Lost my faith, might find it again...but might not

[Storyrider]

Which raises an interesting point: Satan must know what Heaven is like, and what it is like to be around god. Yet he chose to disobey him. How can that be? And how can a god who is all-loving create a being who is evil--and allow said being to torment the rest of his creation? If he has seen and talked to god and seen Heaven, he must be retarded, right? Isn't Heaven perfect? Why leave somewhere that is perfect, unless you are too stupid to realize that its perfect.

 

Use your imagination.

[Love Hurts]

:laugh:That is so funny!

 

I like how you have Clinton just above Hitler. I'm no fan of his or anything, but I would say that he is a long way from Hitler. A long, long way.

 

Most of the Fundamentalists I have read are just about the same as Hitler, just as filled with hate, just as anti-freedom, and just as bankrupt. I'll quote a couple for you:

[FONT=verdana,sans-serif][sIZE=2][/FONT][/sIZE]

[sIZE=2][FONT=verdana,sans-serif]"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism." [/FONT][/sIZE]

[sIZE=2][FONT=verdana,sans-serif]--Randall Terry, The News Sentinel, (Ft. Wayne, IN.), 8/16/93 [/FONT][/sIZE]

[sIZE=2][FONT=verdana,sans-serif][/FONT][/sIZE]

[sIZE=2][FONT=verdana,sans-serif][/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=verdana,sans-serif][sIZE=2] "The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant--baptism and holy communion--must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel." [/FONT][/sIZE]

[sIZE=2][FONT=verdana,sans-serif]-- Gary North - Political Polytheism: The Myth of Pluralism, Tyler, TX: Institute for Christian Economics, 1989, p. 87 [/FONT][/sIZE]

[sIZE=2][FONT=verdana,sans-serif][/FONT][/sIZE]

[sIZE=2][FONT=verdana,sans-serif][/sIZE][/FONT]If the "fruit scale" is true, where do Jimmy Swaggart, Ted Haggard, Jim Bakker, Benny Hinn, and just about every other evangelist rank? They lie in the name of the Lord, so are they worse than rotten fruit, or bruised, or what?

 

And how is it that so many people, who believe just as you do, are taken in by such men? They espouse the same beliefs as you, and yet they are clearly evil. Does that mean that all those people are cursed, as the Holy Spirit didn't help them discern the evangelists' true intent?

 

And Jesus saved you from something he himself created. Why create it in the first place? Why mot just forgive everyone out of hand, since nobody is, or ever will be, perfect?

 

Matthew 13:13

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

 

--"The Secret" to those who hear and understand and those who hear and do not…. Is freewill;

 

by choice... men choose Not to hear, see or understand.

Its no secret at all.

[amerikajin]

I like that comment. I think you make more sense with that comment than all of the most brilliant philosophers and scientists of all time.

 

Anyways Moai, why are you and Amerikajin trying to destroy the faith of the believers. Their faith makes them happy.

 

Because they were the ones who took it upon themselves to preach to me first, as is typically the case with religious fundies. They seem not to mind questioning my religious beliefs but when I question theirs, it's a different ballgame.

 

If they can't take criticism, that's too bad.

[Love Hurts]

Wow, Love Hurts, you preach like no tomorrow.

Ok, there are some quotes about love from Bible, I like them very much! People need love these days.....

 

--But now I tell you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you

--Why should God reward you if you love only the people who love you? Even the tax collectors do that!

--The seeds that fell among thorn bushes stand for those who hear the message; but the worries about this life and the love for riches choke the message, and they don't bear fruit.

--respect your father and your mother; and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

--Jesus answered, " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.

--I tell you, then, the great love she has shown proves that her many sins have been forgiven. But whoever has been forgiven little shows only a little love."

--Jesus answered him, "Those who love me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and my Father and I will come to them and live with them

--This hope does not disappoint us, for God has poured out his love into our hearts by means of the Holy Spirit, who is God's gift to us

--For I am certain that nothing can separate us from his love: neither death nor life, neither angels nor other heavenly rulers or powers, neither the present nor the future,

--Love must be completely sincere. Hate what is evil, hold on to what is good

--If you love others, you will never do them wrong; to love, then, is to obey the whole Law.

--Now, concerning what you wrote about food offered to idols. It is true, of course, that "all of us have knowledge," as they say. Such knowledge, however, puffs a person up with pride; but love builds up.

--I may be able to speak the languages of human beings and even of angels, but if I have no love, my speech is no more than a noisy gong or a clanging bell

--I may have the gift of inspired preaching; I may have all knowledge and understand all secrets; I may have all the faith needed to move mountains-but if I have no love, I am nothing.

