He feels that I betrayed his trust: Does the punishment reflect the crime?

[Just2cute]

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Hello Folks! I have been dating Al for about 10 mos. He is 43 and I am 33. Prior to dating Al, I had a close friendship with an older man, whom had confessed serious feelings toward me. It was a friendship based solely on emails with the exception of a few lunch dates. Nothing more!! When Al and I decided to become exclusive, I told him about Arron. Due to the fact, that Arron was married and he had confessed he was falling in love with me, We agreed that I would end all contact with Arron. It just was not healthy to continue any kind of relationship with him. At which time I did. Prior to ending my friendship with Arron, he had offered to give me a gift of money to attend an expensive conference. A few months after I explained to Arron that we could't't continue our friendship, I show up at work and the money was in an envelope on my desk. I took it.

 

Now...Back to Al. I met Al through his sister. Early in my relationship she and I became close. I invited her to attend the conference with me. I also mentioned that she would not be needing to pay for anything because my friend Arron had made the arrangements for me and I would share the gift with her.

 

She and I have since grown apart. She likes to gossip and meddle and I am not comfortable around that type of person. Although I maintain a friendship, I keep it distant. However she told Al of the Gift that Arron had given me.

 

I have recently heard from Arron. He wanted to know how my trip went. I replied and told him it was wonderful and I thanked him for the gift of money. He knows of Al, even at the time he sent me the gift. He even encouraged my relationship with Al. He only wants me to be happy. After I sent the last email, I reiterated that since he had such deep feelings for me, and he was married, and I was involved, it was best we not correspond any longer.

 

I then mentioned to Al if he would be upset if I told him that I had heard from Arron. He told me yes. He then asked me what the rest of the story was? I was not yet aware that his sister had told him of the gift of money I took from Arron. I wanted to tell him but I chickened out. I told him that was it. I heard from him, I responded and nothing more. He then told me that he had heard I had taken some money from him. He is now upset because I didn't tell him the complete truth. He feels that I betrayed his trust. I then told him everything. I told him I was so sorry. That although I am not happy with how he found out, I am glad that it is out in the open. I was never unfaithful to him, nor had I intended to be unfaithful. That gift was given out of pure friendship. Nothing was asked nor implied in return. Arron would never be that way. He knew I was dating Al at the time he gave it to me. I didn't think I was disrespecting Al at the time I had taken it.

 

Anyway....He said he needed a few days to think about things. That was five days ago. No word! I know this man loves me deeply. We have had a very healthy and loving and caring relationship until this incident. Does the fact that he has not called mean it is over? Just like that? I am guilty of not telling him the truth. But it doesn't mean that I don't love him or care for him deeply!! I know that this is the only thing that can come between us. I also know he will call. However I am afraid of what he is going to say when he does call.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Respectfully,

Just2cute.

[Tony T]

I don't think that this money gift is any of Al's business. What you do as a private person is your business. As long as you're not cheating on Al, you have to have a life away from him. Now aside from that, I think you used very bad judgement in taking this money. You had to understand that, notwithstanding your belief to the contrary that Arron is an altruistic saint who is looking out for your happiness and nothing more, this was an investment by him in keeping your mind on him for the future and for possibly manipulating you some way at some future time. People just don't set envelopes of money around for nothing...that's stuff only for Mother Theresa types. And Al knows that all too well.

 

Again, you had no obligation to tell Al, although it would have possibly avoided this situation. But now Al is being a baby and you might as well know you're dealing with a guy who is not as mature as you may want a man in your life to be. A lot of people stay childish for a very long time.

 

The fact that Al told you he would be upset if you heard from Arron is a clear indication that Al is jealous and insecure. Of course that was backed up by what your big mouthed ex friend told him. In the future, keep ALL things to yourself. It seems many people on this board today are in hot water because they opened their mouths when they didn't need to. Why does everybody have to tell other people their business...when it is of no use and can only lead to trouble???

 

Don't call him. Wait it out. If you don't hear from him after a reasonable time, consider yourself a free lady...and a smarter one. There's lots of guys out there. Just don't take money from one guy when you're seeing another....under any circumstances. PERIOD.

