You have no idea what love is.

[whichwayisup]

But to answer the question... It wouldn't help if you did this. Right now she's allowing others to control her. If you step in, then you are controlling her too. You believe you have better intentions, but the outcome is the same. You will be dictating what happens in her life, and hurting her in the process. The road to hell is paved with good intentions

 

I agree 100% with Walk.

 

It's HER life, her choice. And to make one phone call, without telling her, even though you think your intentions good, YOU have invested interest in this situation, and you're trying to control and push things to happen in your time frame. It's manipulation and sneaky - With good intent, but it still is messing with someone's life, especially since they have NOT asked for help. You cannot control the outcome, or what she does. And, there is no real guarantee that if she does leave him, she'll end up with you.

 

Emotionally she won't be ready to be in another relationship, but in your mind it seems she'll be 'yours' as soon as it's over with him.

 

I hope this makes sense to you.

[Erik]

Erik, She does know how I feel, just not to what extent. I am not going to share that with her unless she is out of her relationship and has time to heal.

 

That would be like waiting for Christ.

 

Don't tell me this is not about @ss, it always is. All right, I don't know her, but contrary to popular belief, a girl is willing to spread for the most amazing reasons. And liking a guy is one of the most common; if her moral fibre doesn't allow her to have sex with you while, uh, engaged to another man, why is she making out with you? She's teasing you, can't you see that? She probably wants you to rough her up. (Before I get purged here, let me state I had not hit a woman once in my life and deplore men that do. I'm talking about mental and psychological domination. Not much better, I know...)

 

If you really want this girl, you'll have to take her. And keep taking her or someone else will. Patience will get you nowhere, neither will your boyscout morality.

[stace79]

What will the loss be if I just try it? You will have to take my word for it, that she is not a maneating manipulater, you just have to know her, to know what I mean. Sure she has faults, and I know them, maybe not all of them, but they are things I can live with. I do think she is special. And I do think that she is 100% worth it.

 

The alternative is to sit back and watch her bang her head against the wall for x amount of time.

 

I'm not worried about you getting hurt or manipulated or used. Clearly you have a few bolts loose in your head, so I'm more worried about HER breaking up with her boyfriend (whether he's detrimental to her well being or not) and going to YOU, someone who clearly is only concerned with what YOU want and YOU think. I have yet to hear you say anything positive about accepting her feelings and desires. It's all about you...YOU love her, YOU want her, YOU'RE better than her boyfriend...

 

Clearly, narcissistic. And yes, most people have selfish streaks and we want what's best for us, but not to the complete and total disregard of everyone else's feelings and well being. Narcissism is a truly damaging mental disorder, and nothing to make light of.

[nicki]

Intertwined, is she a challenge to you?

 

If you really care about her, then do what Walk said.

 

Tell her that you are happy to help here, but she is with someone who you don't think is good for her, but it's her choice, and when she is free from her relationship to call you.

 

Doing that will also benefit you. You have dignity at stake. Women don't respect men who hang around waiting for scraps. We know what we are doing when we tease men sexually....not saying she is doing that...but it is power, and that's not something she has in her current relationship.

 

Anyway, why are you getting laid left and right if you are pining away for this woman? Why would any other woman do?

 

I've found that a man in love doesn't want to bang other women. I'm just mentioning this so you think about what you are doing and what you want.

 

I've been an abused woman. I'm telling you that the best thing you can do is be an equal partner. Make her do her share in this situation or you will become her new master....and that wouldn't be good for her. Make her leave him in order to have a relationship with you.

 

Otherwise, what Walk said is true. If she's getting all of her needs met by you while she's with this other guy, then she won't leave him....

 

And, everyone else who has posted has given you good advice. You would be wise to listen, not to insult them, even if you don't follow their advice.

[Erik]

Tell her that you are happy to help here, but she is with someone who you don't think is good for her, but it's her choice, and when she is free from her relationship to call you.

 

Tell her no such thing! She'll laugh in your face.