--Love is patient and kind; it is not jealous or conceited or proud;

love is not ill-mannered or selfish or irritable; love does not keep a record of wrongs;

love is not happy with evil, but is happy with the truth.

Love never gives up; and its faith, hope, and patience never fail.

Love is eternal.

--Meanwhile these three remain: faith, hope, and love; and the greatest of these is love.

 

Lonelybird,

 

It is good to hear your words of love of Christ. As many look for love in this world, in the end no one has loved them more than Christ. Sadly many never come to realize that.

 

I cannot alter the road I am on. I appreciate your sharing of love of Christ… you and I touched base on this before.

I stand firmly in as we are believers in the body of Christ. The Lord uses all of us to get His word out there.

 

Example; between the both of us … we have obtained balance of the word. Do you see that?

 

You present the gracious love of Christ and tell all they are welcome.

I do the same and have the tendency to reflect on the here after more strongly… I want others to consider a eternity..

 

Then if after hearing the words of Love and knowing the path of separation from Christ carries one into eternity. Next one can make an honest decision based on all the facts presented to them.

You see this is why Christ uses all the members of the body to make a whole body?

 

We all have a driven purpose in our walk with Him. Where one is lacking the other picks up or where one leaves off the other picks up … it’s a fulfillment of the word and edifies those that hear.

 

Reflecting on the teachings of the word when I was unsaved. I heard it all… No one walked on eggshells for me. My salvation was a step taken out of a Love, respectful fear of Him and a micro amount of faith that He Lives.

 

God is our Judge, do we take that lightly or do we have a respectful fear of that knowledge?

 

Proverbs 9:10-12KJV): "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

 

11 For by me thy days shall be multiplied, and the years of thy life shall be increased.

 

12 If thou be wise, thou shalt be wise for thyself: but if thou scornest, thou alone shalt bear it."

 

Verse 12 tells us that wisdom has its own reward, and if we scorn her, we will only hurt ourselves. God created us with a free will and He will not force us to make the right decisions. What we do with our lives is our own decision. If we ignore God and His wisdom, we will suffer the consequences, because we reap what we sow.

 

However, on the positive side, if we yield to the will of God, and ask for His help to lead a righteous life that is full of wisdom, He will grant our request, if we totally commit to Him. When we follow and obey God, we will also be blessed and receive the promises that are given to us in the Holy Bible.

 

With respectful fear we grow in Behavior ,Conversation , Respectful Reverence; Chaste.

 

1 Peter 3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

 

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

 

Joined with a loving fear of displeasing Him; we consider our conduct and strive to live pure lives. Shrinking from doing anything that is wrong.

 

We know if we step out of His will we will be chastised. [Hebrews 12:8]

 

We do desire to please God and live this life accoding to His will. When we finally see Him. We do not want to be ashamed of our lives lived on earth. We desire to hear…well done good and faithful servant.

People need balance in putting together understanding God.;

 

1.The Solitariness of God

2. The Decrees of God

3. The Knowledge of God

4. The Foreknowledge of God

5. The Supremacy of God

6. The Sovereignty of God

7. The Immutability of God

8. The Holiness of God

9. The Power of God

10. The Faithfulness of God

11. The Goodness of God

12. The Patience of God

13. The Grace of God

14. The Mercy of God

15. The Love of God

16. The Wrath of God

 

And above all this… Love of Him is what drives me more than anything. What causes a couple to marry? Love.

 

What causes a couple to be faithful? Love {and respectful fear of loosing the one you love.

 

God is All things. Love is foremost... as He stretched out His arms and died for us.

 

God Bless* you in your walk in the Lord Lonelybird.

[pricillia]

Yes but LB and LH what action have you both taken other then say that you have found the holy spirit... what good things have you done that shows you are a good person. LH I think that there was something major in your life and although I think it is great that you have found the word of god and you think that you have been saved, what does your heart truly say to you, I think you are missing something in your life and this plight that you are on is to fill a void.

 

Yes I often think with my heart and not my head and that is what gets me into trouble.

[Love Hurts]

Yes but LB and LH what action have you both taken other then say that you have found the holy spirit... what good things have you done that shows you are a good person. LH I think that there was something major in your life and although I think it is great that you have found the word of god and you think that you have been saved, what does your heart truly say to you, I think you are missing something in your life and this plight that you are on is to fill a void.

 

Yes I often think with my heart and not my head and that is what gets me into trouble.

 

You asked about good works before … I refuse to list what I feel is valued to the Lord. Its to His honor I do good things.

 

Not to mans honor… I do not seek your praise your pat on the back is useless to me.

 

I store up my treasures in Heaven… not on earth where thieves, moths and rust take away and destroy.

 

Nothing here goes with me, no one here will stand beside me as I am judged by Christ.

