He feels guilty about hurting the Ex

[sarah12]

Complicated situation - sorry it is so long. I posted this in reply to someone else but thought I'd start it as a new thread. Thanks in advance.

 

Guy and ex dated for 4-5 years (I never wanted to know exact timeframe). Guy fell out of love with ex, ex didn't want to break up but knows it was over, but didnt' want to admit it. So in the end, guy broke up with ex knowing he could never be with her and ex is still not over him. About 2 months after guy broke up with ex for good (it was a long process), he met me and we started dating. Guy and I never disclosed information about each other's past b/c we didn't want to know - it does no good in the beginning of a relationship.

 

Guy and I got really close and about a few weeks into dating, ex saw us together at a bar and flipped out on him. Guy got upset too, felt so guilty about it and at the same time was afraid to lose me b/c of it. We talked, I told him I'd be there for him through it and that I was understanding about it, how she is so upset. He said that more than anything he was afraid of losing me (b/c he is definitely over her, he just doesn't like seeing her hurt).

 

One week later, she is at the bar again and this time, he is so scared of her, he basically hides/runs away the whole night and doesn't talk to me. She corners him and gives him a hard time about stuff again and again we talk afterwards and he freaks out and doesn't know what to do. He decides he should give the ex time to heal b/c he feels that is the "right" thing to do. So we are over (indefinitely) and for the next week, I am totally crushed, crying like I never cried before and he is also very upset (according to mutual friends).

 

Finally, I can't take it anymore b/c there was so much that seemed unfinished and I deserved some more answers. So I call him up, friends say it is the first time he smiled in a week when he heard it was me on the phone. He comes over, we talk, and he decides he wants to still see me. So we are together again and although I am still nervous and obviously jealous about the ex, he reassures me all the time that things are fine, he is definitely over her, he just feels guilty. But since the ex decided she didn't want to talk to him b/c it would help her get over him, I feel that things are ok.

 

Guy and I keep seeing each other and have an amazing time, just like how things were before the whole ex situation came up. It was great.

 

Then last night, we were out for dinner and then watched a movie at his place. After the movie, we were getting intimate and then the ex situation comes up again, believe it or not, just when we were talking about having sex. He knows that I was unsure of having sex b/c of the whole thing, but I finally felt ready last night b/c he was very reassuring. Turns out that HE is more unsure now becuase he was thinking about the whole thing yesterday. He still feels really really guilty that he hurt the ex so much and never wants to hurt anyone like that again. We sit around talking (or more like not talking) in bed for a few hours and I am obviously very saddened/mad/upset about the whole thing b/c it's like..I thought the ex thing was over and then it all came up again. So I decided to leave even though we weren't done talking b/c I was just frustrated. He insists on walking me home b/c he wants to talk. He keeps talking and I have nothing to say b/c I just don't know what to say. He finally says that he can't do it - he can't go on feeling guilty and seeing me at the same time. We get to my house and I ask him if he is freaking out again and just running away from it all or does he know that this is really what he wants. He says "more the second one" - meaning this time he knows that he can't do this right now. So I am pissed, that I damn nearly had sex with this guy and THEN he tells me this stuff. So there was not much I could do but turn away. He wanted to hug me and I couldn't do that b/c I could not even look at him.

 

The weird thing is, despite all that crap, I still want him back...I really do, because I believe that things could be great between us. But I'm sick of his inability to get over that guilty feeling!!! I'm sick of getting hurt because it seems like I'm the only one that gets hurt every time. At the same time though, I have never felt so emotionally attached to a guy - I am a very independent girl and usually never let situations like this happen to me where I get hurt.

 

I don't know what is going to happen now - I assume we will never see each other b/c it would hurt too much to do so. However we have mutual friends and are bound to see each other out.

 

Currently I am feeling very empty because I am so tired of this feeling of frustration and hurt. He is such a great guy though and we have had such good times together. Friends say that we are good together and that he truly likes me a lot for who I am and that he was over the ex long before the relationship was over so he will definitely not go back to her.

 

Question is - is there any chance of going back to this? I don't want to let go forever, but I want to know now whether or not there is any chance sometime in the future? Does it ever end up working in the end? All I want is a normal relationship with him!

 

So..if anyone has words of advice, please send them on. Thanks.

