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Married but poor sex life


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Hi all,

 

First time post here.

I've done everything I can but after a dozen years of marriage I find myself begging my wife for sex...just plain old sex as shes not into anything else like watching porn together, or anything more kinky. Forget anything like anal, swinging, or anything THAT liberal...it'll never happen.

She thinks our marriage is just fabulous and she tells me that every day. I have mentioned to her that I would like more intimacy but she says our relationship is more than just sex. I think she just doesn't like sex.

I hate to say this but I'm real close to finding another married woman that just wants sex. I know, thats terrible of me to say.

 

I just don't know what to do as the wife won't talk about it, won't go with me to any kind of therapy or anything. She just says we're fine and most married couples don't have sex as much as I think they do. We have it about twice a month yet I would like it twice a WEEK!

 

Anyone else in this situation?

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I was in that very same situation except maybe sex was once every 3 - 4 weeks. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm very interested in hearing what others will offer as suggestions to you.

 

You sound like you're vulnerable to cheating - like I was. If a woman you found attractive at this point were to approach you .. what do you think you'd do?

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Hi all,

 

First time post here.

I've done everything I can but after a dozen years of marriage I find myself begging my wife for sex...just plain old sex as shes not into anything else like watching porn together, or anything more kinky. Forget anything like anal, swinging, or anything THAT liberal...it'll never happen.

She thinks our marriage is just fabulous and she tells me that every day. I have mentioned to her that I would like more intimacy but she says our relationship is more than just sex. I think she just doesn't like sex.

I hate to say this but I'm real close to finding another married woman that just wants sex. I know, thats terrible of me to say.

 

I just don't know what to do as the wife won't talk about it, won't go with me to any kind of therapy or anything. She just says we're fine and most married couples don't have sex as much as I think they do. We have it about twice a month yet I would like it twice a WEEK!

 

Anyone else in this situation?

She probably just doesn't need it, and either doesn't care what you need or feels empowered by your begging.

 

There are many folks here in the same boat, or worse. I quit begging years ago, and now have to choose between celibacy, divorce, or cheating.

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I have been there...and it still isn't perfect...better, but not perfect. My wife said no more sex..this after fifteen years of marriage.

 

What brought most of her libido back was a change in thyroid meds. Feel free to read my first few threads. They will give a good explanation. I heard it all...no interest, no love for me, etc.

 

Delve into it. You may be surprised as to where and what you find. Do not give up.

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Flyin in Clouds
....

 

Anyone else in this situation?

 

OK, some will give me some crap for what I'm about to say, dumping on me about why my wife quit... but I'll ignore them. You listening H2T?

 

Married for 32 years - to the same woman even. Three kids, two still at home. Several years ago my wife unilaterally decided we, meaning she, no longer needed sex. We did it maybe two or three times a year and even then it wasn't much fun. Nothing kinky... anal,swinging ha... no way. Not even doggie, and she didn't even want oral anymore. And I loved doing that for her. This was after a long slow decline from the early days of our marriage when we'd do it three times in an hour and that twice a day. (nooners were tough - we worked too far apart). Anyway she always liked sex as much as I did. She'd initiate. I'd initiate. Hell we even did it once out in the middle of a redwood forest.

 

But then ... well things went to near zero. I was more and more frustrated. Not that the old right hand couldn't offer some relief, but I wanted to make love to her. I couldn't understand what was going wrong. Had she found a lover and lost interest in me? Was I all of a sudden inadequate? Had I done something? What was going on? I was faced with the option of celibacy, cheating or divorce. Throw away my family and 30 years of history? Cheat - breaking my word to her, dishonoring myself, hoping not to get caught. And there were plenty of opportunity for me to cheat. It wouldn't have been hard. Nor would it been hard for my wife to cheat. She's travels for business and I joke she's been in more hotel rooms than a Los Vegas hooker. In my younger years one woman (married) offered to drag me off to a hotel after work. I turned her down. I have never cheated on my wife - yet. But what to do. None of the options looked very good. Celibacy for the rest of my life. I'm too young for that. What to do, what to do...

 

I decided I wanted to get things back to the way they were. I didn't really want other women. Well, OK, I did, but not at the expense of breaking my word. I mean if she'd go for swinging I'd be there in heart beat (I think..). Anyway. Soooo I confronted her.