 

I will stand alone before Him and be held accountable for this life lived.

So again my work is to Glorify Him. Its personal and I leave my lives work [after salvation] to Christ to judge me; and reward me or strip me of rewards.

 

You should not take count of mens good works… you could fall into the wolf trap.

Many do-good works in the name of the Lord… so did Jim Jones.

[Moai]

Moai

You can keep all your rational reasoning. and I keep my irrational loving supernatural God. FAIR?

 

Of course that's fair.

[pricillia]

You asked about good works before … I refuse to list what I feel is valued to the Lord. Its to His honor I do good things.

 

Not to mans honor… I do not seek your praise your pat on the back is useless to me.

 

I store up my treasures in Heaven… not on earth where thieves, moths and rust take away and destroy.

 

Nothing here goes with me, no one here will stand beside me as I am judged by Christ.

 

I will stand alone before Him and be held accountable for this life lived.

So again my work is to Glorify Him. Its personal and I leave my lives work [after salvation] to Christ to judge me; and reward me or strip me of rewards.

 

You should not take count of mens good works… you could fall into the wolf trap.

Many do-good works in the name of the Lord… so did Jim Jones.

 

 

Yeah that is where we are both different, Good works for me is not in the name of the lord at all, it is because I know it is the right thing to do, and the funny thing is ha ha I never ask for anything in return.

 

I am not asking you to list anything at all LH but what I am saying is you can quote all you want to and believe all you want to but for me taking action is where I will find peace in my heart.

 

And please don't pray for me, just accept me as I am.

[Moai]

I like that comment. I think you make more sense with that comment than all of the most brilliant philosophers and scientists of all time.

 

Anyways Moai, why are you and Amerikajin trying to destroy the faith of the believers. Their faith makes them happy.

 

It isn't so much that I am trying to destroy their faith, I would just like them to be able to explain it, the same way someone would explain why they are in one particular political party and not another.

 

It could be argued that someone who is happy in a falsehood is not happy at all; moreover, in many cases this "faith" bleeds over to the real world and causes a great deal of pain and suffering.

 

Coupled with that is the very real anti-science and anti-intellectual beliefs and actions of Fundamentalist believers and it "faith" becomes something that is detrimental to everyone, even those who do not share the belief.

 

The U.S. is by far the most religious nation in the Western world. We rank just above Turkey in science education. Technology is developing at an exponential rate, yet our children are not being prepared to deal with it. If this trend continues, the US will be a backwater that is exploited by the nations who understand and use science and technology for their benefit.

 

Thinking rationally has actually produced tangible results in the world, while faith has not. We owe the entire world we live in and the way we live in it to rational, scientific thought. There is a bounty of food on our store shelves, we have modern medicine, the internal combustion engine, even the very notion of freedom we have because of secular, rational, scientific thought. What has faith given us? Some people feel good. That's it.

 

And that is the key, isn't it? SOME people feel good. Many, many others don't. And haven't. I cannot name one society that has become more oppressive as it has become more rational, but I can think of a great many that become more oppressive as they become more faithful.

 

If we are known by the fruits of our beliefs, I am way, way ahead of the game, and those living in faith are far, far behind. Rational belief is precisely what allows for diversity in religious practice, freedom of association--even freedom of expression. In fact, my system is more egalitarian, as even those who do not share my dedication to rationality reap the benefits of it.

[Moai]

Matthew 13:13

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

 

--"The Secret" to those who hear and understand and those who hear and do not…. Is freewill;

 

by choice... men choose Not to hear, see or understand.

Its no secret at all.

 

But I don't have free will. God is omniscient, and therefore knows everything. If god knows everything, he knows whether or not I am going to accept Jesus in the future. Free will and omniscience are mutually exclusive.

[Love Hurts]

Yeah that is where we are both different, Good works for me is not in the name of the lord at all, it is because I know it is the right thing to do, and the funny thing is ha ha I never ask for anything in return.

 

I am not asking you to list anything at all LH but what I am saying is you can quote all you want to and believe all you want to but for me taking action is where I will find peace in my heart.

 

And please don't pray for me, just accept me as I am.

 

Heaven is more valued than our good works…

their was a higher price paid for sin;

Higher than the good works of your sweat and effort.

Your only human and so am I.

 

Who are we to work our way to Heaven?

If I agreed with you… we would be two fools calling Christ a suicidal lunatic.

 

Do you see? Our good works alone would mean Christ died in vain; if we were capable of working our way through" for the wages of sin is death".

 

The Good Works program... does not work with Christ.

[Love Hurts]

But I don't have free will. God is omniscient, and therefore knows everything. If god knows everything, he knows whether or not I am going to accept Jesus in the future. Free will and omniscience are mutually exclusive.

