You have no idea what love is.

[Intertwined]

There is this girl..

 

I want her. I want her so bad. She makes my blood sing. It is like I am on fire when she is near. I guess that says it all, but there is more. So much more.

 

I didnt always love her, or need her like this. Things started out so indifferent. She was just a girl that I saw everyday, and she passed the time with me with conversation and laughs. I dont know what shifted in me, but the minute I realized it, nothing could stop me.

 

There are many things wrong with this picture. The most obvious is that she has a boyfriend.

 

Her boyfriend is a piece of *hit and truly, I am not saying that because I want her, I am saying that because it is true. He is very cold and mean spirited with her, hurtful, emotionally abusive, pretty much everything a boyfriend is NOT supposed to be, he is. I have witnessed this first hand. I know she can now see this too, I helped her to open her eyes. Before, she just accepted it.

 

She wants to break up with him, and she has tried, many times. I have heard her break up with him firsthand, only to have him not accept it. I think part of the reason she hangs on and doesnt just leave is that he has got her brainwashed. I know that sounds extreme, but thats what I think. I guess it helps that he was her first love.

 

We have had many conversations on what she is going to do once she breaks up with him. She wants to take a break from men, which suits me just fine, seeing on how I plan to be with her every step of the way during her healing process. I dont care if she doesnt go out with me, I know eventually she will, just as long she is away from him.

 

This girl came from a horrible upbringing. She has suffered through so much, horrible things that would likely make a person go mad. I think that this is what motivates her to run away from everything and everybody and to choose the men that she chooses.

 

She knows that I care for her strongly, but not to what extent, I havent fully revealed and that is because she shuts down when she knows someone cares about her. She puts alot of distance between those that care for her and herself.

 

I am not being lied to or manipulated at all. In fact, if anyone is manipulative, it is me. I have managed to wrangle some sort of physical interaction out of all of this. We havent had sex, but we have fooled around. Her body comes alive in my arms, but she fights her emotions for me still. I know she posesses a tremendous amount of control, as hot as she is, as wild and wet and responsive as she is, she always manages to stop me before things get out of hand. I have been doing this with her for a year and a half and she still refuses to let me get inside. (Both her heart and her body)

 

I am so hooked now, that I want to marry her, as early as tomorrow, if possible.

 

I know exactly what I am doing. I am very experienced, and no stranger to women and their tricks and attention getting tactics. I learned very early on what some women and their games are all about. This girl is not one of those women. I have had to fight very hard to even get this far with her, but the rest is still a struggle. One that I wont lose.

 

But, one I need help with too. This situation is very delicate and complicated. I am tempted strongly to just set her up, and have her boyfriend show up unexpectedly and catch us together. Doesnt have to be anything sexual, as long as we are seen together, it will be over. Though she has excused him time and time again for his past indescretions, he wont for her.

 

I know if it ends between them, she will cry for a couple of days but will be fine after that. She is very resilient. Also, there is a part of her that will be relieved. And she never needs to know that it was I who put an end to it.

 

Would this be so wrong? They arent married, they dont have kids.Their relationship is hanging by a very weak frayed thread. Everyone but her sees that he uses and abuses her, but she refuses to give up on people. What could be so wrong, as long as once I get her heart in my hands, I care for it, and nurture her as she truly deserves?

 

This girl will hang on until he destroys her. She refuses to give up on anything, unless they give her up. Thats the type of person she is. She just wont quit. Is there something wrong with intervening, and putting this situation out of its misery? Does anyone have any suggestions?

[whichwayisup]

If she cheats with you, there's a good chance she'll cheat ON you in the future.

 

If it is so right, then back off, stop making moves on her, stop manipulating the situation and let it happen naturally. If you're SO sure you'll marry her, DO IT the right way. Be her friend, but give her space...Let HER decide when her relationship with the boyfriend is over. Don't push it, otherwise you WILL be the rebound guy. She obviously has feelings for him otherwise she would not be with him now.

