Unusual friendship/romantic arrangement

[pikes1992]

I just realized that there might be something weird going on emotionally with the ex-boyfriend.

She told me yesterday that she harbors a tremendous amount of guilt ...re something that she did prior to ending the relationship (she told me that he had forgiven her but that she had not been able to forgive herself) I am assuming that she must have been unfaithful or something similar. The guy, in addition to being her future husband, was also her best friend and confidant...I'm satisfied that their relationship is over (physically)but she is really having a difficult time letting go of something...

I also forgot to mention that this was the first, and only, relationship she has ever had...

[Storyrider]

I just realized that there might be something weird going on emotionally with the ex-boyfriend.

She told me yesterday that she harbors a tremendous amount of guilt ..

 

 

By making you focus on these little tidbits she is only keeping you hanging on, hoping things will change later. You can't see the forest for the trees.

 

I agree with Island Girl that she has you right where she wants you.

[Yamaha]

After reading Island Girls post I have to agree with her. I would cut your losses now before you get in deeper but I think you are already there and you will continue to find excuses for her actions toward you. It is really to bad that the people we like can't like us in return or at least tell us how they feel toward us. I would just come out and ask her if she sees you two going anywhere beyond friendship. She probably won't want to answer your question as it will end what she has with you but you really need to know where you stand.

[uplooker80]

Let me start by saying I really feel for you. Your position totally sucks. It's real easy to be objective when you're not the one whose involved. I'm currently going through something similar but it's even more hopeless than your situation.

 

Everyone here is right. Force something to happen. Kiss her...passionately! If she responds....bonus, and your wildest dreams are answered. If she rejects you, then at least you know for sure where she stands. Then you can cease being her lap dog.

 

You do not want to be "just friends". You have to force this thing to either happen or not.

 

Good luck!

[michelangelo]

As Island girl has now told you, a lot of women enjoy having the unboyfriend boyfriend around.

 

It's this culling operation they indulge in. There's some attraction on this type of woman's part in emasculating a guy that is interested in them romantically and turning them into their girlfriend/confidant.

 

Before she hands you your cajones in a jar, move on and find a woman who is interested in you romantically.

 

This one ain't.

[Island Girl]

There's some attraction on this type of woman's part in emasculating a guy that is interested in them romantically and turning them into their girlfriend/confidant.

 

Having been this girl -- I COMPLETELY DISAGREE with that it stems from wanting to "emasculate" the guy.

 

It has NOTHING to do with wanting the guy to be less male in any way.

 

It is a lack of romantic interest and for me, always, physical attraction to the guy.

It is the guy that is smart, funny, great to be around, but there is NO spark of "GAWD I wish he'd kiss me", etc. In fact the opposite.

 

The best part of a relationship like this for a girl is that you get ALL of the benefit of a boyfriend - someone who will do anything for you - but no pressures of a physical relationship (that takes relationships to another level as most know) and, in fact, this type of relationship still allows for meeting and dating other men if the opportunity presents itself.

 

It is having your cake and eating it too so to speak.

 

And by the way OP, the feelings or guilt she has about her ex have NOTHING at all to do with you. If she was attracted to you she'd be dating you.

 

If you're going to stick with it - at least open your eyes and see things as they are. Don't make excuses for why she isn't dating you just to allow the relationship to stay intact.

 

If she was into you - she'd be dating you. It doesn't matter what happened in any previous relationship. She just isn't into you. And because she has you spun this way - well, a girl loses respect for a guy that is so willing to accept this type of relationship so, although the girl may really really like him as a person, he'll never be the one she dates.

[pikes1992]

I know that most of you will think that I simply refuse to see beyond what is really going on...and I sincerely appreciate your input-and I have had similar thought processes leading up to posting this thread...but there has been so much flirting, physical and verbal...

So, not one person here believes that the possibility exists that she just is not ready for ANY kind of sexual relationship and simply needs my friendship right now more than anything else I could give her? I am pretty sure that her last relationship began in much the same way...I am not blinded by the situation...but I am getting so many of the right signals...perhaps I'm just misinterpreting them and should force the issue and/or move on...

I appreciate everyone here taking the time to give me their feedback!

[michelangelo]

Having been this girl -- I COMPLETELY DISAGREE with that it stems from wanting to "emasculate" the guy.

 

It has NOTHING to do with wanting the guy to be less male in any way.

 

 

Well, if you are willing to let that process occur, as a guy, I'd call that getting emasculated.

 

Maybe it is not your primary intent out of it, but that is what occurs. If you accept the result, is that not the same as wishing it?

 

The best part of a relationship like this for a girl is that you get ALL of the benefit of a boyfriend - someone who will do anything for you - but no pressures of a physical relationship (that takes relationships to another level as most know) and, in fact, this type of relationship still allows for meeting and dating other men if the opportunity presents itself.