 

You have free will…

We respect God knows all as in omnipresence and foreknowledge.

Yes God knows the beginning from the end. He already knows what path you will choose in life before you do. He watches He is not a puppeteer.

 

If God did not give us free will; we would all worship Jesus … wouldn’t we?

He would have made us to honor and worship Him … all of us.

Obviously freewill is our choice to decide. He does not push, He offers...

 

God Bless*

[Moai]

You have free will…

We respect God knows all as in omnipresence and foreknowledge.

Yes God knows the beginning from the end. He already knows what path you will choose in life before you do. He watches He is not a puppeteer.

 

If God did not give us free will; we would all worship Jesus … wouldn’t we?

He would have made us to honor and worship Him … all of us.

Obviously freewill is our choice to decide. He does not push, He offers...

 

God Bless*

 

If he knows what path I will choose, I do not have free will. What I have, at best, is the illusion of it. He created everything, he knew that I would live at this time and what my decisions are going to be before I make them. What you describe is not free will at all.

 

He does not push, but offers--knowing the whole time whether I will accept it or not.

 

What this means, by your own admission, is that it is possible that I was created specifically to go to Hell, and there is nothing I can do about it.

 

And while the concept of free will is an open question whether Christianity is true or not, it does not follow that if we didn't have free will we would worship Jesus. That presupposes that Jesus is the only option, and that Jesus is, in fact, god--which has not been demonstrated at all. Islam is the fastest growing religion on the planet. How can this be, if belief in Jesus is so self-evident, and those who seek god will find him?

 

All those converting to Islam are going to hell, too. God knows this before it happens. Why does he keep the charade going if this is the case? You admit it above yourself. God knows which way I will go, but sits back and watches.

[Love Hurts]

If he knows what path I will choose, I do not have free will. What I have, at best, is the illusion of it. He created everything, he knew that I would live at this time and what my decisions are going to be before I make them. What you describe is not free will at all.

 

He does not push, but offers--knowing the whole time whether I will accept it or not.

 

What this means, by your own admission, is that it is possible that I was created specifically to go to Hell, and there is nothing I can do about it.

 

And while the concept of free will is an open question whether Christianity is true or not, it does not follow that if we didn't have free will we would worship Jesus. That presupposes that Jesus is the only option, and that Jesus is, in fact, god--which has not been demonstrated at all. Islam is the fastest growing religion on the planet. How can this be, if belief in Jesus is so self-evident, and those who seek god will find him?

 

All those converting to Islam are going to hell, too. God knows this before it happens. Why does he keep the charade going if this is the case? You admit it above yourself. God knows which way I will go, but sits back and watches.

 

Dear God Moai don't think like that. God did not create this one for hell and this one for heaven. No... He loves us all. He created man for Heaven.

Its that man has freewill and takes himself where he so chooses.

God foreknew man would sin and came to die on the cross for us, that we through Him can be saved.

 

We have a choice to come to Him. Freewill is as in your sitting in the drivers seat, starting up the auto and driving yourself to a destination of your desire.

 

We do not sit in the passenger seat and wait for God.

He watches over and we drive. We have to take responsibility for what we say and do in our lives. We can hear of all the gods and of Jesus we decide what is true and what is not.

 

Its up to us…God cares and loves us.

God wants to be more in our lives; He wants us to ask of Him.

 

John 14:13

And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

 

[unless we ask according to our lusts of the flesh.]

 

 

He waits on us to come to Him.

 

God Bless*

[Admiral Thrawn]

Humm....well, I think I can relate somewhat to the story, I remember that when I was in my youth, about 17-18, I had a very strong hunger for the things of God and wanted to know more about Jesus and in building my life up. LIke you I received Jesus into my heart and life. However, at some point in University I started getting lethargic about spiritual things. One of the biggest breaking point was a decision to go in the Stock Market and invest about $ 12 000 in stocks (using credit card money) and I lost all the money. I was working in commercial Real-Estate with my dad, and every single deal fell apart due to bad luck and I made no money in four years while my credit rating was shot, and I didn't even qualify to continue furthering my education with a further student loan. We were all praying during that time and nothing happened.

 

Other circumstances that have been a challenge to my faith is sexual temptations - where I get rejected by a girl I have liminerance on to find out she's sleeping with another guy, etc... where I feel that I may never get married with all the rotten luck that I'm experiencing with women - and I may have gone on adultfriendfinder and justified all sorts of porn/masturbation sin on that premise undermining my testimony in the process with secret vices or idolatrous mental constructs.

 

So, in a sence of the term there is some challenges there as well - but all in all, the real reality is, we break certain laws, we are not totally obedient and trusting of God then wierd things creep into our lives.

