Intro to my mess...unwillingly separated, H wants divorce, I want to work things out

[Guest]

Okay this is going to be long, and most likely confusing and rambling, but here goes....I just need any help or advice I can get from people who might understand..

 

H and I have been married a bit over 5 years, together going on 7 years. Got married when I was 18 and he was 19. We have an almost 4 year old daughter together. Had a period of about 3 months before we got married where we were in different states due to his military training, during which time I went into party-girl mode, began drinking a lot, and messed around with 3 people....still loved H and wanted nothing more than to be with him, told him on my own about what I had done...he was devastated but forgave me and we were married a couple months later.........

 

Fast forward to about 3.5 months ago...H and I are at a party at H's friend's house....H's friend and I are dancing (H would not dance and H's friend practically forced me onto the dance floor)....all of us are drinking, I am drunk....H's friend takes my hand and dances me toward the steps to go upstairs, I stupidly go along with it and follow him upstairs...he leads me into his bedroom and attempts to get me to sleep with him....I turn him down, tell him I don't want to do that to my husband, I don't want to hurt my husband that way, and also ask him why he would want to do that to his GF....as I am telling him these things, H comes upstairs, tries to open the bedroom door, and finds it locked....H's friend locked it....H flips, thinks that things were going on, and rushes off...

 

I run after him explaining the situation....we work through it the next day, he is still really upset and it brought back the hurt of what I did to him before we were married....anyway, H's friend comes over a few days later to talk to me about what happened and at first acts like he just wants to apologize...I make the mistake of telling him that it was hard to say no to him, he takes that and decides to ask if he can kiss me....I tell him no, that it can't be done...well we exchange email addresses so that he can email H and I pictures he took from the party....he and I end up chatting back and forth in emails and things get flirty....he eventually tries to set up a time for me to meet up with him, but I don't get back to him to make plans....same night, H decides to have friends over for a small party, including this particular friend.....

 

once again I am drunk, H's friend was drinking too but was not drunk....I go upstairs to check my cell phone in my bedroom and H's friend follows me into the bedroom, comes up behind me, I turn around, and before I even really know it we are kissing. I feel horrible instantly, want to take it all back.......I get scared, PETRIFIED of being up front with my H this time around because I know the likely outcome of him finding out...well somehow H's friend's GF finds out about H's friend trying to sleep with me, and my H ends up hacking into my email and finds the old flirty emails exchanged between this friend and myself.

 

I end up deciding to be honest with my H and tell him about the kiss. So things were really bad between DH and I....during the time of the emails being exchanged between his friend and myself, I was starting to wonder if I still loved my H...looking back now, I know it was that euphoria of something new and different, etc....but at the time I was confused, and H and I had a history of arguing and fighting, and I told H that I am confused and need some time/space....during this time, H pests me constantly every day about whether I've come to a decision....he repeatedly tells me "he was happy" and tells me to make a list of things I want him to improve on, he makes a written list of things that the two of us can do to improve our marriage, including spending more time together, less partying, etc......(this was happening BEFORE he found out about the kiss, I believe)...

 

so after I told him about the kiss, we were arguing one morning and I said something about "well then you can leave" but didn't really mean it and didn't really want him to leave....he decides to leave however....packs up, moves out into an apartment that one of his single buddies has....I am crushed and shocked but dont' want to look weak or like I 'need' him too much so I dont' say too much and just kinda play along because I'm thinking he isn't really serious.....by this point, I have ended contact with the friend. So only a week or two after DH 'moves out', he spends the night at another W's house and sleeps with her....he comes home at 5am the next morning (was supposed to to watch our daughter while I went out doing christmas-eve early AM shopping)....

 

I could sense....I just KNEW that he had spent the night with someone....I know my H extremely well and have an uncanny way with stuff like that.....I pretty much call him out on it, and he tells me he spent the night with another woman.....I flip....very hurt, all those emotions....run out of the house and off to one of my best girl friend's to tell her about it....as it ends up, H ends up continuing to see OW and moves in with her, partly out of a lack of another place to stay. At this point I am freaking out...I know that I love my H and our family and don't want us to divorce...H tells me he wants a divorce and also tells me that he and the OW tell each other that they love each other. In the beginning of all of this, H would still come along on outings with our daughter and myself when I asked him to.....when he would be here at home, I could do nothing but cry...he would try to console me....but kept saying that he still wanted a divorce....he would let me hug him, kiss his neck, heck he practically slept with me on several occassions.....

 

I end up getting him to agree to go to one marriage counseling session, but he agrees to go only because I wont' stop pesting him about going...he goes but tells me he has no intent of working on this marriage and still wants a divorce.....counseling session ends up going horribly....he uses the time to go off about the cheating before he and I were married and about the recent goings-on with his friend and myself, and the therapist pretty much asks him, "so what you are saying is it's too little too late and you're done..." and he agrees. I continue to tell my husband I have changed...that I won't allow myself to become drunk and in situations that lead to what happened....etc....he says it doesn't matter, that he can't trust me, etc..

 

So as it stands now, he has been living with OW for going on 2 months now and things have deteriorated between he and I despite my being nothing but nice to him.....I made what I guess was a mistake, of calling him leaving him sweet messages all the time, texting, making sure I had a dinner plate made up for him to eat while he is here every night watchign our daughter while I'm at work, asking him how his day was, etc....he tells me he doesn't want it, that he just wants a divorce....he is hostile to me, yells at me daily when he sees me when I get home from work, and runs off to his 'home' with OW as soon as possible after I get home from work.

 

I have tried to get him to see that it is worth working on our marriage for our daughter's sake...she is still young but she tells me all the time how much she misses daddy and wants him to stay at home with her and myself. DH used to tell me that even though he hates it, he still thinks about comign back to me and our daughter, but now that seems to be out the window and I have asked him what he has to lose by just coming back and giving it another shot, because I truly believe neither one of us ever put 100% into making the relationship work, and he has said he is not prepared to lose OW, now he won't even speak of trying to work anything out or coming back at all. He flipped out last night because I told him I was going to domestics to set up child support...he has been giving me money, but is also fixing up OW's place, buying her flowers, bought a new computer, was taking her out all the time, etc.....

 

Some additional info.....shortly after we married, we moved half way across the country due to his military service...we spent a year apart while he was in Iraq, he missed the birth of our daughter, but during the time he was gone, we remained incredibly close through letters and the phone....he spoke of how proud he was of his wife and daughter and new family and how he would always love us and take care of us and how he wouldn't trade his life with us for anything ever.......after his time in the service was up, we moved back to our hometown which brought H back to his friends which are a bad influence on him....before I was with H, he was a coke addict who also smoked pot all the time and generally got into a lot of trouble....

 

he lied to me about the drug use early on but while he was in the service had stopped and the two of us even went to church together for a brief period of time....he is conflicted religiously, he was raised as a Christian in a christian home as was I, and the two of us were back on the path of living our lives that way for a little while, but it kinda fell into the background after we got married and moved and started our life together away from our hometown and families....anyway, he would have spurts here and there where he would realize he had strayed and he would start praying again and would stop the drugs and the drinking and all of that.....but after we moved back to our hometown, he began hanging out with all his old friends and got back into the habit of smoking pot and going out drinking with his buddies while leaving me home alone.

 

I didn't know at first, he lied and hid it....but eventually I suspected it, he continued to lie, but recently opened up about it before all of the drama went down between his friend and I. He has let go of his religion, denies it, smokes pot every day, or just about, and is a complete jerk when he hasn't had it, and he was going out to the bar often with OW, although he claims now that he does not. Oh, and I also believe he has a porn addiction, ever since we have been together, it has been what I would say is the main source of our big arguments and fighting in our marriage....

 

daily I would catch him on the computer or with a magazine, even when I'd be home in the next room....he could never stop, even though he saw how much it hurt me, I cried so much over it and it caused us to fight so much, but he always defended his actions and would never stop no matter how much he saw that it hurt me. Even now he still does it, I find it in the history log on our computer, and I have discovered that he has been masturbating to porn during the evening when I am at work while he is in our home babysitting our daughter....he puts her in the next room in front of the TV to do this.....

 

Anyway, I love my H very much and want to see him change his ways and turn his life around, but he refuses to see that he is doing anything wrong....I have seen him be a much better person than what he is being right now and right now I feel like he's sold his soul to the devil himself....he refuses to come back and give our marriage another chance despite all of the ways that I have tried to make him see how important his family should and used to be to him, and how I think we owe it to our daughter to give it one last try, including marriage counseling (which we should have tried long ago).

 

He tells me he doesn't believe that I have made any changes (I have....big time....I have taken this situation and this time apart from him to improve myself and make myself be a better person and I see now that there are so many ways that I could have treated my H differently to truly love him and treat him that way) but he refuses to believe that I have changed and refuses to give me another chance...I know he has plenty of changes to make himself....

 

I just feel like if he wouldn't be with OW that things would be much easier. He has told me, and his mother, that if he wasn't with the OW, that he would 'probably' be back here with me and our daughter trying to make things work. This was said a couple weeks ago, and now when I bring it up, he tries to say he never said that.

 

Additionally, about a month ago, H slept with me but afterwards acted very upset over the fact that he had 'cheated' on OW with me.....but after the act, in conversation with me he did admit to me that a part of him still loves me....he also told the therapist during our session that he still cares about me very much...and I know my H and I just KNOW that he must still feel for me, I mean only a few months ago, he was the one begging me to stay and he was making lists of ways we could work on our marriage, and now this.....

 

I know pride is one issue because pretty much all his friends want him to leave me....and they think OW is cooler because she is a party girl.....H has told me on several occassions that he and her are more compatible because 'she smokes too and she understands'....I feel like he just feels like he can't give me another chance, he has said that he can't "let himself" come back to me and try to work on things...I know he must miss the 3 of us being a family together and misses being an everyday part of our daughter's life.....and i feel like he won't let himself come back because he will think he is letting me 'win' and letting me get what I want, because he knows I am not moving on at all and he knows I only want him to come back....

