Lost my faith, might find it again...but might not

[Love Hurts]

Those who study the bible admitting the passage I quoted directly from the bible is showing God uses MAGIC:

 

http://www.bible-study-answers.info/articles/magic-in-the-bible.html

 

I quote:

 

"This is a demonstration of magic powers before Pharaoh"

 

Why is this a point you do not speak about? Why do you try to change the meaning instead of just embracing it as a part of the bible?

 

It IS a part of the bible.

 

And you have said it is the word of God. Are you calling that part into question?

 

 

 

And as far as the Wonderous Works link you posted -

 

it is filled with sites where those words appear

 

and of course those sites that have quotes from the bible which say "wonderous works" were performed.

 

But I am not sure I understand the significance.

 

I'll say right along with you that the bible says that God performs wonderous works.

 

I never said it didn't - now would I.

 

But it DOES say He performed magic as well.

 

 

As far as this link you posted:

 

Scripture on Magic … All Magicians:

http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=magic&ver=kjv

 

Did you post this to show a contradiction in the Bible? Because God used magic and then magic was used by others that were not "men of God"?

 

Because it is somewhat. I can see why you would post it if that was your point.

 

But there are much better examples of contradictions in the Bible.

 

Here's a site that puts them all together:

 

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html#introduction

 

And here's one that is a bit more illustrative:

 

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/Paulianity/contra.html

 

 

The Web Is A Place To Find Everything.

 

 

Happy Surfing To All!

 

Shalom

 

 

This is man striving to confirm God does magic. Friends of yours?

 

 

God does not do Magic…

 

Tricks are for Satans.

[Love Hurts]

Ummmmm.

 

He actually punishes people too:

 

Numbers 5

 

5:27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.

 

 

God is not all love, healing, and happiness.

 

 

You don’t want to be in Gods wrath.

We have a reverent respectable fear of God.

You should too. He is going to judge you as well as we.

[lonelybird]

Do you agree Lonelybird that some things Bluestueday says are in accord with scripture; im amazed at his explanations… yet He looses it when it comes to Jesus is the Son of God and Salvation is key.

 

God Bless*

Yes, SHE:D is very insightful and smart. when concerning some concept might lead people go astray from God, I have to say.

[lonelybird]

Ummmmm.

 

He actually punishes people too:

 

Numbers 5

 

5:27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.

 

 

God is not all love, healing, and happiness.

You don't try to do trespass against your husband, do you?

[Love Hurts]

Yes, SHE:D is very insightful and smart. when concerning some concept might lead people go astray from God, I have to say.

 

Most definitely; that’s the dangerously sad part.

 

You know I have been doing that a lot lately…

I just get these male and females mixed up.

Excuse me B.T. I guess from your icons I assumed you were male.

That just goes to show we never know what or who is inside a package.

Lol:lmao:

 

God Bless*

[Island Girl]

Bluestuesday, I commend you on your ability to break down and explain; you are eloquent… [a wonderful gift]. As I do not agree with all you say; I appreciate your patience in sorting through diminutives.

 

God Bless*

 

Interesting Love_Hurts

 

Bluetuesday posted a view of God that is opposed to your faith.

 

Yet your commend BT without posting to the post content.

 

Moai has posted courteously and as far as I have read is the ONLY one who has stated that he could be wrong.

 

Moai has said it is a very small remote possibility. But that he could be wrong.

 

I have yet to see you commend him for his eloquent posts (of which there are many).

 

 

It seems prejudicial to commend one who is opposed to Christianity and attempt to battle others not stopping short of personal attacks.

 

 

Or is it hypocritical? - Yes. Of course that is the right word.

 

 

[Island Girl]

This is man striving to confirm God does magic. Friends of yours?

 

 

God does not do Magic…

 

 

No. The link posted is not by someone who is my "friend" nor is it someone I know.

 

It is after all a Christian bible study link. And I am an atheist.

 

 

http://www.bible-study-answers.info/...the-bible.html

 

 

Notice it says bible study answers?

 

 

The link and the words posted on it are by your brethren. CHRISTIANS.

 

 

Who when studying the bible acknowledge that when God turned a rod into a serpent it was magic.

