The glass is not half-full, it's full!

[Gladitsover]

If you're on here because of your marriage being on the rocks, ending, etc....I feel terrible for you because I have been there. I was there a year ago at this time. I was married to a woman who had been married twice before, had kids from those previous marriages, and we had two of our own. I raised her kids and took care of her for many years and she spent money like it was going out of style while refusing to work. A gold-digger at it's classic finest.

 

I got the same "I love you but I'm not in love with you" and tried to make it work, but I didn't know about this forum. I sure wish I had. I tried to make it work for about 6 months but, of course, it didn't. She WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR, which I only found about for certain a few months ago. In my state, that means no alimony. In her case, she lied to the court and would likely face jail time for perjury. I have that in my back pocket now, and will use it when I need to.

 

Since I've been divorced, life has been great. I don't have to make a chronically unhappy person try to be happy. My life has been calm and peaceful and I have a great time with my kids. The world of dating is seriously easy, as there are more horny people than you'd think. I am not looking to get married again and frankly, don't even want to be in a serious relationship. I'd rather have my own time.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that you may feel it's the end of the world BUT IT'S NOT! You may be down and depressed (thinking of all the "good times" you've had with the soon-to-be ex). It's a coping mechanism that doesn't work. Remember on "Seinfeld" when George laments the loss of Susan ("She kept such a clean apartment" and "Every Sunday she made a big breakfast. I don't know what she put in those eggs".). Move on. You'll be much better off for it.

 

Good luck and don't let this holiday season get you down. Go do something for yourself!

[vtbrokenhearted]

But what do you do when you keep coming back to, "What did I do?" I've gone a week without asking myself that, and then today when I left work for my holiday vacation, I started asking myself again while driving home? I keep telling myself it will get better, and it already has. Having this thought keep coming back though is what breaks me down. I've asked my stbx and all he says is, "I don't know." "I don't know what I want." I haven't even gotten an apology. I feel like I need it and of course, I want it.

 

Thank you for sharing. When explaining to companies why my checks for bills and mortgage had bounced (because he'd emptied the account after seeing that I had pulled the majority out to keep safe from his irresponsible spending and because he'd told me he'd been having an affair) I had many many people tell me the same thing you're explaining. I can see that it will get better and easier and maybe even beautiful. But there's always that "but".

[Woggle]

I would like to give you a cyber high five. Also props on fighting dirty in divorce court. It is the only language they understand sometimes.

[debtman]

Gladitsover, thanks...I needed to hear that. I know it and I tell it to myself often, but I sometimes don't believe it.

 

I keep telling myself that the current situation is temporary:

Divorce will be final mid-Feb.

She is still in the marital house with the kids (5 and 3). Her new boyfriend (who is also getting divorced and has 2 kids, 11 & 9) is moving in Feb. 1 so they can try living together for a few months to see if they're buying a house together in May when she has to be out.

I'm living with my parents, saving money to pay off debt so I can afford the house when I move back in and trying to fill my time with friends, healthy activities and getting back into my hobbies.

I get the kids 2-3 nights/week and every other weekend, but I still miss all the time I spent with them before, even though I appreciate our time together more now and focus more on just them...

 

So, I know it will get better and I keep telling myself that, it's hard to deal with sometimes...it helps hearing it from people that have been there...

 

[carhill]

Hi OP, welcome to LS, thanks for sharing, and happy holidays

 

Yes, life is indeed a full and rewarding experience. Thanks for the reminder.

