I'm TheWife-my story finally

[TheWife]

I came across this forum suggested by a reader on www.marriagebuilders.com and in turn suggested it to my WH. Read H2T thread "I'm the MM & I love the OW-now what?" and in turn readers suggested I tell my story.

 

Reading so many stories both by the betrayed and wayward spouses gives some comfort that I am not alone.

 

My H had a 2+yr A w/a previous worker/friend six months prior to our 1st years anniversary. D-day was 2/1/06. H had just come home from work while I was making dinner. Looking back after the fact, every details of that event is replayed and analyzed. I remember H was preoccupied even days before. I just thought it was about the stresses of his work.

 

I was loving that day, poking fun. But something didn't seem quite right. While I was making dinner, he took out the vacuum cleaner and started to clean. I pointed out how odd that was for him and that he didn't need to clean because I had just vacuumed that morning.

 

At dinner, he looked emotionally beat. Perhaps it was the argument we had the day before. In my upbeat self, an attempt to get him out of that mood, I went over, have him a hug and told him I loved him very much and said, "We make a great team. Whatever it is, we can beat it". I went back to me seat and H started to well up in tears. I said, "hon, it can't be that bad, (out of the blue) unless of course you are having an affair." I was expecting to hear him say, not that wasn't it or that work is too much. But, there was a pause and silence then the cry. I knew right then what was coming. I started to sob, and said, "God, please, no. Not that. Please no." I'm crying while I'm reliving this moment.

 

The cry turned into anger as I took my half eaten dinner and flipped it across at him and I left the room, sobbing, dazed, and confused. H followed and the next phase was dealt with the why, when, how. REmorsefully, H confessed he had to tell me because his OW threatened him that if he didn't tell me or leave me for her, she would come to our home. Anger consumed me at that point. I yelled at him to get out. Remembering that his friend from college had his cell # logged in memory on our home phone, I picked up the phone. Without thinking, I told his friend what just had happened and that H can't be in the house.

 

Later that evening, while he gathered some clothes, I asked if the OW was pregnant. H stuttered, "I don't think so." I said, "She either is or she isn't!" He gave me the same answer. Anger turned into more sobs. All H could do was look at me with the same dazed look of uncertainty and loss.

 

That evening, after he left, I have never felt so alone. The only thing that broke this abyss of desperate loneliness was my mixed cocker spaniel. She came up to me, laid her snout stretched on the edge of our bed looking at me wagging her tail.

 

Trying to make sense of everything, I went through my H office looking for clues, anything. I wanted to know her phone number to find out if she was pregnant. I looked through his files and turned ever piece of paper for some answers not knowing what I might find. But, I found more than I expected. I found her phone number and a password to his online phone access.

 

As time ticked away without a wink, I called the OW. Calmly I told her who I was and what I know and then the dreaded the reason for my cally heart. She wasn't pregnant. Then she told me more her version of when, how, etc. Then, she went on to to tell me she "understood" what I was going through because her H of ten years also cheated on her. I wanted to reach down and rip her head off, but retained my self-respect with this reply, "If that's the case, then WHY in God's name would you turn around and do the same to another woman's husband?" She replied, "but it's not the same." I wasn't going to let her get the best of me.

 

H lied during his confession. He said the last time he saw her was Thanksgiving. He was in my home state on a business trip. His OW told me she was with him the day before I flew in and they had sex. Now I remember why he couldn't even get it up when we tried to have sex.

 

Later that morning, I called his Mom, my sister and friends. Each were in shock and in disbelief. At first, his Mom didn't believe me until several days later when he went up to visit her. His Mom had cancer and recently passed awas early this month.

 

Dazed and confused, but more angry because H still lied about the A. I called and left a message on H's voice that I spoke with his mistress and got the whole story and slammed him for lying. Then in my insane rage, I told him that he better come and pick up the rest of his clothes because if he didn't, they would be thrown on the front yard or burned in the backyard. He came. My girlfriend came that morning for support watched H pack his things while I was in the room, crying.

 

After I left, I showed my girlfriend what I found earlier. Shaking, she took the info, turned on my computer and logged on to his cell account. The password worked. Shocked, we looked at each monthly statements. H called the OW 6-8 times a day. I cried in shocked, disbelief and horror. Then my girlfriend wondered if H used the same password for his email. Shaking more than earlier, we held our breath as she pressed enter and then we gasped when it took us to his mail.

 

H kept every email his OW in a file folder with her name. We read every single one of her emails to him. It hurt more to read his emails to her. She described me as the "vampire sucking the blood out of the man she loves", on one email and how she's "not good with other women in her relationship". My GF & I gasped in horror as we read her description of me. Then there was the email which she had threatened him with an ultimatum if he didn't leave me for her.

 

The next few days and weeks were difficult. I wanted to die. I felt shamed and humiliated. Websites on infidelity consumed me to try to make sense of everything. But nothing made sense. Read up on the Plan A & B from marriagebuilders.com.

 

On Valentine's Day, H was on business trip and I emailed him my forgiveness as my gift. It was also a way for me to start the healing process. H sent me flowers. I also loved him very much and wanted my marriage. Plan A meant fulfilling his emotional needs. It's the having your cake and eating it too stage. Did that for the next month or so. But he was also seeing the OW while living with his friend. OW lived an hour. away. The times H came over, I asked him if he was still seeing the OW. He said no. But after you've been the same person for some time, you get to know their body language when they're telling the truth or not. After he left one night, I called the OW. I knew the H wasn't telling the truth. H was telling OW lies and he was telling me lies. Found out H did two women on the same day. Sick! Confronted H and still managed to lie. But I also read that this is what is expected in the plan A so I was willing to endure the shame that came with it.

