To stand my ground or not?

[2SidestoStories]

Hi all. I'd like to ask for your advice. I guess technically I'm having a semi-weak moment in terms of thinking about my personal situation. I've been separated from my husband for about two months. In this time, he has continued to act in such a way that I feel only solidifies my decision to leave him: the threats of suicide have continued; three weeks ago when I took the kids to his parents' house to visit him, he demanded that I leave the car there (He does not drive, just so you know...does not have a license or anything. He just did this out of pure malicious spite) so I had to walk home carrying the baby, and holding the 4 year old's hand, etc. He would not even let his father bring me the car-seat so that when I found someone to drive myself and the kids around for a while, I wouldn't have to invest in a new one, etc. That same day, he showed up at the house to continue to berate me, and when I told him that I had finally decided to retain a lawyer, it came as an apparently huge shock to him. (I'll spare details of the 'argument' save that at one point I had gone inside to call his parents to have them pick him up.) He broke down into a mass of sobbing rather than a tower of self-important righteousness then, and with his father's help, brought the car back to me.

 

To continue the drama, he would continually send me e-mails that flopped back and forth between wanting to have anything to do with the kids, and not; at one point, he threatened that if I filed for divorce, he would quit his job and thereby drop insurance coverage for the children (this was just two weeks ago, mind you! <sigh>) Talk about cutting off one's nose to spite one's face!

 

He also sent me an e-mail stating that he could no longer have anything to do with the kids, because all they did now was incite anger in him (his exact words.) This was basically the final straw for me. ? I know for certain that he has not quit his job, but can't say whether he dropped the insurance coverage for the children. I have chosen to have zero contact with him for over a week, which has been incredibly difficult because I really really believe that the children deserve to have their father in their life, but he is simply not acting like a father to them at all.

 

This past weekend was when he was supposed to be served papers. According to my paralegal, he dodged service all weekend long. Ultimately, the papers were posted, and therefore were deemed 'served.' Only about an hour ago, my paralegal called me to inform me that service had happened, and that he had called her to ask whether I'd consider legal separation, and whether I'd go to counseling with him now.

 

Anyone who followed the initial set of threads by me knows that he had absolutely refused counseling of any sort for his anger/depression/suicidal behaviors. He has suggested we see a counselor together a couple of times during the separation, but then has lashed out (ie the car situation) because I have stood my ground. The question I have to pose to you all is whether I should go to a counselor with him now or not. For my part, I know that the leaving is not the problem. I can't. But for the sake of the children, I believe it would be best if their father and I could be cordial. The trust I had in him at one time is absolutely shattered, so this is a rather grim debate for me.

 

P.S. Thanks for reading...I know it's long.

[jenny]

o, Beth, i didn't realize, i'm so sorry. i'm going to go read all the back story now first before replying further...

[yes]

would the goal of the counselling be that you two got along enough that he can be a father to his children, or would it be an attempt to save the marriage?...

 

good luck,

-yes

[2SidestoStories]

I'm afraid that in his mind it would be to "save the marriage." Pardon me for sounding cynical, but...that's a very valid point, Yes.

 

I know my limitations, because I've had them tested and tested and pushed and shoved and creased and cracked, and finally broken. There is no marriage to save. I feel like this may be just another 'tactic.' He's very smart. He's not stable. He can be downright mean and horrible. And like I was saying on the show this morning (in case you didn't get to hear) "mental abuse" is one of those intangibles...it can't be proved. He has denied it repeatedly, sometimes even to the tune of "You're just wrong. I didn't ever 'abuse' you. You just don't see things the right way." (clever, no?)

 

Dammit. Here I thought I was pretty firmly rooted. Remembering strength is hard when a person really seems to be turning over a new leaf.

[EnigmaXOXO]

2sides,

 

I really couldn't blame you at all if you decided to forgo the counseling. It's obvious your husband is the one in need of help, but you've been his crutch for so long that he doesn't know how to do anything without you. But as long as you have children between you, I'm afraid you'll have to continue dealing with him whether he's of "sound mind" or not. Frankly, if in your situation, I'd prefer to deal with an ex who's thinking rationally rather then spending an eternity dodging his insanity.