 

However, I think that God delays the answer to prayer, that while we could get caught up on the temporary, mundane and superficial details of life, He will ALWAYS answer the right prayer at the RIGHT TIME. So, sometimes it's a manner of timing, or seeing to extend unfavourable circumstances for character development.

 

Can any Christian say that they have a perfectly rosy and orderly life? No.

I think there will always be challenges, either on the morality side, or on the self-righteous legalistic side, or perhaps on the presumptious side but the point is God is faithful and will never fail - and our minds and hearts are finite compared to His infinite mind and omnipotence.

 

There is no moral break. I dont think we have a right to challenge or question our faith in the Christian God, because Jesus is the only and absolute light of this world. There is only darkness. It's like you are in the room and there is only one right door that will lead you out, while all other doors will just lead you back to the same room.

 

What keeps me in this faith is there really is no other light in this world.

Buddah is DEAD. Mohammed the prophet is DEAD. All religious leaders around are DEAD. Their bodies are DEAD, DEAD, DEAD DEAD.

 

All religions are the same legalistic rut going nowhere, while Christianity is God reaching humanity by grace where you dont need works, etc.....

 

Jesus is ALIVE. Millions of Christians would never have been martyred on a dead savior, but one who is ALIVE.

 

So, I say to myself and other Christians, do not give up hope, for we serve a risen saviour, and unanswered prayer is really delayed answered prayer - maybe God knows the best timing to answer a prayer, or may be testing us as well to help grow our faith.

[Moai]

Dear God Moai don't think like that. God did not create this one for hell and this one for heaven. No... He loves us all. He created man for Heaven.

Its that man has freewill and takes himself where he so chooses.

God foreknew man would sin and came to die on the cross for us, that we through Him can be saved.

 

So God knew that Adam would eat of the Forbidden Fruit, but not only punishes him anyway, put the tree within proximity so it would definitely happen. Further, because of this transgression all men are cursed.

 

We have a choice to come to Him. Freewill is as in your sitting in the drivers seat, starting up the auto and driving yourself to a destination of your desire.

 

I understand what free will means, but by your own admission nobody has it. If God knows everything, then he already knows what I will choose--it is as if it has already happened. If that is the case (which you admit it is), then any choice I make is predetermined.

 

We do not sit in the passenger seat and wait for God.

He watches over and we drive. We have to take responsibility for what we say and do in our lives. We can hear of all the gods and of Jesus we decide what is true and what is not.

 

Its up to us…God cares and loves us.

God wants to be more in our lives; He wants us to ask of Him.

 

John 14:13

And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

 

[unless we ask according to our lusts of the flesh.]

 

 

He waits on us to come to Him.

 

God Bless*

 

Ask yourself why virtually nothing you ask for in God's name happens. Get together with your church and pray for the end of starvation. Let me know what happens.

 

I do have a question for you: Why don't Jews accept Jesus? The Jews who were alive at the time and saw Jesus first hand and all of his miracles denied Jesus' messianic nature. Why is that? How could that happen? How could the most learned Hebrew scholars on the planet (more so even today, probably) so easily dismiss Jesus? Do they interpret their own scripture incorrectly?

[Moai]

Humm....well, I think I can relate somewhat to the story, I remember that when I was in my youth, about 17-18, I had a very strong hunger for the things of God and wanted to know more about Jesus and in building my life up. LIke you I received Jesus into my heart and life. However, at some point in University I started getting lethargic about spiritual things. One of the biggest breaking point was a decision to go in the Stock Market and invest about $ 12 000 in stocks (using credit card money) and I lost all the money. I was working in commercial Real-Estate with my dad, and every single deal fell apart due to bad luck and I made no money in four years while my credit rating was shot, and I didn't even qualify to continue furthering my education with a further student loan. We were all praying during that time and nothing happened.

 

Thrawn! Long time no see! I hope that you and your family are well.

 

Why do you think it is that God did not answer your prayers? In Matthew 7:7, Jesus says, "Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!"

 

Later, in Matthew 17:20, Jesus says, "For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you."

 

Mark 11:24 says, "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."

 

In John 14:12-14, we read, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it."

 

Clearly, God says that if you are a believer, He will answer your prayers. But He didn't answer yours (He doesn't answer anyone else's either, so don't feel bad.)

 

Other circumstances that have been a challenge to my faith is sexual temptations - where I get rejected by a girl I have liminerance on to find out she's sleeping with another guy, etc... where I feel that I may never get married with all the rotten luck that I'm experiencing with women - and I may have gone on adultfriendfinder and justified all sorts of porn/masturbation sin on that premise undermining my testimony in the process with secret vices or idolatrous mental constructs.