 

I said we had to talk. Serious talk. I had just finished remodeling our deck off our master bedroom over looking the lagoon behind our house and set that up with a table and candles to set the mood.

 

I said look, we aren't having sex anymore and I don't understand why. Do you have someone else satisfying you? "No", she said. Are you just not interested? "Well, yeah, I can do without." But you were always interested in sex before what changed? Look I can't just be celibate for the rest of my life. We either get things back to a more normal sex life or my options are I cheat on you or we get a divorce, but celibacy isn't one of the options. She accused me of just wanting to have an affair. I said yes, I want to have an affair - with the women I married. I don't know where that woman has gone but I want her back.

 

It actually took a while to get that thru her thick skull, that I wanted her. She was feeling older (48), gained some weight, had varicose veins from our third son, in short she had developed a poor body image of herself and felt that she wasn't sexy anymore. And on top of that she decided to go off the pill as she wanted to know when she was finished with the change of life. Hot flashes. Oh boy...

 

Oh, that last one was a big one. Well of course she didn't want sex at 48 and possibly get pregnant. Neither did I, but I didn't' want to get snipped either. And we both have always hated condoms.

 

She also thought the only reason I wanted sex was I wanted to get my rocks off. It took a month to convince her that the best part of sex for me wasn't getting myself off, I'd been doing enough of that, it was actually watching her climax. That was the wonderful part of sex. To think that I could give her pleasure. Now she was either damn good at faking it for a lot of years or she did really like it. And that's was a big part of what I missed. Not to put too fine a point on it but coming together so to speak.

 

It took many nights and burning down a few large candles and many bottles of wine... but we eventually got things more or less back on track. I convinced her we needed to get more exercise. Well if you aren't in shape sex isn't very good. It does require some heart lung capacity. We went away for a few romantic weekends. She'd arrange one. Then I'd arrange one. She likes to travel. Loves to travel. With or without me :(... I prefer hiking up a mountain. I mostly have to do that by myself. We started talking long walks together by the ocean. Then she got the bright idea that we should run a marathon. A friend of ours did marathons... soooo we ended up doing one too. I was just trying to get in shape for a little better sex. I wasn't trying to kill myself.

 

So guys, you can decide to cheat, live in celibacy or get a divorce. Those are the options. But if your wife knows you are serious about choosing one of those, she just might see the light that sex is more important to the health of her relationship than she thought it was. And that might make all the difference in the world.

 

So if you want to change thing you have to take charge. And being a little romantic, flowers, candles, cooking her her favorite meal, champagne in the jacuzzi, - all that helps - but above all convincing her that you really do love her, that you'd have an affair if she forces you to it, but you'd really rather have her ... the way you used to have her. Friendly persuasion? A little light arm twisting? OK, whatever... but it worked to us.

 

If this approach doesn't work at least you will have been honest with her.

 

Oh there was one other option. cheat, divorce, celibacy or bullet in the head. I was so depressed over thinking I had lost her love, that she just didn't care about me anymore, she had no use for me or she'd found someone else to take care of her needs, ... that I was suicidal for a while. A little extreme you say? Well there were other factors to that too, but because I couldn't cheat on her, it was an idle threat, she probably knew that too. I mean cheating would have destroyed my own self image. I didn't want to divorce her, I didn't want to be without her love. What I wanted was the old her. And celibacy was driving me up the wall. I would literally shake when around other women. It seemed like I was in a no win situation, no exit, no way out. passive agressive, manipulatie - whatever - the important thing is we got back in the sack - together and we're both a lot happier. I didn't think she loved me anymore, she didn't think I loved her - it was a death spiral.

 

The solution was being brutally honest with my lover, my wife and best friend. I haven't gotten her to agree to any of the kinky stuff --- yet... that's still a work in progress... :);):D

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We either get things back to a more normal sex life or my options are I cheat on you or we get a divorce, but celibacy isn't one of the options.
So threaten to leave or cheat if he or she won't have sex with you, coercion. That's an option I missed.

 

To summarize options:

 

Celibacy: Least selfish, most frustrating (especially over the long haul.)

 

Divorce: Most final, and you will loose everything (except experience) you invested in the relationship, as well as time with your kids, the home you're comfortable with, and financial assets.

 

Cheating: Most selfish and least "honorable" for some, but you may get away with it. It might result in divorce, and if it does the other spouse will have the moral "high ground." Highest risk, but possibly highest rewards too.

