in denial about emotional abuse

[Sun_Conure]

My counselor thinks that I have been emotionally abused for a long time (first childhood, then marriage, and lately the guy I was seeing). I am learning how to establish boundaries in relationships but it is so hard. The problem is that I do not even admit to myself that I am in abusive relationship. I know it sounds absurd but I prefer to ignor some of the stuff he says to me and kind of consiously try not to think about that, like forget. It bothers me that I kind of know and do not know at the same time. WHAT TO DO? I really want to get out of that harmful relationship (emotional abuse). Today I feel like not talking to him ever, however, tomorrow when I am in a better mood I will "forget" it again and think that he is a nice guy. Any ideas?

 

I am seeing a counselor by the way. She seems to give up on my so called relationship thing.

[lonelybird]

You admit you are in denia. so every time he did it, can you write them down to remind yourself and him? Do you write emotion diary? Did you tell him that he hurt you? IF YOU don't tell him where he offened you, how can he and others know? if you ignore it, it is like you are encouraging him to do so.

To build a healthy boundary, we should know where the boundary should lay. and before this if we can know ourselves better, it would be easier to define the boundary

[boshemia]

I know the feeling, I still fight the labels, abuse, victim, survivor, they all make me uneasy. I just finally realized that I do deserve better, I deserve to live in a home that isn't centered around one persons mood, I deserve to be in a relationship where I am an equal, not a servant. I deserve to be happy...

 

And the forgetting part? People who suffer long term abuse learn that nifty little trick just to get by. It's sort of a form of denial I think, but it's something more. I dealt with each drama in the same way...

 

I went into survival mode, deal with only what we have to deal with just to get through this episode and then put it behind us as soon as we can. There's a strange numbness, an emotional detachment, that's what allows us to keep going.

 

And the part about you preferring to ignore him, you aren't ignoring it really. It's there, it still hurts... you are just chosing not to feel the hurt. You will, eventually... it always comes back...

 

Whyat really helped me see the pattern was my writing, my journals, my posts here and in other groups... when I read back through them I see a very clear cycle, many events that I have actually forgotten, but so much hurt... each time I would forget and go on, but seeing them all together, one after the other makes me sad... that's what keeps me from going back...

 

just remembering how much hurt there has been...

[Kwo-ne'-she]

As boshemia mentioned, I found writing to be very therapeutic. It allows you to get the feelings out, express what is going on inside of you. Keeping a journal is one way of doing that. You can be completely honest about how you are feeling, knowing that no one else can read it, unless you allow them to. It's "safe", if that makes sense. No one will be judging your thoughts, feelings, or mistakes.

 

Posting on forums like this one can also be extremely helpful. It is a place to reach out to others who are in/have been in similar situations. You get feedback from people who have some understanding of what you are going through, without the repercussions you might have had you "confided" in a RL friend or family member.

 

One other thing, that helped me, was writing letters "to" my abusers. I chose an online blog, and set it to private, where no one else could see. I then wrote to them. All the things I wanted to say, and couldn't, or wouldn't. These "letters" will never be viewed by the abusers. But for some reason, just writing "to" them, allowed me to get a lot of unspoken hurt, anger, and sadness out. The things I typed were directly to them, rather than the story-telling we do on sites like this, or with RL friends.

 

More than a year out from the last abusive relationship, I can look back on some of the things I wrote when I was neck-deep in it, and see the changes in me. Changes for the better. The progress I have made. At times, I start to slip back into the old me, and I immediately go reread certain things, to remind myself how much better my life is now, without all of that drama.

 

In many ways, being a victim of abuse is a choice we make. We allow it to happen. Enable the abusers to continue the cycle. At some point, we have to accept our responsibility in it, and vow to make a change. To stop the abuse. We can not control other's behavior, only our own.

 

There is hope. It took me one very long, physically & emotionally abusive marriage, and two emotionally abusive bfs to finally break my own cycle. You can do it.

