Increasing troops?

[amerikajin]

nothing like getting your limbs shot off in Iraq then spending 6 months in Walter Reed Hosp recouperating. Talk about putting salt on the wound.

 

None of these politicians care about the troops, but they must LOOK like they care.

 

It certainly makes you wonder.

 

And if that's not bad enough, consider the private security contractors who get paid three or four times as much as the troops.

[lonelybird]

It's not a coincidence that the most violent places on earth right now are also the most religious. It's not a coincidence that the Bible Belt states are among the more violent states in the U.S. If people would take education as half as seriously as they took religion we'd have far fewer problems in this world.

 

Rather than getting defensive, I think those who are ultra-religious ought to educate themselves on how their religion came to be.

So you think without religion the world would be better? you are lucky to live in a country whose basic religion is christianity. Did you live in a country completely no religion for a period of time? or live in a country who has a very different religion. If so I bet you will change your mind and begin to appreciate what Christian did in the history and in your society. Extreme and violent religion and non-religion are same fruit of human nature. Real spiritual fruits are love, forgive, meek, gentle, appreciation....just like Jesus

[amerikajin]

So you think without religion the world would be better?

 

No, I think the world would be better if people would keep religion a private matter and stop trying to convince everyone else that their spirituality is superior to everyone elses. Christianity is a religion - that is it. Christians have no more proof that their beliefs are any more "right" than the Native American tribes who get stoned on peyote.

 

you are lucky to live in a country whose basic religion is christianity.

 

Would this be the same Christian nation that believed in Manifest Destiny? From sea to shining sea? The same Christian nation that believed it was a moral right to enslave black savages? The same Christian nation that believed it was their God-given destiny to exterminate Native Americans by the thousands and steal their lands? Did you know that this Christian country has the highest murder rate in the industrialized world? And that it has twice the murder rate of Iran? And that its murder rate rivals that of some developing third world countries? And that the nations with the highest murder rates in the world are mostly Christian? I can just feel the love.

 

Did you live in a country completely no religion for a period of time? or live in a country who has a very different religion. If so I bet you will change your mind and begin to appreciate what Christian did in the history and in your society.

 

To answer your question, yes - I have lived in such a place. It was wonderful. It was far more orderly, far less violent, far more law-abiding than this Christian country.

[lonelybird]

No, I think the world would be better if people would keep religion a private matter and stop trying to convince everyone else that their spirituality is superior to everyone elses. Christianity is a religion - that is it. Christians have no more proof that their beliefs are any more "right" than the Native American tribes who get stoned on peyote.

 

 

 

Would this be the same Christian nation that believed in Manifest Destiny? From sea to shining sea? The same Christian nation that believed it was a moral right to enslave black savages? The same Christian nation that believed it was their God-given destiny to exterminate Native Americans by the thousands and steal their lands? Did you know that this Christian country has the highest murder rate in the industrialized world? And that it has twice the murder rate of Iran? And that its murder rate rivals that of some developing third world countries? And that the nations with the highest murder rates in the world are mostly Christian? I can just feel the love.

 

 

 

To answer your question, yes - I have lived in such a place. It was wonderful. It was far more orderly, far less violent, far more law-abiding than this Christian country.

Did these murders get spritual fruits?

[sb129]

It's not like the Green Zone is the Shangri La.

 

I definitely do feel for the troops. At the same time, I think there is more than enough suffering to go around. I also think the troops are being used as political pawns by the right wing.

 

nothing like getting your limbs shot off in Iraq then spending 6 months in Walter Reed Hosp recouperating. Talk about putting salt on the wound.

 

None of these politicians care about the troops, but they must LOOK like they care.

 

It certainly makes you wonder.

 

And if that's not bad enough, consider the private security contractors who get paid three or four times as much as the troops.

 

Ok, point taken. I guess we all agree that the US government/ defense dept are to blame for this mess, but WHY oh why are they spending money on BKs and making the green zone all lovely instead of improving the hospitals and caring for the vets when they return home?

(I should have put that in my original post) I know youcan't answer the questions, but these are the reasons the US government is losing SO much support outside of the US. (I can't talk for whatits like within-maybe youcan help here)

There are returned soldiers who have had to FIGHT for compensation.