 

Coercion: May or may not work, puts the ball in the other spouse's court. It could result in divorce. Some would also consider coercion for intimacy pretty "dishonorable."

 

Trying to look at these objectively. Did I miss anything?

 

She was feeling older (48), gained some weight, had varicose veins from our third son, in short she had developed a poor body image of herself and felt that she wasn't sexy anymore.
Part of a husband's "job" is to help his wife's self-image. For anyone having problems, telling her she's beautiful, buying her flowers, etc. might be worth trying if you haven't already.
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Looks about right to me. Coersion is the part that bothered me as well. I really, really didn't want sex under duress or because she felt it was her duty. That would make me sick. I may have been wrong, but I also felt that if we had to go to a counselor to have him explain to her that we need to have sex more often, then I'd rather do without.

 

It's all about the loss of desire that got me. I would have found it infinitely easier to take if she was physically unable to have sex and that's why we didn't than her being perfectly able to and not wanting to.

 

A friend of mine once tried to advise me that the next time I come home and she doesn't even say hello and instead just stared at the TV, that I should call her on it and make a big deal out of it. I didn't because while I'm sure I could make her greet me with a kiss when I come home, it would be forced, and she'd be resentful.

 

 

 

So threaten to leave or cheat if he or she won't have sex with you, coercion. That's an option I missed.

 

To summarize options:

 

Celibacy: Least selfish, most frustrating (especially over the long haul.)

 

Divorce: Most final, and you will loose everything (except experience) you invested in the relationship, as well as time with your kids, the home you're comfortable with, and financial assets.

 

Cheating: Most selfish and least "honorable" for some, but you may get away with it. It might result in divorce, and if it does the other spouse will have the moral "high ground." Highest risk, but possibly highest rewards too.

 

Coercion: May or may not work, puts the ball in the other spouse's court. It could result in divorce. Some would also consider coercion for intimacy pretty "dishonorable."

 

Trying to look at these objectively. Did I miss anything?

 

Part of a husband's "job" is to help his wife's self-image. For anyone having problems, telling her she's beautiful, buying her flowers, etc. might be worth trying if you haven't already.

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Coersion is the part that bothered me as well. I really, really didn't want sex under duress or because she felt it was her duty. That would make me sick.

Totally agree. To me, "Have sex with me or else!" would be almost as low as rape, I just couldn't say that (even in more polite words) to anyone.

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Maybe the fact that you guys want other people involved in your sex lives could also have something to do with her lack of desire. Knowing that your SO really just wants to be with anyone and everyone else but you while making you watch really isn't sexy. And knowing that sex with you means so little to them that they want their friends to have sex with you to keep you busy while they do it with their friends wives really isn't all that hot either. Just a suggestion... :lmao:

 

I don't really think that saying you need sex and it being a dealbreaker is coercion. You guys should not feel that wanting physical intimacy in your relationship makes you dirty. Those feelings are just as legitimate as any other feelings. To my thinking, saying that you would leave if she refuses sex is the same as her saying she will leave if you cheat. Everyone has expectations and needs, and in a marriage you should work together to fulfill each other's needs, right? I think calling it coercion is being too hard on yourself and making you out to be the bad guy when you're not.

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Maybe the fact that you guys want other people involved in your sex lives could also have something to do with her lack of desire. Knowing that your SO really just wants to be with anyone and everyone else but you while making you watch really isn't sexy. And knowing that sex with you means so little to them that they want their friends to have sex with you to keep you busy while they do it with their friends wives really isn't all that hot either. Just a suggestion... :lmao:
I'm sorry, are we on the same thread? The OP is talking about "just plain old sex," and didn't see anyone else mention sex with friends or groups either.

I don't really think that saying you need sex and it being a dealbreaker is coercion. You guys should not feel that wanting physical intimacy in your relationship makes you dirty. Those feelings are just as legitimate as any other feelings. To my thinking, saying that you would leave if she refuses sex is the same as her saying she will leave if you cheat. Everyone has expectations and needs, and in a marriage you should work together to fulfill each other's needs, right? I think calling it coercion is being too hard on yourself and making you out to be the bad guy when you're not.
I have no problem asking for intimacy, and have told her many times what it means to me, but any time something is demanded with an "or else" (stated or implied) it's coercion. If my wife said "vacuum or I'm leaving you" I'd be pi$$ed, if I said to her "do the laundry or I'm leaving you," she'd be (rightfully) pi$$ed.

