Lost my faith, might find it again...but might not

[amerikajin]

My friend; to begin with you never really found Christ … that’s why

its easy for you to miss Him… Not.

A mental ascent is not the same as one of the heart.

Showmanship... is for the glory of man; not of God.

You spent many years in vain; more for your lifes personal gain in the Lord,

not the Lords gain through your life.

 

Is it all about Christ or all about you?

 

God Bless*

 

Did you think of that yourself or is that what you were taught in Church?

[Love Hurts]

Did you think of that yourself or is that what you were taught in Church?

 

Hey Archie… I was saved I know from my heart it’s a personal experience…

 

You can’t get that Archie from flushing the toilet… and THOSE WERE THE DAYS!!!!!!

[sunshinegirl]

The sense I got from your original post is you are questioning a number of things. What struck me most strongly was your reaction to your prayer experience. It seems backwards. Why would you have less faith in God because He seemed to act contrary to your understanding?

 

Most of the times my prayer life was a "your will, not mine" kind of thing - realizing full well that sometimes God says no. The specifics around this experience were so unusual - everything about it seemed very clearly to be God leading me in a specific direction. I battled with myself over the leading, over this very issue, because it seemed counterintuitive, illogical, a product of my own longing. I remember praying around those very lines, for clarity around whether this was coming from God or me. And what I got back truly did not seem like an experience of me projecting things onto God and his character. It's hard to explain.

 

And as to your comment about the whispery voice, He is supposed to speak in a "still small voice." Why not question your own ability to hear rather than His existence?

 

And my central, existential question is this: WHY is he supposed to speak in a still small voice? Why is it supposed to be so still and small that it can easily be misheard, misinterpreted, or not heard at all?

 

How can we have the certainty that we are hearing God correctly? Does someone who says "God wants me to have this job" hearing correctly too? Can you rule all that stuff out because God doesn't have a specific will for our life so of course a leading about a specific job wouldn't be from God. Isn't THAT limiting God?

 

I accepted the small still voice thing most of my life. Only now I think - why should I have any confidence, ever, that I am hearing GOD, and not just making stuff up? It is all just a little too "hide the ball" for me right now.

[bluetuesday]

bluetuesday...And? What did you find?

 

what i found can't really be expressed in words - it's like trying to express the exact taste of an apple in words. you can get close, but what you get is just words, it's not the taste of an apple. it would be far easier to hand you an apple and tell you to bite into it...

 

but i will try to give you a very general overview. i'll PM you with more if you want more.

 

i found that once i was willing to stop making any assumptions about god based on my culture and experience, once i had proclaimed to the universe that i wanted the truth whatever it was and that i wasn't going to be satisfied with anything but the truth, the universe started answering me. these answers came internally - in the form of intuitive feelings and thoughts - and externally - in the form of a teacher who had been through what i was going through and could then and still does help me see beyond what i could/can currently see. i was ready, and the teacher appeared.

 

the internal answers are guided by what jesus called 'the comforter', the holy spirit that he sends to each person. i can feel this comforter as a presence within and around me sometimes and i can hear its 'voice' in my head. the best way i can describe this is... when you have a thought, you know it's YOU having the thought. and like most people, that had been my exclusive experience until recently. now, sometimes, when i am attuned to the holy spirit (i don't call it that but for ease of understanding i'll stick with that title) i have 'thoughts' that i am aware are NOT my own. they seem to come into my conscious mind from a higher place. i put them into words and understand them in words (or sometimes pictures) but the origin of them is outside my mind.

 

the idea of this freaked me out for a while and while i was freaked out, it didn't happen. it only happens when i allow it, and when i am open to it. i would describe these words as what jesus referred to as 'living truth'. remember he sent his disciples out without knowing what they were going to say, asking them to allow the holy spirit to speak through them? this is, i believe, a similar experience i am having.

