Absolutely no experience dating: How does a relationship start?

Hi everyone,

I've been quietly keeping an eye on this board for a few months now, hoping it might give me some clues to figure out what on earth this "dating" (I even hate that word for some reason) thing is all about ... I guess I've learnt a little bit but still feel pretty much lost. It might sound a bit strange, but I just know so little about this whole subject that to me, most of the posts here may as well be written in a different language.

About me: I'm a guy in my early twenties, pretty quiet but not unpopular, I have plenty of friends, both male and female. I have never had anything even remotely approaching a girlfriend, neither as some sort of "casual dating" thing nor "a proper long-term relationship"; I have no idea what the difference is, or what these terms I've been hearing really mean, but I've never had anything which could be considered a date in any sense whatsoever, certainly never held a girl's hand or put my arm around a girl or anything like that. Dances and stuff at school where everyone "takes a partner" and "it doesn't really mean anything", I never went. I don't want to go over the top, and I am *not* here for sympathy, but I just want to make sure this bit is totally clear.

I have been attracted to a few girls in the past, and have tried a little bit to "go after them", without really understanding what I was doing or what I wanted, but always with absolutely zero success. So disastrous it would be funny if it weren't so painful. I could probably post more details about this if necessary but I honestly don't think it's that relevant; I feel more like it was just a symptom of the fact that I really have no idea what's going on here. So I'd like to put that behind me and start from square one, I guess.

There are a million different questions I could ask, so it's very hard to know where to start, but here goes ... (It sounds a bit basic; you'll probably laugh, that's OK ... but please, I really am serious about wanting to know the answer.)

********* If you don't want to read the whole long post, please just start here. *********

How on earth does a "relationship" start? The naive pattern I suppose I had in my head, from I-don't-know-where, was that one person asks the other to go out and do something with him/her, which is basically equivalent to saying "I like you; do you like me?" If the other person says yes, then they become "boyfriend and girlfriend". (It certainly seems pretty much that way whenever any of my friends get girlfriends/boyfriends, they just appear on the scene all of a sudden, but I guess I'm too embarrassed to ask any of my friends these basic questions about how it works.)

But from what I read here it seems much more gradual (and complicated) than that. "Just casual dating"? "We were both dating other people at the same time"? These ideas have got me totally baffled. :-( Does this really happen?! For some reason, the idea of going to, say, a movie (or dinner or whatever) alone with a girl seems like a *huge* deal to me. Asking a girl to do that, however I framed it, would feel as if I were making some big declaration of the fact that I'm attracted to her.

Seems like I've got it all wrong ...?

Finally, I don't want to appear "desperate", I really don't think I am. I have successfully pushed this topic completely out of my mind for a few years now, after my first discouraging adventures. But I guess I just feel like I need to figure it out sometime, and my "understanding" hasn't changed in the slightest for those few years and I can't see anything likely to change it in the near future. Which is why I am writing this. :-)

Thank you so much for reading. Please help if you can. Nothing you can say on this topic is too obvious for me.

I think that what happens between a man and a woman between the time that they meet for the first time and progress to something else is very individual and very hard to explain.

My first boyfriend and I had been friends for a year. I was 19 and he was 21. To this day I have not had a more meaningful or lasting relationship than that. And I am 36 now. We met and were friends. He taunted and teased me all the time. I even dated his best friend for a period of time. The whole time he loved me and I thought he was ugly. Then one day he told me how he felt. There was always some kind of electricity between us. And he chose the right moment to tell me. The sparks went flying and I feel in love with him too. We were together for 6 years.

The point is....I can't explain it. Why him? Why not someone else? It is just something about the other person that makes you feel drawn to him. Makes you want to be with him or her.

The problem that you are describing about yourself sounds like it is... or could develop into something serious. You are a young man and should already have been on dates and been intimate with somebody if you went through a normal pattern of growing up. This suggests that you have some problems that you should try to get counselling for. It is not clear from your e-mail why you are facing these problems.

I have experience with friends who have had similar problems from my past. And some of them needed counselling to assist them in getting the right perspective about relationships. Anyway it sounds like you are somewhat interested in the whole thing otherwise you would not be lurking here and reading what it is all about.

Love is something that can be beautiful and painful and can make you whole or rip you apart. Nonetheless it is something that was given to us by God and it has powers that can heal you and make you whole when it is true and real. But even when it isnt' real and we get hurt... it still helps us to grow up to be adults and it forms us. I agree that it may not be for everyone but unless you are planning on becoming a monk or a recluse ... you should try it....

Take care and good luck.

Keep us posted.

How does a relationship start??

All by itself....when you least expect it.....while being yourself.