 

And you're right, in a marriage people should be fulfilling each other's needs, but not because they think they have to to to keep the other from leaving, but because they want to to make their spouses feel appreciated. When someone feels un-appreciated, it shouldn't be too surprising if they seek appreciation and approval elsewhere.

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I mention swinging sex because Guest posted this:

 

Forget anything like anal, swinging, or anything THAT liberal...it'll never happen.

 

and Flyin in Clouds posted this:

 

I mean if she'd go for swinging I'd be there in heart beat

 

This is obviously something they would both be into. Which tells me that it's very possible they married someone with a VERY different set of values pertaining to sex than they have.

 

By saying that if you don't get what you want you have every right to seek it elsewhere, you are saying that cheating in that situation isn't wrong. Then why can't you just tell your wife you want an open relationship? If you're not doing anything wrong they why sneak around?

 

This is a point people love to miss. Cheating (according to my definition) directly involves sneaking around and lying. If two people are open about something, it is NOT cheating, because no one is being betrayed. Sometimes that sort of thing works, you know? Open marriages can work if the two people have the same attitudes about it. I mean, if she's not having sex with you then SHE isn't getting the sex she needs either. Maybe if you opened your marriage you could BOTH get the sex you need from outside sources.

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I mention swinging sex because Guest posted this:

 

and Flyin in Clouds posted this:

 

This is obviously something they would both be into. Which tells me that it's very possible they married someone with a VERY different set of values pertaining to sex than they have.

Gotcha. My impression with the OP was just too little "plain sex," and I'll confess to not reading Flyin's post in so much detail (he's pretty predictable.) ;)

 

By saying that if you don't get what you want you have every right to seek it elsewhere, you are saying that cheating in that situation isn't wrong. Then why can't you just tell your wife you want an open relationship? If you're not doing anything wrong they why sneak around?

 

This is a point people love to miss. Cheating (according to my definition) directly involves sneaking around and lying. If two people are open about something, it is NOT cheating, because no one is being betrayed. Sometimes that sort of thing works, you know? Open marriages can work if the two people have the same attitudes about it. I mean, if she's not having sex with you then SHE isn't getting the sex she needs either. Maybe if you opened your marriage you could BOTH get the sex you need from outside sources.

Sorry if I gave the impression that cheating wasn't wrong, I even stated celibacy was the least selfish option. It is wrong, but given the options (all pretty crappy) cheating or divorce are the most likely for me personally.

 

Suggesting to the spouse an open marriage might actually work for some, so that's a fifth option. I suspect that would be more likely to lead to divorce than even cheating though. It's one thing to sleep with another discreetly, but to do it out in the open would be even more embarrassing in many cases. And cheaters aren't always caught.

 

In my own case, my spouse doesn't need sex, so an open marriage would only be for me. She would be jealous of time I spent with others though, and would be hurt that I suggested it.

 

Different ethics; For me, sneaking isn't that bad. I do things behind my wife's back, posting on LS for one thing. She would be hurt if she knew everything I said here, and I'm happy for the outlet, so I'm sneaky about it. ;)

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Gotcha. My impression with the OP was just too little "plain sex," and I'll confess to not reading Flyin's post in so much detail (he's pretty predictable.) ;)

 

Sorry if I gave the impression that cheating wasn't wrong, I even stated celibacy was the least selfish option. It is wrong, but given the options (all pretty crappy) cheating or divorce are the most likely for me personally.

 

Suggesting to the spouse an open marriage might actually work for some, so that's a fifth option. I suspect that would be more likely to lead to divorce than even cheating though. It's one thing to sleep with another discreetly, but to do it out in the open would be even more embarrassing in many cases. And cheaters aren't always caught.

 

In my own case, my spouse doesn't need sex, so an open marriage would only be for me. She would be jealous of time I spent with others though, and would be hurt that I suggested it.

 

Different ethics; For me, sneaking isn't that bad. I do things behind my wife's back, posting on LS for one thing. She would be hurt if she knew everything I said here, and I'm happy for the outlet, so I'm sneaky about it. ;)

 

 

So remember, that when or if she is doing something "sneaky" as well, to keep your mouth shut about it. Wouldn't want you to call the kettle black.

