Want to leave but not sure it's the right thing

[Tuesmorn]

I've been married for 18 years, and we have a 10-year-old daughter. My H is a good man and a good father, but I just don't have the feelings for him anymore that I used to have, and I've been seriously considering leaving. The problem is, I'm worried about how it would affect our child, so since the situation isn't *horrible*, I keep staying and not leaving, and it's driving me nuts. Is it normal to be this wishy-washy?

 

So to clarify my feelings, I'm not only not in love with him anymore, but I find myself avoiding being around him, and avoiding touching him unless I have to. I feel absolutely no physical attraction for him anymore, almost a repulsion, actually, and only have sex with him because it keeps him happy and "keeps the peace." For the most part we get along okay, but every once in a while things boil over and we fight - generally about my lack of affection for him, or about how our very different parenting styles (I'm more permissive, he's more authoritarian). I'm really not very happy at all in the marriage, although I used to be - there is SO much I could go into but won't, just due to space and time... but for one thing, I feel like he disapproves of everything I do, and almost feel like he's trying to act like a father to a wayward teenager. It's not that overt, but that's the feeling I get. Like, he wants me to act "old" and not "young" - he's as much as said so (I come across as much younger than my 44 years, but I'm also very responsible, always pay my bills, have great credit, take care of the house, do most of the child-rearing, etc.) But then when I tell him I'm feeling stifled and repressed, he really does try to back off and act a bit better towards me. Neither one of us is perfect, of course. He claims that I've shredded his self-esteem since we've been together, and that I'm to blame for his depression (he had a horrible childhood, and I don't think he's ever gotten over that). I'm not one to just accept blame that may be misplaced, so I flip-flop between feeling bad about how I may have treated him (did I really act that bad? Did I really cut him down in front our friends?) and feeling resentful that he's placing all this blame on my shoulders, when his childhood may be at the root of his depression.

 

At any rate, our marriage just hasn't been quite the same for the last 5 years. And over the last year and a half, I've pretty much decided to leave him. Last fall I told him that I really wasn't in love with him anymore. After that, he kept asking me "do you love me?" in a playful-but-not-quite sort of way... and I hate to lie and say yes! So I would just kind of avoid his questions. Ick. Then we fought over New Year's, and I told him (again) about how my feelings have waned, and while I still care about him, I don't feel like I'm *in* love with him. Well, he seems convinced that I can just "decide" to be in love with him again, but I really don't believe that. I mean, I can try to control my reactions to him, and get along, and not fight, but I can't just decide to love him again. And honestly, I don't *want* to. Maybe that's the key.

 

Right now, I just flat want out. I want my own life, answering just to myself and my child (assuming I wind up with custody). I feel a LOT of resentment towards him because I like to travel to visit friends and participate in my hobbies, and he's a homebody - he hates to travel, and doesn't want to go with me anywhere, and isn't interested in the least in my hobbies (which is cool), yet he doesn't like it when I go off without him. So I find myself passing up opportunities to go dance, to go to workshops, or just to go visit friends, to keep him happy. And when I do stay home? He goes to the shooting range, or works out in his shop, or sits on his computer chatting with friends. So I'm not overly motivated to stay home with him (wow, the more I write this the more I realize how resentful and p-off I am). Anyway... Last year I had pretty much made up my mind to leave, but didn't due to financial troubles, so I stayed and paid off some of my debts and tried to maintain a peaceful relationship in the meantime. Now I'm financially able to leave, but I'm having doubts - mostly because I don't want to hurt our daughter. When he and I fight, I find it easy to think about renting a place and moving out. But when we're getting along (mostly avoiding each other), I feel guilty and selfish when I think about leaving. Argh. If he were an abusive ***hole it'd be SO much easier! But he's not... he's really a good person overall, I think we've just grown apart and our lifestyles and attitudes are so very very different. If it were just me and him in the equation, I'd leave in a heartbeat. But I have to consider our child. And then my mind starts tossing in all sorts of other things, too, like, how will our respective families handle it, will he be able to make it on his own, how badly will this hurt him, what about our pets (silly), if I leave I won't be able to afford for our daughter to take the horse-back riding lessons she so desperately wants, nor will I be able to travel like I do now, due to both time and money issues. On the money side - I'm in school, and graduating this fall, and hopefully will be able to land a much better-paying job than the one I have now, so I'm thinking that my financial worries will only be for a couple of years or so. And I don't think it's right to stay in an unhappy relationship *just* because of money.

 

But I go back and forth so much - leave or stay? Is sparing our child the pain of a divorce worth me repressing my own feelings (which I'm apparently very good at) and staying with a man I don't care for, and sometimes, despise? I know I'm the only one who can make this decision... My friends all encourage me to get out, and maybe I should listen. BTW, I'm not usually this indecisive! I'm very much a doer, an active person who takes matters into my own hands. I generally make firm decisions, quickly, and act on them, and feel very confident about everything. Except now. In this ONE aspect (granted, a huge aspect) of my life, I feel very un-confident, like my ability to make decisions has just been whittled away by either him or by circumstances, and my normally high self-esteem and self-confidence have just been ground down to nothing. I spent about 8 months last year in a fairly deep depressive state (because of the situation), and I still find myself slipping into depression at the drop of a hat (my normal state is cheery, happy, and optimistic, and has been my entire life until last year), which certainly doesn't help my outlook on things. I don't know WHY I can't just make a decision and then act on it. Stay or go. S**t or get off the pot. Cut the cord. Maybe I'm hoping the situation will get so unpleasant that I'm *forced* to leave? Maybe I'm hoping he'll make the decision for me if I keep acting the way I am towards him? Either way sounds like an emotional cop-out to me, something I'm not too crazy about. But I think that's what I'm doing. And then when I think about how unhappy I am, I almost feel like I'm trying to justify leaving, trying to rationalize it, and I feel bad about that, so then I try to rationalize staying. And I can find all sorts of advice on the internet about how staying in an unhappy marriage, as long as there's no alcoholism or abuse, is better for the kids than divorce. Ugh. I guess maybe I'm waffling because it IS a hard decision, and if I leave there WILL be repercussions, and he and the child WILL be hurt... and I just hate to be the one to bring all that down upon us. I want so badly to leave, to have my own space (with the child), to have my freedom (that sounds so dang *selfish* to my ears), to be the person I truly want to be, and be able to pursue my hobbies (dancing, mostly), and maybe even take my dancing to a professional level, rather than being made to feel guilty about it. To be able to hang my hammock inside the living room if I want; to be able to put my tacky posters on the walls; to be able to go visit friends on a whim who live several hours away; just to be single and not have a man in my life for quite some time.