 

connected to this, i started to be able to feel the difference inside me between 'living truth' and untruth. when i hear something that is true or mostly true, it now feels true. and when i hear a false idea or an idea that's mostly false, it doesn't resonate with me in the same way. it leaves me cold. it is almost like (or possible exactly like) i have learned what the vibration of truth is, and when i hear truth, i feel a spiritual reaction to it in the same way deaf people can 'hear' the vibration of sound through their fingers. this sounds a little woolly, so let me try to explain what it's like.

 

i hate celery. i think celery is the most vile food ever and the smell of it, let alone the thought of its putrid stringiness, can make me gag.

<gag> see?

 

now, i don't know logically why i hate celery. i hate it because i know i hate it, and when i experience celery, the experience backs up my feeling that i hate it. what i'm talking about is a bit like that. i can recognise truth in the same way that i know i hate celery. when i hear an idea about god or about the world that's true, i seem to know it in the same way as i know i hate celery - in a way that's beyond logic but relies on my spiritual senses.

 

yet when i look at what i have begun to recognise as being true and untrue with my logical mind AFTER i've had the experience of feeling whether it's true or not, i can also say that logically, the way i am beginning to understand the world makes perfect sense logically - so it seems true experientially as well as theoretically. i no longer find god confusing, i no longer wonder about why some people suffer and others don't, i no longer wonder why i'm here or what the purpose of life is, i no longer wonder if there's a 'right' religion. and there are many more things i no longer wonder about. because i have sought, and asked, and been given an answer i know is true, according to my level of understanding.

 

part of this learning has been that christianity was given to humans as a TRUE religion, as a genuine way to seek god and to realise the purpose of life. but the message of jesus and the meaning of his life has been perverted by (predominantly) the catholic church leaders of the early centuries. christianity is now a religion that thinks it's on the narrow path but is in fact following the way that seems right unto man. jesus is very frustrated about this but realises that most people who try to preach his actual message (fragments of which DO exist in the bible, believe it or not) are considered by many mainstream (and particularly fundamental) christians to be hell-bound blasphemers, me included.

 

I've been happy in this little "time out" I've been taking on the spiritual front. I'm not losing sleep over the fact that I've lost/misplaced my faith. I don't feel a particular need to pick up the mantle and search God out. The questions are undoubtedly still percolating under the surface for me, but at the moment I don't feel like mounting a full-scale assault on them to figure things out.

 

that's fine. as quank says, there is time. when you are ready, you will know it. and sometimes you need to go somewhere to realise you didn't want to go there after all. i hate clubbing. so occasionally i go, to remind myself why i hate it. same difference. maybe you need to NOT seek to remind yourself why seeking is good.

 

remember god loves you and respects your free will, even if it means you turn away from him for a while. he knows you cannot run forever and that ultimately no experience (even ones we consider un-godly) is wasted if they help you reach the point of being ready to face the truth.

[Storyrider]

Most of the times my prayer life was a "your will, not mine" kind of thing - realizing full well that sometimes God says no. The specifics around this experience were so unusual - everything about it seemed very clearly to be God leading me in a specific direction. I battled with myself over the leading, over this very issue, because it seemed counterintuitive, illogical, a product of my own longing. I remember praying around those very lines, for clarity around whether this was coming from God or me. And what I got back truly did not seem like an experience of me projecting things onto God and his character. It's hard to explain.

 

 

 

And my central, existential question is this: WHY is he supposed to speak in a still small voice? Why is it supposed to be so still and small that it can easily be misheard, misinterpreted, or not heard at all?

 

How can we have the certainty that we are hearing God correctly? Does someone who says "God wants me to have this job" hearing correctly too? Can you rule all that stuff out because God doesn't have a specific will for our life so of course a leading about a specific job wouldn't be from God. Isn't THAT limiting God?

 

I accepted the small still voice thing most of my life. Only now I think - why should I have any confidence, ever, that I am hearing GOD, and not just making stuff up? It is all just a little too "hide the ball" for me right now.

 

I get the feeling you are balking at some of the preconceived notions you had built up, rather than at God. Things are more uncertain than you thought. Maybe your particular background gave you some mistaken ideas and you are trying to refine them. I think you should resist the temptation to throw everything out.

