Remorseful cheaters: do not "come clean" with your spouse.

[Ripples]

No, I'm sorry, I'm still not explaining myself. If the dynamic of a marriage is strong enough to survive an affair, it means that both parties love each other enough to put things right. If that's the case, then both parties love each other enough to put things right if the marriage is in such dire straits that one or other of the parties desires an affair.

 

If my spouse was so distant that I suspected he wanted to have an affair I'd be asking some serious questions and if our relationship was healthy enough, he would start answering.

 

If my spouse was so distant that I suspected he wanted an affair, but I didn't approach him, he would have an affair, and if our relationship was healthy enough, we would work through it.

 

The same outcome for the two different scenarios.

 

If the relationship wasn't strong enough in the beginning, neither scenario would work out, in my opinion.

[Trialbyfire]

I understand where you're coming from.

 

The sad reality is that an affair is composed of lies. Part of the thrill of an affair is secrecy. If you ask a cheating spouse with no evidence, most would deny it.

[silktricks]

In the all too common scenario where the husband sees that his wife rarely wants sex with him ..

 

Why doesn't she just come out and give the reason? Ex:

 

1) "You physically repulse me"

2) "I no longer have any sexual desires whatsoever"

3) "I don't love you romantically anymore"

..

 

Doesn't she owe that much to her husband? Shouldn't she come clean also? At least that way he knows what kind of marriage he has .. right?

 

Because at least some of the time the reason is none of those. Sometimes the reason is because:

 

1. I feel like you treat me like a lump of coal

2. I'm so depressed about being treated like a lump of coal that I can't feel much of anything

3. I'm only a lump of coal and can't pretend to be anything better, especially in bed.

 

Before you react to that SD, please know that the person who is treating the other one badly rarely is aware of that. BOTH my H and I thought we were treating the other well, but being treated poorly ourselves. Both of us felt mistreated, used, ignored and undesirable. Both of us also felt like we were treating the other person well. We both ended up trying to feel like we were worthy people in ways that were non-productive for our marriage, but what we were trying to do, really was just feel good about ourselves in some small measure.

[Ripples]

I understand where you're coming from.

 

The sad reality is that an affair is composed of lies. Part of the thrill of an affair is secrecy. If you ask a cheating spouse with no evidence, most would deny it.

 

I'm sorry, you're still not getting it. You also seem to be telling me something as though I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to affairs. I find that a little rude.

[Trialbyfire]

I'm sorry, you're still not getting it. You also seem to be telling me something as though I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to affairs. I find that a little rude.

Actually, I am getting it. You are saying that if a relationship is strong enough, you should be able to work through issues, hopefully previous to the final dust-up. Correct?

 

No, if I recall correctly, you were cheated on.

[silktricks]

I've stayed out of this discourse, but have found the conversations interesting. I have to admit that at times I wish I didn't know of my H's indiscretions because I don't like the pain of it. But the pain is due to reality, and I'm not much of a believer in fairytales, even though they're pleasant.

 

In some ways this discussion has been amusing to me. My H was betrayed by his first wife, somewhat as SC's was (except it was a little worse as it was with his worst enemy) before he was married to her, and had strong feelings about her telling him about it after they were married. He always told me that people who told didn't tell for the good of the person being told, they told for themselves - much as the OP says. However, when I asked him why he told me, he said it was because he knew our marriage couldn't survive without truth between us.

 

So did he tell for himself? Yes, of course he did. But he also told for me. He told because he wanted "us" back, and without my knowledge of his actions "we" could not really ever be back.

 

Truth is real. If a marriage can't be based on truth, then it can never be a real marriage. The fairytale is that they lived happily ever after, but everyone who has ever been married knows that is only a fairytale. It's the working out of the hard stuff that makes a marriage. If you never face the really truly difficult times head-on together, then you've never really got a marriage either. You just have two people living in the same house.

[Scrivdog]

Because at least some of the time the reason is none of those. Sometimes the reason is because:

 

1. I feel like you treat me like a lump of coal

2. I'm so depressed about being treated like a lump of coal that I can't feel much of anything

3. I'm only a lump of coal and can't pretend to be anything better, especially in bed.

 

Before you react to that SD, please know that the person who is treating the other one badly rarely is aware of that. BOTH my H and I thought we were treating the other well, but being treated poorly ourselves. Both of us felt mistreated, used, ignored and undesirable. Both of us also felt like we were treating the other person well. We both ended up trying to feel like we were worthy people in ways that were non-productive for our marriage, but what we were trying to do, really was just feel good about ourselves in some small measure.