 

Thanks for reading. Just writing this has helped clear my head some. Maybe I'll grow a spine (heh) and actually *do* something soon.

 

EDIT - I just wanted to add something here... I worry about the hurt I would cause by leaving, but I also worry about the hurt I am currently causing my H by staying when I clearly have no love for him anymore. It seems like, even though he still loves me, that it'll be better for him if I just go ahead and end this so he can get on with his healing, and with his life, and hopefully find himself a woman who is more compatible for him (I can't see him being alone very long). Also, in my thoughts on staying, I find myself thinking, "I really don't *mind* being married to him, much.") Then I think about that - don't mind? Ouch. I know if I were married to someone who felt that way about me, I'd be outta there. I wonder how valid all this is - or am I just rationalizing and justifying my desire to leave?

[whichwayisup]

Talk to your husband and go to marriage counselling. Might as well try it one last time, see if he is willing to change, as well as you. Maybe together you two can capture that passion again you once felt for him.

 

You have a history together, a child together, family and friends, a life built. I would hate to see you throw it all away without both of you giving it your best.

 

Don't lie to him, be honest.

 

It isn't easy to just start over, so I doubt he's thinking of finding someone else he can be happy with.

 

Hope this helps.

[MoonGirl]

Tuesmorn,

 

Since your husband seems like a decent guy and a good father, perhaps you should try some marriage-building before you decide to throw in the towel. Check out www.marriagebuilders.com. There is a ton of helpful advice on the site. It IS possible to rekindle love if both you and your husband are willing to work on things TOGETHER. I have some good friends who went through what you're going through right now. They were separated for 3-4 months, went to marriage counseling, individual therapy, and made a real serious point to rebuild their marriage. After 6 months, they entered another honey-moon phase , which their kids found rather disturbing! :D

 

It isn't easy starting over...I'm doing that right now. I only wish I had a husband like yours - one who you describe as a good man and a good father.

[ilmw]

If I had really known my wife was unhappy... and wanted out of our marriage... I would have gone to MC... and done what ever it took to try and save our marriage..

 

She did not out and say this... she was kinda like you... and did not want to hurt anyone.

 

Tell him... try and get him into... MC... try IC for yourself...

 

Read books on relationships... try Divorce Busting.... sounds like a good one for you... (i have read it twice ) some of your complaints... concerns could be answered in its pages.

 

Do everything you can to save your marriage... so if it does not work out... you know in your heart... you gave it your all.

 

It will be worth it in the end... no matter what happens

 

ilmw

[whichwayisup]

I would hope though that if you DO divorce, you would keep things friendly with your husband because of your daughter. And, have joint custody. Don't you think it is abit unfair to take your daughter away from him, just because you're unhappy in the marriage? Please, think of what's best for your daughter too...And yes, I'm sure it will be hard to share her, and not have her around you 24/7, but don't you think your husband would miss her just as much? That's why joint custody is so important....And, you have even said he's a good father.

[quankanne]

you are not alone here, TM – every longterm relationship goes through its stages, the trick is to get the tools you need to see it through those times. Someone mentioned marriagebuilders, another person suggested good reading material and yet another, counselling. All are great recommendations, because those things help equip you with the tools you need to strengthen your marriage.

 

my husband and I went through a Marriage Encounter weekend offered through my church, and boy what a difference that made! The weekend emphasizes building communication skills and helps couples rediscover what they initially found appealing or lovable about one another. DH dragged his feet the first time I mentioned it (we'd been married 4-5 years and I thouight it sounded neat, but he thought it meant I felt he was a "bad" husband), but thank God he offered to go a couple of years later when I told him a priest friend of mine was leading a retreat. By that point, I was beginning to see behind the joke about 7-year itch, about not being happy with how marriage was going, and several other things. Mind you, he wasn't a "bad" husband, but we didn't know how to communicate effectively. If you ask him now, he'll tell you it's the best thing we ever did for our marriage because we finally discovered what we were about and why we wanted to be married ... STAY married to each other. That's not to say we don't have the usual catfights over finances or his attitude or some of my lesser-liked behavior, but the difference is that we know those things can be resolved because we know marriage is much more than those gripey moments. Not trying to get on a soapbox here, but offer hope to someone who sounds like she is feeling a lot like I was before our ME weekend.

 

you might also want to ask your doctor about the depression (even if it's only state of funk or bad blues) – you'd be amazed how differently you look at things when your blood chemistry isn't out of whack. Look at this site for reference of how excessive or a lack of blood chemicals can affect a person: http://www.mental-health-matters.com/articles/article.php?artID=160

 

you sound like you don't want to make any final decisions without knowing you've exhausted all avenues, and while it might be frustrating, it's good to know that you still have some fight left in you.

 

good luck, and keep us posted – or keep asking questions, okay?

 

q

[Tuesmorn]

Yes, absolutely, if I leave, I will aim for joint custody. I would want to keep things as friendly as possible, and have her see him as often as possible, even outside of "designated" visitation. I think it's very important for a child to have a good relationship with both parents, and I would never want to cut her off from her daddy. Just because he and I don't get along, is no reason to damage their relationship. I'm hoping I can keep living in the same town even after I get my degree and a new job, so that they'll be closer together.

