My wife and I

[Sanyathain]

Good Day to all,

 

I have been lurking on this forum for a few weeks and I am here for some advice. We have been fighting for a few weeks and my wife wants a divorce. I have done a few horrible things to her. I wanted to commit suicide and wrote her a note and then went off to commit the act. My wife has a history with others and suicide and I was not aware of this. She views this act as abuse on my part.

 

So she feels we need to get divorced. I am not sure that this is right I respect her decision but she also knows that I view abuse as a reason to leave without question. My wife and I went to a therapist today and it was worse. Niether of us trusted the guy and he just did not seem interested in our problems or issues seemed to sees us as a meal ticket so to speak. Now she is reluctant to go and more she does not see any other resolution to this then divorce.

 

I want to try and get help and resolve the issues we have had in the past. She does not want to do this and everything that I offer she refuses. With the expection of me leaving or sleeping on the floor instead of the bed. She wants us to be friends and to break up. We have two children and I have recently really started to truely connect with as that has been hard for many reasons.

 

I am sort of at a loss there is more to this story as there is betrayal on my and her part and a whole lot of nastiness that I want to try and fix but she is not willing. She asked me to leave as she thought it would help but I have had a issue with this as a result of a new "Friend" that she has that she has expressed more then just friendship feelings for him. To the extent that she said she would want to be with him if things were different. I asked this question and I admit that I trust my wife but I am having a hard time as she says one thing and then does another.

 

I love my wife a great deal but I am at a loss I pinned a lot of hope on the therapist but it didn't work. I need to talk to someone for my own issues but I do not want to lose my family, my wife and two children, while I get help. She just wants to get a divorce and I do not want this at all. I think we need another therapist but I am not sure she will wait for me.

 

Help?.

 

Sanyathain

[Jake]

Sanyathain,

 

I'm going through almost the exact same situation as you are. I don't necessarily have advice, but I will share my thoughts.

 

The suicide attempt:

 

Do not do this again! I slashed my wrists as well, very deep and very ugly. It's viewed by your spouse not as a release for unimaginable pain, but as another attempt to control her. And she's right, in a way. I was hoping she would see how serioous I was, how sorry I was for my mistakes, etc. I was in a small way hoping she would come back after seeing that. I mean, if I really wanted to kill myself, why did I slash my wrists? There are so many more effective and final ways at my disposal; guns, motorcycle, drugs, etc.

 

I think the answer is, I didn't really want to do it. I was just trying to control her again and diluding myself by saying it was for me, it wasn't.

 

Go to therapy on your own:

 

You can't force her to do ANYTHING. The moreyou push, the deeper she will dig her heels in and push back and withdraw.

 

Go find a competent therapist and talk. Let all the poison out like an infected boil. You need to make positive changes in order to have any hope in getting your wife back, but you're going to need help to do it.

 

My wife refused to come to counselling as well, for a long time. Then, this week just before she moved out, she asked if she could come with me and talk to the Dr. I was both scared and elated.

 

Leaving the house:

 

I have mixed emotionsabout this one. I left for a week and went to a motel room, while she stayed and looked for an apartment. I did this so we could both think and not do anymore damage to the relationship. I didn't want her to act out of anger and make the situation worse by going out a sleeping with some guy in order to piss me off.

 

On the other hand, she's the one who wants out right? Why should you have to leave. After she found a place I moved back home with the kids. I think it's important to keep things as stable and comfortable as possible for the kids. There is no need for them to have to move out as well, and go through her problems and her lack of "space".

 

My only hope now is to distance myself from her, but when I do see her be friendly, fun, and kind. I'm hoping that in a few month she will miss me and want to return. I'm also hoping she will see that I'm making real changes with my life.

 

Good luck,

[Estranged Wife]

Sanyathain,

 

I am an estranged wife, I guess you could say. My husband has tried on a few occasions to kill himself, and there were times when he even made attempts far before our relationship had even begun. But I loved him, and then we had our daughter, Allie, and leaving became next to impossible. How could I leave when I so desperately wanted him to accept us?