 

During this time, H was going to IC, the counselor we went to see around the time his A had already started. I thought that was a good sign in his effort to work at the M. His IC advised he cease contact with OW and do a sabbatical for himself for 2 weeks.

 

Later in March, he went to my home state for business and take his IC's advise. Told him I wouldn't call him. While he was gone, I started to get blocked ID/hang up calls. The first few, I figured was just wrong number and didn't think much of it. Another call was from a young girl. Two days later, the hang up calls continue and now I started to get them at 1 in the morning. Didn't want to call H. Told my GF who ended emailin H. Told GF, I started to prop a chair behind the doors. Never heard from H. But fear of what the OW might do based on her emails, I waited until 15 minutes at the end of that Friday if H would call the phone company to change the number sine the bill was on his name. He didn't call so I went ahead and called. The phone company wouldn't at first, but told them what was going on and they did. Also asked the the number be unlisted. Still didn't hear from the H.

 

Then to take precautions, and saftey, I called an attorney to see what I could to change the locks. I legally couldn't do it w/o H. I emailed friends, family, H and OW's few email contacts and family a "Just in Case" letter that if anything ever happened to me, all they need to do was look into the OW's emails which I attached. I also didn't care at that point if we ended up in D. I expected it would.

 

The news spread like wild fire. The OW went crying to H. Checked H cell records and they spoke for over 100 minutes. But not once did I hear from H until a few days later when he flew home to let me know he was coming over. Expected we'd discuss D. He was upset that I sent those emails. I blasted him, "If your mistress is going to throw a punch at me, she better damn well be prepared I will punch her back! And when I do, she can't come crying to you and put on her f******* damsel in distress act so that you can fight her battle against me! And if it's her you want so that you can go play Daddy to her dysfunctional kids which one of them is a runaway, and live out his fantasy, there's the f****** door! Go!" Then I asked for a divorce.

 

The next day, we spoke. He wanted to know if I would reconsider and go to MC. We did. I was hopeful.

 

The next few weeks were still pretty hard. He still lived with his friend and wife. H came over and often we'd had great times and our sex was even better. But, it was an emotional struggle as well, not knowing whether or not he was still playing two women.

 

To put an end to this story, my H continued to lie throughout MC. Times I'd ask if he was still seeing the OW, he'd swear on his mother's life who was dying at the time that he wasn't. But gut feeling he wasn't telling the truth.

 

Late last month, H went to Detroit on business. We fought the night before because I insisted he stay home for his mom. Her health declined to the point she was given a few weeks or less to live. I told H, that he will be missed by his co-workers and his boss will understand. But you may not have a mother to come home to! He got upset accusing me of trying to control him. REminded him of what he told me last year when one of his colleagues had to cancel on this same meeting because his wife was having a baby. Instead, he said, his mom wasn't going to die. And if she did, she'll know that I love her.

 

That Tuesday, H gets a call from his sister to tell him their mother took a turn for the worse. H decided to try to come home a day earlier. Had to take my dog to the vet that Thursday when he flew in. What would take 2 hours at the vet took 20 minutes. Then for some odd reason, I had this knot in my stomach to go to the airport. Part of me wanted to support him and part of me was trying to find something. OW flies for Northwest and H flew on it.

 

Rushed home to bring the dog and rushed out to the airport. I knew about what time his flight was coming in. When I got there, I didn't see the flight, but saw another one that was coming in an hour later so I thought he'd be on that. I stood at a podium glancing at the rows of baggage carousels. A man came up to ask if I needed help. I told him I was here to surprise my H but I thought his flight had come in. Then he said, there was one that just came in 5 minutes ago and pointed the baggage claim area.

 

Heart racing, I walked to the other side. I saw his silhouette which was not hard to find at 6'4". I walked over and gave him a hug from behind. He turned around with an indifferent look, surprised but not a pleasant one. He had almost a guilt ridden look on his face. He was quiet. But I also noticed something wasn't quite right. He always wore jeans when he traveled. This time he wore khakis and polo shirt. Dismissed any thoughts in my mind, but I started to feel the familiar feeling of that gut wrenching emotions that just didn't go away. For the sake of getting into an argument which I knew he'd deny anyway, I didn't bring it up.

 

The walk to my car was odd and strange. Quiet and distant. We got into my car, then he started, "I just wanted to let you know why I'm not wearing my wedding ring." Shocked, angry, hurt I bursted tbe big "WHY?" He said he thought I said it was over between us because of how his family treated me. I said, did I say "OUR MARRIAGE was over?" He said, no. Then I threw questions like bullets:

 

Me: Was she there?

H: No

Me: Did you talk to her?

H: NO

Me: Did you see her?

H: Yes, I saw her at the aiport?

Me: You saw her at the airport?

H: Yeah, while I was waiting for my flight?

Me: Who the heKK do you think I am? Do I have stupid written on my forehead? You come home NOT in jeans when you always do when you travel. And you conveniently are not wearing your ring with a lame excuse! And you conveniently saw her at the airport?!

 

There are no words to explain that moment. It was like being stabbed all over again. I knew she was there with him. I came home sobbing. I drank to numb the pain. But that didn't work. I threw up later.

 

The next day while he was at the hospital, I seached his computer bag for clues, anything. Then, I cam across a computer print out. Heart pounding, my worst fear had come true. It was a computer print out listing Northwest flights with a standby tracking confirmation number for him. I also fly for an airline carrier. I knew what that was and what it meant.

