My sister

[blind_otter]

I see big red flags when I re-read alchemyst's original post. Especially the part where she says the sister is exactly like the mother, and alchemyst could not handle the mother. I see signs of being controlling and emotionally abusive. Not getting "emotional"? Not being able to come and go as she pleases? Give me a break. She is an adult and should be treated as such.

 

A good sister would want her sibling to find her own way, even if that way isn't her way.

[Touche]

My point was that I didn't think any of her sister's requests were unreasonable...they were all reasonable in my opinion.

 

Anyway, yes we agree that she should weigh her options. And I think she's doing that..hence this thread.

 

I think her sister IS trying to help Alch find her own way. She's removing all the financial pressure so that Alch can do just that.

 

I see nothing emotionally abusive or controlling here. It's called "tough love." Sounds like it's just what the doctor ordered here.

 

I think if Alch really thought about it, she'd realize that the reasons she didn't get along with her mother are not ALL the mother's fault. I'm quite sure that Alch contributed to that conflict. Maybe she can learn something from that and she'll experience less conflict with her sister.

[blind_otter]

Tough love isn't about controlling what another person does, and it never should be. I know tough love, I've received it many times.

[Touche]

Tough love isn't about controlling what another person does, and it never should be. I know tough love, I've received it many times.

 

I agree but I don't think the sister is being controlling. She just had some good ground rules that come attached to her lending her support. I see nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

 

How would it help, Alch if her sister just let her move in and continue as she has? That would be ENABLING...as I've mentioned. Not helping.

[Moose]

Ok......I see some people calling the sister who wants to help out crazy, pyscho, controlling, and unreasonable, (ridiculous accusations if you ask me), and I see some people saying that all she wants to do is help her sister out.

 

I'm siding with the sister is only wanting to help out.

 

Through my experiences, the truly hard areas in my life where I struggled, it took another person to hold me accountable.

 

I say take her up on the offer, and work on those areas of life that are truly holding you back from success and the ability to live a full life on your own.

[blind_otter]

How would it help, Alch if her sister just let her move in and continue as she has? That would be ENABLING...as I've mentioned. Not helping.

 

I never said it wouldn't be. But one would hope that we can help people without telling them what to do or who to associate with. In fact, when you have rules like that you sort of prevent an individual from learning how to make the right choices. If I had lived with my mother under her rules, how would I have learned who I was, what I needed, who I wanted to be? That's what the independent period of adulthood is all about. Those who go without that kind of era in their lives tend to suffer more.

[Touche]

I never said it wouldn't be. But one would hope that we can help people without telling them what to do or who to associate with. In fact, when you have rules like that you sort of prevent an individual from learning how to make the right choices. If I had lived with my mother under her rules, how would I have learned who I was, what I needed, who I wanted to be? That's what the independent period of adulthood is all about. Those who go without that kind of era in their lives tend to suffer more.

 

I agree with you but she's been making those decisions for herself and it hasn't worked out for her. She has not made the right choices for herself. So it's time to try it a different way.

 

A little accountability now would help her get back on track.

 

There's no ONE way for people to grow up. It takes some of us longer than others. It takes a different way sometimes.

 

I don't see how the sister can help Alch WITHOUT those ground rules.

[Touche]

Ok......I see some people calling the sister who wants to help out crazy, pyscho, controlling, and unreasonable, (ridiculous accusations if you ask me), and I see some people saying that all she wants to do is help her sister out.

 

I'm siding with the sister is only wanting to help out.

 

Through my experiences, the truly hard areas in my life where I struggled, it took another person to hold me accountable.

 

I say take her up on the offer, and work on those areas of life that are truly holding you back from success and the ability to live a full life on your own.

 

EXACTLY!

 

Because this is not always the way it works:

 

"In fact, when you have rules like that you sort of prevent an individual from learning how to make the right choices."

[Storyrider]

In reading between the lines a bit on Alch's post, I am in agreement with Touche and Moose on this one.

 

I'm guessing when the sister says she doesn't want Alch getting emotional, she is referring to over-the-top emotional or emotional in a way that is counterproductive, I don't think her sister wants her to be a robot.

 

I am also guessing that her sister sees her friends and ex boyfriend are undermining her ability to reach her own goals.

 

This is a gamble for her sister as well. I think she wants all the cards on the table, and she wants to set things up so they are likely to succeed.

