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how can I win her back?


c0nfuzd

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been married for 10 years and have 2 kids; W wants a divorce because of the emotional abuse I have put her through over the years coupled with my negativity and drug use

 

I got the D wake-up call a little over 4 months ago and immediately saw the light and started making the necessary changes to improve our relationship...all the while the W telling me it's too late

 

I stopped the drugs and immediately started seeing where I went wrong; so much so that I cry daily when I think at what I put her through over the last 10 years; I am now more involved with the kids and the house, present a more positive attitude in all that I do and have stopped swearing around W and kids

 

in other words I did a 180 on my life....because I don't want to lose my family and my marriage; I can't see myself alone and starting over at this age; I want to do everything possible to make this work for us and the kids

 

what more can I do? we don't have arguments anymore and the atmosphere in the house is 100 times better

 

is there hope even though she clearly shows me that there is none? I started even praying but feel somewhat hypocritical in doing so since I was never a religious person; I just hit rock-bottom and I didn't know where or to whom else to turn to

 

I would like to think that I messed up and deserve a last chance; how can I make her understand this before she serves me with papers?

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I should mention I have never tried to change my ways before; I honestly did not see the extent and depth of my verbal/drug abuse; this is my first attempt at being a "new" me

 

and I believe it is real; she has mentioned that she sees the changes but doesn't know how long they will last

 

obviously some peeps can give verbal abusers a second chance; how does one rationalize giving a second chance?

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ShatteredReality

It's going to take time to prove to her that your changes are real. I can honestly say that even now - nearly three years after I almost left my H - when we fight badly I worry about that other guy he used to be coming back. So she hasn't filed yet? Do you still live at home with her?

 

I am more than happy to share my story with you - it sounds like your situation is very similar to what mine was....I put up with verbal abuse, neglect and substance abuse from him for years before reaching my breaking point. He swears even now that he didn't know how badly he was hurting me, how detrimental the situation was....he says he couldn't at the time grasp what it was like to be me in our situation. I made plenty of mistakes in our relationship too...especially once I checked out of it...but ultimately we found a way to make it work.

 

He did what he could to make me fall in love with him again. I suppose he figured he had done it once, he could do it again. We have children, so I already had a built in incentive to make things work - but I wasn't willing to do it if we weren't going to be happy with the decision to reconcile.

 

So I would say start there. She needs to see you control your anger when you get upset, too. In a situation where you would normally lose it. I am not saying fabricate something - let it happen naturally - because it will, but she needs to see proof. And she will need to see it over and over for a long time. You may have made these changes seemingly overnight...but we hear so often about an abusive man making these changes and then reverting back to how he used to be - sometimes after years of good behavior. Not that women aren't capable of the same atrocities, but I am going from the angle of you're the man and she's the woman :)

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yes I still live at home, although it feels like I don't; I sleep in the basement as she has kicked me out of our bedroom; there is absolutely 0 intimacy and no hugging/kissing/holding hands, etc. The only touch is when I touch her gently on the arm or on the back as I pass her by. I do it on purpose to show her a more gentle side of me. I would say we are more like roomates. She still talks to me daily when she comes home from work about the kids and her day. We are still able to talk without disrespecting each other. As a matter of fact, we have not argued in over a month. I've decided not to bring up our problems and just focus on the present. She seems to be ok with it as she doesn't try to instigate anything herself.

 

I recently had a surgery and because of it, I believe, am still not served....yet. I also believe the pain I was in prior to the surgery played its part in my psychological instability. Going to work and dealing with every day activities became overbearing. The pain did not help and neither did my doctor who simply dismissed the pain for the past 10 years. Even before the surgery happened, it had been 3 months since she broke the news and she still had not made a move. We had some awful arguments in those 3 months whereby I accused her of not being around for the kids (as she travels quite often because of her job), not being a good wife to me, always running away from me to her parents. In reality, it was me who hadn't been there for the family because of the drugs I was doing. Although I was physically there, emotionally I was not. And after much careful analysis and with her insight, I realized it was all because of me that she was doing what she was doing. She said she has not been in love with me for years, and that she only got the courage 4 months ago to tell it like it is. I knew there was something wrong for some time but didn't realize it was that deep. So I kept asking her what is wrong, until she finally blew up. And boy did she blow up. She went from saying that she wasn't sure what the next step was initially, to a week later saying she is convinced that divorce is the next step. Because I failed to see what was wrong with my emotional abuse. Again, now I understand clearly what I did wrong. Although I claimed to love her so much, my words and actions did not reflect it. My drug abuse (weed, LSD, ecstacy, mushrooms; no cocaine or heroin) did much to make me a lazy and useless husband and affected me psychologically. She did it all (taking care of the kids and the house), while I lounged around and disrespected her. The only thing I was able to hold down was my job, even though I was unhappy about it and let her know every chance I got. I even told her many times that I wanted a divorce, that I was only a paycheck to her. For me at the time, it was the lack of sex. She is very beautiful and very desirable. And not getting it infuriated me. So I tried to show it in the worst of ways. Calling her names (not many times but I certainly did it more than once) and not listening to any of her requests certainly added fuel to the fire.

 

I had anger management issues where I would fly into fits of rage and couldn't control myself unless I smoked a joint. I used to yell not only at her but at the babies too. I just couldn't handle taking care of them while she was doing what seemed to be nothing for me.