 

The problem is pretty simple, either you run or you swim. I recommend you run, but if you decide to swim in this hot pool, the best way is to jump in, not crawl. Study her bf, see how he handles her. You don't have to be a bastard to pick up a few tricks.

[Erik]

And to clear up a little misunderstanding. Your love can be the sweetest, most caring and loving person in the world and STILL be a maneating manipulator. It's a part of the abusee's psychology.

[nicki]

Erik, are you saying that he should become like an abuser in order to get this woman?

 

That would make him a user who doesn't care at all about her.

 

If he would model healthy emotional behavior, she might respond to that. If she doesn't, then why would he want to become an abuser in order to appeal to her....that's sick.

 

It's not love then, it's a game.

[alphamale]

Erik, are you saying that he should become like an abuser in order to get this woman?

I think that is what ERIK is saying...

 

That would make him a user who doesn't care at all about her.

but thats the type of man she's attracted to

 

It's not love then, it's a game.

so what? all of life is a game to some extent

[Intertwined]

That would be like waiting for Christ.

 

:lmao:

 

If you really want this girl, you'll have to take her. And keep taking her or someone else will. Patience will get you nowhere, neither will your boyscout morality.

 

Have any suggestions?

 

 

Actually, you guys are getting the g-rated convulted version of what I was going to do before, but I got ahold of myself before the final outcome was too drastic. And no, I wasnt planning on hurting the boyfriend and going out in a blaze of glory

 

I have yet to hear you say anything positive about accepting her feelings and desires. It's all about you...YOU love her, YOU want her, YOU'RE better than her boyfriend...

 

 

The truth of the matter is that I am doing something positive, I have given space and backed off. I am coming to you guys with my thoughts and plans, not blabbing my mouth to her. Im not pushing and hanging, Im not forcing and threatening, at least not in front of her and to her face. And yes, I can be ruthless, manipulative, cunning and all of the negative things you could concieve of when I want something bad enough. Right now, I am just rolling this around in my head.

 

Anyway, why are you getting laid left and right if you are pining away for this woman? Why would any other woman do?

 

Because, as you say, I do have dignity. And I am not going to hang around waiting for scraps. I dont actively seek it out, but hey, when its there for the taking, Im not going to be a fool and turn it down. It just so happens that its there frequently.

 

I've found that a man in love doesn't want to bang other women.

 

Who told you that? Another woman? I still have needs you know. Call me a pig or whatever, but that doesnt mean that I cant screw someone else and be thinking of her. And yes, before any of you start in on a tirade, the other women know that its just for sex and nothing more, and yes I use protection.

 

Your love can be the sweetest, most caring and loving person in the world and STILL be a maneating manipulator.

 

Thats fine too. I will always be one step ahead of her if thats the case and we end up together.

[Erik]

Erik, are you saying that he should become like an abuser in order to get this woman?

 

Yes. The operative word is "like". I'm not saying he should abuse her. In fact, I hope he could make her happy, he sounds like a nice guy. And yes, to some extend he would become a user, but then, many women like that, and not only abused women either.

 

I don't know what "healthy emotional behaviour" is, but if I should ever come across such a strange animal, I'll be sure drop a note at this board. Having a fixation for this girl is not exactly my idea of emotional brilliance, but I've done worse myself and still come out with a good experience. For all parts.

[Erik]

(...) why would he want to become an abuser in order to appeal to her....that's sick.

 

We always model our behaviour to fit what we thinks the other one wants, and if we are lucky, we succeed. If she wants abuse, his behaviour is sick only inasmuch being abused is sick.

[Trialbyfire]

Lust is a powerful tool, especially in the wrong hands. It can be used to drive a man insane.

 

This interaction is not healthy. She has no friends for a reason, regardless of previous abuse. The more I read, the more I'm wondering if she's using you to offset her lack of power within her existing relationship. Her guy is abusive, therefore she abuses you by continuing to keep you on a short leash. Imagine the charge she must be getting by having a guy want her so badly?