 

My husband was telling me last night that when he was in prison, John the Baptist had doubts about Jesus and sent some of the disciples to ask him if he really was "the one". I don't think you are expressing doubts that the bible does not address and express. Even the old testament portrays characters expressing doubt. Job and Jacob come to mind. And back to the NT, even Jesus himself, right, when he is on the cross? I like your idea of taking a break, though, sort of a wait and see attitude. I think that is healthy.

[Love Hurts]

Did you think of that yourself or is that what you were taught in Church?

No I dint … its just when Christ is a mental ascent as appose an ascent of the heart.

Its easy to have a falling away from and wonder why bother with faith.

To retreat and get lost in the world as the mind can forget.

 

When Salvation is of the heart…. The heart is our driver. We may fall or veer off the path… but we always know… He is our Saving grace and we need to get right and keep right with the Lord.

 

So it’s a mental ascent… that produces lack.

There is a diff in a mind and a heart. The heart does not forget; a heart will convict us ...a mind will not.

 

God Bless*

[Love Hurts]

[what i found can't really be expressed in words - it's like trying to express the exact taste of an apple in words. you can get close, but what you get is just words, it's not the taste of an apple. it would be far easier to hand you an apple and tell you to bite into it... ]

 

 

_______________________________

 

 

 

Sunshinegirl,

 

Don't take the apple or bite it. Its not the way.

[pricillia]

Good works without salvation are useless.

They amount to self fulfillment; self-righteousness.

We cannot work our way to heaven.

However good works once saved to count as value to the Lord.

 

Also for man to give an account of his good works to another as in let me boast or brag of my accomplishments unto the Lord. Is so not a good thing.

If we speak of something we have done so to edify or encourage another; its good.

Yet we have to be careful …we are not to blow our own horn if our works are so great another will blow our horn for us.

 

We work to seek the praise of God not the praise of men.

If the praise of men is what we seek then that is our reward and we have lost a reward in heaven.

 

John 12:43

For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

 

Matthew 6:2

Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

 

Matthew 6:1

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

What we do in the name of the Lord is for the Glory of the Lord. Lets store up our treasures in heaven.

 

Matthew 6:20

But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

 

We do not want to loose the gifts of God; to a mans pat on the back.

 

God Bless*

 

 

 

A person does not need salvation to practice love and kindness and assistance toward another living creature. I am not asking for praise or anything else for that matter, but Love hurts... there is a difference from quoting a bunch of BS then actually doing what is right.

 

There is also nothing wrong with letting people know what good you do for another human or animal, they themselves may want to help out and share themselves and thier time.

 

Storing treasures in heaven, what does that mean anyway?????

 

Live for the here and now and do what you can for the good of living creatures... all of this stuff sounds really self centered to me.( I am sure you will find some BS to counter my "evil" sentence...)

 

 

It is funny how you turn around every point that I try to make about actually doing good, taking action instead of just quoting scriptures... it means nothing to me at all... nothing

 

I don't go around praising myself for that matter...

[pricillia]

[what i found can't really be expressed in words - it's like trying to express the exact taste of an apple in words. you can get close, but what you get is just words, it's not the taste of an apple. it would be far easier to hand you an apple and tell you to bite into it... ]

 

 

_______________________________

 

 

 

Sunshinegirl,

 

Don't take the apple or bite it. Its not the way.

 

 

No don't just sit there and look at the apple all day until you starve and die...

[lonelybird]

the internal answers are guided by what jesus called 'the comforter', the holy spirit that he sends to each person. i can feel this comforter as a presence within and around me sometimes and i can hear its 'voice' in my head. the best way i can describe this is... when you have a thought, you know it's YOU having the thought. and like most people, that had been my exclusive experience until recently. now, sometimes, when i am attuned to the holy spirit (i don't call it that but for ease of understanding i'll stick with that title) i have 'thoughts' that i am aware are NOT my own. they seem to come into my conscious mind from a higher place. i put them into words and understand them in words (or sometimes pictures) but the origin of them is outside my mind.

