Overcoming Insecurity, Pt. 1

[epicurean]

Hi all,

 

I've been reading the LoveShack boards for a while now and finally decided to post. I am 23 years old and involved in a relationship of 8 months. Recently, insecurity issues of mine have begun to affect the relationship, and I would like some input from others. One of these issues seemed so significant that it warranted its own post.

 

The issue involves one of my GF's friends -- we'll call him Terry. Terry is gay, and probably my GF's best friend. She refers to him as her "gay boyfriend". Terry had to move away a few months back, but still comes to visit (or she goes to visit him, often bringing me along) on occasion.

 

Prior to me, Terry and my GF would make out. I'm not sure why; Terry is definitely gay. I can only assume it was supposed to be some kind of cutesy thing. When Terry came to visit on his birthday, he said something about making out with her. She seemed distressed, and asked me if it was alright if she did.

 

Now, I was a bit taken aback by the question, and wasn't sure what to say. But I didn't want to be seen as interfering with their friendship -- especially not by Terry. And with him sitting right there, I felt I had no choice but to say yes.

 

For the rest of the night, I was pretty upset over the incident. I came to think: making out with someone other than your partner is cheating, period. And the fact that she still apparently felt the need to make out with Terry made me feel a little inadequate.

 

Since then, they've continued to make out -- including in front of me on a few occasions. I've only very vaguely hinted at my discomfort with this situation. Yet I'm afraid to say anything outright, for fear that I'll be seen as interfering with their friendship, fear that she'll be upset with me ("See? [My boyfriend] doesn't care," she assured him upon my seeing them make out for the first time), and because I feel like should have said something a lot earlier, and that by not doing so, I was being misleading.

 

How should I feel? What should I do?

[peanutbutter2]

You should feel very hurt! You are so concerned about interfering with their friendship - but actually it is interfering with YOUR relationship! How would not liking your GF making out with another person be seen as interfering in a friendship? Something like that shouldnt be happening, at all. If your GF can't see/understand that then thats quite odd. How would she feel if you made out with someone else?

[epicurean]

Well, at first I didn't have as much as a problem with it. My interpretation was that they didn't do it out of attraction or anything, but just because it was supposed to be funny/cute/ironic. It also generally only occurs when they're drunk. She says she only feels like "making out with everyone" when she's drunk. And I think it's just the act that she's interested in, not expressing any sort of feelings.

 

One time, a lesbian friend of hers, Carrie, joked about making out with her on New Year's. They'd done so previously, presumably for reasons similar to those mentioned above. Carrie then asked, "But what about [your boyfriend]?" And my GF assured her that I didn't care.

 

Carrie then said that she'd make out with me, too; and my GF said, "No!" But then she conceded that she had to let me, and eventually insisted (apparently sincerely) that she didn't care if I did. I later told her that I wouldn't in actuality, feeling that such behavior was inappropriate.

 

What actually happened on New Year's was that we made out out at midnight. Then she kissed everyone else in the room, and made out with Terry. I gave Carrie a kiss, but only after she seemed offended that I wouldn't.

[brightskies]

Epicurean,

 

Sorry, but making out with someone else when you're in a relationship is cheating. You really shouldn't put up with it. And your gf doing this in front of you is totally twisted. Doesn't matter if the make out partner's male or female, straight or gay. By the way, it's possible that Terry's bi-sexual. I've also met men who seem completely gay or are very effeminate in mannerisms, but who are totally hetero in sexual orientation. You're not being insecure, that's your gut telling you to smarten up. You need to define appropriate boundaries with your gf.

[epicurean]

Terry identifies as gay and has never been with or shown interest in being with a woman.

 

Part of the problem is that I feel as if I shouldn't *have* to tell her that what she's doing is inappropriate. I also kind of feel that if she's doing it, she must have some need that making out with me isn't filling; and that therefore, asking her not to do it will either have no effect or will result in more problems further down the line. On a similar note, I think the fact that she *wants* to do it is more hurtful than than the fact that she does it. And I just hate to feel like I'm telling anyone in a personal relationship what to do. I feel like I can tell her how certain actions make me feel, but whether or not she should do them.