[missindependent01]

It sounds like you have yourself in a bit of a situation here. Well I see that you and Guy have a lot of unfinished business and still have feelings for eachother. My advice is talk to him. Tell him the way you are feeling. Tell him to choose You or his EX because it is messing up everything you two have going for eachother. I know he doesn't want to hurt his EX, but would he rather hurt you? Because thats what he is doing right now. And if he still can't get over everything with his EX, forget him. I know it will be tough and you will always have that *what if* feeling in your head, but its a lot better than keeping on going back and getting hurt.

[Arabess]

Personally, I'd have a hard time respecting a man who didn't have the dignity to 'move on' from a relationship with an ex. It's one thing for him to still have some pain ...it's something else when he's wallowing so deep in guilt...he can't even enjoy the company of another woman.

 

If I were with a guy who's 'ex' came up and decided to make a scene....I'd expect him to take the responsibility of controlling the situation and being firm with her. If he's not prepared or ready to do that.....then he shouldn't be dating yet.

 

It's as though he's dumping all this on you. Sure, you want to help him thru it....but at some point....he needs to grow up and help himself. It's really not fair for him to begin a relationship with you while still being all goofy and dysfuntional over his last relationship.

 

PS: If you do go out again....go to ANOTHER bar! LOL.

[midori]

I think the above posts are exactly right. It's all well and good to have consideration for his ex's feelings, but if that starts to take precedence over YOUR feelings, then something is seriously out of whack.

 

A former boyfriend of mine pussyfooted around his ex once he and I started dating. They'd dated for about a year and she was diagnosed with depression a few months into the relationship. By then, apparently, he'd realized he didn't want to be with her, though he still liked her a lot, and cared about her well-being. He waited until she was stabilized on her medication (which took several months) before he broke up with her. Six months after that he and I started dating. He kept in touch with his ex, they would sometimes get together for dinner, etc., but of course I was never involved in that. After we'd been dating for a year we were going to the farewell party of the mutual friend who had introduced us. Just before we arrived my boyfriend stopped me and said that there was a chance that this ex would be at the party, and thus asked that we play down our couple status. I was really hurt and really offended. Eighteen months after they'd broken up, and a year after we'd started dating, this girl couldn't take the fact that we were together?!? Turns out she didn't show up at the party. And my boyfriend had to face an angry girlfriend who was hurt that he considered the irrational feelings of his ex before those of his girlfriend. He never made that mistake again.

 

He's not helping her by letting his guilt about her hurt feelings dictate his present course of action. She needs to move on as much as he does, and if he stays in limbo to placate her, he's sending the kind of mixed message that a desperate woman would latch onto as proof that he still loves her.

[sarah12]

Thanks for your replies. I really appreciate them.

 

I hate to admit that I just can't let go of this for some reason. I am a very independent person and for the most part, think very logically. However, this guy has for some reason got me all wrapped up and I can't figure it out.

 

I want to know right now whether or not things are going to work out at some point in time..whether or not he does want to be with me or is this over for good. If I ever see him dating someone new, I will be soo unbelievably hurt that he didn't come back to me first knowing how we left with our feelings still there.

 

I know I am being incredibly naive here, but for some reason, I just don't care. I want to be with him, and that is all...I want to help him get through this guilt feeling thing, not even as the new girl, but even just as a friend..because to me, that is a really important part of a relationship. What I don't understand, is why he can't see that. Our mutual friend tells me that the guy and I are both the same in that we feel so much for each other, but the both of us are afraid to tell the other, fearing that the other will be scared. I think I've laid myself out there though enough that he should know how much I care for him and like him and he has done the same, except that I keep getting hurt every time even though I did nothing but tell him how I feel..

 

I just care for him so much and I want him to be happy too..and the thing is, he doesn't have anyone to talk to about this stuff b/c obviously guys don't get into conversations about this stuff and he just doesn't have many friends that are girls that he could to.

 

I don't want to be one of those psycho type people that can't get over a guy..but I really feel like I am getting to that point..I know..it's pathetic..

 

God this sucks...why do we get into relationships when they almost always end up being so complicated...

[midori]

I hear what you're saying. It's so frustrating to know that your relationship with a guy, a good relationship between two good people, is being messed up because it's been contaminated with the residue of his previous relationship.

