for jerryinva and about 'giving space'

[InLimbo2]

I've been lurking and reading for a while - everyone wonders if giving someone their freedom and space can bring them back to you. Nobody can guarantee it, but it CAN work. I posted a week or two ago - about my boyfriend and me. Once my anger passed and I looked at MY behavior as well as his - and read some books - and read some online - my whole attitude changed - and so did our relationship.

 

As much as I wanted to throw myself down and profess my love for him and beg him for a return to how we used to be - I didn't; and I’m glad – because nothing would have changed about us, he would have just given in – and we’d repeat this over and over until there was no love left. We talked some, I told him I recognize now his need for freedom - that what he did was wrong and how I reacted was wrong. He admitted to some wrong and that he hadn't known himself well enough to see what he was doing. I’ve told him that the keys to a good relationship are friendship, respect, and passion. We have friendship and passion for sure. I wasn’t respecting his need for freedom; he wasn’t respecting my need for relationship security. Because we couldn’t at that point. I know you read the book from Blasé Harris – read what it says about loving 100%. How could I profess to love my guy if I couldn’t let him be him – the him he needs to be right now. Your posts all talk about YOUR needs – your need to get your best friend back, your need to have her in your life, your need to talk to her and text her. You are making the fatal mistake I have made many times in the past – look at HER needs and wants, love her 100%.

 

Know what I did? I knew he still cared about me. I told him to have his freedom. We agreed to casually date, date others, do our own thing, date others - be best friends still, date each other, and see what happened. He knows he can’t have me around as a convenience – he knows he has to treat me well as a person – he knows we can’t be ‘static’, that the relationship needs to keep growing - he knows that he’s risking me meeting someone else that is ready for a serious commitment and he could lose me. I came to the sudden realization that I did not need to solve this TODAY - that it was highly unlikely – given his unsettled state – that he’d meet some woman of his dreams today, tomorrow, next week or month – that would make him want to stop seeing me. That made me realize that I had time – to let our relationship grow and see what it was.

 

Friday night we got together spur of the moment – both of us knew we had dates with others on Saturday night, and planned to be together today (Sunday). I felt a bit awkward being there at first – he went out of his way to make me comfortable. I wondered if he’d thrown out my stuff when I dumped him – my toothbrush was still in the holder on the sink, my razor still in the shower. He and I made love with such intensity on Friday night – it was better than it’s ever been – the emotional connection was incredible. We each went our separate ways on Saturday night – the details are not important of what we each did with our dates. What I do know is that he’d been asking around about who I was seeing Saturday night – I did not ask who he was seeing. What I do know is that when I got home at 3:45 he’d been home 30 minutes and was waiting to see what time I got home – and put up an away msg as soon as I signed on. What I do know is that he was extremely affectionate and loving when we met up today for brunch. What I do know is that he asked repeatedly throughout today small things about my date last night – and I gave short accurate answers that left no room for more discussion.. What I do know is that when we made love today, we had some difficulties. Both of our minds went into overdrive with imagination – we each wondered if the other had been intimate with our dates last night. So, I told him he’d kept bringing up my date – was there something he wanted to know. His eyes told me the answer I already knew – I told him I had not slept with my date, he told me he hadn’t slept with his either. I told him that was the root of my bedroom difficulties today – and that when we took a break I cleared my head and reaffirmed for myself that what happens between he and other women has nothing to do with me or us – I don’t need to know anything about “the competition”. He admitted that his imagination of me with another kept him a bit distant. We talked about adjusting to this new status – of us dating others – and knowing it. And for the first time, he admitted that he is having difficulty with it too – and of knowing I am out with other men and that he has jealousy. We went to the mall and did some errands, we went to the movies, we went back to his place and snuggled and got close before I had to go home. Open honest communication kept this whole afternoon with acceptance and no drama or accusations - from being a huge misunderstanding and one that would have put distance between us – perhaps a permanent wedge. We confronted an issue, we discussed it, we cleared the air and any misconceptions – and we were closer than ever.