So you believe Holy Spirit exist. Then Jesus was guided by Holy Spirit, and talked what Holy Spirit taught Him. Then if He was guided by Holy Spirit, He didn't seem talk lies, So what He taught IS TRUE. Bible was written also under guide of Holy Spirit. I don't get you, you seem contradict yourself. Or you didn't get Holy Spirit in the first place?

[lonelybird]

Nice post Bluetuesday, That was a very thoughtful reply.

I see, The commandment of Jesus are too strict for you

[amerikajin]

No I dint … its just when Christ is a mental ascent as appose an ascent of the heart.

Its easy to have a falling away from and wonder why bother with faith.

To retreat and get lost in the world as the mind can forget.

 

When Salvation is of the heart…. The heart is our driver. We may fall or veer off the path… but we always know… He is our Saving grace and we need to get right and keep right with the Lord.

 

So it’s a mental ascent… that produces lack.

There is a diff in a mind and a heart. The heart does not forget; a heart will convict us ...a mind will not.

 

God Bless*

 

What do you mean when you say you have "faith" - faith in what?

 

Is the Lord our saving grace, or is our saving grace doing what the Lord has commanded? Do you place a greater importance on keeping right with the Lord, or upon simply helping your fellow man, regardless of whatever happens on the other side?

[bluetuesday]

So you believe Holy Spirit exist. Then Jesus was guided by Holy Spirit, and talked what Holy Spirit taught Him. Then if He was guided by Holy Spirit, He didn't seem talk lies, So what He taught IS TRUE.

 

yes. what he taught was and is true. the people who heard it back then, got the truth, albeit a truth tailored to their level of understanding.

 

but please understand this. the bible is an INTERPRETATION of what jesus taught. it is not the actual teaching because when you read the bible you are not transported back 2,000 years to palestine to hear jesus' voice. the actual teaching was spoken by the holy spirit, through jesus, to the people jesus met while on earth. on the other hand, the bible is a collection of writings which have been translated, selected and interpreted to tell a particular message. yes, there is some truth in the bible, but it is not full of truth. it is not all true. it was created by humans who, to use st paul's analogy, saw through a glass darkly.

 

and even though the bible WAS inspired by the holy spirit, it was not written by the holy spirit. it did not drop from the sky as a finished document. the humans who wrote it were fallable, just like we are. some were better than others at hearing the spirit faithfully, just like we are. i disagree very strongly that god 'wouldn't allow' the bible to be wrong. god's law of free will is what allows the bible to be wrong. do you really think god wouldn't allow the bible to be wrong, but would allow the slaughter of tens of millions of people during any number of holocausts this planet has witnessed? this is totally illogical. i'm sorry, but it's failing to use the brain god gave you.

 

the bible is a mixture of true and false ideas because it is up to us to choose whom we will serve. will we serve the early church leaders, who realised that if they didn't take out the scriptures which led people to question the church's authority, they would lose their power? or will we serve the god who is beyond any earthly teaching that can be put into words, but who can speak to your heart and help you understand a genuinely higher message of truth?

 

lonelybird, i like you. but you seem to think that the humans who created the bible must have somehow known better than you, or had more capacity to know truth than you have. this is a lie, and it was never circulated by god. god wants you to be free of human limitation, and that means freeing yourself from the idea that the bible is anything more than a great book. it IS a great book, but it's not the complete word of god and it contains some false ideas. the message of the church, that as a long as you claim jesus as your saviour, you are saved, is one such false idea.

[sunshinegirl]

No I dint … its just when Christ is a mental ascent as appose an ascent of the heart.

Its easy to have a falling away from and wonder why bother with faith.

To retreat and get lost in the world as the mind can forget.

 

When Salvation is of the heart…. The heart is our driver. We may fall or veer off the path… but we always know… He is our Saving grace and we need to get right and keep right with the Lord.

 

So it’s a mental ascent… that produces lack.

There is a diff in a mind and a heart. The heart does not forget; a heart will convict us ...a mind will not.