[dropdeadlegs]

Again, I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. I have read, and considered, every post and debate and, somewhere in the mix, I feel I am recognizing my own version of "faith." Rather than losing it, I have, more accurately, adopted different beliefs over time that don't necessarily fit into any established organized religion that I have been exposed to. I am still giving thoughtful consideration to many ideas and beliefs that I have always thought to be the only truths, as well as to the thoughts and ideas of the many scholars who have questioned the "absolute truths" themselves.

 

In the over 200 posts here on this one thread, I could probably find something to agree about with almost every poster. Thank you all for sharing your views and understandings on this subject matter. My personal journey is not yet complete, but I'm closer than I have been to whatever destination I arrive at. Your continued input has been valuable.

[Love Hurts]

Interesting Love_Hurts

 

Bluetuesday posted a view of God that is opposed to your faith.

 

Yet your commend BT without posting to the post content.

 

Moai has posted courteously and as far as I have read is the ONLY one who has stated that he could be wrong.

 

Moai has said it is a very small remote possibility. But that he could be wrong.

 

I have yet to see you commend him for his eloquent posts (of which there are many).

 

 

It seems prejudicial to commend one who is opposed to Christianity and attempt to battle others not stopping short of personal attacks.

 

 

Or is it hypocritical? - Yes. Of course that is the right word.

 

 

 

Yes I most certainly was complimenting B.T. obviously she has a knack for breaking down things.

I have read many of her postings and see the ability to reach finite and remain articulate.

 

I find it impressive … just as see Lonelybird as sweet and shares the Love of Jesus. And Pureinheart as on a spiritual communication level with God as that is her work in the Lord. I find it difficult to peg myself other than; I enjoy winning souls for Jesus.

 

We are all unique in Gods family…. B.T. I am concerned over. I feel she was right at one time and has through her intelligence lost the basics… [Jesus is the Son of God and Salvation is the way to Heaven]. As our differences are apparent to all and hopefully so.

 

Even still B.T. can work with many that say there is no God or that freewill is nonexistent or that God created some for Heaven and some for hell, and the scientific realm of it all… etc. etc.

 

I have spoken to many Athiests in other threads and thought to myself if only B.T. were here….I get stonewalled as I do have my limitations.

God moves in mysterious ways; I believe He can use many as stepping-stones, to aid others along the way.

 

So in short… if she can bring one around to ………yes there is a God… It’s a step up from there is NO God. Wouldn’t you agree?

 

Now if that person can move on from that level and find Jesus is God and that Salvation is Key. Its right on.

 

Everyone thinks differently; it takes diverse people to reach a diverse world. The Holy Spirit is the greatest worker and work of all.

 

So yes the compliment remains … it was to the writer [b.T.].

Relax…. This ones not for you.

 

God Bless*

[Love Hurts]

My personal journey is not yet complete, but I'm closer than I have been to whatever destination I arrive at. Your continued input has been valuable.

 

Congrats DDL this is good news; I pray you are a step closer claiming Jesus as Lord and Savior.

 

God Bless*

[lonelybird]

It is for that reason that I accept things based on evidence, and reject that which has none, even though doing so may make me uncomfortable at times.

What evidence about love? can you prove?

[Moai]

You are not persuaded because Holy Spirit left space for your free will .

When you can see things through a child eyes, then you will see God everywhere:bunny:

 

I know you posted this some time ago, but I was reading the Bible earlier and I came across this:

 

Proverbs 14:15 - The simple believeth every word, but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

 

And

 

Proverbs 14:18 - The simple inherit folly, but the prudent are crowned with knowledge.

 

It would seem that--in Proverbs at least--God wants me to be skeptical.

 

Let me say that Proverbs is written in two-verse couplets that are independent of one another, so there is little to be gained by claiming I am taking these quotes out of context. I would also hope that anyone who reads Bible quotes look them up for his or herself to determine the context for themselves.

 

I can't remember who it was who posted this idea, but it seems to be true that believers do NOT want others to read the whole book. If you go to www.biblegateway.com and www.thebible.com they do not have a version of the Bible that starts at Genesis and ends in Revelations; rather you are supposed to type in a keyword and they find the scripture for you, in essence putting themselves between you and the Bible itself. Why would they do that? A search function is nice, but why not have both?