[luvtoto]

My counselor thinks that I have been emotionally abused for a long time (first childhood, then marriage, and lately the guy I was seeing). I am learning how to establish boundaries in relationships but it is so hard. The problem is that I do not even admit to myself that I am in abusive relationship. I know it sounds absurd but I prefer to ignor some of the stuff he says to me and kind of consiously try not to think about that, like forget. It bothers me that I kind of know and do not know at the same time. WHAT TO DO? I really want to get out of that harmful relationship (emotional abuse). Today I feel like not talking to him ever, however, tomorrow when I am in a better mood I will "forget" it again and think that he is a nice guy. Any ideas?

 

I am seeing a counselor by the way. She seems to give up on my so called relationship thing.

You are not in denial, you see that there is a problem.

 

What you are trying to do here is rise above your comfort zone. You've been abused your entire life. You think it's all you deserve.

 

You choose to ignore the abuse as a survival technique.

 

How long have you been in counseling? That is your key to rising above all of this.

 

Setting boundaries in your life IS VERY hard!!

 

But, you do have some choices to make. Yes...you. You have more power than you think you do. You deserve better.

 

You can do this.

 

I think you need as much positive support as possible.

I got the courage to overcome abuse by reaching out to my local crisis center. At the crisis center, I found all the support I needed. I made friends with other women that were in my exact situation. They held women's abuse group meetings twice a week...maybe more.

 

Reach out to other people in your position right now. Other people who are trying to overcome the exact things you are dealing with right now.

 

Get away from those abusive people, and put yourself around some positive role-models.

 

The leader of the group I went to was a women who had overcome the abuse. She is a survivor.

[quankanne]

there is a kind of denial going on, because you've established the meaning of a "healthy" relationship to be what you've experienced, rather than one based on respect, etc. Maybe the key is to look at those positive, healthy relationships – ones with boundaries of unacceptable behavior defined clearly – and start striving for that, rather than settling for the abusive relationships.

 

in otherwords, start by telling yourself that you deserve way better than what an abusive partner can offer, and that you are strong enough to walk away from hurtful relationships no matter who they might be with.

[Kwo-ne'-she]

there is a kind of denial going on, because you've established the meaning of a "healthy" relationship to be what you've experienced, rather than one based on respect, etc. Maybe the key is to look at those positive, healthy relationships – ones with boundaries of unacceptable behavior defined clearly – and start striving for that, rather than settling for the abusive relationships.

 

Very good point. When you have spent your entire life in abusive relationships, your defintion of "love" is seriously warped. Part of breaking free of the abuse cycle, is to redefine what love really means. Controlling, possessivness, over-the-top jealousy are not signs of love. They are signs of an abusive man.

[Sun_Conure]

lonelybird, I tried to keep emotional diary. I usually write in it when I feel strong sad emotions. They are usually the same and stuff I write is the same. I did not tell him that he was abusive. Actually, I did not tell anyone when they were abusive. What if they disagree? what if they say that I am unreasonable and that my behavior is not "normal" (have no idea what the "normal" is)?

 

boshemia, thank you for sharing your experience. I do see the cycle, the small one (within one relationship) and the bigger one (in my overall life). But I have realized that I actually was abused (rape does not count, I knew that) year and a half ago when I went to see a counselor due to my depression. As it was always emotional abuse in different forms (not so much screaming and namecalling) I have hard time accepting it for what it was. I love my mother, and I loved my ex husband and my ex boyfriend and I did not love everyone else. It is like I love only people who abuse me. Do you know why?

 

Kwo-ne'-she, here is my problem: I am not totally honest with myself. I wilfully ignore information that I do not like. I think I love this ex bf, so I just refuse to acknowledge that some of the stuff never happend and he did not say what he said. Do you see what I mean? I KNOW it happend but it is hard to admit it even to myself. That is why I think I am kind of in denial about the abuse. I am hurt, I do not like the way he treats me, I rebell in my own way (passive agressive behavior learned from childhood and I run when I cannot deal with it any longer), but I still come back. It is like in childhood. Hmm ... I did run away from home many times during many years. I need a courage to start writing ALL the bad stuff.