 

When H came home that night, I confronted him. This is how it went:

Me: Is there anything I should know about the time you were in Detroit and at the airport?

H: (started to read his lies with his body language) I told you what I told you.

Me: (calmly) OK. Are you on her companion list?

H: (sensing his nervousness, shaking his head before he answers and looking away, then looks at me with a straight poker face) I don't think so.

Me: You either are are you aren't. Which is it?

H: No, I'm not!

Me: Are you sure?

H: Yes! What are you getting at?

Me: Then, explain this! (pulled out the paper and showed it to him)

H: I don't know what that is!

Me: You lying SOB! You know what this is! Remember? You're married to a flight attendant! And your screwing another one! So how did this get into your computer bag? And don't tell me the wind blew it in.

H: I don't know. Who knows? I probably grabbed it from the seat back pocket.

Me: Try again! You know that this is a PNR number and you know that the only way you can get that is if you are a companion of an airline employee!

 

Needless to say, H continued lying. I just wanted to shoot him at that point.

 

Last week, found out he'd been lying again. Confronted him. He wanted proof. I told him, it doesn't matter how I found out but that we both knew he had been lying.

 

At 3:00 AM Wednesday. he flips the light on and starts demanding where the tape recorder is. This is how it went:

 

H: Where's the tape recorder?

Me: WTF are you doing?

H: I know you have a tape recorder in here. (H rummages through my drawers, closet, under the bed, etc)

Me: While you're at it, why don't you look on the ceiling fan? (Plopped myself back to bed. H comes back to bed)

Me: (Already awake from this fire drill, I turned the light on) WTF is going on with you?

H: I'll find it.

Me: Then help yourself. (Turned light off) You know what really irks you is not so much how I found out, but that you were caught lying! You told everyone, your friends your mother even the counselors that you've ended your A. That's what you'r POd at!

H: Hmmmmm

Me: What makes you think I didn't hire a PI?

H: I wouldn't be surprised.

Me: Good! Because the next time I catch you lying and cheating, I will re-expose you the liar that you are and I will take the bricks from the backyard and break every f****** windows of your brand new car and spray paint it with "I cheated on my wife" and now you'll have to face everyone why. And I wouldn't care if you lost your job!"

H: (silent...)

 

Yes, that was an insane moment at an ungodly insane time!

 

Later that morning, neither one of us spoke to each other at first. But as always, I initiated the talk. He said, I sent a very clear message based on my threats. I said, yeah, I can see how it would affect you. Then I said how "sad it was that it took that kind of visual image for you to realize the destruction of what your A has caused, your ongoing lying and cheating you have done to me and to our M that now it affects you, your image, your integrity, your career and the respect of your colleagues. While all this time, you've told everyone how miserable you've been, how you're going to divorce me, what a horrible person I am, only to justify your A".

 

This Sunday, the day after his Mom's memorial service, we discussed our emotional needs. We listed what our ENs are and what we think each other's are and compared. When we got to the "control" it ensued into a heated argument that angered him. He grabbed my face, squeezed them with his hands, looked straight into my eyes and yelled, "I want to be in control of this marriage!" Shaken, I said (don't know why) "what part?" He said, "EVERYTHING!"

 

It didn't hit me until later that day, but I started to fear him.

 

Yesterday, when he got home. I told him that what happened on Sunday and what he did to me, that was a wake up call. He said, I'm sorry, that wasn't like him. I said, you also said that it wasn't like you to have an A. But you did. It wasn't like you to lie, but you did, not once, but repeatedly. Now, you're telling that wasn't like you. But it happened. Then I said that we needed to to discuss the MSA so that he can go on with his life and I can go on with mine.

[whichwayisup]

I'm completely speechless...And I am sorry for your pain. (Thankgod for yer doggie!)

 

Until he can fully admit all his wrong doings and own up to his bad choices, and take the heat, there is no way this marriage can work. He hasn't tried to earn your trust at all. I'm stunned reading your thread!

 

I will reply more later, but I do want to offer up another thread for you to read, by Thumbingmyway. Hopefully he'll post on your thread...Listen to him, he's been where you are!

And they're still together too, just like Dazed and his wife.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t57894/

 

If you want to do a search on his name, more threads of his will come up too.

[Mz. Pixie]

WOW, TW- what a story. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

 

A few points I'd like to make. By the way, I apologize in advance because I've been a cheating spouse. I'm recovered and remarried so I hope you can seriously listen to what I'm saying.......

 

All of this that your husband is doing is justification. When he says he wants to be in control of this marriage- he actually means- I want to be able to do what I want to do- go where I want- yada yada- which means screw OW-without your questioning.

 

You followed MB principals to the letter- including exposure. You know by reading there that always makes them furious. No surprises should have been seen there.

 

He's upset because you've rattled his nice little life by telling people that he had an affair. He's trying to turn that back on you. Don't let him. His actions are what has caused this- not your response to these actions.

 

I'm okay with exposure to family and friends and work if necessary. Now, to every single person you know, I think that's a stretch. Not saying you did that just making a point.

 

I think you've been more than patient and reasonable.

 

I have a question?? He was seeing OW while he was seeing you before you married?? Did you know about it?? If so, why did you marry him?? I'm a little confused by the timeline I think. Could you clarify??

 

I could put part of his actions off declaring them withdrawal but he never stopped seeing OW actually.

 

I have to applaud you in how you've handled this. Since you guys don't have any kids, it may be time for you to cut your losses on this one. He may be a serial cheater.

 

I fail to see how one can early on in marriage have EN's that are unmet that can cause an affair to happen. That usually doesn't happen until later on down the line. I really question someone that cheats very early in a marriage. You guys were newlyweds if I have the timeline right.