 

It's also NOT your relationship, not your place to break them up.

[Intertwined]

If she cheats with you, there's a good chance she'll cheat ON you in the future.

 

 

I have to laugh everytime I see this, because its so cliche.

 

There is also a good chance that she wont. I have cheated with someone before, and then been absolutely faithful to them once we got in a relationship. We broke up because I wasnt ready to marry and she was.

 

As I said before, I am no stranger to women, I have been in many different types of relationships, this woman is definately NOT a pirranha. (sp?) She managed to get involved with the wrong guy who exploited her weaknesses, is all.

Let HER decide when her relationship with the boyfriend is over.

 

If left up to her own devices, she will let herself get ruined completely. He only staked his claim on her because she has no one in her life to give a *hit about her, no family, no friends. No one. No one to watch over her, or defend her. Protect her, if she needs it. He doesnt own her, but he acts as if he does.

 

Don't push it, otherwise you WILL be the rebound guy.

 

Not a chance. She isnt the sleep around, serial relationship type of woman. She wants to be alone, after this, and I can live with that until she heals herself. She also wants to go into counseling, (she knows she needs help) something he wont let her do right now, (my guess is because he is afraid they will tell her to get out of that relationship quick)

 

t's also NOT your relationship, not your place to break them up.

 

But it is my friendship, and if nothing else, I should at least look out for her, not let her kill herself day in and day out just because she refuses to give up on anything.

[Intertwined]

The lack of responses indicate that no one has further advice on this??! I am confused!! It seems that others recieved alot of advice on their issues. Why is my issue any different? Or is it because it is too long??

 

I basically need to know how wrong it could possibly be if I were to step in and sort of make something happen? Unless others have different suggestions?

 

I dont want to sit idly by and watch this girl get trampled on time after time just because she doesnt realize her own worth and her boyfriend is exploiting her.

[whichwayisup]

I have to laugh everytime I see this, because its so cliche.

 

Yes it is cliche, but hey, it's something to be aware of either way.

 

 

As I said before, I am no stranger to women, I have been in many different types of relationships, this woman is definately NOT a pirranha. (sp?) She managed to get involved with the wrong guy who exploited her weaknesses, is all.

 

The thing is, you aren't her keeper. I understand you wanting to help her get out of that relationship, but DO so because you want to help her. Don't do it so she can fall into your arms afterwards. Remember, people need time between relationships to heal. And, seeing as she is with a man who treats her like crap, her self confidence obviously isn't great. Neither is her frame of mind, the way she is handling her own relationship. Again, that is why people need breathing room before starting up another relationship. But, I assume you know this already.

 

I basically need to know how wrong it could possibly be if I were to step in and sort of make something happen? Unless others have different suggestions?

 

It isn't your place to mess in her life. If she tells you, I want OUT of this relationship, please help me. Fine, help her. But, she isn't asking for you to rescue her!

Things have to happen on their own, and if you push it and butt into her life that way, it could come back and bite you.....Especially if she didn't ask for your help. Hope that makes sense.

 

I dont want to sit idly by and watch this girl get trampled on time after time just because she doesnt realize her own worth and her boyfriend is exploiting her.

 

Does she know how you feel about her boyfriend? Or are you keeping this all quiet? All you can do is tell her that he may not be the right one for her, and you hope someday soon she gets the strength to end it. THAT what a friend does...Don't force it.

 

You can help her find a therapist, be involved in that, encourage her.

 

But it is my friendship, and if nothing else, I should at least look out for her, not let her kill herself day in and day out just because she refuses to give up on anything.

 

Has she asked you for your help, asked you to help her get out of the relationship? Sadly, it's her life. Her choice and if she isn't ready to throw in the towel, there's not alot you can do. If you interfer too much, she may turn on you.