 

What do I know tonight? I know that he cares about me. I know that his feelings for me run very deep. I know that he needs at least the psychological feeling of freedom. I know for a fact that he’s not leaving my life today, tomorrow, or for the foreseeable future. I know that there will always be younger, prettier, smarter women than me – but I also know that he knows I am the one that is really there for him, as a friend and a lover – and has been since the day we met – that I am the one that doesn’t walk away as soon as a problem comes up – and I know because I know him, just how much value that holds for him. I know that I am the one that allows him the freedom to be him – good and bad – warts and all – and that I accept him for who he is at this very moment. I know that right now I love him 100% - and he knows it too – by my actions. He knows that I love him enough to want him to be happy – and right now some freedom feeds that need in him. And what I know is that he and I will continue seeing one another and exploring each other and finding out if what he have will last a lifetime – by setting him free, I’ve gained the time to let the relationship succeed or fail on it’s own merits – not some rule or boundary or line in the sand. Tonight I have as much relationship security as we can have for now. Had I pressured him, created a rule or boundary to keep him “mine” – he’d have withdrawn more and what we have would have been extinguished right then. He opens to me more every day – we discuss important things that will help us decide if this is the person we want to wake up to every morning. He sleeps tonight knowing that although he can’t take me or my love for him for granted, that he is loved – truly loved. This weekend, I respected his need for freedom – and he respected my need for relationship security ---- to the extent that these two particular people can at this very moment.

 

Will I turn into the person I used to be when a relationship went downhill (I used to be you jerryinva)? No I won’t. I won’t spend hours agonizing over what he’s saying, what he’s doing, every breath he takes, every fart in the wind. I will live my life, do what I want, make positive changes in my life, learn and grow as a person every day, keep my options open and keep myself busy with living life, I will enjoy every moment that I am with him because it is enjoyable, and I will allow the relationship to change as it progresses. And if it doesn’t work? Then we acted like mature caring loving friends and gave it our best chance – and we don’t lose our best friends in some stupid petty argument or demand.

 

I see your posts – you can’t LIVE this advice at this point – so, fake it for now. In time, it will become reality. Stop and look at yourself (no this isn’t a cut), you are so desperate to be with her that it occupies every second of your day and night. I have been there, I have done that. I have learned and grown and stopped to look at ME – you need to do that. You cannot be a whole loving partner to this woman with who you are right now. Stop right now and take a deep breath – and admit to yourself that you are over the edge about this (we have all been there!). Figure out what is wrong with you – and start working to make it right – to make you a whole wonderful caring loving attractive stable secure-in-yourself partner – because she won’t even consider coming back until you do. And if she doesn’t come back? Then you have earned some battle scars and learned a few things and you have an improved you to offer to your next partner.

 

If you feel you must – send her a very short (key word is short) message – preferable hand written. Do not pour your heart out, do not profess your undying love or how this is killing you. Tell her that you have thought a lot and read a lot and you are going to step back and look at yourself for awhile, and that you will be working on making yourself the best person you can be – for yourself. Tell her that you love her and that you love her enough to give her what she needs right now – time and space apart from you. Tell her that if and when she is ready to talk to you, please fee free to contact you. And leave it at that. Then LIVE – for you.

 

I wish you luck – I can’t guarantee it will work, there are no guarantees in life – but you will begin to feel better. There are many books sold, and many wise and love-battle weary people that post all over the net regarding this – and all advice is always the same – set her free if you have any hope of holding her heart in your hand again - and that many people can’t be wrong, now can they?

[sid3]

That was a powerful post,some wisdom many here can benefit by. Until you let go of hope, you are only making yourself suffer (as I have done to myself)

Hope has been my crutch for too long, better to face reality and deal with it at the moment than to prolong it. Nobody knows what the future holds. People change their feelings all the time, for better and for the worse. I've been miserable for the last 4.5 months after being dumped. I've gotten some really good advice from this forum. Yes there is still alot of pain. I would like to reconcile, but who knows, if it were to happen, I may be at a place in my life where I wouldn't want to. I believe in fate, but not that it is predetermined, rather it is in flux, ever changing by our actions. I will survive this and so will you, and we'll be better people for having done so.

[Blah Toolz]

So let us say that I have been broken up with my ex for a little over 2 months now... and I decided to let her have her freedom. I stopped calling her for a few weeks and just recently, she has started calling me again. Late at night, usually...

 

She brings up past experiences... says she called me on the "first day we ever had sex," and says that she didn't like the fact that we had stopped talking. How should I deal with this? Do I avoid meeting her in person, or do I meet up with her and instead try to create some positive experiences between us?

 

For example... is it you that initiates contact, or vice-versa? Or both? I have been meeting new people, and enjoying some of my new-found freedom, but I would hate to lose her from my life completely. She seems to be showing a bit of regret perhaps... from what I can tell. She called me a day ago to see if I would go to her little brother's baseball game with her. Do I keep giving her time alone without calling her, or what?

[WindDrifter]

InLimbo2 Thank You so much!

 

My girlfriend and I have just broke up. Through another post I was able to better understand why she is doing. Through your awesome post I am able to understand how to deal with it better and be a better person. I think you are so right. I hope this works I really do but as you say if it doesn't I have only improved myself.

