Just devasted! Is there hope?

[Amneris]

(LONG)

Last week I called my boyfriend finally after being afraid he was going to break up with me and he asked me why I hadn't called for so long. I told him and he told me he thought I hadn't called because I had broken up with HIM.

 

The misunderstanding was cleared up and things were back to "normal" and we had very sweet conversations and he told me he couldn't believe how calm I was compared to before. I started taking mild antidepressants the week before because I had been in such a nervous state that I was crying all the time, and it was probaby due to that. I told him I didn't think it would be the end of the world if we broke up and that if he didn't want to see me during the December break that was okay too, as I was thinking about going to Mexico by myself.

His response was, "I want to be with you very much right now. We'll see what happens, how it goes with your moods."

 

Anyhow on Saturday I spoke with him again and everything was fine except I got upset when he told me that his ex-girlfriend was taking him to see a piano concert. He told me there was no reason to be upset or worry because he had absolutely no intention of getting back with her even though she apparenlty "dreams" about it. This made me even more upset and angry and he asked me if I wanted to call her up and fight with her.

"I'll give her a piece of my mind!" I said, then he told me it would be silly and useless and I agreed. The thing that upset me was that when we were last together in his city I met his ex-girlfriend briefly and my boyfriend asked her if she wanted to have coffee with us and she couldn't. Another time she called him and I spoke with her on the phone in a friendly manner (just small talk) and he asked her again if she wanted to go out with us, but she couldn't. NOW that I'm not there it seems like she's trying everything she can to see him. For example, he told me she bought a piano and wanted him to come over to practice on it, but he refused because he didn't want to be alone with her knowing how she felt about him.

Just so you know, his ex is over 25 years older than me (his way reassuring me she is no competion for me), and is of a religion his children would never accept. He told her many times in the past that he could never marry her or live with her because of this and he also found her boring on an intellectual level.

 

Anyhow, he called me right away after he came back from the concert to tell me he had had a very bad evening with her because she had annoyed her in such a way that he didn't ever want to do anything with her again. He had told her that I was upset that she was taking him out and her response was,"Why do you have to tell her?" and his response was,"Why not? There is nothing romantic going on between you and I."

 

TO get to the point, we had a tension-filled conversation later wherein he told me he was disappointed in my jealous reactions because he thought I had "calmed" down with the pills. I told him he shouldn't expect a miracle in only a week and he agreed. He told me he had been thinking of going to Mexico with me a few days ago, but now he wasn't sure and he didn't want to take any risk until he was sure we wouldn't argue anymore or have what he calls "investigations."

I told him I wanted to see him and that it wasn't normal to go so long not being in physical contact with him. He agreed, but wanted to wait a few weeks to be sure.

I got impatient and swore, not at him, but just out loud, and he thought I was angry at him.

The thing that confused and drove me crazy was that he would say things like, "we don't have a committment to each other because we havn't decided yet if we will live together," with opposing things like, "I don't want to break up with you" and "We have an agreement. We don't have sex with other people as long as we are together."

 

Things calmed down and we said goodnight, but then he calls me back at 1:30 in the morning to tell me he just woke up with heart palpitations and he couldn't breath because our conversation upset him. I told him to call 911 or go to the hospital, but he said he'd be okay.

THen he started telling me that he never felt so pushed by me before and that he thought I wanted to control him and this was eating away at his sub-conscious and he thought it was a thing of "character" that might not be able to change. He then told me he didn't want me to call him and to be sure I wouldn't, that he wanted to be in control of who calls when, that he needed time and whenever or if he would be ready he would call me.

I said, "okay" without getting upset then I told him that I didn't think it was my fault he had palpitations, that he had a problem and should see a psychiatrist. To my surprize he agreed with me and said he would seek help.

 

He told me he loved me very much, but this was not good for his health and he wanted this to be the last time we argue, so that is why he put in the "no call" thing, but he said I could write.

 

I cried and he said, "Please don't cry honey."