 

I mentioned the boyfriend who asked me at a party to basically act like we weren't going out b/c his ex -- who had been parted from him for 18 months! -- might get upset to see us together. Another unfortunate carry-over from his relationship with this ex was that he held off saying "I love you" to me for a very long time (more than a year!), because he'd said it too soon to this ex when he hadn't really meant it; he thus found himself obliged to stick with her through her depression diagnosis and intitial treatment. So he didn't want to make the same mistake twice. You can imagine how I felt! And when he did finally admit that he loved me, he told me why he'd held off on saying it to me, and couldn't understand why I was really annoyed and hurt. Again, the shadow of this fruitloop ex.

 

This guy was lacking in some basic self-awareness. He didn't have a firm grasp on where some of his feelings and relational instincts came from, and so he didn't really feel in control of how things in his relationships went. Something prompted him to say "I love you" to the batty ex even though he wasn't really in love with her. And then he felt obliged to her, but I don't think that even then he was fully aware of why he felt obliged to her. So he came out of that experience convinced that he should hold back on saying "I love you" until he was really really really sure he was in love. He sowed a lot of doubt in me because of his reluctance. That was a pattern for him, unfortunately: he was so desperate to spare me from hurt that he would basically sabotage the relationship, thus accomplishing the very thing he sought to avoid -- hurting me. Largely because he didn't really understand where he was coming from and where he was going.

 

I think that there are two possibilities: either your guy hasn't come clean with you about why he feels so guilty and obliged to his ex, or he doesn't really have a sense of what happened in his last relationship -- why he felt things weren't good anymore, for example -- and so he can't be sure it won't happen again. There's a third possibility, a combination of the first two: he hasn't been honest with you in part because he hasn't been honest with himself, and he hasn't got a clue how things fell apart with his ex. He doesn't want to cause anyone hurt, least of all you. So his solution is to stay away from you. It's an extreme and immature solution. But if he hasn't got a clue about where he is, how he got there, and where he wants to go -- at least as far as love goes -- then it's not surprising he'd resort to an immature strategy.

 

The only solution I can see would be for you to take control of the situation. It kind of sounds like you're on the verge of that, and if so, well, good luck! As you've said, someone needs to give him a good shake and tell him to get over the guilt. I should tell you that in my experience there are any number of reasons why a person might cling to guilt. A male friend of mine has made an art out of avoiding commitment by allowing himself to be besieged by guilt about other relationships he has had. He's never actually with the woman he's dating, he's always looking over his shoulder at an ex, or the one who got away. Sabotaging things with the women he dates. As soon as things are definitively ruined, the woman he's just left will become the woman at whom he gazes with regret -- and who serves as the defense against the next woman. He's a sorry guy. So be prepared: what you discover if you try to break down your guy's guilt may not be good. If you're going to take control of the situation, don't forget to be observant and intelligent. If he's just sounding passive and wishy-washy, he's probably actually just passive and wishy-washy. Which is not a good sign.

 

I hope things work out for you. I know very well how you feel, and I agree that it's better to be straightforward, and thus find a real answer, than to just accept things as they are without question. It's hard to allow someone to just fade away because they've got some messed up ideas that actually have nothing to do with you or how the two of you are together. You should by all means make yourself heard. But be prepared for him to not get it, even if he listens carefully. If you say your piece and then walk away, you'll have the (perhaps small but still real) satisfaction of knowing you told it like it was, at least as far as you were concerned. You might still have regrets if it doesn't work out, but at least they will not be centered on the awful thought "if only I'd said something, done something. Told him what I saw and felt."

[ThisGirlNameKD]

I think things wouldn't have been so complicated in your relationship with this guy if you took the time in the beginning of the relationship to talk about his past relationship...especially since it's something he just got out of. And regardless of what his friends say about being so over her before the relationship ended, that's probably what he told them, but actions speak louder than words. When you're over a person emotionally, you're emotions are no longer tied up into them. That's not to say you don't care for their welfare, but I'm sure there's more to those guilt feelings that he's feeling other than he doesn't want to hurt his ex. There are other reasons why he's feeling guilty....reasons you could have found out in the beginning before you gave your heart to him. Then you would have been educated about things and knew if this were someone worth giving your heart to at the time. I'm not saying you give or receive alot of details about the past relationship, but it's good to know where people are coming from before you invest your time and emotions into them.

[sarah12]

You completely nailed everything. I cannot BELIEVE how intelligent you are about this stuff!!!!!!!!! Reading what you wrote, literally SCARED me about how right you are!