[controlledchaos]

i think this keeps happening for some time, but they space out more and more. are you in therapy of any kind? i had a breakdown in a session once, in nov. i was still asking myself " what did i do? or what didn't i do?" " why wasn't i good enough?" and i was crying. my counselor asked me WHY i was crying. i had to think about it, but i realized it was because i thought of myself as a good person. a good mother and a good wife. i was loving and supportive. i followed him wherever he wanted to go for work. i made sure my kids were loved and safe and were being raised with a gentle hand. i was crying because he didn't like or want who *I* was and that hurt like HELL!! after that though, i realized just that *I* am that person. i am a charitable person, i am a good friend, i am a loving person. i don't hurt others, i don't judge others. i am loyal and i give people the benefit of the doubt. it's his loss!!! i do have to work on squishing the "inner talk", but it's getting less and less. especially the more i realize that i am a good person. he was the one that wasn't happy, and wasn't going to be happy no matter what i did for him. it does get better. i think i'm down to maybe once or twice a month of that "what did i do, why wasn't i good enough?" question and when it hits, it's a fleeting thought!

 

my H cleared out the acct too. i tried to move 2.5 months worth of money out, because he kept telling me he was going to have me taken off the joint account, and the bank contacted him and he made them stop, then he cleared it out the next day. so i know how that goes and all the feelings associated with that and losing a financial life you were used to. the first couple months i was freaking out because i was used to living a certain way. i was having breakdown after breakdown. but i've adapted. i've gotten used to living on this. my kids and i are certainly not living the lifestyle we were a year ago. but, we're healthy, we have a roof over our head, food in the pantry and clothes on our backs.

 

it does get easier. it just takes time. and even after a long stretch of good you will find yourself dealing with days of bad. but they will get fewer and further between and your low won't be as low as it once was.

 

((HUGS))

 

 

But what do you do when you keep coming back to, "What did I do?" I've gone a week without asking myself that, and then today when I left work for my holiday vacation, I started asking myself again while driving home? I keep telling myself it will get better, and it already has. Having this thought keep coming back though is what breaks me down. I've asked my stbx and all he says is, "I don't know." "I don't know what I want." I haven't even gotten an apology. I feel like I need it and of course, I want it.

 

Thank you for sharing. When explaining to companies why my checks for bills and mortgage had bounced (because he'd emptied the account after seeing that I had pulled the majority out to keep safe from his irresponsible spending and because he'd told me he'd been having an affair) I had many many people tell me the same thing you're explaining. I can see that it will get better and easier and maybe even beautiful. But there's always that "but".

[vtbrokenhearted]

Thank you controlledchaos. I am in therapy. I've had many breakdowns and although it's only been three months, things are getting better. I realized the same thing about being a good person a week after he left. I went to a meditation retreat, only for a weekend, but it was exactly what I needed to help me recognize the same things you've mentioned that you realized. And when I realized it, I wanted to tell him and I did. But I also have that thought come back and I worry that it won't go away.

 

Did you ever ask your H why he did what he did? Did he ever give you an answer? Do you even want to know? I do. Is that crazy? I just can't get past the fact that after nine years, he can't just be honest and respectful, why he can't see me as a human being with a beating heart that feels things, has emotions. It was driving me crazy yesterday and it's driving me crazy today. I have been trying so hard, but I come back to those same questions. And they just pop up in my mind. Ugh. I just wish they'd go away.

 

Thank you again. It's helpful to hear that another person has thought similar things, experienced similar emotions. I know that eventually it'll get better. It just hurts right now. I'm glad that you're having less and less of those thoughts. Sometimes it's hard to be aware of them, accept them as thoughts and just let them go, but it sounds like you're finding you're balance. It's wonderful and I'll be thinking of you when one pops up!

[KOSiz2Phacet]

Banks don't contact account owners unless there is a major reason, especially if you have a joint account. If you are a joint account owner, you can take out the money unless the teller becomes suspicious that you are being coerced. Further, if you transferring 2.5 months of funds was "normal" type of money flow relative to the entire balance in the account, why would your husband supposedly "stop it"? Sounds chaotic.

 

vtbrokenhearted, whatever you do in your situation make sure you don't start clouding your actions in "mystery" and get caught in either true or perceived lies. That just sends everything down the crapper. Keep your actions honorable, especially if you have children living with you. good luck.

[debtman]

vtbrokenhearted, as much as you might want to ask the question about why it was done, I don't think you would get an honest answer or one that would help you put it to rest.