[portableversion]

Moto, is it true you wanted to play knight in shining armor to your OW's dysfunctional life and have her fawning gratitude?.

 

How sweet. But i suspect it was baser than that....as in maybe OW agreed to do things in bed most farm animals wouldn't do.

[Ladyjane14]

I have a question?? He was seeing OW while he was seeing you before you married??

 

I'm curious about the timeline as well.

If he was cheating even before the wedding, that means he's NEVER put in an honest day as a husband.

 

I've been married for well over 20 years. My husband and I never even had a fight for the first three.

He treated me like a QUEEN during our honeymoon phase. You would've thought flowers bloomed in my footsteps... that's how nicely he treated me. And it took two decades to come down from there.

 

Here you two are, starting out and hitting ROCK BOTTOM as newlyweds.

 

What's your interest level in preserving the marriage, btw? I have to be honest.... if I were in your postion and didn't have kids, mortgages, and minivans to think of.... I'd be soooo out of there.

[Hard2Think]

Sounds to me like he had alot going on mentally. I don't know how wise it was to discuss EN's right after the memorial services - I mean that he had alot of emotional turmoil to deal with at that time.

 

He sounds like he was not too much of a different state of confusion than I was at one time. He probably thinks he's in love with OW, and so he can't seem to think too clearly.

 

Now I know that he's wronged you - but at the same time, your anger and threats may be driving him away you. Remember that the OW is probably treating very nicely by comparison, which for him is a powerful draw.

 

I don't want to infer anything - but you did mention that you had had a big argument with him the day before D-Day about something and that you thought that this may have been the cause for what you thought was his despondency. Does this happen alot? Do you argue with him all the time and get on his case? Your H did mention that on my thread. I'm not trying to put any blame on you - but do you think you were someone he would look forward to coming home to every day?

 

My wife used to get on my case so frequently for such insignificant issues, that there actually reached a point where I was dreading coming home after work. I can tell you that having an OW who couldn't wait to see me so she could shower me with affection made me resent that treatment even more.

 

I agree wholeheartedly that your H needs to drop OW before he can dedicate himself to you - but I also do think that you need to take a different approach to making him actually want to do that. I'm not saying that any of this is "fair" and I recognize that pride and feelings of self-respect may get in the way - but you do have a major edge over OW if indeed you choose to employ it.

 

I know that whenever my wife was nice and loving to me (these were rare moments indeed), I sharply reduced contact with OW. OW and I broke up twice because I enjoyed my wife's company when she as nice and simply stopped calling or seieng OW much. Then my wife would get all nasty again, and I would miss the kindness of OW and try to mend things with her.

[Roo]

WOW I don't really know how to say anything but WOW...

 

Gosh you are just a stronger woman than I, I can totally understand how enraged and out of control you must have been, I think if I were you I'd actually have trully lost my mind... I'm so so so sorry for your situation...

 

I'm not totally hip to all the jargon yet... but are you still even considering making this work, or are you done?

 

(((HUGS)))

[EnigmaXOXO]

If he was cheating even before the wedding, that means he's NEVER put in an honest day as a husband.

 

Agreed. He is a complete stranger and you have been married to an illusion. I can't fathom how one goes about the process of putting back together what they never really had.

 

Even marriage counseling is destined to fail if he's manipulating your counselor and "controlling" that process with deception, as well.

 

I have to be honest.... if I were in your postion and didn't have kids, mortgages, and minivans to think of.... I'd be soooo out of there.

 

I wholeheartedly agree, again!

[ThumbingMyWay]

wow

 

The Wife....I know exactly what you feel. In fact I had to stop reading cause it just brings back anger....which I am still trying to let go....yes it does rear is head now and then....even after 2 years....yeah

 

anyways....lots to ponder here....not sure what advice I can give you..but i am here to listen and will follow your story....

[TheWife]

Will try to answer all:

 

Timeline: We met 9/1999. Became engaged a year later. H moved in w/me in 2001. Married 7/19/03. H started pursuing OW on 2/04. We were also tying to start a family with me going through IVF. We bought a house 7/05. My second marriage, H's first and only R he lived with 24/7.

 

Gosh, reading your replies really made me look at myself about my choice.

 

Prior to M, issues were:

1) H wanted to keep in contact w/ex girlfriends and fiances. He categorized them as "female friends". Never had a problem w/his female friends. He thought I was trying to make him give them up. I have male friends. I wouldn't expect him to make me give them up. He'd travel 200 miles to see a female friend, tell me he'd call, then not call. He couldn't figure out why I'd be upset. I've met most of his female friends including his ex-fiance's sister which I was shocked. He never told me I was going dinner with him to meet his ex-fiance's sister. Who does that? We were engaged then. Looking back, that should've been a red flag. There were others, but I dismissed them because I wanted to believe he was an honest, good man.

 

2) H claimed he was a man of integrity. But he couldn't follow through. He'd say he'd call, but wouldn't.

 

Went to MC before M. The first MC advised him that he needed to change regardless who he was with. After that, he didn't want to go anymore because he felt he was ganged up on by two women, me and the MC.

 

His friend whom he moved in with on D-day gave him three new referrals of MC. One of which was a male. I expected he'd choose the guy this time, but he decided on a female MC, who is now his IC.

 

After 2-3 sessions with this MC, H didn't want to go anymore because this MC advised him the same. He needed to change no matter who he was with.

 

So, it became evident, that although my H liked the idea of being married, he wasn't ready to accept the responsibilities that came with marriage. He's denied this all along and reverts back to the same argument that it was always him that had to change.