Chris, I definitely am not laughing about the basic nature of your question. This topic is actually so complex, someone could write a book on it. Here are just a few points:

* Relationships DON'T just happen - IMO. At least one person has to have some intent

* It is ESSENTIAL to be sensitive to the body language and other actions of the girl you are interested in

* Don't make a move until you're reasonably sure (85-90%) how she will respond. (Don't kiss on spec until her body language and words show you that she wants it too)

* You will continue to have trouble if you consider a movie or dinner date to be a momentous event. Most people don't. Your overestimating the importance of these events will make the girl uncomfortable

* Resilience is everything. When you start asking girls out, you will get turned down. Yes, you will get REJECTED. We all know how rejection feels, but you need to develop some philosophical ways to deal with it that don't demonize either you or her. "Oh well, I guess the timing wasn't right" or "Not many girls want to go to monster truck rallies" or "I'll have better luck tomorrow" or "She might be really shy and scared". You may have to hear 20 NOs before you hear the first YES. That's OK - you only need/want one girlfriend, right?

* Whatever efforts you make, pat yourself on the back for trying

* Talk to your good friends - both sexes - about what you are looking for, and about the trouble and worries you have had. That's what friends are for. If they are true friends, you can tell them EVERYTHING you have told us

* You have lots of company in your situation. You just don't know it, because most fellow sufferers are doing everything they can to hide their "shame"

* Early 20s is actually a great time to work on this. Everyone is still single and there are lots of partners available. When you get into mid and late 30s, it will get harder

* Start out slow - maybe double dating at the zoo, or daytime activities

* Developing a relationship is basically developing a close, SPECIAL friendship, and deepening it. Women get close to men through talking - lots of intimate talking about feelings, etc. Just don't become a girl buddy, and NEVER listen to girls talking about other guys they are chasing.

* The more you move your focus from yourself to other people, the easier it will be. Whenever you find yourself wondering about YOU, or about how you appear to others, STOP IT. Then start wondering about how other people are feeling. THis trick is MAGIC for reducing anxiety and easing social interactions.

* Counselling may help - I wish I had had access to therapy and neds when I was at the stage you are experiencing now.

* This topic is so complicated, I recommend finding some good books on it and studying them thoroughly

Good luck, you WILL find what you're looking for, I'm quite sure of it.

Chris -

The other posters have said some good stuff. I'd just like to add a bit:

I've never believed in 'dating' per se. I think it's bogus. For the most part, I've met my SOs by having gotten to know them through clubs or groups that I belonged to. Eventually, you realize you 'click' with someone and you spend more time together - which may or may not lead to a relationship.

However, I guess people who don't have any other avenue to get acquainted, some sort of opportunity has to be created.

Asking a girl to do that, however I framed it, would feel as if I were making some big declaration of the fact that I'm attracted to

Being attracted to is not the same, one hopes, as being madly in love with. It's not a big deal to 'declare' that you think another person appears pleasant to you and that you'd like to spend more time in her company. Certainly you don't have to go the route of dinners and movies. You can start off in much more relaxed manner - ask someone for coffee or dessert or lunch or to go to a local event some Saturday day.

Bottom line is that you need some way to get to know the person you think you might like better and dating seems to be how people do that. After all, you can't fall for someone you know nothing about so you need to be able to get acquainted. Think of it that way and that should take some of the stress off.

Wow ... thanks very much for your replies.

To be honest, I still feel totally confused and want to know much more, but I don't really know what to ask next; maybe in a few days I'll be able to "digest" all this and I'll have a more sensible question to ask. :-(

I can sort of see that what you are all telling me must be right, but something deep down inside me is stopping me from really believing it (and from being able to act on it). I don't know why.

Any other ideas? As I said before, seriously *nothing* you can say is too obvious for me.

Thanks again ... at least I have something to think about now.

Chris -

If something deep down is "stopping you", maybe you need to eat a bit more fiber? As far as you being the only sufferer, for goodness' sake, online dating is all about males and females who are looking for partners. Many of them are looking because they don't have a partner or have NEVER had a partner.

You may feel jealous of all the smug couples walking around with their hands in each other's pants pockets and big satisfied smirks on their faces, but also be aware that there are people in crappy relationships who would give ANYTHING to be free. Really. Read Loveshack for a while and you will see relationships in a fuller light.

Courage - courage - imagine that pronounced with a French accent. Let people know that you'd love to meet a nice girl who is also interested in <beagles> or <alternative theater> or whatever.

Lighten up a bit and look for inner beauty as well as outer. And DON'T go insisting on a girl who is a "10" if you are only a "5.5". This is one of the COMMONEST and most devastating mistakes.

Humor:

Why I Will Never Have A Girlfriend http://www.nothingisreal.com/girlfriend/index

Advice:

http://www.advicegoddess.com/

Make a practice of inviting girls out for cappuccino, or to people watch at cafes, or to hike or birdwatch or ride bikes. Ask, ask again. Ask your friends what you should be doing differently.

