Is there any hope for us? (LONG)

[wife_left_me]

EL, Please listen to Lady Jane. You are letting your emotions and anger get the better of you. You've been trying to reconcile with your wife and I know it hurts but you need to take a few deep breaths and let it pass. You need to realize you cannot control your wife actions nor do you want to. The only way your marriage would have worked was if your wife came back to you on her own. She had made her choice so don't give her the satisfaction of knowing she has hurt you, you are just giving her the upper hand. Move on without her and remember how she has made you feel so under no circumstance will you take her back. She doesn't deserve you anyways.

[El-Producto]

I'm actually glad this happened... now I feel like I really can move on, and I don't need her. Man, what a relief.

 

Thank you everyone for the support. I will need lots of it.

[Trialbyfire]

Print out all the emails for evidence in a situation of legal action. Do not tip your hand. If you had an agreement of no contact, you've in good faith done your part of the verbal agreement and she is not abiding. First priority is your children and you. She doesn't matter at this moment because she's not according the family unit any respect at all.

[AHIWON]

Hang in there El-P, try to stay as calm as possible. Stay strong for you, don't give her any consideration anymore. She doesn't matter. Don't bother trying to make her feel bad with the emails. Selfish people cheat so she wouldn't feel bad anyway. She doesn't care about anyone other than herself.

[Gunny376]

Its probally too late ~ but I wouldn't show her the e-mails, nor let her know about the key logger ~ that a source of good intell. What you need to do is as LJ said ~ cool, calm and collected. Act as if everything is Jim Dandy and just fine. That you're still attempting reconcilation.

 

Meanwhile get your attorny and get your ducks all lined up in a row. You've got to keep your head about you Man. I know it hurts like Hell, and makes you madder than Hell, but t you've got to show some self discipline and self restraint. You've got to control your emotions and not let your emotins control you.

 

Her bad-mouthing you is just her way of justifying and rationalzation with the OM the rightesness of the on-going affair. Its part of the inheirient sickness of the affair. Indeed its one of the sympthoms. Rarely are affairs about the BS, but about the insecurity of the WS.

 

Two things drive people the most. The need for acceptance, and the fear of rejection. You're swinging back and forth very radically between the two, as is she.

 

You've got to understand EP, you're the man in the situtatoin, and she can lie her ass off, and you're going to be "guilty until proven innocent. You've got a lot riding on all of this ~ yet. And, there's a right way and a wrong way to do this.

 

I can absolutely predict that the only thing that showing her the e-mails is that you're going to piss her off, and she's going to call you a SOB, (or some derivitive of such) and re-inforce in her mind the justification for her actions in conducting the affair.

[El-Producto]

Well, it's over as far as reconcilliation goes. My wife is continuing to see the OM, and has no plans to stop. She really doesn't have any feelings for me, and she stated that quite clearly in our last session. I am starting to understand however, the reasons for it. It has a lot to do with the speed of our courtship and having kids. She was a kid at the time, and has been "trapped" in this relationship, but didn't have the self-esteem, confidence to get out earlier. She feels very guilty about it, and has let me know. She loves me as a best friend, and wants me to help her through her self discovery.

 

I'm not doing so well on the other hand. The affair, and it's details are consuming me. I know it's not about me, but the jealousy and hurt are immense. I've never felt so terrible in all my life. But what my counselor has told me, is that I need to realize that I can't control anything she does, and I need to take care of myself. Something that I've been preaching, but haven't really been doing.

 

Last night was a bad night. My wife hadn't returned home by 9pm, so I started to worry, as I was to work today. I called around the usual suspects and nobody had heard or seen from her. I figured she had just gone out with some friends or something. I woke up at 2am and she still wasn' here. It's really unlike her not to touch base, so I got freaked. Deep in my mind, I was suspecting she was at the OM's house. But the ER nurse in me got worried that she'd had a car accident or something. So I called the police, and they did a residence check at the OM's house, and indeed she was there. I was glad she was safe, but it also made me sick to my stomach to think that she was with him, while I was awake worrying.

 

She apologized, and I reiterated that if we are going to be separate, we still have 2 children, and I NEED to know where she is, even if it is at the OM house.