 

In this situation, if I were to agree to counseling, it would be for the sake of the children...ONLY. But I might also be tempted at this point to make a few ultimatums of my own!

 

First, I would only agree to attend counseling after he has signed the legal separation papers. Second, I would only continue to go for as long as he was employed and the children remained on his health insurance policy. I would even go so far as to require proof that they were covered. And last, I would make darn sure that "he" covered the full cost of the these sessions, since he'll obviously require a few more one-on-one's than yourself!

 

If you can get him in and get him the help he needs, you're life, and the future happiness of your children might benefit in the long run.

[quankanne]

My heart goes out to you Beth, especially in having to deal with an unstable partner like your ex. My advice is to find a good counselor that you can see together, because anything you can do to benefit your children will benefit you in the long run, and their dad as well, even if he doesn't see it that way.

 

Both my sisters were divorced around the same time: the one who was "so in love" with her husband took every opportunity to trash him in front of their children, even telling them "your father never wanted you." The other, who still loved her ex, didn't say anything bad about her ex in front of her boys, instead letting them decide for themselves what they thought about him. And I admire her for doing that, because she put the boys' best interests first and they're pretty stable little ... uh, BIG ... guys, whereas our niece and nephew by the other sister are still trying to sort this out, and they're married with families of their own.

 

Your ex is going to have to figure out how to grow up, personal problems or not. You are definitely going the extra mile by giving your children this (joint counseling with their dad), and they will appreciate it as they get older. Now go kill him with kindness and make him look the jackass.

 

good luck, lady!

quank

[yes]

i know nothing about divorces, but the idea of getting the paperwork done first, so that it's 100% clear that the counselling is only for the sake of the children, sounds right to me.

 

best of luck!

-yes

[2SidestoStories]

Thank you all for your insights...I truly appreciate them.

 

After some meditation on this, I have come back to realizing that nothing has changed at all. He was DODGING the server. He wrote me an e-mail saying he wants to see the children now again. He called my lawyer to ask her to convince me to go see a counselor with him. NOTHING has changed.

 

I will agree to see a "counselor" with him AFTER the paperwork has gone through. I am absolutely willing to continue a parenting situation with him, but for my own saftey, I cannot continue to be married to him. I also cannot foster a relationship between the children and a sick man. I truly believe that it would be far more detrimental to them in the long run. I guess I just don't have it in me to be a "cold-hearted-b*tch" in spite of how much pain I've been dealt. In a lot of ways, I think it'd be easier for me if I could. I just don't believe in hate as anything constructive.

 

bleh

 

The scary thought that keeps lingering in the back of my head are all those stories that have been plastered over the newspaper of late...I don't know how prevalent it has been elsewhere in the country, but here we've had three different cases in the past year of a man being divorced by his wife (or a gf leaving the bf), and the man in the situation committing murder/suicide. In two of the cases, there were children involved; in one case, the children were also victims of homicide; the other, the young children were witnesses to their father's actions. I don't believe that my ex is capable of such things, but then, I did not think he'd ever be so much a jerk as to demand I leave the car at his parents' house and force me to walk home with the children in tow, either.

 

Just an ugly situation.

[HokeyReligions]

I'm familiar with some of those stories about the ex's & murder/suicide. It's horrendous. I would be a bit nervous too and maybe even want to talk to your attorney and/or his doctor & parents about his threats and his overall behavior. Perhaps his parents can get him into counseling, and if you feel he is or may become a threat he can be legally forced to attend serious counseling, or even be committed to a hospital for in-depth counseling and diagnosis.

 

I've been to counseling with my husband and even though we were both trying to save the marriage, my husband also had his own issues to resolve, and his counselor met with him alone and only a couple of times requested that I participate.

 

It sure sounds like a tactic to me. I would not only want the paperwork done first, but I would also insist on him going to counseling by himself and if and when his doctor requests that you participate, then consider it for the children's sake. He needs to work on him and your going to counseling with him will only confuse the situation and give him false hope and keep you emotionally strung along.