 

That's just a little contrived, isn't it? I'm not suggesting, of course, that this doesn't ever happen. I'm sure that for every common situation described, one could easily come up with an exception. But my scenario is not all that uncommon. In fact we have posters here admit they no longer find their husbands very appealing any more.

[silktricks]

If my spouse was so distant that I suspected he wanted to have an affair I'd be asking some serious questions and if our relationship was healthy enough, he would start answering.

 

If my spouse was so distant that I suspected he wanted an affair, but I didn't approach him, he would have an affair, and if our relationship was healthy enough, we would work through it.

 

Although I agree with you in substance, I think that there are a couple of points. First, if the relationship was really healthy, the affair thing wouldn't come up. I'd probably use a different word. Strong - deep, whatever, but healthy. . . nah, that it's not.

 

Second, the serious questions. It would depend on what those questions were. If the questions were something along the line of "are you thinking of having an affair?" You probably wouldn't get an honest answer regardless of how deep the commitment between you, simply because of the fact that the relationship is at that time in deep doo-doo. If however, the questions were more in the line of "are we having problems? What is my part in those problems?" Then, you could probably get the discussion going and maybe even get resolution.

 

The problem is that the person who is asking the question is usually pretty scared, and insecure, and putting yourself out there as the problem in the relationship is almost impossible at that point without some MC as well.

 

Anyway, that's my opinion.

[silktricks]

That's just a little contrived, isn't it? I'm not suggesting, of course, that this doesn't ever happen. I'm sure that for every common situation described, one could easily come up with an exception.

Well, no it's not contrived. It was exactly how I felt a few years ago. And it is actually quite common, possibly more so than those women who are no longer attracted to their husbands.

 

And as I said - it was a "some of the time" situation. No one scenario ever fits everyone.

 

But my scenario is not all that uncommon. In fact we have posters here admit they no longer find their husbands very appealing any more.

and YES those women should talk to their husbands.

[mrmaximum]

First: I am NOT a cheater in wolves's clothing. ......

...Kobashi maru inquisition. I still think there are a fair number of circumstances where the answer would be "no".

 

Kewl I liked star trek too. Anyway I first thought of you as a cheater until you cleared yourself in the other thread. You looked too much into my statement, I was just agreeing with another poster that you seem to be taking the cheaters perspective, I think it strange due to your circumstances but whatever. As for my question, I meant that your stance put you in that position. Is it a sick and twisted convo, perhaps, my dad cheated on my mom and my xgf cheated on me. My fiancee was with a serial cheater for 7 - 8 years so it was relevant to us, I just wanted to see what your answer was. When you have a stance such as the one that you and Sugaree share, you can tell us that you'd keep it to yourself but tell that to your spouse and you may be sleeping on the couch for quite some time. I don't think many people would accept that. I know it was an extreme extrapolation, but that was my point, how many people would walk into a relationship knowing that their SO has a stance like this? Hardly heart warming right? One more thing, OED it isn't your sole responsibility to make sure that your wife doesn't cheat. Yes you are making youself availiable to her and that is commendable and the fact that you are fighting for your family's happines is admirable, however, you can't save the world by yourself, she needs to recognize what is happeing too but it sounds like your going this alone. I do hope that this isn't the case and she doesn't repeat her past mistakes, you sound like a good man who is busting his @ss for his family and frankly I don't think you deserved to be cheated on the first time. Hope things work out for you.

[serial muse]

Dude, I have to say the one point the "spill the beans" camp has that I've really had to think hard about is the idea that the cheater gets to decide what the betrayed spouse is allowed to know or not know. I agree that it seems unfair that one half of the couple should not get to decide or limit the other without their consent.

 

That being said, I agree that it is B.S. that the wife (it's almost always the wife) can up and say, "I don't want sex. Therefore, since it is immoral for you to go outside the marriage to get sex, I have decided for you that you will no longer have sex." Women do not see it this way, but that is what they are saying. Here again it is wrong that one partner gets to decide for the other what they will or will not have.

 

Bearing that in mind, you're argument is, well, ridiculous. They are not even in the same GALAXY of magnitude, and is an issue that can be addressed by ultimatum - "we WILL do what is necessary for you to rediscover your libido, or you WILL NOT be married anymore, at least not to me." Having the wife "cut you off" for a reason that she cannot, or will not discuss with you is hardly tantamount to disclosure of an affair.

 

This is such a gross overgeneralization that it's kind of funny. Injecting a voice of reason, however - I have made that very point that you referred to, about why the cheater should get to make unilateral decisions, several times. I am in the "spill-the-beans" camp, generally. I am also a woman.