[quankanne]

*sigh* if only all parents would be that considerate of their children – so many go the other route to hurt their former spouses without realizing how badly it destroys a child to be the pawn in a relationship.

 

you're a good mom, TM

[mandy81marie]

I know you don't want to hurt your daughter by leaving your husband but think of the effect of you avoiding your husband will have on your daughter. (children are more perceptive than we think) You don't want her to think that this is how marriage should be do you? When the day comes and she is married you wouldn't want her to go through what you are going through.

[PWSX3]

I'm not sure that you want to leave, just my thoughts... That is why you aren't sure what you want. It is a very hard choice and I'm glad to see you are really looking at your options or at least asking so you will have a better idea of what would happen either way.

 

O.K. been there doing that as we speak. If you haven't read my post my W moved out 6 months ago & I think if you would ask her she had the same feelings you are having. Wasn't in "love" etc. etc.

 

Now to help you maybe understand part of your H's side. I was also like your H in I didn't think the W could make the correct decisions & I treated her kind of like a dad. The one thing I have learned is "I" didn't know I was treating her that way, I thought I was looking out for her best interest but what I wasn't doing is letting her make her own mistakes & learning from those mistakes.

 

She would want to go see her friends & I would say that is fine, but then I would be mad because she was gone. Doesn't make since but that is how I was thinking. Then like you she would stay home but I would play on the computer & she would read a book so we never did anything while we were home.

A couple good books to read are His Needs, Her Needs, & The 5 Love Laungues. They really helped me understand some of the things I was doing & I didn't even know I was, I thought I was being a good husband.

 

There are 3 parts to a marriage, his time, her time, & our time. You need to go do things with your friends, do those trips "if" you want to but you don't have to rely to always go with & same with him, he has to have his golf, hunting, etc. whatever it is he likes but then there is the time you two do things together & as a family.

 

It sounds like he is a pretty good guy & like I said there is a very good chance that he doesn't even see what he is doing wrong. Like I said if you read those books there is some good stuff that will help you see what you are doing & what he is doing.

 

I was talking to a friend of mine after my W moved out & he said one thing that made me really think. He said; have you tried everything you can to make your marriage work & I thought for a minute and said NO. I could not just say; I have tried everything I could & I guess it just won't work.

 

I do believe you can fall back in love again, it just takes work but no matter what relationship you will be in they all take work. Even if you are on your own it takes work & you have no one there to help.

 

When is the last time you have gone out together & done something fun like a dinner theater, comedy show, etc. You may say that is something my H wouldn't do but maybe that is what he does need to do. Five years ago you wouldn't catch me close to a dinner theater & then we went and saw; I love you, your perfect, now change. That was so funny that I have been to many of them now, sure I pick and choice what kind I see but I go & I have fun.

 

I really feel you need to set down and talk with your H and see if he would be welling to go to counseling. Me & my W had gone 5 years ago but I'm pretty stuburn & didn't really see the things I needed to work on, but now I have & I am still learning.

 

You can't make him read the books but maybe if he saw you reading them he might get interested. After reading your story I know if you get either of those books & start reading them you will say; wow that sounds just like my situation because I did it and mine is a lot like yours.

 

I wish you the best & no matter what you decide to do it will be work. Just like Gunny has said many of times, we never took classes about marriage & if we did they weren't near good or long enough so we try and learn as we go. It's time to go back to class and educate yourself with some reading & you will be surprised at what you learn.

 

P.S. Oh I forgot to tell you, my W the one that said she didn't love me anymore has told me more times in the last week then she has in the last year we have been married & starting this next week we are going to marriage counseling together & I hope to take her to one of those retreat things as well so things can change.

[Gunny376]

"What we have here! Is a failure to communicate, ..............and a lack of respect for the law!"

 

Whopps! Got carried away with the quote from Cool Hand Luke. But, you do have a failure to communicate ~ not just in the here and now, but over the course of everyday, of every week, of every month, of every year of the last eighteen years. Throw in a little complacencey, a little contempt, a little anger, a little bitterness, a spoken word that can never be taken back, for good measure add in some stress from work, at home, declinling intimcy, depression, anxiety ~ and what you've got is a good old fashion marital comma ~ when one day you wake up and you're wondering who is this person in my bed.

 

Perry's right! I'm always harping about our societies lack of preparing folks to get married. In most states the age where you can get married is 16 for Christmas sake! Anyone who's been around the martial track knows that most 26 year old don't have any business getting married, let alone a 16 year old.

 

Which school was it that you took

 

Marriage 101

Martial Communication 102

Cross-Gender Communication 103

Light His Fire 104

Light Her Fire 105

 

How To Light Your Fire When You've Got Kids, the boss in all over your back, you're mortgage is due, the car's in the shop, the washing machine and dryer are broken, the credit card is maxed off, and they're talking about layoff down at work?

 

But, over the course of the last 18 years you went and got yourelf a little O J T about marriage, now didn't ya! You sure as hell have learned that you don't have to be by yourself to be alone, and that you're not quite sure, but you've got some idea that sex is suppose to be something more than "Wham! Bam ~ and Thank You Ma'am" You've learned that there's more to life than sitting around the house watching re-runs on tv land.

 

You've heard about those folks where half of them that get divorced during their first marriage ~ well you know what? For second marriages its about 62 to 80, depending upon which part of the country you're in ~ and its even higher for third marriages. Why? Well, there can be no doubt that some folks are jumping from one marriage to the next in the blink of an eye ~ but the primary reason is because they leave one marriage without learning the first damn thing about being married? Not a clue.