 

I hated to miss the broadcast today, but I had meetings that I couldn't get out of. My real name is Beth too.

[EnigmaXOXO]

2sides,

 

I am concerned for you as well. I dared not elaborate too much in my response for fear my paranoia might be contagious! Which is why I think it best to aire on the side of caution for now.

 

These kind of things can get real out of hand. I know... when I separated, my husband bought the house right next door to me where he continued to live for three years. He never did anything "crazy" or threatened me in any way. But his constant presence was intimidating to say the least! He would be in my home when I returned from work until I changed the locks and the pass code to my alarm. He was really upset when I did this, and as harmless as he made it seem, I was really quite frightened because no one really knows what someone is capable of doing in those final moments of desperation.

 

You've got very good instincts and intuition. Listen to that inner voice, and if things start getting too "weird," don't hesitate for a second to let someone know!

[Debbiedee]

Hey 2Sides: I think that everyone who has posted is right on the money and that you definitely cannot go wrong following your gut. Your stbx sounds like he's a pro at bullying and manipulating you and will continue to do so until it doesn't work for him. You've done the most important and hardest thing thus far ... GETTING OUT. I know it feels like it's never going to end but believe me when I tell you, it will. There is a light at the end of this hellish tunnel.

 

My stbx did the same exact things as yours. He also threatened to kill me on serveral occasions, threatened to keep our son on his visitation days and did many, many other nasty, covert ways to get me to come back. I stood my ground and did a lot of crying and moaning to my friends but I basically allowed my lawyer to do my dirty work. DO THE SAME THING.

 

Definitely get the paperwork done first, counseling second. I did the counseling thing with my stbx as well, under the guise of "making things work" only because it kept him from stalking me and it did help things get done. During the counseling period we did reach a parenting agreement that is now a court order and so therefore I don't regret it.

 

Here's the deal 2Sides -- you are fighting for your life! You're fighting for your children and for their safety and sanity. Do not assume that he won't do any of those horrendous things that perhaps pop in your head; rather, assume he will. Then take steps to make sure it doesn't happen, at least as much as you can control. Tell him in no uncertain terms that you will consider counseling AFTER he signs the separation agreement which does the following:

 

1. You have sole custody with him having visitation rights

2. He will pay a certain amount in child support

3. He will continue having medical coverage on the children and yourself. (My state says this is legally required)

 

Cover your bases ... do not let him take the car again, do not let him threaten you - just hang up. No matter how afraid you are or how freaked out things are feeling, do not let him see it get to you. This is how he gets his kicks. My stbx loved keeping me guessing and under his thumb, once I stopped reacting (at least where he could see me), he has definitely lessened the craziness.

 

Good luck and keep us informed! I've been through so much mental and emotional abuse myself and I can feel your pain. If you need to talk, just email me!

 

Remember: Stand your ground and keep your chin up and your eyes focused on your future. Hugs,

 

Debbie

[d.stevens]

What input is he getting from his family? It sounds to me like he's keeping a lot of people around him in the dark as to the actual gravity of the situation. A clever person's tool. Yeah family may know of obvious problems, but maybe aren't aware of how serious. It appears that every step you take to continue with your decision (rightfully so), he "reacts" with behavior that indicates he's in denial. The further you go in one direction the less control he has therefore displays a higher level of anxiety. He's obviously not getting it into his head. I fear that he chooses not to listen because he, in his mind, would then be looking in the mirror at a failure. I sure can't speak for all males, but I know of some that will go to extreme lengths to avoid having to face the prospect that they have or are failing.

 

This may sound odd, but bare with me. He may need another male that he respects, ie: perhaps his father, to explain to him that it's over. That coming from you or a lawyers will likely not sink in. He will otherwise always convince himself there's a chance. The cycle may continue until something bad happens to end it. Judging by what you've stated on how the family has handled his suicide attempts. They may just not know how to deal with it...or they choose to not acknowledge it also.(along with probably your situation too)

 

Remember with males, it all about ego.