 

And at no time have I EVER said that the woman should decide unilaterally whether sex happens or not. I also haven't seen "women" in general make any such argument on here. I know this kind of nonsense overgeneralization is what happens when people start to feel under attack - they strike back at what they perceive as a weakness, invalid as it is - but come on, now. I think the vast majority of women on this thread are talking about wanting a healthy relationship, which includes sexual satisfaction for both partners. Your argument is, as you say - well, ridiculous.

[Mustang Sally]

For the record, if anyone is keeping count, I am another pragmatist. I would feel, as a cheater, that an A in such a situation as the OP outlines, were my personal cross to bear if I tried to fix my M.

 

Amerikajin and MySugaree - you are my heroes! Thank you for saying, more eloquently than I could, exactly what I was thinking!

[Guest]

I agree 100% with OED. 'Coming clean' is the easy way out. Weep a bit, fight a bit, make up, make love. The cheated will feel obliged to forgive and obliged to say that yes, our love is strong enough to bear that. Now the cheater is feeling exonerated and the cheated is feeling soiled.

 

Take responsibility for your sins and lie, lie, lie. Bear your own cross, as OED says, don't unload it onto your spouse.

 

Let me hasten to add, that this advise goes for one-night stands only. If you are cheating on a regular basis and don't want a divorce, honesty is the only thing that MAY work, but it will hurt your spouse a lot and probably ruin, if not end, your marriage.

 

 

 

LOL@ one-night stands. So, my W can bear her cross if she has sex one-night for one month, then cheat again in another 3 months for one night and then cheat again for another night in two months...

[Guest]

Im assuming that you are also for salvaging the marriage if the W has another man's child during the affair and tries to play it off as the husband's child as well? Does that go under her burden to bear? Her secret to keep from her H and her child?

[Oper Edei Deixai]

This is such a gross overgeneralization that it's kind of funny. Injecting a voice of reason, however - I have made that very point that you referred to, about why the cheater should get to make unilateral decisions, several times. I am in the "spill-the-beans" camp, generally. I am also a woman.

 

And at no time have I EVER said that the woman should decide unilaterally whether sex happens or not. I also haven't seen "women" in general make any such argument on here. I know this kind of nonsense overgeneralization is what happens when people start to feel under attack - they strike back at what they perceive as a weakness, invalid as it is - but come on, now. I think the vast majority of women on this thread are talking about wanting a healthy relationship, which includes sexual satisfaction for both partners. Your argument is, as you say - well, ridiculous.

 

Sorry for overgeneralizing, but it was an analogy used by the poster I was responding to that I was rephrasing, and quite honestly agree with, but I simply couldn't see them being in the same realm of severity. I should not have said the line "It's almost always the wife". I was merely speaking of what I know and have experienced or heard from others in conversations, anecdotal stories in books and magazines and scenarios on television. Quite frankly I have never heard of a husband "withholding sex" as a power ploy - I don't think they're physically capable of it. Hell, Hollywood made a movie about it (40 days and 40 nights).

 

Also, I'm sure if you polled 100 women that are in a LTR and asked them if they've ever withheld sex to "make a point" or gain an edge in a relationship, probably 98 of them would say "No, never. I want a healthy relationship, which includes sexual satisfaction for both partners." and "the woman should never decide unilaterally whether sex happens or not." I don't think a single one of them would feel they were being untruthful in their responses. If you asked their husbands/SO's however, I think the number of respondents who said their spouse did withhold sex would be closer to 20-30 saying "no", and they too would not be untruthful. The only thing I'm really trying to say is that many relationship dynamics are viewed in a very different manners depending on who's P.O.V. you are seeing it from (I know, I know - thank you Mr. Obvious). I was not being sensitive to the female P.O.V., and I was wrong. Sorry.

[Rhyla]

I'm pretty new here, but I've noticed that "coming clean" with your spouse about an affair is a pretty common recommendation. Well, I hate to be the fly in the ointment, but I couldn't possibly disagree more.

 

If you have an affair and, through your own volition, have decided to end the affair and concentrate on your marriage, chances are pretty good you're going to feel terribly guilty - and justifiably so. You're going to be told by people here that your spouse "needs to know" - that you should "come clean". No. That horrible empty feeling you have - that gnawing guilt eating away at the back of your head - that's your cross to bear.

 

The moment you unload your mistakes onto him or her, you've opened up their heart and forced them to carry your burden and share your misery and shame. You don't get to do that. The main reason people confess is that the guilt is eating them alive. That's just too bad.

 

If they find out - that's different

If you fall in love with someone else, don't want to work on your marriage and need a divorce - whatever

But if you have an affair and regret it - you get to hold that in ALONE.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to share another take on a common piece of advice I see here. Any thoughts? Agree/disagree?