 

My stbx told me in early Oct., after meeting the OM, that our marriage wasn't working, we just weren't "compatible", etc. Now, she is in our marital home, with our 2 young children and she's sleeping with the OM less than 2 months after I moved in with my parents to get out of the craziness. He's moving in Feb. 1 so they can try living together for a few months before deciding if they're buying a house together in May, when I get our house back.

 

Tonight, when she was talking with me about what I'm making (sushi) for Christmas eve dinner tomorrow night with her mother, sister and brother-in-law (a tradition that will certainly end this year, the OM is out of town, so she asked if I could please come do this with the kids and her family and do Christmas morning with the kids), she said that her sister had told her that I said I would go to the house when everyone else was going to be there, and she said to me "It seems like you don't want to hang out with me or are trying to avoid me or something." I was completely shocked...it's like she doesn't realize what's going on, or that I wouldn't be talking to her or seeing her at all if it weren't for the kids...She was the one that decided our marriage was over, she is the one cheating on me with another man (although she says it's not an affair because she was honest with me the entire time and they weren't sleeping together until I had moved out) and she is surprised that I don't want to be her friend anymore...

 

So, what I'm getting at here, is that they look at things through their eyes. They may never admit, or recognize that they did anything wrong or that their actions weren't completely selfish, careless or poorly thought through...you have to recognize that YOU ARE BETTER OFF not being with someone who doesn't respect your feelings. They may say they love you, but if they can treat you like that, they're NOT WORTH YOUR TIME. There are better people out there. I have so many friends and family that have bent over backwards and completely put themselves out for me that I KNOW what true friendship and love is all about.

 

Feel secure in the knowledge that things will get better. The depression and doubt is temporary and it stems from the fact that things have changed and it sometimes takes a person time to recover and START living life again...

 

My life is largely on hold until our divorce is final (mid-Feb.) only because I actually believe in the vows I took, even though she obviously doesn't. And my life will be completely open again in May when I get back into the house and move out of my parents place. HOWEVER, I am already making moves to start things again. I'm getting back out on nights that I don't have the kids and making new friends, making connections, getting involved in things that I'm passionate about and looking forward to LOTS of possibilities to come...

 

Life is an incredible thing and we are ALL so lucky to have the opportunities, conveniences and possibilities that we do. Don't ever forget that and don't let emotions about people who don't deserve those emotions drag you down...they did that for long enough...

 

[Woggle]

Cheaters have some serious audacity. She seriously does not get why you are so angry with her.

[Gladitsover]

Cheaters have some serious audacity. She seriously does not get why you are so angry with her.

 

debtman-this advice is spot-on. My insane ex thinks I'm her best friend. Keep your enemies close but realize that they're not your friends. Your ex fits the mold of the cheating mindset. She is guilted and wants to have you as a friend, as if you approved. Obviously, you don't. USE THAT INFO WHEN IT'S NEEDED FOR GAIN.

[debtman]

woggle and gladitsover, so right, thanks for the advice. I dropped off the kids last night and she was telling me how "hurtful" it is to her for our neighbors and my family to be treating her so "badly." Basically, they haven't "done" anything to her, they just haven't contacted her at all and she hasn't contacted any of them either. It's like she just thinks that everyone should just accept her decision and be fine with it and move on.

 

She told me that she thinks people are just drawing their own conclusions and don't know the "whole" story. She said she wants to go talk to them, but can't tell them everything without saying bad things about me and she doesn't want to do that. I know that's complete bs and all our neighbors, friends and family KNOW me and they don't "know" much more of the situation than the fact that she's sleeping with another guy in our house, with our kids in there within 2 months of me moving out after she told me she wanted a divorce...It just boggles me that she can really justify ALL of her behavior in this. One time I explained to her that she was the one that asked for the divorce and she told me that my actions over the past 2 years spoke volumes that I didn't want to be married anymore...