 

I just don't know what to do and am so hurt and confused....all I want is for him to walk through the door and tell me that he's going to give it another shot....but every time we see each other, which is just about every night when I get home from work, he watches our daughter for about an hour each night after my mom drops her off her (when H gets done at his job), but every time he ends up raising his voice to me and starts arguing with me, and every time I remain calm and civil and nice, but he just blows up....so I have decided to try to put some distance between us, my daughter and I are going out of state for 3 weeks and staying with my Grandpa....more so I am going because I really need to get away from the life that is mine every day right now.....

 

I am constantly hearing about people seeing my H and OW out together, etc...it has become too much for me to handle and I need to get away and focus on my daughter, who unfortunately has been suffering in this because I can't devote the time and attention to her that I should, due to all of this......but H thinks I am going away to 'piss him off' and to take his daughter away from him, which is simply not true. I am however hoping that during the time away that he might start to think about things differently, although I am very doubtful that that will happen. Although the OW is a huge obstacle in the way of him coming back, I also think it is largely due to him thinking he just can't trust me again...although I am trying to prove to him that he can....he asked me after he slept with me to not say anything to anyone, particularly the OW, and he said that if I do, then he will know he truly can't trust me.

 

I did agree that I would not say anything, so I haven't, even though it's really hard to keep my mouth shut, I do want to prove to my H that he can trust me, but I know that will take much more than that and will take time and effort....I just don't know what I can or should be doing to try to get him to give our family another chance....I refuse to sign divorce papers, so it will go for 2 years before anything can be done, so I am hoping that in those 2 years that he and OW will split or that he will just have a change of heart.....

 

I do know that I have changed for the better as a result of all of this and will continue to be that way whether he comes back or not, but, I just wish that he would recognize that and that he would put his daughter's happiness first and just give us all one more chance at happiness together...

 

Thanks if you read this book of a post, my apologies in advance for rambling and probably being somewhat confusing, I just needed to get this out and hopefully someone can offer some advice or insight

[confusedandhurt2]

Wanted to say that the above post is me, not sure why it came up as "guest". ?? I'm new and still getting used to navigating this forum.

 

I talked with my H tonight, he was here for a couple hours, he thought I had to work tonight so he came here after work because he thought he had to watch our daughter. So anyway he stayed then and ate dinner with us and helped me put our daughter to bed and stuck around and talked to me for a little while because I wanted to.

 

Tonight he told me that I never made him feel like 'a man', and that I always thought I was superior to him - he said that I should belong in the kitchen, cooking, cleaning, taking care of the house, and that he is superior because he is the man. He said he cares about what HE wants and he wants to do what HE wants WHEN he wants and that he doesn't want to have to give attention to his SO when he doesn't want to...meaning play video games for ridiculously long amounts of time instead of taking a break from them to take our daughter to the park with me....or instead of spending time with me....meaning jerking off to porn countless times a day behind my back instead of being with me....etc....these are things that he has done for the past several years.

 

He said he is a f-ed up person but that that is who he is. He said he did a lot of f-ed up stuff to me (this is his language) and that he knows he did...he also said there is a lot that I don't even know about (which I think is pretty much BS to a point - I am 99% certain he never cheated before this current OW...he would have thrown that in my face by this point ). He said that right now he isn't doing any drugs but that it doesn't mean he won't at sometime in the future...so basically he's isn't 'not doing them' right now because he thinks they are wrong or a bad example for his daughter, but because he is just personally bored and sick of it, so it's like he's taking a break from it but when he decides he wants to do them again, he will.

 

I asked him about the porn addiction and he did not say "yes it is a problem" but he did not deny it either, and once a few weeks ago in conversation he did say "...and so what if I have a problem...". So it's like he is okay with the fact that he has an addiction to porn. He doesn't want help with it. He wants to continue going about it and being addicted to it. Even if it is damaging to the relationship he is in. He says he'll keep moving onto the next relationship.

 

I just don't understand why this man does not want to be a better person than this. I know he loves his daughter.....well, in his terms of 'love' - which I am greatly questioning whether he even really knows what it is or how to love properly......but he won't even try to make himself a better example even for her and her future well-being. He is just so stuck on being a 'bad person' and he says if he came back that I would be cool for awhile and would let him get away with all of these things, but that eventually I'd get sick of pretending they didn't bother me and then we'd start to fight again...he says he will NOT be put through therapy for his addictions.....I just don't understand how the man that I love and have been with for almost 7 years has surrendered himself to being this way. I have seen him be a respectable, loving, 'GOOD' person who had faith in God and wanted to do right...I think that went out the window awhile ago, but I just don't understand.........

 

ETA, I also wanted to ask....why is it that the biggest mistake in trying to get your spouse to come back is crying/begging/pleading/etc....?? I guess what I am wondering is what is the best thing I can do and the best way to handle myself right now to have the best chance of him deciding to come back and give this marriage another chance? He keeps telling me to move on, that he wants me to move on...go out and get with another man....etc.....but I know that I am not ready for that, nor do I want it at all, and even if I did do it for any reason, I am afraid that IF he ever would want to work things out, if he knew or asked me and found out that I'd been with someone else, it would make him change his mind about coming back.

[jmargel]

I know this is something you don't want to hear but at least at this point no matter what you do, you won't get him back. And in all reality you don't want him back (IMO).

 

I mean when you were with him, what exactly were you getting out of the marriage? Everything looks so negative between you two, and yes you may love him but it takes ALOT more than just love to make a relationship work.

Even before the kiss from this OM you admitted that you two fight alot, etc..

 

You cheating had one thing to do with this marriage failing but another part is from his side. His maturity level is lacking alot. As long as he remains to act like a child, and by reading what you wrote he wants to stay this way then nothing good will come out in the end by trying to convince him to stay with you. Even if you were able to convince him, you will constantly be on edge wondering if he's going to stray on you with this OW or another chick. You won't be able to work on your marriage due to all of this going on, and more importantly he does NOT want to work on this marriage.

 

You can't make someone *want* something or someone. You have to chalk this up to an experience and learn from it. It's time to start focusing on you and your daughter and setting short-term goals for yourself and her.

 

You have become consumed by this OW, and the problem does not lay with her. It lays with him, and only he can work on himself.

[Ladyjane14]

Tonight he told me that I never made him feel like 'a man', and that I always thought I was superior to him - he said that I should belong in the kitchen, cooking, cleaning, taking care of the house, and that he is superior because he is the man. He said he cares about what HE wants and he wants to do what HE wants WHEN he wants and that he doesn't want to have to give attention to his SO when he doesn't want to...meaning play video games for ridiculously long amounts of time instead of taking a break from them to take our daughter to the park with me....or instead of spending time with me....meaning jerking off to porn countless times a day behind my back instead of being with me....etc....these are things that he has done for the

past several years.

 

So, why exactly is it that you want this clown back?

 

e said he is a f-ed up person but that that is who he is. He said he did a lot of f-ed up stuff to me (this is his language) and that he knows he did...he also said there is a lot that I don't even know about (which I think is pretty much BS to a point - I am 99% certain he never cheated before this current OW...he would have thrown that in my face by this point ). He said that right now he isn't doing any drugs but that it doesn't mean he won't at sometime in the future...so basically he's isn't 'not doing them' right now because he thinks they are wrong or a bad example for his daughter, but because he is just personally bored and sick of it, so it's like he's taking a break from it but when he decides he wants to do them again, he will.

 

I asked him about the porn addiction and he did not say "yes it is a problem" but he did not deny it either, and once a few weeks ago in conversation he did say "...and so what if I have a problem...". So it's like he is okay with the fact that he has an addiction to porn. He doesn't want help with it. He wants to continue going about it and being addicted to it. Even if it is damaging to the relationship he is in. He says he'll keep moving onto the next relationship.

 

He is just so stuck on being a 'bad person' and he says if he came back that I would be cool for awhile and would let him get away with all of these things, but that eventually I'd get sick of pretending they didn't bother me and then we'd start to fight again...he says he will NOT be put through therapy for his addictions.....I just don't understand how the man that I love and have been with for almost 7 years has surrendered himself to being this way. I have seen him be a respectable, loving, 'GOOD' person who had faith in God and wanted to do right...I think that went out the window awhile ago, but I just don't understand.........

 

This is all a series of justifications in why it's okay for him to continue on being immature. If he's a "bad person"... better behavior shouldn't be expected of him, right?

He's just using his "badness" as another rationalization to support his affair. As things stand now, he doesn't have to take any responsibility for his wife and child, and he's going to say whatever it takes to stay out of what he probably perceives as a "trap".

 

He's exactly right about one thing... If he returns to the marriage, you would eventually expect him to behave like a grown up. And he doesn't wanna.

 

This guy is just a little boy playing at being a man.

 

Look, you made some bad mistakes. You got drunk and let a guy kiss you, and your subsequent "friendship" with him probably qualifies as an EA (Emotional Affair). It was inappropriate due to the secrecy and flirting involved. I hope you learned some things.. most especially not to drink to the point of inebriation.

 

All that said.... your husband's response was to shack up with a bar-fly for two months and counting. Sorry, but THAT sounds like a bit of over-kill. Not quite a golden moment in terms of emotional maturity, is it?

 

I think it's important to ask yourself... If you hadn't made the mistakes that you made, would his current behavior be okay with you?

I kind of doubt it.

 

You can't change the past. You can only change the present. Further, you can only change YOU, not anybody else. I think it's obvious that you're feeling really bad about what happened. You've been very forthcoming in your posts. But, I think you need to get off your own back at this point and look at the realities of the situation. If you will forgive yourself for what happened and observe your husband's behavior as SEPARATE from the preceding events... I think you'll begin to see that as things stand today, he's NOT good enough for you and your daughter.

 

He's an immature party-boy who, based on the earlier mistakes of his partner, has given himself permission to do whatever he pleases rather than live up to his responsibilities. He apparently cares more about pot and porn than he does about providing an intact family for his child.

Quite frankly, I think you'd be making a mistake to take him back unless he's willing to grow up and man-up. I don't think you're in a position to ALLOW him to come back yet. He needs to make some changes, otherwise you'll be going through this crap every time you hit a bump in the road.

 

....why is it that the biggest mistake in trying to get your spouse to come back is crying/begging/pleading/etc....??