I understand where this point of view comes from. That it's "better" for the relationship, if you want it to continue.

 

BUT, i disagree wholeheartedly. I do not believe that whether or not the relationship should continue post infidelity is the cheating spouse's decision to make.

[Rhyla]

That wasn't the point I was trying to make.

 

Many have argued that the cheater needs to disclose because failing to do so leaves the other spouse loyal to the marriage partner for the wrong reasons. I'm following the same arguments given here that by not telling, the spouse can't make a decision to stay in the marriage using all the unformation at his/her disposal.

 

If a husband were to know that his wife no longer loves him nor is attracted to him, then shouldn't he have the chance to know this and decide to stay or not as opposed to being fed a pack of lies?

 

But posters above have suggested that doing so would be cruel and so therefore it should be kept from him.

 

So what is good for the goose is not for the gander?

 

Having responded to the OP that I do believe that the partner should be told of the cheating and given the decision to stay or not. YES i would say the same in this circumstance. Im my husband no longer loved me or was attracted to me, then what is the point in staying? Let us both move on with our lives and find someone who will love us, and who will meet our needs.

[Greggie]

Spiritually:

If you are a Christian, forgiveness comes after confession. If you want to be forgiven, you have to confess your sin. The first confession is to the person you offended. When you have been forgiven by this person, that's only when you can ask for God's forgiveness.

 

Your growth as a person:

If you made a mistake and you know you did, you have to take responsibility for it. By sneaking in and out to have an affair, you are living a lie - you have to take the consequences of your actions. Infidelity often causes a marital breakup. And if you are not smart enough to realize this BEFORE commiting the 'unsmart' thing, you have to face up to its consequences. That's what we, as adults, teach our children.

 

Also, have you heard of Freud and the unconscious? Or Carl Jung and the collective unconscious and the anima/persona theories? If you keep sweeping stuff into your unconsious, it comes out in weird forms later on. So, for your own sake, you need this honesty exercise to keep you and your brain and heart working well.

[Erik]

LOL@ one-night stands. So, my W can bear her cross if she has sex one-night for one month, then cheat again in another 3 months for one night and then cheat again for another night in two months...

 

Eh, well, you've got me there. No. I'd not like to play number games, but say you woman had a ONS every second year or so, I'd say yes. I'd not recommend infidelity to anyone, but going honest about it is extremely stressful to any marriage, may even end it. A cruel and unnatural punishment for what may not seem like a small transgression to you, but could very well be seen as that by your woman. Like men, sometimes women don't think with their head. It would be like punishing jaywalking or speeding with years of prison. Unless she cheats on you habitually, an ONS rarely means very much to a woman, not much compared to the hurt disclosure would mean, anyway.

 

The same would go for you, of course.

[Salicious Crumb]

A cruel and unnatural punishment for what may not seem like a small transgression to you, but could very well be seen as that by your woman. Like men, sometimes women don't think with their head. It would be like punishing jaywalking or speeding with years of prison. Unless she cheats on you habitually, an ONS rarely means very much to a woman, not much compared to the hurt disclosure would mean, anyway.

 

The same would go for you, of course.

 

You are comparing cheating with jaywalking? More like assault and battery.

 

and everyone has jaywalked in their lifetime...not everyone has cheated.

[Erik]

You are comparing cheating with jaywalking? More like assault and battery.

 

and everyone has jaywalked in their lifetime...not everyone has cheated.

 

Maybe not jaywalking. I lived with a cheating wife for many years; it's not funny but it's not assault and battery either unless you make it so. And no, not everyone has cheated. Yet.

[mrmaximum]

Im assuming that you are also for salvaging the marriage if the W has another man's child during the affair and tries to play it off as the husband's child as well? Does that go under her burden to bear? Her secret to keep from her H and her child?

 

Read about this situation in the latest issue of Mens health and then did some research on the internet. It's crappy stuff to be sure and one could lose their lunch over it. I wonder what the answers will be to be honest. This sort of thing makes infidelity seem like a walk in the park be comparison, it's just cruel and not only that but the medical establishment will back the wife 80% of the time if the deception is found out. The stats show that 10% of all families in the Western world are part of this paternal fraud, men raising kids that they think are their own but not. It's right up the alley for the pragmatist to say continue on with the status quo for the sake of all and the infidelity goes unnoticed. Wonderful isn't it?

[Greggie]

Are you still in pain, Erik, for your wife's cheating?

[Erik]

Are you still in pain, Erik, for your wife's cheating?

 

Yes, a little. Such things never go away entirely.

[Erik]

But human beings that love each other hurt each other no matter whichhowever, that's just life. You open yourself to love, you risk hurt. No pain no gain.