 

It is having your cake and eating it too so to speak.

 

 

This is the culling process I referred to. it is the emasculation of a guy, the snipping off of the sexual part of the relationship, sometimes hinting that it'll happen later, that some women like to do.

 

Of course, there has to be a guy willing to think there is some payoff to this silliness.

[Yamaha]

This whole thing results from the fact that men and women see relationships in a different way. For a man, when he likes a women and gets to know her, he enjoys her company. If they become close he may become emotionally involved and this will lead to the man falling in-love with her. Men who spend time talking about feelings with a women do so because he has fallen for her.

The fact that he probably approached her to start the friendship means he probably is attracted to her romantically or he would not have spent time being her friend.

 

Women enjoy talking about feelings and getting a guys perspective on issues so she likes his company. If they have things in common she will like him even more and this is when the guy will convince himself that she likes him the same way because she spends so much time talking to him. Usually these type of guys are shy or have problems with rejection so they figure if they spend time getting to know the women she will see his good qualities and want to date him.

 

Now the women may or may not have any romantic interest in you. You approached her because you did but you don't know if she does so you feel her out and play the friend. If she likes your company she will want to keep you around because she has grown to like you as a friend ( if she had no attraction to you ). Meanwhile the guy is getting more and more interested in her as time goes by but she is still stuck on friends because she doesn't FEEL anything sexual for him. Some women will try to keep this friendship by flirting and giving the guy just enough interest to keep him around because she knows he's interested in romance with her. Lets face it, if you like something your not going to want to ruin it by telling the guy your not interested in romance because that will kill the things she desires, friendship.

 

The guy will continue to stay in this mode if he thinks he has a chance at some point ( depends on the guy as to the length ) but sooner or later he will want the sexual relationship that he desired from the start. He will push for more and she will start avoiding him so she doesn't have to tell him he's "just a friend" to her. She does have feelings and doesn't want to hurt him but she won't go where he wants to take her. Usually this results with the end of the friendship because the guy really never wanted a friendship only in the first place.

 

So the lesson here is to find out soon where you stand with the object of your interest so you don't get your feelings hurt by spending lots of time on someone for whom you are never going to get what you desire.

It really isn't that hard to figure out if a women likes you romantically. I can't believe women are that good at deception although by the quantity of posts on this subject I must be wrong. Most people are not that good at hiding their interest so if you pay attention you can can usually tell if she fancies you or better yet, just ask her for a date.

[Island Girl]

but there has been so much flirting, physical and verbal...

 

I'd do this too. The flirting is fun practice and reinforces how attractive I am.

I get all the attention I want with no pressure of it going anywhere because it is always up to me.

 

And I love the ego stroking of knowing how much they want me and then I can take that confidence and go out to capture the guy I really want.

 

Yep - was that girl. I keep telling you. So now here I'm trying to help and, still OP, you want to believe it isn't true.

[Yamaha]

I'd do this too. The flirting is fun practice and reinforces how attractive I am.

I get all the attention I want with no pressure of it going anywhere because it is always up to me.

 

And I love the ego stroking of knowing how much they want me and then I can take that confidence and go out to capture the guy I really want.

 

 

I wish guys would listen to Island Girl 101 but as their judgement is clouded by emotions I guess you have to find out for yourself.

Nice to hear a women telling it how it is, by the way.

[Island Girl]

Nice to hear a women telling it how it is, by the way.

 

Thanks Yamaha.

 

In my days I have done horrible terrible things to men's poor hearts. I am just trying to do some good and save some feeling the same pain that I have caused so many.

[Sand&Water]

RE:

 

Pikes1992,

 

It is obvious you are running around the bush trying to find the best possible way to enter her world. And believe it or not, there isn't a soothing and good way that will satisfy your views along with hers.

 

I think the reason why she is this way is because she's scared that with her guilt, past mistakes, internal hurt, and hurt she has inflicted on ex-partner that it might somehow damage, destroy, and ruin her next relationship. Scared to get seriously involved with you for it could complicate her emotions.

 

She is putting you in the Pending Category which basically guarantees that you will stick around since you are obeying her rules.

 

Continuing to follow her like a pet dog, will only re-enforce the fact that you're being stepped upon -i.e. a doormat and showing man-less traits.

 

You should step up to the game. Show her your true colors. You're faking something -i.e. your feelings -when they should be the most real thing you've got in this world.

 

You need to convince her that she should take a chance with you -a chance at romance with a guy like you.

 

I see you really do care about her. So, you should sit down with her and talk to her about her troubles. Set the mood for her to open up to you, and vice versa.