 

Because if you CHASE... they run.

Also, there's no impetus for him to come back when he's able to get his ENs (emotional needs) met by both YOU and an OW.

 

I guess what I am wondering is what is the best thing I can do and the best way to handle myself right now to have the best chance of him deciding to come back and give this marriage another chance?

 

If I were you, I think I'd establish some boundaries. For starters, he needs to NOT be in your house every day bad-mouthing you.

 

He needs "a peek through the window of divorce". If you two were divorced, he wouldn't be welcome to come and go as he pleases in your home. He'd be paying child-support, and he'd be responsible for taking care of his child on his visitation days. Further, your business would no longer be HIS business. He would have NO RIGHT to talk to you like a dog or try to tell you what to do.

 

I think you'd do well to start AGREEING with him on some things. If he tells you he's a "bad person".... agree with him. Tell him straight up, "Yeah, you're not good enough for me. I can see that now". If he says he's going to continue to smoke dope and watch porn, tell him.. "Fine by me, it's not my business as long as you keep that sh*t away from my daughter".

 

Then... show him some 180's and let him wonder if you're running out of patience with him.

Here's a list from Michelle Weiner Davis' book Divorce Busting. You can get more information on her website.

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or

implore!

2. No frequent phone calls

3. Do not point out good points in marriage

4. Do not follow him around the house

5. Do not encourage talk about the future

6. Do not ask for help from family members

7. Do not ask for reassurances

8. Do not buy gifts

9. Do not schedule dates together

10. Do not spy on spouse

11. Do not say "I Love You"

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get

busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,

etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start

the conversation) be scarce or short on words

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his

whereabouts, ASK NOTHING

17. You need to make your partner think that you have

had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you

are going to move on with your life, with or without

your spouse

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull

back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more

important, realize what he will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show

your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him

someone he would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on

hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which

may be a while)

21. Never lose your cool

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic

23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes

their feelings stronger)

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really

saying to you

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you

want to speak out

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &

focus on all the other parts of your life that are not

in turmoil)

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest

CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any

words you can say or write

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you

are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with

your spouse

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than

50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in

absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad

you feel

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes

 

I think this guy needs to hear the clock ticking. Eventually, you WILL run out of gas and you won't want him anymore. Giving him "a peek through the window of divorce" will give him an opportunity to reevaluate his position BEFORE it's too late.

[confusedandhurt2]

So, why exactly is it that you want this clown back?

 

So, why exactly is it that you want this clown back?

 

Well I have seen him be so much better of a person...times when he wasn't into any of this crap (minus the porn, which like I said, I believe is an addiction)...but it's like he is conflicted as a person....I really believe deep down inside he knows what is right, what he should be doing, how he should be living his life....but for some reason he is too weak or I dont' know what, but he gets on this path of doing 'bad things' and then tells himself and everyone that that's who he is....I tell him that I really believe if he came back and we made a commitment to working on the marriage and followed through with a plan to effectively do that, that things could be worked out. He says while I may say I know that, he doesn't know that...and I tell him, well, you don't know until you try. I asked him once what he thought he had to lose by just coming back home and trying to make things work, really trying this time - and he said the "OW". I think he's afraid that if he comes back and things don't work out, then he will have lost her as well and he will have nothing and honestly I think he is petrified of being alone...now not that any of this is right (him being scared of losing OW and not wanting to come back here and try for that reason), but he has said many times that if he weren't with her, that he'd probably be back here trying to work on the marriage. ??????

 

As for me, I most definitely have learned not to make the same mistakes, and also not to allow myself to be in a position where I am more vulnerable to allow things to happen like that (i.e., the drinking)

 

As far as showing him a peek through the window of divorce....I have thought about trying this. I have told him that if we really end up actually divorced, that he will NOT see his daughter every day as he does now, that he will not be able to come and go as he pleases, make use of my computer and internet, eat meals here, etc. etc....I have even said to him about "what if the person that I would end up being with would need to move out of state for a job or some other reason?".....also brought up to him about having to split holidays, etc....and I even tried the whole 'ignoring him thing' (no phone calls, etc), and tried not to say more than "bye" to him when coming home from work to relieve him of watching our daughter....the one night that I was doing this, he ended up coming back into the house and asking me why I was 'ignoring him'.

 

But I guess I am afraid of cutting him off....of showing him the window of divorce (not afraid of talking about it, but actually cutting him off, ignoring him, etc, is so much harder)....Because I guess I am afraid that doing that will make it all the easier for him to continue living with OW and 'moving on' with her. I'm too chicken to try it I guess. But there will be a bit of a dose of it coming soon, as my daughter and I leave for almost a month's long vacation out of state, visiting with some family, getting a breath of fresh air from all of this which has me such a mess....So he will be without seeing either of us for that period of time. I plan on having as little contact as possible with him....I am sure he will want to call sometimes to talk to our daughter or say goodnight to her, etc....and I know it will be hard for me to not try to get into conversation with him again about why we should try to work on improving our marriage to save it instead of throwing it away.

 

Also, cutting him off from coming and going as he pleases, seeing us every day, taking him for child support, etc, only ticks him off in a big way and makes him become so irate that he gets back into the habit of constantly yelling at me and being a jerk.....

 

With that said, tonight he was here with me (came to help me get luggage out of the attic) and he was nice the whole time, we talked, laughed, enjoyed each other's company, even talked about the whole situation, without yelling/fighting.....and that is when I start to feel like thigns might begin to improve......but if I were to cut him off, start ignoring him, etc, he'd flare up and things would be horrible again.

 

He flipped his lid when I mentioned to him about taking him for child support.....and I told him, well, that's a part of this whole process that you say you want (separation/divorce).....I told him I wanted to have it all set up so that neither of us needed to worry about how much and when/etc. that he would be giving me. Now, he has been good with this, at least in my opinion...he still pays my electric bill and trash bill, and has given me 3 checks over the 2 month time period which I am certain would be well more than what he would be required to give me at this point....now, he will soon be graduating college and will be back to working full time, so then things will be different. But I suppose he got upset because I was talking about taking him for child support and he is giving me money and paying those two bills.....he said he doesn't want to have to waste his time to go into domestics and 'have them treat him like an a** because he is the man and not the woman'. I think he views me taking him for support as me being a b**** and trying to sc**w him over for as much money as possible (this is how he actually put it)....he says 'oh, you'll not only try to take me for child support, but for spousal support to, you'll try to suck me dry of every penny that you can', and really it just isn't like that, I mean, I can't make him give more than what domestics says he is responsible for and I have tried to explain that to him.

 

And as for your question of whether I would be this accepting of his behaviors if I had not made the mistakes in the past that I have.....well, I suppose maybe not to this extent, but...the fact is that I DID make those mistakes...but even if I hadn't, and he were doing this, I still think that I would want to forgive and rebuild the relationship instead of giving up.

 

also wanted to say thank you for your reply, I greatly appreciate any insight or advice. and also, I am unsure of how to quote separate sections of a user's post like you did to mine....I wanted to do that to answer some of the questions you asked, but I didnt' know how to quote more than one section ??

[Gunny376]

I am unsure of how to quote separate sections of a user's post like you did to mine....I wanted to do that to answer some of the questions you asked, but I didnt' know how to quote more than one section ??

 

1. Hit the reply button

2. Scroll down to the section that you want to quote ~ highlight it

3. Go to edit and select copy, or hit ctrl-C on your keyboard

4. Go to edit and select paste, or hit ctril-p on your keyboard

5. In the reply box, abouve you'll see some icons, the third one from the right is the "Wrap

tags arond selected text ~ (put your cursor on it, and give it half a sec)

6. Again ~ highlight the text you've pasted, and click on the third icon from the right

[Gunny376]

Let me get this straight?!

 

Your husband is living with another women, sleeping in her house, in her bed, "sleeping" with her, doing crack, smoking pot, laying out with his buddies, hauling this OW all over town in and out of bars in front of everybody ~ and you want this azzhole back?

 

When most people get married they're typically are marrying three people.

 

The person they think they're marrying

The person they're actually marrying

And, the person that comes about as a result of having been married to you!

 

A fourth potential person is the person is the person you meet in divorce court ~ and you're going to be sitting there shaking your head thinking ~ WTF? I can't believe that's the same person I've been married to all these years.

 

This guy is immature, ill-responsiible, un-dependable and you think he's good husband and Daddy material? To add insult to injury ~ he's playing your for a fool, and playing you out on a string. While he's off scroggin the other woman, he's got you hanging on a string, just in case!

 

He's telling you everything that you need to know ~ when he says he'd probally would be with you if it weren't for the OW ~ now lets flip that ~ he'll have his little happy azz back over your place in a heart beat ~ just as soon as the OW gets tired of him, and is threw playing with him.

 

What are you chopped liver? And, when, where and how did you get it into your brain housing group that the best you deserve in life is some crack-head, pot head, that spends all of his time spanking the monkey to porn?

 

Why don't you deserve a guy, that going to love you, cherish you, relish you, be passionate with you, be a partner with you, who's going to put you before porn, drinking, drugs, his drinking buddies, his own selfish personal wants and needs ~ who's willing to scarifice for you ~ and maybe even bleed a little for you.

 

He's trying to flip this on you ~ and if he'd been taking care of business at home ~ you wouldn't have been so susceptable and weak-minded when it came to his friend advances on you.

 

I've seen it over 20 years in the Marines with guys being stationed over-seas, and leaving their wives and girlfriends. If he was taking care of his business at the house like he was suppose to 24/7/365 there's no way their wives/GF's would cheat. Even if you managed to get them off, all they want to do is sit around and talk about how wonderful he is. And, I've been overseas, and the reverse is true.

 

And, what's this talk about your "taking him" for child support. As a man that's paid thousand upon thousands, upon thousands in child support I can assure you its not bank robbery ~ its his freaking obligation. Parenting doesn't just end at conception you know.

 

He pays the trash bill and the electric bill, and gave you three, count them, three checks since he moved in with the other woman. Whooooohoooooo! Now there's a man for you, he's really suffering and scarificing isn't he! Nothing buy blood, sweat and tears!