[Just2cute]

Hello Folks! I have been dating Al for about 10 mos. He is 43 and I am 33. Prior to dating Al, I had a close friendship with an older man, whom had confessed serious feelings toward me. It was a friendship based solely on emails with the exception of a few lunch dates. Nothing more!! When Al and I decided to become exclusive, I told him about Arron. Due to the fact, that Arron was married and he had confessed he was falling in love with me, We agreed that I would end all contact with Arron. It just was not healthy to continue any kind of relationship with him. At which time I did. Prior to ending my friendship with Arron, he had offered to give me a gift of money to attend an expensive conference. A few months after I explained to Arron that we could't't continue our friendship, I show up at work and the money was in an envelope on my desk. I took it.

 

Now...Back to Al. I met Al through his sister. Early in my relationship she and I became close. I invited her to attend the conference with me. I also mentioned that she would not be needing to pay for anything because my friend Arron had made the arrangements for me and I would share the gift with her.

 

She and I have since grown apart. She likes to gossip and meddle and I am not comfortable around that type of person. Although I maintain a friendship, I keep it distant. However she told Al of the Gift that Arron had given me.

 

I have recently heard from Arron. He wanted to know how my trip went. I replied and told him it was wonderful and I thanked him for the gift of money. He knows of Al, even at the time he sent me the gift. He even encouraged my relationship with Al. He only wants me to be happy. After I sent the last email, I reiterated that since he had such deep feelings for me, and he was married, and I was involved, it was best we not correspond any longer.

 

I then mentioned to Al if he would be upset if I told him that I had heard from Arron. He told me yes. He then asked me what the rest of the story was? I was not yet aware that his sister had told him of the gift of money I took from Arron. I wanted to tell him but I chickened out. I told him that was it. I heard from him, I responded and nothing more. He then told me that he had heard I had taken some money from him. He is now upset because I didn't tell him the complete truth. He feels that I betrayed his trust. I then told him everything. I told him I was so sorry. That although I am not happy with how he found out, I am glad that it is out in the open. I was never unfaithful to him, nor had I intended to be unfaithful. That gift was given out of pure friendship. Nothing was asked nor implied in return. Arron would never be that way. He knew I was dating Al at the time he gave it to me. I didn't think I was disrespecting Al at the time I had taken it.

 

Anyway....He said he needed a few days to think about things. That was five days ago. No word! I know this man loves me deeply. We have had a very healthy and loving and caring relationship until this incident. Does the fact that he has not called mean it is over? Just like that? I am guilty of not telling him the truth. But it doesn't mean that I don't love him or care for him deeply!! I know that this is the only thing that can come between us. I also know he will call. However I am afraid of what he is going to say when he does call.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Respectfully,

Just2cute.

[Tony T]

I gave a comprehensive answer to this post yesterday. You can see it by clicking here -----> http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t25550/ There is no need to keep posting it, no need to post it under a bunch of different categories, no need to post it under different usernames. The people here are very caring and visitors read new posts. If a post is short, to the point and not real complicated it's almost guaranteed a number of responses. There's a time and place for copy and paste but it isn't necessary or appropriate on this site.

 

People who post the same thing multiple times are almost guaranteed to receive nothing. We want to help...so that's why I'm giving you a heads up on this.

[Lurker]

When Al and I decided to become exclusive, I told him about Arron. Due to the fact, that Arron was married and he had confessed he was falling in love with me, We agreed that I would end all contact with Arron. It just was not healthy to continue any kind of relationship with him. At which time I did. Prior to ending my friendship with Arron, he had offered to give me a gift of money to attend an expensive conference. A few months after I explained to Arron that we could't't continue our friendship, I show up at work and the money was in an envelope on my desk. I took it.

.

 

So you accepted this money after you told Al that you would sever contact with Aaron and when you were ostensibly "exclusive" with Al? If, as you state, your friendship with Aaron was over for "a few months" at the time he left the envelope on your desk, what was your basis for accepting it?

 

I read Tony's response and I have to say that I don't agree that Al is acting like a baby. You have shown questionable judgement and a lack of trustworthiness. I think it's a mark of Al's maturity that he is taking the time to think things through rather than to just hastily give you the boot. If Al is important to you, then you should contact him and explain that you are embarrassed/ashamed/etc. by your actions and that you will never be in such a situation again. I don't think Al can forgive what you did untill you are able to tell him that you understand why you acted as you did and what you have learned that will prevent you from ever doing so again.