 

Kissing her on the lips -right out of the blue- might very well guide you on the right path. You should do something -anything to trigger some sort of event/action (that may show you a glimpse of the future).

 

Regards,

Sand&Water

[Raleuse]

I'd do this too. The flirting is fun practice and reinforces how attractive I am.

I get all the attention I want with no pressure of it going anywhere because it is always up to me.

 

And I love the ego stroking of knowing how much they want me and then I can take that confidence and go out to capture the guy I really want.

 

Yep - was that girl. I keep telling you. So now here I'm trying to help and, still OP, you want to believe it isn't true.

 

That's exactly how my friend did. Kept me hanging on so that I could stroke that ego... He's a guy though.

[LucreziaBorgia]

1. So, not one person here believes that the possibility exists that she just is not ready for ANY kind of sexual relationship and simply needs my friendship right now more than anything else I could give her?

 

2. I am getting so many of the right signals...

 

1. I believe that she is using you as the "friend guy" until a guy comes along that she is romantically interested in. When that happens you'll be astonished as how quickly her "confusion" and "not wanting a relationship" will clear up.

 

2. Flirting is just an ego stroke for her. Is she sending you any real signals? Is she kissing you passionately? Holding your hand? Cuddling with you in bed at night? Introducing you to her parents as her boyfriend? Telling you that she wants to be with you?

[norajane]

So, not one person here believes that the possibility exists that she just is not ready for ANY kind of sexual relationship and simply needs my friendship right now more than anything else I could give her?

 

You don't have to have sex to be in a romantic relationship with someone. You can date, hold hands, kiss, but you don't have to have sex. If she isn't ready for a sexual relationship, that does not prevent her from actually being your girlfriend. Yet, she won't go to that length either.

 

What you are now is not bf/gf. You are her friend, but it stops short of being her bf. If she thought of you in THAT way, there would have been some kissing by now, and she would have been telling you she wants you as a bf, but isn't ready for sex. Instead, you are just her friend-boy - good for the ego, fun to hang out with, but no chance of it leading to anything further.

 

Seriously, stop hanging around her so much. Stop being so available to her. Maybe ask other girls out on dates. You need to stop wasting so much of your energy on a girl that doesn't return your feelings.

[norajane]

I'd do this too. The flirting is fun practice and reinforces how attractive I am.

I get all the attention I want with no pressure of it going anywhere because it is always up to me.

 

And I love the ego stroking of knowing how much they want me and then I can take that confidence and go out to capture the guy I really want.

 

Yep - was that girl. I keep telling you. So now here I'm trying to help and, still OP, you want to believe it isn't true.

 

Listen to Island Girl - I've done this, too, and this is exactly what's going on here.

 

OP, your only chance for love is to start dating other women. Either you will meet someone you can be in a relationship with, or it might make you more appealing to this girl. But if you continue what you are doing and hanging around her, you will be the one who is hurt when she starts dating someone else.

 

And Lucrezia is right - when she meets a guy she likes, you will be stunned at how quickly she jumps in without any confusion.

[pikes1992]

Just to update things,

 

Attempted to kiss her last night-she pulled her head away. Told me that she was attracted to me ("cute...nice smile"-her words). Said that she had not been at first but that as we spent more time together, she began to feel some attraction towards me. As for all the hugging and hand holding, she stated that she just "likes to be close to people"...shes the touchy-feely sort anyway.

Initially said "yes...and no" when asked if she was attracted to me and would not elaborate on the negative aspect of the response...said she might be able to someday (given her disposition and circumstances of the breakup and other statements, as well as her frame of mind-it would not surprise me if she were wrestling with something like bisexuality-and I'm honestly not saying that based on her rejection of me-please believe I'm a bigger man than that)...I recently decided to stay in this area as my profession keeps me very transient-she told me she thought that I might be in love with her and she was afraid I was making my decision to stay based on my feelings for her...but said it did not make her feel uneasy if I was in love with her...I feel as if she is being intentionally vague and elusive...and am now willing to admit to myself that you are all correct in your assesments of my miserable little state of affairs...

I suppose I had been hoping that there might be something different in my situation...that I was the exception to a situation like this...I suppose I'm going to move on from this and file it in the "no mistakes, only lessons" category...

Again, I sincerely appreciate your feedback...

[stace79]

Yeah, not to be negative...but good luck with that one. Those people who just can't seem to let go "emotionally" of a past love are the toughest to crack, in my opinion. I've been waiting on someone to do that for about a year now. He treats me like this woman treats you...we cuddle, kiss occassionally, hug, go see movies, have dinner together...sometimes we even make dinner together. We've met each other's friends and family. His friends love me. But he still isn't over his ex of four years. I am beginning to except he never will be. Now I am just trying to decide if I can stay his friend or if I just have to move on totally. It sucks...in your position...I say go for it. If she shoots you down, at least the decision is made and you have no regrets. It sounds like you want a serious relationship with a woman, so if this one isn't going to give it to you, you should move on to another woman. Also, if and when you DO meet the NEXT woman in your life, she wouldn't be happy with you staying friends with woman #1 the way things are now, ya know?