 

You're not longing for the guy you once think he was, you're longing for the guy that you thought he was ~ but he can't tote the note ~ his realself is coming out in 'spades'!

 

Love? News flash for you! Its entirely possible to be so-called "in love" with the very one person is absolutely the worse for you mentally, emotionally, pyscohologically, spiritually, financially, and physcially in all of the world. There are men and women getting beaten, stabbed, shot, mained and killed 24/7 by people who they love and who love them. Its entirely possible to be in love with someone you don't even like.

 

What's this guy got that the other 3.6 billion other men on the planet don't have? What's this guy got that you can't get just as much of ~ if not more, just as good as ~ if not better from some other guy ~ and the real question is ~ "Why don't you think you deserve it!"

 

Don't ever ~ and I do mean never. ever beg someone to love you ~ or to love you back. This guy is dis-respecting you, your daughter, your marriage, your vows.

 

Begging, pleading, crying, whinnig, imploring doesn't work. Think of the nerdest most pathetic guy that ever tried to get you to go out with them, that just begged, pleaded, whinned, cried, pouted ~ pathetic wasn't it!

 

This guy wants it freedom ~ I'd be making his dreams a reality. I wouldn't just showing him a "window of divorce" you need to give him his hat and show him the freaking door! Tell him to hit the road, and not to come back. Don't just go NC, turn into a iceberg. Then see who's doing the whinning, the crying, the pleading, the begging, the pouting.

 

Oh! He'll be madder than a Bobcat that just got shaved with a rusty razor and given an rubbing alcohol bath ~ little boys are like that when they don't get their way!

 

Dump this clown like a bad habit, pull yourself togehter, give yourself some healing time, get you head and azz wired back together, and then go find yourself a real man.

 

This is my BF; he does all this and more. This should be a checklist for all relationships......

 

Im the guy who will text you every single morning and tell you good morning and every single night to tell you sweet dreams.

 

Im the guy who will hold you when you're crying and wipe away your tears.

 

Im the guy who still thinks you're beautiful with no makeup on, wearing sweats and a big t-shirt.

 

Im the guy who won't pressure you to do things you dont want to.

 

Im the guy who will show up at your house with soup and a movie when you aren't feeling well.

 

Im the guy who kisses you on the forehead.

 

I'm the guy who'll randomly tickle you just to hear you giggle.

 

Im the guy who doesnt kiss and tell.

 

Im the guy who actually listens to you when you talk.

 

Im the guy who's excited all day because im looking forward to our date that night.

 

Im the guy who is content to just be able to hold you and wants nothing more.

 

I'm the guy who can't help but smile when you walk into the room.

 

I'm the guy who'll say i love you first because i'm not afraid to say it.

 

Im the guy who's perfectly content with staying in and watching movies and cuddling.

 

Im the guy who won't lie to you about where he's going or where he's been or who he's been with.

 

Im the guy who gets butterflies when he hears your name.

 

I'm the guy who's not afraid to tell his friends he loves you.

 

Im the guy who doesnt mess with other girls when i have you.

 

Im the guy who doesn't care about your imperfections and loves you more for them.

 

I'm the guy who will hold you while we watch the sunset.

 

I'M THE GUY WHO REALLY WANTS TO MAKE YOU THE HAPPIEST GIRL IN THE WORLD

 

Orginally posted by Lor

 

You might want to read Lor's thread:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=98741&page=7

 

I can't find her orginal thread ~ but she of all people can tell you why begging, pleading, etc doesn't work. Here's her list of posts:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/search.php?searchid=1460989&pp=25

 

She use to be here quite a bit, and posted often ~ but between work, the kids, and being with a real man, she's too busy being HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ladyjane14]

Well I have seen him be so much better of a person...times when he wasn't into any of this crap (minus the porn, which like I said, I believe is an addiction)...but it's like he is conflicted as a

person....I really believe deep down inside he knows what is right, what he should be doing, how he should be living his life....but for some reason he is too weak or I dont' know what, but he gets on this path of doing 'bad things' and then tells himself and everyone that that's who he is....I tell him that I really believe if he came back and we made a commitment to working on the marriage and followed through with a plan to effectively do that, that things could be worked out. He says while I may say I know that, he doesn't know that...and I tell him, well, you don't know until you try. I asked him once what he thought he had to lose by just coming back home and trying to make things work, really trying this time - and he said the "OW". I think he's afraid that if he comes back and things don't work out, then he will have lost her as well and he will have nothing and honestly I think he is petrified of being alone...now not that any of this is right (him being scared of losing OW and not wanting to come back here and try for that reason), but he has said many times that if he weren't with her, that he'd probably be back here trying to work on the marriage. ??????

 

Honey, you're speculating quite a bit on what he's thinking and what he means. You know, sometimes when you ask a man what he's thinking about, and he says "nothing"... THAT's what he's really thinking about... NOTHING. Generally speaking, men tend to say things in a more literal way. IOW, if you're really listening, you're going to hear the facts quite plainly.

 

Problem is... often enough, when we translate a male message through our 'female lens' it doesn't make sense to us. Take the above example of when a man tells you he's thinking about "nothing". That's hard for us to believe, because usually we women have at least a little something going on in our busy brains. So we think he's holding back, but actually... he's hasn't got a thought in his head at that particular moment.

 

My point is, that you can't make your decisions based on assumptions. If he says to you that he's not coming back because he wants to "party" and be with OW, you can't twist those words into something more meaningful just because that's what you'd rather hear.

 

I remember when I was a teenager, I had this boyfriend. He was musically talented, funny, and rock-star gorgeous. I couldn't BELIEVE that he was interested in ME. And you know what?.... he really wasn't. He was only interested in selected bits of me.

 

It turned out the guy was about as deep as a postage stamp. But it took me FOREVER to see it because I sooooo wanted him to be more than what he was. I took his words and actions and ran them through my own 'meaning mill'. I twisted and pulled 'til I could see what I wanted to see rather than what was. And like you, I relied heavily on times when he had treated me better.

 

This guy has told you all you need to know in alot of ways. But you're not listening because you WANT it to be something else.

 

....the one night that I was doing this, he ended up coming back into the house and asking me why I was 'ignoring him'.

 

EXACTLY.

He got off his stupid ass and came back into the house to find out. He was curious. He noticed you slipping away from him emotionally.

 

... I guess I am afraid that doing that will make it all the easier for him to continue living with OW and 'moving on' with her. I'm too chicken to try it I guess.

 

He's ALREADY "moved on" with her, kiddo. He's living in her house and spending his money on her. And as long as he is able to have his cake and eat it too.... he's gonna EAT CAKE.

 

There's no incentive for him to make any changes. He hasn't lost anything. You're still sitting right on the shelf where he left you, just in case he decides he wants you back. Meantime, he's doing whatever he pleases whenever he pleases.

 

Also, cutting him off from coming and going as he pleases, seeing us every day, taking him for child support, etc, only ticks him off in a big way and makes him become so irate that he gets back into the habit of constantly yelling at me and being a jerk.....

 

Do you think this is how you'll want to be living your life five years from now? The ex-husband talking to you like a dog whenever he's "irate", coming and going through your home like he lives there, paying support for his child on the basis of when he feels like it?

 

Look, he has no RIGHT to yell at you. He's no better than a stranger off the street right now. And you know what else? ... Part of the hidden beauty of divorce is that if your ex is a "jerk", you don't have to put up with his sorry ass every day.

 

With that said, tonight he was here with me (came to help me get luggage out of the attic) and he was nice the whole time, we talked, laughed, enjoyed each other's company, even talked about the whole situation, without yelling/fighting.....and that is when I start to feel like thigns might begin to improve......but if I were to cut him off, start ignoring him, etc, he'd flare up and things would be horrible again.

 

He's very agreeable when things are going his way, huh? Just as long as you don't make any objections to his disrespect of you or your home he's a nice guy? I can't say I'm really surprised by that.

 

He flipped his lid when I mentioned to him about taking him for child support.....and I told him, well, that's a part of this whole process that you say you want (separation/divorce).....I told him I wanted to have it all set up so that neither of us needed to worry about how much and when/etc. that he would be giving me.

 

You're not "taking him" for anything by asking that he set up regular support payments for his child. I agree with Gunny on that. This guy is lawfully responsible for seeing to that baby's needs. And YOU should be able to make a budget and KNOW what monies are available. That's not asking too much.

 

You realize that with the exception of the three measly payments he's made to you, he's spending the marital assets on his party lifestyle with OW, don't you? These are marital assets still, money that could potentially be going to savings. And he's spending these assets on a bar-fly.

 

Hell, he'd be paying me EVERY penny he owed me BY LAW, if I were you. And that INCLUDES spousal support if I could get it. If I could put that money into savings for my child rather than see it wasted on a floozy... you betcha I would.

 

And as for your question of whether I would be this accepting of his behaviors if I had not made the mistakes in the past that I have.....well, I suppose maybe not to this extent, but...the fact is that I DID make those mistakes...but even if I hadn't, and he were doing this, I still think that I would want to forgive and rebuild the relationship instead of giving up.

 

Honey, what you did in the past and what he's doing now are TWO SEPARATE things. I know you feel bad, and that you would've made emotional restitution to him if you could. But he CHOSE not to allow that. Your apologies were NOT accepted. Case closed.

 

Instead, he chose to abandon the marriage and engage in a revenge affair. Two wrongs don't make a right, sweetie.

 

He's just as WRONG now as you were then. Moreso even. When push comes to shove, all you did was kiss a guy. He's used that as license to abandon ALL of his family responsibilities and to treat you, his wife and the mother of his child, like a second-class citizen.

 

This guy is a LOSER, not worth his salt. He abuses illicit drugs, alcohol, porn, and YOU.

 

Verbal abuse is NOT okay.

 

I want you to really THINK about this for a minute.... Your daughter is only four right now and she can't do a whole lot to thwart him. But if he thinks it's alright for him to verbally debase her mother, what's to stop him from eventually turning that negative energy on her?

 

Eventually, she'll be big enough to give him some sass. Will he also expect HER to "belong in the kitchen, cooking, cleaning, taking care of the house"? Will he teach her that her future mate with be "superior because he is the man"?