[brightskies]

It sounds like your maturity level is more developed than your gf's. Maybe she needs the attention, maybe she's getting something else out of it, etc. Who knows? What's really bothersome is how she seems so oblivious to how it affects you. But part of the problem is that you haven't expressed your thoughts to her. She's your gf, you should be able to open up to her about these things.

 

You say that you "shouldn't have to tell her," but the fact is, different people have different boundaries. I don't mean chain her to the wall or anything like that, but when you're dating exclusively there has to be some mutual agreement on what you both can handle. Making out with other people even when drunk could be verboten in someone else's relationship, but might be fine in yours. In any case, you need to sit down and have an open discussion with her. Ask her why she feels the need to do this. It's hurting you, it's hurting your relationship. Tell her what you've been writing here.

 

Also, there's a weird disconnect between your behavior and hers, i.e., you're consistently loyal to her, but she "wants to make out with everyone when she's drunk." That speaks of self-control issues. That and the way your relationship expectations/behavior don't match up could definitely lead to bigger problems later on.

 

 

Terry identifies as gay and has never been with or shown interest in being with a woman.

 

Part of the problem is that I feel as if I shouldn't *have* to tell her that what she's doing is inappropriate. I also kind of feel that if she's doing it, she must have some need that making out with me isn't filling; and that therefore, asking her not to do it will either have no effect or will result in more problems further down the line. On a similar note, I think the fact that she *wants* to do it is more hurtful than than the fact that she does it. And I just hate to feel like I'm telling anyone in a personal relationship what to do. I feel like I can tell her how certain actions make me feel, but whether or not she should do them.

[woodyman]

Hey I tell you what.

 

Find a close female friend of yours, and she has become a new 'make-out' buddy you decided to have. As bluntly as that you will have the answer as to how much your GF wants to keep you.

 

That is probably a petty thing to do, but more often than not, petty things get through to people.

 

You don't have to do that, but it was just to get you thinking about SOMETHING, cause something definately does need doing.

[alphamale]

why exactly is a supposedly "gay" dude making out with your woman? thats the real question you need to be asking.

[epicurean]

It sounds like your maturity level is more developed than your gf's. Maybe she needs the attention, maybe she's getting something else out of it, etc. Who knows? What's really bothersome is how she seems so oblivious to how it affects you. But part of the problem is that you haven't expressed your thoughts to her. She's your gf, you should be able to open up to her about these things.

 

I've often thought there's a difference in maturity levels myself. More precisely, I think that I met her at a point in her life when she was more mature; Terry when she was less mature. Terry himself is very immature. So I think that when she's around him, she feels the need to revert to her less mature self as a means of better connecting with him.

 

You say that you "shouldn't have to tell her," but the fact is, different people have different boundaries. I don't mean chain her to the wall or anything like that, but when you're dating exclusively there has to be some mutual agreement on what you both can handle. Making out with other people even when drunk could be verboten in someone else's relationship, but might be fine in yours. In any case, you need to sit down and have an open discussion with her. Ask her why she feels the need to do this. It's hurting you, it's hurting your relationship. Tell her what you've been writing here.

 

I agree. The problem, though, is that it was such a long time ago -- months -- that I said it was okay. For reasons already mentioned, I don't know how to go about bringing it up now, and I'm not sure it would be right of me to do so.

 

Two ways of bringing it up I've considered: 1.) more diplomatically, saying that given how possessive and manipulative it's now clear to me Terry is, I would prefer she didn't, or 2.) less diplomatically, saying something like, "You really enjoy hurting me, don't you?"

 

Another part of my reluctance derives from the fact that her last boyfriend was viciously controlling.

[alphamale]

Another part of my reluctance derives from the fact that her last boyfriend was viciously controlling.

so you haven't figured out yet that she prefers controlling dudes?

[brightskies]

People and relationships aren't stagnant; they change over time and varying circumstances. Like yourself I'm currently dealing with an awkward situation that involves having to "revisit" a past "agreement" with my bf.

 

Yes, it's true that when the issue first came up, you figured, "Ok, why not." Maybe you didn't really think it through, or didn't realize at the time how it would really affect you. There's nothing wrong with that. You absolutely have the right to bring it up!

