Need s! Especially Women/Chinese Women

[directx]

The title should read 'Need Opinions!'

 

I would love opinions on this, especially from women. Nothing here has been embellished or exaggerated in any way in order to get accurate responses.

I am married and so is she. We were both married when we met at work and both have children. She is originally from China and six years my senior. (I'm American). We always had a typical friendly work relationship and the most we ever did during our 8 months there was carpool to a meeting.

The company moved operations so we never each other again, just an occaisional email throughout the year about what jobs we have found or where we were currently working. This lasted about 6 months and then we never talked for over 2 years.

We met for lunch, she was late, I was annoyed, but we still had a nice lunch but very bland conversation. She let it slip her husband wasn't the greatest (mind you its hard to understand her through the accent). I didn't persue it (it wasn't my business and I found it uncomfortable) but I wish I did. I think she saw me as a friend and was trying to tell me, but again the language barrier makes things difficult.

After that (still awake?) about two more years go by and she leaves a message at my house on the answering machine seeing how I am and how we should get together. I never hid the friendship from my wife, but it was a little awkward because I was just as surprised as my wife was.

We met out for lunch and she gave me a hug (which i wasn't prepared for), gave me a gift for our new baby, and the friendship started again. Our conversations at this point are very neutral and, to be honest, weird. They are very neutral, uninteresting, and filled with requests of repeating what each other said. At this point its all about work, studying in our field, and where we currently work. Never about family or friends or spouses.

 

We went for lunch again and this time I go for the hug on first meeting and she is now awkward with it (moments like these I am reminded how women never make any sense). Now I feel like a masher, but we move on and have another boring lunch. (mind you, I am not complaining they are boring, its just that they are and I don't mind. She is very nice and its nice to have lunch with a friend.)

 

Is she pretty or attractive? Well, neither her or I are models, but she is attractive and is in shape. To me, a woman's attitude is more than half of being attractive, so yes she is.

 

Anyway, we go out to lunch a few more times, and after beating the work conversations to death, I decide to learn more about her. Right now, her parents are living with her along with her family, and she basically runs around and does all the errands and plays taxi during all her free time. Her parents help out, but she has listen to their criticisms and sometimes stand up for herself and just finds more of an exhaustive effort.

 

I started telling her she need to find time for herself and it was important she reward herself from time to time. I started sending her self-motivation sayings via email to start her week.

 

We started going out after work for drinks and appetizers at a restaurant instead of lunch because it was easier to leave work early than have long lunches. We would spend maybe 2.5 to 3 hours talking with maybe two drinks for each of us.

 

She found it necessary to get me a card for the Chinese New Year and get me a red bracelet for Chinese good luck. (coincendently, our Chinese symbols are compatabile). She gave me a really nice card (unsigned) and bracelet (the rubber band types).

I never give her anything and she insists on paying (I insist on paying my half).

 

She definlty doesn't have a good relationship with her husband. She was telling me how she went to a friends house from work for dinner. Only she went.

 

We had a couple more happy hours and traded more lengthy emails (nothing even remotely romantic, just thank you's between us and neutral stuff going on in our lives).

My birthday came up and we had our after work get together. I was actually able to get out of work early so we started at 3:30 and stayed there till 7. The instisted on getting me anything I wanted and snuck a b-day cake in there. The bill was over $50. I instisted on splitting, but convinced her to at least let me pay the tip.

 

I wrote a very long and lengthy thank you to her. I was really touched by all the time she spent with me and the money. It was long and maybe I embarrassed her, I don't know.

 

After that, she only emailed once a week, Friday, usually to a response to an email I wrote Monday.

 

I am dying to know what she is really thinking.

Is it nothing more than a friendship in her eyes?

Is this something woman normally do with male friends? Maybe it is.

 

Anyway, I had the genius idea to send her an email that was basically like all the ones, except I put in nonchalently on how I was having lunch with a new woman at work (like we were) and even mentioned that we should try out this new place the woman & I went. (I didn't flaunt it in her face. I just basically said i have been going out to lunch with the new girl a few times like we have been doing - and this is in one of many paragraphs).

I did this just to see if I could get a reaction.

I would think it either be

A) She doesn't care because why should she? We are just friends, right?