 

You must have gone through a lot of hurt with that ex that didn't tell you he loved you for over a year. THe thing is, I want to be there even if I am hurt on the way - I want to know that he can let me be in his life and help him along the way, no matter how hard it gets (yes I know, I am absolutely pathetic in that way!).

 

When you mentioned that this guy lacked some very basic instincts and self-awareness, I saw all the same similarities in my guy. He just doesn't know how to deal with problems very well because he is always unsure of how he feels. He has admitted this to me, and told me that he has never felt this way before, but right now, he feels unsure.

 

You mentioned the 3 possibilities and I definitely feel that it is the second one. I have a very good instinct about people and based on what he does tell me about his feelings, it definitely seems that he just doesn't know what went wrong in his last relationship except that he fell out of love with her. He had said to me the night we broke up (the 2nd time) that he doesn't ever want to hurt anyone again and he's afraid of things not working out with us but he also doesn't want me to worry, etc. So yes, he is trying to make sure it won't happen again but he doesn't know what to do to prevent it from happening. The thing is that I want to help him through all this or else he'll be a lost cause forever!! but I don't know if it is a good idea or not..

 

How does someone learn to be not wishy washy and passive? Because I really think he needs to knock up some confidence and aggressiveness. You are right that he is trying everything to avoid hurting anyone and everyone, when really, all he has done is hurt someone..and now..everyone..sigh..why I can't just let go, I don't know......

 

How do I go about finding an answer? I was the one who left him at my doorstep basically because I was too flustered to talk and decide what we would do next in terms of having some sort of communicative relatonship. We both understand that it would be too hard to be just friends.

 

Im sorry my thoughts in this post are just so scattered everywhere. Midori - you are a genius and I really appreciate your comments! Thank you.

[midori]

I've just been where you are.

 

I'm glad you think you've got a hold on where this guy is coming from and what his issues are. I mentioned this male friend of mine (not an ex, I'd never date him) as a different sort of problem: he is passive and wishy-washy about everything. He's unwilling to commit to a job, a woman -- anything. If you recognize a similar pattern in this guy, in my opinion your only option is to bail. You can't fix something so pervasive.

 

And actually, you can't fix anything for someone else. I hear what you're saying about wanting to be there for this guy, but you need to be careful about what you set yourself up for. What are your embedded assumptions -- that at some point down the road he will turn to you and say, "baby you're the best. You were there for me when no one else was ... blah blah blah...?" I did the same thing with the ex in question: hung in there because I believed he really did love me and just needed time to develop trust and see that loving someone like me didn't have to be a scary thing. But I kept giving and getting little in return. It wasn't good for me. It wasn't good for him, either. Despite lacking some fundamental self-awareness, he was a pretty perceptive guy otherwise. He knew that it wasn't an equal exchange, and while I might not have been actively resentful, he knew there was a building supply of fuel for resentment... he felt considerable guilt towards me. Sound familiar? What do you really know about his relationship with his ex?

 

I'm advising that you talk to him, and exercise some control over the situation. But don't put all of your eggs in that basket. It might seem like the way to demonstrate the strength and certainty of your feelings for him, but devoting all of yourself to him will make you very vulnerable to being hurt by his indecisiveness. And he'll know that, and it will scare him. Give to him of yourself only what you can afford to give without any expectation of return. Give that some thought because while your intentions are to be selfless you've probably got some expectations you're not even aware of. This guy is afraid to take responsibility for his part of being in a relationship. While you know he has the capacity to love and have a wonderful relationship, you cannot overlook the fact that he's afraid to. You cannot rely on him ever getting over those fears. You need to take his resistance seriously; otherwise you're not truly attuned to him.

 

Be straightforward. Tell him what you think about him needing to get over the guilt he feels towards his ex. Since he knows the relationship wasn't right for him, since he doesn't want it anymore, he needs to let go -- for his sake and for his ex's. If he doesn't want love in his life, fine. But if he does, you care enormously and would really like to pursue the romance the two of you started. If and only if he drops the guilt. Maybe he needs to discuss things with a counselor, to find out what it is he really wants, what went wrong in his previous relationship, etc.

 

When I say you'll need to exercise control, it won't just be over him and his demons of doubt; it will be over yourself and your optimism. You'll need to really listen to him and pay attention. If he's still resisting, you can't change that. You can only point it out to him. It will be up to him, and you must be able to live with his decision. You can't be too invested that walking away won't be an option.