 

Your probably heading into the most difficult time. So, stay safe and be strong. Your doing all the right things! It’s probably a good idea to have someone with you that you trust while around him too. Especially if you feel he's unpredictable and you continue to see new sides of him.

 

Yes, I too think his counseling thing is a game or tactic. It's just a way to get you to let up in this game of Tug of war.

 

The others gave excellent advice!

 

I wish you the best!!

 

d.man

[2SidestoStories]

Hey d.man,

 

You provide some VERY compelling points. His family seems to be as firmly rooted in denial as he is. They say the apple doesn't fall far from the tree; an anecdote to give this more weight is that a couple of weeks ago, I finally demanded of him that he give me signed letters to the effect that he was "giving everything up." In my mind, this was me saying "Enough of your jerking me around!" He agreed to do so on the premise that I would go to his parents' house (with his father present as a 'witness' mind you) to pick up said documentation. Upon entering the house, I was led to the kitchen, asked to sit, he was brought into the kitchen, and his father proceeded to leave the room! Before long, the threat of "If I get served divorce papers, I will kill myself," happened (again.) So I asked him if he had told his father of this intention; he called his father into the room, and I was suddenly pushed into third person perspective: he told his father that the most reasonable end to this whole situation was to end his life. Daddy dearest proceeded to say, "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. SHE doesn't want you to die! SHE doesn't even want to get the divorce, you dolt!" Shortly thereafter, his mother arrived home (she has never liked me and has made this quite clear on several occasions. She told him recently that I was not the girl she'd have chosen for him to marry (!!!!) I'm laughing with a nice bitter tone to my voice right now...) Anyway, in a completely non-chalant manner, Dad says to Mom, "Your son has decided that he's going to kill himself if SHE divorces him." His mom's response: "Oh *****! That's just your body telling your brain that you're not on the right medication!" That they were not at all taking what he was saying seriously was foul enough, but to sit and listen to them feeding him lines like, "You weren't raised this way! How can you think of hurting yourself when you know it'd KILL your grandmother!?" was absolutely nauseating. Denial doesn't even begin to cover it.

 

I have to agree that I have received excellent advice from everyone. I appreciate the many viewpoints and thoughts that everyone has given me to consider. It's especially nice to have input from a male perspective, because as they say, "Know thy enemy better than thy friends."

 

Remember with males, it all about ego.

 

This is especially frightening when the ego happens to be driving in the guise of a "man" who has the intellectual capacity of a genius, but the perception of reality that an intensely sheltered and spoiled child has. shudder

[moimeme]

Beth!

 

I can't believe I missed this one when you posted.

 

The scary thought that keeps lingering in the back of my head are all those stories that have been plastered over the newspaper of late...I don't know how prevalent it has been elsewhere in the country, but here we've had three different cases in the past year of a man being divorced by his wife (or a gf leaving the bf), and the man in the situation committing murder/suicide. In two of the cases, there were children involved; in one case, the children were also victims of homicide; the other, the young children were witnesses to their father's actions. I don't believe that my ex is capable of such things, but then, I did not think he'd ever be so much a jerk as to demand I leave the car at his parents' house and force me to walk home with the children in tow, either.

 

You know I understand about being with someone with a disorder. I also have learned a lot about disorders. Unfortunately, untreated bipolar can be one of the scarier disorders in terms of the situations you describe.

If it were me, I would definitely go to counselling even before signing the papers. Use any means you can to get him diagnosed (if he hasn't been formally diagnosed; I forget whether that's the case) and hopefully treated. Certainly you can demand a psychological assessmentl as part of any custody agreement, which is why you should do this before the papers are signed. You may have to undergo one, as well, but where the welfare of your children is concerned, you need this stuff on record.

 

You need to find an excellent psychologist who is skilled in diagnosing and treating people with bipolar disorder and then explain your situation to that person. I know of many wives who have gotten their disordered spouses into treatment by persuading them to go to 'counselling'. The psychologist then has an opening to suggest diagnosis and treatment. If the issue of custody or visitation depends on him getting treated, he might be more motivated.