B) She would be jealous

C) She would be crushed/hurt

 

Well, I sent this email last Monday and haven't got a response yet. It will be two weeks this Friday, which is unheard of for the past year. She may just be busy.

 

Is it a culture thing?

Anybody have any thoughts? I'm dying to know. I've never been so confused by a woman, especially a married one.

[consternation]

Aren't you married with a new baby? I don't understand why you have pursued this. You mention your wife, in your long detailed post, I think only once...

 

It all sounds totally boring with this woman. I'm sure others will make similar comments... but I just don't understand why you dont invest this energy into your wife and child?? You don't seem to be wondering why you even care about the chinese woman.

 

If this is some kind of weird exotic/cultural journey thing you have going on, go see a foreign film.

[directx]

You said 'I don't understand why you have pursued this'. Persuing what? She is a friend. Sorry if that wasn't made clear. All I asked was for some type of analysis of her actions so I can understand her better.

 

You said 'It all sounds totally boring with this woman'. Well, so WHAT?! She is a nice person and a friend. I apologize that it doesn't entertain you.

 

You said 'but I just don't understand why you dont invest this energy into your wife and child?? ' She is a friend and former co-worker. And how much 'energy' do you think I am spending? We are talking a couple of emails a week and at most a monthly 2 1/2 hour visit. Is this ALOT of energy? No.

 

You said 'You don't seem to be wondering why you even care about the chinese woman.' Why do I have to wonder if I care? Do you walk around wondering why you care about your friends?

 

You said 'If this is some kind of weird exotic/cultural journey thing you have going on, go see a foreign film.' The only reason I mentioned her ethnicity was hopefully someone would be familiar with the culture. Maybe this behavior is common in Chinese culture? I DO NOT KNOW! That was the purpose of this post in hopes of some insight.

 

Sorry I don't see her as a 'weird cultural journey' where I need to see a 'foreign film' for some reason. I see her as a person. I don't care what she is. Is seeing a film your solution when others are culturally different from you? What was the purpose of saying this. This last statement you made is judgemental, racist, and ignorant all in one sentence. Congratulations!

 

I was hoping a little more from this forum. I posted it for some insight, instead I get accused of 'persuing' something, taking time away from my family, told I shouldn't care about boring friends, the fact that she is a different race than mine equates I have a cultural obsession.

I should have read the other posts before posting.

[blind_otter]

Asian people can be hard to read. I'm half asian, half american. My Mom is asian. I still have problems getting her to understand the normal types of interactions people have over here and how different they are from her culture of origin. I can't imagine an asian woman being unfaithful to her husband, even if she was unhappy, but there are always exceptions to the rule.

 

IMO she takes a step back whenever she feels that either you and she crosses the line into "inappropriate interaction" but it also seems that maybe she does have a soft spot for you because you offer her the close emotional interactions that she perhaps lacks with her husband. So maybe she is torn.

 

I really hate it when white women think that white men only hang around asian women because they have a cultural obsession. WTF ever happened to relating to other people on the basis of their humanity and shared interests? I think they're just jealous.

[directx]

Thanks blind_otter. It's good to know someone else finds asian women confusing. I recognize the cultural differences. I don't think she is trying to be unfaithful anymore than I am. We both have children and both have problems in our marriage, and we both feel alone. However, that is not the purpose of the posting. I was just to try to make sense of some of her actions.

 

Why is it only she can give gifts and show affection (affection only went as far as a friendly hug, and thats the extent of contact), but when I try to equal the balance, she finds it awkward. And believe me, I'm not groping for any goods! Its as neutral as can be!

 

Why does she extremely busy with her family, but always has a few hours for us once a month? Nobody ever calls her while we are out either. My wife calls me. (She knows exactly where I am. There is absolutely no deception. I tell her days in advance, what we ate, drank, etc. But nothing told in confidence (which hasn't been anything I don't think)).

 

Something changed after that long 4 hour outing. I mean, even after we were going home (when I though she would be sick of talking), we continued to talk another 30 minutes by the car.

 

I would like to know just how she feels just to see if everything is ok. But i would hate to ruin the friendship by her thinking i was getting the wrong idea.