 

And, everything is in absolutes, we NEVER did anything together, we NEVER spent time together, we have NOTHING in common, etc. and everyone I talk to tells me that they don't know ANYONE that spends more time with their wife & kids than I did and don't know anyone who made more changes and gave up more hobbies and friends than I did for the sake of the relationship. I don't know what she's looking for, but I hope she finds it for the sake of her sanity and the happiness of the kids (when they're around her).

 

Anyway, I've given up trying to reason with her and am just trying to be civil and avoid conflict until the papers are signed and she's out of the house, then I don't have to deal with her at all anymore except for scheduling things with the kids...

 

Does make me crazy though sometimes...

[vtbrokenhearted]

Debtman, thank you. I am so glad that I joined this forum. All of the words of support and the similar stories are helping me not feel so alone. I feel like my life is on hold too, yet I don't know when our annulment will be final. Things are still unfolding.

 

I do understand that my stbx is looking through different eyes, and I understand that no matter how much I talk, he most likely will not hear what I'm saying. But I want him to know what an irresponsible, selfish man he is by abandoning me.

 

I did horrible thing last night. I called where he is staying and laid out the entire situation. He's staying with the human resource director's house with her husband and two children, and he's been staying there for almost two months now, rent free, eating their food, no responsibilities while I keep up the house and take care of all of the financial aspects. I laid it all out...that we'd bout a house in Dec, had a miscarriage in April, had been trying to concieve since we moved in, got married in August and then he left only to come back to tell me he hasn't loved me for a long time, no longer wants children or anything with me and that he had and still was having an affair since May, a month after the miscarriage and four months before the wedding. I only called because I got another bank statement showing that he's deposited none of his paychecks and has given me money for some of the bills from the money I'd left him. I told her he has become a stranger, a lying, cheating, untrustworthy man. I told her that he was using her, and that never had he mentioned her to me.

 

Her response. I haven't known Jamie for as long as you have, but I know him now, and I'm helping him. He made a mistake, and now he needs somewhere to be taken care of. WHAT??! I couldn't help myself. I told her that she was a horrible, horrible person, and to that she told me she was hanging up. I told her she didn't truly understand. And I continued to tell her that maybe she was having an affair with him too, and if so she was even more horrible. In the background, I could hear her husband asking, "Who is that? What's going on?" Her husband has no idea. I told my stbx I was going to call and tell him everything he'd done, and he said, "I wish you wouldn't. Please don't do that."

 

I just don't understand. I know that people who are down and out need friends as well, but he is so obviously taking advantage of her and her family. Even friends have said it. They said it before I could even come up with it. They said he doesn't know how to take care of himself. He needs a place to stay and she's within walking distance of his work. He is free-loading.

 

I know I need to stop fixating on this, but it makes me furious. How can she not see? Why can she not believe me? My stbx is very very charming, he always has been, and that was one of the things I thought was so wonderful. He could go anywhere, absolutely anywhere and he'd instantly make a friend. Now he's using it to get what he wants.

 

We had some problems, but they were problems that could have been addressed. Now his lying is creating a nightmare. And on top of it, the woman who I talked with and said she was hanging up now called back today while I was out removing snow to say that she needed to talk with me about some of the things I said the night before. Do I call her back? I've said what I wanted to say. Why do I need to call her back? I've expressed it all, the pain, the shock, the disbelief.

 

I haven't been like this everyday. It just pops up when I get another medical bill or another bank statement that shows his irresponsible nature and lack of responsibility.

 

He also lost his key to the house, just so happened to be the day I asked him to come let the dog out because I wouldn't be home until late. Yup, he never showed to feed and let the dog out. He's now insisting, along with his parents, that I give him a key. He left, won't talk with me like a normal human being and he wants a key?! I told him no, and so he said he'd call a locksmith to come and make him a new one.

 

What should I be doing? Why is he making things so difficult? Why can't he just talk? Ugh. I'm trying to live; I've started going out as much as I can and have planned a few things for the next couple of months, but I can't get over him just up an leaving two months after the wedding.

