Lost my faith, might find it again...but might not

[burning 4 revenge]

People define "God" from their own sujective experience. There is no objective experience of God, so God becomes a subjective experience for some and therefore is impossible to disprove to those who want to believe in it.

 

It's like trying to disprove emotions.

[Island Girl]

The Lord will accomplish glorious things...He will heal the wounded, revive the dead and bring the good news to the poor.

 

What about the dead that have returned to dust by this time?

 

Is it a case of "sorry, you should have died sooner"?

 

Or have been dead for so long they no longer have tissue but are just bones?

 

Reanimated with no ability to move about - just being a pile of bones forever would be terrible!

 

Even creepier, the ones who are semi-rotting? Some things missing - some not...eeeeeeeeew!

 

 

--- Oh I know what LH and LB will say:

 

The Lord will fix all of this and everyone will have normal looking non-rotting bodies.

 

But it doesn't SAY that does it. -- No.

 

So we don't know that for sure, do we? -- No.

[burning 4 revenge]

BT, you seem to have almost an Eastern conception of what God means to you. I don't know for sure, but if I were to hazard a guess I'd say Jesus would have told you that you were going to Gehena if he heard your ideas.

[burning 4 revenge]

What about the dead that have returned to dust by this time?

 

Is it a case of "sorry, you should have died sooner"?

 

Or have been dead for so long they no longer have tissue but are just bones?

 

Reanimated with no ability to move about - just being a pile of bones forever would be terrible!

 

Even creepier, the ones who are semi-rotting? Some things missing - some not...eeeeeeeeew!

It's interesting, but there was a debate written by the early Church father and eunuch Origen which was titled On Celsus in which the Greek humanist philosopher raises precisely those questions. It was written around 200 AD. I don't remember Origen's response, but it's probably floating around the internet somewhere.

 

My point was that the concept of what the Messiah meant had changed for some several centuries before Jesus' existence. It gives us a context to work with and gives us some perspective about what was going on at that time. In otherwords, the Christ story didn't come out of a vacuum.

[pricillia]

gosh this post is about Faith...

 

It should be about the faith that you have within yourself and within others as well as a unseen higher power. It is personal and should be sacred. There are many different faiths so why does someone have to belive in Christianity to be welcomed, that is bias and inhumane.

 

Religion and or the existence of a higher power should be kept personal between that person and the higher power.

 

All the bible quotes although history?? are in the past. Learn from mistakes yes but also live in the present.

 

If the OP has lost her faith then it is up to her to find in again in her own time. All of these quotes from the bible mean nothing they are just words on a page, intricate yes, dramatic yes, but everyone percieves religion and thier relationship with a higher power in a different way.

 

Why if someone does not have an interest in following scriptures does that make someone unaccepted in the eyes of said higher power, again the relationship is personal and that is the way it should be.

 

Not poored in by a fanatic( not mentioning anyone) because they have a fear that is so great they themselves are grasping at straws just to have some control in thier lives and or others to fullfill a dinstinct void that will not go away until they accept themselves and that everyone is indeed different with different ideas about religion.... none being right nor wrong.

[lonelybird]

gosh this post is about Faith...

 

It should be about the faith that you have within yourself and within others as well as a unseen higher power. It is personal and should be sacred. There are many different faiths so why does someone have to belive in Christianity to be welcomed, that is bias and inhumane.

 

Religion and or the existence of a higher power should be kept personal between that person and the higher power.

 

All the bible quotes although history?? are in the past. Learn from mistakes yes but also live in the present.

 

If the OP has lost her faith then it is up to her to find in again in her own time. All of these quotes from the bible mean nothing they are just words on a page, intricate yes, dramatic yes, but everyone percieves religion and thier relationship with a higher power in a different way.

 

Why if someone does not have an interest in following scriptures does that make someone unaccepted in the eyes of said higher power, again the relationship is personal and that is the way it should be.

 

Not poored in by a fanatic( not mentioning anyone) because they have a fear that is so great they themselves are grasping at straws just to have some control in thier lives and or others to fullfill a dinstinct void that will not go away until they accept themselves and that everyone is indeed different with different ideas about religion.... none being right nor wrong.