 

But you do need to re-open the discussion, otherwise you're just in for a long string of disappoinment, resentment, more pain. It's obvious that you're a considerate guy, and that you care about this girl, but you need to be careful that other people, your gf included, don't step all over you. Coming to a mutual agreement on personal boundaries is not controlling. If anything, she'll respect you more.

 

Speak up and let her know what's going on in your head. Just be honest, and non-attacking in your approach. There might be some initial resistance, afterall, this is a change in her usual routine, but if she cares about you, she'll understand and will be more considerate, will be willing to back off. As for Terry, he's NOT her bf, YOU are, and he needs to learn to deal with the fact that making out with your gf is for you, not him, gay or not.

 

 

 

I've often thought there's a difference in maturity levels myself. More precisely, I think that I met her at a point in her life when she was more mature; Terry when she was less mature. Terry himself is very immature. So I think that when she's around him, she feels the need to revert to her less mature self as a means of better connecting with him.

 

 

 

I agree. The problem, though, is that it was such a long time ago -- months -- that I said it was okay. For reasons already mentioned, I don't know how to go about bringing it up now, and I'm not sure it would be right of me to do so.

 

Two ways of bringing it up I've considered: 1.) more diplomatically, saying that given how possessive and manipulative it's now clear to me Terry is, I would prefer she didn't, or 2.) less diplomatically, saying something like, "You really enjoy hurting me, don't you?"

 

Another part of my reluctance derives from the fact that her last boyfriend was viciously controlling.

[peanutbutter2]

Remember, you teach others how to treat you. By allowing this behavior (which I think you do think is wrong) you are allowing her to treat you a certain way. You think that telling her to stop this will cause problems later because her needs arent fulfilled...but if she keeps *this* up can you imagine what other problems may arise? If she really likes/loves you, she will haev to understand your feelings - and if she doesnt understand completely, she should understand that her actions are bothering you and that you have to discuss this a lot more.

 

And I agree, your maturity level is higher than hers - i think..unless she really has a skewed sense of boundaries in relationships. This is not okay!!

[Green]

should your girlfriend know better than to make out with another guy infront of you... yes of course. You should have told your gf not to make out with him right off the bat. look when you read my post call her up imeadetly and ither break up with her or tell her never kiss or do anything sexual with another guy as long as your with me no matter who they are. I mean if she introduced the guy as her gay married brother you still should object to a guy kissing her even if they did used to do it all the time.

[boshemia]

I was a bit taken aback by the question, and wasn't sure what to say.

 

But I didn't want to be seen as interfering with their friendship -- especially not by Terry.

 

And with him sitting right there, I felt I had no choice but to say yes.

 

I've only very vaguely hinted at my discomfort with this situation.

 

Yet I'm afraid to say anything outright, for fear that I'll be seen as interfering with their friendship, fear that she'll be upset with me

 

How should I feel? What should I do?

 

 

And where exactly are your rights in this relationship, you worry about your girlfriends feelings, your worry about her friends feelings... but nobody is worrying about yours.

 

I'm not even a jealous person... I can handle more than most, but I would be livid about the lack of respect both parties were showing me.

 

Yeah, so... you should have said something sooner, but you didn't. So why does that mean you waived your rights to say something forever?

 

I'd say leave her and her gay boyfriend to their strange little relationship and find someone who has more respect for you than that.

[epicurean]

The thing, though, is that I didn't just not say anything about it. I told her that it was okay. I'm not sure how to deal with it now without feeling like I was deceiving her -- or being perceived as having deceived her. Another problem is that she's expressed discomfort when I've brought up things that she thought had been settled long ago.

 

Also, not sure how relevant it is, but I should probably point out that it's not something that happens often, if only because they don't see each other much anymore. But it does happen.

 

She's also claimed that she doesn't really want to make out with him, and that he always initiates it. At the New Year's party, though, I witnessed her request that he kiss her on the cheek.

[Green]

ummm earth to epicurian, so what tell her u never did like it no matter what u said in the past and just explain the way you did to us. there really shouldnt be to much explaining because it should be obviouse to most people even her why you would be uncomfortable. if she says but you said it was ok why change ur mind now just say I should have never said it was ok it sucks and i dont ever want to see you kissing other people as long as your with me. I mean if you want to be in an open relationship thats one thing but u just need to be honest and stop this, but how do I tell my gf its not ok to kiss other guys mode u seem to be in