 

What is love?

 

luvtoto, it is a good idea to go to a local crisis center. I am just afraid that all my problems will be nothing in comparison to what other women experienced. Like "why did you even come here? you think you have problems?" stuff.

 

quankanne, my counselor explained to me what is a healthy relationship and how to find out if a relationship is healthy. I understand that. The problem is that I do not know how to establish and maintain boundaries especially with people I think I love. I need to be strong! I need to learn other ways of expressing my opinion that some behavior is unacceptable. It is so difficult though!!!

[luvtoto]

luvtoto, it is a good idea to go to a local crisis center. I am just afraid that all my problems will be nothing in comparison to what other women experienced. Like "why did you even come here? you think you have problems?" stuff.

That is a very normal reaction, Sun-Conure. (that's an interesting name btw)

 

I was in the group for about two years. I heard that from alot of the women. Alot of the women have been out of abusive relationships for decades. Women that are still striving to make themselves a better person.

 

The problem does not lie with how we are abused. The problem is why we allow abuse in our lives.

 

Even I felt like I had no reason to be asking for help from a crisis center. I mean, my ex *just* emotionally abused me. He wasn't leaving visible bruises or anything.

 

The group therapy empowers women who can't empower themselves.

 

As much as you have been beaten down in your life, it's a wonder that you are even seeing the abuse for what it is. That's amazing in itself.

[quankanne]

As much as you have been beaten down in your life, it's a wonder that you are even seeing the abuse for what it is. That's amazing in itself.

 

I think that's the biggest step an abused person will ever take – yes, it's hard to ask for help or know where to go, but even just talking about it to others is a huge part of healing.

 

my counselor explained to me what is a healthy relationship and how to find out if a relationship is healthy. I understand that. The problem is that I do not know how to establish and maintain boundaries especially with people I think I love. I need to be strong! I need to learn other ways of expressing my opinion that some behavior is unacceptable. It is so difficult though!!!

 

that is all tied into self-esteem, I think many of us have problems with that to some degree. Because you are already are aware of the differences between healthy and unhealthy, you need to allow yourself to apply those standards of "healthy" to the people you love, not let them have a different set of standards. For me, it took a long time to accept that I didn't have to put up with certain behavior from my siblings, and my world became a much happier, stress-free place because I chose not to accept behavior in them that I wouldn't in other relationships ... it's hard, but very necessary if you honestly want to keep yourself from imploding from resentment, anger, hurt, depression, etc.

[Sun_Conure]

Quankanne, I do not think it has a lot to do with my self-esteem. It is related to it but not it. I mean, I have a high self-esteem of myself as a women and as a person. I know that I am attractive (guys think I am hot), successfull and smart. And I do not need other people to tell me those things. I have always knew them, in a healthy way of course (I do not think that I am better then other people nor do I feel a necessity to prove anything to anyone).

 

Anyway, I think the abuse part is directly related to my natual character. I do not like to argue, I do not like to espress my opinion in a confrontational way, I do not like problems of any sort. I prefer to communicate and compromise or find a win-win situation or to avoid confrontation. Unfortunately, my mother was very dominating and nervous. It did not make sense for me to argue with her. My sister thought differently and she is a different person then I am. I quitly established myself in other areas (got full scholarship at a very good university, moved to the USA, got accepted and finished a decent law school there, passed a bar exam from the first try, got a job as an attorney, survived without any money after I left my ex h, I even assembled a bookshelf myself! never did that before).

 

So instead of establishing my boundaries, I just ignored what the other person was telling to me. For example, my mother used to yell at us when she was not in the mood (no beating though), so I just tuned her out. I knew that the storm would pass, she would regret what she did, she would become nice again. So I learned how to ignor stuff. When situation got completely out of hand, I run away, retured home after several days. I usually stayed either with my father or friends.