I asked him if he wanted to be with me or not, and he said "I want to very much, very much. When I'll be ready I'll call however long it takes. Just remember that I will be thinking of you all the time. If it is fate that we will be together we will be together"

Then I asked him if we still had our agreement that if one of us should have sex with someone else, we tell. He told me he wasn't looking for it and that besides, he was so depressed and lonely lately that he couldn't even get an erection (meaning when he pleasures himself).

 

When we hung up I couldn't sleep the whole night, but I was not crying. The next day is when it HIT me really hard and I sunk back down into my dreadful, bleak depression, the only different thing was that I wasn't so high strung and sobbing incessantly.

 

Please help me understand what to do now. Is this it? Is this the final straw? or is there still hope?

 

You must realize that this ONLY ever happens this bad when we are apart. I regret the decision I made to finish university so far away and this kind of telephone relationship does no good at all!!

 

Do you think he'll ever call me again? Should I write?

Do you think he's missing me right now?

[butterflyz]

you lead a very exhausting life, i thought i did.

 

this game of being apart and who calls who has to be annoying you, it's annoying me and i'm not in this relationship.

 

you need to ask yourself how to get around this cycle. why is he going out with ex girlfriends? that is inappropriate.

 

the pills don't kick in for one month, so hang in there.

 

you need to resolve this once and for all. emotionally it is destroying you.

 

so he is wondering about you character, that's okay. people should do that more often. maybe we'd make better decisions about who we date.

 

no one knows but him if he's stringing you along, but that's what is appears after reading all of your posts.

 

find someone that appreciates you.

[midori]

butterflyz is absolutely right.

 

Why go out with the annoying ex who clearly has designs on him? And why make such a point of telling you in elaborate detail? And then, why get mad at your jealous reaction?

 

How old is this guy? Sounds rather old to be engaged in "I thought that you thought so I didn't call and then you said this and I thought it was over" crap.

 

This sounds like a relationship that would be long dead if you weren't frantically pounding its chest to keep the heart beating. At what cost to you?

[Amneris]

He is twice my age.

Can you just please answer some of the questions I wrote in the first post as you see I am not ready to let this go even though intellectually I should. I love him too much to just walk away.

 

Please don't be angry with me for this. I know it can frustrate peope who "see" the bigger picture, but it's easier said than done. If I was going to walk away I wouldn't need to post on here. I have to make that decision when I feel it is time.

 

His ex-girlfriend is clearly a pain in the a** but I am not worried that he would ever go back to her. My anger was more because she knew it would upset me and that's the only thing she can do at this stage because he clearly does not ever want to go back to her. She even told me this the first time I met her. THey've known each other over 12 years and as he said, he only let her take him because he doesn't have a car and wanted to see this concert.

[midori]

Originally posted by Amneris

My anger was more because she knew it would upset me and that's the only thing she can do at this stage because he clearly does not ever want to go back to her. She even told me this the first time I met her. THey've known each other over 12 years and as he said, he only let her take him because he doesn't have a car and wanted to see this concert.

 

You've answered your own question. Directing your anger at her is pointless. She would not be able to influence you and your relationship with this guy if HE didn't allow it.

 

You're with a guy who uses people for rides and other conveniences, even though he knows that in doing so he is a) encouraging unrealistic hope in her that they will get back together, and b) damaging his current relationship.

 

If he was genuinely interested in being fair to either you or her he would cease all contact with her. Until he does so, permanently, it's a safe bet that he just doesn't care about your feelings or her well-being. Sounds like a selfish jerk.

 

That's as specific as I can get.

[Amneris]

I can't sleep.. One is an unrelated reason, that my roomates are making noise in the kitchen and it is driving me crazy because I almost fell into a peaceful sleep, the other is because I keep thinking about my current situation.

 

I know I probably shouldn't call him and I certainly won't do it now at this hour, but I keep thinking about doing it.