 

I know how hard it is to not think of him as a normal guy just being a jerk. The problem with mental disorders is that they are invisible. We look at these people behaving badly and our brains want to believe that they could just smarten up. You really can't deal with him as you would a man without a disorder. You need different strategies for yourself and for exiting the relationship.

 

Actually, Beth, have you informed the police of his repeated threats? I'm sorry to say this, but you know these people often carry out these threats. We have a case here where six children were murdered by their father. When you're in a situation like this, it's hard to believe that you are actually in the middle of a potentially dangerous situation - it's so unreal; surreal really but you are. At this point, err on the side of caution in every respect. He might have a few undiagnosed comorbidities complicating the bipolar, even. Don't be alone with him any more. Don't go to the inlaws any more.

[moimeme]

This is especially frightening when the ego happens to be driving in the guise of a "man" who has the intellectual capacity of a genius, but the perception of reality that an intensely sheltered and spoiled child has. shudder

 

Remember, he hasn't chosen to be this way. That's the wretched thing of it all.

[2SidestoStories]

Merry, love...

 

The worst thing about the 'counseling' bit is that after the incident that brought me to Loveshack in the very first place (Thread that he began called "My Wife and I" his username thing is Sanyathain...a very common video-game character name he used...) wherein I called 911 because he threatened me quite literally to my face (IN my face) that he was going to kill himself, then proceeded to tear an extension cord out of the wall and drag it and a space heater into our daughter's bathroom...all of this while I was forced to stay on the phone with the 911 dispatcher...etc. The police took him to his parents' house, and they gave him the choice of either going to see a physician (!!!) right then or being locked away in the mental hosp.

 

The following day, he was given antidepressant meds, and set up an appointment with a psychologist. The thing is, the psych and the physician do NOT have contact with each other, etc...and since his psych is not qualified to prescribe meds, there is just this hole in the communication! It's completely aggrivating!

 

So although he is technically under the care of professionals, he is not actually getting what sort of help he really needs, in my opinion. But my suggestions to the contrary have all been construed as "opinions of the evil one" by he and his family, so it's out of my hands what happens to him at this point. It is absolutely a contingency of the visitation (I'm requesting sole custody) that he be with someone else or in what they have established here in Abq called the "Neutral Corner" where visits may take place. It's sad in some ways but is truly more worth it than having anything horrible happen to my children. shudder

 

I'm bracing myself for more and more 'retaliation.' He has today informed me via e-mail that he intends to write a check in the amount of $5000 (right around what is available in our savings account at this point) as the retainer fee for his lawyer. Tactic after tactic after tactic. I just have to be able to not let his tactics scare me.

 

By the way...I have deliberately refused to answer the phone (love that caller ID) whenever he or his inlaws have called here. It still unfortunately drives me batty when it happens, but I'm learning to disassociate myself from him and from them, which is absolutely a challenge, when as I said in the first place, I just SOOOO want to believe that he is capable of being a rational human being. It's all too true that he is ill; that is just extremely hard to understand and accept.

 

Thanks for your support.

[moimeme]

Have you been talking to counsellors who deal with women in domestic violence situations? They may have some very good advice for you. Tell them about his suicide threats. I mean this very seriously. Men like this are the sorts who take the lives of their kids and themselves in too many instances. It's good he'll have supervised visits, but that won't solve everything.

 

just SOOOO want to believe that he is capable of being a rational human being

.

 

That is a trap you cannot afford to fall into, Beth. Please take it from me. He is not capable of shedding this sort of ailment. It's not just a matter of thinking straight; his chemistry is screwed up and that can have very bad effects.

 

It's all too true that he is ill; that is just extremely hard to understand and accept.

 

You need the right chemicals to facilitate rational thinking. In the absence of the right balance, your brain doesn't work correctly and you can be dangerous. It's an illness and he has it and it is serious business. As for the counselling, does he want you to go to his doc or you both to go to another one? In either case, you may be able to report his behaviour to the doc more accurately than he will and maybe help get the dosages changed. Get the psychologist to work with his doctor. They are supposed to do that in these cases.