 

 

 

Anyway.. I really need support from people who've been THROUGH this, and tell me that I will make it. Because right now.. I'm so exhausted with the hurt... it doesn't seem like it will ever end. And I don't know how I can let her go... even though that's what I need to do.

 

 

Thanks

 

El-P

[Ladyjane14]

I am starting to understand however, the reasons for it. It has a lot to do with the speed of our courtship and having kids. She was a kid at the time, and has been "trapped" in this relationship, but didn't have the self-esteem, confidence to get out earlier. She feels very guilty about it, and has let me know. She loves me as a best friend, and wants me to help her through her self discovery.

 

Please see an attorney at your earliest possible convenience and put this woman out of your life. Jesus, man... she's sneaking out, screwing some other guy like an alley cat in heat.. and still living in your HOUSE. And here you are... regurgitating her "rewrite" of your marital history like it was the Lord's own gospel.

 

Get a court order and put her out. (!!!!)

 

You are at NO OBLIGATION to be her "best friend" or anything even close to that. Where is your spine, man???

 

Look... you don't have to be an a*hole. You don't have to be angry and mean. But you DO have to stand up for yourself. I'm telling you, you're gonna be kicking yourself in the ass for YEARS to come if you lay down like a doormat and let her walk across you. A WS (wayward spouse) cannot be trusted to look out for her betrayed mate's best interest.

 

I don't recommend this to everyone... but go over to the General Questions II section of the marriagebuilders.com discussion forum and read some threads. You need to SEE how very common and scripted the behavior of a wayward spouse is. You need to SEE that your wife isn't the only one acting like a victim of "alien body-snatching" on the face of the planet. Read until your eyes need rest. Then read some more. You are 'buying in' to affair babble.

[hurting_in_nw]

Dude, LJ is right. You've been reading my thread...I've always been a fast learner, so while I've made some mistakes, I'm realizing now that I need to harden myself and I had no problem telling her to get the f out. My life is better the less she's in it, and your situation will be the same. I know it's difficult man, but not only did she cheat on you, she's continuing to do it. That's where I drew the line. You should too. Be strong and throw her stuff out onto the lawn, then lawyer up and let him deal with it from here on out. I know you still love her, because I still have love for my STBXW, but it's time for some tough love dude. Be strong!!

[hurting_in_nw]

Hey EP--I don't know about you, but music is a huge part of my life and my emotional state. One song I've found that has really helped me through this time is "Lost Cause" by Beck. Give it a listen...it will take the focus off of you in this, and maybe help you realize that she is the one who is f'd up and is losing a good thing.

 

Your sorry eyes, they cut through bone.

They make it hard to leave you alone.

Leave you here wearing your wounds

Waving your guns at somebody new.

 

Baby you're a lost

Baby you're a lost

Baby you're a lost cause.

 

There's too many people you used to know

They see you coming they see you go.

They know your secrets and you know theirs

This town is crazy, but nobody cares.

 

Baby you're a lost

Baby you're a lost

Baby you're a lost cause.

I'm tired of fighting

I'm tired of fighting

Fighting for a lost cause

 

There's a place where you are going

You ain't never been before

There's no one laughing at your back now

No one standing at your door

Is that what you thought love was for?

 

Baby you're a lost

Baby you're a lost

Baby you're a lost cause

I'm tired of fighting

I'm tired of fighting

Fighting for a lost cause.

[wife_left_me]

ELP, I know its tough but you NEED to let her go so you can truly act like it is over. Many of the things you are doing are in the path of reconciliation when you know deep down that is no longer possible. Make her move out ASAP and and only speak to her regarding your children. LJ is right you don't need to be a jerk but don't let her pull your strings any longer. She has disrespected you beyond belief and from what I have read she is still doing it because you are taking it. The BEST FRIEND BS needs to go, what she has done is unforgivable and if you remain friends with her you are letting her off the hook and making yourself look like a fool. Picture her laughing at you while she is with the OM and you will have a different and angrier outlook. Look at the situation from the outside in. Think of yourself as your best friend and follow that advice. I'm sure if this was happening to someone else you would know what to do. Be strong and don't be an embarrassment to yourself.