 

I wish there was some magic way to word something to her to find out what she is thinking other than 'Hey! Do you have feelings for me?' (because you know what? I want to know)

 

Oh well. I'll restart emailing her next week if she doesn't email tomorrow.

I know this isn't the most exciting posting.

[blind_otter]

Why is it only she can give gifts and show affection (affection only went as far as a friendly hug, and thats the extent of contact), but when I try to equal the balance, she finds it awkward. And believe me, I'm not groping for any goods! Its as neutral as can be!

 

HAH! You tell me. My mother never celebrates her birthday, nor does she accept gifts from anyone. I used to try to buy her things. Once I got her a handbag for her birthday. She stopped by my house and I tried to give it to her and when she left she snuck into my garage and left it on my washing machine.

 

Why does she extremely busy with her family, but always has a few hours for us once a month? Nobody ever calls her while we are out either. My wife calls me. (She knows exactly where I am. There is absolutely no deception. I tell her days in advance, what we ate, drank, etc. But nothing told in confidence (which hasn't been anything I don't think)).

 

I don't really know. Does she have a cell? Maybe she rigidly schedules her time? Maybe she is the caretaker and calls all the shots?

 

I would like to know just how she feels just to see if everything is ok. But i would hate to ruin the friendship by her thinking i was getting the wrong idea.

 

Then be direct. Just tell her, that you are concerned she might get the wrong idea but that you really value your friendship and connection. I would guess you provide a great outlet for her to relax with as well.

[Road Rage]

directx

You appear to be in the friend zone with this woman. May God help you.

[whichwayisup]

I don't think any good can come of this friendship with this woman. UNLESS you include your wife and child too. Just don't put yourself in a situation where you can't say no...

 

Wish you'd just focus on your wife and baby, because that's much more important than trying to figure out what the other woman is thinking. This is your ego wanting to know...I mean, what if she says to you "I love you and want to be with you." Are you planning an affair? To leave your wife and child for this OW? These are things you have to think about...

 

You have alot to lose. And if you spend more time with her, your wife will wonder and get upset too.

[directx]

No, I could never do an affair. That's simply selfish and not worth it. We both have families: why should children pay the price for two people acting selfish? I think you are right, it is my ego wanting to know, at least thats part of it.

I am worried about her so I will find out what is going on and stop the wondering.

Her behavior is so confusing though. Blind_Otter has been a tremendous help. I'd love to hear from more Chinese people or people familiar with the culture.

thanks much whichwayisup!

[consternation]

As far as I'm concerned, anyone with a new baby should be posting in the baby forums, not the other woman forums. The fact you even posted in this forum says something, despite your (self) denials.

 

I think your title was a bit of a freudian slip... need s! ... is that the real problem? Not enough attention from your wife? Ego needs a boost etc? These are all normal issues, especially after a baby.

[blind_otter]

Just because you procreate doesn't mean your whole life has to revolve around baby and baby things. My sister just had her third baby and she likes to talk to me about non-infant related topics because she gets tired of it and she's a great mother. You can't think 24/7 about your kids!

 

And I hardly think one email a week is a big deal. And I haven't read about anything inappropriate occuring on either side.

 

I'm just saying.

[consternation]

One email a week? Did you read the same post as me? He's talking dinners, lunches, presents blah blah.

 

It's nice your SISTER wants to talk to her BROTHER about non baby related things. (duh, of course). That's a far cry from this man spending so much time on this woman who apparently he can't even understand.

[blind_otter]

One email a week? Did you read the same post as me? He's talking dinners, lunches, presents blah blah.

 

 

This is a post that describes a working relationship over the course of more than 2 years from what I read. Now he says they email once a week. I'm just readin the post.

 

Also, chinese new year, everyone gets presents. That's how the holiday is. It's a time to make atonement for your sins from the past year and pray for good luck for the new year. We burn paper "hell money", and red is the color of good luck. I get new money from my mom in red envelopes every new year.

[consternation]

Blind Otter if you feel it's all innocent and appropriate then I'm sure that's your prerogative.

[crazy_grl]

directx, if this is all innocent, why did you post under OW/OM and not in Friendship

[whichwayisup]

No, I could never do an affair. That's simply selfish and not worth it. We both have families: why should children pay the price for two people acting selfish? I think you are right, it is my ego wanting to know, at least thats part of it.