We are trying to wake people's conscience up, not cover it up....when you cover your eyes, you can go easily astray or fall into pits

[Island Girl]

We are trying to wake people's conscience up, not cover it up....when you cover your eyes, you can go easily astray or fall into pits

 

You speak but do not listen. Not even to your own words.

 

It's sad really.

[lonelybird]

We are supposed to turn the other cheek, and forgive those who trespass against us. If I don't believe, I am trespassing against God. So why doesn't he turn the other cheek and forgive me? What possible gain does he enjoy by my "believing" in him?

Self-righteousness. You think you didn't do something offen God? No, you did many times, yet God forgave you, forgave you and forgave you. and sent His students to tell you the good news, with PATIENCE. talk about "turn the other cheek". You cannot see your sins against God, doesn't mean you did not do it.

People tend to think they are good people. NO, NO, NO. There are none good people in the earth. who can call themselves good? they think they are good because they cannot see what is real good. if they can see what can be called good, they would feel shame. yes, shame

[lonelybird]

You speak but do not listen. Not even to your own words.

 

It's sad really.

3:18 Those who believe in the Son are not judged; but those who do not believe have already been judged, because they have not believed in God's only Son.

3:19 This is how the judgment works: the light has come into the world, but people love the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds are evil.

3:20 Those who do evil things hate the light and will not come to the light, because they do not want their evil deeds to be shown up.

3:21 But those who do what is true come to the light in order that the light may show that what they did was in obedience to God

[lonelybird]

If you sell your stuff and give it to the poor they immediately benefit. And then you will be poor, too, and as people find the Lord and do what He says lo and behold all of the wealth of the Earth is distributed equally. There are no rich people, there are no poor people because nobody owns anything. Seems like a good idea, until you need to get your appendix out and nobody can do it because they couldn't afford medical school.

No, that means everybody could afford medical school, you are so negative

[lonelybird]

What confusion can there be on the Sabbath? For thousands of years it has been from Sundown Friday evenings untill Sundown Sat evening.

Worshiping on Sunday was the day for worshipping the Roman pagan Sun God Mithra. If you are worshipping on Sunday you are not observing the Sabbath. Also the 25th of Dec is also the birthday of Mithra. Mithra was also born in a cave and of virgin Birth. Mithra died for mans sins and he is the go between from man to the Creator God. Yet Mithra was around at least 2000 years before the advent of the Christian faith. Many believe that Sun Worship and Mithra started in India moved to Persia and then was adopted by The Roman Army. Mithra was the one unifying god of Roman and Greek culture.

Sabbath was made for people; people were not made for Sabbath. The heart which love God dearly is the important thing

[Island Girl]

It's interesting, but there was a debate written by the early Church father and eunuch Origen which was titled On Celsus in which the Greek humanist philosopher raises precisely those questions. It was written around 200 AD. I don't remember Origen's response, but it's probably floating around the internet somewhere.

 

My point was that the concept of what the Messiah meant had changed for some several centuries before Jesus' existence. It gives us a context to work with and gives us some perspective about what was going on at that time. In otherwords, the Christ story didn't come out of a vacuum.

 

 

I wish you'd post more. Between you, Topper, and Moai there is so much I am learning!

 

Fascinating stuff.

[Island Girl]

You don’t want to be in Gods wrath.

We have a reverent respectable fear of God.

 

 

I don't believe in God.

 

So I don't believe in God's wrath either.

 

You say you have a reverent respectable fear of God.

 

I live my life without fear of the imaginary.

 

 

He is going to judge you as well as we.

 

Hey LH -- devoted Believer -- quoter of scripture --

 

You really need to read:

 

Luke 6:

 

6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

 

Or Matthew 7:

 

7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

 

7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

 

7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

 

7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

 

7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

 

 

Oh but wait here's another biblical contradiction right?

 

 

 

 

Because there are also these passages:

 

John 7:

 

7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

 

1 Corinthians 2

 

2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

 

1 Corinthians 5

 

5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

 

1 Corinthians 6

 

6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

 

6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

 

 

So do you bounce back and forth depending on what day it is, how you feel that day, or what?

 

The statements are not blended.

 

The bible says one way - and then the complete opposite.

 

 

Explain this please - this time without the circular circumventing usual vagueness.

:bunny:

[lonelybird]

Since we cannot grow spiritually unless we know good from evil, why is it such a horrible thing for us to have that knowledge? It obviously helps us know what is God and what is Satan, right? So it is necessary for us to have this knowledge, and yet God punished us for getting it.