 

REcently a discussion was on this topic. He gave me a laundry list why our M isn't going to work. Then it came the the "change". He was very general. I asked for specific. He couldn't come up with one. So, I said, "You keep bringing up the fact that you're always the one who had to change. But you can't come up with what I need to change. HOW am I supposed to fix something that I don't know that is broken? Why wait 2-3-6 years later to tell me I also need to change?" His reply? A long pause and finally, "you're right. This has been a hard lesson for me." Does anybody have a gun? Can someone point it to me?!"

 

Additionally, in his view, these changes were a sign of him "giving up" of who he is, the easy going, guy. He said, his friends noticed the difference and they didn't like what they were seeing.

 

When comparing me with his OW, H commented how the OW accepts him (sure she is) and that she doesn't judged him (of course...). He also wrote in his description (written) how the OW is "a pleaser; weak; enjoys her acts of service".

 

As for the threats, I normally don't throw them out carelessly unless provoked and am willing to follow through. He knows I'm capable of it and I keep my word. I have ever thrown a threat that way. He's also the only relationship I've ever been with that I somehow started to cuss more. But, I'm also not that stupid. He wouldn't be worth getting cited for vandalism on a community property. Not anymore anyway.

 

To better understand, our upbringing is so opposite. Our culture is a big factor. His family walks away from conflicts. My family confronts it. We're very close and his is strained. When a member of our family does something wrong, the other members get involve and become part of the solution. His family avoids and waits for time to solve it. The conflicts are never brought up. They won't talk to each other for weeks sometime months. I could argue with my sister and at the end of the day, we still manage to say we love each other and still talk the next day. With they'll wait and won't bother each other until the person who is mad makes the first move. H acknowledged and admire the closeness of my family.

 

I'll answer more later. Thanks for your replies.

[TheWife]

I'm okay with exposure to family and friends and work if necessary. Now, to every single person you know, I think that's a stretch. Not saying you did that just making a point.

 

I think you've been more than patient and reasonable.

 

I have a question?? He was seeing OW while he was seeing you before you married?? Did you know about it?? If so, why did you marry him?? I'm a little confused by the timeline I think. Could you clarify??

 

I have to applaud you in how you've handled this. Since you guys don't have any kids, it may be time for you to cut your losses on this one. He may be a serial cheater. quote]

 

Didn't expose to every one he/we/OW knows. H likes to exagerrate. But, remember the Herbal Hair shampoo commercial that went like this, I told my friend, who told their friends, and who told their friends....

[TheWife]

wow

 

The Wife....I know exactly what you feel. In fact I had to stop reading cause it just brings back anger....which I am still trying to let go....yes it does rear is head now and then....even after 2 years....yeah

 

anyways....lots to ponder here....not sure what advice I can give you..but i am here to listen and will follow your story....

 

Thanks TMW,

 

When I get a chance, I will read through your story. Yest there is a lot to ponder.

 

I noticed your quote, "Adore your wife because if you don't someone else will". I had to laugh because my H will take this quote to heart and turn it around on me.

[TheWife]

I'm completely speechless...And I am sorry for your pain. (Thankgod for yer doggie!)

 

Until he can fully admit all his wrong doings and own up to his bad choices, and take the heat, there is no way this marriage can work. He hasn't tried to earn your trust at all. I'm stunned reading your thread!

 

 

Thanks WWIU,

 

Your encouragement to tell my story helped a lot.

 

 

That's just it, he hasn't own up to his responsibilities. He repeatedly say how sorry he is, but he has yet to be like H2T who recommitted himself to his M and W. I get a lot of double talk. That's probably how I got to cussing. But is there anyone who doesnt cuss?

[UnknowingOW]

WOW...Wife. I know EXACTLY what you are going through. My xH was the same way...lie, lie, lie...deny, deny, deny. However, his physical partner count for him was well over 500+ within our 8-years of marriage. He was a sex addict. He was both physically and mentally abusive.

 

I wish you the best. It's a hard road you are heading down. I completely understand the insanity you are going though. Counseling will help. But, take stock in yourself first. It took me 2-years after D-day to finally walk from the lying bastard. I did with my head high and made my life on my terms. It will take time, but there are many on LS that are here to help. Trust your gut...it's the only barometer which will tell you the truth.

[TheWife]

Agreed. He is a complete stranger and you have been married to an illusion. I can't fathom how one goes about the process of putting back together what they never really had.

 

Even marriage counseling is destined to fail if he's manipulating your counselor and "controlling" that process with deception, as well.

 

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree, again!

Your point hit a chord. It's a sad reality actually. I "thought" I did marry someone who was honest and sensitive and true to himself. But, now, when I look at my H I don't even know him.

 

I have to agree with you. He's been able to cultivate a "stellar" near perfect persona for himself that people admire and respect, a couldn't do no wrong type of a person. I've seen how he's been able to manipulate people around him including our MC. He knows exactly what to say and how to say it with a calm, non threatening way and very well thought of responses. But, I also know he has a kindness in his heart for others.

 

I also can't fault him for whatever shortcomings he's had. We all have them because we are a sum of product of our upbringing. How he deals with honesty with himself only he can figure it out. Until then, he will continue to be faced with the same life lessons.

 

Boy....this is tough....

[Mz. Pixie]

Will try to answer all:

 

Timeline: We met 9/1999. Became engaged a year later. H moved in w/me in 2001. Married 7/19/03. H started pursuing OW on 2/04. We were also tying to start a family with me going through IVF. We bought a house 7/05. My second marriage, H's first and only R he lived with 24/7.