 

Once I got married, I could not run away (no money). My ex h was different when we dated and even several years after marriage. After we moved to the USA, I did not have a work visa, so he was the only one who earned money (he reminded me of that fact as if it was my choice to seat at home). I went to a law school, got occupied. He just stopped listen to me at some point. I did not like to argue and did not see a point in agruing as he did not listen to me anyway, and nothing ever changed and I did not know what was healthy/unhealthy. One of the issues was that my ex h never told me about our financial situation even though I asked many many times. He treated me like an irresponsible child (his words). There was other stuff too. I had a whole list.

 

On my third year of LS I left him. That was a tough year. I was a full time student and could work only part time and I was not good with money. Could not budget or anything. I never had my own money before! Then I met my now ex bf. I dated other guys after him too, for various reasons it did not work with them. But I thought I fell in love with that guy. It was so great, but did not work out. I let it go several times, he came back every single time. He was very persistent. I never insist on anything. When he told me he wanted to break up, that was it for me. I think during that conversation I told him I wanted to try again, but after his said no, I said ok and never insisted on that again. Over time he became abusive. Our relationship deteriorated and he advances because more and more offensive. At some point I told him I loved him hoping he would be afraid of responsibility and leave me alone. Well, needless to say, it made things only worse. Now he began to use those words against me ("like you are in love with me, take what I give you" crap). I ended that many times, did not call, did not contact him. He did all the pursuing. It was so hard to argue that I would just give in. It torn me apart.

 

You see, I know that his behavior is quite bad wrong horrible, and still I cannot think bad of him when he crawls back. By the way, I had very clean break ups with everyone else. My ex h did invite me to movies several times, but he was too proud to insist when I was not responsive.

 

My sister is different, but her character is different then mine. I NEED to change my charater, be more assertive in personal relations too. Any ideas?

[luvtoto]

I understand that. The problem is that I do not know how to establish and maintain boundaries especially with people I think I love. I need to be strong! I need to learn other ways of expressing my opinion that some behavior is unacceptable. It is so difficult though!!!

Oh, of course it is difficult! You are changing your life here. For the better!

 

You are further along than most. Sadly, I have met many women who thought they deserved to be abused.

 

No one deserves to be abused...EVER!!!

 

EVER!! No one has the right to treat you that way. (sorry...sensitive subject )

 

It takes alot to get to the point where you admit you have had enough. I remember the day when I decided it for myself...and my kids. Never looked back again. Something just clicked inside of me. I guess you could call it an *awareness* of my situation.

 

When you reach that point, you will surprise yourself with what you are capable of doing to make your life better.

[CardPlay3r]

You don't need to change your character, just to deal with the abuse you took and learn the warning sides to avoid it in future relationships (after you leave this one of course)

 

I think you should try and see a counselor that specializes in abuse, maybe you should ask your current one to refer you to one and move to that...

[lonelybird]

Actually, I did not tell anyone when they were abusive. What if they disagree? what if they say that I am unreasonable and that my behavior is not "normal" (have no idea what the "normal" is)?

Are you kidding, girl? You are normal. God made you, you are precious in God's eyes, everyone of us is different from others. When other people cannot handle their own problems, they blame us to be the one who has issues. The hurt you felt is there, it is REAL. Please Don't let others to tell you how you should feel:rolleyes:

Maybe you don't have self-esteem problems, but I sensed YOU don't love yourself enough. When you love yourself enough, to define the healthy boundary would not be an issue. When you can see the love through God's eyes, then you would love yourself as God loves you. We didn't get the unconditional love from our family because they don't know, but we can get unconditional from God.

 

I know where you come from, I had an emotional abusive loooong distance ex, even it was long distance, I felt the large hurt, I never was hurt like that. He tried to convince me that I was the one who are too "sensitive and unreasonable":rolleyes: . anyway, If Jesus can bring me out of it, He can do so for you too. Would you please look about the "religious belief forum" a little when you get time?