 

You refer to betrayal. Have both you and your wife agreed that there has been betrayal? In what way has your wife betrayed you? In my situation, my husband was always very jealous of my friends, and he spent most of his time accusing me of cheating on him. It did not matter to him that I had always been a very sociable and flirty person before we were married, or at least that was what he told me. He said he liked that I flirted with other men but that I was "his." I used to be flattered by that. I used to believe that it was the ultimate sign of love between two people to show a bit of jealousy. That is something that I have been discussing with my therapist lately and have come to realize is not at all true. And betrayal. What about your children? Do you not see your behavior at all as a betrayal to them?

 

My husband finally had enough of what he called my cheating and lying about two months now. He came home from a night out with his friends and noticed that there were two glasses sitting on the coffee table. He flew into a rage and although did not hurt me, he broke the coffee table and the two glasses. I was terrified. He kept raging on and accusing me of sleeping with several of my male friends, almost all of whom I have lost since my marriage. They did not want to come around because my husband was always so distant and unapproachable. What he did not seem to realize at all was that the second of the glasses was one that he had left on the table before he had left. After breaking the table, he stormed into the kitchen and started pulling drawers out looking for a knife. He kept saying he wasn't good enough for me obviously and that he should just do me the service of ending his own life. I don't know what it was that made me snap, but when I heard the first drawer crash to the floor I felt this wave of anger flow into me. I picked up the phone and dialed 911. I told them where I was, that I felt unsafe, and that my daughter was in the house. The lady on the phone made me stay on the phone with her for a little while, but then said that the police were on their way. Allie had started to cry, so I went into her bedroom and locked the door. My husband was standing outside the door screaming and crying hysterically at us. I just sat with Allie on her bed, rocking her and holding her tightly, scared for my own life and for the life of my daughter. When the police arrived, they found him lying on the floor outside Allie's room with a cord tied around his neck, trying to hang himself from the linens closet door.

 

He did not succeed in killing himself. But the police declared that he was a danger to himself and others, and they took him to the hospital, where he has been since.

 

Sanyathain, what you did is absolutely a betrayal. I don't know if you can see it that way because I have never really been suicidal myself. But you have not only betrayed your wife, you have also betrayed your children. I can only hope you get yourself help before you go to the length my husband did. I cannot get my divorce from him finalized until his doctors at the hospital deem him fit to sign anything. This could be years. It could be forever. All because he was jealous.

[2SidestoStories]

What I mean is that I am Sanyathain's wife, and he made me aware that he had posted on this board. I guess part of me feels inclined to defend myself, and another part to explain what I mean by feeling abused and mistreated.

 

We have been together a relatively short time (5 years together, about 3.5 married), and are both quite young. He is 26 (just turned in June) and I am 25. We have two children together now, an almost 4 year old daughter and an almost 10 month old son. Yeah, just babies, really, and it's devastating enough to know that their little lives are going to be put through even more turmoil before whatever resolution this comes to occurs. Our daughter was born previous to the decision to marry. I did not want to marry him "for the baby." It seems as though my "good intention" paved the road to a personal hell.

 

"Sanyathain" has had some emotional problems for a lot longer than I had even known him. He has been suicidal off and on for apparently somewhere around ten years. He never sought any counseling for these feelings early on, and his parents seemed to have chosen to ignore it, or they were just not aware of it. Heads in the sand sort of thing. I know that a lot of teenagers go through their "suicidal phase" or what have you, and a lot of times there are those who succeed in committing. The statistics are staggering, although if you consider in terms of population, it is no wonder that there is so much more of every sort of illness, malady, etc. out there. Much easier to recognize something if it happens more often!

 

Anyway, this threat of suicide was not the first in our relationship by any stretch of the imagination. The first came only about a month and a half after we had agreed to see each other exclusively, and unfortunately, I guess I enabled the behavior by not sticking up for myself at this point: he threatened to leave me because, as he put it, I deserved so much better than he could ever give me, etc. blah blah. Being 19 years old at the time, I thought, "No way! If I love this guy enough, I can solve all of his problems for him!" Naivete, thou art a foul mistress...Over the years there had been several more incidents of his self-loathing and repeated dismissals of my suggestion that he seek counseling for both anger issues and his depression. Flat out refusals, mind you. And this boy is smart, so he came up with a slew of excuses to not go; everything from "We can't afford it!" (to which I would say, "We can't afford NOT to!") to "I'll lose my job!" (Bull Honkey.) His anger even ranged to the point where he was lashing out at our daughter physically. A point of shame for me, since I felt I could do nothing about it. Fortunately, he really has since then come to realize it when he starts to get rough with her and will back down. He has never been physically abusive to me, though. Important to note.