 

I sent him a letter yesterday which he won't get until at least Monday (he likes getting letters and told me to write). In the past whenever we've had one of these "breaks" and we've not communicated, usually almost always he has responded to my letters by calling, but this doesn't mean it will happen this time.

 

How long should I wait if he doesn't call for me to call? Or better yet, perhaps should I have my best friend call him for me so he doesn't feel like I broke my promise of not calling him? This has worked in the past when I was too emotional to deal with. Sometimes its easier if a neutral party intervenes. What should I do?

Thanks for any input or suggestions

[butterflyz]

get over this guy.

 

he is like a bad drug addiction. try to develop a life outside of him. i know you'll say it is easier said than done. but please do it. you sound so desperate. and no one wants anyone that is desperate in their lives (turn off).

 

don't use a friend to call. just let him go.

[Ally Boo]

Ok I just got around to reading your post, and it is obvious that this guy is playing mind games with you. I think he's trying to make you THINK that you are trying to be in control, and he is the control freak. He disrespects you, by being around his ex who has strong feelings for him...knowing it upsets you, then TELLS HER ABOUT IT! Um excuse me?!?

 

Ok then he's going to break up with you, and basically tell you just to hang on and wait for him to come back...whenever he's ready. And tell you that he's not gonna look for sex. Riiiiiiiight. He's probably already boning his ex.

 

The more I think about this post, the more angry this guy makes me. Please do not have your friend call him, and don't you call him either. Instead, work on getting over him, and hopefully, you'll see what we all see.

[Amneris]

I know you only want to help me and what you say is true, but it is so hard to let this thing go.

 

When I first read Butterfly's post this morning I felt worse and started crying, but then I said to myself that is was my own fault for posting in the first place as what should I expect? I wonder if I like to torture myself because when I am calm and alone I don't get as upset, but as soon as I involve other people (ask for advice ect.) I feel worse afterwards.

 

I'm just looking for something to make me feel better. Even a critisism of my boyfriend or knowing that he might be suffering at this point will make me feel better.

[Ally Boo]

LOOK At WHAT HE HAS DONE TO YOU!!!! LOOK AT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?!?!

 

I can only IMAGINE how your friends talk to you, bc they love you and hate seeing you in this position. We are all essentially strangers, and it pisses me off beyond BELIEF!

 

This guy is wacko! For REAL! And he's brain washed you too! STEP AWAY FROM THIS PERSON IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!! IT IS TOXIC!

 

And as far as you getting hurt when you involve other people. You probably just hate knowing the real truth. And as long as you are in your own little world with no one involved, you can "pretend" that it's not the way it actually IS, and therefore your problem "goes away." But see, it doesn't go away, and it hasn't gone away, and unti you deal with it, you are going to lose more and more of your saneity.

 

You may think it's not upsetting you, but trust me, this is making you age faster, probably effecting your eating habits, etc. In other words, you are expressing your feelings that you won't deal with, in other ways that you probably don't even realize.

 

Trust me, its gonna hurt, and its gonna hurt bad for a while. But ya know, I've been there too. All of us have...but the truth is, he doesn't love you. And the more you think about your situation in realistic terms, the more you'll realize this.

 

You are brain washed, and your self esteem is shattered. You NEED help. And this individual has no reason to play this power trip game with you. And the only way there is a game...is when there are players. So YOU need to turn your cards in and walk away!

[Ally Boo]

I don't mean to come across as harsh. Just so you know...

[butterflyz]

i never like to hurt anyone

 

i said what i said because i see you losing your heart for a man. do you hear what i said......."a man".

 

he is not god, he is not your lucky charm, pot of gold over the rainbow, he is just a man. a man who likes to play games with you. HE DOES NOT LOVE YOU.

 

any man that would toy with the emotions of a woman who loves him, is scum. period. end of story.

 

but, you need to examine why you would choose to love someone who doesn't love you. i can't stand seeing people pursue others when it is clear that the feelings are not reciprocated. that's where the desperacy sets in. and once that sets in, the person becomes consumed with the object of their affection and the cycle gets worse.