The need for sex is a natural human emotion, and there is nothing wrong with finding ways to release it--provided all involved are consenting. Since I would imagine that you think sex without marriage is wrong, what you did was perfectly understandable under the circumstances.

 

So, in a sence of the term there is some challenges there as well - but all in all, the real reality is, we break certain laws, we are not totally obedient and trusting of God then wierd things creep into our lives.

 

But even Christians aren't perfect and continue to sin. It is impossible not to, right?

 

However, I think that God delays the answer to prayer, that while we could get caught up on the temporary, mundane and superficial details of life, He will ALWAYS answer the right prayer at the RIGHT TIME. So, sometimes it's a manner of timing, or seeing to extend unfavourable circumstances for character development.

You realize that there is no scripture to support this idea, right?

 

Can any Christian say that they have a perfectly rosy and orderly life? No.

I think there will always be challenges, either on the morality side, or on the self-righteous legalistic side, or perhaps on the presumptious side but the point is God is faithful and will never fail - and our minds and hearts are finite compared to His infinite mind and omnipotence.

 

But clearly God did fail you, when He did not come to your financial aid when you asked--which He promised that He would.

 

There is no moral break. I dont think we have a right to challenge or question our faith in the Christian God, because Jesus is the only and absolute light of this world. There is only darkness. It's like you are in the room and there is only one right door that will lead you out, while all other doors will just lead you back to the same room.

Why did Jesus appear to Paul, then? Why was Paul allowed to challenge God, but not you, or me, or anyone else?

 

What keeps me in this faith is there really is no other light in this world.

Buddah is DEAD. Mohammed the prophet is DEAD. All religious leaders around are DEAD. Their bodies are DEAD, DEAD, DEAD DEAD.

 

Nobody suggests that Buddha was god, so of course he died. According to Muslims, Muhammad was taken up to Heaven without dying, so he is still alive--there is just as much evidence for that as there is the Resurrection.

 

All religions are the same legalistic rut going nowhere, while Christianity is God reaching humanity by grace where you dont need works, etc.....

The uniqueness of this doctrine is not indicative of its truth, and creates more problems than it solves.

 

Jesus is ALIVE. Millions of Christians would never have been martyred on a dead savior, but one who is ALIVE.

 

Why not? You realize millions of Jews have died because they will not renounce their faith in the god of Abraham. Many, many more than the number of Christians who have died.

 

So, I say to myself and other Christians, do not give up hope, for we serve a risen saviour, and unanswered prayer is really delayed answered prayer - maybe God knows the best timing to answer a prayer, or may be testing us as well to help grow our faith.

 

Scripture says the opposite.

[dropdeadlegs]

I love this thread. Keep the debates coming on. I'm listening, I'm thinking, and I'm as far from decision as I've ever been. Still, I enjoy the conversation.

[lonelybird]

I do have a question for you: Why don't Jews accept Jesus? The Jews who were alive at the time and saw Jesus first hand and all of his miracles denied Jesus' messianic nature. Why is that? How could that happen? How could the most learned Hebrew scholars on the planet (more so even today, probably) so easily dismiss Jesus? Do they interpret their own scripture incorrectly?

So you well know about Bible. Do you remember the food manna that God sent from Heaven to Israelites in the desert? When Mose lead Israelites leave Egypt, they had no food in the desert. Then they complained. Lord heard them complaining, then told Mose that He will send bread from Heaven to people. When actually the Lord sent the bread, Israelites didn't realize the thing they saw are bread from Heaven. The same thing go for Jews. They don't realize that Jesus is the "coming king", bread from Heaven. They expected their Messiah are someone like king David, they didn't expect their Messiah are someone who was despised and crucified by people at that time. Old Testament even go details decribed the suffer of Jesus. I guess if Jews accept Jesus, they have to put their pride aside. This is so obvious to me that God love humble heart, so this is God's amazing plan. People must become humble enough to accept Jesus into their heart.

[lonelybird]

Clearly, God says that if you are a believer, He will answer your prayers. But He didn't answer yours (He doesn't answer anyone else's either, so don't feel bad.)

How come God always answers mine? It is amazing that see things move in a supernatural way, yay, Praise God!

 

There are several kinds of prayers.

Doubt will block your prayers. The moment you pray, you BELIEVE you received it. It takes strong faith. Whenever you doubt, your prayers go in vain.

Mark 11:24 says, "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."

 

Delayed answered prayers. Some answered prayers arrive later than you expected. Sometimes we give up quickly before the answered prayers arrive. It takes patience.

 

Disobedience will block prayers and blessings.

 

Your prayers are against God's will. God has better plan for you than yourself, or God is training you for something. It takes TRUST on God totally.