 

Who will win this battle?

[Intertwined]

Having a fixation for this girl is not exactly my idea of emotional brilliance, but I've done worse myself and still come out with a good experience.

 

Id have to say the same for myself as well.

 

Don't tell me this is not about @ss, it always is.

 

 

Sure, Im hot for her, of course I would love to get in her panties and show her exactly what I mean when I say I want to be inside her, but its not only her body parts that get me going. Its her mind. She is sexy as hell, and its partly her mind that is responsible for that.

 

if her moral fibre doesn't allow her to have sex with you while, uh, engaged to another man, why is she making out with you

 

I seduce her and provoke her. It makes her wet and wanting more. She just has more control than most.

 

Make her leave him in order to have a relationship with you.

 

How do you suggest I do that, Nicki?

[Intertwined]

This interaction is not healthy. She has no friends for a reason

 

He doesnt let her have friends. Even other women friends.

 

The more I read, the more I'm wondering if she's using you to offset her lack of power within her existing relationship. Her guy is abusive, therefore she abuses you by continuing to keep you on a short leash.

 

I could care less what she thinks she is doing with me as far as attempting to gain control with me. Its not happening. As I said before, you will just have to take my word for it, she is not abusing me, using me, manipulating me, or any other sort of armchair psycology. It was I who orchestrated this to begin with. Even if she is, I dont care. I want her still. That can be dealt with later.

 

Imagine the charge she must be getting by having a guy want her so badly?

 

 

Yeah, now imagine that charge mutiplied by 1000, and you will get what it feels like to know her and be her friend.

[whichwayisup]

I seduce her and provoke her. It makes her wet and wanting more. She just has more control than most.

 

Controlling the situation. All you're doing is confusing her, stressing her out.

 

I don't know you don't believe this, but she cheats with you, she'll cheat on you. Fast forward 2 years from now, some other guy is trying to get into her panties, doing what you are doing to her. And, don't think it won't happen. She's letting you fool around with her, so don't think she won't do that to you one day IF you two end up together....

[Erik]

Duh! She's the one controlling the situation. You should be more insistent. Don't leave the responsibility for the move to her by 'seducing and provoking' her, take control. She wants that.

[stace79]

Not to be offensive, but Erik you sound like the type of guy who would say "the girl wanted it" after she was raped. =/

[nicki]

I understand the little early courtship games, lbut I don't undertand games that undermine good character. It is not a game to enable someone else to have dysfunctional behavior while with you. I wouldn't trick a drug user by acting like a drug dealer.

 

If someone ACTS like an abuser, they are being abusive. Now, if you mean to dislay some traits of a strong man with backbone, then that is different. That can be done in a kind, calm assertive way....(emotionally healthy behavior.)

 

It would make her want you more if you would not engage in anything physical with her until she is "free." That means telling her that you don't feel right doing that while she is with another man....in other words, you are being calmly assertive.

 

You might be fooling yourself here if you think you are in control. She knows what she is doing....hell, I've done it myself. The promise of sex is a very strong incentive to stay in the game.

 

So, if you really want her, and you want her to be a healthy equal partner, then you don't play dysfunctional games with her.

 

If she can't play kissy-poo with you and get an ego boost, what do you think she'll do?

 

An alpha is right, she might be attracted to abusive men, but MAYBE she likes strong confident men who won't treat her like **** while standing up for their own rights.

 

If she does still want abusive guys, why would you want to be involved with that situation, or to even further her dysfunction by acting like the very guys who hurt her and keep her passive?

 

Don't you want the best for her, for her to grow stronger? However that can be achieved should be your goal if you really care about her.

 

I knew my abusive ex was getting better when he told me that he wanted me to be happy, even if that meant I was happier without him. It was a HUGE thing for him to be unselfish while he still loved and wanted me.

 

So, it's important to balance your needs with hers, and see if this a relationship that is good for BOTH of you.

