understanding mm's unreliability

[Woggle]

If I ever get divorced which is highly unlikely I will keep my wedding ring on. It will get me so many dates from what I see on this board.

[Erik]

Dignityback, You either listen to the Green Eyed One or end the affair, anything else would most likely hurt you and continue to do so. And hurt your MM too, even if he doesn't really realise.

[Erik]

Good thinking, Woggle. I always go for the wedding bands. I am shocked by your lack of morale and honesty, though...

[Woggle]

Good thinking, Woggle. I always go for the wedding bands. I am shocked by your lack of morale and honesty, though...

 

I would never date a married woman and I will never cheat on my wife but some cheap sex from women would think I am married is not out of the question. It would be fun to break their hearts when I tell them the truth also.

[Erik]

Gosh, I thought I was cruel! If a woman did that to me, I'd need years of therapy.

[dignityback]

Dignityback, You either listen to the Green Eyed One or end the affair, anything else would most likely hurt you and continue to do so. And hurt your MM too, even if he doesn't really realise.

 

 

How on earth can the mm be hurt?

He never appears hurt to me.

How can I talk to him when he doesn't call me.

 

I do not intend to make contact with him and humiliate myself.

He knows my number--what is he scared of for god's sake?

[Salicious Crumb]

Is YOUR M a beautiful thing? From what you've written around here, I think NOT...

 

No, it isn't..thats why I speak from experience...people seem to think it is beautiful when their MM/MW cheats on their spouse, then leaves their marriage and kids to be with them.

[Salicious Crumb]

Salicious, an affair with a MM (or MW, from my perspective) is an incredible powerful thing. It can be immensely ugly or immensely beautiful.

 

Nothing about kids having to deal with a divorce and a parent that cheated on the other is beautiful

[Erik]

How on earth can the mm be hurt?

He never appears hurt to me.

How can I talk to him when he doesn't call me.

 

I do not intend to make contact with him and humiliate myself.

He knows my number--what is he scared of for god's sake?

 

I don't know how long you've been seeing each other, and I don't know your MM. As have been pointed out, his family will always take priority over you, and that is the way it should be.

 

Affairs with married people can be very intense and that means there's a considerable risk you emotions will run away with you or your MM. And no, if your MM is a decent person, hurting you is probably a dreadful though to him, but his obligation to his family will always mess things up, like when he doesn't call you. If he is not a decent person, not calling you is a control strategy, a way to chain you to him.

 

Assuming he is a decent guy, he is scared that your relationship will hurt his family. I can understand why you don't see it like that, but ask any woman that has lived with an OW if hurt is a possibility.

[Erik]

Hurt is almost always involved in these kind of affairs. It's pre-programmed into the whole setup. The only way to avoid hurt, is to keep it very short and hope the W does not notice. Keeping it short means that it is your responsibility to break up at the right time, your MM will never break up, because he has it all, a family and a mistress. I'm not saying you should break up, just telling you that he never will, no matter if he calls you or not.

[whichwayisup]

Pricilia, I have been with him for nearly 5 years with some periods of NC in between

 

Don't waste another day, another month or a YEAR on this MM. 5 years you've had an affair with him and he hasn't left his wife. Doesn't that tell you something? IF he really wanted to leave his wife, divorce and be with you, he would have done that already. After 5 years, you're the OW. Nothing more than that. Sorry, gotta be harsh here, but open your eyes! You're wasting energy, your love, your heart on a man who will NEVER be yours.

 

I assume you want to be married one day, start your own family, have children, build a life with someone? If you stay the OW, YOU are the one who will miss out in life. And, you can't blame the MM for that - He'll take what he can get from you, as long as you're willing and able to put up with his crap he throws your way. Hope that makes sense to you.

 

If you end it, tell him it's not enough anymore, you are sick of hurting, sick of being the OW in his life, that you deserve better and a man who will love ONLY you, say goodbye and NEVER speak or see him again - Stick to that and you can have the life you probably want when you're ready to date again. Get some therapy to help you cope and deal with your pain so you can go on without him.