 

Of the half first time marriagess that don't end in divorce ~ a lot of them, if not about 2/3's of them end up where you're at. Martial Comma ~ they're staying together for the kids, the finances, the life-style, what would Aunt Lucy think, what would the negihbors say. All bad reasons to stay married by the way.

 

And, that loving feeling you've lost for the DH? Well most of that is just bio-chemicals running around in the old brain housing group ~ its pretty strong stuff, as strong as cocaine, and just as addiciting. That's why you hear so many people, espcially women say, "I love you, but I'm not in lovee with you anymore!" They're love junkies, and they're out looking for their next fix ~ and you know what ~ that one's going to wear off as well. (Feb 06 edition of National Geographic)

 

The 10 year old DD (Dear Daughter)? In a 20 year study conducted with funding by the California Dept of Human Resources, it was found that children of divorce are more prone to drop out of school, begin sex, drinking alcohol, experiment with drugs, get in trouble with the law, use tobacco, etc than children that don't come from divorce families. The authors of the study were Wallerstein and Blankeship I believe, but the title of their book is "Second Chances" I highly recommend that you read it cover to cover.

 

I also would encourage you to check out Dr. Phil McGraw's website, especially the fourms, and especially one entitled "Dating After 40" You see in high school and college, girls and women have the supply and men have the demand, but as we age, it flips. Why? Well simply because there are more women than men born to begin with, but as we age there are less available men ~ period. Primarly because men in their your do truly stupid things like go off to war and get killed, ride motorcycles and get killed, race cars and get killed, become electrical linemen and work on high voltage powerlines in the middle of a thunderstorm and get killed, become law enforcement officers and get killed, etc (You get the idea ~ women more and more are doing those things ~ but to a lesser degree)

 

Oh you can find a man ~ even a boyfriend, or a husband ~ the problem is finding a good one. One that's not married already, one that's not a serial cheater, one that's not got a woman (or man) on the side. One that's not gay, bisexual, or wants to become a woman, one that's not in prison, been in and out of prison, not a drunk, not on drugs, doesn't get his kicks beating the hell out of women, one that doesn't put fishing, hunting, his hobbies and other interest before you, one that doesn't have an incurable verneral disease, one that capable and willing to committ. One that's doesn't have a sexual addicition, that's not addicted to gambling, or video games, whatever.

 

Good men (and good women) are like good jobs! Oh! There out there alright. Trouble is what few good ones there are ~ then tend to be taken already and the folks that have them have had them for a good long while, and they're planning on keeping them, and you're just about going to have to fight them to get them away from them!

 

Move into an apartment? Yea, right! You've got Bigfoot living above you stomping grapes at all hours of the night, you've got the homeboys crusing by with their "systems" going all hours of the night, if you live in front by the road you've got the ******* that pulls up in front of your bedroom window at o'dark thirty for half an hour with his highbeans shinning through your window. Oh the joy of living next to the dumpseter, when some azzhat decides to take out the garbage. Listening to your neighbors rap music at two-thirty in the morning~!

 

And, I don't care how much you try, how much you decorate, pretty it up, clean it up ~ an apartment can never be a Home!

 

From what you've posted ~ I would say that your best bet would be to not to be a "fool" and get yourself back intoschool. Check out "Divorcebusting" and "Marriagebuilders"

 

Read

 

"The Five Languages of Love"

"Light Her Fire"

"His Needs ~ Her Needs"

"How To Light Your Fire When You Have Kids"

"Rommance 101"

"1001 Ways To Be Romantic"

"1001 More Ways To Be Rommantic"

"DivorceBusting"

"Do I Have To Give Up Being Me, To Be Loved By You"

"Lifemates"

"Living Beautifully Together"

"The Two Minute Lover"

"Courtship After Marriage"

 

Get Ye into IC and MC!

 

You want happiness, fullfillment, more out of and from your marriage? You've got to earn it in this marriage or the next the old fashion way ~

 

YOU'VE GOT TO WORK FOR IT!

 

And get the DH

[Ladyjane14]

I feel very un-confident, like my ability to make decisions has just been whittled away by either him or by circumstances, and my normally high self-esteem and self-confidence have just been ground down to nothing. I spent about 8 months last year in a fairly deep depressive state (because of the situation), and I still find myself slipping into depression at the drop of a hat (my normal state is cheery, happy, and optimistic, and has been my entire life until last year), which certainly doesn't help my outlook on things.

 

This is all more likely to be about you than about your husband. Rule out clinical depression before you make any decisions. You might also see your GYN and check your hormonal balance. You'd do well to heed the advice you've had so far as well, particularly Gunny's. It's not as easy out there as you might like to believe.

 

The emotional intimacy of the marital relationship CAN be recovered. It's hard work, but hey... my husband and I are living proof that it's do-able.

[jmargel]

It seems like everyone is trying to convince her to stay in the marriage but it's apparent that she does not want to. When you don't love the person anymore and don't *want* it to work out then no amount of marriage counseling will help.

 

As for him hurting and your daughter hurting that is the consequence of divorce, however if approached the right way the hurt can be minimized to a certain degree, though it will still be there. You can't expect to walk away after 18 years and pretend like nothing went wrong.

 

Unfortunetly when a lack or bad communication goes unfixed over a long period of time this is what happens. It gets to a point where it is not fixable. Both parties have to contribute into making it work 100% and she is just not into it.

 

I would highly suggest individual counseling, not marriage counseling. If you keep second guessing yourself over this, and over thinking then nothing will be done and you will have had made your decision. It's not fair to your husband as well, he needs to find a woman that will love him for himself.

 

There are no guarantees that once you divorce that the next guy will be your prince. It's a gamble that you have to take. Also staying in a marriage for your daughter is not the right thing to do. It's better to come from a broken home, then to be in one. As she grows up she will sense the distance between you two and learn this as an acceptable behavior and will more than likely be in a relationship similiar to what you are in now.