 

The Skeptics Annotated Bible not only has every chapter listed and available by link, but also quotes grouped by type and a search function. Does anyone besides me find it curious that those who are Skeptical of the Bible are the freest with the information in it?

 

P.S. After posting this I was able to dig up a section on bible.com that features a chapter listing of the Bible--but it wasnot immediately evident. But, in all fairness, it is actually there.

[Moai]

I had said before that nobody knows what happens after you die. It seems that the Bible agrees with me here:

 

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

3:20 All go unto one place, all are of dust, and all turn to dust again.

3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

3:22 Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works,; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?

 

Please explain why Ecclesiastes is wrong here. I included the passages before and after the important part to better show context of the passage--and I find it interesting that this verse says that works are most important.

[Moai]

I had said before that nobody knows what happens after you die. It seems that the Bible agrees with me here:

 

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

3:20 All go unto one place, all are of dust, and all turn to dust again.

3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

3:22 Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works,; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?

 

Please explain why Ecclesiastes is wrong here. I included the passages before and after the important part to better show context of the passage--and I find it interesting that this verse says that works are most important.

[lonelybird]

I know you posted this some time ago, but I was reading the Bible earlier and I came across this:

 

Proverbs 14:15 - The simple believeth every word, but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

 

And

 

Proverbs 14:18 - The simple inherit folly, but the prudent are crowned with knowledge.

 

It would seem that--in Proverbs at least--God wants me to be skeptical.

 

Let me say that Proverbs is written in two-verse couplets that are independent of one another, so there is little to be gained by claiming I am taking these quotes out of context. I would also hope that anyone who reads Bible quotes look them up for his or herself to determine the context for themselves.

 

I can't remember who it was who posted this idea, but it seems to be true that believers do NOT want others to read the whole book. If you go to www.biblegateway.com and www.thebible.com they do not have a version of the Bible that starts at Genesis and ends in Revelations; rather you are supposed to type in a keyword and they find the scripture for you, in essence putting themselves between you and the Bible itself. Why would they do that? A search function is nice, but why not have both?

 

The Skeptics Annotated Bible not only has every chapter listed and available by link, but also quotes grouped by type and a search function. Does anyone besides me find it curious that those who are Skeptical of the Bible are the freest with the information in it?

 

P.S. After posting this I was able to dig up a section on bible.com that features a chapter listing of the Bible--but it wasnot immediately evident. But, in all fairness, it is actually there.

Please DO read the whole Bible.

 

Proverbs 14:15 - The simple believeth every word, but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

Here I think "believe every word" means "believe every word from people". You know, we cannot believe every word from people, some word are positive; some are negative, we cannot take all.

I don't think God want us to be skeptical about His words though, God says "believe in all, trust in all"

 

Good works are good, but cannot gain soul salvation ONLY by good work. Good works don't deal with inside. I think good work can produce two things. 1. Pride. also a person can do evil things, then after that he can do good things to console his conscience. 2. Burden. he don't know how many good work are enough to go to heaven, maybe he always think he didn't do enough.

 

But if Jesus in you change you inside soul, you would be happy to do good works, because Jesus is in you, that is who he is, giving, loving. that's why the Bible says Jesus break the curse of law. If you try to obey laws rely on yourself, you would feel tired. but if you rely on Jesus, ask Him to help you, It would be easy because Jesus would reveal to you the key point, and when you do wrong, He will remind you.

[lonelybird]

Jeremiah:

My heart is crushed, and I am trembling. Because of the LORD, because of his holy words, I am like a man who is drunk, someone who has had too much wine.

23:10 The land is full of people unfaithful to the LORD; they live wicked lives and misuse their power. Because of the LORD's curse the land mourns and the pastures are dry.

23:11 The LORD says, "The prophets and the priests are godless; I have caught them doing evil in the Temple itself.

23:12 The paths they follow will be slippery and dark; I will make them stumble and fall. I am going to bring disaster on them; the time of their punishment is coming. I, the LORD, have spoken.

23:13 I have seen the sin of Samaria's prophets: they have spoken in the name of Baal and have led my people astray.

23:14 (*)But I have seen the prophets in Jerusalem do even worse: they commit adultery and tell lies; they help people to do wrong, so that no one stops doing what is evil. To me they are all as bad as the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.