 

Anyway, at the time that he posted this message, "Sanyathain" had indeed made a threat of suicide in the form of a note which he proceeded to (cowardly?) hand TO MY DAUGHTER as he walked out the front door. She even THANKED him, because it was a present from her daddy in her mind. It literally makes me ill to think of it. In the note, he claimed he was going to throw himself in front of traffic, and that I should be sure to destroy the note so that, direct quote, "it would make collecting insurance money easier since..." he wanted to make the throwing himself in front of a car look like an accident. It was "what I wanted" after all. Thus began the tumult that led to his posting here. But it did not stop there.

 

Rather than back off and let me have space, he would call literally at times for an hour at a time from work, and when he got home, he would basically badger me with "trying to sort everything out." Oh, and to note, he had accused me of adultery, which is an absolute falsehood that he has convinced himself of completely

and irrationally. I don't care HOW unhappy I have been...I am NOT a cheater. The fact is that previous to my relationship with him, I had several male AND female friends, and as time passed, I lost every one of my male friends (they hated coming around because he was always so cold and nasty to them) but I am fortunate that my female friends have been and always will be there for me. They had all begun to really worry about me. My entire being had been consumed by this man and what they all pointed out were unreasonable "requests" on his part: for example, he does not drive, and therefore since I do, it became an intense burden for me to tote around he and the kids and the groceries and everything else; he has apparently always had a kind of phobia about driving. This would not have been nearly as big a deal had he chosen to, perhaps take the bus to get to and from work. Rather, he would prefer to inconvenience anyone who'd let him get away with it. (Sorry...that was bitter.)

Another example is that he has always been worried, and by worried, I mean to the point of obsessiveness, about money. He says he would insist that I go out and do things with my friends (all of whom he had nasty little nicknames for, by the way) and then complain loudly about not having enough money to do everything he wanted to do. Understand that in the past five years there have been perhaps a dozen items of clothing not counting undergarments that I have bought for myself, and he has spent literally thousands of dollars on home computers, video games, and a fairly decent home entertainment center. He has basically immersed himself in "stuff" while I have felt like a horrible person for wanting to buy myself a new bra! Yet he does not recognize any of this behavior as destructive nor as mistreatment on his part. Rather, when I told him I felt that he was being destructive, he first reacted overemotionally and then blew me off as being overemotional myself.

 

I have spent the past five years living under the shadow of his behavior. Behavior that he may not even realize he is doing. Yet he has refused counseling. Until now: I finally got up the gall to ask him to leave for a few days, because his incessant badgering was absolutely wearing me down and making me incapable of taking care of the kids. He finally complied, but under the condition that I let him come over to read our daughter her bedtime story. This past Wednesday evening he showed up and asked what we had done for the day. I mentioned that my brother's girlfriend had visited, and that the fellow whom he has accused me of cheating with also showed up with his sister for a visit. This point stuck in his craw, and he started anew with his badgering. A lengthy fight ensued. He kept flipping back and forth between being pissed off and trying to play the role of "the guy who really wants to save the marriage" (which I kept telling him was over, because I was done living my life in fear that he was going to hurt me or the children or himself anymore...)

 

Then he told me that he had never wanted our son in the first place. This was an example he gave me to show me the kind of "effort" he was putting into the marriage! He never wanted our son, and it took an intense amount of effort for him to accept this "thing he never wanted." Something snapped in me then, and I could not tell you what it was. I was absolutely certain that I was done. He said something about how he really thought he was doing better with the kids (he's had more love for his video games than his family, in my opinion, a point of contention that has been present for our entire relationship) and wanted to know what else he could do to "help things." I told him he could go to hell. He asked, as though I was joking, "Isn't there anything but eternal damnation?" I told him I wasn't the one to judge that.

 

He stood up from his chair then and got in my face, telling me to get him an extension cord then, so that he could go kill himself. I did not respond to him at all. Instead I went to the phone and dialed 911. He panicked. His response was to shout at me, "Don't call 911! I'LL LOSE MY JOB!" Nice to know his priorities are straight, eh? He then stormed around the house dragging various instruments of potential harm to himself into our daughter's bathroom; right across from her bedroom door. Thank God the children slept soundly through the whole thing. Important to note here is that my father, who lives in the back section of the house, was awakened by my screams and managed to somehow keep "Sanyathain" from actually doing harm to himself or the kids, which I could not tell you whether he thought of or not.