Thats just totally ridiculous, esp as you say these security contractors make loads of money. I know a guy who is a security worker- he makes ALOT ofmoney.. but what of the troops who lose their lives and the families who theyleave behind? Bugger all.

 

 

 

I couldn't believe my ears. Its so unfair.

[Love Hurts]

It's not a coincidence that the most violent places on earth right now are also the most religious. It's not a coincidence that the Bible Belt states are among the more violent states in the U.S. If people would take education as half as seriously as they took religion we'd have far fewer problems in this world.

 

Rather than getting defensive, I think those who are ultra-religious ought to educate themselves on how their religion came to be.

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAArchieeeeeeeeee you’re a

Hookie- Pookie toilet flusher.

[amerikajin]

AAAAAAAAAAAAArchieeeeeeeeee you’re a

Hookie- Pookie toilet flusher.

 

LOL!

 

Having trouble with the facts? Thought so.

[amerikajin]

Did these murders get spritual fruits?

 

Look, I don't know what "spiritual fruits" you're talking about. I would rather look at history based on evidence, not legend; I would rather look at science based on study, not "faith". I think God gave us intelligence so that we could find our way on this harsh planet and live amongst each other without arguing or fighting over what we think God said millennia before we were born.

 

If you look at the Bible's history and the history of Christianity you can understand why anyone is skeptical as I am. The Bible spread through war, not out of mainstream acceptance in antiquity. The history of the religion's main church (the Roman Catholic Church) has been appalling: it has a terrible track record of corruption, anti-Semitism, anti-Islam and looking the other way when priests molest boys by the thousands. The Bible has been written and re-written a number of times, and it goes without saying that the so-called "word of God" was written years after Christ's death by radicals who were promoting a new religion.

 

As hard as it may be to believe, I am not out to crush anyone's faith. I just get really irritated when I see Christians trying to convert other people - especially me. The quiet Christians are fine - they stay out of my way and I stay out of theirs. It's the missionaries who get under my skin. I think Jesus was a great guy and all, and I believe Christianity's ideals are solid...I just don't think he's the Messiah, no offense. And no, the Bible itself isn't "proof" that Jesus is the Messiah. Again, the Bible was written by men, not God.

[sb129]

Hes NOT the Messiah.

 

He's a VERY NAUGHTY BOY.

[Love Hurts]

Look, I don't know what "spiritual fruits" you're talking about. I would rather look at history based on evidence, not legend; I would rather look at science based on study, not "faith". I think God gave us intelligence so that we could find our way on this harsh planet and live amongst each other without arguing or fighting over what we think God said millennia before we were born.

 

If you look at the Bible's history and the history of Christianity you can understand why anyone is skeptical as I am. The Bible spread through war, not out of mainstream acceptance in antiquity. The history of the religion's main church (the Roman Catholic Church) has been appalling: it has a terrible track record of corruption, anti-Semitism, anti-Islam and looking the other way when priests molest boys by the thousands. The Bible has been written and re-written a number of times, and it goes without saying that the so-called "word of God" was written years after Christ's death by radicals who were promoting a new religion.

 

As hard as it may be to believe, I am not out to crush anyone's faith. I just get really irritated when I see Christians trying to convert other people - especially me. The quiet Christians are fine - they stay out of my way and I stay out of theirs. It's the missionaries who get under my skin. I think Jesus was a great guy and all, and I believe Christianity's ideals are solid...I just don't think he's the Messiah, no offense. And no, the Bible itself isn't "proof" that Jesus is the Messiah. Again, the Bible was written by men, not God.

All will have had a chance to hear and to receive.

To reject is your choice…. Made of your own freewill.

[Mark B]

Look, I don't know what "spiritual fruits" you're talking about. I would rather look at history based on evidence, not legend; I would rather look at science based on study, not "faith". I think God gave us intelligence so that we could find our way on this harsh planet and live amongst each other without arguing or fighting over what we think God said millennia before we were born.