[Tuesmorn]

Thanks for all the responses! I took some time today and read back over my private journal entries from the last year and a half. My H and I had a really really bad spell last Dec-Jan-Feb, and it continued on into June. We fought a lot, mostly over triggers such as my wanting to visit friends out of town or wanting to go dancing. For a while, I just quit doing everything, simply to avoid the conflict. But we still fought - it felt like I couldn't do anything right. Then I started pushing back - figured if he was going to be mad at me no matter what, I may as well do what I wanted to. I felt trapped and depressed, like I had no freedom to do anything on my own without his approval or permisison, which wasn't readily given. He started IC in April, but then the counselor suggested that I come in too, so I went for about 3 sessions. I didn't particularly like the counselor, so I didn't feel comfortable opening up in front of her, but it did help the communication between my H and myself. We had another blow-out fight in June, and I told him that I really wasn't in love with him anymore, but that I still cared about him as a person. He said he didn't have a life outside of me, that his entire sense of self is wrapped up in me and our relationship. I told him that that was a heavy burden for me, that I didn't feel like I should be solely responsible for his happiness, and that he needed to make an effort to try to find some friends and hobbies of his own, so he wouldn't always feel so resentful and jealous of me. Then a friend of mine kinda had a word with him, and after that he "turned over a new leaf" and started being really really nice, offering to travel with me to go dancing, wanting to hug me all the time, etc. it felt like, and he as much as admitted, that he was just being nice to try to win my affections back, make me fall in love with him again, and keep me in his life. But no amount of "nice" behavior can force me to fall in love with him again! Plus, I really felt (still feel) that he should work on his own life, his own personal issues, and try to make changes for HIM, not for me. Like - oh, I don't know how to explain it - like, I'm still being placed on a pedestal, and as long as I maintain that role of whatever-he-wants them we're fine, but if I step/fall off that pedestal, all heck breaks loose again. Therefore, him being all huggy and nice all of a sudden kinda creeped me out, and wound up making me feel even more trapped. Oh, and *after* I told him I didn't love him anymore, he kept asking "do you love me?" all the time. And wanted to hold me and hug me constantly. Ugh.

 

So - I continued feeling depressed and trapped. I finally came out of my depression around August or Sept. Note - this depression was not, how do you say, clinical? Not chemical. Not brain chemistry going nutso. It was purely situational. I'm normally very happy and positive. Disgustingly cheerful and optimistic. The last time I'd been through a deep depression like this was after having a miscarriage. Due purely to grief. That's what this depression felt like - like I was trapped, in a situation I abhorred, but couldn't leave because I didn't have the financial means. Plus, he had recently had surgery, and was on temporary disability, so it didn't feel right to "kick him when he was down" so I just kept playing nice and stuck around. And here I am. Still playing nice, still not feeling in love with him, still having absolutely no attraction for him, still not wanting to be around him even when we're getting along, which is most of the time, honestly. But are we getting along because I'm *going* along? I still find myself *not* going off to dance weekends, not going to visit friends, not going to Mardi Gras or other things like that, especially spontaneously, because I just don't want to deal with the fighting. Or if not fighting, then quiet resentment and blame.

 

Wow.... sorry, I don't even remember where I was going with this. Oh yeah - no, I don't want to be in this marriage. I don't want to fix it. I want out. I've wanted out for the last year and a half. I'm not in love, I have no physical attraction for him. I avoid him all the time. I never miss him when we're apart. My happiest times are when he's gone out of town. This sucks, it's sad, it bothers the you-know-what out of me to be in this position, because I feel like after 18+ years that I should care more about fixing it. But I really don't. But still I stay. I worry about our child. I'm ONLY staying for her sake. However, she isn't dumb, and last year when we were fighting so much, she even asked if we were getting divorced. She notices that we avoid each other, and that I brush him off all the time (even though I really *try* to be affectionate). She sees all this, and yes, children from broken homes statistically do worse in school, drop out more often... but. I know I will not last much longer in this relationship. At some point, I WILL leave. It's mostly a question of when. Do I do it now? Or do I wait? Which is worse? Child is 10 now - from what I've read, it seems like divorce during the kids' teenage years is sometimes worse, due to the hormonal changes that they're currently going through.

 

And yeah, I look back at our marriage, and I grieve. It's sad that it's not what it used to be. And if I had any shred of love or attraction for him anymore, I'd want to fix it. But I don't think fixing it to satisfy just him, or our families, or society, is a good thing. I've waited a year and a half. I didn't leave out when things first got bad. I've tried to get along with him. I've tried to modify my behavior so that I don't make him so upset. He's tried to modify his own behavior to keep me around. I've tried to be happy. But it's just not working. But still, I apparently have a deep-seated fear of leaving, of making that big step. I'm still trying to figure out why, and how to overcome it and still come out emotionally healthy on the other side, which was actually the point of my initial post. *WHY* am I so reluctant to leave a situation which, while not horrible or abusive, is yet making me very very unhappy and depressed?

 

More later... thanks again...

[Tuesmorn]

Should probably clarify some ... I will *probably* leave. Most likely. Almost assuredly. But I've learned not to say "never" or "always" or "absolutely."