 

Anyway, at this point, he is at his parents' house. I have chosen to have practically zero contact with him. He has called the house and my cell phone a couple of times, but I have caller ID and will not pick up. The cops apparently kept him out for quite a while after his threat on Thursday morning and had a "chat" with him...he kept telling them that he would rather die than be medicated, etc. Then, they took him away to his parents' house. They made him go to a physician who put him on some meds. Fine and dandy, except that I truly feel he should have been checked into the mental health center. Even if his threats had merely been "threats" and not intended to do anything but force me to stay with him, that is still sick and cruel, and he deserves nothing less than hospitilization.

 

All this is only scratching the surface. Even should the psych appointment he has set up in about a week prove that he has some sort of mental illness, which frankly would not surprise me, I still feel justified in leaving, if for no other reason than to protect my children. Perhaps someone out there could offer insight or comments. I am almost at message completion here, so I have to stop.

[moimeme]

It certainly sounds as though he has some sort of disorder, and you are right to protect your children. Those kids need a stable environment if they are to grow up healthy and so they (and therefore you) cannot live with this person. It sounds as though he will need long-term treatment.

 

TO SANYATHAIN:

 

Get help. You are living a miserable life and help is at hand but YOU must avail yourself of the help. Go to a therapist; if they prescribe meds, take them. It's the only way you will be able to live a better life. You need help badly.

[Carly]

My heart goes out to both of you.

 

The husband is a very troubled man who needs some serious help. The wife is tormented by the demise of her husband, her marriage, and the family unit as she knew it.

 

To the wife: I agree that it is time for you to move on. For the sake of your kids and your sanity, you know what you have to do. As you have concluded, you cannot help this man, no matter how much you try or how much you want to. It looks like you have given up on the "magical thinking" about how you alone can somehow fix all of your husband's problems. and that is an important first step.

 

To the husband: There truly is help out there for you. You will need to trust the caring professionals out there, even if they prescribe medication that you may be afraid of. You owe it to your children to at least "Go along" with whatever treatment regime is set out for you. While the intact family unit may no longer be in your cards, you still have a good enough hand to enjoy your children and be a loving, caring father for them in the future, outside of the marriage. They are young enough so that whatever you have done in the past can be forgotten, as long as you take care of yourself and behave maturely, lovingly, and responsibly toward them in the future.

 

I agree with every word that Moimeme has written in her advice to both of you.

 

I only wish that I could offer more support, but I feel at a loss. This is a very sad story about a serious mental illness that is apparently compounded by a significant personailty disorder.

 

Wife: You might find some help from web sites on personality disorders, such as msn's"n-partner" forum. While your husband may not nave narcissistic personality disorder, he clearly has many of the traits (even if they are helped along by a more serious psychiatirc illness). Look at google.com for other sites on narcissistic personality disorder for further enlightenment.

 

Good luck to both of you. And take good care of yourselves and the kids.

[2SidestoStories]

Hi folks, and thank you all for your support. Just to let you know as I do not know whether Sanyathain will choose to post here again or not (I informed him that I had posted here as well, and I have no idea whether he has been back or not as yet.)

 

Anyway, he has an appointment set up with a psychiatrist next week. I have begun the paperwork for the divorce. Unfortunately, our daughter's 4th birthday is coming up next week as well. He has requested to see them at his parents' house, which I am okay with knowing that his parents will be there.

 

I am still definitely 100% certain that a divorce is the choice for me. I am not at all pleased by this. In fact, Carly, your description is absolutely accurate: I do feel absolutely tormented by the "death of a dream" that I had put so much belief into. I have told him that I failed him on several counts, and that I feel failed as well. Unfortunately, it seems as though he truly believes he has done nothing that is wrong enough for me to deserve being away from him. I was completely naive and still retain some of that. It's part of who I am, and perhaps it will actually be beneficial to me in moving on.

 

Thanks for the note about narcissistic personality disorder, by the way. There are absolutely a great number of traits which he exhibits, not the least of which is his attitude that I can't live my life without him (yet he wants to kill himself? ACK! I have made a joke with some friends that only he can loathe himself as deeply as he loathes himself; nobody else can possibly know the depth of his loathing!) I can only hope that the help he is seeking will prove to be help and not just a temporary solution only to fail him all over again.