 

Fair enough -- my main struggle may simply be that my heart doesn't believe. But do not take this to mean that my heart never believed.

 

Both head and heart need to be engaged to produce a vibrant faith. Head without heart = legalism. Heart without head = emotionalism.

[riobikini]

SunshineGirl, I try to stay off the topic of religion -I really do! (Smile) -but I have something to say about your waning faith:

 

There is a time to be *inspired*, a time to be really inspired -and then a time to absorb and mull over what you know, what you *think* you know -and allow it to be put to the *test*.

 

There is this crucial first time in everyone's life when you suddenly and unexpectedly encounter this pile of accummulated information all, somehow, related to the topic of spirituality -and *your* position with it.

 

But don't assume this will be the *only* time it will happen.

 

The first time it happens may surprise you and shake you.

 

It's a significantly defining time in your life -a kind of highly-intense reckoning with who you are in the universe, whether all the information you have is correct, and how to apply it, once you've determined it's good enough -and true enough- to accept.

 

And it takes *time* to sift through the pile.

 

In your quest to know God, do all that you believe He approves, and *understand* why He asks for, or demands this or that -and why He *does* what He does- you may have become overzealous, and/or *missed* the deeper insight into all the information you have, or misread it, altogether -or not have *grown* to the desired level by not having gone through specific experiences that *having* the knowlege could offer.

 

Question: If an inquisitive, obedient, above-average, sharp-minded child of around 12 years old were to ask his father for the keys to the family car to drive down to the market to pick up dinner -do you think that, because of his good intentions, and his above-average intelligence, and his willingness to do so- that the father should hand him the keys?

 

(Smile)

 

SSG -you are *still* figuring out the bike your Father gave you.

 

Learn to ride it *up hill* and *down hill* -and someday- in good time- you'll graduate to driving the car.

 

 

-Rio

[Road Rage]

sunshinegirl

 

I can relate to what you are experiencing. You, like myself, seem to be one of those people that absorbed what I will call a spiritual dimension early in life. It almost seems to be a detrimental thing to happen. Because you are out of sync with almost all youth. Especially in the late teens and twenties. When everyone seems to be letting it all hang out.

 

It is a tough road to travel. Then, probably somewhere in your early thirties, it all starts to come apart within. It is like starting over because it is like everyone has left you behind. A few days ago I was glancing at a book called "The Road Less Traveled" and read a few paragraphs in there pertaining to this experience.

 

Don`t have the book with me but it basically said part of growing spiritually is often a casting aside of your spiritual beliefs and moving foward guided by your self. From this sort of agnosticism comes a personal discovery of you inward beliefs that have true conviction. Most people experience this sort of "self seeking" from youth. And then from the ashes of that experience move on to spirituality.

 

I am still largely in my casting aside of spirituality. But, there is a change in the direction of a seed of spiritual discovery. It takes time.

[Road Rage]

sunshinegirl

 

Oh! I did not mention about being burned out but I quote you here "....and I decided I was tired. T I R E D. Bone tired. Weary. Done"

 

Yep, that was me too. So, I know exactly how that feels. I can also relate to the feeling of being at peace to just get away from it all. That is pretty much where I am now. Still feels good. But my inner values are starting to emerge out of the fog. It will happen to you also. I don`t think that trancendental nature really ever leaves a person.

[lonelybird]

lonelybird, i like you. .

Of course you like me, I have a bit of Jesus in me, now you know who are you attracted to

 

Yes, Bible is written and translated under guide of Holy Spirit. The big difference between us is that trust God sent Holy Spirit to supervise whole process or not. The same thing go for miracles. If you believe miracles, then miracles will happen to you. If you don't, then miracles won't happen. and obiviously human being cannot fully comprehend the full meaning of Bible. I found there are times I thought certain passage doesn't make sense at all, but after a while when I reread it, it do make sense. when we read Bible we need guidance of Holy Spirit. BUT if you don't trust the Bible is true, or as you said there are some fallable points in the Bible, then it will lead you to distrust God. If doubt come in, the Faith go weak. Doubt don't come from God. Use brain, questioning show we are seeking the truth. but we have to remember salvation is about SOUL salvation, it is NOT intelligence salvation, it is not history salvation, not education salvation. If we rely on our brain too much, it leads to rebellion and pride which are opposite to God's will. and pride will shut out the voice of God. but humble will attract rejoice, pure love, and a glance into kingdom of God, it is beautiful. brothers and sisters love each other so much that they would like to die for each other, I just got a glance, well feelingly. but that make me happy enough, I should remember this.