[2SidestoStories]

How would you suggest I approach this without putting myself at risk? The problem stands right now at me having ceased to have contact with his family as well as ceasing contact with him. I have not met his psych, only know her first name, frankly. Perhaps I ought to try to look her up and see if she is willing to speak with me. I had tried to mention to his father some of the additional, do I call them symptoms?, but to no avail. Lack of wanting to recognize it, as well as their own diagnosis of the problem has prevented them from accepting that there may be more than "clinical depression" at work here.

 

The truth is, his father's side of the family has a history of diagnosed clinical depression; his father suffered it for a while apparently as well as his grandfather. I am not sure whether any of his uncles (they have a large family...) have shown any signs of it, but I would be willing to bet there's more there than meets the eye.

 

There have been times when he has admitted that he is sick, but now with the assistance of his mother and father, he has chosen to use that as a crutch; "I was SICK that day I said/did those horrible things!" etc.

 

I've done some reading about bipolar disorder, and my nextdoor neighbor (16 year old gal) has bipolar disorder/anxiety disorder, and has lent me some really terrific resources about it. I'm no professional, but I can tell you that there are absolutely signs he's exhibited: addictive personality, obsession with money, the suicidal tendencies, etc. etc. etc. His addiction, though, was video games. Anything for an escape I guess...<sigh>

 

Yeah...so what do you suggest?

[d.stevens]

If his father is that similar, then I'm inclined to think his behavior is learned more so than that of illness. (just plain immaturity) On the other hand, it could be illness related as moimeme has pointed out. So don’t rule out having him evaluated if it’s possible.

 

Regardless, you'll likely hear everything known to man why things are now different. So hang tight to your decisions and be strong. Clever people can be very convincing.

 

He may need to find someone else that he respects to fill him in that it’s all over. His father may not be of much help in this case.

 

Anyway I have to go to bed, it's 3 am eastern lol

 

Good luck 2 sides!

[d.stevens]

Originally posted by 2SidestoStories

 

 

The truth is, his father's side of the family has a history of diagnosed clinical depression; his father suffered it for a while apparently as well as his grandfather. I am not sure whether any of his uncles (they have a large family...) have shown any signs of it, but I would be willing to bet there's more there than meets the eye.

 

There have been times when he has admitted that he is sick, but now with the assistance of his mother and father, he has chosen to use that as a crutch; "I was SICK that day I said/did those horrible things!" etc.

 

I've done some reading about bipolar disorder, and my nextdoor neighbor (16 year old gal) has bipolar disorder/anxiety disorder, and has lent me some really terrific resources about it. I'm no professional, but I can tell you that there are absolutely signs he's exhibited: addictive personality, obsession with money, the suicidal tendencies, etc. etc. etc. His addiction, though, was video games. Anything for an escape I guess...<sigh>

 

Yeah...so what do you suggest?

 

 

Sorry didn't see this until after I posted

[2SidestoStories]

Sorry didn't see this until after I posted

 

No probs.

[moimeme]

How would you suggest I approach this without putting myself at risk?

 

Beth, I haven't read enough about this to be able to advise you, which is why I suggested you contact your local domestic violence resources. I know some stuff, but your case is getting into the area where a crime might be committed, which is more serious than the 'regular' dv stuff. Definitely if you can talk to his doc, do so. Some psychologists will not talk to family members about patients but others do. That's where the dv people or the police might be able to aid you. His multiple threats of suicide might just be attempts at manipulation, but you are dealing with someone who is ill and therefore very capable of carrying it out. If he sinks into the depressive cycle, as these guys often do during marriage breakdown, the risk is greater.

[2SidestoStories]

I got a call this morning from soon to be former father in law (here on out FIL, for simplicity's sake, and while we're at it, MIL will represent FIL's wife!) asking whether the children would be going over for a visit today. What with the gloroius advent of caller ID, I knew from whence the call was made, and therefore let it go to the answering machine. I grappled with calling back for about half an hour, and thought that perhaps it would do some good somehow or another for me to try to explain my position to MIL and FIL. Alas, this seems to be as much a moot point as trying to explain to Ex that this is over.