 

Gosh, reading your replies really made me look at myself about my choice.

 

Prior to M, issues were:

1) H wanted to keep in contact w/ex girlfriends and fiances. He categorized them as "female friends". Never had a problem w/his female friends. He thought I was trying to make him give them up. I have male friends. I wouldn't expect him to make me give them up. He'd travel 200 miles to see a female friend, tell me he'd call, then not call. He couldn't figure out why I'd be upset. I've met most of his female friends including his ex-fiance's sister which I was shocked. He never told me I was going dinner with him to meet his ex-fiance's sister. Who does that? We were engaged then. Looking back, that should've been a red flag. There were others, but I dismissed them because I wanted to believe he was an honest, good man.

 

2) H claimed he was a man of integrity. But he couldn't follow through. He'd say he'd call, but wouldn't.

 

Went to MC before M. The first MC advised him that he needed to change regardless who he was with. After that, he didn't want to go anymore because he felt he was ganged up on by two women, me and the MC.

 

His friend whom he moved in with on D-day gave him three new referrals of MC. One of which was a male. I expected he'd choose the guy this time, but he decided on a female MC, who is now his IC.

 

After 2-3 sessions with this MC, H didn't want to go anymore because this MC advised him the same. He needed to change no matter who he was with.

 

So, it became evident, that although my H liked the idea of being married, he wasn't ready to accept the responsibilities that came with marriage. He's denied this all along and reverts back to the same argument that it was always him that had to change.

 

REcently a discussion was on this topic. He gave me a laundry list why our M isn't going to work. Then it came the the "change". He was very general. I asked for specific. He couldn't come up with one. So, I said, "You keep bringing up the fact that you're always the one who had to change. But you can't come up with what I need to change. HOW am I supposed to fix something that I don't know that is broken? Why wait 2-3-6 years later to tell me I also need to change?" His reply? A long pause and finally, "you're right. This has been a hard lesson for me." Does anybody have a gun? Can someone point it to me?!"

 

Additionally, in his view, these changes were a sign of him "giving up" of who he is, the easy going, guy. He said, his friends noticed the difference and they didn't like what they were seeing.

 

When comparing me with his OW, H commented how the OW accepts him (sure she is) and that she doesn't judged him (of course...). He also wrote in his description (written) how the OW is "a pleaser; weak; enjoys her acts of service".

 

 

I'll answer more later. Thanks for your replies.

 

Yeah, I'm thinking not the best judgment concerning marrying him.

 

Some of your comments have jumped out at me. Has your MC or your IC (assuming you're in IC) ever commented that he may be a narcassist?? His comments and the way he acts lead me to think perhaps he is. If you're unfamiliar please google it and do a little reading. Let me know what you think.

 

The comments he's written about OW? That shows me he has no respect for women. Here he is screwing this woman and he's saying that about her?? Ummmmm, this is a guy who clearly thinks only of himself. The affair, the entitlement, etc.

 

Just the fact that he thought it was okay to drive 200 miles to see a female friend while you guys were engaged?? OH HELL NO! This is not something a guy does unless he's getting some!

 

I'm in my second marriage. My husband had tons of female friends when I came into the picture. Two of them are from college- and they've seen each other through divorces- births- everything. I would never ask him to give them up. That being said, however- they only call each other a couple times a year- they don't text each other- and he certainly wouldn't give up time with me to be with them. Because he's not getting anything from them- and has no intentions of TRYING to get anything from them. Not saying that people can't have friends of the opposite sex- but anytime those interfere in your marriage then that friendship needs to be nipped. Because ultimately the marriage is more important. I would never tolerate my husband giving a woman more attention than he does me.

 

If he's a narcassist he's probably a serial cheater, because all he cares about is himself. At this point, he's not sorry for what he's done- he's justifying. He's lied about contact with the OW several times. He's shown that he's not interested in mending the marriage.

 

You guys have no children. I'm not the kind of person who says divorce at the drop of a hat but you can't mend this on your own. And, if he's going to treat you like this why would you want to mend it??

 

I think I'd cut my losses and find someone who appreciated me and who was willing to be faithful. Because basically you guys have not really had any hard times yet. What's going to happen years down the line- say when your looks have faded, you've put on a few pounds and one of you has gotten a serious illness. He started pursuing OW just a FEW MONTHS after you guys got married!!!

[TheWife]

Thanks for your repyly Mz. Pixie:

 

I have brought it to his attention about him being narcisstic and it was mentioned in of our MC session before the A blew up. There have been many times when I've told him all he cares about it himself, especially with the A. He always got defensive, defiant and accused me of being "judegemental" and critical and that I'm trying to change him. And then, he'd used it over and over to make a case as to why he resents me.

 

The other day, he commented how he hasn't grown in this M, but yet he's admitted I have been one of his life lessons with whom he has learned a lot. I know, double talk.

 

The hardest part for me has been the realization that as much as I fought for this R, I realize you can't teach someone respect and honesty. And if my H reads this much on my thread, he KNOWS from the getgo that what has always been important to me is repsect, courtesy and honesty.

 

Last night before he took off to meet with his friends, I asked him when he was moving out. Though the night before we decided that he'd stay here (separate bedroom) until the refinancing of the house is done, I'm not quite sure if I wanted him here after what happened this Sunday. I told him, I'm not quite sure what argument we'll have that will cause him to do more than just grab my face. So I asked him if he could move out sooner. He said he would.

 

We are working to end the M. Since we bought a house last year, and I am putting together the MSA.