 

Please THINK about what you're giving up when you allow a man to disrespect you like this. Think about the model that you're setting before your daughter. Think about the empty YEARS stretched out before you spent on a man who treats you like dirt.

 

I've got another thread for you to read. This is one of Antha's threads. She also had a hard time letting go of a man who was treating her badly. I think that if you'll look at her story and apply some of the empathy you'll feel for her to yourself... maybe you'll realize that you deserve better than what you've been offered.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t106136/

 

Bottom line... As hard as it is, and even if it means losing the marriage, you've GOT to set some boundaries. This guy is NOT good enough for you or your daughter as he is today. Unless he's willing to grow up and man-up, you're BOTH better off without him.

[MoonGirl]

confusedandhurt2,

 

Our situations are very different, but I know what it's like to love and want a man who mistreats you. It's an emotional rollercoaster.

 

Many people here have given you wonderful advice. I agree with them... your husband is legally required to pay child support. It is his OBLIGATION. Stop letting your husband intimidate you because you do not deserve to be mistreated.

 

I know you're afraid to loose your husband, but it sounds like being alone would be FAR better than being with him. And if you're afraid you won't ever meet another man who will love you - that's just simply not true. Like Gunny said - there are billions of men, and many of them will treat you MUCH better than your husband does.

 

 

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. — Eleanor Roosevelt

[lovely01]

please dont get mad but god it sounds like he has no respect for women at all. the way he treats you makes me sick. you deserve so much better. regardless of what happened with his friend . i agree with everyone else give him a taste of a divorce. perfect time when you go out of town. when or if he calls to talk to your daughter only do that dont talk to him afterwards. you cant help a boy become a man he has to want to be a man. and he has to understand that this is not how a man would treat a women. you deserve someone who will treat you with love with kind words. keep your head up and keep this in mind your daughter is the most important thing regardless of how you feel your daughter is hurting alot more.

[Gunny376]

When it comes to child support, what some women do is make a non-binding verbal agreement for the man to pay her child support in cash over the course of time, then comes "Judgement Day" they take the idiot to court, bat those pretty baby blues at the judge and say, "Why, no your Honor, he's not paid me a single dime in child support in all these many, many years!" Then its slam~! Out comes Mr. Reality out of the closet with a Louville Slugger wearing that ass out!"

 

So its actually in the best interest of any man to make his legally obligated child support payment through the court system just to keep the record straight.

 

And, if you worked while supporting him thorugh college ~ and your due spousal support ~ Oh well?! Too bad, too sad! Wahhhhhh! Must suck to be him (And this is coming from a guy who's generally against spousal support!)

 

Lady Jane's telling you the truth ~ she's just more refined at it, but then again she went to Little Miss Muffet's Finishing School, and I didn't!

[AHIWON]

The relationship as described by the OP is a huge mess. My feeling is that can not be fixed and to walk away from it. Someone needs to stick a spork in it.

[Gunny376]

Well "G" (aka Guest ~ orginal poster) I was up, out and about running around town paying some bills, (those folks don't like me carrying their money around for too long ) and as I was toolin' around in the rain, (we're under an hurricanader watch) I got to thinking about your orginal post.

 

Lets reframe your sit, shall we. Flash forward ten, fifitten, twenty years from now. You're at the house, on a cold, windy March day, in comes the DD, she's all excited, and grining like a briair eating mule. She say, "Mom! I've meet the most wonderful guy ~ the love of my life that I want to spend the rest of my days with, never mind that he's selfish, self-centered, immature, ill-responsibile, a crack head, a pot head, lays out all hours of the night with his drinking buddies, living with another woman ~ but he's really nice and sweet to me some days! Mom, I love him!" :eek: :eek:

 

What would you say to her?! :sick: :sick: & :eek: :eek: & :mad: :mad:

[MoonGirl]

Gunny,

 

Superb thought. It is the argument against "staying for the kids," which is terribly valid in this situation.

 

My new philosophy: if you don't want your son to grow up to be just like him or your daughter to grow up and marry someone just like him, GET RID OF HIM!

[confusedandhurt2]

 

Your husband is living with another women, sleeping in her house, in her bed, "sleeping" with her, doing crack, smoking pot, laying out with his buddies, hauling this OW all over town in and out of bars in front of everybody ~ and you want this azzhole back?

 

All of the above are true minus the crack (well, you'd think he was, but..) So yes, he is living with another woman, sleeping in her house, her bed, "with" her, hauling her around town in front of everyone, and smoking pot - although he says has stopped 'for now' but also said in the same sentence that it doesn't mean he won't start up again once he becomes "un-bored" with it He justifies the living with her, sleeping with her, etc, by saying "but we are SEPARATED and I want a divorce, I can't help that you won't sign".

 

What are you chopped liver? And, when, where and how did you get it into your brain housing group that the best you deserve in life is some crack-head, pot head, that spends all of his time spanking the monkey to porn?

 

Why don't you deserve a guy, that going to love you, cherish you, relish you, be passionate with you, be a partner with you, who's going to put you before porn, drinking, drugs, his drinking buddies, his own selfish personal wants and needs ~ who's willing to scarifice for you ~ and maybe even bleed a little for you.

 

Well although I would definitely not say that my self esteem is wonderful, I definitely do not think that I am chopped liver. Everywhere I go I have guys giving me pickup lines, staring at me, talking about me, etc - and anyone will tell you that there is no way my husband left me because the OW is better looking. I hate typing that as it makes me sound perhaps stuck on myself though and really I am not. One of my best friends made me make a list the other day of things that are good about myself and together we worked on it a little and it included "smart, funny, beautiful, great mother, caring, honest, great friend" etc....I do know that I can do better - I think. It's scary - and I don't want to have to do it....but I definitely do not think that the only type of person that I can get is the type of person that H is being to me right now.

 

He's trying to flip this on you ~ and if he'd been taking care of business at home ~ you wouldn't have been so susceptable and weak-minded when it came to his friend advances on you.

 

Yes, I can see this and agree - I know what I did was wrong and it shouldn't have happened, BUT I was NOT out seeking someone else to kiss or talk to, and I turned this friend down more than once before anything happened.

 

And, what's this talk about your "taking him" for child support. As a man that's paid thousand upon thousands, upon thousands in child support I can assure you its not bank robbery ~ its his freaking obligation. Parenting doesn't just end at conception you know.

 

I know that I am not being devious or wrong by setting up child support. He views it that way, or at least to me he shows me that he views it that way. And he also said "well it's not like you even need the money, your dad is letting you stay here for free" (we have lived in a home that my dad purchased and he has been charging us only half of what the actual mortgage is - but now because of the situation, he is just letting me off the hook for right now because he knows i'm going through hell....gosh that makes me sound immature that I live in a house that is my dad's....my H and I were homeowners before he started college though) My H knows that whether or not he gives me a penny, our child will be taken care of financially due to my parents. He uses that as an excuse. I have told him that this is OUR CHILD, not my parent's, and that he is just as repsonsible for her as I am, and that he isn't giving 'me' money, he's giving his daughter money, now that's in regards to the child support, but if I can get spousal support and save it in an account for my daughter's future rather than have him have that extra $ every month to blow on pot or alcohol or porn or video games or OW, why shouldn't I take it, right?

 

Oh! He'll be madder than a Bobcat that just got shaved with a rusty razor and given an rubbing alcohol bath ~ little boys are like that when they don't get their way!

 

True...very true. Funny thing is that he says this is all about me, all about what I want....he tries to tell me that I am behaving wrongly because I am not getting 'my way' - I think that's one of the biggest issues....he thinks if he improves upon himself and comes back to me, I am getting 'my way' and he doesn't want to give me that. He thinks I had my chance and blew it (the kiss). He perceives me as the most spoiled person he knows just because when I am in a bind my parents help me out because they can. But I have worked since the age of 15. I was never given extravagant gifts or excess amounts of money to spend by my parents, and ever since H and I have been married, we've barely been able to pay the bills, not saying that is his fault, we both wasted a lot of money on 'wants' in addition to 'needs' and let's face it a young soldier doesn't make much money. But yea, he thinks him coming back is me 'getting my way' and really I think he feels like he's getting revenge on me for hurting him by doing what he is doing now and not giving me 'my way'.

 

Gunny, thank you very much for your reply and thread references, I will check them out

[Salicious Crumb]

Fast forward to about 3.5 months ago...H and I are at a party at H's friend's house....H's friend and I are dancing (H would not dance and H's friend practically forced me onto the dance floor)....all of us are drinking, I am drunk....H's friend takes my hand and dances me toward the steps to go upstairs, I stupidly go along with it and follow him upstairs

 

Ya, that was pretty stupid alright.

 

 

...he leads me into his bedroom and attempts to get me to sleep with him....I turn him down, tell him I don't want to do that to my husband, I don't want to hurt my husband that way, and also ask him why he would want to do that to his GF....as I am telling him these things, H comes upstairs, tries to open the bedroom door, and finds it locked....H's friend locked it....H flips, thinks that things were going on, and rushes off...

 

I run after him explaining the situation....we work through it the next day, he is still really upset and it brought back the hurt of what I did to him before we were married....anyway, H's friend comes over a few days later to talk to me about what happened and at first acts like he just wants to apologize...I make the mistake of telling him that it was hard to say no to him

 

OMFG...no you did not....geez. Woman..what the f#ck is wrong with you?

 

, he takes that and decides to ask if he can kiss me....I tell him no, that it can't be done...well we exchange email addresses so that he can email H and I pictures he took from the party....he and I end up chatting back and forth in emails and things get flirty....he eventually tries to set up a time for me to meet up with him, but I don't get back to him to make plans....same night, H decides to have friends over for a small party, including this particular friend.....

 

<snipping the betrayal part for length reduction>

 

so after I told him about the kiss, we were arguing one morning and I said something about "well then you can leave"

 

oh no...the cheater should always be the one to leave.