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In my own case, my spouse doesn't need sex, so an open marriage would only be for me. She would be jealous of time I spent with others though, and would be hurt that I suggested it.

I just don't get it. You're concerned that she would be "hurt" if you spent time with others, but...

 

...she's not concerned about the damage to your psyche, self-esteem, manhood or prostate from being married to someone who "doesn't need sex"? Absent compelling medical reasons, any spouse that uses low libido, "not interested anymore" or other similar excuses is perpetuating a fraud. There are two forms of marital cheating - one that involves a third party and another that involves a spouse that ignores the bond and commitment to their mate. Both are equally and literally "unfaithful".

 

LVspecB

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I just don't get it. You're concerned that she would be "hurt" if you spent time with others, but...

 

...she's not concerned about the damage to your psyche, self-esteem, manhood or prostate from being married to someone who "doesn't need sex"? Absent compelling medical reasons, any spouse that uses low libido, "not interested anymore" or other similar excuses is perpetuating a fraud. There are two forms of marital cheating - one that involves a third party and another that involves a spouse that ignores the bond and commitment to their mate. Both are equally and literally "unfaithful".

The difference is in what society teaches us. Heck, "lust" is even one of the seven deadly sins.

 

Is part of the marriage commitment "I'll make love with you?" No, but "I won't make love with anyone else" is. (Not saying that's right or wrong, just saying that that's what our society and legal system say.)

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Wow. I can't imagine being so at peace with being a dishonest person. To say that sneaking doesn't hurt anyone... wow. That speaks volumes to your character. No more argument from me. It's like trying to convince the Taliban that murder is wrong.

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justmyway1972

Ok, Well I have read everything that you have been talking about on this topic, Now let me give you this one! I am in the same situation, and guess what? I am a woman and it is my husband who doesnt want to have sex with me!!! Now thats new!!

We have only been married for one year, and in begining it was wonderful, (the dating part), heck we only had sex once during our honeymoon. I have tried everything. I DO NOT WANT to cheat on him, but he is almost leaving me no choice. I have told him that i have needs to and he is not meeting them, and have begged him not to push me towards someone else. Here is the real kepper, he is only 30 years old!!!:( Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

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Wow. I can't imagine being so at peace with being a dishonest person. To say that sneaking doesn't hurt anyone... wow. That speaks volumes to your character.
Actually, my spouse knew I was good at deception before we ever married (a bit of a "colorful" past.) But yep, I'm good at it. I've snuck money under the kid's pillow pretending to be the tooth fairy, I've hidden Christmas gifts or wrapped them deceptively...

 

Maybe I should change my handle to "E-VILLE_guy." :p

 

Ok, Well I have read everything that you have been talking about on this topic, Now let me give you this one! I am in the same situation, and guess what? I am a woman and it is my husband who doesnt want to have sex with me!!! Now thats new!!

Actually, quite a few ladies here in the same boat as you. Skim the forums more, look for "Luvstarved," among others... Mis-matched libidos hit folks of both genders though, I feel for you.:(

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Is part of the marriage commitment "I'll make love with you?" No, but "I won't make love with anyone else" is.

I can't help but disagree with this in both a literal and figurative sense. If we don't feel that marriage obligates us (the "sweetest debt", as they say :) ) to work to ensure our mates (reasonable) sexual satisfaction, than the 50% + divorce rate is easily understood. Understand that I'm not talking about those married to abusers, cheaters, etc., but a spouse in an otherwise functioning marriage that "gives up" on sex (or does not make a good faith effort to address sexual problems) is breaking his or her wedding vows and "marriage commitment".

 

LVspecB

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Astounding. Pretending to be the tooth fairy and cheating on your spouse are the same to you. Wow.

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I agree. I think that his point was precisely that the vow to be a lover to your spouse is not as specifically laid out in the same way that being faithful is - and thus it's given very little value as a problem.

 

The end result is that the non-participating spouse suffers very little, if any stigma from this, especially if that spouse if female. On the other hand, adultery is slapped down hard and the offending spouse gets his/her nose rubbed in the violation of that very specifically stated vow.