[Just2cute]

I left the conversation by telling him that I understand how he feels. I hate that he had to find out like this. I then follow-up by an email and explained to him that I never meant to hurt him. I made some really bad choices. In my email I explained that I have not, nor will I ever lie or mislead him again. I am able to look at the poor choices I made and learn them. I ended the letter by saying, it is no only a matter of losing him, it is a matter of integrity. At this point Arron can offer me $200.00 and I would never accept. His silence has killed me. I love him, I miss him, and I hope we can work through this. He specifically told me on our last conversation 6 days ago, he needs to think about this for a few days and he will call me. What do I do now?

 

I agree with you. Al is a very mature individual, and he feels very betrayed by this behavior.

 

Thanks!

Jodie

[Just2cute]

I finally gave in and called him this morning on the way to work. He still sounded soo distant and hurt. I explained to him that I would never let this happen again. I hated that this did happen. I love him and I missed him and I feel that I have already paid dearly for the poor judgment decision. He continued on to say that he doesn't know if he can ever trust me again. He has been burned before. I further explained that this is honestly and isolated incident. I would never do anything that would jeopardize our relationship again. He said that he would call back tonight and we can discuss it then.

 

I am afraid I am going to get the boot! I hate relationships. They are so hurtful.

[Lurker]

Just keep telling him what you have written here. I hope this worls out for you.

[Just2cute]

Thank-you for your support. Have you ever had a trust issue with anyone you were in love with?

[Leikela]

Have you ever had a trust issue with anyone you were in love with?

 

Yes, with my ex-boyfriend. He lied to me many times. He kissed another girl while we were together and lied about other numerous things. We were an on again, off again type couple that went on for 8 years.

 

I was able to trust him again, for the most part. However, there was always this nagging feeling in the back of my mind. I started to overreact to many different things/situations and the relationship just wasn't the same. The innocence was gone.

 

I think when you hurt someone that much, they can forgive and move on but respect is lost and never regained. This will start to affect many things in the relationship if the couple chooses to stay together. Some people can work through this though and remain together. Others can't...

 

If your boyfriend decides to leave you, it's because he's protecting himself. He was hurt in the past so he's even more on edge then if he was never betrayed before. He's probably heard women proclaim previously that they would never hurt him again, etc, etc... He's in a hard place right now. Whatever the outcome, learn from the situation. When involved with someone, it's always a "red flag" to talk/spend a lot of time/accept money from another man.

[lurker]

Originally posted by Just2cute

Thank-you for your support. Have you ever had a trust issue with anyone you were in love with?

 

Yes. And it didn't end well. BUT... I was a bigger idiot than you have been. And I don't think I did a very good job of explaining the WHY of what I had done. To be honest, I was pretty young and I am not sure I cared as much as I should have. I've also been on your bf's side of things and that turned out better.

 

I think there is a tendency to focus on telling the other person how sorry you are and how much you love him but what the other person needs is to see that YOU understand why you did what you did and that you can articulate why it's not going to happen again. Just promising to never do it again doesn't go nearly so far as being able to say why you let your judgement lapse and what is different about you now that will prevent it from happening again. After all, what your bf is most concerned about is that there will be a next time and that it will be worse. If I were your bf, the thing that would be plaguing me is that you had contact with this other guy long after you told me you would stop and that even after I asked about it directly, you weren't honest. That's the bad news. The good news is that nothing physical occurred and you didn't see the other guy in person and you haven't had any further contact.

 

This may sound contradictory, but the key (I think) is not to couch your talk in terms of him but in terms of you. Telling him that you never meant to hurt him or that you won't jeopardize your relationship again sound almost as though the problem is that you got caught. I know this is not what you mean but that is why I think you need to talk in terms of yourself. Yes, acknowledge that you have hurt him and that you regret having done so. Yes, tell him how much he means to you and that you don't want to lose him. But what you need to convey most urgently, imo, is that you are a woman of integrity, with a moral code that can't be violated no matter what.

 

I wish you all the best.

