oh for cripes sake I am sick of it!

[a4a]

a4a your qoute about love got me thinking.

 

Most of these frigid women are mothers. How much do they sacrifice for thier children? They probably do a lot for thier kids out of love. Stuff they don't nessecarily want to. And yet they can't take 5 minutes to blow thier husbands and make hubby's day?

 

I thought of that as well..... I guess it got lost between phone calls.

 

Quite true.

[Trialbyfire]

But when I HAVE done both - really done both - you also dismiss that.

 

Maybe instead of siding with these stay-at-home mothers who are so dissatisfied, since you've never actually been on either side of this problem, and cannot speak with any kind of authority, you should instead express to them how lucky they actually are.

 

They are blessed to have someone love them and their children enough to take on the full burden of support and give them the joy and honor to be able to spend each and every day with their children. To be the person who has the special privilege of molding that child's life experience. To be the person who gets to see their first smiles, hear their first words, experience their first steps. They have the exquisite pleasure of teaching their children to speak, to read, to share those precious moments that will never return, no matter how dearly wish they could. Those mothers are blessed.

 

Instead of complaining, maybe they should consider just how much of their children's lives the fathers miss. Not because they don't care, but because they have to earn the money to enable that blessing.

Some of these women have given up lucrative careers so they are able to do watch that first step and see the first smile. But...it's a symbiotic relationship within a marriage and within a family. If everyone gives their portion of the relationship, it works well. It's easy to blame it on the woman because she withholds something that's tangible. The only problem is that what the man withholds is intangible and difficult to quantify.

 

This discussion pushes me towards further sympathizing with the stay-at-home mothers with negligent husbands.

[hotgurl]

Some of these women have given up lucrative careers so they are able to do watch that first step and see the first smile. But...it's a symbiotic relationship within a marriage and within a family. If everyone gives their portion of the relationship, it works well. It's easy to blame it on the woman because she withholds something that's tangible. The only problem is that what the man withholds is intangible and difficult to quantify.

 

This discussion pushes me towards further sympathizing with the stay-at-home mothers with negligent husbands.

 

But this is not the situation you see a lot on LS. Mostly you see husbands who try thier best to meet thier wives needs and get no sex at all. So the husbands needs are being negelected.

 

I think it's terribly unfair to make someone promise life long fidelity than withhold sex.

[a4a]

You know what if a man offered me the world I could share my life with him, but if I was not in love with him there is no way I would want to have sex with him.

 

I love sex.....I may have casual sex with the pool boy I don't love, but I would not see myself having sex with a LTR/M I do not love because of guilt. It would seem dirty to me, like I was a prostitute.

 

hummmmm.. interesting thoughts my brain just dribbled out.

 

wow that is frucked up. :lmao:

[Trialbyfire]

But this is not the situation you see a lot on LS. Mostly you see husbands who try thier best to meet thier wives needs and get no sex at all. So the husbands needs are being negelected.

 

I think it's terribly unfair to make someone promise life long fidelity than withhold sex.

Most of what I've seen appears solely from the perspective of the man.

[Guest]

I know my side...I wamt to learn the other's side. And when I read of so many women here who love sex, I wonder where the ones are that don't love sex. These are the ones I want to talk to. These are the ones who I want to PM me. These are the ones who I want to tell me why I have a problem getting through to my wife what our problem is. And if we have a problem that I need to fix, then tell me so that I can fix it, so all is better.

 

 

This is what I wonder also. I hear men complain about lack of sex all the time (not my guy *wink*) but I don't know any women who absolutely never want sex with their husbands. I know some that are happier with less sex, but none that are happy with zero sex.

 

FWIW, I agree with the original poster. It wouldn't take me two hands to count the number of times I've turned my husband down, and that's during 15 years of marriage. Sometimes I'm not neccessarily in the mood, so I tell him to convince me, and he always does. Maybe he is just good at reading my moods and doesn't make advances when I'm REALLY not in the mood, but I really don't think that's it. Not to say we haven't had down times, notably during pregnancy and shortly after childbirth, but overall, I ssimply don't understand the 'frigid wife' thing. It's something I've wondered about quite a bit, I admit that I have doubted that it really exists. I thought men were simply exagerating, perhaps not....