23:15 "So then, this is what I, the LORD Almighty, say about the prophets of Jerusalem: I will give them bitter plants to eat and poison to drink, because they have spread ungodliness throughout the land."

23:16 The LORD Almighty said to the people of Jerusalem, "Do not listen to what the prophets say; they are filling you with false hopes. They tell you what they have imagined and not what I have said.

23:17 To the people who refuse to listen to what I have said, they keep saying that all will go well with them. And they tell everyone who is stubborn that disaster will never touch them."

23:18 I said, "None of these prophets has ever known the LORD's secret thoughts. None of them has ever heard or understood his message, or ever listened or paid attention to what he said.

23:19 His anger is a storm, a furious wind that will rage over the heads of the wicked,

23:20 and it will not end until he has done everything he intends to do. In days to come his people will understand this clearly."

23:21 The LORD said, "I did not send these prophets, but even so they went. I did not give them any message, but still they spoke in my name.

23:22 If they had known my secret thoughts, then they could have proclaimed my message to my people and could have made them give up the evil lives they live and the wicked things they do.

23:23 "I am a God who is everywhere and not in one place only.

23:24 (*)No one can hide where I cannot see them. Do you not know that I am everywhere in heaven and on earth?

23:25 I know what those prophets have said who speak lies in my name and claim that I have given them my messages in their dreams.

23:26 How much longer will those prophets mislead my people with the lies they have invented?

23:27 They think that the dreams they tell will make my people forget me, just as their ancestors forgot me and turned to Baal.

23:28 The prophet who has had a dream should say it is only a dream, but the prophet who has heard my message should proclaim that message faithfully. What good is straw compared with wheat?

23:29 My message is like a fire and like a hammer that breaks rocks in pieces.

23:30 I am against those prophets who take each other's words and proclaim them as my message.

23:31 I am also against those prophets who speak their own words and claim they came from me.

23:32 Listen to what I, the LORD, say! I am against the prophets who tell their dreams that are full of lies. They tell these dreams and lead my people astray with their lies and their boasting. I did not send them or order them to go, and they are of no help at all to the people. I, the LORD, have spoken."

[Moai]

What evidence about love? can you prove?

 

Yes. It is all about chemistry. Unless you speak of "love of your fellow man" which stems from wanting to be loved one's self.

 

There is an evolutionary benefit for this, because the stronger the tribal unit, the stronger the individual. There are actually a fair number of books either recently released or about to be released on the subject, which is really quite interesting.

[Moai]

Jeremiah:23

 

I deleted the scripture you quoted for brevities sake. I am not sure why you posted that, but it would seem that you are accusing me of being a false prophet somehow.

 

In my previous two posts, I just quoted the Bible. Are you saying that the writer of Ecclesiastes is a false prophet? If so, how can you tell, and what is his writing doing in the Bible?

 

The other quote was Proverbs, also in the Bible.

 

I did not add to or take away from the meaning of the passages in any way, and rather than specifically make assertions based on their meaning, I simply asked how you (or any other believer who would like to) can make such things jibe with their beliefs. That's all.

 

Let's assume the Bible is perfect. If that is so, then all of it is true and accurate, and it is internally consistent--that is to say, it agrees with itself. Now, since that must be the case, all the verses should agree with each other, regardless of the context involved. It would be obvious when quoting something about how to treat your slaves versus how to attain eternal life that the two passages don't relate to each other literally, but otherwise passages about life after death should agree, etc. Do they or don't they?

[lonelybird]

I deleted the scripture you quoted for brevities sake. I am not sure why you posted that, but it would seem that you are accusing me of being a false prophet somehow.

 

In my previous two posts, I just quoted the Bible. Are you saying that the writer of Ecclesiastes is a false prophet? If so, how can you tell, and what is his writing doing in the Bible?

 

The other quote was Proverbs, also in the Bible.

 

I did not add to or take away from the meaning of the passages in any way, and rather than specifically make assertions based on their meaning, I simply asked how you (or any other believer who would like to) can make such things jibe with their beliefs. That's all.