I heard a pastor talked about this issue. I repeated it, hopeful I got it right way.

After Eve ate the forbidden fruit by following Satan's advice, the spiritual eyes were shut down, the nature eyes were opened.

 

Spiritual eyes: look on God, connect with God. Spiritual eyes can see only lightness, love, trust, and they didn't worry a bit before the nature eyes open

Natural eyes: the eyes we now have. We look the world in natural way. Natural eyes see fear, disappointed, distrust, own desires, no hope, disconnect with God. When undesirable thing happen, people only see thing in natural way, lost hope very quickly

 

 

God sent Adam out into the world knowing that one day Jesus would come and redeem his folly. God also knew that He wants blood during all of this. To what end? He's God, why doesn't he just create all the blood he needs to satisfy him?

 

And before you say, "God doesn't want robots" in truth that is exactly what He wants. He created Adam knowing Adam would sin. He demands blood to atone for this, which He knew he would want. BUt He really doesn't want that much blood, as the blood of His son pretty much takes care of the need right there.

 

Why all the hoops? When Adam and Eve left the Garden, He could have said "Look Here!" and pointed to a cross with Jesus on it, and said, "This is my only begotten Son, and I am killing Him because I demand blood, and His will take care of it. But you have to believe He is my son, or no dice." And then off into history we go. The whole Bible would be a pamphlet. It would definitely be more expedient.

The blood sacrifice is NOT for satisfying God, I am surprised by you. God sent His son for US, US, US. God loves us and want to redeem us. Because human being's sins was horrible, and these sins would cost their life. In order to save their lives, they made animal sacrifice to replace themselves. (don't tell me why God don't forgive them right on the spot without sacrificing anything, because you know what a child would become without punishment). That is the blood sacrifice came from. When God sent Jesus came to earth, God's Spirit dwelled in Jesus, Jesus talked God wanted him to talk; did things God wanted Him to do. Jesus is an example for US. If we strive to be like him and believe in HIm, we can get soul salvation, and can be righteousness in God's eyes. Through Jesus, God shows us that flesh perish but soul can be forever

[lonelybird]

You say so yourself: We respect people until they give us reason not to. If the God described in your book is real, I have no reason to respect Him. His punishments are unjust, he behaves irrationally, and He is cruel for no other sake than it pleases Him. Have you ever read the Old Testament?

Please clarify where God is cruel in the Bible?

 

So God loves us so much that He sent His son. That is great, but He doesn't love us so much that everyone gets a pass, only those who think the right way. Notice, not "behave" the right way, but THINK the right way. When humans lock up other humans for what they think, they are called "prisoners of conscience" and we consider their human rights violated. God sends such people to Hell and we call Him "good and loving." Amazing.

Again we all know if a father spoil his child, what kind of adult this child would grow up to.....no exuses

[lonelybird]

And if you believe in an exemption for some sinners, how do you know that I am going to Hell then? You said above that deciding who goes to Heaven and Hell is not our job. So, you can read the Bible and make an educated guess as to who is going to Hell, but you don't really know, do you?

Yeees, we know. Holy Spirit is a guarantee.

[lonelybird]

And if it is true that by worshiping "unknown god" as you put it they need not repent, why go evangelize them? They are already set, they don't need to hear about Jesus or anything. In fact, the second you tell them about Jesus they are doomed, because now they know, and they will go to Hell--by your thinking. So it is obviously better to not tell anyone from other cultures about Jesus, lest they be damned.

why go evangelize them? so they can have a life that God want them to live. Some very poor country, if you continue to give money to them, they still wouldn't get rich or have a better life. why? Spirit. they don't have hope, don't have right spirit to have a abundant life.

You talked about Islam. Why don't you yourself go to Islam country, see if they have a good happy life there. not just assume they are happy

[lonelybird]

What you suggest is that the Aztecs have no need to repent because all the while they were sacrificing humans to their gods, they didn't know Jehovah, so they get a pass? Is that what you are saying?

 

And after Jesus was crucified, they were still sacrificing humans. And they knew who their gods were. So, the ones who lived before Jesus are fine, but the ones after go to Hell? Is that right?

In fact, God got angered by human sacrificed their own children, and God punished them for this. again, seems you didn't make good use of your free will.

