is that attractiveness should not be dictated by an outside source (Eg, Hollywood, society -socialism anyone?) and that what you deem is attractive should come from yourself, not a magaine or video or article.

People let friends, family, movies, television, internet, magazines, etc. All dictate what they deem attractive. It's ridiculous. I've seen girls I thought were hot that my boys all thought were hideous. It didn't stop me from pursuing them. But I think on both sides people want to impress others rather then themselves.

I've posted my picture. I know I am a decent looking guy. I have no problems talking to women or dating women. But that doesn't alter the way I view the dating game. It's a joke. From both sides. Some of my guy friends are heinous players. Some of my girl friends are cheaters. The spectrum goes both ways. What I dislike is the fact that men are expected to be blamed for cheating. With women, it's a whole different ball game.