 

I think I can talk with him and let him share his feelings, but he recently told me, I know I did something bad, but I don't have anything else to say to you. I know I'm not going to understand why he's done this, but now why can't he just treat me like the kind, good person I've always been? Why is so angry and mean to me right now? I asked him why he thought he should be treating me as though I am in the wrong. Again he had no answer.

 

Thanks for listening to me vent. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Woggle]

People in the affair fog have no concept whatsoever of reality. Talking to them is like talking to somebody who seriously believes that we are on Jupiter instead of earth.

[debtman]

vtbrokenhearted, sorry, it's the hardest thing to deal with, but believe me when I tell you that he did you a favor. You deserve better. Anyone who can treat you the way he has is NOT the kind of person you want to be married to and committed to for the rest of your life. It's the hardest thing ever, but, I think you should let it go. You're better off. He's not looking to change, he's not looking to "fix" what's broken in him. He's just looking for the next person to help him and he may have found it.

 

Woggle is SOOO right. I got 3 calls from my stbx today and every critique she had of our relationship was a matter of absolutes. "We CAN'T EVER discuss things without having a fight." "You NEVER wanted to spend time with me." "For 10 years you NEVER did what I asked of you." And I know it's not true, but it makes her feel better about giving up on the marriage and going to the OM.

 

But, I know it's not going to work for her again in this. She's setting herself up for a repeat performance and there's nothing I can do but watch. But, at least this time, I'm in the audience and not on stage with her. Not my problem this time...

 

Once again, I'm sorry this happened to you, sorry it happens to any of us, no one deserves to be treated this way, especially by people who claimed to love us and promised to be with us "for better or worse." Be glad it happened now...take some solace in the fact that life will get better, it will go on, go back and read what Gladitsover said again...your current situation is TEMPORARY!! In a year, even six months, you'll move on, emotionally and mentally...take that as consolation...

 

Good luck...

[debtman]

I've been trying to stick to some advice I saw on here about contact with the stbx where I don't reply to emails, let calls go to VM and only discuss things that relate to the kids or finances. That was working pretty well until this weekend, when my year started off with a MASSIVE email from her describing in detail how horrible our 10 year relationship was, how she was ALWAYS second place to my friends and hobbies and how many other men she turned down and passed on because she loved me so much. It was very hurtful and shocking to see how she was justifying her current actions and how she had compartmentalized our entire relationship into everything being my fault.

I didn't reply to that, didn't mention it the next time I saw her and tried to act "up" and stick to interacting with the kids. Since then I've gotten 2 more emails with quick, one line questions which I haven't replied to and I haven't had a chance to call her yet, but will today.

Her last email was about wanting to re-schedule our mediation appointment for this Friday, which is supposed to be a 1-hour appointment to review our agreement before taking some time to review it before signing it.

Makes me nervous that she wants to delay that. Everything seemed to be going well with mediation until last week when she called me to tell me she wanted to move out of the house immediately and that the agreement wasn't "fair." Then, the next day when I talked to her and gave her a check for child support, she said "what's this for, I'm not moving out, I just said I was looking at places." Which is not what she said.

Anyway, I'm going to try to get her to keep the appointment, since it's only an hour. Reading her description of our entire relationship has me nervous that she can justify and rationalize everything, including how good a father I am (which she is always saying) and she could suddenly try to move the kids away or do something that would limit my time with them...that's the only thing I really care about at this point...

I just can't wait until this is over, I'm back in my house and I can get on with my life...I know it's a temporary situation, but it's such a royal PIA!!

[starting2wakeup]

debtman, I, yet again, applaud your strength. Not responding to her hate-mail was the right thing to do, though I'm sure it wasn't easy. I would wager that your stbx's email was little more than a hastily written, anger filled rant whose design was to stir up the type of confusion and pain she is feeling now. You not dealing with her, unless it's about the kids, is probably only adding to her confusion but you need to do what's best for you right now. I would also wager that someone around her (the OM) is leading her to believe that you are pulling one over on her in the mediation. As she has alienated most of her friends and family, the opinions of those around here (the OM) now probably carry a good deal of weight. Unfortunately those around her are also probably more concerned with themselves than with what's best for her or the children.