 

Let's assume the Bible is perfect. If that is so, then all of it is true and accurate, and it is internally consistent--that is to say, it agrees with itself. Now, since that must be the case, all the verses should agree with each other, regardless of the context involved. It would be obvious when quoting something about how to treat your slaves versus how to attain eternal life that the two passages don't relate to each other literally, but otherwise passages about life after death should agree, etc. Do they or don't they?

No, do you think you fit into prophet? No, I don't think so. you asked questions about religion.

Why did you assume every my word is beating you?

So please continue your questions

[lonelybird]

Yes. It is all about chemistry. Unless you speak of "love of your fellow man" which stems from wanting to be loved one's self.

 

There is an evolutionary benefit for this, because the stronger the tribal unit, the stronger the individual. There are actually a fair number of books either recently released or about to be released on the subject, which is really quite interesting.

Seems scientist lovers all have same brain. no different, no fun

I see, so when chemistry died, then relationship die? no wonder why today's divoice rate so high. BECAUSE they abandon God!!!!!

 

So when you see a poor hungry child, you feed him, then you want love from him back?

[Moai]

Please DO read the whole Bible.

 

I have. I refer to it often, and have read it all the way through five or six times.

 

Proverbs 14:15 - The simple believeth every word, but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

Here I think "believe every word" means "believe every word from people". You know, we cannot believe every word from people, some word are positive; some are negative, we cannot take all.

I don't think God want us to be skeptical about His words though, God says "believe in all, trust in all"

 

How am I to know what is the word of God versus the word of people unless I am skeptical? Do I accept it because you say so? That would be believing words from people, right? God's word should stand up to scrutiny better than anything else ever written, so I would not imagine God would fear a skeptical look at it.

 

Good works are good, but cannot gain soul salvation ONLY by good work. Good works don't deal with inside. I think good work can produce two things. 1. Pride. also a person can do evil things, then after that he can do good things to console his conscience. 2. Burden. he don't know how many good work are enough to go to heaven, maybe he always think he didn't do enough.

 

May I quote Jesus?

 

Matthew 19:16-18 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me."

 

If I may paraphrase Robert Ingersoll, right here was a perfect opportunity for Jesus to lay out exactly what it takes to be saved.

 

Notice he never says, "You must be born-again" or "believe I am the Son of God", he lists five commandments (and incidentally makes one up; there is no "love thy neighbor" commandment) to follow and says give up all your stuff. And that is a direct quote from Jesus.

 

Clearly, Jesus is saying that you ARE saved by your works.

 

This is expressed also in Mark 10:17-19, Luke 18:18-22, 10:25-28, Acts 10:35 Ezekiel 18:4-9, James 1:25, 27, 2:21, 25, Romans 2:13, 1 Corinthians 7:19, Luke 19:8-9, John 5:28-29, Deuteronomy 10:12, and Ecclesiastes 12:13.

 

Or does God just pick and choose people?

 

Psalms 65:4 "Blessed is the man whom thou choosesth, and causeth to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts."

 

See also John 6:44, 65, 17:9, Acts 22:14, Romans 9:16, 18, and Psalms 86:13.

 

Or are you correct, and we are saved by faith?

 

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou halt be saved, and thy house.

 

See also John 14:6, 3:15-16, 18, 36, 6:28-29, 47, 11:25-26, Acts 4:12, 13:39, Romans 1:16-17, Hebrews 11:6, Ephesians 2:8-9.

 

There are also passages that say it is all predetermined.

 

Acts 13:48 "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

 

Ephesians 1:4-5 ""According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his."

 

See also 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Ephesians 1:11, Matthew 24:24, 31, Proverbs 16:9, 20:24, 2 Tim. 2:10, 1 Peter 1:2, 2:8.

 

It is clear that you believe that we are saved through faith. How did you arrive at this conclusion? if the Holy Spirit told you this was the case, what does the Holy Spirit say about the verses that do not say that?

 

Paul is mainly the one who says saved by faith, while Jesus clearly says above you are saved through works. Do we believe Jesus or Paul? Or neither?

 

But if Jesus in you change you inside soul, you would be happy to do good works, because Jesus is in you, that is who he is, giving, loving. that's why the Bible says Jesus break the curse of law. If you try to obey laws rely on yourself, you would feel tired. but if you rely on Jesus, ask Him to help you, It would be easy because Jesus would reveal to you the key point, and when you do wrong, He will remind you.