[boshemia]

Are you me???? Kind of scary...

 

I've learned a lot in the last year, more than I have in years of therapy attempts, anti-depressants, and self-help books.

 

As far as not knowing what normal is, that in itself is perfectly normal for people who have lived with abusive relationships... I don't have that feeling as often as I used to, but I went through years of refering to myself as a freak.

 

I found people who treated me exactly the way I thought I deserved to be treated. There were people in my past, "nice guys" that treated me like a princess and I got rid of the pretty fast. At the time I thought it was because they were too nice, but I'm beginning to realize that it just made me feel uncomfortable. I didn't trust them, I didn't trust that anyone could be nice to me without wanting something in return.

 

I think we have a lot in common... I wrote this thread fairly recently. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t113230/

 

So all of us have that problem I think, or at least both of us do.

 

I'm going to recommend three sites to you, first of all is a website about abuse, pay attention to the frame inside of "defective" and see if that's how you are feeling. http://youarenotcrazy.com/

 

Second is a website called coping.org, just pick through the tools for coping, some things apply, some don't. There is ALOT of information here, so don't overwhelm yourself.

 

Third http://www.drirene.com/catbox/index.php?showforum=24 is a form dedicated solely to people in abusive relationships, you'll find me there too under a different name. There are good people here, and they'll help you see through deceptions yours and other peoples.

 

Good Luck Love...

 

And hey, you aren't alone....

[Sun_Conure]

boshemia

 

Wow! Thank you for all the information. I really appreciate it.

 

You wrote that you "didn't trust that anyone could be nice to you without wanting something in return." I feel the same way. Only recently I realized that every time I meet a guy, I kind of expect something wrong to happen. If he insists on something, I perceive it as pushing. At the same time my ex bf is really pushy and manipulative, and I find excuses for him every single time or just ignore this words. What is wrong in this picture? I even complained to my counselor that I did not know how to tell a guy when I did not feel comfortable. She had to rehearse the actual words with me. I can tell no, but only when a guy is clearly out of limits. In all other situations, I get lost. I have hard time establishing healthy boundaries. Do you?

 

I read your story and it sounds much worse then mine. I am so sorry that you had to live through all that experience.

[boshemia]

LOL, the reason I showed you is because I say the same thing as you do... Other people have it so much worse than me... what right do I have to complain???

 

It's not like I've been physically abused my whole life, my Mom didn't beat me outside of a few spanking gone wild, my ex husband only slapped me once... and as far as the rape...

 

I refused to call it rape, even the police kept correcting me saying it was rape. I kept saying, but he didn't FINISH. As if being held down, having my clothes ripped off, and screaming for help wasn't traumatic... nope... he didn't finish...

 

See when I look at your story I see it, I get the mistreatment, and I say "Oh My God, that is so Awful, That poor girl"

 

When I look at mine I say, "Well, some bad things have happened, but they could have been so much worse."

 

At the risk of being repetitive... I'll repeat what helps me break that thinking.

 

My counselor knows that I live for my children, I volunteer with youth groups... I love kids. So he told me to pretend that my daughter was sitting next to me, and she is telling me these things. "but he didn't finish, so it wasn't really rape."

 

I would f'n kill the guy, that's my baby girl... Oh... Wow... So why does someone I love deserve more love than I do.

 

So sit down and read your journals, and try to imagine that they belong to your little sister, your daughter, someone else you love very much. Take yourself out of it and see how you feel.

 

That's when it hit me... We've been told all our lives that we shouldn't feel sorry for ourselves and somehow that means we should never be angry, feel sad, or feel anything for ourselves that minght indicate that we are selfish...

 

It's not selfish to love yourself... it's really not... it's survival, and it also starts to feel good after awhile.

[boshemia]

Boundaries?!!!? My ex mother in law still walks in my house without knocking, We don't even like each other so it's not a friendship thing. I've told bosses they didn't have to pay me, I told my ex that he could keep cheating on me as long as he stopped hiding it from me. People have walked all over me my entire life!