 

i understand the emotional behavior when you talk about your problems to others. when i address hurtful feelings when i'm confiding, i will cry if i hurt bad enough. i used to try and stop it because then people would think i was weak (so i thought). i really don't care, if i'm hurting i'm gonna cry. if it bothers them, then they don't have to talk to me.

 

but please, please, please find a way out of this mess. it will never work out. one thing i learned about men is this:

if a man doesn't know if he wants you.........then he doesn't want you.

[midori]

Originally posted by butterflyz

if a man doesn't know if he wants you.........then he doesn't want you.

 

This is so very very true, and it's one of the hardest things to see when you want to believe otherwise.

 

But it's that simple. I thought I posted a reply to your post from last night but I think I put it in the wrong place. Won't reiterate it now (Allyboo & Butterflyz have said it even better). But instead I'll say this: he is not the route to happiness for you now, nor will he be in the future. For some reason you've working from a script that says he is, but that's very clearly not the case. There are typo's in that script, it's the wrong draft. You need to put it in the shredder and start working on a new and better version.

 

Maybe there are other, pragmatic reasons why you need to believe that he loves you and that things with THIS guy can and should work out. Is he wealthy or at least able to support you in a style you'd like, and without him you don't know how you'll make ends meet? Is he cultured or connected to things that you want to be a part of? Or is it just that you can't bear the thought of being alone, and with no one else on the horizon you're stuck on him? There must be reasons why you're holding onto something that so clearly gives you nothing in terms of security, or feeling loved.

 

If you've got to focus on something regarding your relationship with him, focus on figuring out why, exactly, it means so much to you that you're scrapping your dignity and tormenting yourself just to hold onto it. He is so clearly not worth it -- any outsider can see that. Whatever good qualities you and you alone know that he has can't make up for the enormous flaws that are clear to everyone. He's not making you happy. So I rather doubt that you're hanging in there because he's got these fantastic qualities. What are the real reasons then?

 

I'll bet there's something in you that is making you want to stay. Doesn't have to be insecurity *per se* or even masochism. I've never bought the story that women only like men who treat them poorly. That's a surface generalization. But is it possible that you think that the only way you'll get a guy to stay with you is if it's clear to him that he's lucky to have you? And to do that you might be willing to forgive and forget, have the patience and understanding of a saint, basically obliterate yourself just to make him see how lucky he is that, despite his blatant and numerous flaws, a wonderful person like you loves him anyway. There are many reasons why that's a bad idea, but the biggest one is that, in order for it to work out that way, he would have to recognize that what he's doing is wrong, and that he has been behaving like a selfish jerk, and is thus lucky to still have your love.

 

Doesn't sound like that's going to happen. Because once he recognized that, he'd have to change his ways. You don't see too many people walking around saying, "hey, yeah, I'm a selfish pr*ck, but my friends don't seem to mind and my girlfriend loves me anyway. Works for me." Once people actually become aware of their flaws they usually try to fix them. If they don't want to fix them, they won't recognize their flaws. In which case they won't think they have anything to be thankful for -- they won't see all that you put up with from them. It's called denial.

 

Realizing that the person you love is incapable of returning the sentiment is an awful thing to go through. I know because I've been through it myself. But it is so obvious that he only cares about himself and expects you to swallow your pride, forget your needs and just go along with his agenda. He feels no obligation to you. Whatever good things he has done were done, I'll bet, on a whim that made him look good and kind and generous. He won't do anything for you if it inconveniences him in the least. That is not love. That is pure selfishness.

 

No one here can say something that is going to make this any easier for you emotionally. You're still going to have sleepless nights. You're still going to want to cry. Live through that and come out the other side stronger and happier. The only thing that might help you, if you've got the courage and determination to take it on, is this: it's over, he doesn't love you, you cannot salvage this. You are far better off without him.

 

Sorry. Good luck. Keep writing.