[Moose]

But when I HAVE done both - really done both - you also dismiss that.

 

Maybe instead of siding with these stay-at-home mothers who are so dissatisfied, since you've never actually been on either side of this problem, and cannot speak with any kind of authority, you should instead express to them how lucky they actually are.

 

They are blessed to have someone love them and their children enough to take on the full burden of support and give them the joy and honor to be able to spend each and every day with their children. To be the person who has the special privilege of molding that child's life experience. To be the person who gets to see their first smiles, hear their first words, experience their first steps. They have the exquisite pleasure of teaching their children to speak, to read, to share those precious moments that will never return, no matter how dearly wish they could. Those mothers are blessed.

 

Instead of complaining, maybe they should consider just how much of their children's lives the fathers miss. Not because they don't care, but because they have to earn the money to enable that blessing.

I hate to play devil's advocate here.....but seriously.....STAHMs do need, and deserve something more than the mondain repetitious cave keepin' and child rearing chores.

 

Even a 10 minute adult conversation is worth more than doing the dishes for a whole week to some women.....

 

It's nothing to grab the trash on your way out to the garage, (or, "family avoidance center", as I dubbed mine....lol)......

 

Loading your own dishes in the dish washer doesn't take much effort either.....

 

Even turning your, "skid marked", underwear inside out isn't that big of deal, just an extra twist of the wrist......(for the record, I usually don't have skid marks, but did pick this up from another thread...lol).....

 

It's nothing to open your pant drawer and drop the neatly folded jeans into place instead of leaving them on the bed for your wife to do it......after all, she's the one who folded them for you.....

 

Being the King of your castle is more enjoyable when your subjects don't feel like, "subjects"......

[silktricks]

Some of these women have given up lucrative careers so they are able to do watch that first step and see the first smile. But...it's a symbiotic relationship within a marriage and within a family. If everyone gives their portion of the relationship, it works well. It's easy to blame it on the woman because she withholds something that's tangible. The only problem is that what the man withholds is intangible and difficult to quantify.

 

This discussion pushes me towards further sympathizing with the stay-at-home mothers with negligent husbands.

 

yup, some women have given up a lot to be able to watch that first step. More power to 'em. But give it up they did. And it was their choice to do so. If they are now angry about that choice don't take it out on their husbands for not helping around the house. Those husbands probably helped around the house before the child was born.

 

Maybe some communication about roles and responsibilities is in order, but refusing sex is NOT.

 

Now, TBF, you and I are never but never going to agree on this. That's OK, different strokes and all that. Wishing you a good one.

 

(wishing you some happy sex, too)

[hotgurl]

Most of what I've seen appears solely from the perspective of the man.

 

True but the perspective you have is from your women friends. So perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

The guy feels neglected and sexually unsaistified and the wife feels negelected and resentful but neither one know what the other one thinks because they don't talk to each other.

 

In reality if you have a problem in your relationship you have a responsiblity to talk to your so about it and try to fix it.

[silktricks]

Most of what I've seen appears solely from the perspective of the man.

 

Ahem - I'll have you know that my husband really truly believes I'm a woman, and I won't have you telling him any differently!!

[Moose]

I love sex.....I may have casual sex with the pool boy I don't love, but I would not see myself having sex with a LTR/M I do not love because of guilt. It would seem dirty to me, like I was a prostitute.

LTR/M? Sorry for my stupidity....

[silktricks]

LTR/M? Sorry for my stupidity....

 

long term relationship/ marriage

[Moose]

The guy feels neglected and sexually unsaistified and the wife feels negelected and resentful but neither one know what the other one thinks because they don't talk to each other.

Emasculated is probably a more accurate word.

 

I don't know if I'm speaking for the whole male race here......but to me....I don't feel that, "neglected" is the proper term. I can survive without sex.....but I wouldn't feel like a man without it.....

[a4a]

I hate to play devil's advocate here.....but seriously.....STAHMs do need, and deserve something more than the mondain repetitious cave keepin' and child rearing chores.