 

I just realized that there might be something weird going on emotionally with the ex-boyfriend.

She told me yesterday that she harbors a tremendous amount of guilt ...re something that she did prior to ending the relationship (she told me that he had forgiven her but that she had not been able to forgive herself) I am assuming that she must have been unfaithful or something similar. The guy, in addition to being her future husband, was also her best friend and confidant...I'm satisfied that their relationship is over (physically)but she is really having a difficult time letting go of something...

I also forgot to mention that this was the first, and only, relationship she has ever had...

[blue16]

What are you gonna do? Move on or continue to be her girl friend?

[Island Girl]

Sorry pikes -

 

I know it sucks but I am glad you are getting your head around it.

 

It seems that you are still feeling it has to do with her other relationship.

Just like stace79.

 

I can tell you it doesn't have anything to do with it - it is just a convenient "plausible" excuse to give you because she does like you as a person and she doesn't want to tell you that she is just not sexually attracted to you.

 

I used to use this one even when there was no ex-boyfriend that I was hurt by or had a bad break up with.

 

I thought it was kinder than the truth and I selfishly didn't want to lose the attention. It was horrible but it worked.

 

The instant I met a guy that I really was attracted to I'd of course start dating the guy.

 

The Unboyfriend would usually be justifiably upset and we'd cease hanging out together or stop being friends altogether.

 

Which makes sense right? He wanted me so he was hanging around hoping. I wanted attention so I kept it going.

 

So when I got a new boyfriend, I didn't need the attention from him and the Unboyfriend knew he wasn't going to get the job.

 

We weren't really "friends" anyway.

[Yamaha]

There's no point in staying friends with this women. You like her very much or you may be in-love with her. Hanging around her would not benefit you and when she does get a new guy your "friendship" will probably end or be extremely diminished. Yes, women do not want to tell you that they are not sexually attracted to you. This is what is meant when they use the "friends" word.They like you as a person but they are not sexually attracted. It is womenese and they want you to figure it out on your own.

[Island Girl]

Yes, women do not want to tell you that they are not sexually attracted to you. This is what is meant when they use the "friends" word.They like you as a person but they are not sexually attracted. It is womenese and they want you to figure it out on your own.

 

And get all the benefits from their "Unboyfriend Boyfriend" until you do.

[Mary3]

Greeeeaaat Posts Island Girl and Yamaha !

 

OP please read and read again what IG and Yamaha are saying to you.

 

Another concern here is the * guilt * I BELIEVE the person she is hanging onto and has in the wings is her Ex Bf. I believe that she wishes very much that she had not done * that thing * to him ( whatever it was ) and his pain is living inside HER.

 

Therefore, you have a 3 way going on here and you need to step out of the picture for a very long time. She has her issues and past ghosts chasing her back and you can't help her.

 

Dead on Right about how you are going to be HURT more when she does get a REAL bf ( or take back the ex ) You will be in a WORLD of pain then so start weaning yourself away from her NOW.

 

Spending nights with her ? Start finding old friends , old hobbies , old interests and no longer be available to be her * buddy *

 

IF you have not gotten into her pants ( after 4 months ) trust me you won't likely get there anytime soon.

 

If your goal is to be her buddy then fine.

If your goal is romantic and you love her...RUN !

[pikes1992]

Mary,

 

Although I have known her for four months...we have only been...we only really began seeing a great deal of one another around the last week of Jan.-first week of Feb. So I would say that we have really been "seeing" one another for 6-7 weeks (don't know if that makes any difference in your assessment). I have actually been in the room when she told the ex (via phone) that if he moved back to this area that "it would not change anything, and he needs to understand that". I am certain that it is over between them (romantically, at least). I suppose that I have not been aggressive enough when talking to her...I mean, I understand that she has had a tough last 8 months...and I decided that, under the circumstances, the only real option was to get to know her as a friend first (there was never any question in my mind that she was not ready for a romantic relationship) and hopefully by summer I might have been able to worm my way into her heart.

There was another guy that she spent some time with back in Nov-Dec but I think she stopped hanging out with him because he might have been trying too hard and she instinctively gave him the boot. When she realized that his intentions were only romantic-just too soon after the ex left at Thanksgiving, I guess.

I looked at this from the beginning not as a sprint...but a marathon.

But I suppose you only see what you want to see...either way, its looks like my heart has gotten the better of my judgement.