 

I do like your comment about suffering (previous post). I don't buy the suffering stuff too. If we serve Jesus, it is real joy, and it is commandment from Jesus "don't worry about worldly things" "my yoke is light"

 

Well, if believe in Jesus, obey his commandment, baptised by Holy Spirit cannot make me to enter heaven, what can? What is your teaching?

[lonelybird]

Fair enough -- my main struggle may simply be that my heart doesn't believe. But do not take this to mean that my heart never believed.

 

Both head and heart need to be engaged to produce a vibrant faith. Head without heart = legalism. Heart without head = emotionalism.

Well, maybe this is your journey, nobody can change, only God can. But if you return after you try all things, you will return with full power and your faith will be stronger

[bluetuesday]

The big difference between us is that trust God sent Holy Spirit to supervise whole process or not. The same thing go for miracles. If you believe miracles, then miracles will happen to you. If you don't, then miracles won't happen. and obiviously human being cannot fully comprehend the full meaning of Bible. I found there are times I thought certain passage doesn't make sense at all, but after a while when I reread it, it do make sense. when we read Bible we need guidance of Holy Spirit. BUT if you don't trust the Bible is true, or as you said there are some fallable points in the Bible, then it will lead you to distrust God. If doubt come in, the Faith go weak.

 

i could never mistrust god, that's nonsense. but it ISN'T nonsense to mistrust a group of people who looked at the teachings of jesus as they had been written down, and took some out that they didn't think fitted with what they wanted the bible to say. it is common sense to mistrust marketing people, everyone knows that.

 

did the holy spirit guide the hand of the people who wanted power MORE than they wanted to keep all the teachings of jesus intact? nope. yet god allows the bible to remain an incomplete and somewhat innacurate document because it has been chosen to be that way by humans and god allows humans free will to choose to follow whatever books they like. you could make alice's adventures in wonderland your bible if you liked, and god would allow you to believe it had been inspired by the holy spirit and that the journey down the rabbit hole represented the only true spiritual path that would lead to salvation. this is because god wants you to learn from all your experiences what is of god and what is not of god. he wants you to increase your discernment and for this, you have to be exposed to both true and false ideas and learn to tell the difference.

 

my friend, the bible isn't god - therefore it isn't perfect. the bible is only a book. if you want a real experience of what god really has to say, your mind cannot remain locked in the belief that only one expression of mankind's attempts to explain god is valid. god can never be limited to only one of anything. you have to be prepared to look beyond the bible.

 

but clearly you are not ready for this teaching yet. you are not ready to give up what you know in order to reach for something more. that's okay, most people feel scared to ask questions in case they have to change their whole view of god. they would rather keep what they have (even if it's incomplete) and convince themselves there is no higher teaching, than find something different which might challenge their world view. this was a common reaction to jesus too. most people didn't recognise he was special and decided that the jewish teachings were complete and could never be added to. it's no different today with most people not wanting to recognise that their existing teachings aren't complete.

 

all i can tell you is when you are ready, you will feel differently. if that time comes while you're on LS and you want to ask someone who's already been through it, i'll help you see it isn't scary to learn more about god. it's actually the most wonderful thing you can do.

[sunshinegirl]

I want to thank everyone for posting their thoughts and experiences. I'm not sure I have time to respond to everybody individually, but please know that you've been extremely helpful and I am mulling over all that you've written. I appreciate the kindness and support many of you -- esp. roadrage, bluetuesday, riobikini, topper, pricilla -- have given me of this path, whatever it is, that I'm on. Thanks again.