Isaiah 1:10 Jerusalem, your rulers and your people are like those of Sodom and Gomorrah. Listen to what the LORD is saying to you. Pay attention to what our God is teaching you.

1:11 (*)He says, "Do you think I want all these sacrifices you keep offering to me? I have had more than enough of the sheep you burn as sacrifices and of the fat of your fine animals. I am tired of the blood of bulls and sheep and goats.

1:12 Who asked you to bring me all this when you come to worship me? Who asked you to do all this tramping around in my Temple?

1:13 It's useless to bring your offerings. I am disgusted with the smell of the incense you burn. I cannot stand your New Moon Festivals, your Sabbaths, and your religious gatherings; they are all corrupted by your sins.

1:14 I hate your New Moon Festivals and holy days; they are a burden that I am tired of bearing.

1:15 "When you lift your hands in prayer, I will not look at you. No matter how much you pray, I will not listen, for your hands are covered with blood.

1:16 Wash yourselves clean. Stop all this evil that I see you doing. Yes, stop doing evil

1:17 and learn to do right. See that justice is done-help those who are oppressed, give orphans their rights, and defend widows."

[Love Hurts]

Fine, but that doesn't address the point. Nobody speaks in an unknown tongue. At least two people must speak it for it to be a language, just by common sense. What the passage means is that when someone is speaking in tongues (go to a Pentacostal church some time) it is of God.

 

 

 

You quotes above would suggest otherwise. John 14:6 is pretty cut and dried.

 

 

 

Yep. And yet the Aztecs still went on sacrificing. Are you saying that they heard the voice of God and ignored it? Is there any record in any other culture of god somehow giving them the commandments?

 

 

 

Yea, NOW, as in 2,000 years ago. So, for 1492 years the natives of the Americas were screwed--and then when the missionaries showed up to give them the gospel they got screwed AGAIN. Does got hate the natives of the Americas or what?

 

 

 

The Bible claims that, but the Bible is not a good basis to judge what is fair and what is not.

 

 

 

Well, He does. Either you are saved by faith or you are not. You say so yourself. If there are loopholes, then Jesus was wrong when he said there was no way to Heaven but through him.

 

When Jesus was saying, "No way" did he really mean "Almost no way" or "no way for you guys, but those guys have it a little differently" or what?

 

I think the rational explanation is these men made wild claims without thinking it through all the way.

 

 

 

In context, somebody brought a group of children up to Jesus, and the disciples told them to go away, but Jesus said, no let them come over here, and he laid his hands on them. It has nothing to do with children going to Heaven. Good try, though.

 

Right after that is when the kid comes up and asks Jesus how to have enternal life. The kids are still standing closeby, he didn't say, "Well, if you are that young, you have nothing to worry about" did he? Why not? It just didn't occur to him? And Jesus didn't know that there would be some question as to where infants go and not nip in the bud right there?

 

God spoke in an unknown tongue and apparently He had been kept from these people.

The quote of John 14: 6 is of those alive after the cross. And Acts 17:30 is of certain people before the cross.

 

We must understand… God moves though the Holy spirit… example there is an adult female that tells of at the age of four or five she was sitting in a cornfield with a rag doll and bottle caps playing… When she suddenly became aware in her heart and mind that there was a God. No adult in her life had told her. She was just suddenly aware the He was... the Holy Spirit moves like this. Also God can send Angels to speak.

 

And lastly this is where we can rely on equity and no man will say his situation was unfair.

 

Jesus loves children and said the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs.

 

Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

 

Their angels that guard are the privy of angels to see the face of God on behalf of a little one.

 

Yes Since the cross all must be saved. It’s actually all you need to know lest you fall by the wayside, thinking there is a loophole for you. There is none for you. You have heard the word, you are not mentally minus a brain that has the ability to function and you are not an infant or child.

So what is your reason for not coming to Christ…?

 

You will not be able to deny you never heard the word of Jesus Saving grace and that Salvation was offered to you.

 

“Wont you come to Jesus and ask Him into your heart today Moai?” Jesus died for you and for me.

 

God Bless*

[Love Hurts]

What about the dead that have returned to dust by this time?

 

Is it a case of "sorry, you should have died sooner"?

 

Or have been dead for so long they no longer have tissue but are just bones?