 

I know....My ride has stopped. It's time for me to get out and move on. Told him a few days ago that "I need someone that I can grow, laugh, who will respect, love and adore me and the R and someone who won't take me for granted, whose trustworthy and honest with himself. I have been a hard lesson for you. Everyone has a purpose in life and if one of those purposes for me was to be your life lesson so that you can go on and be a better person, a better man for the next woman or in your R, then I have served that purpose as part of my life."

 

While I've always viewed both the beauty and the challenges of two people vastly different can be complementary, I also realize that no matter how much you reach out, those differences can be too great two people to come together.

 

1) I'm much more assertive and he's passive. He acknowledge that my assertiveness has benefited him professionally and personally. But, it's been a personal struggle and conflict because he wants to be in control. He has yet to find a balance without coming across retaliatory. H thought I would "change" once we got married. I know....This was brought up in MC.

 

Me: What made you think I was going to change?

H: I thought you'd ease up?

Me: In what way?

H: Be more relaxed about me being with friends?

Me: Did I ever ask you to give up your friends?

H: No.

Me: Did I ever tell you to not spend time with your friends?

H. No.

Me: Then explain how you came up with that?

H: Well...I just thought you would be more easy going.

Me: I think what you thought was going to happen was that you get to do whatever it is that you want, when you want it WITHOUT having anyone, ME, your wife, to answer to. What you want is someone you can walk all over.

H. Hmmmm....

 

Hence the advise from all MC and IC that he needed to change regardless who he was with, married or not. And hence, this how our R and M evolved to me feeling like the "teacher" and H being the "student."

 

2) H is a dreamer, I'm a doer. H always commented how he has an adventurous spirit. I also love adventure. One common goal we share is travel. But he has never traveled outside USA until he met me. He won't create adventures. I, who like spontaneoity will go out and actually do what I set out to do and H gladly follows. H won't make plans for get togethers with his friends, he always wait to be invited. H always wanted to start a business, but has yet to start one. I, without any blueprints, and with a "just do it" attitude, I started an online retail business which sells medical hosiery to indviduals, doctors and plan on expanding.

 

So do I feel stupid for having stayed on this M this long to a man who doesn't respect the M and me? Absolutetly. But I also learned a painful lesson on love which is to "not love someone more than you love yourself." That is what I gave to my H. This is what I did to myself. Part of the reason, why I stayed this long, hoping the M will work, hoping that my H would realize the values in our M, was because this is my second M. I so, desperately wanted it to work, to be the only M for me. I did at one point. I thought he was my soulmate. But, there's a reality in what we envision in a soulmate. Besides the tingling emotions we get when we think of our soulmate, at the core of that individual who is supposed to be our soulmate is someone who knows how to love him/herself. After all, if you don't know how to love yourself, how can you truly show love to those you profess to love?

 

I know I'll be okay. I thank WWIU and H2T for encouraging me to tell my story. And being asked questions helped me to analyze myself, my choice, the direction I will take and yes strength.

 

I also know that it will take time to process this new stage or phase of my life. It's a stage I wish no one will ever have to do or repeat, I included. But, I know I will be a better person, lover and partner because of it.

[UnknowingOW]

I also know that it will take time to process this new stage or phase of my life. It's a stage I wish no one will ever have to do or repeat, I included. But, I know I will be a better person, lover and partner because of it.

 

Well said! Yes, you will become a better person in going through all this. And it will take time to get through the emotions. Some days are good and others are not. Some days you'll pick up that bottle of Pinot and think why not...my life sucks...and you'll drink the one or two glasses and go on. I would suggest keeping a journal of your feelings. Don't go back and read it until you realize you've not thought about this mess for a long time. Read it then. Then burn it!

 

I had just started back into college and I was 32. I was afraid and insecure of myself because of the nightmare I had lived through. Over two-years I noticed how strong I had become as a person.

 

You will get through this. Good luck and hugs.

[Mz. Pixie]

You are a wise woman Wife! I like the way you think.

 

I hope you stick around after this is all over with. We could use your perspective around here.

[TheWife]

Thanks UnknowingOW,

 

I'm glad to hear that you are making a strong recovery. There is no time limit for that. Only you can decide when. Baby steps...that's all it takes.

 

My strength comes from having experienced really tough lessons at a very young age. Coming from a poor background where I had watched my Mom, widowed at 26 with three children to feed, struggled to find ways to feed us. From that, it taught me to not take things for granted, and appreciate the little things in life. It also gave me the hunger to be succesfull just so I wouldn't have to struggle. At 23, I spent the summer in Instanbul, Turkey, working and studying with 50 other students from all over the world. It was that moment when I discovered what I wanted and do. The following year, I dropped out of college, bought myself a one-way ticket to California from Hawaii, maxed out my credit card, and with 36 dollars in my wallet, here I am with no regrets.

 

As dreaming of starting my own busines and actually doing it, I have another dream I am pursuing to make it a reality.

 

Before my H left last night, he saw that I cried.

 

H: Why are you crying?

Me: Just about everything.

H: Be careful to not have a victim's mentality?

Me: (disbelief, but not surprised) Nope. But the M has been the victim of your affair.

H: Hmmmmm....

 

It's funny because in one of our MC session, he admitted and acknowledge when I brought it how he and his family have lived with a victim's mentality, pointing the blame on others and difficulty taking responsibilities, and then for him to turn around and say that. I just shook my head and thought to myself....unbelievable.