Don't be ashamed of where you are. Start loving and accepting yourself - FULLY - and then it will be easier to find someone else to love you.

Originally posted by SoleMate

Lighten up a bit and look for inner beauty as well as outer. And DON'T go insisting on a girl who is a "10" if you are only a "5.5". This is one of the COMMONEST and most devastating mistakes.

What do you mean by this exactly? When you say 10 and 5.5, are you just talking about looks or a kind of overall "attractiveness"/"beauty"?

If you mean just looks, to be honest I was probably a bit guilty of this at first ... however I have read about people who don't think someone is particularly good-looking at first, but this changes as they get to know them better. This seemed to happen to me with one girl, so how do I know whether I was "insisting on a girl who is a 10" when I shouldn't have been, or whether it just developed because I came to really like her personality?

If you don't mean just looks, but rather a more overall "beauty" ... does this mean that people who "are a 5.5" will only end up with other people who "are a 5.5"? If so, does this mean that these people are fundamentally less happy than people who are a 10 and therefore end up with a partner who is a 10?

Thanks especially for your help Solemate, I think my mindset is already improving a bit.

As far as the 10 point scale goes, it has many dimensions, and guess what? Every person has a different scale. Mine includes:

* Attractive face

* Fit body

* Right height (5'5" to 6'4")

* Intelligent

* Well/appropriately dressed

* Well groomed

* Courteous

* Smells good

* Good table manners (sadly, this is not universal)

* Knowlegdeable

* Confident (or appears confident)

* Compassionate

* Warm

* Generous heart

* Affectionate

* Emotionally healthy

* Socially adept

* Dependable (shows up when and where he says he will)

* Ready to have a relationship

* And probably lots more

Yes, I'm cold blooded enough to rate all my male options 1-10 on EACH of these attributes. Some are weighted heavier than others. Nobody is a perfect 10 on all attributes, and every individual can excel in at least a few.

And look at the list! Almost everybody can improve their scores in most areas. The "rating" is not fixed at birth by any means. Some people start out with advantages, but everyone can improve. Zarathustra said something about mate attractiveness on another thread.

It's my pleasure to help in any way I can.

OK I've been thinking about this quite a bit for a few days ... I've got another point which I'm hoping someone might be able to set me straight on. (Again, this might seem a bit basic, but anyway ...)

Originally posted by SoleMate

Make a practice of inviting girls out for cappuccino, or to people watch at cafes, or to hike or birdwatch or ride bikes. Ask, ask again.

How well am I meant to know these girls before I might do that? Are we talking about girls I meet one day and otherwise might never see again, girls who are already friends, girls who are already acquaintances but I don't really know very well, or what?

I think perhaps the reason that at the moment going anywhere alone with a girl seems like a "momentous event" could be that, well, a few years ago I did ask a girl out (and she said no obviously; not unkindly but very clearly) and since then we have both become part of the one social group, so we see each other quite often. We'd probably say that we're "friends" but we don't really mean it; I can hardly talk to her. Even after years, I still find it terribly uncomfortable. I am terrified of this happening again.

So maybe I had that all wrong; maybe it's not a great idea to ask a girl out who you're likely to stay in contact with afterwards?

If all your suggestions were referring more to girls who, if they say no, I'll be able to keep out of the way of afterwards ... that seems much more manageable. The idea of rejection itself doesn't worry me that much, but having to face up to the girl in the future would be a different story.

Thanks again.

chris58

You are the predator and they are the prey. Learn from the pros, and study your prey.

Read a good dating book so you know what does and doesn’t work. You have to work to obtain the woman of your dreams so don’t expect her to fall into your lap.

Read the The Rules by Ellen Fein and Sherrie Schneider. Supposedly, a lot of women have read it and strictly follow it. You will get some insight into some of the lame and ridiculous things they do.

Check some of amerikajin’s posts.

well its good to hear theres someone else out there like me. Im 24. Never been in a real "relationship" since High school and dont really consider the g/f i had then a relationship. Never really dated at all until i met this girl im "sorta" seeing now. i had always had been picky about looks and stuff like that. yes i know thats bad, but that just how i was. Having trouble with the whole "how does a relationship start or evolve from dating etc" It is driving me insane...very long story that i'll be putting on here tomorow sometime to get some opinions/advice about.

As far as the looks go....Although there were certain girls i'd get to know that were not a "10" and got along with them well and sometimes feelings evolved and looks meant nothing, but my shyness prevented me from taking anything further than the friend level. Well the girl im with now is incredibly beautiful. She works with me, and when she started there a few months ago all the guys at work were going crazy over her. Im sorta seeing her now and was amazed to realize that her looks had absolutly nothing to do with how i feel about her, sure its great that she's a hottie, but i like her because we have so much in common and i feel a connection to her, I never even really looked at her that way until one of our dates when I saw her and i was just like "wow she's beautiful".