Innocent until proven guilty??

[Ian42]

I recently noticed that my wife was using her cell phone a lot more lately and I got suspicious. When I checked her phone records I found that she had been calling and texting a male friend – a lot. In the month of July there were over 300 phone calls and almost 1,000 texts.

 

I confronted her and she did admit that she has been communicating with him “too much” and that she knew that I would be upset at the volume but she denies that anything physical ever happened.

 

She claims that it was all just normal conversations and that she really just liked talking to him about family, kids, exercise, politics, etc. She said that some of the texts did get a little flirty - if they were talking about exercise he would complement her by saying “you don’t need to work out”, “you have a great body”, etc. but nothing overtly sexual.

 

I reviewed her cell phone records and most of the calls and texts were all during weekdays and usually in the morning to later afternoon (all before I got home from work). She is a stay-at-home mom and we have 4 young kids and the phone records show that most of the communication was before the kids got up and going for the day - almost as if she was up early and bored so would text him. As the day got later, the communication slowed considerably (but did not always stop). She has texted him and he texted her with me knowing about it – she would even mention some to me that were “interesting” and I was OK with what I knew – however, I had no idea of the volume.

 

When I showed her the actual number of call and texts she was shocked, she said that she knew it was a lot but had no idea it was that much. She claims she just got carried away and he became the goto person to tell her everyday stories to. Apparently it all started with texts back and forth regarding our kids who are playmates with his kids. Then they just go more frequent, more topics, etc.

 

One of the reasons she said that there was nothing physical is the fact that she is not attracted to him in that way, and frankly I believe her on that point – he is not attractive at all. She also says that one of the best things about our marriage is our sex life; she says she is completely satisfied in that area and is not/was not looking for that. She said that he was interested in her little daily thoughts and stories and that I was not (which I agree with).

 

Based on the phone records, this is all new within the last month and a half and I looked back at our calendar and could not find any times where she would have been anywhere without me or the kids. I do realize that they could have snuck in some alone time….but it just doesn’t seem like that was likely, at least not for long or in a night/drinking/bar environment (which would concern me the most).

 

She has apologized and understands my feelings, she has agreed to all of the conditions I have presented – deactivate her facebook account, give up her cell phone, no more contact with him, etc. She seems surprised that I would think they were physical (almost as if that was the furthest thing from her mind) but she does see my point of view and she does agree that the relationship was inappropriate in its volume and its encompassing nature (basically every day communications).

 

My problem is that even though she denies anything physical, and I am leaning to believe her, there is still a doubt in my mind. On top of that, there is still the emotional affair (“addiction” as she called it) that bothers me too obviously.

 

She is very remorseful, has agreed to my conditions and does not want to lose our marriage.

 

My question is, without proof or an admission to anything physical how do I proceed? Do I assume they were physical and that she is lying or do I assume innocent until proven guilty?

Edited August 17, 2011 by Ian42

[Bryanp]

How do you think affairs begin? This is absolutely classic. By the way how would your wife feel if you were doing the same thing with another woman? She is right now in what is called an emotional affair. Guess where these things eventually lead to?

[analystfromhell]

You can see some of my other posts and those of dozens (or probably closer to thousands) of others here and other places with very similar stories. If you have doubt and it's reasonable then by all means continue to discuss this and seek counseling if both of your are of a mind to.

 

My wife did about the same so I can understand how incredibly difficult it is to build trust after something like this. Your wife can certainly understand how insecure she'd feel if the shoe were on the other foot... One thought, if she gets rid of her cell phone, etc then it also makes it more difficult to determine what she's doing maybe have her keep it with her at all times and have the gps on instead...

 

Good luck...

[NervisPervis]

Does it really matter if it went physical? An affair is an affair. I understand that physical is perceived to be worse, but I could almost understand my wife having a moment of weakness and making a one time mistake. Is developing an emotional bond over a long period of time any better? Carrying on this relationship behind your back? Didi she let you read all of these hundreds of posts? Oh, I see. They were already deleted. How did I know that?

 

Ask yourself: who has she given herself to more over these last 2 months? Did she communicate with you to the tune of 300 phone calls and 1,000 texts. That's 10 calls and over 30 texts PER DAY. I haven't communicated with my wife that much in the past 2 years COMBINED! And if it was so innocent, why was she willing to agree to your terms and give him up so easily? If my wife told me to end an innocent friendship I'd tell her to pound sand. And a long time ago I lost a girlfriend to a guy she wasn't interested in "in that way".