 

Even a 10 minute adult conversation is worth more than doing the dishes for a whole week to some women.....

 

It's nothing to grab the trash on your way out to the garage, (or, "family avoidance center", as I dubbed mine....lol)......

 

Loading your own dishes in the dish washer doesn't take much effort either.....

 

Even turning your, "skid marked", underwear inside out isn't that big of deal, just an extra twist of the wrist......(for the record, I usually don't have skid marks, but did pick this up from another thread...lol).....

 

It's nothing to open your pant drawer and drop the neatly folded jeans into place instead of leaving them on the bed for your wife to do it......after all, she's the one who folded them for you.....

 

Being the King of your castle is more enjoyable when your subjects don't feel like, "subjects"......

 

oh my god I do love you Moose....... my H doesn't do anything like that around here!

 

geeze now I gotta bust the tater out on his ass again! :p You planted thoughts in my head about how and what he should do!

 

 

 

Now it makes sense why I am the king of the castle..... :lmao:

[hotgurl]

Emasculated is probably a more accurate word.

 

I don't know if I'm speaking for the whole male race here......but to me....I don't feel that, "neglected" is the proper term. I can survive without sex.....but I wouldn't feel like a man without it.....

 

It such a shame too. You seem to be so sweet to your wife and you seem to make your marriage a priority. I would faint with excitment if my SO ever got me a trip to a day spa.

 

I would hate to make a man I love feel emasculated. And if I did so unknowingly I would want him to tell me so I coudl fix my behavior.

[silktricks]

I hate to play devil's advocate here.....but seriously.....STAHMs do need, and deserve something more than the mondain repetitious cave keepin' and child rearing chores.

 

Even a 10 minute adult conversation is worth more than doing the dishes for a whole week to some women.....

 

It's nothing to grab the trash on your way out to the garage, (or, "family avoidance center", as I dubbed mine....lol)......

 

Loading your own dishes in the dish washer doesn't take much effort either.....

 

Even turning your, "skid marked", underwear inside out isn't that big of deal, just an extra twist of the wrist......(for the record, I usually don't have skid marks, but did pick this up from another thread...lol).....

 

It's nothing to open your pant drawer and drop the neatly folded jeans into place instead of leaving them on the bed for your wife to do it......after all, she's the one who folded them for you.....

 

Being the King of your castle is more enjoyable when your subjects don't feel like, "subjects"......

 

And I agree with all of that. What I don't agree with is the attitude that some stay-at-home mom's that I know have, which is that the man who has been at work all day, probably spent 2 hours commuting on top of that, should now do the laundry, mop the floors, cook dinner and wash dishes, because she's been busy taking care of the baby all day. AND if he doesn't, then he ain't gettin' none tonight.

 

That's just not right.

 

(since unfortunately, my daughter happens to be one of those stay-at-home mom's with that attitude - well, close to that attitude - I've gotta admit that I have a bit of an attitude myself.)

[Trialbyfire]

yup, some women have given up a lot to be able to watch that first step. More power to 'em. But give it up they did. And it was their choice to do so. If they are now angry about that choice don't take it out on their husbands for not helping around the house. Those husbands probably helped around the house before the child was born.

 

Maybe some communication about roles and responsibilities is in order, but refusing sex is NOT.

 

Now, TBF, you and I are never but never going to agree on this. That's OK, different strokes and all that. Wishing you a good one.

 

(wishing you some happy sex, too)

Yes, different strokes for each person. It's all about spin.

 

Since I'm currently single due to my pending divorce from a serial cheater, no sex for awhile, lol. This is my time to make myself a whole person so I'm focusing on my consulting business where my office is at home and my work hours are my own. I'm loving it since I don't have any responsibilities to anyone but myself.

 

Btw, I don't personally believe in withholding sex or anything else from a relationship. You see it all the time though. It appears to be a form of equalization.

 

True but the perspective you have is from your women friends. So perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

The guy feels neglected and sexually unsaistified and the wife feels negelected and resentful but neither one know what the other one thinks because they don't talk to each other.