[Just2cute]

Well I sort of just got the boot. He called and explained that he had been thinking non stop....and he finally said that he is NUMB! He can't help but feel the way he does. He would rather just be friends then let it go and be hurt again. He said he has given women in his past a chance before and he got hurt. I further explained that I was so very sorry. I tried to explain that I am a good woman that made a poor choice. After much discussion, he said that he needed some more time....he wants to see if he misses me. If he can change his frame of mind. I told him that it would be a mistake if he let us go over this. He may want to come back and work on things, then he may just want to be friends. He said he was trying to be has honest as possible. I am crying as I write this. Somehow it is therapeutic to write things out. I was strong and ended the conversation by telling him I loved him and I missed him. THEN....I started crying and I got angry. I called him back and told him that I want to understand but I just cant!!! I am super naive...and I didn't take that money with intentions of giving anything other than the money back!! He then said he understood why I was hurt, but did not understand why I was mad. He said the further I tried to justify it, the further I was digging myself in.

 

I then told him, that if it were not that I was naive...that would only mean, that I accepted the money with the intentions of giving this man what he wanted. What did that make me? A whore??? He said now I was putting words in his mouth. Then I asked...what else could it mean? He even made the comment that he called me one night and I was not home, therefore he felt if was payback time..I reminded him of that. I explained, payback for what? The $600.00 Arron gave me? That I am worth so little, that not only am I willing to sleep with a man for a measly $600.00, but while I am dating someone seriously as well?

 

He said that this was going now where! I agreed. I calmed down and told him that I was just so hurt. I really feel the punishment is harsher than the crime. He again said, that give him sometime to think about this. He will be in touch. Then we said our good byes. Now I am writing to you folks.

 

Is there anyway to salvage this? You are so true in your speculations of what he is feeling. But there are merely speculations. The facts are....I didn't sleep with him, had no contact with him, except emails....

 

Thanks-

Jodie

[Lurker]

I'm sorry it didn't go well.

 

Here's the thing: he is overly sensitive to what happened because of his past. So he sees what happened as being perhaps bigger than it was. Meanwhile, you have never done anything like this before (I am assuming) and, since there was no physical contact, you may not see this as "really" cheating. So you are left feeling that the punishment is greater than the crime, which he does not agree with. You can't help but try to justify your actions and/or point out how much worse it could all be, partly to try to influence him to see things from your persepctive and partly to defend yourself against what you feel is an unjustifiable attack on your character. He sees your attempts at justification as a you wanting to excuse your behavior, so he digs in even further in his insistence that what you did was wrong. way of I'm doing a lot of supposing and assuming here, so please feel free to correct me if I am off-base.

 

But, if I am not off-base, the problem is that pretty soon neither of you is going to be able to forgive the other. You are going to become polarized in your positions. So, assuming you really do want to get back together with this guy (I say this because, even if you are successful in clearing this hurdle, this topic will probably be with you for a while), I think the only thing you can do is to have a BRIEF conversation in which you apologize again for what happened, acknowledge your lapse in judgment, acknowledge that you have learned from this experience, and promise that it will not happen again. You can then tell him what you feel, i.e., that you love him and would like to continue your relationship with him, and that you understand he needs some time to think things through and that you hope he will decide to remain in the relationship. Finally, you can tell him that if there is something he would like you to do that will help him understand that this was a one-time event that will never occur again, you would like him to tell you so. But otherwise, you have said it all. In other words, try not to get drawn back into another conversation in which you will each repeat and further become wedded to your respective but opposite positions. I think that the more you talk the worse it will become.

 

I don't think you can talk him into staying with you, nor do I think you would want to do that (in the long run), even if you could. So the best course, imo, is to state your feelings clearly and without anger and then give him the time/space to come to his own conclusion. Frankly, I think it is somewhat unfair of him to do all this over the phone and not at least sit down with you and talk things through.

[Just2cute]

I think you should send me a bill for all your personal couseling during my "romance" crisis. Would you believe that I am a professional, single mother, that handles her life relatively smoothly and have an uncanny knack of holding it all together??? That is until.......My heart gets in the way.

 

You are very correct in your POV!!!! I honestly am ready to put this issue to rest, whether it is with him as my boyfriend or my friend. I am fatigued, tired, exhausted...of fretting, anyalyzing, explaining and apologizing. I think the best is to let him have his space to get over his issues. I did give him a courtesy call this morning making sure he got up for his long trip. But I do feel that is all I need to do. For my sake of mind I need to let this rest. I guess, what I would like to ask you, since you have a good grasp on how he may feel, do you think that once he gets over his anger, he will miss me?