 

And be on alert that you didn't just push it farther underground. NOBODY goes from being that addicted to cold turkey that easily. Start with a key-logger on your computer. Voice activated recorder in the house wouldn't hurt either.

 

Do you people read ANY of these other threads before starting your own?

[Afishwithabike]

A person only has a finite amount of energy to spend on close relationships. All those texts and messages weren't sent to you. It was sent to another man. So who was she spending all her personal energy on?

 

It doesn't matter if he's not attractive. I'm a woman. Trust me on this. If he's feeding her emotional needs then in her eyes, he could be as attractive or even more attractive than you. For women, it's not all about looks. It's about how the other person makes them feel. Women want to be loved, desired, cherished. If he fills those needs then he's plenty attractive enough to her. Don't fool yourself about the lack of a physical affair because he's physically unattractive.

 

It's hard to say if anything physical happened.

 

It's possible he came over while you were away at work or they met somewhere. She is a stay at home mom and there are hours in day where you can't know what she's doing. Put GPS in her car. Get a voice activated recorder. Be more mindful. Come home at unexpected times. I think you may not know the whole story.

 

There's a book called His Needs, Her Needs. Get it. There's also book called More Than a Friend. You might want to read it too.

[Afishwithabike]

Does it really matter if it went physical? An affair is an affair. I understand that physical is perceived to be worse, but I could almost understand my wife having a moment of weakness and making a one time mistake. Is developing an emotional bond over a long period of time any better? Carrying on this relationship behind your back? Didi she let you read all of these hundreds of posts? Oh, I see. They were already deleted. How did I know that?

 

 

Good point. Emotional affairs are bad. People can have sex with a lot of different people without getting feelings involved, but think about it, how often do we fall in love with someone? Deep, emotional connections are rare and therefore even more hurtful than a few random purely about sex affairs.

[reddog63]

Does it really matter if it went physical? An affair is an affair.

 

 

AHHHH............I think the answer is YES.

[linwood]

 

My question is, without proof or an admission to anything physical how do I proceed? Do I assume they were physical and that she is lying or do I assume innocent until proven guilty?

 

You give her the benefit of the doubt.

 

Her reaction seems to be very correct, she even seems surprised at her self.

 

You give her the benefit of the doubt and keep a watchful eye on her.

[dreamingoftigers]

Actually I think she is doing good by her H given the circumstances.

 

I also think that it is pretty sad that he isn't interested in her little daily thoughts etc. Clearly that is an emotional niche that should be filled.

 

Seems pretty clear that others would be interested in her little daily thoughts.

[John Michael Kane]

Actually I think she is doing good by her H given the circumstances.

 

She's not doing any good by her husband by cheating.

 

I also think that it is pretty sad that he isn't interested in her little daily thoughts etc. Clearly that is an emotional niche that should be filled.

 

It's pretty sad that she's cheating on him and talking to another man about things she should only be discussing with her husband. You can't have a good marriage when your spouse is off with someone else. And he's not there to "fill" all of her needs. She's grown enough to do that herself and vice versa.

 

Seems pretty clear that others would be interested in her little daily thoughts.

 

Exactly but they're not just any "little thoughts" are they?

[Woggle]

She is obviously having an affair. Start gathering evidence so you can build a case.

[dreamingoftigers]

I had gathered the impression that this was stopped before it really got rolling.

 

I have a guy friend down south that I talk to semi-frequently but not that much (for sure). But throughout my life and marriage I have had guy friends I could share my thoughts with.

 

When I was younger and in different relationships, some of those would be daily. I had a male roommate for about 6 years. We shared a lot of stuff with each other and there was sure no sexual tension or crap.

 

When H came along, he thought we had a history. I assured him that we didn't. He didn't see an issue with it.

[John Michael Kane]

I recently noticed that my wife was using her cell phone a lot more lately and I got suspicious. When I checked her phone records I found that she had been calling and texting a male friend – a lot. In the month of July there were over 300 phone calls and almost 1,000 texts.

 

I confronted her and she did admit that she has been communicating with him “too much” and that she knew that I would be upset at the volume but she denies that anything physical ever happened.

 

All cheater will lie, hoping you'll get off their backs. If she's been in contact with him for that long, she's cheating and there's no doubt about it.

 

Is that phone she's using been provided by you? Because that's a big ass bill.