 

but didn't really mean it and didn't really want him to leave....he decides to leave however....packs up, moves out into an apartment that one of his single buddies has....I am crushed and shocked but dont' want to look weak or like I 'need' him too much so I dont' say too much and just kinda play along because I'm thinking he isn't really serious.....by this point, I have ended contact with the friend. So only a week or two after DH 'moves out', he spends the night at another W's house and sleeps with her....he comes home at 5am the next morning (was supposed to to watch our daughter while I went out doing christmas-eve early AM shopping)....

 

Hurts doesn't it?

 

I could sense....I just KNEW that he had spent the night with someone....I know my H extremely well and have an uncanny way with stuff like that.....I pretty much call him out on it, and he tells me he spent the night with another woman.....I flip....very hurt, all those emotions....run out of the house and off to one of my best girl friend's to tell her about it....as it ends up, H ends up continuing to see OW and moves in with her, partly out of a lack of another place to stay. At this point I am freaking out...I know that I love my H and our family and don't want us to divorce

 

Is this what you were thinking when you betrayed him?

 

counseling session ends up going horribly....he uses the time to go off about the cheating before he and I were married and about the recent goings-on with his friend and myself, and the therapist pretty much asks him, "so what you are saying is it's too little too late and you're done..." and he agrees. I continue to tell my husband I have changed...that I won't allow myself to become drunk and in situations that lead to what happened....etc....he says it doesn't matter, that he can't trust me, etc..

 

Of course he can't..you proved to him on more than one occasion that he can't trust you...can you blame him?

 

I have tried to get him to see that it is worth working on our marriage for our daughter's sake

 

Well I have to say that is the one thing I would have thought of in that situation...its never good when the kids are caught in the middle.

 

If he did decide to stay with you purely because of your daughter...I wouldn't blame him a bit...I am in a similar situation.

 

Anyway, I love my H very much and want to see him change his ways and turn his life around, but he refuses to see that he is doing anything wrong

 

Hmmm...you cheat on him...he leaves you...what exactly is it that he did wrong here?

 

He tells me he doesn't believe that I have made any changes (I have....big time....I have taken this situation and this time apart from him to improve myself and make myself be a better person and I see now that there are so many ways that I could have treated my H differently to truly love him and treat him that way) but he refuses to believe that I have changed and refuses to give me another chance...I know he has plenty of changes to make himself....

 

Ok...I know you didn't come here to get bashed...and as a BS...its hard not to...but I'll try.

 

Here is the deal...you cheated on him with 3 guys before you were married...he forgave you..started trusting you again...and you turn around and do it to him again. Can you see where nobody would blame him for getting bit twice by you? If ya did it once and never strayed again...ok...I can see it...maybe(even though I believe pretty much once a cheater always a cheater)

 

But this man forgave you the first time...you should have taken THAT 2nd chance and ran with it and never looked back or even THOUGHT of being with another man.

 

Additionally, about a month ago, H slept with me but afterwards acted very upset over the fact that he had 'cheated' on OW with me.....but after the act, in conversation with me he did admit to me that a part of him still loves me

 

Well..my support for him just dropped a notch. Sounds like your cheating rubbed off on him..he should have known better than to betray someone after knowing what it is like to be betrayed.

 

I know pride is one issue because pretty much all his friends want him to leave me....and they think OW is cooler because she is a party girl.....H has told me on several occassions that he and her are more compatible because 'she smokes too and she understands'....I feel like he just feels like he can't give me another chance

 

Well how many chances do you think you deserve....he gave you a chance after finding out you were unfaithful to him the first time...and you do it again???

 

and i feel like he won't let himself come back because he will think he is letting me 'win' and letting me get what I want,

 

Well there is the old "pride" thing going on there...I can't say I don't understand it. For someone to come back to a cheater after already giving them a 2nd chance ....to the betrayed, they feel like all they are doing is setting themselves up to be a doormat. He probably figures that if he comes back to you..the lesson you will learn is that you can cheat on him and he'll forgive you.

 

I am constantly hearing about people seeing my H and OW out together, etc...it has become too much for me to handle and I need to get away and focus on my daughter

 

Have you ever thought about just letting him go and move on with your life?...chalk it up to a lesson learned and not make the same mistake if you find yourself with another man in the future?

 

I also think it is largely due to him thinking he just can't trust me again...although I am trying to prove to him that he can....he asked me after he slept with me to not say anything to anyone, particularly the OW, and he said that if I do, then he will know he truly can't trust me.

 

Well..that is where he screwed up..he shouldn't have slept with you if he really cared about this other woman.

 

I do know that I have changed for the better as a result of all of this

 

Well I hate to say it..but something tells me that is the truth. Its just too bad it took him filing for divorce for you to come to that realization.

 

Thanks if you read this book of a post, my apologies in advance for rambling and probably being somewhat confusing, I just needed to get this out and hopefully someone can offer some advice or insight

 

Ok...i have been harsh in this post, but I think you needed to hear it.

 

So that part is over....so advice on what to do.

 

*sigh*...its a hard call. I am putting myself in your husands shoes and trying to think what, if anything, that you could do to change his mind.

 

It almost sounds like he will not waiver in his stance. I think if it wasn't for the fact that he was betrayed after he swallowed his pride the first time and built trust in you again, it might be possible for you two to get back together....but I just don't know.

 

Maybe you are right..maybe after this trip to your grandfathers place he will realize what he is missing with regards to his daughter....and really...if anything keeps him close and possibly coming back to you...it will be his daughter.

Don't expect that if he ever does come back that you are the main reason. I think alot of men, including myself, try to swallow alot of pride to keep the family together.

 

All I can tell you is, if a miracle happens, and he does take you back...you better not drop the ball ever again.

 

Otherwise I'll go boil me one giant lasagna noodle and slap you in the face with it myself to knock some sense into you

(no I'm not violent and will never hit a woman...just trying practice lightening up a bit)

[Salicious Crumb]

Fast forward to about 3.5 months ago...H and I are at a party at H's friend's house....H's friend and I are dancing (H would not dance and H's friend practically forced me onto the dance floor)....all of us are drinking, I am drunk....H's friend takes my hand and dances me toward the steps to go upstairs, I stupidly go along with it and follow him upstairs

 

Ya, that was pretty stupid alright.

 

 

...he leads me into his bedroom and attempts to get me to sleep with him....I turn him down, tell him I don't want to do that to my husband, I don't want to hurt my husband that way, and also ask him why he would want to do that to his GF....as I am telling him these things, H comes upstairs, tries to open the bedroom door, and finds it locked....H's friend locked it....H flips, thinks that things were going on, and rushes off...

 

I run after him explaining the situation....we work through it the next day, he is still really upset and it brought back the hurt of what I did to him before we were married....anyway, H's friend comes over a few days later to talk to me about what happened and at first acts like he just wants to apologize...I make the mistake of telling him that it was hard to say no to him

 

OMFG...no you did not....geez. Woman..what the f#ck is wrong with you?

 

, he takes that and decides to ask if he can kiss me....I tell him no, that it can't be done...well we exchange email addresses so that he can email H and I pictures he took from the party....he and I end up chatting back and forth in emails and things get flirty....he eventually tries to set up a time for me to meet up with him, but I don't get back to him to make plans....same night, H decides to have friends over for a small party, including this particular friend.....

 

<snipping the betrayal part for length reduction>

 

so after I told him about the kiss, we were arguing one morning and I said something about "well then you can leave"

 

oh no...the cheater should always be the one to leave.

 

but didn't really mean it and didn't really want him to leave....he decides to leave however....packs up, moves out into an apartment that one of his single buddies has....I am crushed and shocked but dont' want to look weak or like I 'need' him too much so I dont' say too much and just kinda play along because I'm thinking he isn't really serious.....by this point, I have ended contact with the friend. So only a week or two after DH 'moves out', he spends the night at another W's house and sleeps with her....he comes home at 5am the next morning (was supposed to to watch our daughter while I went out doing christmas-eve early AM shopping)....

 

Hurts doesn't it?

 

I could sense....I just KNEW that he had spent the night with someone....I know my H extremely well and have an uncanny way with stuff like that.....I pretty much call him out on it, and he tells me he spent the night with another woman.....I flip....very hurt, all those emotions....run out of the house and off to one of my best girl friend's to tell her about it....as it ends up, H ends up continuing to see OW and moves in with her, partly out of a lack of another place to stay. At this point I am freaking out...I know that I love my H and our family and don't want us to divorce

 

Is this what you were thinking when you betrayed him?

 

counseling session ends up going horribly....he uses the time to go off about the cheating before he and I were married and about the recent goings-on with his friend and myself, and the therapist pretty much asks him, "so what you are saying is it's too little too late and you're done..." and he agrees. I continue to tell my husband I have changed...that I won't allow myself to become drunk and in situations that lead to what happened....etc....he says it doesn't matter, that he can't trust me, etc..

 

Of course he can't..you proved to him on more than one occasion that he can't trust you...can you blame him?

 

I have tried to get him to see that it is worth working on our marriage for our daughter's sake

 

Well I have to say that is the one thing I would have thought of in that situation...its never good when the kids are caught in the middle.

 

If he did decide to stay with you purely because of your daughter...I wouldn't blame him a bit...I am in a similar situation.

 

Anyway, I love my H very much and want to see him change his ways and turn his life around, but he refuses to see that he is doing anything wrong

 

Hmmm...you cheat on him...he leaves you...what exactly is it that he did wrong here?

 

He tells me he doesn't believe that I have made any changes (I have....big time....I have taken this situation and this time apart from him to improve myself and make myself be a better person and I see now that there are so many ways that I could have treated my H differently to truly love him and treat him that way) but he refuses to believe that I have changed and refuses to give me another chance...I know he has plenty of changes to make himself....

 

Ok...I know you didn't come here to get bashed...and as a BS...its hard not to...but I'll try.

 

Here is the deal...you cheated on him with 3 guys before you were married...he forgave you..started trusting you again...and you turn around and do it to him again. Can you see where nobody would blame him for getting bit twice by you? If ya did it once and never strayed again...ok...I can see it...maybe(even though I believe pretty much once a cheater always a cheater)

 

But this man forgave you the first time...you should have taken THAT 2nd chance and ran with it and never looked back or even THOUGHT of being with another man.