 

If you look at the Bible's history and the history of Christianity you can understand why anyone is skeptical as I am. The Bible spread through war, not out of mainstream acceptance in antiquity. The history of the religion's main church (the Roman Catholic Church) has been appalling: it has a terrible track record of corruption, anti-Semitism, anti-Islam and looking the other way when priests molest boys by the thousands. The Bible has been written and re-written a number of times, and it goes without saying that the so-called "word of God" was written years after Christ's death by radicals who were promoting a new religion.

 

As hard as it may be to believe, I am not out to crush anyone's faith. I just get really irritated when I see Christians trying to convert other people - especially me. The quiet Christians are fine - they stay out of my way and I stay out of theirs. It's the missionaries who get under my skin. I think Jesus was a great guy and all, and I believe Christianity's ideals are solid...I just don't think he's the Messiah, no offense. And no, the Bible itself isn't "proof" that Jesus is the Messiah. Again, the Bible was written by men, not God.

I wouldn't sell Christianity so short. It was spread through war at times and through genuine acceptance many other times. It caught on like wildfire in the Second Century when it was very much a capital offense. It was a far superior moral philosophy to what existed previously in the Empire and it gave thousands upon thousands hope where there was hopelessness.

 

The very idea that the symbol of humiliation and oppression-the crucifix-became a symbol of hope and empowerment seems to me to be a marvelous and beautiful thing. Think about it. There was a point in time when people who heretofore believed they were worthless all of a sudden looked up at the cross and it transformed in meaning from death to life and that's pretty powerful stuff.

[alphamale]

I wouldn't sell Christianity so short. It was spread through war at times and through genuine acceptance many other times.

Chrisitianity, like the other major religions, has caused much more pain and suffering than good.

[pricillia]

Love Hurts good to see you

It's interesting you mention division here. I thought this last night. I think it is The Lord who "divide", means afterlife He will divide people and decide who go to heaven who go to hell. It is NOT our job to divide people. Our job is that tell the good news, Love our neighbors as ourselves. Bible didn't say our neighbors must be believers. but on the contrary tell us to love our enemy (who offend us). maybe you meant this?

 

 

 

Our job is to love our neighbors and ourselves... Ok that is good love ourselves... what does that mean anyway.

 

I just think that we should not listen to what God says to do when it is common sense to help someone out that needs help... You gals are talking about spreading the word of God, so me somthing of substance besides love thy neighbor and love thyself.

 

Talk to me about how you are practicing being a good person... what do you brush your teeth everyday... and read the bible and get more paranoid...

 

I just don't buy into all the talk stuff... reading a book and going to church every sunday means nothing when there are people in the world suffering and in pain, as well as all of yeah I will say it God's creatures...

 

What the heck are you two doing to make it a better place other then having your noses in a book. You may be well read and be able to pull up a scripture that relates to one of my questions, but talk to me in english from your own mind not from the bible... can you do that at all.

 

LB... I think that you do have a open mind and I think that you still have your sense of humor in life which hopefully will keep you a real live person... but LH sometimes I worry about you.

[lonelybird]

Brothers and sisters, you ROCK!!! Love you

Praise God !!!

 

Naa, I won't worry about LH, she is talking Kingdom talking, you have to enter kingdom to understand that.

[amerikajin]

I wouldn't sell Christianity so short. It was spread through war at times and through genuine acceptance many other times. It caught on like wildfire in the Second Century when it was very much a capital offense. It was a far superior moral philosophy to what existed previously in the Empire and it gave thousands upon thousands hope where there was hopelessness.

 

I won't deny that there is an appeal to Christianity, just as you find appealing aspects in a lot of other religions around the world. But Christianity's rise in the century or two after Christ's execution was likely a repudiation of Rome and her pagan symbols, and quite literally, it was also more and more a rejection of Roman authority itself. To use a hypothetical: imagine that the United States were in the midst of a downward spiral...suppose it's the year 2100 and you have members of Congress and the presidents assassinating each other one year after the next...you have soaring murder rates, growing poverty and massive food shortages, and frequent rioting. Maybe ordinary people hate their own government and their own society so much that they do what was once unthinkable and turn on their long-standing symbols and seek something newer, better, a fresh perspective on the world crumbling around them. Maybe Buddhists come out of nowhere and offer them a God based on peace and tranquility. Maybe people seek this new model to replace the old one which has come to represent everything they see wrong with the world around them. I think that describes Christianity in the 2nd and 3rd centuries. Justinian used Christianity to hold on to the remnants of the Empire.