[Touche]

Yes, Story...good point. I took that "emotional" rule to be what you said as well. People take things so literally sometimes on here.

 

Also, just wanted to say that I find it very interesting that it appears that all the "twenty-somethings" think the sister is nuts and the over thirty crowd can clearly see that she's trying to help.

 

Very interesting.

 

So who do YOU think is right, Alch...people with little life experience or those with more?

[CardPlay3r]

LOL what a means of 'propaganda'....riddler is not 20 something, and I think it has to do with people's conceptions of life and what is right what is wrong than age. The "older is smarter" implication seems pretty arrogant, ignorant and insulting to me...

 

I think you are giving her sister too much credit, she has said she was like her mother and from my understanding her mother didn't treat her right at all

[Pyro]

LOL what a means of 'propaganda'....riddler is not 20 something, and I think it has to do with people's conceptions of life and what is right what is wrong than age. The "older is smarter" implication seems pretty arrogant, ignorant and insulting to me...

 

I think you are giving her sister too much credit, she has said she was like her mother and from my understanding her mother didn't treat her right at all

 

Actually I am in my 20's, but I will assume that you thought I was older which I do consider a compliment, so thanks.

 

Whether we are in our 20's, our 30's, or even older, none of us here knows her sister. We are all basing our opinions on how Alchemyst described her, so no one is anymore accurate or correct then the other on here.

[Touche]

LOL what a means of 'propaganda'....riddler is not 20 something, and I think it has to do with people's conceptions of life and what is right what is wrong than age. The "older is smarter" implication seems pretty arrogant, ignorant and insulting to me...

 

I think you are giving her sister too much credit, she has said she was like her mother and from my understanding her mother didn't treat her right at all

 

How old do you think Rid is? I always thought he was in his twenties. Anyway, I wasn't trying to imply that over 30's are "smarter"...we just have more experience. Can read between the lines better, I think. And can recognize when someone is trying to help.

 

Call it arrogance, insulting, etc. etc. I knew I'd get that type of response...so predictable.

 

I think you're not giving the sister ENOUGH credit. Even, Alch said that once she wrote it all out, it didn't seem that bad a deal.

[Storyrider]

LOL what a means of 'propaganda'....riddler is not 20 something, and I think it has to do with people's conceptions of life and what is right what is wrong than age. The "older is smarter" implication seems pretty arrogant, ignorant and insulting to me...

 

I think you are giving her sister too much credit, she has said she was like her mother and from my understanding her mother didn't treat her right at all

 

Riddler is in his twenties.

 

What do you think her sister's motivation is? To have someone to abuse?

 

Or do you think she has good intentions but is just going about it wrongly?

 

How would you try to help, if you were her sibling, and you knew she had an admitted problem with drugs and alcohol, an admitted problem in finishing her classes in school, and an admitted problem letting go of her ex?

[magichands]

LOL what a means of 'propaganda'....

seems pretty arrogant, ignorant and insulting to me...

Jesus loves you. Everyone else thinks you're a moron.

[Pyro]

Or do you think she has good intentions but is just going about it wrongly?

 

That is how I feel about it. She wants to help but she is being way too bossy about it and she has already given Alch attitude about it and she hasn't even made a decision yet.

[Touche]

Actually I am in my 20's, but I will assume that you thought I was older which I do consider a compliment, so thanks.

 

Whether we are in our 20's, our 30's, or even older, none of us here knows her sister. We are all basing our opinions on how Alchemyst described her, so no one is anymore accurate or correct then the other on here.

 

True but I look at a person't ACTIONS. Look what the sister is willing to do for her. No one is talking about that. She's sacrificing her own privacy and willing to help her out financially...no small thing, that.

[magichands]

That is how I feel about it. She wants to help but she is being way too bossy about it and she has already given Alch attitude about it and she hasn't even made a decision yet.

Well, I think one has to be "somewhat" convinced that a person is willing to make the change, and this testing and probing is part of that process.

[Touche]

Well, I think one has to be "somewhat" convinced that a person is willing to make the change, and this testing and probing is part of that process.

 

I agree.

 

I mean her sister, as I've said, is giving up her privacy and helping her out financially. The LEAST Alch could do in return is agree to her sister's conditions. What's so "emotionally abusive" about that? Sheesh!

[the_alchemyst]

Thanks for your replies, everyone.

 

I'm going to try to explain a bit more.

 

My sister and I talked again this morning. She came over unexpectedly and brought along some little cakes I really like, so that was nice.