 

Thank You.

 

On a side note I don't know if we will date each other while dating others but it would be a good way to stay connected.

 

Thanks again I am going to recommend this post to most break ups or need time people.

 

Cheers,

WD

[Just Visiting]

This is a really good post. My break up is going on 4 months now, with barely any communication which has bummed me out once in awhile. There were some issues and lessons to be learned from that relationship. For my part, I see where I needed to improve and have a better understanding of myself. I still care for my ex very much and do think of reconciliation. At the same time, my ex wanted the "break" and so I feel that if he wants to try again, it is up to him to make the first move.

 

I have heard of the book by Blase Harris and think I will look it up. I am always open to healing and learning more about myself.

[CaliGuy]

Great post. Those in the throws of suffocating their S/O should read this over and over. Have some respect for yourself and if you truly love them, set them free. Allow them to be them and accept them for who they are.

 

Any attempt at manipulating or changing them will only result in disappointment.

 

PS: Blase Harris' book is for those who didn't love their lovers. If you've been a clingy person this book with do you no good. You're better off reading "Love Must Be Tough."

[InLimbo2]

Sorry – this is really really long. How incredibly weird and strange it is for this post to pop up again! Man - talk about timing - omen? I have kept up with reading these boards - but haven't posted much. This post popped up in the list and I started reading without looking at who posted and kept thinking to myself - man - this could be me writing this - and it was! That post was from May 2004 - almost two years ago.

 

Me and the guy in question - Ed - did get back together...and were on and off rocky for about two years total. We'd split and get back together in no time - we couldn't stand to be apart - and neither of us could stand the thought of the other with someone else. He would really really flip when I was with another man – Italian macho pride. We were never really apart more than a few days at a time. Neither of us were very healthy emotionally - wish I'd bookmarked this and read it many times over the intervening time – cuz I did suffocate him out of my insecurity many times – although there was good reason for my insecurity. I've done wrong, he's done wrong - life has just thrown curves. I've continued to read - and we went into counseling a few times - and I stayed in for ME and he refused to ever go again.

 

He basically wanted to do this same thing again now - almost 2 years later - keep a hook in me with being "friends" until he gets himself straight and figures out who and what he wants. He doesn’t' believe in ever shutting the door because we could end up together in the long run - after he gets his **** together – can’t count how many times he’s said that to me in the last 2 years – keeps talking bout being right people, wrong time. I do understand his need for freedom - I met him 4 months out of a marriage that ended badly....but....2 years of loves me/loves me not and push/pull....took a huge toll on me and us – and we’ve both hurt each other badly.

 

I've gotten healthier - because I worked at it ---- he still has never done what the counselor told him he needed to do - be alone for awhile - he always just rushes out to distract himself with the 'flavor of the month'. He says he just needs to do it ‘his way’ – which is denial and distraction – he himself admits he needs whackin with a “clue x 4” before he ‘gets it’ most times. He did hit rock bottom last month - the new chick he'd been emotionally cheating on me with kicked him to the curb and he was distraught over why this keeps happening - he actually cried in my arms - first time ever. I was there for him - I didn't turn my back on him - and we talked around things so as not to put pressure on him and let him find himself with me being just his friend. So what happens? He did exactly what I told him would make me go away forever - he stabbed me in the back as soon as this chick wagged her finger at him. No good deed goes unpunished. And he had the gall to blame me! He doesn't think I should ever leave him, for any reason. He lost his best friend - again - for some HO (and she truly is a HO) that lasted a few weekends....now he's moved on to another chick, and there will be another and another and another - I don't know that he'll ever stop and stand still and work on him - and that's sad and I feel bad for him. The counselor said just the other night that he’s doomed to keep having the same failed relationships over and over until he does the work. Some of the guys that know him are pattin him on the back as a playa to his face - and goin home and tellin their wives they are so glad to have someone every night that truly loves them and is there for them to come home to. One of the women was gonna intro him to a nice gal she knows - but she said after watchin how he treated me and how he runs through women she considers him a snake and won't intro any friends to him.