 

The reason I've been able to make these changes overnight is quite simple to me. I gave up instantaneously 15 years of daily smoking weed and weekly ingestions of the other drugs. And what an impact it has had on me. It was like wearing sunglasses all this time and then suddenly removing them. It all became clear and in focus. If there is one thing that I won't be going back to, is drugs. They screwed my life. I guess that is why they are illegal lol. I thought I knew it all and that she knew nothing about anything. Now I see how little I know and how smart she is in the art of life.

 

What I am afraid of is that she won't give me the time to show her that these changes are permanent. I look back and am astonished at my behavior then. How could I treat another human being that way? And the babies too? Honestly, I am ashamed and if it wasn't for the kids, I would have walked out on my own. That is why I don't blame her if she follows thru with divorce. I deserve everything that may be coming to me. But I grew up with no father so I know how messed up I am. And throughout it all, I always said I did not want my kids to grow up without a father around. That is why I never left no matter how bad the relationship got.

 

She says that we can still be the best of parents even though we would be apart. That my fatherly duties would not be impacted by my departure. She does not understand how a divorce would affect the kids. It's odd to me that she wants out, yet I am the one that has to leave.

 

We discussed how we would separate one night, and I told her about the 50% split of assets according to the law. She was so infuriated by this and said that I was trying to hurt the kids and making her start from scratch (even though she makes twice as much as me). It is then that I decided that she could have it all and that I would not sign any papers unless she took 100% of the assets. No way would I want to hurt the kids financially or her. I have caused too much pain and I think it is the least I could do for them. I want her to know that the marriage is more important to me than any of the moneys we have. All she could say is that we could split the joint account (which is peanuts compared to our assets). I was a little disappointed that she could only offer me this much considering I paid the mortgage and more than my share of bills in the 10 years of marriage. Everyone I talk to tells me to take 50% if divorce happens but there is no way to change my mind on this. I want her to know that money means nothing to me. I would trade my left leg and arm for her to take me back. I've been down before and I will get back up again.

 

I have apologized several times but it came out wrong by the end of it. So now I shut up and just try to show her thru my actions. Been sober the entire time (she can smell weed from a mile away so she knows I am clean lol). I have taken care of every single task she asks me to do from assembling desks, to keeping the house clean, to painting the balcony, mowing the lawn, etc etc. I have done more in the past 4 months than I did in the entire 10 years. I want to show her badly I am for real. Time I have lots of. Patience is what I lack. It's hard to not be near her and to know that it could all be over tomorrow if she wanted it. She keeps me at arms length from all family events and she rarely is in the same room as me. I guess it's the NC at work. I do give her as much space as she wants although we still share the same bathroom, even the same towel to dry our hair. All the pictures of us in the house are still in the same place. The kids are older now and are aware of the situation. They cried when she told them of our impending separation 4 months ago. Sometimes they will ask her if Daddy can stay and not leave. She always tells them no. It's like she doesn't care what they feel. She is doing her best to show me that this marriage is over by not giving me hope. During this recovery period, she only called from work the first day I was home to see how I was doing. She has never called since. Sometimes she will say to me how heartless and cold she must seem to me. I have to lie and tell her no. I just think that deep down she is really hurt and wants to show me what she went thru.

 

I don't know at this point if I still have a chance. Even though I have done a 180, I don't think it's enough for her. Remains to be seen if she can serve me the papers when my recovery is complete. I am looking at another 6 months to a year for total recovery but as little as 3 months to be able to work, drive, and do most daily activities. I definitely did not see the whole impact of my verbal abuse on her, and that is because of my drug abuse. Everything revolved on getting the next fix, and all the things she asked of me simply got in the way of me getting high. Since I've been sober, I am dying to do more and more. I just can't sit still anymore. I just want to help with everything and anything. And now that I am in recovery mode, she has to do it all...again. And that makes me feel useless because she can do it all. I feel that she will conclude that she will be fine without me and go ahead and file.

 

How did you conclude that you could give your hubby another chance? What did he say to convince you? Was it as simple as "give me another chance"? Because I have tried that. I even begged and cried but that only seemed to distance her even more. Instead I decided to change my looks by taking care of myself more (shaving every 2nd day instead of once a week, brushing my teeth before bedtime and in the morning, dressing up even when at home, getting a shorter haircut that I know she likes, in other words being well groomed). Yet I see no real tangible changes from her. Can I still believe there is hope? Is there anything more I can do? Can I turn her around from being "indifferent" to caring? I took counseling too and that also helped. She doesn't want to go for MC (mind you that was 4 months ago when I asked her). She seemed so angry then, but over time I see her as more relaxed. Is this a good sign?

Edited by c0nfuzd
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couple of months ago she told me that calling her a c*nt and a b*tch was extremely hurtful....my reply at that moment and not thinking before I spoke was "If you're gonna throw away this marriage because of 2 words, then there isn't much hope here"

 

I regret this dearly as I did not see the additional damage I was inflicting on her; fast-forward to now, how can I fix this? is there a point to bring this up again?

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couple of months ago she told me that calling her a c*nt and a b*tch was extremely hurtful....my reply at that moment and not thinking before I spoke was "If you're gonna throw away this marriage because of 2 words, then there isn't much hope here"

 

My husband called me the c word once. I told him that if I EVER heard that come out of his mouth again, he would never see me OR our daughter again. Ever.

 

There is only one way you have a chance with this. You must know by now that women suffer in silence for years, then start losing the love, and THEN tell their husband they're done. Almost every time. It's just how females work.

 

That makes this really hard for you. She really doesn't trust your 'change' to be real. Frankly, I don't either. I think that, once you realize she really IS going to move out and take the kids (or send you packing), that you will head straight back to your drugs.

 

The only thing you can do to dissuade her of this is for you to show her over a LONG period that you're well and truly done with it all. I'm talking months, probably years. Expect to live in the basement if she doesn't kick you out, or expect to live in your own apartment for the next couple years, at least. Expect to be only as close as she lets you. Expect to have to continue to be a great dad, very involved, NOT going out for other women (and don't you dare use your 'needs' as a reason), and not reverting to your old ways. Expect to offer to go to marriage counseling and doing the work if she agrees; if she won't go, find your own counselor and go anyway - let her see the changes you make, even if it's only in passing as you exchange kids.

 

She may still love you but has closed off her heart to protect herself. She may truly NOT love you any more; it happens. But if she really is the sole thing you want in life, consider the next two years your 'consequence' for your last ten years. It's your penance. It's your homework. I would expect you to get nothing in return for at LEAST six months, if not longer. But, if you are consistent, and real, she may start softening up to you.

 

If you're not willing to do that hard work, then just walk away now.

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thank you turnera....I needed to hear this; I truly want this to work out and willing to do the work required; definitely not going back to drugs, with or without her; I see how my life has been turned upside down because of them; not only my marriage has suffered, but my mental and body health along with money are also factors in keeping me away from ever using again; I was caught in an addiction and now that I am out, I can't see myself reverting back; I am smarter than that

 

if she does let me stay in the basement, she can see first-hand that these changes are real; I believe anyone can change if they have the right motivations to do so; in my case, it's my family, the strongest motivator of all; never would I leave them unless she makes me; I am more than determined to stay on the right path

 

we went to the doctor today to get a prescription for me and on the way there I brought up my illicit drug use and how it affected my judgment and actions for the past years; I told her that there is no way I am going back to them and I told her I have realized my mistakes and will not be ever repeating them; she was silent; it's hard to know what she is thinking; she could reiterate that there is no hope, that it's over but she didn't; although, last week when we went to the doctor and he asked if we were ok, she bluntly said: "No, no we are not ok; just trying to get thru this (ie. surgery)."

 

I have done some counseling already and that has helped me a lot personally. I did 4 sessions and the counselor said that the only added benefit from going any further would be to persuade me in getting past the pain of the impending divorce. He otherwise did not see what else he could do for me. But I don't want to get past the pain of divorce. I can't see myself divorced. When and if I do get divorced, I would seek his help again.

 

I tried going for drug counseling but they would not accept me because they have bigger priority cases at the moment. They said if I ended up using again, then they would consider me. I never intend to go back.

 

I have offered MC but she doesn't want it. Says she told me many times before to go for personal counseling but that I said I didn't need it. I will ask her once more when and if she files.

Edited by c0nfuzd
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You can be proactive in the counseling area. Get the book His Needs Her Needs, and start reading it. If she will let you, read passages of it to her. Show her that you are learning from it where you went wrong. I imagine - if she is not 100% done - that what she needs most from you is to hear and see you making changes in yourself. Learning. Growing. That's a great first book to read. Once you read it, they have questionnaires you can fill out. You may try to get her to fill them out with you - so you can know 'where you went wrong.' That's a great step if she'll do it. If she won't, try to fill them out FOR her and show her what you came up with. Maybe she'll bite and step in and start interacting on it.

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You can be proactive in the counseling area. Get the book His Needs Her Needs, and start reading it. If she will let you, read passages of it to her. Show her that you are learning from it where you went wrong. I imagine - if she is not 100% done - that what she needs most from you is to hear and see you making changes in yourself. Learning. Growing. That's a great first book to read. Once you read it, they have questionnaires you can fill out. You may try to get her to fill them out with you - so you can know 'where you went wrong.' That's a great step if she'll do it. If she won't, try to fill them out FOR her and show her what you came up with. Maybe she'll bite and step in and start interacting on it.

 

let me see if I can download this book off the Interne for free; you see, I have no personal money; all the money I make I put in our joint account; I have been doing so for the past 10 years; I have nothing saved; that is why I wanted 50% if she filed; but then she tried to make me feel guilty by saying I am trying to hurt the kids in taking half the assets, so I decided I would not take a penny; I have never cheated her in any way financially or romantically; I have never taken advantage of her financial status; my only mistakes were my drug/verbal abuse

 

worse-case scenario I will have to ask her to buy it for me; and I am not sure what her reaction will be

 

keep you posted

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Just go to the library. In fact, take your kids. Let her see you taking them to the library - great for them AND for you.

 

hmm, can't seem to find it online so I will ask her to drive me (since I can't because of surgery) this weekend....thanks for this idea

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she just called to tell me about how her sister is upset at her; so it's nice to see that she still wants to share with me what is going on from her side

 

still hoping :)

 

on a side note, I will be the first to admit I never knew how marriages work and the work that needs to be put in; I never considered her needs and as a result neglected her all these years; I was very selfish but now see that the only way I can achieve happiness is by making her happy; I am growing up albeit slowly

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we did have "marriage classes" before the wedding but I can't even remember what was said in those 2 sessions....was prolly high at the time

 

what a failure I am....no one to blame but myself; even if I reconstruct myself, which I will mark my words, I feel that she is done with me

 

the only way I can get one last chance is if she can bring herself to do it for the kids' sake....and I have tried conveying this to her to no avail; I will try again on my way out

 

I don't know why it is that some feel an addict can never recover; there are countless stories out there about successes; am I necessarily doomed to fail? one thing I have noticed since stopping usage of drugs is my ability to look at things more positively; whereas everything was bleak, I am now filled with a more positive outlook overall; I still have my moments of doubt filled with pessimism but overall my outlook has shifted drastically for the better...and I like that

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No, you're not hopeless. The only caveat I have is that, if there were a reason you went to drugs, a psychological reason - hiding from trouble, etc. - if you have trouble again, will you seek out a similar escape? If so, you do need therapy to get to why you went there in the first place.

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I had a bad childhood; a young mother who was never around and placed me in an orphanage for the first 4 years of my life, then bounced around from one set of grandparents to the other; I only started living with her when I was 12 and by the time I was 17, I left home; my mom abused me physically and verbally during those 5 years; as soon as I left home, it wasn't long before I discovered drugs; I had been sheltered for so long and I yearned to break out; not having guidance at that point in life (never met my father) had its consequences I feel

 

I resented my mother for years after and did not even invite her to our wedding; I hated her so much for the hurt and pain she inflicted on me during my childhood; so much so, that I never knew what it was like to love my mother; so I kept her at bay for decades

 

it is only recently and with the help of a counselor that I was able to reconnect with her; I tried to explain my side of things in that my mother had never apologized for anything she did; as a matter of fact, she tried to tell me several times that my memory was fuzzy and that the sequence of events was incorrect; in other words, I created my pain; the counselor told me that some people will never admit to their mistakes nor apologize because that is how they are; their heritage and the way they were brought up further solidified their stance; that is how they are and there is nothing I can do to change that; but in order for me to move on from that world of pain, I would have to forgive her and accept her the way she is; it was as simple as that and overnight I reconnected with my mother; I made the choice in my mind to move on, not to let fester this hatred I harbored for decades; to have peace in me I had to do this; and so I forgave her; we now talk daily for a few minutes, sometimes a half hour

 

and I am grateful that I was able to move on; I feel so much quieter inside; the only uneasiness at this point in my life is my marriage but even this is slowly giving way to peace; I realize I can only control my actions and not those of my wife; in a way, although she may close some doors for me, others will open

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You may not want to hear this, but you need to find a new IC. Two visits, to go over 20 years of neglect, abandonment, and abuse - you don't just get over that. You don't just say 'I forgive you' and become a whole man again. You just don't. Find a better IC and start going.

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it was actually 4 visits but I get your point...I cried my head off recalling the past and if I didn't feel peaceful inside now I would seek out more help; it was decades that I abandoned her; my mother tried to maintain contact the entire time but I chose not to; and btw, pls do not censor yourself; I like that you come out and say it like it is

 

I am old enough to understand that to move on you have to accept things the way they were and that they cannot be changed; of course I abbreviated what the IC said but the message he conveyed was so well articulated that it made sense instantaneously; it was the perspective he spun on it; and he is actually one of the best IC's in the city I live in (he was even featured on the front page of the biggest newspaper in this city of 3 million people so he is not just anybody; his credentials are long and his work a testament to his field; I didn't just go for any IC but did some research prior to)

 

I just want peace and quiet in my head and I strongly believe I have achieved a degree of it; for years, although I thought I enjoyed my drug use, I knew something was bothering me; I always felt empty inside and uneasy; but as soon as the drugs were put down and peace restored with my mother, for the first time in my life I felt quieter inside; all the psychological noise subsided; everyone around me says there is something different about me lately

 

still, oddly enough I was thinking just yesterday if another visit to the IC couldn't help anymore; just to see if I had left any stone unturned; I know I am not perfect and that there are still ways to improve myself; every day I stay away from my mistakes is a positive step to me and a reinforcement that I am committed and devoted to my new ideology; my daily prayers have helped immensely in keeping me on the right track; never thought religion could be so powerful

 

talking to my sister-in-law and she was telling me how her husband was healed from a 1-visit to the IC for his problems; that he was never the same man since; so I still believe that with the right words said at the right time, you can gain a whole lot of knowledge than with a myriad of visits at the wrong time in your life; I think I was ready and the timing was right

 

but like I said, every day brings me more peace even with my marriage and its possible outcome; I think that my wife has made incredible changes in me, brought out a new man, yet she may not reap her own success if she walks away; let's not even quantify what the kids stand to lose if I leave; I have never had any goals in life, but now I do....I aim to show that I can be the best role-model to my kids and an excellent partner whether it be to my wife or someone else (who knows?); I know I cannot live my life alone...I want to love and to be loved

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ShatteredReality

Hey - so I had yesterday off and took an internet holiday while I was at it. So I hope I'm not jumping in too late by now!