[Ally Boo]

Originally posted by midori

For some reason you've working from a script that says he is, but that's very clearly not the case. There are typo's in that script, it's the wrong draft. You need to put it in the shredder and start working on a new and better version.

 

GREAT analogy!!

[Stuck]

Dear Amneris

 

Don't feel bad about feeling bad. Don't feel bad about "letting this thing go" as you wrote above. Maybe you feel like you've invested a lot in this relationship and you want to see if it's going to pay off. Don't. Listen to what people on this board are saying to you, or try to anyway.

 

You are probably thinking "but they don't see his good points...I only wrote the bad parts." Yes, that may be true, but his bad parts are AWFUL.

 

I did the exact same thing three years ago. I was with someone - I still don't even know why I felt I just HAD to be with him - in a relationship that clearly was not going anywhere. Our good times were very good, but our bad times were outrageous. He would disappear for days (or just not answer his phone) and I would destroy myself wondering where he was, what he was thinking, etc. Then we'd have a big fight, then we'd make up.

This is not a healthy relationship. I'm not even sure it was a relationship, but for whatever reason I decided I needed him. I should've let it die months before I did. I spent months crying. I cried in front of professors, I cried on the bus, I cried in my room.

 

One of my friends used to cook me lunch and bring it to me so that I would eat a few bites every day. I'm sure she wanted to just slap me and say "HE'S A DIRT BAG!!!" but she didn't. I was also finishing up my master's degree at the time. I even moved cities (countries, to be honest) when it was all over to help move on (literally, I guess!).

 

You don't NEED this drama. There are guys out there who will cherish you, and love you, and not play these games. Find one of them.

 

Maybe you are afraid to let it go because you are trying to avoid that huge pain of loneliness that follows. It goes away. Don't avoid it. It's going to be terrible for a while, but just cut him loose. Be strong. He's not the last guy out there. Go play "I will survive" a few times, really loudly. Dance. Sing. But really, please, be good to yourself.

[butterflyz]

you'll feel the pangs of loneliness initially, but it will subside.

 

you'll even feel regret, letting go, but stick to your decision. any time i initially felt regret letting a man go has always led to me feeling good about it in the end.

[Amneris]

Thanks for all the concern and time and effort spent reading and answering my posts.

Last night he called me (he got my letter) and left a message which I didn't answer, but then he called again and I spoke to him and for a whole hour I listened to him talk about his history of panic attacks and heart palpitations which he explained had happened before he knew me and that I wasn't responsible for them.

He wanted to keep it like this, where only he calls me because he's afraid of getting into another arguement. By this time, I was starting to feel like I really did want to get rid of him (isn't that bizarre??). Then he told me to write him another letter and that he'd call me when he got it, like rewarding a child for tidying their room! Unbelievable!

 

NOw that I am on a more of an UP (he called at least so I still feel better) HOW can I start changing my habits and life style so that I am in a position to meet other people and forget about him?

[butterflyz]

i'm in a solitary phase of my life right now, and that is how i prefer to keep it (the guy that is obsessed with me uses "friends" and "lovers" to hurt me, sabatoge my life and find out info on me) so it is best that i keep things this way for now. and i really don't mind. with everything i've been through, i have become MORE independent from people.

 

but i won't feel like dating for a long time. i need to clean up some things personally and i need to do it alone because i'm the only one i trust now at all.

 

but for you, i can give you the standard "meeting people" replies:

-get involved with a hobby group or church or synagogue group

-exercise - you'll meet people at the gym or the athletic field

-go to charity functions, it seems to be the "in thing" in terms of meeting other like-minded people

-singles events etc.

 

it is probably best that you increase your circle of friends first. reason being is that you can build a support group and they also serve as introductions to other friends and possibly lovers

 

hope that helps

[butterflyz]

i forgot something very important. you need to uncover why you held onto this guy for so long.

 

in other words you need to examine your choices in life and why you make the ones you make. then it may uncover a whole host of issues. so it may mean a lot of personal growth work, but you'll be a whole lot happier and make better choices in the people you let into your life.