[alphamale]

This girl will hang on until he destroys her. She refuses to give up on anything, unless they give her up. Thats the type of person she is. She just wont quit. Is there something wrong with intervening, and putting this situation out of its misery? Does anyone have any suggestions?

Women that have been abused when young prefer men who are abusers when the get older. If you want her then you better become and abuser yourself cause that's the only way you'll get her.

 

And one last comment...you knowledge of how women operate is quite limited.

[Art_Critic]

I dont want to sit idly by and watch this girl get trampled on time after time just because she doesnt realize her own worth and her boyfriend is exploiting her.

 

What makes you her savior ?

 

Has she asked you to intervene ?

 

She has been abused and she will be a mess to be with.

 

Why not just find someone that isn't taken and isn't getting poked by someone else ?

 

If you are around when they break up the relationship you have with her will not be a healthy one.. it will be unbalanced and based on the savior complex.

[networkingman]

Run like your a$$ is on fire! Don't get mixed up in this, trust me!

[whichwayisup]

Glad to see that I'm not the only one who sees the trouble and the red flags all over the place.

 

Sorry Intertwined, but you gotta take a step back and be more realistic.

[justanothermother]

It sounds like maybe you've fallen for her *because* you have the knight in shinning armor/savior complex. Some men are most attracted to women in distress that they feel they need to "save". It's a rather big ego boost to come to the rescue like some type of superhero.

 

Just something to think about...

[alphamale]

It sounds like maybe you've fallen for her *because* you have the knight in shinning armor/savior complex. Some men are most attracted to women in distress that they feel they need to "save". It's a rather big ego boost to come to the rescue like some type of superhero....

agreed JAM....and they are usually "nice guys" who want to rescue some female in distress who really doesn't want to be rescued to begin with.

[Walk]

I basically need to know how wrong it could possibly be if I were to step in and sort of make something happen? Unless others have different suggestions?

I'm side-stepping the issue on how many red flags are waving...

 

But to answer the question... It wouldn't help if you did this. Right now she's allowing others to control her. If you step in, then you are controlling her too. You believe you have better intentions, but the outcome is the same. You will be dictating what happens in her life, and hurting her in the process. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

She needs to find the strength in herself to leave this guy. If she can do that , then she'll have something she can hold onto.. a small sense of taking control of her destiny and being able to pull it off on her own. She doesn't need more people trying to tell her what to do, or who she is, or what she needs. She needs to have faith in herself.

 

You'd be better off telling her to go to a counselor secretely.

 

Or stepping out of her life until she decides what she wants. With you in it right now, she's getting the emotional side fulfilled through you, and the security and whatever else through her bf. She has no reason to leave. Her needs are met right now. If you stepped out of her life, those emotional needs wouldn't be met anymore. She'd have the chance to see the glaring problems in her relationship now that the gaps aren't being filled by you. It might drive her to leave in order to find that emotional fulfillment again. Let her know you're happy to help, but that you have to step away until she decides to leave her bf. When that happens, she can call you.

 

It would seem that if her life were in danger that there'd be some sort of assistance the government could give? I'm not sure who to call or anything, but a search for abuse on the web might give some good organizations to call. If you feel she's in danger, then get someone else involved. But setting up a situation that will bring the wraith of her bf down on her is stupid. Unless your goal is to get her beat to shyt. He won't let her go. He'll just beat her down until she stops trying to see you.

[Erik]

I say stay away, this girl is trouble. You say you know about women, but it seems to me she is operating you already. You say you have been in intimate situations, but she's not been giving it to you - why? If she really wanted to leave her bf, she'd cheat on him.

 

You could spend a lifetime trying to heal her, and in the unlikely case you actually manage to help her, she'll leave you because of the very fact that you helped her.

 

But if you absolutely must, you better heed alphamale:

 

"If you want her then you better become and abuser yourself cause that's the only way you'll get her."

[Sand&Water]

Reply:

 

Listen to yourself, Intertwined!