 

In my situation my husband had guilt on his side. I had stepped outside of the marriage and had an affair. I was already planning to leave, but I wound up in a relationship beforehand. The guilt was overwhelming, I broke things off and told my H. I also told him that I was leaving him at that time - that I would be looking for another job to make sure I could stay away from OM (I wasn't leaving him for OM by any means - that relationship had no future). That was my husbands wake up call. That was when he sat down and realized that the state I was in emotionally was partially his responsibility. He spent a lot of time on the Marriagebuilders.com webside, bought some books...started doing a lot of research. He begged me for a second chance...I relented but he took some oxycodone and got drunk one night and on the way to the video store he ripped into me in front of the kids who were in the backseat. The names were awful...I was driving...it was all I could do not to pull over, grab the kids and bolt....and then once I got to the video store he stood outside the door watching me to make sure none of the guys in there talked to me for more than a minute. He was uncontrollably jealous and possessive - wanted complete control over my every move...I was suffocating. I told him no more - I called my mom and asked her to take my kids (they had just moved to another state and she had offered to help, knowing we were having problems). My parents house was next door and furnished but they were gone, so I started to stay over there a lot. Finally he asked me to come stay home. He told me he knew all of the ways he'd gone wrong. He begged me to forgive him. I told him it wasn't forgiving him that was the problem - it was trusting that I could give him my heart again. He said he felt the same way - I had hurt him beyond words and he didn't know how to handle it. He apologized, saying he handled it wrong and could we start over from here? Could I not use his past against him and him not use mine against me - that we could talk about it and acknowledge it...we could heal from it as both individuals and as a couple...we did some MC and then IC. He began taking much needed depression meds and I took some stuff for my anxiety for a little while...it took a long time Confused...it was such a difficult road. There were arguments where I worried he was going to throw things or call me names again...I missed my kids but felt they shouldn't be around for this...I visited them once a month for four months before finally picking them up and bringing them home. We did Skype sessions and phone calls...

 

My H and I married at 19 - and I knew it was stupid to marry that young and with no life experience, being his first gf and everything...but I loved him....So during the months my kids were away he courted me again. I came home and he would cook me dinner, bring me a latte if he went out for something and I was going to be home. He brought me lunch at work if I forgot my food and he texted me hearts and I love you's all the time. it was two months before I decided to give it an honest try. Before that I was on the fence the entire time, wouldn't make promises...I was even looking into apartments.

 

He would send me funny pictures to make me laugh during the day...if I had a rough day and I needed to vent he didn't take it personally - instead he encouraged me to just let it out and say whatever I needed to say about whoever I needed to say it about.

 

He became an entirely different husband. Now, over time some of that has changed...reverted. He doesn't help with the housework quite as enthusiastically - though he does help more than he used to. Sometimes when we fight I can see he's trying not to say things because he knows now the results if he does. Every now and again he'll let one or two things slip out...but then I crawl into my shell for like a month...I can't help it...I love him - I love who he is without that temper and without those drugs...I cannot be with that man again. He knows it.

 

I do for him what I'd expect from him had he cheated on me - I make sure he knows where I am and who I am with all the time. If I can't use my phone I try to make sure he knows why. He has access to all of my accts except for this one. I try not to spring things on him too much - spontaneous girls night with girls he doesn't know from work? Yeah - I don't do that. These are freedoms I have willingly given up, though - not forced. I think it's fair so it's what I do.

 

Our marriage isn't perfect by any means...but it's so much better now than it ever was before. It's been nearly three years, though, and I still worry he'll change back - and it scares me like you would not believe.

 

Your wife will need time...time....time....She will have resentments against you that you cannot understand, not having been with someone like you for so long. You have to let her have those without letting her abuse you with them. She may not choose to stay with you, but - she might. If you keep being the best part of you...showing her that you've changed. And when something bad happens you have to react the right way. You can be upset...but you cannot go run to drugs or abuse to handle it. You had surgery right? Well I am guessing the pain meds you're on are opiates - vicodin or percocet or something of the like. Well I hate to tell ya - but those are drugs with mood enhancers and they're addictive. So...once the pain stops, the pills need to also. Half the problem with the drug thing is knowing the happy moods and good treatment potentially aren't real. You have a long road ahead...

 

If you cannot get her back then you need to also make sure you're set up to properly take care of your kids. You may not need 50/50 but you do need to make sure you can afford to live. That's not selfish, that's good parenting.

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hi Shattered, glad to read you again :)

 

well, I can certainly relate to some of your H's actions; acting out in front of the kids and yelling and calling my W names; that I did enough of, luckily the kids were just babies at the time and have no recollection of it whatsoever; in fact, they barely recall my rages since I haven't had many in front of them for the past year or so (as soon as their crying started to fade so did my yelling strangely enough); I have told the W many a times that for some weird reason a crying baby just annoys the hell out of me and pushes me to the edge; remove the crying and I am a very normal person; the crying just brings out the Mr. Hyde in me....never understood why but you should have heard me in the middle of the night when the babies were crying; I would swear and yell up and down; even my neighbor admitted he could hear me; I know how difficult it must have been for my wife not only to take care of the babies while she was recovering from c-section but also to please me by calming down the babies quickly so that I would stop my yelling and cursing

 

it was so bad that one night I called one of my babies a little b*tch...I regret it to this day and have a hard time getting over it; I was so cruel in my ways but I could not help myself at the time; I still cry over it when I think about it but then again there are so many incidents that I cry over; it's like I haven't forgiven myself, so how I can expect her to forgive me