 

MIL answered the phone, and I asked if we could speak candidly. I explained to her that I am not witholding visits between the children and their father out of meanness or spite, but that I do not feel secure knowing how unstable their father is. I was attempting to be very ginger with my terms, since this woman already dislikes me immensely, and has on several occasions made it a point to prove this. At some point I will have to purge about this year's Mother's Day scenario, as it is a prime example of this.

 

Anyway, she expressed that she feels that since we're YOUNG (therefore stupid was the implication) we don't have any sort of comprehension of how things really are. She acknowledged that both her son and I have been through some very traumatic events in our lives. (My thougts being, "Lady, if you KNEW HALF of what your precious SON had said/done to encourage those traumatic events!!!) Then, she said, "Within the past couple of weeks, ***** has made some very serious positive breakthroughs. We really believe he wants to make everything better now. We really believe he loves the children, and that he (insert meaningful pause) still has (pause again) feelings for you." (There was a point when that alone would have bothered me immensely. I now take it as a matter of course.) I proceeded to explain to her that granted, I have not had contact with him other than a couple of short e-mails in the past two weeks, BECAUSE I HAD CHOSEN NOT TO. I told her that I do not trust her son, as he has made so many threats and promises and "Look at me now!"'s that he has subsequently gone back on EVERY TIME. She then said, "Well, I think this time is different." I then noticed that she was speaking in such a way that seemed to me that *I* was the one who was unstable!! She actually had the audacity to tell me that although he has done "hurtful things" he is a changed person as of the past couple of weeks.

 

Before long, there was some strange noise on the line, and it sounded as if I had been hung up on. However, rather abruptly, FIL was on the line. They were both there...both MIL and FIL. For all I know, my ex may have been listening, too. Anyway, FIL asked if I wanted to speak to *****, to which I said, "No." (EH!!? Why would I want to speak to him?) So anyway, it was then that FIL remarked, "What you need to do is decide whether this is worth it to you. Because if it's not then you can just go on ahead and do whatever you want." My response was, "I thought I had made that quite clear already, FIL." He then brought up that he thought it was more important for the children to have a relationship with BOTH parents, even if one side of it was "less than perfect," and that "Marriage isn't what it used to be...means less nowadays than it did 25 years ago...etc." (My thought here was, "Why, because 25 years ago when YOU put YOUR wife through this (according to my ex, anyway, his father had the same sort of thing happen) she chose to stay with you? Because her father threatened that if she left you, he would throw the two of you out of the family, and that was the worst thing she could imagine, beyond putting up with your abusive tendencies?") The worst aspect of this for me was the feeling of deja vu: having the same conversation over with BOTH of them as I had with their son; seeing a lot of where his behavior stems from...

 

All the while, I keep thinking back to the last conversation I had with him wherein he mentioned to me that he had bought himself a new video game console. This was just before he threatened to quit his job and such. Funny coincidence? I think not. Escapism? You bet your sweet bippy!

 

Egads, please just let this be over with soon.

[moimeme]

It amazes me that these people can believe this 'change' has any chance of being real or permanent. The very nature of bipolar not properly treated would mean that you could see a 'completely changed' man for the better for a while, followed by a man completely changed for the opposite.

[2SidestoStories]

Precisely my point. Yet I do feel rather bad for them as well in this to an extent: being the parents of someone who has any sort of illness, but particularly mental illness that has such a tremendous amount of stigma attached must be extremely difficult. Of course, my sympathies have waned in the face of their utter denial!

 

Again, I'm inclined to paraphrase one of my favorite bits of insight posted by Tony at some point in the recent past, that human beings are the only animals capable of deluding ourselves. What is most impressive in this situation is how much delusion and denial is at work here!

 

I'm going to have to speak with a psych myself here, not only for me, but also to be more "in the know" about what to watch for in terms of my kiddos showing signs. It makes my heart sink to my toes to know that genetics may have a role in this. I know that environment my have an effect on how much it may show itself or not, but I need to know how to handle this should it manifest in either my son or my daughter. <sigh>

 

At least I can't say my life is boring! LOL