[sarah12]

I completely understand how you felt abouot this ex.. I am feeling the exact same things right now. Do you think that if you had given him some time to get over the guilt that things might have worked out?

 

I hate this feeling of "not knowing" where to stand on things - whether to be somewhat optimistic that he'll come out of this groove he's in, or to be totally pessimistic and drop everything and hopefully move on.

 

I have no idea how to go about talking to him about this now. Since we didn't leave on such good terms, I don't know what to do. I'd hate to be the one to chase him down again, because I don't want to put pressure on him. At the same time, I think he's scared to come talk to me because of the way things ended.

 

Do you think there is any hope in this guy? What made you finally quit it all? Was there something that you could see - that it wouldn't work out in the end because he just couldn't get over the guilt feeling?

 

There is no pattern of wishy washyness in this guy. I mean he is not unwilling to commit to a job, but he is just not an aggressive type of person. I want him to learn to go after what he wants and to not be afraid to do things like tell a girl what his true feelings are. He has told me he is honest when he says things, but b/c of all the ups and downs, I have a hard time believing it all now. These are the things I want to talk to him about and help him through - but I guess I am the problem just by the fact that I am there - he will feel more guilty .:S

[sarah12]

I really appreciate the responses I got here. I was just wondering if there are any guys that could give me their perspective on the situation?????

 

Thanks.

[Melinda]

Hey Sarah you're getting another female's opinion...I was in a similar situation except everytime you said "he didn't want to hurt her" well in my situation you'd replace that with "he didn't want her to cause any trouble" so I put up with that for 7-8 months and finally put my foot down for the LAST TIME...

 

If he finds that his ex's feelings are more important then yours then you need to move on...that's what i've learnt, but thankfully he saved me from making that decision.

 

In other words he's telling you by his actions that he cares more about his ex then he does about a future with you, and as much as it hurts to let him go, he's only going to stuff you around and eventually probably break up with you anyway, better now than years later right? Who'd want to be with a person just because you've begged them to be with you and they aren't really sure? i would want to know that my bf is with me cause he wants to be, not because I put the hard word on him.

 

I know it's not exactly what you'd like to hear, but I've been there, like everyone else...do you really believe that this time next year you won't have found several other great people to take his place? Don't shut the rest of your romantic life off because of this one guy. Don't give him the satisfaction, rather, do him a favour and let him go...he's obviously too much of a wuss and not enough of a man to face up to his dilemma to figure out that once he's broken up with the ex that's it...yeah he might of hurt her but if he doesn't want to be with her he doesn't want to be with her. He has that right.

 

So remind him of this one more time, and if the answer is still the same, move on because you can find happiness elsewhere.

[Melinda]

he's just letting her manipulate him, tell him that too and tell him to stop being a big baby...what's he gonna do...never move on in life everytime something fails? Is his philosophy going to be applied to everything? If his potplant dies, is he not going to buy a new one in case the old potplant gets hurt feelings?!

 

Just an example

[sarah12]

A friend suggested that I e-mail him b/c that way I can get all my thoughts out. Also, since things didn't exactly end so well, it wouldn't put any pressure on him. I don't intend on doing anything anytime soon, but I was thinking maybe in a few weeks. We will both be heading home for the holidays in about 3 weeks or so, so I was thinking of maybe e-mailing him before then.

 

I read all your responses and it seems that most people think I should run away as fast as I can. I am leaning towards moving on ..but I feel that I need some answers before I go..and even so, I don't believe that I will be able to completely move on and date other people for a long long while..I need some time to build myself up again. And yes, part of me is still holding on to some hope that sometime..in the next few months/ year or so, maybe things will work out again...although like everyone says, who knows.

 

Anyways - I just wanted some input on the e-mail idea. I normaly would just call because I feel that it is more direct and personal..but I'm not so sure this time..

[sarah12]

So I went to the bar again tonight..and it was unbelievable..not only was the guy there..but so was his ex girlfriend...AND my stalker ex boyfriend..

 

 

So ya..im a bit intoxiceated

but any advice/comments on the above (the email thing) would be greeatly appreciated!!!

[ThisGirlNameKD]

Well I guess that gives you your answer

[sarah12]

Sorry but I don't understand what you mean. I'm still as lost as ever..

 

Hmm..I just re read what I wrote..perhaps I made it sound like the guy was there WITH his ex, but he wasn't. She just also happened to be there..basically all four of us were there with each of our own friends.