 

Thanks again for your insight and support, at least from my side.

[Tree]

This is a messsage for S-

 

Since you have not posted again, I am not sure if you will read this, but here goes...

 

I encourage you to seek help for your situation. We all have difficult times in our lives, and it seems like you are really unhappy in your life, relationship, etc. I wonder how much time is spent ruminating about how hopeless your situation feels like.

 

The good news is that you CAN find a space with more solace in your life. There are lots of options out there, and due to your suicide attempts, I would be best to have a pro keep track of your progress and keep you on track. There are also lots of other additional ways to improve yourself.

 

Having been through a hard period myself a number of years ago, I recently volunteered for a suicide hotline. This experience made me believe 1) that there are many people out there who want to reach out for help when they are feeling out of control, but do not know how to do this. Your initial posting here made me believe that this may describe you as well. You know that there is a better life for yourself. At this time, you may believe that it has to do with your wife, but the answer is within you. I don't expect you to believe this, or even to feel that this is even reomtely true. But within each of us is a seed, an essential essence that is there, regardless of how lost we feel.

2) If you DEDICATE yourself to improving yourself then you will feel better. In addition, when you have tapped into your internal wisdom, and perhaps with the help of meds to at least initially keep out the outside noise from interfering with your wise self, besides being a more solid and content person yourself, you may also find that you attract good things to happen around you, too. You are currently in a negative cycle and it is hard to see beyond that. 3) There are many support groups, counselors, books and workshops that may help you regain your strength. A good place to start is to look in the Yellow Pages under crisis or emergency hotline and get references of places convenient to you. Then, why not devote a good 6 months to working on yourself. Consider it a job. Except it is even more important! You are working on yourself - your biggest asset, and let's face it, the only thing or person you will have to live with for the rest of your life. You might as well learn to be the best and most refined person you can be. It's really all you have that you can depend on 100%!

 

Lastly, your wife has made her decision, and there is nothing you can do about it. To fight with her about this will only make things worse for both of you. If you don't think it can get any worse than the way it is now, you will find yourself mistaken. You still have a lot of things going for you. Refocus while you are ahead (not in jail, etc.) of the game. And just stop concentrating on "how she is ruining your life." Focus on how YOU can become a better person.

 

Lastly - make a solid oath to yourself NEVER to attempt suicide again. It seems like you may be doing this as a cry for help. But as you can see, it just makes the situation worse. DO NOT do this. There are better, more effective ways of improving your situation. Call a crisis line. Commit yourself to counseling. Read books dedicated to getting you out of depression. That is POSITIVE. Threats and suicide creates even more pain.

 

Good luck!

[d.stevens]

I have some thoughts pertaining to "some" things on both sides. Except a lot would be nothing more than an opinion. So I won’t spew my ignorance. Only one relationship of mine weaved down that crazy road where both were drastically going off into two different directions. Some truly awful things happened (that I didn't mention in the other thread or even wish to touch on) before we finally reached a decision. We both shared a strong personality style, something I didn't recognize or know anything about until much later. Combining that with patterns of immaturity and a destructive flair for not letting go, it ultimately turned into a emotional game of "dangerously out doing the another". It was quit the competition lol.

 

 

I don't know to what point your at. Even being an optimist. I realize now-a-days that there comes a time to step back and walk the other way.

 

Regardless, in addition to seeking professional help, here are some books I'd recommend for you two immediately! The both of you working towards some common goals can do wonders. ie: reading books that will help you!

 

~ tip # 1: get a copy for each of you to read on your own, sharing the same book can be a recipe for problems at this point.

~ tip # 2: No pointing blame. Don't read with the intent to label or fix your partner but rather to improve yourself. Don't go.."awh see, if only he/she would do this". The fourth book can be dangerous in that manner.

 

The books are an investment in your future too. I’d suggest reading them in this order.

-----

His Needs, Her Needs

by:Willard F. Harley Jr.

-----

Love Busters: Overcoming Habits That Destroy Romantic Love

by:Willard F. Harley Jr.

-----

The Five Love Languages: How to Express Heartfelt Commitment to Your Mate

by:Gary D. Chapman

-----

Positive Personality Profiles: Discover Personality Insights to Understand Yourself and Others

by:Robert A. Rohm

-----