 

she did ask me to get IC but I declined every time saying there was nothing wrong with me; looking back I wish I had taken her up on it then

 

as for the surgery, yes I am on meds now; I am on hydromorphone which I am supposed to take 6 pills of daily but have reduced them to 3 (all taken just before bedtime so that I can sleep because the pain is still there); somehow I can manage it during daytime and I am sure it's because I am couch-ridden

 

as for my W's actions, I don't think she's ever had a PA, but not so sure of EA; she has had an intimate kiss with her boss 12 years ago, and to this day they still work together. She was honest with me at the time and immediately told me about it. Because it was early on I decided to forgive and moved on. Yet, after all these years I still wonder if there isn't an EA going on; she denied it as recently as yesterday when I brought up to her attention what an EA is (she didn't even know such a term existed); I just see how close they are and the fact that this man has come over to our house when I am not around; but I give her the benefit of the doubt because after 15 years together I know that I can trust her; she would not string me along in this marriage if she had an affair, be it EA or PA; so this tidbit of her and him has been gnawing at me and makes me wonder even now how much of an impact it is on our current situation

 

but when I look at what I did, my actions and words over the years, I cannot even blame her if she did have an EA or PA; I know that it's because of my mistakes that she would have done this; so I would forgive her for it in a blink of an eye; see, I can only speculate on what she may have done but what I did, there is no doubt it was wrong...and this is what I want to make clear to her that I want to fix; my love for her has not wilted (although it may have looked that way in the past), if anything it has grown even stronger once I sobered up. She is an amazing woman for having put up with my bs

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ShatteredReality

Confused - I think it's huge that you now see what your past actions were more clearly.

 

About the current meds (before I forget) I didn't mean stop taking them prematurely - that's not healthy either. They calm your body internally and allow it to heal properly. I just meant not to let yourself become dependent on them. You're on some heavy painkillers - but they give you those for a reason post surgery. After my c-section they had given me oxycontin. For the first five days, while in the hospital, they fed them to me at regular intervals. I didn't even have to think. When I went home they sent me with about 20 or 30 more pills, telling me to taper off over the next 5 days. I figured I'd taper sooner - I like a clear head and I felt foggy all the time. My first night home I didn't take any in the middle of the night like they had cautioned me to. When I woke up the following morning I could barely move, I broke out into a sweat just trying to get up from bed to make it to the kitchen where my pills were. My H was at work, so he couldn't help me, and my mil was there, but she was in the living room with my then 2yo, so she had no clue the shape I was in until I was in the kitchen gasping for air and trying desperately to reach up into the cupboard I had put the pills in the night before. I tapered off of them in 3 days, not 5, but I gained a huge appreciation for their purpose during that time. So...don't kill yourself in this self improvement process and take unnecessary risks - ok?

 

Onward - the EA PA thing. I didn't know there was such a thing as an EA until after my PA when my H found this site and read some things off about it to me. I think an EA is extremely easy to fall into for those who aren't watching out for it. I also think if it's brief and not very serious it's really not worth throwing a marriage away over. An EA can be bad enough to destroy a marriage - but typically it's a big huge warning sign that there are problems in the marriage that need attention now - before it turns into a PA. I don't make excuses for the things that I did - my actions are mine and I own them. I will carry them with me forever - but I've chosen to learn from them and not let them define who I am, but rather to see them as something I did. My H shares blame in the emotional state I was in - but not the actions I took.

 

So that is where we concentrate the fix in our marriage. He works on the wrongs he is responsible for, and I concentrate on the ones I am responsible for.

 

In your situation here you can only concentrate on what you've done at this point. She has made mistakes over the years too, but yours overshadow hers for now. I am speaking from her chair right now - or at least as close to it as I can get not actually knowing her. Right now she's angry with herself for putting up with it for so long - she's angry that you would dare make these changes only now - after you've lost her. In her mind staying may not be an option - this is because of all the fear behind that option. Staying could mean that you'll be nice for awhile...then slowly revert back to your old ways and then, years from now, she'll look back on this time as the opportunity she passed up. Falling back in love with you isn't impossible - but it'd be a painful and lengthy process which would require a boat load of patience on your part. She needs to know that she's not just a conquest...that you're not doing this just to get her back or just for her. You can prove these things with time only I am afraid. These changes you've made need to be for you...because you can no longer live with that guy anymore. Have you ever heard of Fireproof your Marriage? I have heard it's a good book/movie with some good techniques on helping fix marital problems. I haven't watched/read it myself, though...by the time I'd heard of it we were in the next stages of our reconciliation and the "getting it back" part was past.

 

As for the kids - my kids are 10 and 8 now, so they were fairly young when all of the big things happened...when I speak with my 10yo he does remember his father calling me names, he remembers waking up to us in the other room - him screaming at me...but he doesn't remember it very clearly or the specifics that were said. Both the kids are happy, though...and he shows them he loves them much better now than he did in the past. He's learned to apologize to them when he's in the wrong...so he does still make mistakes, overreact and send them to their rooms rashly or something - but if I reason with him or he realizes his mistake he calls them out and talks to them about it. Worlds better than before.

 

Something else that made me choose to stay...it was our passion. I have seen so many other couples lose this over time.