 

In reality if you have a problem in your relationship you have a responsiblity to talk to your so about it and try to fix it.

True. Too bad not all women are assertive or can be, in every situation. I've used the same arguments on the g/fs that I've mentioned and feel that they are so wishy-washy with not asserting themselves. It's like they feel powerless in their relationships, because they're reliant on their spouses and know that the children come first. I've honestly never understood this attitude because I've always believed that you are as self-reliant as you let yourself become but this discussion has helped me understand them a little better. Society doesn't appear to have much sympathy with a woman caught in this plight.

[hotgurl]

And I agree with all of that. What I don't agree with is the attitude that some stay-at-home mom's that I know have, which is that the man who has been at work all day, probably spent 2 hours commuting on top of that, should now do the laundry, mop the floors, cook dinner and wash dishes, because she's been busy taking care of the baby all day. AND if he doesn't, then he ain't gettin' none tonight.

 

That's just not right.

 

(since unfortunately, my daughter happens to be one of those stay-at-home mom's with that attitude - well, close to that attitude - I've gotta admit that I have a bit of an attitude myself.)

 

If I was a STAHM I would fully expect to cook clean, do laundry.etc...

 

I would like him to help do the evening dishes with me and spend time in the evening with the kids. But mostly I would want some adult conversations.

 

I do think it is important so STAHM to get sme adult interaction and a break from the kids once in a while as well.

[tanbark813]

Hence why it was defined in the beginning. Have you never debated before? Taken a side you don't really agree with to begin to understand what the other side is experiencing? I find it very enlightening. Many of the arguments applied against my counters have been the same ones I've used with other people, on the other side of the discussion.

 

But this isn't what you're doing. Your bitterness about your divorce is manifesting in your posts through blaming everything on men. That hardly seems like an enlightening path, but good luck with that.

[Trialbyfire]

But this isn't what you're doing. Your bitterness about your divorce is manifesting in your posts through blaming everything on men. That hardly seems like an enlightening path, but good luck with that.

Yahhhh, finally, I get to be a bitter woman!!!

 

Nah, it's just one spin based on real discussions with friends.

[Erik]

All right, nobody else wants to say it out loud, it seems I have to:

 

Moose, the reason your woman has no lust for you, is because you behave like a girl.

[Moose]

All right, nobody else wants to say it out loud, it seems I have to:

 

Moose, the reason your woman has no lust for you, is because you behave like a girl.

Interesting.....

[Erik]

Yes. I am very impressed by your love and respect and effort, and I daresay many, MANY women dream of a husband like you. But you must not cater to her every need, not act like her mother, you defuse the gender-tension.

 

Don't get me wrong, but you've got to be a bit of a selfish bastard sometimes. It will make you both happier.

[silktricks]

If I was a STAHM I would fully expect to cook clean, do laundry.etc...

 

I would like him to help do the evening dishes with me and spend time in the evening with the kids. But mostly I would want some adult conversations.

 

I do think it is important so STAHM to get sme adult interaction and a break from the kids once in a while as well.

 

Amen to that!! That was the hardest part by far of being a stay-at-home mom. The only thing I could say after while was conversation at 4 year-old level.

[Erik]

To all the stay at home moms. I'm from Denmark. Here, being a STAHM is a stigmatum worse than unemployment is for a man. It means you are stupid and worthless and unable to hack it in real life. Denmark's got the highest frequency for working women in the world.

 

That means, that typically, a girl is expected to bring home her share of the bread AND do the cooking, the cleaning, the kids and all the other stuff men are smart enough to let women do. And forget about maids, they are perhaps for the upper 5% income bracket.

 

The economy is dependent on all hands manning the galley oars, i.e. you need two full time jobs to afford babies. It is the norm that kids are sent to a run down day care center 9 hrs. every day, Danish psychologists admonish STAHM's that their kids are suffering socially, if they are kept away from the day care center.

 

I think you should consider yourself lucky. Raising your kids is the most important thing you will ever do, and many people do not get that chance. And remember this, for all the bitching about men: the hand that rocks the cradle, rocks the world. We are what you made us, and if the world doesn't rock, you are the closest ones to change that.