 

Reanimated with no ability to move about - just being a pile of bones forever would be terrible!

 

Even creepier, the ones who are semi-rotting? Some things missing - some not...eeeeeeeeew!

 

 

--- Oh I know what LH and LB will say:

 

The Lord will fix all of this and everyone will have normal looking non-rotting bodies.

 

But it doesn't SAY that does it. -- No.

 

So we don't know that for sure, do we? -- No.

 

Just as Christ rose up from the grave.

 

So shall the dead in Christ arise up from the graves to be transformed into a new glorifiyed body.

 

First know.... when we die only our bodies go to the grave.

Our souls have a destinatin immediately upon death.

 

Absent from the body present with the Lord. {this is for believers]

 

So Apostle Paul has been with Christ for approx.2000 years.

Likewise our loved ones in the Lord since departed; are with Him now.

 

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

1Cr 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 

1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

 

1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

1Cr 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.

 

1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

Ephesians 5: 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

 

THE CHURCH IS NOT PERFECT…. AS LONG AS IT HAS FLESH THAT IS CORRUPTION IN ITSELF…. It makes sense if we consider it is the new body we are to have when Raptured.

 

WE INHERIT NEW BODIES MADE OF INCORRUPTION

THEY DO NOT AGE……….WE MUST LIVE IN THEM FOR ETERNITY…

NO SPOT, NO WRINKLE, OR ANY SUCH THING…. But that it should be holy and without blemish.

 

No imperfections, no aged wrinkles, no disease, no corruption… Holy and without blemish.

 

1 Peter 1:4

To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, `Reserved for us.

 

1 Peter 1:23

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. (Saved we will inherit.)

We shall have a new Glorified Body …

 

*Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 

The dead I Christ shall rise first as a courtesy and then we the living.

We shall all be transformed. Christ brings those souls with Him to join up with their new glorified body… and then we are transformed.

 

1 Thessalonians 4:14

for if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, so also God those asleep through Jesus he will bring with him,

 

*Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 

God Bless*

[Love Hurts]

BT, you seem to have almost an Eastern conception of what God means to you. I don't know for sure, but if I were to hazard a guess I'd say Jesus would have told you that you were going to Gehena if he heard your ideas.

 

If only BT. could realize that.

[Love Hurts]

Moai

 

Isaiah 13-14 For thou hast said in thine heart,

I ...will ascend into heaven,

I ...will exalt my throne above the stars of God:

I ...will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I ...will ascend above the heights of the clouds;

I ...will be like the most High.

Lucifer had ...I trouble...he should have seen an optometrist.

 

Maybe he should have.

 

 

 

Then He wasn't perfect. Tell me, how did imperfection get into Heaven--I mean, that is where Lucifer was, right?

 

 

____

 

 

 

Yep. And He allows it. Jeremiah 1:4-5: "Now the word of the Lord came to me saying, 'Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you'..."

 

He forms fetuses in the womb knowing they will be aborted, yet does nothing.

 

 

 

This is probably the best example of cognitive dissonance I have ever come across.

 

 

You believe God should stop these people form having abortions…

He should stop people from doing wrong things.

He should stop all evil...

God will not stop freewill.

 

He does have an ending to this mess we are in … soon Christ returns… The battle of Armageddon will destroy the Antichrist and his followers… Satan and they will be cast into the lake of fire.

 

And Jesus will rule and reign as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

All things will be made new.

 

Praise Jesus!

[Love Hurts]

I don't believe in God.

 

So I don't believe in God's wrath either.

 

You say you have a reverent respectable fear of God.

 

I live my life without fear of the imaginary.

 

 

 

 

Hey LH -- devoted Believer -- quoter of scripture --

 

You really need to read:

 

Luke 6:

 

6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

 

Or Matthew 7:

 

7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

 

7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

 

7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

 

7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

 

7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

 

 

Oh but wait here's another biblical contradiction right?

 

 

 

 

Because there are also these passages:

 

John 7:

 

7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

 

1 Corinthians 2

 

2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

 

1 Corinthians 5

 

5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

 

1 Corinthians 6

 

6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

 

6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

 

 

So do you bounce back and forth depending on what day it is, how you feel that day, or what?

 

The statements are not blended.

 

The bible says one way - and then the complete opposite.

 

 

Explain this please - this time without the circular circumventing usual vagueness.