 

The need for sex is a natural human emotion, and there is nothing wrong with finding ways to release it--provided all involved are consenting. Since I would imagine that you think sex without marriage is wrong, what you did was perfectly understandable under the circumstances

Yes, sexual desire is a natural thing, belongs to our flesh. Usually we don't expecially feed it (like watch porn). The more we feed it, the more we fall deep in it, the more we are controlled by it, sexual desire is like an abyss, there is no way out. BUT if we love someone and in a commited relationship, sex become a expression of love. Also I don't think you can oppress it, but can exchange with something else. I found the more read words of Lord, the more I get a clear head. YES, don't feed the flesh desires. and be honest to Lord, and confess them to HIm. He will help you. If you don't ask Lord for help, He knows anyway:o not try to scare you

[Moai]

So you well know about Bible. Do you remember the food manna that God sent from Heaven to Israelites in the desert? When Mose lead Israelites leave Egypt, they had no food in the desert. Then they complained. Lord heard them complaining, then told Mose that He will send bread from Heaven to people. When actually the Lord sent the bread, Israelites didn't realize the thing they saw are bread from Heaven. The same thing go for Jews. They don't realize that Jesus is the "coming king", bread from Heaven. They expected their Messiah are someone like king David, they didn't expect their Messiah are someone who was despised and crucified by people at that time. Old Testament even go details decribed the suffer of Jesus. I guess if Jews accept Jesus, they have to put their pride aside. This is so obvious to me that God love humble heart, so this is God's amazing plan. People must become humble enough to accept Jesus into their heart.

 

The Torah--the Old Testament for Christians--specifically says that he will be a human with no supernatural attributes at all. Also, the Messiah will unify the world and everyone will follow Mosaic Law and there will be world peace. All of the Jews will be called home to Israel. None of these things have happened. He must also be a descendant of the tribe of Judah, which Jesus is not. When the Messiah comes, the Temple will be restored (there is no Temple in Jerusalem, even now.)

 

The fact is that Jews understand Messianic prophecies in the Old Testament better than anyone, and they do not think Jesus was the Messiah. The Jews who were alive at the time, and met and talked with Jesus did not accept him as such, since he did not fit the criteria the Old Testament prophets clearly laid out. The Torah is God's contract with man, and if someone comes along and changes it, either God was lyig when He made the covenant, or He changed His mind, whic He explicitly says He never does.

 

Moreover, Jews do not believe that God can be made flesh, and so in essence to worship Jesus you are worshiping a man, which is idolatry.

 

If you do even a casual web search on Judaism and its responses to Jesus, you will see that they have Scripture on their side, with regards to Jesus' divinity. It seems to me that the experts on the Old Testament would know best about who is the Messiah and who isn't. I would think that if you are basing an entire religion on theirs, their opinion would have some merit.

[Moai]

How come God always answers mine? It is amazing that see things move in a supernatural way, yay, Praise God!

 

Really? Can you give me an example?

 

There are several kinds of prayers.

Doubt will block your prayers. The moment you pray, you BELIEVE you received it. It takes strong faith. Whenever you doubt, your prayers go in vain.

Mark 11:24 says, "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."

 

Oh, I see, so if your prayer isn't answered, it is your fault.

 

Delayed answered prayers. Some answered prayers arrive later than you expected. Sometimes we give up quickly before the answered prayers arrive. It takes patience.

 

Disobedience will block prayers and blessings.

 

And this is written where, exactly?

 

Your prayers are against God's will. God has better plan for you than yourself, or God is training you for something. It takes TRUST on God totally.

 

No scriptural basis for this. Jesus says specifically that if you ask for something in his name, it will be granted to you. There is no mention of the condition of it being God's will or not. If prayers cannot go against god's will, why pray at all, since he is doing his will all the time anyway?

 

 

Yes, sexual desire is a natural thing, belongs to our flesh. Usually we don't expecially feed it (like watch porn). The more we feed it, the more we fall deep in it, the more we are controlled by it, sexual desire is like an abyss, there is no way out. BUT if we love someone and in a commited relationship, sex become a expression of love. Also I don't think you can oppress it, but can exchange with something else. I found the more read words of Lord, the more I get a clear head. YES, don't feed the flesh desires. and be honest to Lord, and confess them to HIm. He will help you. If you don't ask Lord for help, He knows anyway:o not try to scare you

 

Well, I personally am not hung up about sexuality at all, so I don't feel the need to pray about it. I don't feel controlled by it, or anything like that. And of course, the Lord knows everything I have done and will do--that is if he is omniscient.

 

I don't believe in god, so I have nothing to be scared of. The idea that there is an invisible, omniscient, omnipotent super being (who also happens to be everywhere, all the time) watching me and is concerned about what I do when I am naked in my room (alone or with someone else) and is also MOST concerned with what I think is just plain silly. That idea doesn't even jibe with the religion it grew out of, let alone stand on its own merits.