 

(not that this should be a thread-stopper, either! I welcome any and all additional posts...)

[riobikini]

re:

 

BlueTuesday: "... please understand this. the bible is an INTERPRETATION of what jesus taught. it is not the actual teaching because when you read the bible you are not transported back 2,000 years to palestine to hear jesus' voice. the actual teaching was spoken by the holy spirit... through jesus... to the people jesus met while on earth. on the other hand, the bible is a collection of writings which have been translated, selected and interpreted to tell a particular message. yes, there is some truth in the bible, but it is not full of truth. it is not all true. it was created by humans who, to use st paul's analogy, saw through a glass darkly. "

 

(Smile)

 

Thank you for saying the above.

 

It *needed* to be said.

 

And so much more in your recent posts in this thread.

 

It's certainly appreciated more than you know.

 

Short story, (promise): As a young girl growing up in a rural region having having little exposure to any of the "outside" world -except for our bi-monthly trip to town to get groceries & supplies, or going to school- the most important "other" place we could ever be found was in church.

 

There, (it was supposed) all of us (especially, the children) would get the most important education we could ever receive: the one having to do with the learning, understandng and practice of "Godly" things.

 

To say "no" to going to church was to say "no" to God.

 

So I went.

 

I went slowly, though.

 

On Sunday morning, (and most mornings) it was routine for me to start the "beginning" chores: light the woodstove for breakfast, make sure there was water to cook with, etc., etc., and get the younger children up, fed, and dressed -but having begun to challenge and question all I had heard about God, going to church simply caused me to dread Sundays and having to even think about God -much less go to all the trouble of getting dressed to go worship Him.

 

I was discouraged by any possibility that He could offer any kind of happiness, or peace to me -because He was such a discouraging, austere, and often cruel God, who seemed do do things at His own pleasure, at His own will -and most frustrating- with a "catch" in the rules for everyone else -except Him, of course.

 

(Smile)

 

So I dragged my feet getting dressed (not usual behavior for me), and I dreaded the path to the church.

 

Because I believed much of what was being said, taught, and practiced was conflicted, and confused, and didn't quite "flow" with the whole idea of peace, love, and all the good things that I -from a child's point of view- would expect God was supposed to be, convey, encourage, and represent, I became *very* God un-friendly.

 

I even tried to argue with my mother about God's not-so-perfect "track record" in keeping up His side of the deal.

 

She wasn't surprised with me -but (Smile) she wasn't in the least bit happy, either- and told me to shut up, that God was listening, and that what I had said was almost an "abomination".

 

But I wasn't scared.

 

I figured if someone -even God- was listening and had the power to strike me dead over what I'd said, that I'd be just as well off, anyway, because if I had to live under those types of silly, confusing rules of His -that, given the type of person who'd come up with them, in the first place- He probably, really didn't have the time to waste with insignificant little rebels like me -and that He was more likely, trying to figure out what he "inspired" to be written, or done, or said last to some other soon-to-be prophet, so that He didn't look foolish in front of someone else.

 

So I didn't think I really had much to worry about with His swooping down with massive flaming sword to punish me, kill me.

 

And *that* was pretty much what I thought of God and all His High-and-Mighty stuff.

 

OK -I was young- but, at least, I was thinking.

 

(Smile)

 

I was angered by preachers and teachers in my tiny church who taught what they sincerely believed to be God's Divine Truths.

 

*Because* they couldn't explain any of it to me; they couldn't answer my questions; they couldn't give me the history, the reason(s), the "why's", and "wherefores" that satisfied me.

 

And I really, truly *wanted* to know.

 

Now, I promised a short story, so that's what I'll try to shoot for, here, -but it already looks like I can't keep that promise- my apologies.

 

(Smile)

 

Over time, it became clearer and clearer to me, that these teachers, and preachers, and "Godly" people -though they were, for the most part- sincere and dedicated, and good people, were just not capable of assuming the responsibility of explaining what I needed -they had not been *designed* or *grown to* that skill or talent -yet.