 

Additionally, about a month ago, H slept with me but afterwards acted very upset over the fact that he had 'cheated' on OW with me.....but after the act, in conversation with me he did admit to me that a part of him still loves me

 

Well..my support for him just dropped a notch. Sounds like your cheating rubbed off on him..he should have known better than to betray someone after knowing what it is like to be betrayed.

 

I know pride is one issue because pretty much all his friends want him to leave me....and they think OW is cooler because she is a party girl.....H has told me on several occassions that he and her are more compatible because 'she smokes too and she understands'....I feel like he just feels like he can't give me another chance

 

Well how many chances do you think you deserve....he gave you a chance after finding out you were unfaithful to him the first time...and you do it again???

 

and i feel like he won't let himself come back because he will think he is letting me 'win' and letting me get what I want,

 

Well there is the old "pride" thing going on there...I can't say I don't understand it. For someone to come back to a cheater after already giving them a 2nd chance ....to the betrayed, they feel like all they are doing is setting themselves up to be a doormat. He probably figures that if he comes back to you..the lesson you will learn is that you can cheat on him and he'll forgive you.

 

I am constantly hearing about people seeing my H and OW out together, etc...it has become too much for me to handle and I need to get away and focus on my daughter

 

Have you ever thought about just letting him go and move on with your life?...chalk it up to a lesson learned and not make the same mistake if you find yourself with another man in the future?

 

I also think it is largely due to him thinking he just can't trust me again...although I am trying to prove to him that he can....he asked me after he slept with me to not say anything to anyone, particularly the OW, and he said that if I do, then he will know he truly can't trust me.

 

Well..that is where he screwed up..he shouldn't have slept with you if he really cared about this other woman.

 

I do know that I have changed for the better as a result of all of this

 

Well I hate to say it..but something tells me that is the truth. Its just too bad it took him filing for divorce for you to come to that realization.

 

Thanks if you read this book of a post, my apologies in advance for rambling and probably being somewhat confusing, I just needed to get this out and hopefully someone can offer some advice or insight

 

Ok...i have been harsh in this post, but I think you needed to hear it.

 

So that part is over....so advice on what to do.

 

*sigh*...its a hard call. I am putting myself in your husands shoes and trying to think what, if anything, that you could do to change his mind.

 

It almost sounds like he will not waiver in his stance. I think if it wasn't for the fact that he was betrayed after he swallowed his pride the first time and built trust in you again, it might be possible for you two to get back together....but I just don't know.

 

Maybe you are right..maybe after this trip to your grandfathers place he will realize what he is missing with regards to his daughter....and really...if anything keeps him close and possibly coming back to you...it will be his daughter.

Don't expect that if he ever does come back that you are the main reason. I think alot of men, including myself, try to swallow alot of pride to keep the family together.

 

All I can tell you is, if a miracle happens, and he does take you back...you better not drop the ball ever again.

 

Otherwise I'll go boil me one giant lasagna noodle and slap you in the face with it myself to knock some sense into you

(no I'm not violent and will never hit a woman...just trying practice lightening up a bit)

[Salicious Crumb]

he said that I should belong in the kitchen, cooking, cleaning, taking care of the house, and that he is superior because he is the man. He said he cares about what HE wants and he wants to do what HE wants WHEN he wants and that he doesn't want to have to give attention to his SO when he doesn't want to...

 

You never mentioned that he was ever like this...I think he is saying all of this to piss you off. I can't believe any man would really say these things...and if he does mean it..then he isn't a man at all.

 

And I didn't read this before my first reply..so if this is really how he is..you have my apologies.

[Gunny376]

First off, this guy is an azzhat! His perception between the way things are and the ways things are suppose to be is way, way, way off. No doubt because his thinking is clouded from the fog of the alcohol, the pot, and the crack.

 

My first job out of the Corps once I retired out of the Corps, was as production supervisor. The company I worked for employeed some really good people, but they all came from the bottom of the social-economic ladder. School-To-Work, (guys that went to HS for 16 years, and got a Certificate of Attendance, but never graduated), illegal immigrants, people kicked off the welfare rolls ~ after having been on it all their lives, and "work-release" inmates from prison. Most of the guys that were on work release ~ were non-violent. They were in prison for either doing drugs, dealing drugs ~ or both. Usually the latter.

 

People that smoke crack or crystal meth are addicted for life. I've seen guys that have been locked up for years, and the first thing they want to do when they get back out on the street is to get "high" While in prison, for years! They've found God, they've found Jesus, they've found Allah, they've found Budda ~ whatever ~ but once they even get close to get close to getting back on the streets ~ the one thing they want to find is some crack or some CM (Crystal Meth)

 

I don't do drugs, never have. I'm too afraid I might like it ~ which is the single best reason to never try any of that ****, be it cigarettees (nicotine) beer, whiskey, pot, coke, cocaine, crack, whatever. From what I've personally witnessed with the crackheads, and the others, I'm fairly certain that if I were to ever try any of it ~ I'd probally like it ~ which is the reason I don't mess with it.

 

Once you've dancedd with the Devil ~ you don't change him ~ he changes you!

 

What's the OW got that you don't have?! She shares the pipe with him ~ you don't. You're kidding yourself if you think he's not off that ****!

 

What your dealing with is the Pipe! What your hearing is the pipe! The pipe is smoking ~ and the pipe is talking.

 

You need to tell this guy to take his pipe and shove it up his ass!

 

You think things are bad now! Try dealing with a crackhead XH and daughter at the same time!

 

Your Mama and Daddy raised you right! They're in your corner! They're doing you "righteous" ~ return the favor! They're losing sleep over you and this guy! Dump this guy!

 

You want him back?! He's the love of your life, them make him prove it, make him earn it, make him work for it! A momentary laspe, a momentary weakness, a kiss, I wished that was the worse my XW had done to me. Its like my last GF told me ~ one day when I became fiskey ~ "It don't come to that easy ~ you've got to work for it!" (BTW, I loved when she said that! Grrrrrrrrrr! I loved it!) :) :) :) :)

[confusedandhurt2]

You have become consumed by this OW, and the problem does not lay with her. It lays with him, and only he can work on himself.

 

Well, while it may be true that I have become consumed by this OW, there are a few other things I have left out about her - 1)her and I graduated high school together...not friends, not enemies - just different crowds, so we never talked.....but I know plenty about her 'reputation' let's call it....now this was almost 6 years ago, but I know plenty of people now, people who are not on either 'side' of this situation, who will tell you about her reputation..with men and other things as well. And it's bad. So that alone makes it hard for me to view her in anything but a negative light. 2)When I showed up at a local place with a friend and saw that my H was there with OW, she proceeded to flaunt about with my H - when we walked in she was sitting with some other friends, and unfortunately she noticed that I was there, and she made it a point to be as close to my H as possible, whisper in his ear, touch him whenever possible, etc.....of course I know she was feeding off of this, doing this in front of me - I should have left - but I was enjoying my time there with my friends that I was there talking to. And this was all at the very very beginning of this, before they were living together, but right after they had slept together....and while my H was still telling me he was 'thinking about things'. 3) She has continued to carry on in this immature manner by posting ridiculous things on her personal myspace page (yes, myspace.....immature that she's taking this there, but anyway....) She found out that I had been viewing her profile (yes, when I found out she was the OW, I looked her up) and she posted "The Boy Is Mine" video by Brandy....which starts off "You need to give it up...I've had about enough....it's not hard to see, the boy is mine..."......and has since posted several other things meant to be 'stabs' at me, etc....and has posted several pictures of her and my H together, including one of them holding each other side by side and sticking their tongues out at the camera (to me, in other words) - can we say immature yet again.... (and she has admitted to my H that she has posted things like this with ill intentions...this is the one thing that I have ever heard him be angry with her over - yes, it pisses my H off that she is posting this type of stuff)

[confusedandhurt2]

 

Honey, what you did in the past and what he's doing now are TWO SEPARATE things. I know you feel bad, and that you would've made emotional restitution to him if you could. But he CHOSE not to allow that. Your apologies were NOT accepted. Case closed.

 

Instead, he chose to abandon the marriage and engage in a revenge affair. Two wrongs don't make a right, sweetie.

 

I know....and I didn't mention this before either, but the day of the evening that he cheated and slept with OW....earlier that very day...he and I were talking and he brought up that he's always thought that maybe if he went out and cheated on me like I did to him way back when, that it might help him get over what I did. Well....yep, that night, he went out alone and met up with OW at a dance club/bar and ended up spending the night with her at her place......yet he claims this has and never had anything to do with revenge.

 

He's just as WRONG now as you were then. Moreso even. When push comes to shove, all you did was kiss a guy. He's used that as license to abandon ALL of his family responsibilities and to treat you, his wife and the mother of his child, like a second-class citizen.

 

This guy is a LOSER, not worth his salt. He abuses illicit drugs, alcohol, porn, and YOU.

 

Verbal abuse is NOT okay.

 

Thank you

 

I want you to really THINK about this for a minute.... Your daughter is only four right now and she can't do a whole lot to thwart him. But if he thinks it's alright for him to verbally debase her mother, what's to stop him from eventually turning that negative energy on her?