 

Also, I don't think I expressed it very well when I said he was too focused on me. Normally that would be a good thing, right? Having a man devoted to me, focused on me, caring about me. But it feels stifling. I think he's overly dependent, though lord knows I didn't try to make him that way. He's needy and clingy. And I'm NOT the co-dependent type, so I'm not down on all that "come here baby, let mamma take care of you" stuff. Nope. I've always been strong and independent, and that's part of what he says he fell in love with. But now that strong independent streak in me is making him crazy. I sometimes wonder if he's not really in love with me anymore, but just going through the motions like I am. A couple of years ago he told a friend of mine that he didn't love me anymore. He's mildly possessive, he doesn't trust me, he's jealous of my activities and my friends, although he doesn't come right out and say so. And I feel like he blames me for things that really aren't my fault, or even possibly for things that he himself is doing - transference, I think... Last week he called me emotionally abusive, because I didn't want to have sex with him. Note - if I *HAD* had sex with him, it would have been simply to shut him up and keep the peace. Afterwards, because of how he reacted to me (badly), I wished I had just given him some. Now from what I've read, feeling obligated to have sex with a partner in order to keep the peace is a potential sign of living with an emotionally abusive partner. I'm not saying he's abusive (I don't *think* he is), but that he seems to project his own negative qualities upon me. And he tells me, every time we fight, how selfish and thoughtless and uncaring I am. How I think only of myself. When that doesn't make me feel bad enough, he'll occasionally toss in "well, I'm not the only one who thinks this about you!" I have defenses against what he says. But I don't have defenses against what my friends may think about me. I don't think it's true - I don't think that there's a whole bunch of people standing around discussing with my H how awful I am. But whether it's true or not, it's a low blow, in my opinion, and I can't defend myself because the accusation is coming from *him* and not the un-named "them."

 

Yeah... there's a lot under the surface, I guess. I've gotten really good at just repressing my feelings, at going along with things in order to keep the peace. I don't like that. It doesn't feel right, or true. But it makes me doubt myself - if things are smooth right now, why bother leaving? Surely staying is easier? And safer? And better for all concerned, because it's less turmoil, and causes less trauma? And after so many years of hearing how awful and selfish I am, a part of me believes it. So I'm trying to be over-the-top *UN*-selfish, and think about everyone's feelings.

 

I feel like this is an unhealthy relationship. (duh!) I feel so much resentment and unhappiness, and like I really can't trust him emotionally. Even if he does a complete 180, how will I know if he really loves me for me, or just loves the "idea" of us? Or his ideal of me? I just feel like it's gone so far, for so long, that I've crossed that bridge emotionally, and don't really feel like going back. Oh yeah, our relationship has been going downhill for more than just a year and a half - it's just that fall/winter of 05 is really when I started paying attention to it and journaling it. So that's why that comes across as being the starting point, when it really isn't.

 

Hope that clarifies some things...

[stockmos]

So - I continued feeling depressed and trapped. I finally came out of my depression around August or Sept. Note - this depression was not, how do you say, clinical? Not chemical. Not brain chemistry going nutso. It was purely situational. I'm normally very happy and positive. Disgustingly cheerful and optimistic. The last time I'd been through a deep depression like this was after having a miscarriage. Due purely to grief. That's what this depression felt like - like I was trapped, in a situation I abhorred, but couldn't leave because I didn't have the financial means. Plus, he had recently had surgery, and was on temporary disability, so it didn't feel right to "kick him when he was down" so I just kept playing nice and stuck around. And here I am. Still playing nice, still not feeling in love with him, still having absolutely no attraction for him, still not wanting to be around him even when we're getting along, which is most of the time, honestly. But are we getting along because I'm *going* along? I still find myself *not* going off to dance weekends, not going to visit friends, not going to Mardi Gras or other things like that, especially spontaneously, because I just don't want to deal with the fighting. Or if not fighting, then quiet resentment and blame.

 

 

Hi Tuesmorn, it sounds a cliche but I know EXACTLY how you feel, being in an emotionally similar situation myself. I too am exactly the same as you, with no history of any sort of clinical/chemical depression and always full of life. I have recently felt that "situational depression" and it sucks, of course. A very unfamiliar feeling of having a cloud over one's life. I do think this is born out of entering a feeling of grief for the relationship while still in the relationship.

 

I also know that feeling of getting along, while at the same time, thinking "oh good" when she goes away for a while. This happened just today, she talked about going abroad with a friend who is going away on business and I find myself thinking "go on, go away", not in a malcious way, just that it would be nice to be alone instead.

 

I apparently have a deep-seated fear of leaving, of making that big step. I'm still trying to figure out why, and how to overcome it and still come out emotionally healthy on the other side, which was actually the point of my initial post. *WHY* am I so reluctant to leave a situation which, while not horrible or abusive, is yet making me very very unhappy and depressed?

 

More later... thanks again...

 

 

I have been through a lot of counselling for this. The clear point that my counsellor made is that there will ALWAYS be reasons to stay and this is what is stopping you/me. None of them are "silly"; pets or anything else can be a reason.

 

This is why, as my counsellor explained, so many relationships drag on until they basically expire completely. Either that or one partner will try to "force" the issue through an act such as an affair as an "exit strategy" or, I'm sorry to say, and shame on those who do it, even becoming actively unpleasant or downright nasty towards the partner until the situation becomes intolerable and THEY make the break.

 

Do you ever have fantasies about your husband dying, having an affair or announcing that he is leaving you? I don't mean like nice-type fantasies that you want to happen, but just thoughts that come into your head. Of course, he never does.

 

Another thing my therapist pointed out to me is that in the past I have always been the one dumped - I have basically let my girlfriends dump me, and I could see it coming. Now I am with someone who seemingly will stay come hell or high water, so this is entirely new territory for me.

 

And finally, another important consideration is that if you come from a family where unbroken relationships with your parents and siblings are the norm, you may find it a lot harder to break away from a pattern of behaviour you have been brought up to to see as normal - that is, sticking with a realtionship come what may.

[MoonGirl]

Tuesmorn,

 

While our situations are a bit different (my husband was abusive), I can certainly understand your inability to leave even though you want to. Like you, I thought about leaving for a LONG time before I actually did it. It just takes a final giant leap of faith. Is it scary? Yes, certainly. For me, the first couple of weeks after moving out I felt nothing at all. Only recently (5 weeks later) has the reality of it hit me. I am a bit emotional, but am also doing much better than I was when I was still living with my husband.