 

Unfortunately . . . My place was messy so she nagged at me for a good portion of the time. Sigh.

 

Anyway, I asked her why she had made the rules she did, and she answered telling me it was obvious, and that if I didn't get it I was stupid. So, she brings me cakes and calls me stupid; my sister is a trip, dude.

 

Given her answers, let me reply to some of these posts:

 

Some of the things your sister is asking you to do are things you've wanted to do on your own anyway, right? Like moving on from the ex boyfriend, and quitting the smoking? And you might feel better not being in solitude so much.

 

Yes and no. In theory, I would love to forget about the exbf and stop smoking all of the sh*t I smoke. In reality, though, I still wish and want my exbf and I to have another chance, and I smoke cigarettes, weed, and other stuff as my method of coping/temporarily forgetting the crapiness that is my life.

 

So, while I deep down I really want to leave these things behind, on the surface, I don't wan't to.

 

As for the solitude--well, I feel lonely most of the time. But that's probably because I really am lonely. The only "normal" familial connection I had in the past months had been with my brother, but he moved some months ago with his gf, so I haven't heard from him since.

 

Aside from him, the rest of my family seems to be entirely nonexistent.

 

I also don't talk to my old friends because, honestly, I was too embarassed to let them know how badly my life had changed. Plus with everything that was going on, I found it easier to just disassociate from them completely. And so I did, for the most part.

 

As I mentioned before, living with her would be a different kind of loneliness. She is a very cold person and so is her husband. I have been to their home before and it's really lifeless, from what I saw.

 

That's where I got it from. So, no contact with her ex-bf and her friends, if that's not controlling I don't know what is. That is a very common thing for abusers to make their victim cut everyone else off, so alchemyst would be totally dependent on her and I don't only mean financially.

 

People NEED friends for crying out loud, it's a basic human need to socialize.

 

The friends my sister is refering to are the new "friends" I made. She has seem them and knows about the things I do when in their company.

 

These people are the people you see hanging around in parks and alleys, smoking all sorts of sh*t. They are also the people who throw parties every which way and get dead drunk all of the time. They are also the people who do not go to school any longer, and who work at the dead end jobs.

 

These people are also, quite honestly, dumb people.

 

I know all of this, yet I like to hang out with them because I feel they are just as ****ed up as I am, if not perhaps a little bit more. I realize how twisted this sounds, but I simply cannot go with my other friends, explain to them what's going on, and chat about family and boyfriends and grades and the mall and that ****. Not anymore.

 

When I'm with them, I feel like such a failure.

 

And with these people, I chat about drugs and alcohol and who punched who in the face in an act of drunkenness and how much hate they have for the world. I can talk about that. Nothing smart, nothing good--I fit in just fine.

 

When I'm with them, I feel like I have found my little circle of failures.

 

These are the people she doesn't want me to talk to, but if I don't talk to them, I won't have anyone to talk to.

 

I think that a compromise with her would be the best idea, if you were to move in with her, but like you said, she likes to have things her way, so that probably will not happen.

 

I tried to do this this morning. I asked her if it was okay if I went out on the weekends every now and them. She said yes. But she also said she would tell me the time I was expected to be home, and that if I wasn't home by that hour, she wasn't going to open the door. She also added that if I did that more than once, that I shouldn't bother to even try to go home.

 

She also told me that she realizes that I'm 20, but she said that being 20 doesn't give me leeway to act like a libertine.

 

 

What is wrong with her current lifestyle? And why are her friends a bad influence? Where did you get that from? Just because her sister thinks so?

 

A lot is wrong with my current lifestyle.

 

I have no money most of the time. I'm always struggling to pay next months rent. My "friends" are the worst influence ever, yet I don't want to leave them because they are good for nothings, just like me.

 

My health requires me to take pills on a regular basis, and I struggle a lot to come by these because of my lack of money.

 

I also should have been done with my AA a year ago, but I always enroll and withdraw from school . . . all of the time . . . so I've dragged it out a whole year and a half extra.

 

I smoke pot just about every day because I always feel so emotionally defeated, and this is the only thing that helps me not feel this way, at least momentarily.

 

In short, I'm doing just about everything wrong. And I have tried to make things right--I really have. I've tried to quit smoking, I've tried to hang onto school ever so dearly, I've tried to stop talking to those people, I've tried to let go . . . but I fail. Every time. And it's really beginning to piss me off because in my attempts, I honestly don't know what I'm doing wrong. I just collapse out of the blue, which makes me think my sister is right in that I have no backbone.