 

His wife walked out when he needed her most....I know that took a toll he's not even truly aware of....when he'd get right down to raw emotion his greatest fear was he'd fall for me totally despite his attempts to hold back - and I'd leave him like his wife did and crush him – and he couldn’t take that again. He once said to me – why does every woman I love leave me – he hasn’t gotten that it’s because he pushes us away or neglects us until it’s too late. Human nature is a weird thing - my ex did this to me (was abandoned as a child) and my daughter did it (after her father turned his back on her) - it's like they push and push and do so many bad things just to be totally *sure* you will never leave them - creating a self-fulfilling prophesy if they don’t stop in time – cuz there IS a limit if you have any self respect. That’s how he always hooked me into coming back…I’d feel guilty – cuz I’d done exactly what he feared most – until a whole lotta people pointed out that he’s creating the scenario that makes it impossible for me to stay – and that he is emotionally manipulating me.

 

So – I have instituted “no contact” a number of times – and failed at it – and that’s ok – it’s been a process – and one I’ve gotten better at. I always failed cuz I made it a line in the sand instead of a process – once I accepted that and did what felt good and right to me – and was aware of the price I paid – it works better each time. And it’s hard because our paths do cross with the riding club we both belong to and on some motorcycle boards. And he just doesn’t get why I want to shut the door and not be friends – I think he does understand deep down – but just holds to that because he doesn’t *want* me out of his life. The last time we actually talked about things he looked at me and said “I don’t want to lose you completely”. Before, every time I tried to get with a guy on any level – it didn’t work – cuz he wasn’t Ed – even just casual sex. I *finally* had a very successful and satisfying sexual experience with this guy – and not Ed – tho it’s definitely not the same level as me and Ed – but maybe it could be if I let it grow and develop and maybe find the same level of sexual and emotional and chemistry connection as I have with Ed – but I’m not sure that is possible.

 

A few days ago he helped me pick up my new motorcycle – and we had a great time, lil stilted but all in all great time like old times – and the attraction was still there. But – it’s still just friends (or FWB) for him – and that doesn’t work for me. Not to mention that I really do not like him much right now – he’s not exhibited the qualities I value in a friend much in last few months. We have two of the three ingredients – passion and friendship – but I have lost a great deal of respect for him – on many levels. I do know – and counselor who knows him agrees – there’s a good man in there somewhere still.

 

My dilemma is this – I (as my counselor said) am finally seeing him for who he truly is – good, bad, and ugly – and tho my vision is clear and I see his faults – I still love him. And I’m a lot more emotionally healthy than I was –that was evident to both of us before we split this last time – and getting better all the time. There is a guy I’ve known for years – and every time Ed and I have split, he’s made his move – I would never give him a chance – cuz I was still in love. He’s a great guy and loves me – really loves me. But I’ve jerked him around like Ed has jerked me around to a degree (tho I was much more honest about things because I know myself better and am healthier) – and these last 2 months have been really chaotic – with me letting Ed turn to me when he hit rock bottom etc and suck me in and keep the connection going and the hope alive. This time the guy (we’ll call him Doctor X) has put his foot down – like I did with Ed. He will give me a little bit of time to make a decision, but then he expects me either to put up or shut up – make a commitment to him or cut it off and let him try to get over me. He wants to marry me – and although I am seriously seriously not sure I ever wanna do legal marriage again – I do want a committed relationship. Right now I’m taking it very very slow and this guy is giving me space to make up my mind. So – what do I do? I still truly am in love with Ed…but we all know you can’t pine over a lost love for eternity and die old alone. And once I make a commitment to this other man – he and I both know – that will be it – the door will be shut forever to Ed. *sigh* Love sure is hard. Any words of wisdom or advice from you all? Should I shut the door on Ed and move on and hope my love for him fades? Someone give me some way to find the strength to do that - cuz although I’ve gotten closer- can’t quite get there. Or – do I live my life but keep some hope and wait indefinitely for a man that may never get his **** together – or may get it together and choose someone else?

[riobikini]

Dear InLimbo,

 

The question is, -are you willing to wait around another two (or more) years to see if Ed changes?

 

You are right about there being no guarantees, -but there ARE people out there who have the decency to respect the commitments they've made to someone else.

 

But so far, Ed has not made any commitments to you.

 

His mouth is moving to form words but his body is (and has been) shared with everyone, including you, -even overlapping in sexual relationships.

 

Great sex is just that, -great sex, but sex is NOT love.

 

He's simply co-dependent on you.

 

You allow him more than just reasonable freedom, -you have perpetuated his irresponsible actions regarding important relationships.

 

You have been more than 'nice' about it.

 

So nice, in fact, that, yes, he'll always be in the picture if you allow it, -whenever he needs to run to you.

 

But he'll never grow up and have a real relationship until (you pegged it!), -he faces his own monsters and truly deals with them.

 

Give someone else more deserving a try.

 

You sound like too nice a girl to waste your life with Ed's nonsense.

 

Take care.

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio