norajane Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Is anyone familiar with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - the Mormons? I'm reading a book that gives some background on the Church, and I'm amazed to find that 12.5 million people worldwide follow the teachings of this religion - compared to 14 million Jews worldwide. The story in the Book of Mormom seems so...farfetched...starting with the emigration of one of the lost tribes of Israel to America in 600 BC on a boat, a visit to the tribe by Jesus during his resurrection, and culminating with the belief that the Mormons are the true 'chosen people'...the Latter-day Saints...and when Jesus comes back, he's coming for them. Other Christians are supposedly all wrong, and took a wrong turn some time after the ascension of Christ into heaven. LDS is the 'true religion'. I'm finding it even more amazing that 12.5 million people have bought into the story of how the Book of Mormon originated...in the 1830's, the Angel Moroni came to Joseph Smith - a pretty shady character, IMO - and told him where to find an ancient book written on golden pages in Egyptian-type hieroglyphics (buried in a hill in Palmyra, New York ), and gave him "golden spectacles" with which to translate the hieroglyphics. And then there's all the stuff with the Phrophets (Church leader) receiving periodic revelations from God... I know how this became such a huge relgion - combination of be fruitful and multiply and don't use any birth control, as well as a history of serious proselytizing around the world, plus the beneficial effect of Church wealth due to tithing... Yet...how did this become such a huge religion??? Link to post Share on other sites
lovelorcet Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I brainwashed group of people... Just like every other religon... Link to post Share on other sites
Author norajane Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 I brainwashed group of people... Just like every other religon... Yes...but I think it also has to do with what he preached...there are lots of 'sects' and 'cults' and offshoots of this and that, yet the Saints have thrived and grown to become the world's 10th or 11th largest religion in a very short time - since the 1830's. So, were people drawn to the idea that they were the real chosen people? Or were they drawn to the teaching that "Man is that he might have joy", one of the first significant pronouncements of the Book of Mormon? While other religious groups, like the Calvinists, preached hellfire and brimstone and that man was inherently evil, Smith was preaching that man was inherently virtuous, and didn't need to atone for anything. Link to post Share on other sites
boshemia Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I married a Mormon, though I find that he really has no knowledge of his own religion... he just is one. I have a lot of family in the mormon church, and since I live close to Utah, many of the prominent members of our community and surrounding communities are Mormon. I wont comment on the philisophical differences, because I tend to believe ones religion is a very private manner. On the people I have had personal contact with, I do admire most of them. They have a very strong commitment to family, and to the community. I lived in Utah for six months, and never had to open a door or carry my own groceries one. When it snowed almost three feet a group of young boys came by my house and asked if they could shovel my walk, I told them I had no money and that said that's okay. They did it anyway, and for free. They even had their Dad come and help dig my vehicles out of the driveway. Most of them were polite, and they had the most amazingly well behaved children. Some of the neighbors did have more than one wife, which isn't accepted by the mainstream church as I understand, but they all seemed very happy together. That's all I really know, but I do find them to all be very kind people. Link to post Share on other sites
Mark B Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I often tend to forget that Utah exists Link to post Share on other sites
boshemia Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 lol, yes Utah does indeed exist, it's only about 50-60 miles from where I sit at the moment, as are New Mexico and Arizona... And at the risk of offending some... I'll take Colorado anyday, Utah is indeed forgettable. I've driven across it many times, and nothing really changes... it just goes on, and on, and... yeah... kind of like me : ) Link to post Share on other sites
lovelorcet Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Mormons are so successful due to their well organized sense of community. They run a tight ship... Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I had a superb experience with the Mennonites..... superb! Over 200 volunteers that never ever once attempted to convert me they came they helped and they were awesome!! Just awesome. For a week they toiled, busted butt, and never once tried to tell me they were what I needed...... they just helped..... amazing. Truly amazing. Not ever a word of God...... maybe they are people of action and not words and that is why I actually found myself in deep respect for them. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Mormons are so successful due to their well organized sense of community. They run a tight ship...Their wives do what their told......sorry.....had to throw that in there.....but it's true..... Link to post Share on other sites
lovelorcet Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Their wives do what their told......sorry.....had to throw that in there.....but it's true..... Do you think they get more BJ's becuse of this? Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Do you think they get more BJ's becuse of this?I hardly doubt it. My sister's boss is mormon and he treats women like crap, but his wife and daughters are very submissive.....creepy submissive even..... Link to post Share on other sites
Topper Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I have lived around Mormons for many years. If you live anywhere in the mountain west you will find many Mormons. For the most part they are polite honest hard working people. I have never once been approached by a missionary. I agree the book of Mormon is a rather far fetched story. Joseph Smith was a very Charismatic man. His myrterdom only made his story more compelling. The real Driving force behind the LDS Chruch we Know today Is Brigham Young. He was the one who built an Empire in a then very remote part of the West. There is a very good and balanced book on the Mormon Chruch called Mormon America, by Richard and Joan Ostling. It is well worth reading. It really does show the good and the Bad about the LDS chruch. Link to post Share on other sites
Author norajane Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 On the people I have had personal contact with, I do admire most of them. They have a very strong commitment to family, and to the community. I lived in Utah for six months, and never had to open a door or carry my own groceries one. When it snowed almost three feet a group of young boys came by my house and asked if they could shovel my walk, I told them I had no money and that said that's okay. They did it anyway, and for free. They even had their Dad come and help dig my vehicles out of the driveway. Most of them were polite, and they had the most amazingly well behaved children. Some of the neighbors did have more than one wife, which isn't accepted by the mainstream church as I understand, but they all seemed very happy together. That's all I really know, but I do find them to all be very kind people. I have lived around Mormons for many years. If you live anywhere in the mountain west you will find many Mormons. For the most part they are polite honest hard working people. I have never once been approached by a missionary. That's been my experience, too. I used to work very closely with a Mormon guy, and he was one of the kindest, honest, and admirable people I've known. His family was wonderful, and the kids were all straight arrows. I know service to the community is one of their main tenets as well, particularly to those less fortunate. I agree the book of Mormon is a rather far fetched story. Joseph Smith was a very Charismatic man. His myrterdom only made his story more compelling. The real Driving force behind the LDS Chruch we Know today Is Brigham Young. He was the one who built an Empire in a then very remote part of the West. There is a very good and balanced book on the Mormon Chruch called Mormon America, by Richard and Joan Ostling. It is well worth reading. It really does show the good and the Bad about the LDS chruch.Joseph Smith is where I get really stuck in all this. Yes, he was very charismatic, and he was also quite a fraud in his financial dealings. And, to some extent, the "revelations" he received from God were self-serving, particularly the one about polygamy. He was a serial cheater, frequented whorehouses, and struggled to find a way to legitimize his desire to have sex with lots of women...he turned to the Bible and found Abraham as justification for God's "revelation" that his chosen people should take more than one wife. Smith was actually tarred and feathered once by a group of people who discovered his actions with one young girl, and ultimately took over 40 "wives". His first wife, Emma, was livid about his activities, and Smith supposedly had another revelation from God which named Emma specifically about how she was to accept his shenanigans. It's interesting to note that the polygamy revelation wasn't something he dared to make public while he was still alive. It was only after he was killed that the next Prophet made it public. The LDS Church eventually dropped that from their teachings. But there are still many who practice it, though they are not considered to be a part of the LDS Church and are considered fundamentalists. I haven't learned much about Brigham Young yet - thanks for the book recommendation. Link to post Share on other sites
Star Gazer Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I agree NJ - it all seems like a bunch of B.S., doesn't it? But like the others have said, all the mormons I know are absolutely lovely people. Link to post Share on other sites
Storyrider Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 It confuses me also how the background of LDS seems so farfetched and unappealing, yet many of the people are such shining examples of purity and goodness. We were friends with a mormon couple who were as other posters described: articulate, friendly, warm, and just all around good citizens. They invited us to many of their events and I think would have loved to convert us but were never pushy about it. I was always amazed to see in their faces this glowing goodness almost shining out of them. Mormons aren't the only ones who have this quality, but I have noticed it especially in Mormons. Of course, no alcohol and no caffeine might contribute to that glowing, healthy look! Link to post Share on other sites
a4a Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Of course, no alcohol and no caffeine might contribute to that glowing, healthy look! or the "special" Kool Aid Link to post Share on other sites
Topper Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 There isa joke about Mormon Culture and it's prohibitions on Adult beverages. If you go on a Fishing trip and want to share your Beer invite a Mormon friend to join you. If You want to keep the Beer for yourself Invite two Mormon friends along. The City of Provo is about 90% LDS. It is Known as Happy Valley or sometimes Pro sac Valley. A closer look and you do see a lot of hidden pain in the LDS Chruch. It is also well Known that there isa high rate of suicide amoung young men in the LDS Chruch. Many can't deal with homosexual feeling and the teaching of the LDS chruch. Since the chruch is more then just a place you go on Sunday. it is also your family and social network. Another good book on The Fundamentalist Mormon chruch is, Under the Banner of Heaven, by Jon Krakauer, I really like this guys writing it is an excellent read. Link to post Share on other sites
Author norajane Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 Another good book on The Fundamentalist Mormon chruch is, Under the Banner of Heaven, by Jon Krakauer, I really like this guys writing it is an excellent read. That's the book I'm reading! I picked it up at the airport the other day because I liked Krakauer's "Into Thin Air"... Link to post Share on other sites
Topper Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 If you like Into thin Air pick up Into the Wilderness. There are some other books on some parts of the LDS history that I find incruedable. One is on the Mountain Meadows Massacre by Will Baggley. Polygamy in Joe Smiths time was an open secret many Chruch leaders were practicing Polygamy. Yet officially they always denied it. Brigham Young was the Next Profit after Smith. He is the one who lead Mormons to Utah. He was smart cunning and ruthless with those that opposed him. He also had something like 50 wives. He had a body guard by the name of Porter Rockwell. Porter Rockwell was told by Smith as long as he never cut his hair no man could ever kill him. It is thought that Rockwell killed over 153 men. How many were ordered by Young is not Known. Making him one of the west biggest Killers. Yet little is Known about him. Link to post Share on other sites
Author norajane Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 If you like Into thin Air pick up Into the Wilderness. There are some other books on some parts of the LDS history that I find incruedable. One is on the Mountain Meadows Massacre by Will Baggley. Polygamy in Joe Smiths time was an open secret many Chruch leaders were practicing Polygamy. Yet officially they always denied it. Brigham Young was the Next Profit after Smith. He is the one who lead Mormons to Utah. He was smart cunning and ruthless with those that opposed him. He also had something like 50 wives. He had a body guard by the name of Porter Rockwell. Porter Rockwell was told by Smith as long as he never cut his hair no man could ever kill him. It is thought that Rockwell killed over 153 men. How many were ordered by Young is not Known. Making him one of the west biggest Killers. Yet little is Known about him. See, this is exactly the crux of why I'm having so much trouble wrapping my mind around this. As Storyrider and Stargazer and others have said, Mormons seem to be lovely people, yet the origins of their beliefs and the circumstances around them are just so distasteful. Of course, one could also say something similar about other forms of Christianity.... Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 A's comment, maybe they are people of action and not words and that is why I actually found myself in deep respect for them, is the defining point of a truly spiritual person, in my opinion, because it's those acts of goodness and love toward others that reflect the values of the God they want people to know. Not condemnation of people who don't believe as they do ... Link to post Share on other sites
Author norajane Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 A's comment, maybe they are people of action and not words and that is why I actually found myself in deep respect for them, is the defining point of a truly spiritual person, in my opinion, because it's those acts of goodness and love toward others that reflect the values of the God they want people to know. Not condemnation of people who don't believe as they do ... Yes, but a4a referred to Mennonites, who are a completely different religious group. I do see your point, though. Link to post Share on other sites
Topper Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 All religions have a lot of blood on their hands. All say God is love yet we humans tend to show that love by violent acts. We are indeed strange creatures. What stands out most in the founding of The LDS chruch is that so much of this happened in this country and in a not so distant past. Link to post Share on other sites
axisdenied Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I live in a community that is 20-30% mormon. There is an excellent book called The Ins and Outs of Mormonism. It's a personal account of involvement with the church after being converted and contains much historical information from experts interviewed by the author. A good read if you're curious about their organization. To answer the original question 'Why such a large following?' I am inclined to believe that it is a combination of missionary work and breeding. Around this area, mormon couples have a tendency to produce large families. An earlier poster referred to the organization as a "tight ship" and that is true. They send home teachers to both members' and non-members' homes to reinforce the philosophies behind the religion. This on top of incredible community involvement, especially for children. If one is born into it, it's really difficult to separate from the church. There are plenty of "jack mormons" (inactive members) that are probably included in the statistics you saw. This accounts for the majority of members from the US. Members outside the US are most likely converts. Missionaries are sent throughout the world, even to places with serious domestic problems. So yeah, that's why. Active mormons appear to be very happy on a whole and it's hard to dissuade anybody from participating in such an elating experience. Even if the stories look like BS to the rest of us. Link to post Share on other sites
boshemia Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I don't know why I felt the need to share this... but interesting tidbit. My great aunt is "old school" mormon, and I've met others as well. Do you know that the women have "holy underwear" lol No kidding. My Aunt says she had to take them to the temple to be blessed, They are actually more like an old fashioned bathing suit, and cover everything. She says she is NEVER allowed to take them off! Ever. When she takes one pair off she slips them down one leg while she is slipping the new pair on the other. She even has to bathe with them touching her... She is a very subserviant wife, but she says that if she is a good wife in this world she will get to stay with her husband in the "Celestial" Kingdom, Apparently her husband will get to inheret his own planet, which he will get to be God over. She gets to have babies eternally to populate this planet. Multiple Wives, Subservient wives, their own planted and they actually get to be God. The wives are rewarded by bearing children eternally... Are you sure this was founded by a MAN? LOL, but as I said before, my great aunt is amazingly devoted to the family... I watched a story on Brigham Young, and was amazed at the strength of his family values considering how many wives and children were involved. Link to post Share on other sites
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