 

I don't know and that does scare me and is a concern whether he and I are together, or apart, since he is her father. H's biological dad left him and his mom when he was 2, for another woman. H's biological dad always talked crap about his mom to him. (is it relevant that H's biological dad is an alcoholic and recently served time in prison for abusing his wife?) Anyway, so his birth parents always talked crap about the other to my H all while he was growing up apparently. Well, H and I have said from the start of this that we can't and won't allow that to happen with our daughter. I would NEVER. Even in the one counseling session that I did get H to go last month, it was brought up and she reinforced how we cannot verbally bash the other to our daughter, etc. Wellll....one day H came over to babysit DD while I was going to work.....H and I got to talking before I left....I had gone out with some friends the night before, and just told him that "I had plans"....this bothered him - he felt that I was hiding something...I said to him "well I just didn't think we needed to elaborate on our individual plans - it's not like you tell me what YOU'RE doing - but then again I hear it from everyone else anyway" (referring to how I hear about people who saw him at such and such a place on this day with OW, and here on this day with OW, etc)....and anyway, my H flipped out, stormed upstairs, into my bedroom, SLAMMED the door shut and proceeded to verbally bash me and berate me all because some impartial people had mentioned to me that they saw him at a certain place with OW, and this pissed H off that other people were telling me these things, and pissed him off that I knew about what he was doing.....I didn't ASK these people, and it wasn't even coming from any close friend of mine or anything.....but he flipped because someone else chose to tell me about seeing him out with OW. Well, he was doing this door slamming and verbal bashing all in front of our daughter. I decided I was not going to leave my daughter here at home with H while he was being like this, so I called MIL to come over and stay with her. Well then he turned that into "You are keeping me from my child out of spite". He stormed over to her room and slammed that door behind him. She is in there with him. He tells her straight to her innocent little 3 year old face, "DADDY DOESN'T LIKE MOMMY". I told him to leave. He refused. Finally he decides to leave (probably so that he doesn't have to see his mother - whom he never calls because he knows she isn't supporting what he's doing....is it relevant that he's also lied to and disrespected his mother for countless years?)....so anyway, before he leaves, he takes DD and bends down to her level, looks her in the face and tells her, "Mommy doesn't want me to see you. Mommy wants to keep you away from me." :mad: :mad:

 

Eventually, she'll be big enough to give him some sass. Will he also expect HER to "belong in the kitchen, cooking, cleaning, taking care of the house"? Will he teach her that her future mate with be "superior because he is the man"?

 

I don't know...I certainly hope he will not want to teach her that. That is a good point - maybe I should ask him.

[confusedandhurt2]

Gunny,

 

Superb thought. It is the argument against "staying for the kids," which is terribly valid in this situation.

 

My new philosophy: if you don't want your son to grow up to be just like him or your daughter to grow up and marry someone just like him, GET RID OF HIM!

 

Gunny and MoonGirl...I know. And agree...but then would I not have to cut my daughter out of his life completely? Even if H and I are divorced, he will have visitation or whatever is worked out.....and so she will still have (unless he changes) a pot-smoking, porn addicted, at times alcohol-abusing, drunk-driving father with uncontrollable anger and immense immaturity and selfishness who is also a habitual liar......what do I do? What CAN I do? He will always LIE about using drugs, drinking, being addicted to porn to the point that he can't stay away from it even during his hour of time he gets with her each day, etc.....he will LIE in court, he will LIE to everyone about it....I can't just up and run away and never let him see her????? DD loves him and has a great time with him, now. He says he can smoke pot and still be a good dad. I disagree. He is like two different people...sometimes he is the kindest, sweetest, seemingly best dad in the world, and the next minute he is verbally abusing me in front of her, slamming doors, talking crap on me to her, and telling her lies. He once said that when she discovers what pot is and is curious about it or whatever, that he will smoke it with her!!!!!! :mad:

[confusedandhurt2]

Maybe you are right..maybe after this trip to your grandfathers place he will realize what he is missing with regards to his daughter....and really...if anything keeps him close and possibly coming back to you...it will be his daughter.

Don't expect that if he ever does come back that you are the main reason. I think alot of men, including myself, try to swallow alot of pride to keep the family together.

 

Oh, I know, believe me I know, if there is any chance that he would want to change himself for the better/come back to me, it would be because of his daughter, I know that.

 

All I can tell you is, if a miracle happens, and he does take you back...you better not drop the ball ever again.

 

Believe me I most definitely positively without a doubt would NOT. After the first time years ago, I never thought about actually seeking it out and pursuing cheating on him, never thought of being with another man. Not to say that our marriage was not greatly lacking in a lot of ways due to his neglect of me, porn addiction, etc.....problem this time around was me getting into situations where my better judgement was impaired by alcohol, in addition to the vulnerability and weak-mindedness that had set in due to said porn addiction and H's neglect of time spent with me, etc.

I will not ever allow myself to be put into a situation of having my judgement impaired like that. And maybe I didn't truly learn the consequences the first time because H was so quick to forgive. Trust me when I say I've learned now. I've learned more than enough for a lifetime when it comes to that.

[confusedandhurt2]

You never mentioned that he was ever like this...I think he is saying all of this to piss you off. I can't believe any man would really say these things...and if he does mean it..then he isn't a man at all.

 

And I didn't read this before my first reply..so if this is really how he is..you have my apologies.

 

I don't know.....I am not sure if he truly means or not the part about the woman belonging barefoot in the kitchen and the man being superior because he is the man....I would not be surprised if he did mean it though. He did also tell me that after he took me back after what happened years ago that I should have become his slave....did everything and anything he wanted me to whenever I wanted him to....all because he 'forgave' me......well no, I don't think that is forgiving someone. I think he uses the few valid things that he can bring up that I have done to hurt him and uses them as an excuse for all of his bad decisions and all of his mistreatment of me......yet the porn addiction and him not being able to stop it even though he knew how much it hurt me goes all the way back to before I EVER cheated or did anything to hurt HIM.

[Ladyjane14]

....my H flipped out, stormed upstairs, into my bedroom, SLAMMED the door shut and proceeded to verbally bash me and berate me....

 

....He tells her straight to her innocent little 3 year old face, "DADDY DOESN'T LIKE MOMMY". I told him to leave. He refused. Finally he decides to leave (probably so that he doesn't have to see his mother - whom he never calls because he knows she isn't supporting what he's doing....is it relevant that he's also lied to and disrespected his mother for countless years?)....so anyway, before he leaves, he takes DD and bends down to her level, looks her in the face and tells her, "Mommy doesn't want me to see you. Mommy wants to keep you away from me."

 

You need to be documenting EVERY single incidence of this kind of behavior. A plain old spiral-bound notebook will do. Make sure you date all your entries and write them out in ink by hand. Don't keep your records on the computer. There's no way for a court to tell if they're authentic or not. For all they know, you could've just typed them all in one day.

 

 

 

I've got to tell you... you haven't said ONE thing about this guy that's impressed me.

I can't even read between the lines and find something nice about him. You know, we only get one side of the story here, but usually I can see the holes in it and FIND at least a little bit of something positive in the unrepresented party. But.... there's just nothing good to find here.

 

You could do soooo much better than this. There are better men out there than what you've seen. :bunny:

 

To begin with, this guy has apparently learned to hate women at his father's knee. Dad has a record of wife-beating? And THAT's okay with your husband? WRONG.

Further, he carries that mindset with him to the extent that he direspects his own mother. What makes you think that YOU are exempt from it?... or your daughter as she grows?

 

He's got an anger problem which he apparently has no control over. He's verbally abusive to you and can't seem to control what he says to his child. "Daddy doesn't like Mommy anymore?" WTF is that??? He thinks THAT's appropriate discussion for a 3-year old?

 

He prioritizes porn ahead of intimacy to the point of addiction. This ALONE is a problem having the potential to destroy the marriage. Even if nothing else was going wrong in the relationship... this one problem would eventually catch up with you.

 

He smokes dope. (You realize that it's not 1975 anymore, right? People can be financially RUINED defending themselves from drug charges these days. Property can be confiscated, and social services can become involved when there are children in the home. Illicit drug use does NOT affect only the user. It affects EVERYONE who relies upon him.)

 

He doesn't think he should be responsible for taking care of his obligations. HE believes it's okay for your father to support HIS wife and child. Sorry, but just because your Dad can provide for you doesn't mean he should have to. Your Dad is not WH's personal WALLET. (!!!!)

 

He thinks it's okay to shack up with an OW because he's "separated" and has said he wants a divorce.

 

Well you know what?... You need to GIVE it to him.

 

All in all... this guy has NO self-control. He's a little boy with man-sized choices, and his judgement in making them reflects his immaturity.

 

 

 

Seriously, I really do think you should see an attorney and legalize this separation. Right now, I doubt there's anything stopping him from just picking your daughter up and carrying her off. In most states, both parents have equal rights unless there's a court order defining each parents custodial role. If he files first, he could ask for temporary custody and have it granted. You'd have to wait for a court date to get her back.

 

Your biggest priority right now needs to be taking care of your daughter. If you ask me, this guy shouldn't even get visitation without completing a parenting course. He doesn't know what's appropriate for kids.

 

Your GUILT is stopping you from doing what you know you need to do. But what you have to understand is that your child pays the price for your self-induced penance right along with you. YOU might feel like you don't deserve better... but I guaran-damn-tee you that your daughter does.

 

My advice to you....

 

Talk it over with your Mom and Dad, and get a PLAN together.

 

See an attorney and secure child custody and support. Arrange visitation.

 

Don't share any info with MIL, but do allow her plentiful visitation.

 

Stay out of the bars and keep your own reputation pristine. Meet your friends in other venues like theatres and coffee shops.

 

NEVER see or speak to the "friend" who made inappropriate advances to you again. He's a loser who chased down another man's wife. You don't need THAT in your life. Again, there are better men out there.

 

Don't look at OW's Myspace page again. Don't talk to her or about her. Have nothing to do with the OW. She beneath you and doesn't deserve your attention. That said, if you have evidence that proves she's an unhealty influence in your child's life, document it and get it to your attorney. You might be able to keep her away from your baby... at least for awhile anyway.

 

(*Remember, the bigger fuss you make about OW... the more he wants to thwart you by being with her. You don't want to become the GLUE which binds them together. Sans whatever drama you might inadvertantly provide for them, they only have each other to amuse themselves with. When left to their own devices... cheaters often find they can't hardly tolerate each other.)

 

 

Throughout all this, be as pleasant as he'll allow you to be... but don't take any bullsh*t off him either. He'll try to intimidate you, so if you feel in ANY way threatened don't hesitate to call the police. Put an RO on him if necessary.

 

You're just a woman doing what she needs to do at this point. It's nothing personal so don't let him MAKE it personal. If he can't keep a civil tongue in his head, direct him to you attorney. Don't yell, don't cuss, don't show any temper at all, but make it clear that you are DONE with his abuse. It's all business from here on out.

 

He's become accustomed to being in the driver's seat, so he's gonna balk. But this is YOUR life. And I think you're going to be shocked at how good it will feel to be back in charge of it.