 

But that's just my opinion.

[lonelybird]

Really? Can you give me an example?

 

 

 

Oh, I see, so if your prayer isn't answered, it is your fault.

 

 

 

And this is written where, exactly?

 

 

 

No scriptural basis for this. Jesus says specifically that if you ask for something in his name, it will be granted to you. There is no mention of the condition of it being God's will or not. If prayers cannot go against god's will, why pray at all, since he is doing his will all the time anyway?

 

 

 

 

Well, I personally am not hung up about sexuality at all, so I don't feel the need to pray about it. I don't feel controlled by it, or anything like that. And of course, the Lord knows everything I have done and will do--that is if he is omniscient.

 

I don't believe in god, so I have nothing to be scared of. The idea that there is an invisible, omniscient, omnipotent super being (who also happens to be everywhere, all the time) watching me and is concerned about what I do when I am naked in my room (alone or with someone else) and is also MOST concerned with what I think is just plain silly. That idea doesn't even jibe with the religion it grew out of, let alone stand on its own merits.

 

But that's just my opinion.

Yes, we strongly believe there is a living God. BECAUSE what Bible said and Jesus said and Holy Spirit say SAME thing. Holy Spirit is in us, it is personal experience, so we know who Holy Spirit is, what Holy Spirit teach us. That's why our Lord Jesus want us to tell other people. If Jesus don't love you, then why He command us to tell with patience? If you use your head rather than heart or soul, then probably you will not get an answer. Can a heart debate with head? Let me ask you a question. Do you want to live your rest life with reasoning (cold) or LOVE (warm)? why do you fear to give up your reasoning? In love there is no fear. Stay in Jesus's love is totally safe and secure. Please ask your own heart rather than mind

[lonelybird]

I don't believe in god, so I have nothing to be scared of. The idea that there is an invisible, omniscient, omnipotent super being (who also happens to be everywhere, all the time) watching me and is concerned about what I do when I am naked in my room (alone or with someone else) and is also MOST concerned with what I think is just plain silly. That idea doesn't even jibe with the religion it grew out of, let alone stand on its own merits.

 

But that's just my opinion.

Do you recall your teenager experience, the great joy you had when you accepted Jesus as your Lord? Too often Along with our grown-up, and education, we lost the joy that a child could have. we harden our heart, no longer can see the world through a child's eyes, won't that be wonderful if we both have education and a child's heart?

Matthew 18: So Jesus called a child to come and stand in front of them,

18:3 (*)and said, "I assure you that unless you change and become like children, you will never enter the Kingdom of heaven.

18:4 The greatest in the Kingdom of heaven is the one who humbles himself and becomes like this child.

[sunshinegirl]

If you use your head rather than heart or soul, then probably you will not get an answer. Can a heart debate with head? Let me ask you a question. Do you want to live your rest life with reasoning (cold) or LOVE (warm)? why do you fear to give up your reasoning? In love there is no fear. Stay in Jesus's love is totally safe and secure. Please ask your own heart rather than mind

 

Ehhh. I've said before and I'll say again, head and heart need to be engaged for faith to be really vibrant. My heart isn't in it right now. (And I can't make my heart be in it.)

 

That said, I can still defend some tenets of the faith with the best of 'em. Someone was arguing the omniscience / free will thing, saying that because God knows in advance what we will do/choose, that means we don't have free will.

 

There's a real distinction to be made between foreknowledge of what someone will do, and removing that person's choice to do that thing. Ever seen that show Intervention on A&E? It follows the stories of people whose addictions (drugs, food, cutting, etc) are so bad that their loved ones stage an intervention to get them help. To me it's a good example of the difference between foreknowledge and free will: the family members KNOW that the next day, because their kid/sibling/SO is an addict, they are going to buy more methamphetamine (for example). So they have foreknowledge of what will occur. So does that foreknowledge mean that the kid/sibling/SO no longer has free will?

 

Obviously not. They are still free to choose their self-destructive ways; all their family members can do is stand by and grieve and wish they would make a different choice. The interventions that they stage on the show invite the addict to choose to help themselves; but even then nobody can force that person to enter rehab.

 

So that's kind of how I think about the free will/omniscience thing with God. It doesn't answer questions of why God stands back and lets us destroy our lives, and other peoples' lives all in the name of free will (I would think free will should have some divine limits - like God should step in when genocides are about to occur; would be much more effective than the UN!). It doesn't answer for me questions of why some/many people may never know or choose God (and because of that I may be moving toward a universal salvation kind of view). Still, my head can intellectually understand (and defend!) theological concepts even if my heart doesn't necessarily believe them anymore.