 

Do what you feel is right for you and your children. I for one am rooting for you debtman. Stay strong brother!

[debtman]

starting2wakeup,

Thanks for the words, but I'm not always as strong as I should be and our phone conversation earlier degraded into an argument, then, I got a call from the bank and looks like I may not be able to qualify for a refinance because of the remaining balance of the debt I've been busting my ass to pay off for the past 2 years (down from $40k to $15k), plus child support doesn't give me the debt ratio I need. Even if I come off the payment plan and go back to paying minimum balances, I may not qualify. So, the choice is to KEEP busting my ass as long as I have to pay child support just to barely make ends meet (hopefully), or sell the house, take away the stability that I was hoping to keep for the kids, leave the neighborhood that we all love and get some crappy little apartment.

Then, I got another email blasting me for not knowing what I wanted, needed, how she could help, etc. and I crumbled and replied about how ****ty everything is, how much her email the other day hurt, how hopeless it feels to not be able to give the kids what I think might help, etc.

I don't know, it sucks sometimes. Sometimes it's easier to lash out. I generally call my mom and talk with her since I can't afford to do IC right now.

Life has a funny way of causing change, eh?

Anyway, thanks for the kudos, but they may not be as deserved as I would hope.

[starting2wakeup]

debtman, trust me, the kudos are deserved. You got your debt down from $40k to $15k in two years! That's amazing! Hell, it's d*mn near unheard of these days.

 

You had a bad day. A really bad day and your emotions, your frustration with your current situation presented itself. That's nothing to beat yourself up about. It's human. Now that you've acknowledged it, the best thing to do may be to simply move on and accept it as a momentary, but possibly much needed cathartic release.

 

It sounds like your stbx is trying to route some of her own stressors onto you. As your final D date grows closer she might actually get worse as the reality of the situation SHE put into motion finally comes to a head.

 

That temporary situation I've heard you talk about, it's coming to a close, sooner rather than later. It's just around the corner. It may be one b***h of a corner to get around, but it's right in front of you. Remember what's important to you and you'll find your way, I have no doubt. Just look at how far you have come already.

[debtman]

Thanks man, feeling better today. Had a bunch of long email exchanges today that suddenly turned angry on her end and I deflected, apologized and explained that our jobs are the most important things we can focus on right now for the kids and it would be better to avoid email/phone calls during the day. Hopefully that will give me the "out" I need to focus on limited contact other than pick-up/drop-offs without her taking it "personally."

 

She asked me to cancel our mediation session where we were supposed to review the agreement and take it away to come up with changes, etc. before signing it. She wants to have a solid understanding of what we need to do regarding the house, moving out, etc. before we go back to the mediator. At one point, she told me that I could move back into the house and I told her how uncomfortable that would be while she's sleeping with someone else and she said she could stop seeing him. Completely bizarre, but I told her I would never ask her to do that.

 

She keeps making offers to help, do what she can financially to cover the bills, loan me money, etc. and then, when I mention that I'm still paying for her insurance and the kids she flips out and accuses me of not cutting her any slack for everything she's doing for me and asks how much she should make her check out for.

 

After calming her down and convincing her that I don't want her $ and was just trying to let her know that I AM still "helping" out and cutting her some slack she goes right back to the "anything I can do" statement.

 

Makes me crazy. Makes me SURE I don't want to ask her for ANYTHING. And makes me sure I'll be better off not dealing with her any more than I have to. Only thing that kills me now is missing time with the kids, but, I figure I'll have the opportunity to give them a stable emotional environment once this gets all worked out and, eventually, once they're both in school, I may be able to get them for equal time, not have to pay full child support and be happier overall.

 

Still working out the finances and trying to figure out how to keep the house, but everything will work out for the best. Need to start actively marketing my website skills since I've just taken freelance jobs that have come my way for the past two years (plus worked my full-time gig) in order to pay off the debt...