 

I think you're making very good strides. I know it's difficult...but with time, patience, perseverance...even if you cannot get your marriage back right now or ever - you can at least ensure a good relationship with the mother of your children down the line and that if you do ever have to move on the next woman you see (should be awhile before you're ready for that) will get a man who treats her right...

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Confused - I think it's huge that you now see what your past actions were more clearly.

 

About the current meds (before I forget) I didn't mean stop taking them prematurely - that's not healthy either. They calm your body internally and allow it to heal properly. I just meant not to let yourself become dependent on them. You're on some heavy painkillers - but they give you those for a reason post surgery. After my c-section they had given me oxycontin. For the first five days, while in the hospital, they fed them to me at regular intervals. I didn't even have to think. When I went home they sent me with about 20 or 30 more pills, telling me to taper off over the next 5 days. I figured I'd taper sooner - I like a clear head and I felt foggy all the time. My first night home I didn't take any in the middle of the night like they had cautioned me to. When I woke up the following morning I could barely move, I broke out into a sweat just trying to get up from bed to make it to the kitchen where my pills were. My H was at work, so he couldn't help me, and my mil was there, but she was in the living room with my then 2yo, so she had no clue the shape I was in until I was in the kitchen gasping for air and trying desperately to reach up into the cupboard I had put the pills in the night before. I tapered off of them in 3 days, not 5, but I gained a huge appreciation for their purpose during that time. So...don't kill yourself in this self improvement process and take unnecessary risks - ok?

 

Onward - the EA PA thing. I didn't know there was such a thing as an EA until after my PA when my H found this site and read some things off about it to me. I think an EA is extremely easy to fall into for those who aren't watching out for it. I also think if it's brief and not very serious it's really not worth throwing a marriage away over. An EA can be bad enough to destroy a marriage - but typically it's a big huge warning sign that there are problems in the marriage that need attention now - before it turns into a PA. I don't make excuses for the things that I did - my actions are mine and I own them. I will carry them with me forever - but I've chosen to learn from them and not let them define who I am, but rather to see them as something I did. My H shares blame in the emotional state I was in - but not the actions I took.

 

So that is where we concentrate the fix in our marriage. He works on the wrongs he is responsible for, and I concentrate on the ones I am responsible for.

 

In your situation here you can only concentrate on what you've done at this point. She has made mistakes over the years too, but yours overshadow hers for now. I am speaking from her chair right now - or at least as close to it as I can get not actually knowing her. Right now she's angry with herself for putting up with it for so long - she's angry that you would dare make these changes only now - after you've lost her. In her mind staying may not be an option - this is because of all the fear behind that option. Staying could mean that you'll be nice for awhile...then slowly revert back to your old ways and then, years from now, she'll look back on this time as the opportunity she passed up. Falling back in love with you isn't impossible - but it'd be a painful and lengthy process which would require a boat load of patience on your part. She needs to know that she's not just a conquest...that you're not doing this just to get her back or just for her. You can prove these things with time only I am afraid. These changes you've made need to be for you...because you can no longer live with that guy anymore. Have you ever heard of Fireproof your Marriage? I have heard it's a good book/movie with some good techniques on helping fix marital problems. I haven't watched/read it myself, though...by the time I'd heard of it we were in the next stages of our reconciliation and the "getting it back" part was past.

 

As for the kids - my kids are 10 and 8 now, so they were fairly young when all of the big things happened...when I speak with my 10yo he does remember his father calling me names, he remembers waking up to us in the other room - him screaming at me...but he doesn't remember it very clearly or the specifics that were said. Both the kids are happy, though...and he shows them he loves them much better now than he did in the past. He's learned to apologize to them when he's in the wrong...so he does still make mistakes, overreact and send them to their rooms rashly or something - but if I reason with him or he realizes his mistake he calls them out and talks to them about it. Worlds better than before.

 

Something else that made me choose to stay...it was our passion. I have seen so many other couples lose this over time.

 

I think you're making very good strides. I know it's difficult...but with time, patience, perseverance...even if you cannot get your marriage back right now or ever - you can at least ensure a good relationship with the mother of your children down the line and that if you do ever have to move on the next woman you see (should be awhile before you're ready for that) will get a man who treats her right...

 

definitely not rushing with the meds; I listen to my body but I just don't want to start another addiction; told the doc about my self-medicating schedule and he is ok with it

 

I have seen Fireproof; that's a flick with Kirk Cameron and it's a great one; it is the movie that turned me to religion; I cried when I watched it because it hit home on many levels; I also copied it to her laptop along with many other movies in the hope that she watches it one day; I don't know if she has watched it yet; the movie describes a 40-day plan on winning his wife's affection back; there is a clear difference in my plan in that she won't allow me to do absolutely anything for her; but I keep doing small things like buying her a latte on the weekends or buying her flowers

 

our 10-year anniv took place couple of months ago (in the middle of all this sadly) and I asked to take her out to a restaurant; her reply I will never forget: "No, I don't want to go. I don't want to be reminded of our wedding day." That hurt like a Hiroshima bomb. I tried to get her to change her mind but the more I tried the more vexed she got. And in the end, I did nothing. Not even flowers that day. I was so depressed that day and still think about it as possibly a turning and defining point if I were to lose this marriage. Oddly enough, that night we spoke for about 30 minutes softly and without any anger or finger-pointing. The talk was not about our marriage but about everything else around us. So in a way, I thought we could still click.