 

The ball really is in your court.

[VinaAmez]

I personal don't understand this beauty thing.

 

There's nothing beautiful IMO about someone cheating on their W or H. Either I missed the memo on that one or I'm REALLY closed-minded because I don't see beauty in it.

[Erik]

Uhm, five years!?! Get out of there. He is taking you for granted, and being taken for granted is W's job. She probably knows, but has decided to ignore it.

[Erik]

VinaAmez, you are not close-minded, you are a decent person. Big difference. The reason betrayal is so exhilarating seems obvious to me, but the feeling resembles that of your first love. That's why so many people go for the Wedded Ones, their exhilaration is powerful stuff, contageous.

[Erik]

... and it sounds to me, dignityback, that your MM is not as exhilarated as he once was, so there's really nothing more you want from him, unless you want outright to replace W, but that is a VERY slim chance after five years.

[VinaAmez]

 

So I have been wondering if I could ever be truly happy with him. He is so complex but definitely a manipulator and am tiring of his games.

 

You are probably right, the best thing to do is not to show that I am upset/annoyed by him not calling me, as that is what he wants. In the past I have always just resumed the PA when he wants, but this time I am not. He is getting annoyed and I am standing my ground.

He doesn't respect me or my feelings so why should I risk further humiliation and feed his ego, by talking to him when he won't listen and might resent it anyway. Anyway it makes me look desperate too. If he wanted to talk he knows my number.

 

The best thing to do IMO is to leave him. After 5 years don't you think that he would have ended his marriage? Don't you think if he REALLY wanted to be with you the way you want him too, he would have done it by now?

 

You are the OW and you fulfill the needs that his W doesn't.

 

He doesn't care. He's going to do what he wants, when he wants, and use you how he wants. And he knows he can do it because he's getting away with it and has been doing it for the past 5 years.

[Erik]

Nothing about kids having to deal with a divorce and a parent that cheated on the other is beautiful

 

No. That is the ugly part.

[whichwayisup]

He doesn't care. He's going to do what he wants, when he wants, and use you how he wants. And he knows he can do it because he's getting away with it and has been doing it for the past 5 years.

 

The only thing that will be hurt, will be his ego when you get the strength to really end it once and for all. And stay in NC for good.

 

You are the OW and you fulfill the needs that his W doesn't.

 

I agree 100%.

[dignityback]

Hurt is almost always involved in these kind of affairs. It's pre-programmed into the whole setup. The only way to avoid hurt, is to keep it very short and hope the W does not notice. Keeping it short means that it is your responsibility to break up at the right time, your MM will never break up, because he has it all, a family and a mistress. I'm not saying you should break up, just telling you that he never will, no matter if he calls you or not.

 

 

Erik, yes I know what you mean.

He told me that he had one short lived affair before me, but he actually told her it was over.

 

Now, with me he won't say those words,(It is over)-- it's all "I'll call you soon" crap. At first I thought he didn't want to hurt me but I doubt that now. I think it is his way of trying to keep me on a hook and not move on.

It seems to me he was happy with the affair until his wife probably let him know she knew there was someone else, and I of course started wanting to question things because of the change in his behaviour--more erratic than usual. He is the one who doesn't want to discuss it, maybe he doesn't want me to say "It's over".

 

Howver WWIU, you are right, he isn't leaving home, and when things start closing in, then he retreats to the safety of his family.

 

I think I am going to do nothing and IF he ever phones I will tell him that I just don't want it any more and he should work on his marriage.

Is that dignified enough?

 

I still don't understand why he doesn't avoid me, as he definitely waited for me in the post office. Maybe he just hopes that I'll say "get in the car and let's head back to my place". I am not behaving as I normally do when things have been strained between us. Maybe it's just a sadistic game to him. Who knows--he might not know himself.

[Erik]

I will tell him that I just don't want it any more and he should work on his marriage. Is that dignified enough?