[Erik]

I'm the kind of guy who says that if the girl wants it, it isn't rape.

[Erik]

Allright, the last one came off a little wrong. No, I have nothing but contempt for rapists. I'm not suggesting he tie her down or hit her, but she's got a psychological barrier that can't let her take responsibility for initiating sex. What I suggest, (but what Intertwined doesn't believe anyway) is that he needs to force this barrier, she must feel she has only acceded to his stronger will, not given in to base temptation. Not all girls respond (or rather, succumb) to the velvet-treatment. He loves this girl, he would never hurt her, so if she felt like she was being raped, I'm sure he would get the message.

[Erik]

I realise the ice is thin, because the problem is of course to realise if what you are doing is rape. But you can't draw firm boundaries, reality is not defined by law.

 

Intertwined, a tip, though; you say her body come alive in your hands. If you try to force her and that body goes dead for more than, say 20 seconds, you should probably back off. (But it won't be a problem, since you prefer to coax and wait until she takes the initiative.)

[whichwayisup]

Start another thread if you all are going to talk about rape. Don't hi jack this guy's thread and turn it into a heated dicussion....

[Erik]

I was not talking about rape, I'm sorry you don't understand that.

 

But all right, the guy will not believe me, and he's probably better of without her anyway, so I rest my case.

[Sand&Water]

Reply:

 

The woman needs to be taught a lesson! Seriously.

 

Back off. Stop with the physical intimacy. She needs a wake up call -not a smart woman to be lounging around all over the place.

 

She is taking advantage of both situations -and at the same time not making an effort to get out of this abusive relationship. She seems almost like a dead vegetable.

 

Teach her lesson -and the lesson is to leave her alone. She should make it out alone -or else she can rot away with him for as long as she wants.

 

Oh and believe it or not she is most likely causing a considerable chunk of abusive controlling tactics in the relationship -not everything is his doings.

 

Sand&Water

[Intertwined]

Controlling the situation. All you're doing is confusing her, stressing her out.

 

 

wwiu, on this, you and I agree. I noticed the more I pushed her, the more she turned to ice and backed off, and tried to ignore me. Since then, I have made it more comfortable for her, by backing off.

 

The woman needs to be taught a lesson! Seriously.

 

Why does she need to be taught a lesson? Because its not happening to you? Are you a little jealous or what? Your post comes off as angry and hostile towards her and you dont even know her. You have no idea what she is like or what she has been through.

 

 

Oh and believe it or not she is most likely causing a considerable chunk of abusive controlling tactics in the relationship -not everything is his doings.

 

Thats a pretty hefty accusation, to say that she is causing a considerable chunk of his abusive nature. I have witnessed things he has done first hand without him or her even knowing I was there. I can honestly say the things I have seen and heard have definately not been from her provoking him to do it. What an unkind thing to say coming from a woman.

 

People, forget it. She is not manipulating me. I am a grown man. It was my choice to get involved in this. I knew exactly what this was about and I started off with the intent of conquering. She had no way of knowing that our friendship was going to take this route. I gently manipulated her and now she is reacting to what I already awoke inside of her. I cant really blame her for responding to something that I set up in the first place and knew was going to happen.

 

It would make her want you more if you would not engage in anything physical with her until she is "free." That means telling her that you don't feel right doing that while she is with another man....

 

Nicki, you are right, and this is an option I thought about. If I did say that to her, she would be fine with that. She isnt the one who provokes the phsical interactions anyway.

 

This might sound a bit undermining but, I will tell you what I did. I started off becoming physical with her, to which she instantly rejected. I went about it slowly, until it is where it is at now. As of now, we have a connection that is deeper due to me establishing a physical bond with her. I did all of this with the intent of backing away from her at the opportune time, knowing she will react strongly to that. So, I guess in a sense, I am establishing intimacy with her, to make her feel as if she wants me so she can feel safe. I know, I am decietful, but I want her.

 

Erik. Yours is a very strong and cunning mind.