 

She claims that it was all just normal conversations and that she really just liked talking to him about family, kids, exercise, politics, etc. She said that some of the texts did get a little flirty - if they were talking about exercise he would complement her by saying “you don’t need to work out”, “you have a great body”, etc. but nothing overtly sexual.

 

She tried to downplay it here. She figured by saying it did get a little flirty in hopes that you'll just wave it off like a fly. She's not supposed to be getting flirty with any man but you. And obviously the man is making a play for her and she's letting him.

 

I reviewed her cell phone records and most of the calls and texts were all during weekdays and usually in the morning to later afternoon (all before I got home from work). She is a stay-at-home mom and we have 4 young kids and the phone records show that most of the communication was before the kids got up and going for the day - almost as if she was up early and bored so would text him.

 

Naw she wasn't bored about anything. If she was she should've came to you. If you were in her position what would be the best time to cake on the phone with someone without others wondering who you were talking to?

 

As the day got later, the communication slowed considerably (but did not always stop). She has texted him and he texted her with me knowing about it – she would even mention some to me that were “interesting” and I was OK with what I knew – however, I had no idea of the volume.

 

Of course it slowed, because of the kids. While she's supposed to be getting them ready or doing whatever with one hand she has that phone in another. That's a classic telltale sign of a cheater. Instead of doing what she's supposed to be doing she's using that time to spend with another man.

 

She's running game on you and she's trying to make it look like it's harmless by showing you a few texts between the two of them. Bet you she's not showing you the ones where they're sexting each other.

 

When I showed her the actual number of call and texts she was shocked, she said that she knew it was a lot but had no idea it was that much. She claims she just got carried away and he became the goto person to tell her everyday stories to. Apparently it all started with texts back and forth regarding our kids who are playmates with his kids. Then they just go more frequent, more topics, etc.

 

Wow, so she and he uses the kids as cover to conduct their affair. Just goes to show she doesn't care about those kids. Same for the loser who's hitting on your wife.

 

One of the reasons she said that there was nothing physical is the fact that she is not attracted to him in that way, and frankly I believe her on that point – he is not attractive at all. She also says that one of the best things about our marriage is our sex life; she says she is completely satisfied in that area and is not/was not looking for that. She said that he was interested in her little daily thoughts and stories and that I was not (which I agree with).

 

Cheaters will cheat with anyone who has a smooth mouth on them. Read some of these stories on here that are similar to your situation.

 

Based on the phone records, this is all new within the last month and a half and I looked back at our calendar and could not find any times where she would have been anywhere without me or the kids. I do realize that they could have snuck in some alone time….but it just doesn’t seem like that was likely, at least not for long or in a night/drinking/bar environment (which would concern me the most).

 

Cheaters are very good a deception and secrecy.

 

She has apologized and understands my feelings, she has agreed to all of the conditions I have presented – deactivate her facebook account, give up her cell phone, no more contact with him, etc. She seems surprised that I would think they were physical (almost as if that was the furthest thing from her mind) but she does see my point of view and she does agree that the relationship was inappropriate in its volume and its encompassing nature (basically every day communications).

 

So basically she knows full well that she's cheating but doesn't care and doesn't and won't stop it.

 

[My problem is that even though she denies anything physical, and I am leaning to believe her, there is still a doubt in my mind. On top of that, there is still the emotional affair (“addiction” as she called it) that bothers me too obviously.

 

Of course there's doubt in your mind. SHE'S CHEATING.

 

She is very remorseful, has agreed to my conditions and does not want to lose our marriage.

 

Dude this isn't over. It is far from it. A few days of cries and apologies won't cut it.

 

My question is, without proof or an admission to anything physical how do I proceed?

 

You use your natural ability to be almost emotionless, pretend that everything is okay, and watch her act a fool again with this guy so you can catch her in the act. Or you can divorce her right now and spare yourself a lot of pain in the near future.

 

Do I assume they were physical and that she is lying or do I assume innocent until proven guilty?

 

It wouldn't be really a farfetched if you did "assume" that she screwed the guy because it's really not far from possibility.

[YellowShark]

In the month of July there were over 300 phone calls and almost 1,000 texts.

 

That works out to 10 calls and 32 texts per day.. just for July. Seems excessive. Just saying.