 

I can't help but disagree with this in both a literal and figurative sense. If we don't feel that marriage obligates us (the "sweetest debt", as they say :) ) to work to ensure our mates (reasonable) sexual satisfaction, than the 50% + divorce rate is easily understood. Understand that I'm not talking about those married to abusers, cheaters, etc., but a spouse in an otherwise functioning marriage that "gives up" on sex (or does not make a good faith effort to address sexual problems) is breaking his or her wedding vows and "marriage commitment".

 

LVspecB

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Astounding. Pretending to be the tooth fairy and cheating on your spouse are the same to you. Wow.

Yup, pretending to be the tooth fairy (or Santa) and hiding infidelity from your spouse are very similar. In both cases, you're deceiving in the interest of another's happiness. (And there's a lot more examples of this we could think of.);)

 

 

 

 

I can't help but disagree with this in both a literal and figurative sense. If we don't feel that marriage obligates us (the "sweetest debt", as they say :) ) to work to ensure our mates (reasonable) sexual satisfaction, than the 50% + divorce rate is easily understood. Understand that I'm not talking about those married to abusers, cheaters, etc., but a spouse in an otherwise functioning marriage that "gives up" on sex (or does not make a good faith effort to address sexual problems) is breaking his or her wedding vows and "marriage commitment".

 

LVspecB

I agree. I think that his point was precisely that the vow to be a lover to your spouse is not as specifically laid out in the same way that being faithful is - and thus it's given very little value as a problem.

 

The end result is that the non-participating spouse suffers very little, if any stigma from this, especially if that spouse if female. On the other hand, adultery is slapped down hard and the offending spouse gets his/her nose rubbed in the violation of that very specifically stated vow.

That's it. Complain about a frigid spouse and you'll get laughter. Complain about a cheating spouse and you'll get "Oh you poor thing! leave the b@$tard/b!tch!!!"
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I can't help but disagree with this in both a literal and figurative sense. If we don't feel that marriage obligates us (the "sweetest debt", as they say :) ) to work to ensure our mates (reasonable) sexual satisfaction, than the 50% + divorce rate is easily understood. Understand that I'm not talking about those married to abusers, cheaters, etc., but a spouse in an otherwise functioning marriage that "gives up" on sex (or does not make a good faith effort to address sexual problems) is breaking his or her wedding vows and "marriage commitment".

 

LVspecB

 

 

and this is why I can look at my cheating friend and not feel one bit of ill will towards him. I can see why some people do indeed cheat.

 

I don't agree with it but I certainly understand why. Perhaps if I were in his shoes I would cheat too?

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Yup, pretending to be the tooth fairy (or Santa) and hiding infidelity from your spouse are very similar. In both cases, you're deceiving in the interest of another's happiness. (And there's a lot more examples of this we could think of.);)

 

Oh my god. What color is the sky in your world? No one keeps cheating from their spouse in the interest of another's happiness. They do it for the same reason they're cheating, for their own happiness. They are protecting themselves from the consequences of their actions.

 

Wow.

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Hi all,

 

First time post here.

I've done everything I can but after a dozen years of marriage I find myself begging my wife for sex...just plain old sex as shes not into anything else like watching porn together, or anything more kinky. Forget anything like anal, swinging, or anything THAT liberal...it'll never happen.

She thinks our marriage is just fabulous and she tells me that every day. I have mentioned to her that I would like more intimacy but she says our relationship is more than just sex. I think she just doesn't like sex.

I hate to say this but I'm real close to finding another married woman that just wants sex. I know, thats terrible of me to say.

 

I just don't know what to do as the wife won't talk about it, won't go with me to any kind of therapy or anything. She just says we're fine and most married couples don't have sex as much as I think they do. We have it about twice a month yet I would like it twice a WEEK!

 

Anyone else in this situation?

 

I truly believe (as a result of my own experience) that even if a person thinks they don't need sex it is because of an underlying problem. They may not even be aware of it themselves. My advice to anyone in this situation would be ...........don't ignore it. Seek help through counselling, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Sometimes we forget how much we love our partner when lifes demands take over and this can be different for both sexes. Also self image plays a big part as do unmet needs. It's no ones fault, we do not always have the skills to deal with our problems..we get stuck in a rut. Don't use the sex issue to approach your wife with this it will put her on the defensive and harm her self image. Tell her you don't feel she loves you anymore and that you would like to explore your relationship through counselling. Quote a friends experience to encourage her to go with you,but don't be in attack mode. I know you will gain something from it.

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