 

Well, I don't have Jesus in my soul and I am happy doing good works. Secondly, while there are passages in the New Testament that suggest a "new" covenant, that has its own issues with Biblical prophecy and errancy which I have touched on before. I would be happy to reiterate that if you (or anyone else) wish.

[Moai]

No, do you think you fit into prophet? No, I don't think so. you asked questions about religion.

Why did you assume every my word is beating you?

So please continue your questions

 

It isn't that I assume your words are "beating" me, but I did think that they would have been relevant to the thread somehow, and that was the only thing I could come up with.

[Moai]

Seems scientist lovers all have same brain. no different, no fun

I see, so when chemistry died, then relationship die? no wonder why today's divoice rate so high. BECAUSE they abandon God!!!!!

 

So when you see a poor hungry child, you feed him, then you want love from him back?

 

On the contrary, I think science is really fun. And you asked for evidence of love, and that is what I gave you. Now, if you were asking me how I feel about love, or if I enjoy love, or if I am in love, that is a completely different thing. Just because love is a chemical reaction (probably), it doesn't mean it doesn't feel good. Also, we have no idea what makes that chemical reaction happen--so science marches on! Another mystery to solve! Doesn't that sound like fun?

 

By the way, according to ReligiousTolerance.org, divorce rates for conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and for atheists and agnostics. In fact, atheists/agnostics had the lowest divorce rate of any group, at 21%.

 

The article also quotes a study that shows 90% of divorces among born-again couples happen AFTER the couples have been saved.

[Island Girl]

Yes I most certainly was complimenting B.T. obviously she has a knack for breaking down things.

I have read many of her postings and see the ability to reach finite and remain articulate.

 

I find it impressive … just as see Lonelybird as sweet and shares the Love of Jesus. And Pureinheart as on a spiritual communication level with God as that is her work in the Lord. I find it difficult to peg myself other than; I enjoy winning souls for Jesus.

 

We are all unique in Gods family…. B.T. I am concerned over. I feel she was right at one time and has through her intelligence lost the basics… [Jesus is the Son of God and Salvation is the way to Heaven]. As our differences are apparent to all and hopefully so.

 

Even still B.T. can work with many that say there is no God or that freewill is nonexistent or that God created some for Heaven and some for hell, and the scientific realm of it all… etc. etc.

 

I have spoken to many Athiests in other threads and thought to myself if only B.T. were here….I get stonewalled as I do have my limitations.

God moves in mysterious ways; I believe He can use many as stepping-stones, to aid others along the way.

 

So in short… if she can bring one around to ………yes there is a God… It’s a step up from there is NO God. Wouldn’t you agree?

 

Now if that person can move on from that level and find Jesus is God and that Salvation is Key. Its right on.

 

Everyone thinks differently; it takes diverse people to reach a diverse world. The Holy Spirit is the greatest worker and work of all.

 

So yes the compliment remains … it was to the writer [b.T.].

Relax…. This ones not for you.

 

God Bless*

 

Again - you side step and dodge what I asked in my original post.

 

I asked why you have compliments for BT and not for Moai?

 

Both are non-Christians.

 

Is it because BT does believe in some form of God so therefore the posts by BT are not scrutinized and addressed the same way?

 

To me - that is hypocritical. As far as what your religion says, a non-believer is a non-believer. All are supposed to be treated the same way. And the bible directly addressed how they are to be treated.

 

Yet there is a dramatic difference in the way you have responded to BT and Moai.

 

I asked WHY there is a difference.

 

You did not address why there was a difference.

 

You stated justification for BT's compliments - and side stepped the issue of why Moai apparently deserves none (even though your compliments are about the eloquence of BT's post though ideas in it are somewhat misguided, etc.).

 

This was the question of my post - I was not inquiring about the validation of your review of BT's post but rather why there is a compliment to one and NOT the other when you have so clearly stated you address non-believer posts with the same hand equally.

 

Are you going to side step the question that is clearly posed in this post again?

[bluetuesday]

i am not going to address every point this time, moai, because i have said enough to awaken a soul that wants to be re-awakened or to see a bigger and infinitely more complex picture. but a couple of things leapt out.

 

What exactly happened between the spiritual world and the material one that made me forget that I really wanted a lot of pain?