[jnj express]

What you probably need to do---is moniter her, use the different spyware devices, available to you---to make sure she doesn't go underground

 

Tuff as it may be for the kids---your kids, and his kids are no more----

 

You also might want to make her sign a POST--NUP AGREEMENT, with a DURESS clause

 

You are not gonna trust her, and it may take a long time for any trust to ever come back---but she made her bed, now she has to sleep in it

 

You can't have 1300 contacts in a month, and everyone of them be platonic----How can you just shoot the breeze about nothing 1300 times in a month----what you got was probably the tip of an iceberg

 

If you really wanna know what went on, make her take a poly

 

One thing that does need to happen, she has to find something to do with her time, if she is a SAHM, who has nothing/little to do, she will just get bored, and get into some kind of trouble again----so what she does with her time, is a problem that needs to be addressed!!!!!

[OnyxSnowfall]

You know... she probably just liked the attention. It doesn't seem like it was anything personal to his innate being =p

 

I've been somewhere similar... stringing a long a few admirers when my little ego was in the dumps. Didn't want to be with any one of them. Let them KNOW I didn't want to be with any one of them --- still conversed about things and licked up the attention, nonetheless. But it was all generic.

 

Now, when I am actually emotionally attached to someone... I don't think I can let them go easily. I think you'll be able to tell the difference.

 

It may well be that she's just lacking in attention... the solution is probably to give her more attention... "before" she actually finds someone she gets seriously into. Seriously, we all have needs and for better or worse, other things creep up and seem more appealing at some point whether we want them to or not.

[SidLyon]

If the OM has a wife or partner then you might like to think about letting her know.

 

From the way you describe, it is an emotional affair that may be physical. Maybe the times they're not texting is because they are actually together with their kids as the cover.

[John Michael Kane]

You know... she probably just liked the attention. It doesn't seem like it was anything personal to his innate being =p

 

This is not something "innocent," she's cheating on her husband.

 

I've been somewhere similar... stringing a long a few admirers when my little ego was in the dumps. Didn't want to be with any one of them. Let them KNOW I didn't want to be with any one of them --- still conversed about things and licked up the attention, nonetheless. But it was all generic.

If you were "stringing a long" a few "admirers" then that's not something generic.

 

Now, when I am actually emotionally attached to someone... I don't think I can let them go easily. I think you'll be able to tell the difference.

This woman is cheating. Nothing about "generic discussions."

 

It may well be that she's just lacking in attention...

She's not "lacking in attention" when she's getting it from someone else. That's not her husband's responsibility to pay attention to her 24/7.

 

the solution is probably to give her more attention... "before" she actually finds someone she gets seriously into.

And to even suggest this while this woman is currently being unfaithful to her husband is respectfully counterproductive.

 

Giving someone attention will not stop a cheater from cheating nor will it prevent an affair. If he were to do what you suggested, that would be literally praising his wife for cheating on him and excusing her affair completely.

 

Seriously, we all have needs and for better or worse, other things creep up and seem more appealing at some point whether we want them to or not.

No these affairs don't just "creep up," they're initiated by individuals.

[reboot]

It's all well and good to put her under lock and key, but unless you two do something drastic to improve your marriage, you're going to find yourself right back in the same place sooner or later. Read some good marriage books together. Get some marriage counseling. Have date nights. Maybe you could be the one that texts and calls her during her long, boring days? She's looking for attention, and someone will give it to her if not you.

 

Now I'm not at all trying to excuse her or what she's done. And I'm not saying the actions you've taken, or the actions other posters have recommended, are wrong. All I'm saying is, if you're just going to be the Warden of the prison, a divorce would probably be more productive.

[Ian42]

I am by no means taking this lightly and I know there are serious problems that we have to work through even if it is “just” an emotional affair. However, it does change things significantly if there was a physical affair too – that will add a whole new level to the lying a deceit (both prior to me finding out and now that it is out in the open).

 

We have talked for hours since this was discovered, I have talked to his wife too and we are turning over every stone possible. I even asked our kids (ages 9-5) if they have seen the other kids lately and they have all said no and his wife has questioned her kids with the same response. So, I don’t think the kids were used as an excuse to get together.

 

I have access to her phone records online and there have been no calls or texts since I confronted her. I also told her that I am getting access to the content of her text messages (which I really can’t get) and told her that if I find anything in those messages that she has not previously told me about then there is no way I can stay in the marriage.

 

Because of this, she has told me about many of the messages, what was flirty and what the context of the messages were. Even with the threat of me getting the text records, she is still saying that things were not sexual and that when I read the messages I will see that.