:bunny:

 

 

We are to come out from among them, and be ye separate from.

2 Corinthians 6:17

 

So how do we know who not to keep company with?

Revelation 21:

 

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

 

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

 

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

 

Luke 10:3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.

 

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Many souls can and will be lead away by the non-ability to discern the difference in a false profit or minister. (Ex. Jim Jones, some Televangelists or the Anti Christ}

 

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

 

Matthew 13:45Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchantman, seeking goodly pearls:

 

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them..

 

On judgement; we have to use judgement to know what God expects from us. To know what to do and what not too;

 

Say there is a street gang fight scheduled at midnight.

Unless you’re a police officer or a minister with a calling from God to be there; you probably should stay away from.

 

Consider a city, we call it a good city or a bad city. Why?

Not because of its buildings; but because of its people.

So again we judge.

 

We judge whom we desire to keep company with; by who is inside that person [hopefully not by looks]. It’s the character of that person.

Some are less discerning than others and befriend trouble.

What about Antichrist, could we discern Antichrist from Christ without judgment?

 

See we use judgment every day… We can also help another if we see they are on the wrong path. Judgment is a good thing. We need to discern what kind of people we are keeping company with.

Is that person someone that will drag us down spiritually or uplift?

If not are we strong enough to uplift that person?

 

Choices we make are aided by our ability to discern and judge [not only our surroundings but] people.

 

[2 Corinthians 6:17]

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate,

 

If a man was hanging out at the bars getting drunk, fighting and falling into crimes and sexual sins …when he finds Christ. Christ will convict his heart that he is not to that anymore. We are to come out from amongst and be separate from. This would be difficult to do if not for the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit will cleanse a man from the inside out and then the man has a conviction in his heart to strive to be holy as Christ is Holy.

As Christians, the good news of salvation is something to share with everyone; all are welcome; Jesus said come as you are; the clean up comes through the Holy Spirit.

 

Also we are to be able to judge in reproof.

Proverbs 5:12

And say, How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof;

 

Proverbs 29:15

The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

 

2 Timothy 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

Yes are to judge…. The Sermon on the Mount Study on Judging explains ...this passage. In fact, Jesus has told us that we can evaluate others if we do it righteously after listening and knowing the truth.

 

All of the tools needed are listed above and then we decide...without condemnation.

Unrighteous judgment; rushing to make judgment in situations

and circumstances when we don't know the facts…this is to error.

 

 

God Bless*

 

 

:bunny: Happy bunny slippers.

[lonelybird]

Brothers and Sisters in Christ, I just read this passage, it is so encouraging

 

1(*)The message you heard from the very beginning is this: we must love one another.

3:12 (*)We must not be like Cain; he belonged to the Evil One and murdered his own brother Abel. Why did Cain murder him? Because the things he himself did were wrong, and the things his brother did were right.

3:13 So do not be surprised, my friends, if the people of the world hate you.

3:14 (*)We know that we have left death and come over into life; we know it because we love others. Those who do not love are still under the power of death.

3:15 Those who hate others are murderers, and you know that murderers do not have eternal life in them.

3:16 This is how we know what love is: Christ gave his life for us. We too, then, ought to give our lives for others!

 

Dear friends, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Whoever loves is a child of God and knows God.

4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love.

4:9 And God showed his love for us by sending his only Son into the world, so that we might have life through him.

4:10 This is what love is: it is not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the means by which our sins are forgiven.

4:11 Dear friends, if this is how God loved us, then we should love one another.

4:12 (*)No one has ever seen God, but if we love one another, God lives in union with us, and his love is made perfect in us.

 

Love you :bunny:

[Moai]

Self-righteousness. You think you didn't do something offen God? No, you did many times, yet God forgave you, forgave you and forgave you. and sent His students to tell you the good news, with PATIENCE. talk about "turn the other cheek". You cannot see your sins against God, doesn't mean you did not do it.

 

Given the manual about what God likes and doesn't like, it is a virtual certainty that I have done something to offend him. However, I am (if I am lucky) going to be on e Earth for 80 years or so. Is it fair, or even reasonable, to suggest that I could do something while alive that would warrant an ETERNITY in Hell?

 

And lest we forget, I go to Hell because I BELIEVE the wrong way. It doesn't matter how cool I am, or how popular I am, or how many starving children are still alive because of me, if I did not BELIEVE in Jesus I am cast into hellfire.