 

You sound like a raging psycho manic lust-filled dude. This driving force will lead you right into the pot of doom.

 

There is only one way to go about this -eye to eye and with non savior-like dynamics -to see healthy, ground breaking results:

 

(A) You are her friend -a basic foundation. You are supposed to help her. Stop stripping away her power. Continue to help her on this journey -no interventions, no control, no more cheating, infidelity, and nurturing baloney.

 

(B) She has a long way to go -one that will require her to realize by herself that the relationship is not healthy. Don't make things happen by your will. No.

 

© The quasi-friendship-relationship you have with her now, is not healthy -nor is it on the same level. Obviously their are roles associated with it [parent-child role, hero-women-in-distress role] and that's not the way it works in relationships.

 

Get your twisted mind out of the hole, and support her if she needs it and/or asks for it. Period.

 

Sand&Water

[Erik]

You don't have to abuse her physically, but she probably craves someone make her feel worthless. You should also order her around a lot, maybe cheat on her. If you are both happy with that, maybe it could work.

 

The sarcasm is not as thick as you think. Chance is, this girl will never relate normally to men, and you sound like a nice guy. Being abused by a nice guy beats being abused by an *******, no?

[Intertwined]

You say you know about women, but it seems to me she is operating you already

 

How exactly is she operating me? What gives you that impression?

 

I say stay away, this girl is trouble.

 

What makes you say that? Because she is in a bad relationship? Because of her past? That somehow makes her tainted and nothing but trouble?

 

I am not a typical "nice guy" and I am certainly not a rescuer. You have to think, I have stumbled across this scenario more than once in my history of hooking up with women, the typical "he's a horrible boyfriend" situation and even though I knew they were looking for a way out, there was no way that the way out was going to be me. I gave them what they came for, sex and conversation and I moved on.

 

"If you want her then you better become and abuser yourself cause that's the only way you'll get her."

 

Seems like a little bit of skewed thinking, doesnt it? Again, it is also cliche. Not every woman in a horrible situation is looking to find another abuser. And again, I have been down that road too. I learned that way early on, when I around 13 by mimicking the same patterns as the boyfriend of the girl I was attracted to. Didnt work. Just made me look even crazier than her f-up boyfriend and she never left him.

 

She has been abused and she will be a mess to be with

 

So therefore, she is not worth it then? Because she has been abused?

 

Why not just find someone that isn't taken and isn't getting poked by someone else ?

 

Pretty much everyone is being poked by someone these days. It would be the same if I was casually dating a girl. She would be dating others and getting poked by them too.

 

Besides, I dont want another woman. I want her.

 

The other thing is, I wouldnt be necessarily screwing in her life and making a bigger mess exactly. Not directly anyway. One phone call. Thats it. And it would all be over with. She doesnt need to know it was me who called him. In fact, he would break up with her then and there. If she does blame me, then so what. She will get over it, and at least she can begin healing on her own after that.

 

If I were to judge who had the most sound advice out of the lot of you, I would have to pick Walk.

 

-Will respond in a moment.

[alphamale]

Besides, I dont want another woman. I want her. .

But she doesn't want you....otherwise she would be with you. A romantic relationship is a two-way street.

[Art_Critic]

If I were to judge who had the most sound advice out of the lot of you, I would have to pick Walk.

 

Oh.. that's rich.. grading our advice..

 

I think I may have stumbled onto your problem...

 

 

Peace Out..

[Erik]

She is operating you by stringing you out. She bitches about her bf, but keeps going back to him. As I said, why aren't you having sex with her? You say she doesn't know how you feel about her, but this is nonsense, women know such stuff. Especially after:

 

"I am not being lied to or manipulated at all. In fact, if anyone is manipulative, it is me. I have managed to wrangle some sort of physical interaction out of all of this. We havent had sex, but we have fooled around. Her body comes alive in my arms, but she fights her emotions for me still. I know she posesses a tremendous amount of control, as hot as she is, as wild and wet and responsive as she is, she always manages to stop me before things get out of hand. I have been doing this with her for a year and a half and she still refuses to let me get inside. (Both her heart and her body)"

 

Classical. She's operating you; maybe she doesn't know herself, but she is. It's called the yo-yo treatment, works with girls too...