[Mark B]

I agree with you Amerikajin, but it wasn't just political, it was a social and philosophical change that had started earlier, but evolved when it was synthesized with Judaism. Many of the people who came over to Christianity were already worshiping in various mystery cults. I think there is a misunderstanding that they were still worshiping the old Greco-Roman gods, but by that time that old Greek religion was dead and the celebration of various Eastern mystery cults had taken its place. Many of them had a similar theology and symbology to Christianity, but I think the power of the narrative story and the power of the symbol of the cross had greater appeal, because, like you say, it turned society on its head.

[Topper]

There is the throry That Paul in his travels was having a difficult time telling the Greeksa and the romans about the teachings of Jesus. So what does paul do. He adopts some of the mystry cult imagary such as Virgin birth, death and reserretion and adds them to the Jesus story. He takes Jesus from being a Great Teacher Philospher to Being a Son of God. Jesus has to be a god to compete with the Other mystery cult god/men of the time. Jesus had to bea more powerful God then all the rest of the gods out there. Paul was one hell of a marketer and salesmen. He even weaned this new faith away from it's Jewish roots. The biggest coup was getting the Empire Constantine to convert. The spread of Christianity was part spread the good news and part convert or die. It really wasn't to much different then the spread of Islam.

[lonelybird]

There is the throry That Paul in his travels was having a difficult time telling the Greeksa and the romans about the teachings of Jesus. So what does paul do. He adopts some of the mystry cult imagary such as Virgin birth, death and reserretion and adds them to the Jesus story. He takes Jesus from being a Great Teacher Philospher to Being a Son of God. Jesus has to be a god to compete with the Other mystery cult god/men of the time. Jesus had to bea more powerful God then all the rest of the gods out there. Paul was one hell of a marketer and salesmen. He even weaned this new faith away from it's Jewish roots. The biggest coup was getting the Empire Constantine to convert. The spread of Christianity was part spread the good news and part convert or die. It really wasn't to much different then the spread of Islam.

Okay, it is a theory. Can you prove it is absolutely truth? Which salesman rather to die to sell a theory? There were many Christians died because of their faith. think about yourself. If you accept certain theology, you just think a system of belief, do you rather die than deny?

 

Islamic extremist died in their own hand AND kill other peoples. But Christians died in OTHER people's hand, AND they did just want to help people. How can these two things are same?

 

If you have resentment toward God, you try to convert to another god won't help the resentment out. Why not tell God your resentment directly?

[alphamale]

Islamic extremist died in their own hand AND kill other peoples. But Christians died in OTHER people's hand, AND they did just want to help people. How can these two things are same?

As a religion, Christians have killed many more people in the last 2,000 years than any one else.

 

Read your own history, jesus ****ing christ

[amerikajin]

Okay, it is a theory. Can you prove it is absolutely truth? Which salesman rather to die to sell a theory? There were many Christians died because of their faith. think about yourself. If you accept certain theology, you just think a system of belief, do you rather die than deny?

 

Islamic extremist died in their own hand AND kill other peoples. But Christians died in OTHER people's hand, AND they did just want to help people. How can these two things are same?

 

If you have resentment toward God, you try to convert to another god won't help the resentment out. Why not tell God your resentment directly?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades#First_Crusade_1095.E2.80.931099

 

Lonelybird, you really, really need to read some history about Christianity.

 

Some of the absolute worst massacres in history have been committed in the name of Christ.

[Love Hurts]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades#First_Crusade_1095.E2.80.931099

 

Lonelybird, you really, really need to read some history about Christianity.

 

Some of the absolute worst massacres in history have been committed in the name of Christ.

 

Have read of the futuristic Battle of Armageddon… it will be a last day blood bath in the Name of Christianity and the blood will be up to horses bridles. The best is yet to come.

Praise Jesus!

[lonelybird]

As a religion, Christians have killed many more people in the last 2,000 years than any one else.