 

You keep growing. One of the things that helped me is finding ways to occupy my mind and time. Throughout this ordeal, I'm a volunteer for an animal charity organization which I chair the corporate sponsors for this year's WALK event. So anyone wanting to buy raffle tickets and win a free round trip on Southwest and JetBlue, just log on to www.folba.org. My H always talked about how he would volunteer for some worthwhile cause, but has yet to do that. I've given up Thanksgiving to feed the homeless which he's never done that I know of.

 

So keep up the good work. HUGS to you too.

[Mz. Pixie]

Be careful not to have the victim mentality??

 

Who the F does this guy think he is???

 

It's gonna be so funny when you find someone else and you're happy. It's going to eat him up.

 

Happiness is really the best revenge!

[TheWife]

Yep, Ms. Pixie....

 

That's all I could do....shake my head in disbelief..

 

Oh, he also said for me "to not wallow in my own misery."

 

The other thing he said earlier yesterday because of my threat of trashing his car, "I know this will come across melodramatic, but I am prepared for the daggers of the swords to land." LOL!

 

We had just watched the movie, "The Last Samurai" the night before.

[serial muse]

Oh, TheWife, I do sympathize. Your story sounds really familiar on a lot of levels. I only found out in MC after my H's affair had already come out that there had been a struggle for power in our marriage for years. I had no idea. Apparently, he (a passive person, like your husband) had been resenting me for ages, and wanted somehow to exert his authoritah.

 

Several years after our divorce, a friend (who knew both of us) asked me out of the blue if I thought my exH was a sociopath. Whoa. But no, of course I didn't think that. Still, I knew why my friend asked that - my exH never did manage to acknowledge that he'd done something that was not okay, was born out of anger and that, regardless of what he wanted to blame me for (everything - no, really), was not actually justified. Through it all, he went on pretending to our friends that nothing was wrong. He lied - quite skillfully - to just about everyone, including his OW, for many, many months. He never did apologize, except in an "I'm sorry I had to have an affair" kind of way. As though he were ten years old. He really was disconnected from the reality of the situation, and was unable to think past saving his own skin to summon up empathy for the pain he was causing others. My last memories of him are of a man-shaped ball of resentment. He fairly oozed it. It was so strong I thought I must have earned it, for a long time. Then I realized he was summoning up all the anger and resentment he could, so he wouldn't have to deal with the possibility that yeah - he was not the good guy he'd always played at being. Maybe he convinced himself, in the end - but I went through the same realization you did - he wasn't the guy I thought I married at all. I thought he was this kind-hearted, sweet, gentle man; in truth, he was a chameleon. I had begun to suspect already, because he could be quite snide and cruel behind people's backs. But I guess you want to go on believing what you want to believe...

 

I will never date a passive person again, I'll tell you that. They're far more dangerous, because you never see it coming, and they've buried their anger for so long that it completely subsumes reality. For example. Two weeks after I discovered the affair, he told me, scandalized, that his cousin's wife had cheated on him and wasn't it awful.

 

Jesus H. Christ. My exH, still embroiled in a one-year-plus affair while I'm crying my eyes out every night and can barely function, bitches to me about how terrible it is that a woman is cheating on his cousin?

 

Disconnected from reality doesn't even begin to describe...

I pointed out the craziness of that schizophrenic attitude. He was silent. For real - it had NOT OCCURRED TO HIM.

 

And by the way - yes, in my fury and hurt, I told his mom the truth. After asking him repeatedly whether he had told her. He said he did, of course. And she - angry, upset and hurt herself - promptly told his entire family. Later, he ended up moving away because, as he angrily informed me, it was "my fault" for telling them about what happened. I pointed out that all I did was tell his mom the precise truth, which is more than he did.

[Mz. Pixie]

Yep, Ms. Pixie....

 

That's all I could do....shake my head in disbelief..

 

Oh, he also said for me "to not wallow in my own misery."

 

The other thing he said earlier yesterday because of my threat of trashing his car, "I know this will come across melodramatic, but I am prepared for the daggers of the swords to land." LOL!

 

We had just watched the movie, "The Last Samurai" the night before.

 

When he said you shouldn't wallow in your misery you should have said, "I'm not babycakes- I'm sure I'll find someone to treat me as I deserve to be treated and will F my brains out everynight better than you ever did"

 

At my old church we had a youth minister whose wife had to have a heart transplant and almost died. While she was in the hospital about to die, he consumated his affair with her best friend. Our head pastor tried to get him to come clean and admit it and ask for forgiveness from the church and he didn't want to be forgiven. So, later someone who's known the OW was talking to her and she asked her if she'd ever considered how that sin would cost her when she got to Heaven. She looked at this woman and said, "That's a price we're willing to pay"

 

At this point, however, the guy and the OW are married and the last time I saw them- he's chatting away on his cell and she's screaming at him like a banshee in the middle of Walmart.

 

Looks like it's working out for them!

[whichwayisup]

Thanks WWIU,

 

Your encouragement to tell my story helped a lot.

 

 

That's just it, he hasn't own up to his responsibilities. He repeatedly say how sorry he is, but he has yet to be like H2T who recommitted himself to his M and W. I get a lot of double talk. That's probably how I got to cussing. But is there anyone who doesnt cuss?

 

You're welcome! And I'm glad to see so many replying to your thread!

 

Yeah who doesn't cuss?? Sometimes my hubby makes fun of me when I'm drivin' the car, when someone cuts me off or bugs me by making some stupid thing, I go into a rant and swear!

 

As for your hubby (and now I wonder if he is going to post his own thread...) You are right, things won't change until he checks the attitude, owns up to everything and comes clean 100%. And he has to say byebye to the OW forever...I'm not too sure he's willing to do that, as she definately gives him alot of attention, which it seems just feeds his ego.