 

Are you sure you won't want your husband back after you leave? i've heard of that happening a lot.

 

Here are some excerpts from posts I made prior to leaving my husband:

 

"The amount of pain and guilt involved in THINKING about leaving is overwhelming (I haven't left yet, so I can't tell you how the actual leaving experience feels). For those who have not been abused, this likely sounds crazy. I was once a person who had never been abused and if I had heard my very own story I would have thought "what the hell is she thinking? why does she stay?" "

 

"It is fear of the unknown that keeps me from taking action each day. Even though I know my H is abusive, I fear that leaving him will be the biggest mistake I've ever made. I just think, "I'll do something about it tomorrow.""

 

"I have already managed to separate myself emotionally to some degree from my H. I KNOW I don't love him, I don't respect him, I don't want to be with him. I feel like I am just wasting my time with my H. Yet I stay. I stay for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post and even other reasons unknown to me."

[Gunny376]

I was thinking about your thread at work and I read your latest post prior to 3 PM, just as I was headed out the door.

 

Keeping in mind, my original post to your thread, I think that if you had in your heart to honestly and openly reallly try, and to exhaust any and all means possible to save the marriage ~ then you should ~ if the DH was completely on-board 110% to look deep within himself via IC and MC, and to make the changes that he personally need to make as an individual in or out of this or any other marriage.

 

As Lady Jane is testiomony to ~ you can work your way back from the edge, and you can work yourself back away from the abyssis of divorce and all that that entails ~ and its no cake walk down the prime rose path ~ I'm here to tell you.

 

I've given a lot of thought to your post these last eight hours while at work (I can do that I work in a lab by myself ~ LOL! Lots of time for thinking about things)

 

In your case in your latest post ~ I believe its simply a matter of there being to much water over the damn and under the bridge to go back ~ although it is possible to do so ~ and to get back that "loving feeling" but it would require both parties being invested in doing so, and I just don't see that in this thread from either your husband nor yourself.

 

I seriiously doubt that your DH has the capactity to fully participate in the "recovery" and is willing to do the hard work necessary to turn this marriage around.

 

Just the whinning, complaining, moaning about sex. If I got to beg for it ~ I personally don't want it. And, if a woman is just doing it out of wifely obligation ~ then forget it. And, I promise you, I will never beg a woman to have sex with me, and I will never feel that a woman is obligated to have sex with me just because we're together. All that is to me is masturbation with a vagina?

 

And, you've got a clear pretty picture painted in my head that its no longer a question of "if" your going to leave this guy ~ its a question of when?

 

To me? You've got Mrs Warren Buffet syndrone (a term I just now coined) What is it? Warren Buffet as you know is one of the richest men in the world ~ worth billions. His wife left him? She dumped his ass! Why? Because she's of the mind such as you've described yourself that life is for living and not for wasting away. All this guy thinks, lives, breathes about is making money and more of it ~ but what good is it if your not living? Laughing, having a good time, and enjoying and fully expericing your life?

 

I'm not the same person that I was when I went through my divorce 17 years ago. I was a dead serious, all business, nose to the grindstone type of guy ~ and I still am I guess ~ but over the years I've mellowed, adjuested my perceptions and attitudes. My XW was and is a lot of the way that you describe yourself. Outgoing, gergarious, the life of the party, always up for a good time, etc. But, I was the eptiome of a United States Marine ~ twice a drill instructor ~ trying to climb up the food chain.

 

Carrer Marines shouldn't be married ~ or at least until they've made it to the top. The Corps is a mistress in and of itself.

 

Getting back to you ~ and your situation.

 

The question your asking isn't if you should leave ~ you've already made you mind up about that ~ right? The question is when?

 

Well, its pretty much the same as asking when is it a good time to die? Well, any old day will do! One is a good as the other? But there's never a good time to die. And, there's never a good time to divorce. Its going to be all day hard no matter which or what day you pick.

 

But, there are some preliminary things that you need to do, prepatory to doing so ~ getting your ducks in a row, mentally, finacially, spiritually, etc. Divorce is a "rock your world" experience. Its going to change you ~ its going to change you up for real.

 

The biggie is the one that clobbers you up side the head from out of no where ~ and that's different for each individaul ~ and so there's no way that anyone here can predict what that is for you. Each experience is identical ~ yet different!

 

To me? You've already mentally, emotionally have already divorced this guy. The only thing left is to get a mop, a bucket, a preacher to say the last rites, some tissue paper, and let the fat lady sang! Close curtain and exit stage left. Shows over.

[lonelybird]

Seems You are quite not happy. The only thing I know is that you need to be happy again even in your marriage

there is a link, very interesting, maybe helpful

http://www.laughyourway.com/

 

and would you check the "dating forum" first before making your mind? quite messy

[PWSX3]

Your situations sounds a LOT like the one I am in except I was your husband. I know there are many discussions here about trial separations, do they work, yes or no?

 

For me & my W the separation has done what it supposes to do, it gave us both time to stop and look at ourselves to see what we really wanted, to grow up (yes grow up in our 40's) and see what part each of us needed to do to better our marriage.

 

The difference between me & your H is I was hit with the 2X4 & it woke me up. I realized that I needed to learn to be able to cook, clean, go out and enjoy myself and that I didn't need to W to be able to do those things. Sure there are things you need to do with your spouse but like I said before there are things that you have to do on your own, do with your friends.

 

Someone told me this & I feel it's very true. Your spouse is not there to make you happy but is there to enjoy your life & experiances with you. Sounds like your H needs to be woken up as I was.

 

It takes two to make a marriage & it does sound like he has tried but it doesn't sound like he has put his 100% part into the marriage, which makes it hard for you to put your 100% into it.

 

You could always try a trial separation, you have been marriage for 18 years so what would it hurt, take 6-8 months apart and see what that will do & then if it doesn't work you can say at least we tried.