I am worried about her so I will find out what is going on and stop the wondering.

Her behavior is so confusing though. Blind_Otter has been a tremendous help. I'd love to hear from more Chinese people or people familiar with the culture.

thanks much whichwayisup!

 

You're welcome.

 

Look at it this way, any emails between you two are OK as long as they're "safe". Meaning, if your wife happened to read it, she wouldn't see something that would upset her or make her feel jealous.

 

I wish I could help ya out with chinese thing, I'm not sure of their culture when it comes to women.

[directx]

Consternation, in response to your post

"As far as I'm concerned, anyone with a new baby should be posting in the baby forums, not the other woman forums. The fact you even posted in this forum says something, despite your (self) denials."

No, the fact I posted here because the description on the forum was

The Other Man / Woman (24 Viewing)

The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner.

I focused on the 'involved with a committed partner'. My mistake. I should have put it in the friendship.

 

Thanks for jumping to conclusions again though.

 

You also said "I think your title was a bit of a freudian slip... need s! ... is that the real problem? Not enough attention from your wife? Ego needs a boost etc? These are all normal issues, especially after a baby."

There is no 'freudian slip'. For some reason opinions got reduced to s!. What would 's!' mean anyway? Could you explain that? And no, my ego doesn't 'need a boost'.

 

Thanks for jumping to conclusions again though.

 

Im just being honest with myself.

If you read it, it states I'm just wondering how she thinks and what her cultural habits could be, but you just focus on me and jump to conclusions. Don't worry about analyzing me. If I want that help from you, i will ask.

BlindOtter, Whichwayisup, and Roadrage seem to understand what I'm asking.

[directx]

Consternation, you said "One email a week? Did you read the same post as me? He's talking dinners, lunches, presents blah blah."

I think you read a different post from all of us. There is no mention of us having dinners. Thanks for jumping to conclusions, though. Its an after work happy hour thing. We sit at bar out in the open and talk. I get the feeling you are imagining some romantic setting where we are clicking wine glasses and clasping hands, when in fact its loud, public, and casual. And whats wrong with lunch? Ever have lunch with a coworker?

 

You said "It's nice your SISTER wants to talk to her BROTHER about non baby related things. (duh, of course). That's a far cry from this man spending so much time on this woman who apparently he can't even understand."

Yes, I can't understand her. That was the purpose of this post. She is friend and I care about her and worry about her. There are other things going on with both of us that just don't need to be mentioned right now. You are very hostile in every one of your posts and are reading into things that aren't there.

I'm not angry or snapping back, but honestly, you sound as if you have been hurt in the past or are holding on to some anger from the past.

Did some man really hurt you, by cheating? Are you really lonely? Seriously, you ok?

[directx]

yes WhichWayIsUp, everything is out in the open. The emails have nothing even remotely 'scandelous' and nothing can be read into them (unless of course you are consternation where she would probably deduce we have been renting motels and have love children on the side).

[consternation]

Direct - you are full of sh** .... we both know it. But carry on in your denial, if it makes you feel better. Over and out.

[directx]

Consternation,

WHAT are you talking about? Denial about what?

Tell us, what happened to you to think everyone is the same. It sounds as if you are relating personal life experiences in your responses.

So seriously, what happened?

[blind_otter]

Well that was certainly not helpful, consternation. I would be more apt to give your opinion more weight if it wasn't so....defensive? Reactive? Accusatory?

[crazy_grl]

While consternation does seem to be going over the top, directx, you did post on the OW forum, which understandably gives the reader the impression that you're interested in this woman romantically and thinking of cheating when you've got a new baby. That puts some people on the defensive immediately.

 

I realize you just made a mistake about where you posted because you're new to the forum, but realize that's going to color people's responses to your thread.

 

directx, there are also some parts of your initial post that give the impression that you have a bit too much interest in this woman and what she thinks of your relationship. This could be an indicator that this friendship is a potential danger to your marriage, which means that you really need to think about why you're so interested in this.

 

I'm not saying that you're looking to cheat, just that you should give you motives some thought and be sure this friendship isn't a threat to your marriage before continuing it.