 

She has not been defensive or argumentative, she admits that what she did was wrong and inappropriate and that she now realizes how out of hand it got, she knew it was a lot, but says she had no idea how much. She said that she is fine with not communicating with him anymore and that our kids cannot be friends anymore (which wasn’t a close relationship anyway).

 

Last night she said that basically she really enjoyed talking to him as a friend and admitted that it was nice to get complements here and there. She still maintains that there was no sexual intent on her side and that even the thought of it is unbelievable to her as she is not attracted to him at all.

 

All that being said, I do understand that she could be lying about everything - that is the problem, not knowing.

 

Based on what I have found, what she has said and what the other wife has said it does seem plausible that it was “just” an emotional affair.

 

Without proof of a physical relationship do I move forward dealing with what I know or do I treat it like the worst case scenario?

 

Do I “punish” her for what could have happened with their relationship?

 

Again, this is not saying that there aren’t going to be a lot of issues to deal with the emotional affair side of this as is.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Ian42

[John Michael Kane]

It's all well and good to put her under lock and key, but unless you two do something drastic to improve your marriage, you're going to find yourself right back in the same place sooner or later. Read some good marriage books together. Get some marriage counseling. Have date nights. Maybe you could be the one that texts and calls her during her long, boring days? She's looking for attention, and someone will give it to her if not you.

 

With cheating going on that won't happen. That's not his responsibility to boss her around like a little girl. She knows what she's doing.

[John Michael Kane]

I am by no means taking this lightly and I know there are serious problems that we have to work through even if it is “just” an emotional affair. However, it does change things significantly if there was a physical affair too – that will add a whole new level to the lying a deceit (both prior to me finding out and now that it is out in the open).

 

We have talked for hours since this was discovered, I have talked to his wife too and we are turning over every stone possible. I even asked our kids (ages 9-5) if they have seen the other kids lately and they have all said no and his wife has questioned her kids with the same response. So, I don’t think the kids were used as an excuse to get together.

 

I have access to her phone records online and there have been no calls or texts since I confronted her. I also told her that I am getting access to the content of her text messages (which I really can’t get) and told her that if I find anything in those messages that she has not previously told me about then there is no way I can stay in the marriage.

 

Because of this, she has told me about many of the messages, what was flirty and what the context of the messages were. Even with the threat of me getting the text records, she is still saying that things were not sexual and that when I read the messages I will see that.

 

She has not been defensive or argumentative, she admits that what she did was wrong and inappropriate and that she now realizes how out of hand it got, she knew it was a lot, but says she had no idea how much. She said that she is fine with not communicating with him anymore and that our kids cannot be friends anymore (which wasn’t a close relationship anyway).

 

Last night she said that basically she really enjoyed talking to him as a friend and admitted that it was nice to get complements here and there. She still maintains that there was no sexual intent on her side and that even the thought of it is unbelievable to her as she is not attracted to him at all.

 

All that being said, I do understand that she could be lying about everything - that is the problem, not knowing.

 

Based on what I have found, what she has said and what the other wife has said it does seem plausible that it was “just” an emotional affair.

 

Without proof of a physical relationship do I move forward dealing with what I know or do I treat it like the worst case scenario?

 

Do I “punish” her for what could have happened with their relationship?

 

Again, this is not saying that there aren’t going to be a lot of issues to deal with the emotional affair side of this as is.

 

She's trying to hide it. Get to the bottom of it then employ the necessary consequence.

[NervisPervis]

You might just have to go with the polygraph. Just 2 questions. Depending on the answer to the first, you may not even need the second.

 

1 - Did you ever make-out with him?

2 - Did you have sex with him?

 

You need closure. She may be telling the truth, but if she did cheat, the admission rate is near zero for cheaters. "Sorry honey, but with those odds, I need you to take this test". Just the threat of a test may give you more to go on.

 

1300 contacts in a single month....You need closure. It can't be swept under the rug. She needs to know that.

[reboot]

With cheating going on that won't happen. That's not his responsibility to boss her around like a little girl. She knows what she's doing.

 

What in the world does this have to do with what you quoted from me? I never said anything remotely resembling your statement.

[John Michael Kane]

What in the world does this have to do with what you quoted from me? I never said anything remotely resembling your statement.

 

You said he needs to take responsibility for her affair. He doesn't. She's the one who needs to own it.