 

That not only dignified, that's goddamn perfect! "Work on your marriage"

 

Stay strong. If you have decided, be adamant, don't let him drag you into conversations. It's the best way for both of you. Remember, there's plenty of MM's out there. (Just kiddin')

 

"He told me that he had one short lived affair before me, but he actually told her it was over."

 

Sounds like playing to me. No man would admit that his last GF was the ballsier.

[dignityback]

Eric,

He said he split from former OW who was married, because she talked about how horrible her husband was and he got fed up with it.

I don't buy it now, because she would have been ideal, already married, not too demanding and not expecting him to leave his marriage.

 

When you said about mm not wanting to say it is over--is that to keep the OW on a string and so keep their options open. Or don't they want to hurt the OW any more than necessary so they let her down gently. Just curious?

[Erik]

When you said about mm not wanting to say it is over--is that to keep the OW on a string and so keep their options open. Or don't they want to hurt the OW any more than necessary so they let her down gently. Just curious?

 

It could be both. It depends how jaded he is. Some men are very deliberate about the string and use it remorselessly; this is a general strategy for both males and females of any persuation, not just MM's.

 

It is one of the cruelest trick in the book, because even if the girl realises exactly what is happening, it is EXTREMELY hard to do something about it. In Denmark, we call it the yo-yo. Alas, people very often do it unconsciously, it's what happens in most unrequited loves, especially with young, insecure people. It works like this:

 

The beloved is afraid to hurt the lover by telling him she feels nothing anymore, and keeps seeing the lover under the condition they are 'just friends'. The lover misunderstands this, thinks he has a chance, and keeps seeing the beloved, keeps making advances. The advances are being turned down, a fight ensues and the lover goes away heartbroken. Next day, the beloved is feeling bad, she really cares for him still, she calls the lover to make amends for being cruel and the game recommences. For every cycle, the beloved becomes more irritated, and the lover more in love. After a few months of this, he is an annoying little pest with no self confidence and no free will and she hardly cares to hide her contempt for him anymore, he just keeps sucking up any amount of abuse anyway.

[Erik]

In the end, the guy accepts to act the 'just friends'-part, and the girl is happy to believe he finally saw sense. But all that desperate love is still in there, and the girl can feel that, even if she mistakes it for intense friendship, he becomes her 'soul mate'. The girl become addicted to the attention, admiration and close emotional bond to her 'soul mate' and want to be with him a lot. She confides in him, tell him about her lovers, ask him advice when her lover is using her as a doormat, cries at his shoulder. The 'Just Friend' is hanging in, hoping that all the affection he showers her with, will make her love him. But the woman sees him as just one of the girls, because he is acting the role, and she will never be anything but repulsed at the thought of sleeping with her, uh, him.

 

'Just friends' are the sorriest, most unhappy creatures in the world. Don't become one, tell this guy to go fix his family and get a new phone number.

 

Hmm.... Girls rarely become 'Just Friends', but tell him goodbye anyway.

[dignityback]

Erik,

 

Thanks for the insight.

 

I can see that when he makes it so clear that he still wants sex with me,

(he actually pulled a bit of fluff from the front of my T shirt), and I keep making it clear that I will talk to him/have a cup of coffee but that's all, he is getting more annoyed. The first time I saw him he had just had his hair cut and he ran his fingers through it as if to say look at me. I just said "oh wonderful" and looked away--not the ego boost he was looking for.

I also find him looking me up and down rather pathetic, and I am just not responding. It is like being around a dirty old man. It has just dawned on me reading your post, that he probably feels somewhat humiliated that I have not caved in and resumed the sexual affair. I have never turned him down sexually before. He thinks he is god's gift.

 

This is why he isn't calling me. He will only call if he thinks sex is on the agenda, and as I am not giving him any encouragement, then he isn't bothering. He knows I am serious this time.

All makes perfect sense now.

[IpAncA]

You fulfill his sex need and from what you wrote, wants nothing else.