[jmargel]

Like the other poster said you'll always find at least one reason to stay, plus you have the fear of the unknown. Those two combined will make you think about not leaving right now. However those two items will always be there, so at some point you'll have to make the decision, otherwise it'll be made for you.

 

Honestly when you end this make sure to point out that this is BOTH your faults. Not just his. You also had the responsibility to stand up and make things better before letting it get this far. And like I said before, don't stay in the marriage for your little girl. It is already affecting her and not in a good way.

 

Learn from this lesson and above all else read up and learn about how to communicate better, not only with the next guy that is in your life but also with your daughter.

[reddog63]

Tuesmorn:

 

I enjoyed reading your post. I know that sounds strange but it is because your post almost mirrors my situation. It feels better to read about people in the same set of circumstances.

 

I have been married for 21 years. I can look back as say our relationship started going down hill for the last 10 years. She is also a good mom and person.

 

I read all the posts on these type subjects. There are all categories of answers. I can see some points from most posts.

 

But bottom line, I can not shake the gut feeling I need out. I am not having an affair. I have postponed leaving for two years now. This weekend, if my balls are big enough, I will tell her I want to separate.

 

What is the magical answer to this type situation?? I have not figured it out and probably will not. When you reach a point where you are so withdrawn from your marriage, I do not see any alternative.

 

I have read books like the Good Divorce, etc. If you have not, you may want to browse through them. They had examples of various couples, how they met, synopisis of their life, and ulitimately how they lost their feelings for each other.

 

Of course, I do enjoy posts from people like Gunny who tell it like it is. And I do see the valid points that he makes. But I wont let the fear of not finding another woman or that the divorce rate is higher in second marriages change my mind. Partly because I just want to be on own at this point to control my own life. And partly due to the fact that I would rather try to someday have some passion in my life and not look back when I am old and wonder if I should have followed my gut and leave.

 

Anyway........just some thoughts on matter.

[marlena]

'and would you check the "dating forum" first before making up your mind? quite messy'

 

Yes, please do!!! It is indeed messy! Think twice before making that giant leap!! If there is any chance to salvage your marriage,then take 'that leap'. Think of your husband's redeeming qualities!!!! I am sure that if you do, you will find that he has many!!! The grass is not always greener on the other side!!!

[Tuesmorn]

Thanks, ya'll... I'm still thinking on all this, trying to grok. There have been some *very* good points made. I think my biggest thing, apart from the desire to *not* cause pain to my husband and child, is that I'm giving up on the "idea" of the marriage - what it was, what it should be. Everything feels kinda blah right now, and I'm having a hard time mustering up any real emotion, good or bad... But I'm going off for the weekend to see some close friends, so maybe that will help. And today, I'm going to look at a trailer for sale! Yay! I've gotten my two vehicle loans paid off, so I have enough $$ for rent or for a small mortgage. I found a very affordable trailer in a place that meets my criteria (city school system, mainly) on a *nice* lot overlooking a lake. Sweet. The thing that worries me is, I almost feel like I shouldn't bother looking for a place *until* I've done the deed, because I may very well find a place I love, but then not be in the head space to leave the marriage yet, and thus lose the opportunity at that lovely place, and... hmmm... that sounds silly, but that's what's going through my head. Oh well, gonna go look at the trailer anyway and torture myself. Heh. And maybe after this weekend I'll feel like I can sit him down and talk. We seem to be in a state of truce right now - of course, it was just last week that I spent 4 days being way depressed because we fought. How quickly it all gets forgotten, right? Wow. And this morning I got the comment (made to our child, who is going to the grandparents for the weekend) "yeah, she's going off - she doesn't want to have anything to do with me this weekend." Argh. Typical - it's all about him. Okay, where was I? Oh yeah, off on a tangent... Anyway, thanks for the responses - I need to try to get some time off by myself somewhere, maybe hiking in the woods, and also spend some time with some close friends who know what's going on, and just make up my mind. I'm pretty sure I could continue in this marraige in this manner for another couple of years, but I just don't think it'd be good for any of us, really. Alternatively, we could go to MC, and I could put in some real effort, and try try try to fix it. I just have so very many doubts about that. Trial separation? Possible, and not a bad idea... but then I don't need to *buy* a place, I guess. Oh, the logistics - if I rent, I'm locked into a lease. If I buy, I'm locked into a mortgage. Frustrating.

 

Oh yeah - dating? ew. Ya know, I recall having a traditional "date" maybe once in my life. I'm more the type to hang out with friends, meet new friends, get to know the person for a while, hang out doing 'friend' stuff, and just let the relationship progress slowly from there. And assuming I extricate myself from this marraige, I intend to remain single and unattached for quite some time. I really don't need any more emotional complications for a while. I've got to finish my degree, look for a better job, and take care of my child. No thanks to dating.

[mum2three]

It sounds like your husband and you may be in MLC. He may be insecure about your happiness too b/c he keeps you at a short leash by disapproving of you socializing. Have you both talked it out? Sometimes all that fighting is really damaging to the point of no return. I would stop that even though it means not winning the issue and find another way to approach it. It sounds like the underlying resentment is leading to these fights.

 

Why don't you try to do IC and then MC with your H. Let him know where you stand. It sucks to have someone just up and leave one day. He'll never know what hit him. In his eyes, it wasn't "all that bad". He'll also wonder why you never gave him a chance to change.

 

I know you have a great case of why you have mentally checked out of the M. But the more I read this story, mine, and others I really wonder if there is longevity in most M. We are bound to be too comfortable in our M at some point whethere it be 5, 10, or 20 yrs. It seems like everyone complains of the slow death and the love is dead and not revivable. I think we should talk to all the old couples and survey what they value in their M and how it sustained them thru all life's greatest & smallest challenges. There must be greater sacrifice than just "me" at different points in a M. I don't know.