 

you took on a dense body on a dense planet where evidence for god MUST be veiled in order to make free will a possibility. in other words, birth made you forget. this isn't the case for everyone - many people, myself included, re-remember the plan they made before they were born.

 

I think to say that a spirit asked to be born with its spine outside of its body so it would know what it is like to be in a wheelchair, never knowing love or companionship, all the while watching and understanding that others have those things is rather sick.

 

you currently have a very narrow viewpoint of the world, moai. there is so much more to it than you have so far realised. you see everything in black and white terms and are therefore unreachable for anyone who would show you the things of the spirit. although i have to say - you know the woman. why does she not feel platonic love and companionship from YOU?

 

If life is energy...

 

it was einstein, not me, who made the discovery that everything is energy. what negative spin you put on it is coloured by your existing beliefs. there are only absolutes when you're looking at life from your perspective. from my perspective there are no absolutes save ultimate truth and untruth. everything else is illusory.

 

If god is uncertain about the result of his behavior, at any moment he could do something and we would vanish, or explode, or morph into something completely different. And given the awesome power a god possesses, the idea of a god wandering around wondering what is going to happen is rather frightening. I don't for a moment think that is the case, though.

 

So, if there is a spiritual battel going on, and god is everything, then god is battling himself?... Ok, so there is really no battle at all then.

 

You argue against yourself. If god is disguising himself as evil but evil does not ultimately exist, then there is no absolute right and absolute wrong.

 

But with limited skill in predicting the outcome of his or my actions. That doesn't sound to self-aware to me, since I am part of everything and god doesn't know what I am going to do in any given situation.

 

You have never died, you have no evidence for these wild claims that you are making. You may sit and concentrate on your circular reasoning and enjoy its vibrations and call it truth, but it is just as delusional as a man claiming he is Napoleon.

 

God is unknowable. Even the greatest theologians of all time agree on this, but they have faith that the god in their sacred texts is real.

 

All ideas about life after death are equally plausible, and have an equal amount of evidence--which is zero.

 

There are many systems of knowing, and so far science is the best one we have, so I use that. When and if a better one comes along, I'll use that. I am not holding my breath waiting for it.

 

Rational thinking and scientific inquiry has evidence to show that it is beneficial, and therefore "right." No other system explains the natural world as well.

 

No, you are doing the same thing they do. "Jesus is god, its obvious and all other religions are hogwash." I don't know what you would call your belief system, but insert it name in place of "Jesus is god" above and that restates your above comment.

 

you have heard but you have not understood.

 

You just said, "You can reject God if you want, but he will judge you and you will go to Hell just the same" but with different words. How nice it must be to be so dogmatic.

 

i don't know how you got this from my post. perhaps you wanted it to be there. i said actions have consequences. i said even mistakes can lead to growth. i also said there is no hell and i would certainly never claim to know who is heading where in this life or beyond it. moai, you don't have to dismiss everything you hear that's new or that doesn't confirm what you already think you know. people are surprising and they can often teach you something. you have taught me something, but then i am open to learning new things.

 

Yes, you are telling me, and I am just supposed to accept it because you say so.

 

sigh. everything i said about you having absolute free will made you come to the conclusion i think you should be FORCED into MY point of view? this is a good example of someone blinkered by dualistic reaoning being able to twist anything.

 

to clarify, i would never want to interfere with your free will - or anyone else's - in order to get them to think a certain way. my entire belief system is based upon what i have experienced of god and what god (or should i say, spiritual teachers in the spiritual realm) has taught me. it would be counterproductive in the extreme to seek to change someone's mind on the issue of god against their will. i speak to give you a different point of view, that's all. what you do with it has absolutely no affect on me. if you reject everything i say outright and call me a moron, i don't mind in the slightest. i am only responsible for myself. i feel no urge or desire to get you to change your mind. i only want to let you know there is more than one way to live.

 

your beliefs are based upon your experience so far and they are valid. my belief is based upon my experience so far, and whether you think it is valid or not should show you how dominated you are by the belief system of science, a system in which other people tell you what to think and feel it's okay to belittle anyone who questions the platform of having to accept other people's findings of what is real, what is unreal, and their assertion that only things you can measure in certain experiments have any validity.