 

Especially the part where she says the sister is exactly like the mother, and alchemyst could not handle the mother.

 

One of the main reasons I couldn't handle my mother, aside from her ungodly betrayals and affairs, was the fact that she was very cold hearted. She was just so emotionally distant that a conversation with her was nearly impossible.

 

I never understood her. She never understood me. Actually, no. I think she did understand me; she just didn't like it, so she rejected my personality.

 

I am just soft-hearted to the point where I make myself sick. Seriously. In fact, I attribute a lot of my problems and failures to my stupid feelings and emotions. I can't help but think, sometimes, that were I more hard of heart like, say my sister, I would be better off, perhaps.

 

I don't know.

 

Today, my sister asked me if I had heard from my dad and I told her I hadn't. She expressed some serious disgust in that and said he was just as bad as my mom. She said she couldn't understand how they can just leave someone who they made and raised to be so emotionally inept (...) on her own.

 

She always has to end everything with a negative remark, I swear. Jesus, dude.

 

Anyway, she just off about the same things. She told me, very clearly, that if I don't like her rules, then I can just stay where I am. She says I'm in no position to be compromising, and that if I don't want to go, it's fine by her.

 

Thinking on it, I understand her rules are not so bad, really, and that there (probably) is goodness behind them, but omygod!!--I feel like I'm going to be in a boot camp.

[Storyrider]

Thinking on it, I understand her rules are not so bad, really, and that there (probably) is goodness behind them, but omygod!!--I feel like I'm going to be in a boot camp.

 

So maybe the question is, what sounds worse to you? Would it be worse to be in boot camp with your sister, knowing it might help you get unstuck but be very unpleasant and painful in the process?

 

Or does it sounds worse to stay stuck in the rut that you're in, knowing your life could go on this way for some time, or even get worse?

 

Neither choice sounds fun, to be sure. But which is the lesser of evils?

[Touche]

Maybe if she sees you're serious about trying to turn things around, she'll lighten up on you a little.

 

Did you give her a hug and thank her for offering to help you? That might "thaw" her out a little.

[CardPlay3r]

Riddler is in his twenties.

 

What do you think her sister's motivation is? To have someone to abuse?

 

Or do you think she has good intentions but is just going about it wrongly?

 

How would you try to help, if you were her sibling, and you knew she had an admitted problem with drugs and alcohol, an admitted problem in finishing her classes in school, and an admitted problem letting go of her ex?

 

 

About her sister's intentions, abusers don't usually make a predetermined plan let's do this and that, it's just in their nature, a mental disorder and if her sister is indeed one then she'll just do it without realizing it and THAT will be far worse than what she's going through now.

 

Good question what I would do...well I would first of all talk to her instead of coming up with a "list of demands" ask her how she wanted to improve herself and set up the rules according to that discussion so that it'd be something agreed upon by both parties.

 

If there was an alcohol or drug problem/addiction that would be the first priority and left to doctors/rehab etc. .

 

I don't believe anyone can be helped unless they realize they have a problem and want to solve it, you can't help anyone by force.

 

Perhaps most importantly I'd encourage her to talk about things including feelings as I don't see how forcing someone to shut down and be introverted can be any help, quite the contrary.I certainly wouldn't have the I'm always right you're always wrong, obey me no matter what I say and don't show any feelings/comments attitude her sister has.

[Storyrider]

Just as an addendum, I've read your posts before where you've said you felt abandoned by your parents when they split and left.

 

You write as if you wanted/needed more parenting and didn't feel like you were ready to be kicked out of the nest.

 

At the same time, you were dissatisfied with you mom, and it sounds like your sister's style of relating to you disappoints you as well. I can understand that, and it is hard when you wish for people to relate to you differently and it seems they won't or can't.

 

But at the same time, your sister can only offer you what she has to offer, and will only be who she is going to be. You won't change her, so it is up to you whether you want to accept her support on her terms or not. She is offering you what she feels she can, and I believe it is her way of showing love to you.

[magichands]

, your sister can only offer you what she has to offer, and will only be who she is going to be. You won't change her, so it is up to you whether you want to accept her support on her terms or not. She is offering you what she feels she can, and I believe it is her way of showing love to you.

I agree wholeheartedly with this.