 

And now, I know that not everyone makes a good teacher.

 

Not everyone has developed in his/her knowledge to do that.

 

Some just remain in "safe territory" in regards to what they believe, taking on ideals, and practices, and beliefs just because they were handed down -pre-packaged- a generation previous, and do not require much more than simply accepting the "package".

 

But what I believe often happens most, to procreate and lead the confusing teachings intended by Scripture, is that a few well-intentioned folks, sincere in their beliefs -but not exactly designed to be bonafide teachers/spiritual leaders, try to fill the role anyway, and someone winds up getting mislead, frustrated, confused -and discouraged.

 

Then you have to dig your way out of the tangled mass of misconceptions, beliefs, teachings, etc.

 

Some that you may have held onto, despite their vagueness or contradictions, for years.

 

Something else that comes to mind is this: some things have to be learned all on your own -not particularly *explained* or "taught" by someone else for your personal benefit.

 

That's where the *real* lessons lie, the *real* education, the teachings you can really use for the rest of your life.

 

In closing -despite all my efforts, my youthful hard-headedness and stubborness, and my panting pursuit in my arrogant demand for knowing God- I found Him, anyway.

 

But (Smile) I must admit -it was he who found me, first.

 

Thank you, SSG, for this thread.

 

-Rio

[Love Hurts]

A person does not need salvation to practice love and kindness and assistance toward another living creature. I am not asking for praise or anything else for that matter, but Love hurts... there is a difference from quoting a bunch of BS then actually doing what is right.

 

There is also nothing wrong with letting people know what good you do for another human or animal, they themselves may want to help out and share themselves and thier time.

 

Storing treasures in heaven, what does that mean anyway?????

 

Live for the here and now and do what you can for the good of living creatures... all of this stuff sounds really self centered to me.( I am sure you will find some BS to counter my "evil" sentence...)

 

 

It is funny how you turn around every point that I try to make about actually doing good, taking action instead of just quoting scriptures... it means nothing to me at all... nothing

 

I don't go around praising myself for that matter...

 

 

You see life and the spiritual world with your eyes. Not through the will of Christ.

Big diff!

 

If I could do all the good works of this world and say to Christ…. let me in … I’m pounding on the doors of Heaven... I did a good job; I was just …and I did good works in your honor let me in… I deserve more!!!

Jesus will tell you; “ get away from me I never knew you.”

 

 

Matthew 7:23 I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

If your good works were all it took to remove sin this life.. Jesus was a suicidal lunatic…

 

Ahhh Dahhh. …Looks like You loose!

 

Jesus did not die in vain… my friend you actually lived your life 'your way' and in vain.

 

Wake up before its too late my friend.

 

You know… you just want life your way… that does not jive with Christ.

Who is fooling who?

 

You fool yourself… in the end you loose! You and many rewrite the word of God to suit yourself… All at your eternal [expense] lost?

How many times must you be told? Your a complete lunitic or a fool?

 

Only Chirst knows... not I...

Christ is keeper of hearts.. He knows yours .....I do not...

What makes you tic?

Is it pride?

Is it self enculgence?

Is it foolishness?

I know this... you have heard and rejected... If I can see that...

So does Christ.

 

The question is: "will you wake up... before its to late?"

 

God Bless*

[Storyrider]

In terms of what to take from the bible I would have to weigh in somewhere between Love Hurts and bluetuedsday. I don't think it is infallible and it certainly isn't literal, but I don't think you can compare it to your car manual or even to War and Peace.

 

I would call it a bit more than inspired. It is a holy book in a way that most books are not. And yes, it contains contradictions, sometimes on purpose. Are there errors in it due to human fallibility? Probably.

 

But most importantly, and I'm reiterating now, there is plenty of room for doubt and argument *within* the biblical tradition, despite what some individual teachers/preachers may have told you. There is no need to demote the bible in order to take issue with it.

[Love Hurts]

No don't just sit there and look at the apple all day until you starve and die...

Eve must have thought like you. Do you think?