 

Yesterday, I became convinced that she is not having an EA. We talked about it and she explained to me how she is not only friends with this current boss, but how she is friends with her ex-bosses as well whom are males as well as females. It's in her nature and she attracts people with her infectious smile. She has the brawns and the physical appeal that would make just about anyone befriend her. And it is only because I do not possess these qualities that I don't have such relationships with any of my bosses. So just because I haven't had these experiences, it does not invalidate hers. I apologized for it and made her clearly understand that I saw my error in judgment here. Going forward, I will no longer question her on this. The only reason I ever did is because she did have a sentimental kiss with her now-boss but that was way before our wedding. And she did come clean about it right away at the time. For the sake of our kids and marriage I will leave this behind and never look back on it. There is just no positive outcome on it. What was interesting however was that she was willing to break up her friendship with her boss so as not to do anything wrong. I thought this is weird since she supposedly has checked out of this relationship. Why would it be important for her not to do anything wrong at the stage we are in? Maybe she still sees us working this out. In addition, last night she also came down to the family room where I was all aone since the kids were playing upstairs, and we just talked. Talked about various things but never on our situation. It's nice to see that we can still talk.

 

I have made it a promise to myself that no matter what the outcome is here, I will always try to be her best friend....now and forever. I have done too much wrong to her to try to be anything other than a friend. This can only be good for the kids as well as for us being civil to one another. One thing that I have learned since casting aside drugs, is to let go of hatred. It has consumed me for the past 15 years to the point that I hated everything in this world. I saw my entire life as just a waste. To the point that I was just living day to day for no reason, if only to pass time. Now, I love and I love life. Every day is a blessing to me. I don't have time for hatred anymore. Wasted feeling if you ask me. Tis so much better to love and be happy inside. And maybe that just shows on me as I don't get upset anymore with her or the kids. Sure I may raise my voice when the kids act up, but no more cussing and no more yelling and no more feeling like I hate them. They are everything to me. I guess you could say I saw the light.

 

Today is not over but another great day. Now they are coming home and looking forward to spending some quality time with them since her parents are out of town, which means they are staying home this weekend and not deserting me like every other weekend.

 

And the battle goes on.

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I had a similar thing happen to me when a previous b/f. He was emotionally and verbally abusive.

 

The words he said to me still ring in my head. "stupid f'ing bitch". I knew at that moment that he had crossed a line that I would never forgive him for and that I would leave. I started planning that day and I did leave.

 

I told him later that the turning point was when he said those words to me and like you he tried to say oh it's was just words. If he had NEVER done anything else to me that was abusive, it was still too late. Those words were uttered and NO ONE is going to talk like that to me.

 

Maybe you can't fix it, maybe that was her line of I've had enough and I'm done point.

 

 

I hear you so clearly on this. It was so many years ago I can't even remember when I said them. But obviously she does. I can only hope that our 15-year relationship can withstand these words and the fact that we have built a family in this time. I let my actions speak now. I could never ever repeat these words again.

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ShatteredReality

Sounds like you've found your in. Talk to her and get her to like you again...continue to click with her but don't discuss your marriage or your current situation. Get to know eachother again like it's new - she'll be responsive without the pressure of committing that she's staying and it could just happen naturally - before she realizes it you'll be starting a new relationship. Not celebrating the anniversary isn't as terrible as you may think...the wedding anniversary is a pretty emotional celebration for woman a lot of the time - if we're not in love with you we may not want to remember so vividly when we were. We look at that girl as stupid and silly and sacrificing good sense and practicality for love only to be trampled on later. Besides...out with the old you and out with the old miserable marriage. You're starting over from this point forward. Become her friend, confidant, lover...all over again. If you can.

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Sounds like you've found your in. Talk to her and get her to like you again...continue to click with her but don't discuss your marriage or your current situation. Get to know eachother again like it's new - she'll be responsive without the pressure of committing that she's staying and it could just happen naturally - before she realizes it you'll be starting a new relationship. Not celebrating the anniversary isn't as terrible as you may think...the wedding anniversary is a pretty emotional celebration for woman a lot of the time - if we're not in love with you we may not want to remember so vividly when we were. We look at that girl as stupid and silly and sacrificing good sense and practicality for love only to be trampled on later. Besides...out with the old you and out with the old miserable marriage. You're starting over from this point forward. Become her friend, confidant, lover...all over again. If you can.

 

I like your thinking...it's definitely my new philosophy. She once said "why are you trying to save this marriage?" and I replied because it is worthwhile. But now as time has passed I realize I don't want to save the marriage. Because there was not much good in it. Instead, I want to turn over a new leaf and create new memories, void of hatred and negativity, and drugs. I would want her to look at this as a new beginning. I believe in my heart it is possible. If only she can let go of the past. I am not sure she can do that on her own without some IC.

 

She is so busy with her work that she puts little time into fixing herself, let alone this marriage. She has acknowledged her need to go for IC but hasn't made a step in that direction that I am aware of. Perhaps she is doing it and not telling me about it so who knows? Seeing her more relaxed towards me does point to some improvement but am not clear if it's her way of moving on or if some professional help is involved.

 

Let's see how tonight goes.

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