 

It didn't dawn on me to care until I got sick.

 

One day I went to work at the family shop and by mid day I couldn't walk. My legs just felt like jelly. At 34 I needed to use a cane to walk across the room because my legs wouldn't support my weight. I was in constant pain, my joints and muscles were screaming. I had muscle tremors, I was 34 and looked like an old woman with palsy.

 

After half a dozen doctors they settled on fibromyalgia. It's very common with people who have been abused. They are trying to link it to Post Traumatic Stress Disorder at the moment. I have good days and bad, but I've gotten a lot better since I instituted the No Drama policy in my life : )

 

If my ex comes over and we start fighting I tell him to leave, if someone calls and wants me to fix their marriage, their kids, or their computer I say no.

 

Just learning to say No made a huge difference, and I don't even feel guilty about it anymore. If someone tries to make me feel guilty I end the conversation...

 

It's a slow process hun, but it is worth it. Sometimes I crash, and I feel like it is doing more harm that good. Then After I crash I feel 100% better, the low self-esteem is still there, it's just more subtle now...

 

Repeat after me... "I deserve to be happy" say it again, and again, and again... until you finally believe it : )

[CardPlay3r]

It's always very frustrating to me hearing this "other people have it much worse". It seems that's like a mantra of the abused guess a way to deny yourself help but it makes no sense logically.

 

So what if other people have it worse? There will always be people that have it worse and there's nothing you can do about them, what good is it to anyone that you'll let people do anything to you?

 

Saying that is like starving yourself and refusing to eat saying "may in africa are hungrier than I"

[luvtoto]

When you love yourself enough, to define the healthy boundary would not be an issue.

There is definitely some truth in that statement.

[boshemia]

I think it goes back to things in our past... people saying things like "stop feeling sorry for yourself", "It's not that big of a deal", "I went through much worse than that, and you don't hear me complaining"

 

So many of us are taught that it is selfish to think of yourself... my homework this week in counseling was take care of me lol... and I'm thinking How the hell do I do that?

[luvtoto]

I think it goes back to things in our past... people saying things like "stop feeling sorry for yourself", "It's not that big of a deal", "I went through much worse than that, and you don't hear me complaining"

I still remember the moment that my dad told me that my opinion don't mean ****. I was only 13 yrs old. Kinda sticks with a person. He was an ass. I see that now.

[lonelybird]

Sisters

Now I learned that we human being all have a place like a container in our heart. This container should be filled with full of unconditional love and continually filled when we give our love to others. Many of us didn't have a good childhood, and didn't get the enough unconditional love from our parents because our parents didn't have it enough in the first place, it is like a bad influence from generation to generations. suppose there are 10 levels of love in the container. The low level love in the container will cause many problems when we grew up. Like we don't cherish ourselves when we should do. because we only see ourselves worth 4 or 5 level of love.

 

Selfish people in fact are people who don't have a full container of love, so they demand love from others, sometimes even sacrifice others personal welfare, so these people became vampires. suck up energy and love from other persons and left them empty. we have so many vampires around us in our society.

 

There is a type of person called borderline personality disorder. I read a little about them. some of them try to help people, or in a more real sense, try to make everybody happy, from outside they seem very nice people, but inside they hate people, they really hate people, thinking every other person is trying to rob something from them. the truth is their container is empty, but they are trying to give or please everybody around them, thinking this is the right way to survive.

 

So to fill the container with full of unconditional love seems very important now. I really think God is the only one can do this. so when I read the Bible more and more, I feel more and more love from God. when our container full of unconditional love, we would feel easy to give, when we do so, can feel genuin happiness from inside. when people told us we are not worth God's love because of our past experiences, well, that is NOT true. God loves us so much, and wait us to return him at any moment. He want to nurture and love us no matter what we did and experienced, He just love to see a lost sheep return.