[Erik]

Bear in mind, I may be the only one to actually suggest you give it a go. I've known abused girls, and the ladies will hate me for saying this, but they don't come better in bed. Maybe you could even make her happy, but not by being nice and understanding.

[stace79]

I have some advice. Stop being a homewrecker. The only reason you want her so badly is because she is a challenge and involved with someone else. If I had a penny for every POS trying to break up a relationship, I'd be a millionaire, and frankly, it disgusts me.

 

If she wanted you that badly, she'd break up with her boyfriend and be with you. Get a grip. And how old are you exactly???

[stace79]

And another thing...you ooze the scent of a narcissist.

[Intertwined]

Thats not to say that I havent been getting laid left and right while this whole thing has been going on, I certainly have.

 

 

Keep in mind that because this friendship has been ongoing for a year and a half, that doesnt mean that we have been physical for that whole time. The physical aspect finally happened around 5-6 months ago. She finally caved and let down her guard. Before, she was completely untouchable, we were really close, but she was so on guard all the time, distant, wary and it seemed emotionless.

 

As I said, why aren't you having sex with her?

 

Because she doesnt want to have sex with me while she is with someone else. When I asked her, that is what she said. Which is fine. If this was all about @ss, I would have been long gone. Personally, I think some of it could be related to her past as well, we have had a few limited conversations about that in the beginning. There is alot of reluctance and fear and timidness with regards to sex that she probably needs to work on.

 

Contrary to popular belief, not every girl is willing to spread em just like that.

 

Oh.. that's rich.. grading our advice..

 

 

Call it as I see it, no offense, but lets think logically about this. You came blasting in with all of these comments that are unfounded.

 

I think I may have stumbled onto your problem

 

and what is yours? Being too quick to assume, and just as quick to leave?

 

Erik, She does know how I feel, just not to what extent. I am not going to share that with her unless she is out of her relationship and has time to heal and then I will let her know all about my tendency towards being a raging psycho manic lust-filled dude...

 

Im not stupid, Im not going to lay all of my cards on the table until I get something substantial from her first.

 

 

But she doesn't want you....otherwise she would be with you

 

More cliches...not everything boils down to wording. People cant be bundled into clever phrases so easily. And she is with me, just not in the way I would like her to be at the moment. I could make that happen, but you guys think I am a psyco for trying. So I will listen, but it seems that everyone keeps suggesting the easy way out.

 

What will the loss be if I just try it? You will have to take my word for it, that she is not a maneating manipulater, you just have to know her, to know what I mean. Sure she has faults, and I know them, maybe not all of them, but they are things I can live with. I do think she is special. And I do think that she is 100% worth it.

 

The alternative is to sit back and watch her bang her head against the wall for x amount of time.

[Intertwined]

I have some advice. Stop being a homewrecker

 

What home? I wouldnt consider what she has a home. More like a prison. And they arent married, and they dont have kids, they dont even have a semblance of family. All of her holidays are spent alone, unless she spends them with me, even christmas. Even her birthday. And they live together!

 

. The only reason you want her so badly is because she is a challenge and involved with someone els

 

Again, another cliche...No, that is not why. I have seen and had my fair share of challenges..some of them I have been defeated in, some of them I got what I wanted. I am not a challenge junkie.

 

If she wanted you that badly, she'd break up with her boyfriend and be with

 

Says who? That fabulous cliche? This is getting redundant.

 

And another thing...you ooze the scent of a narcissist

 

arent we all, at one point or another, in our heart of hearts? You can be honest, because you know its true.

[alphamale]

you don't have a leg to stand on INTERTWINED