 

Read your own history, jesus ****ing christ

Are you afraid Jesus watch you if you invite Jesus into your heart?

 

I would think those christians who kill are fruits of human nature, not spiritual fruits.

[Topper]

Lonelybird, Can I prove the theory true? Yes if you follow a time line. 3 years after the death of Jesus, Paul has vision of Jesus on the road to Damascus. Paul has never met Jesus in life. He goes on to spread the word. he comes into The Greek City States and finds it had to convert these people. They already have gods that are Man/ gods and born of virgin birth. Why do they need this new Jewish God? 15 years or so later Paul goes back to Jerusalem and has meeting with James Peter and other followers of Jesus. He then goes back out on a mission to convert. Paul Claims the he has been given permission to do away with the need to be circumcised and Kosher law. He says gentiles do not have to first be Jews in order to be followers of Christ. The Chruch in Jerusalem hears this and sends letters to Paul telling him to stop doing what he is doing. Paul ignores them and keeps up his mission. All this time Paul has to make up more stories about Jesus so that the Greeks and the Romans see that Jesus is a bigger and more powerful god then the mystery god/men they were worshiping. The first stories of virgin Birth, and Resurrection do not appear untill about 70 years after the death of Jesus. The gospel of Mary and the Gossips of Thomas maybe the first written records of Jesus and they do not have any account of virgin birth or a physical Resurrection. they do claim a vision of Jesus after the crucifiction

 

You assume I do not believe in God. You couldn't be more wrong. History is filled with accounts of Christians killing other christians because they did not believe exact same interpretation of the Bible. The first Crusades were not against Islam. They were against other Christians. There wasa group in The south of France called the Cather's. The Chruch in Rome did not like what they believed. The roman chruch sent out an Army and wiped out this peaceful group. The Spanish inquisitions of touchier, rape and murder were all done in the name of Christ. These are all facts. If you lived in that time you very well may have been put to death at the hands of other Christians for believing as you do

[lonelybird]

Lonelybird, Can I prove the theory true? Yes if you follow a time line. 3 years after the death of Jesus, Paul has vision of Jesus on the road to Damascus. Paul has never met Jesus in life. He goes on to spread the word. he comes into The Greek City States and finds it had to convert these people. They already have gods that are Man/ gods and born of virgin birth. Why do they need this new Jewish God? 15 years or so later Paul goes back to Jerusalem and has meeting with James Peter and other followers of Jesus. He then goes back out on a mission to convert. Paul Claims the he has been given permission to do away with the need to be circumcised and Kosher law. He says gentiles do not have to first be Jews in order to be followers of Christ. The Chruch in Jerusalem hears this and sends letters to Paul telling him to stop doing what he is doing. Paul ignores them and keeps up his mission. All this time Paul has to make up more stories about Jesus so that the Greeks and the Romans see that Jesus is a bigger and more powerful god then the mystery god/men they were worshiping. The first stories of virgin Birth, and Resurrection do not appear untill about 70 years after the death of Jesus. The gospel of Mary and the Gossips of Thomas maybe the first written records of Jesus and they do not have any account of virgin birth or a physical Resurrection. they do claim a vision of Jesus after the crucifiction

 

You assume I do not believe in God. You couldn't be more wrong. History is filled with accounts of Christians killing other christians because they did not believe exact same interpretation of the Bible. The first Crusades were not against Islam. They were against other Christians. There wasa group in The south of France called the Cather's. The Chruch in Rome did not like what they believed. The roman chruch sent out an Army and wiped out this peaceful group. The Spanish inquisitions of touchier, rape and murder were all done in the name of Christ. These are all facts. If you lived in that time you very well may have been put to death at the hands of other Christians for believing as you do

If I live at that time, I would still do things to please God, maybe I would be put to death by people, but I know I will go to heaven anyway, just I prefer a quick death:p I fear God more than human being, flesh just temporary, but soul is forever. and I cannot lie to say "I don't know Jesus, I don't know God" to please people. The truth is Jesus is a living God who sent Holy Spirit to those who believe in Him. People may do bad things in God name, but the fruit of theirs is Satan and human nature, not from God. So I understand those Christians in old days, prefer die than lie because they know Living God and fear God more than flesh.