 

Jodie

[jenny]

i think he will miss you, and still loves you, but he has made a clear decision. his 'issues' might include an inflexible expectation of rigourous ethics in a potential marriage canidate; are you prepared to see this as a learning relationship?

 

i'm interested to know how you would feel if he had done this to you? that is, he had a close, older, female friend that was clearly interested in him. he did not return her affection, but continued to accept her emails, lunches, and finally accepted money, and kept it a secret from you?

 

i don't mean to admonish. i have also sometimes accepted gifts that, in retrospect, i should not have. for me, i had to think about why i lacked the discipline to turn down things that i could not afford for myself.

 

xox, j

[Just2cute]

I must add, he lives 500 miles away. He have actually had a very healthy and giving long distant relationship until this came about. He would come see me on avg. of twice a month. We called each other appox. 4 to 5 times a day. Whomever was up first would call the other, and wish them a great day and say "I love you." Either he or I would call throughout the day just to say HI and we were thinking of one another, and then at night we would put each other to bed. Both of us have careers in our seperate states. We wanted to see how things would go, before we would decided if and when someone would move. It was heading towards me moving, but I need to make sure. But we would plan our weekends, and look forward to those. We always have a blast together. Actually our last visit, we were closer than ever. We felt very connected. So despite the fact that it was a distant thing, I really enjoyed him. It was those little things that I loved and miss about him. I miss his wake up calls and bed time kisses over the phone. I honestly thought he loved me deeply. That is probably why this is so hard for me to grasp.

 

Anyway, that is why we discussed this over the phone. He definitely has the integrity to do it in person if it were possible.

 

Just some insight.

 

Jodie

[Just2cute]

You Know Jenny......I feel if I am truly guilty of anything...is that I can be naive`, almost to a fault. I whole heartedly believe that he loves me. I also place trust in his decision making. If he feels necessary to hold a platonic relationship with someone, I can honestly say it would not bother me. He actually does continue a friendship with a woman whom he was involved with for several years. It has never nor does it now, bother me. He keeps in contact with his other ex's mother. His ex commited suicide after they broke up, and we first started dating. He was concerned for her mother and checks up on her now and again. I absoulutely have no problem with that. I know he is a sincerely caring and compassionate person, so therefore it does not surprise me that he does check on her, as a matter of fact, I admire him for it. In my mind, I would think that he loves me the same. I mistakenly assumed he would take the same approach in regards to me. Knowing that I love him and would not do anything that would jeorpardize our relationship. I did tell him, that I had told Arron that I will repay every single penny. A learning relationship...OH MY GOD! I view this totally as a learning relationship. I never had to reflect on my actions before. This is an odd position for me to be in. That is why I have not handled it as well as I would have liked.

 

Thanks so much for you input.

 

Jodie

[Lurker]

Ok, that makes sense (doing this over the phone because he is 500 miles away). It probably makes everything more complicated, too, since it's easier for him to let his mental demons get the better of him in a LDR. I take it that Aaron is located where you are?

 

I think your bf will miss you. Whether he misses you enough to restart the relationship is the question. But again, I would ask: is this even the right basis for making a decision? Either your bf loves you or he doesn't. And either he is prepared to move forward and put this behind you (collectively), or he isn't. Although he has had an emotional reaction up to this point, I think it's now time for him to make a conscious decision. After all, one of the benefits of being 43 is the wisdom and perspective that comes with having been around the relationship block a couple of times. It's been a week (maybe more) and while you and Al may both feel that you should not have accepted Aaron's money, the fact is that you did not betray Al in the sense of having given your heart or body to anyone else.

 

Let us know how it works out.

[Just2cute]

Hello,

Well I will finally say this. If it was meant to be it will be. I am so exhausted by this ordeal, that I need a break. I have accepted both my responsibilty in this, as well as his desire to need space. If he wants to be friends, I can handle that. I can't change him, or what happened, so this is the best I can do. After coming to this conclusion, I was able to sleep last night. I thank-you for your wise insight. You are and have been wonderful!!!!

 

Sincerely,

Jodie