 

And let us be clear about something: Jeffery Dahmer, a homosexual (which god hates) murderer found Jesus maybe a month before he died, and he is in Heaven. If you believe that you are save through faith, it must be so. He repented and accepted Jesus. So, while he was free from jail) he drugged, had sex with, and murdered young men--and kept parts of them in his refrigerator--but because he had the opportunity to repent before he died, he is in Heaven. By your interpretation the Bible says he is. You are not saved by works, but by faith. Is that not correct? All of the horrors committed by Dahmer are washed away the instant he accepted Jesus.

 

Consider one of his victims. He was a young Cambodian, not fluent in English. He was drugged by Dahmer, and taken to Dahmer's residence. Before he was killed, he ran out into the street--naked--and found the police. Because he had very little English skill (and I would say, because of a MASSIVE bias in our culture against homosexuals) the Cambodian was given back to Dahmer to take care of. And take care of him he did, he raped and murdered the boy, and then saved his genitals and head in his refrigerator.

 

That is only one example of SEVENTEEN victims. I cannot imagine how horrific their deaths must have been.

 

And yet, because Dahmer had the opportunity to receive Jesus, he is now in Heaven with the Lord, rejoicing, playing the harp, presumably, and basking in the glow of the company of the Lord. Halleleujah!{sic}

 

Meanwhile, his victim, who came from a Buddhist tradition, did not ask Jesus' forgiveness before he died. We know this because Dahmer was very explicit about what he did to his victims. So, after enduring a torturous death, he had Hell to look forward to. All because he thought about god the wrong way. That's it. He may have been the greatest, most philanthropic person to have ever lived--but he stole a penny when he was six--and God consigned him to Hell. Forever.

 

Think about that. FOREVER. Not only did that poor boy die in an unimaginably horrible way, when he died, Jesus said, "I don't know him" and into the fire he went. From homosexual torture/murder to NEVERENDING pain and torment.

 

Is it even possible for a human to conceive of that? He will be swimming in brimstone forever. Gnashing his teeth, his flesh peeling away, without respite forever.

 

Meanwhile, the man how raped, tortured and killed him is sitting with god, enjoying neverending happiness and fulfillment, in the company of Jesus. And Jesus is happy to have him there, as he was saved, and that thwarted Satan and his plan to get as many into hell as possible.

 

Praise him who is is on high, and is mighty and good in His judgment!

 

Scripture does not say that Dahmer had to go somewhere and make it even before he got into Heaven--he went right in. He stood before God, and before God could even start on the litany of things that Dahmer did, Jesus said, "I know him" and into Heaven he went.

 

All because he repented, and took Jesus into his heart. He thought about god the right way, and that got him in. That's it. His victim, who was raised in a different culture and therefore didn't think about god the right way, experienced a horrible death, and unimaginable torture FOREVER after that.

 

Super! Sign me up. Not only do I think that is a fabulous belief system, it makes PERFECT sense!

 

I do not think that there is a human on this planet who can possibly say that such events occurring is remotely just, but here is the rationalization you will get: Who are you to question god? God is good and loves everyone, and all men fall short of his glory, and so deserve to go to Hell. While God hates that even one person goes to Hell, it must be that way, because god demands respect/love/belief/devotion/repentance.

 

If we are saved by grace, everyone in Hell is there because of a thought-crime. That's it. That would be the same as me saying "all who don't like orange juice will be imprisoned" and nobody thinking twice about it. In fact, God giving us the opportunity to like orange juice shows his love for us!

 

People tend to think they are good people. NO, NO, NO. There are none good people in the earth. who can call themselves good? they think they are good because they cannot see what is real good. if they can see what can be called good, they would feel shame. yes, shame

 

Well, I can see objectively that Dahmer was not good, but he thought about God the right way, so he is in Heaven. Say "hi" to him for me when you see him in the cafeteria.

 

I'll be where it's hot, hanging out with Mark Twain, Robert Ingersoll, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Voltaire, and Thomas Paine (amongst many others.)

 

Have fun rapping with Jeffery Dahmer, David Berkowitz, Jerry Falwell, Jimmy Swaggart, and Pat Robertson (and other ground-breaking thinkers and moralists.)