[El-Producto]

Her statements to the OM in the emails that I found were so strong. Can I reasonably expect that at some point she is going to want to come back to me. I know this isn't really what I want, but I just can't understand how she can go from me to the OM in such a short period of time. I'm so confused, and really struggling with letting go.

[hurting_in_nw]

Her statements to the OM in the emails that I found were so strong. Can I reasonably expect that at some point she is going to want to come back to me. I know this isn't really what I want, but I just can't understand how she can go from me to the OM in such a short period of time. I'm so confused, and really struggling with letting go.

 

Some people just have such a deep hole in their soul that they can't confront anything emotionally difficult without having a crutch of some sort that fills that hole, even if it's temporary. In this case the emotionally difficult situation was either breaking up with you, or just confronting and dealing with whatever problems she had with your relationship. To fill the hole, she found the OM.

 

I don't know if she'll come back to you dude. Our egos like to tell us at times like these that "She'll regret it and come crawling back," but there are no guarantees. Would you even want her back after all she's done? After what my STBXW has done, I wouldn't, and it doesn't seem like she's been nearly as harsh to me as your woman has to you.

[whichwayisup]

She isn't the woman you married. Right now her frame of mind, her way of thinking is completely fantasy and she is living in a bubble. You, the kids are not on her mind, all she can think about is the OM. How the heck can you compete with that right now? Well, you can't. All you can do is show her what life is gonna be like without you in it. If she wants to go, let her go, but YOU keep the house and the kids.

 

She may wake up and regret everything so badly, I don't know...But if she does and you're willing to take her back - AS LONG AS she gets her butt into marriage counselling and individual counselling, and ofcourse no more OM.

 

Those emails, she's buttering up the OM. This is not about you, this is HER little screwed up fantasy. She's lying and betraying not only you, but the OM as well. Is he married??? Do you know anything about him? If he is married, the other option is, tell his wife. Doing this, you'll expose the A out in the open and slow things down, probably stop it too.

 

Hang in there and focus on your kids.

[Gunny376]

The simple fact of the matter is that marriage and fidelity

are not natural states for human beings. Marriage is a

culturally ~ socially design concept, that has evolved over

literally thousands of years. The latest model of which

came about over the last several hundreds of years and is

based upon an agrarian economy. Trouble is, in this modern

industrialize day of ours, the original agrarian model simply

no longer fits.

 

The original concept was based upon one man marrying one

wife, and together they’re having a lot of little serfs to make

the nobleman rich. (While he had a wife and many mistresses)

 

It wasn’t in the best interest of the nobleman for the man to go

about recklessly cheating on their wives ~ disrupted the system

don’t you know. The Church helped in this in keeping the serfs

in line.

 

This evolved up to the Victorian Age, when it was believed that

women didn’t even like sex, and the only reason they indulged in

such was to get and keep a husband, and to have children.

 

The original idea behind a man asking a girls father for her hand

in marriage was so the father of the girl could make a decision about

the man’s character. As to whether he would make a good husband

and father. If the girls father mis-judged the man’s character, he could

very well find that she would be coming back to his house, and bringing

even more mouths to feed, not to mention to cloth, etc.

 

Back then most people made their living off the land, producing what

the needed, and selling the excess for what they couldn’t produce on

their own. The husband and wife were a team ~ and they depended

upon each other for their own mutual day to day survival. That is to

say that marriage use to be a matter and question of day to day function

~ today its mostly emotional.

 

The truth of the matter is that men and women no longer need one

another for their mutual day to day survivability. For the better part

of human history ~ a woman had to have a man for her day to day

survival. Her choices were very limited. Either get married or become

a prostitute. That is not the case in the modern age. Many women work

at many of the jobs that men work at, and not only do they succeed at them they exceed at them.

 

Even with nominal job training, education, job experience, a woman who’s

always been "just a housewife" the divorce laws are such that between child support, spousal support, etc they can make it without a man.

 

And the truth be told with the advent of such modern day conveniences

such as the automatic dishwasher, washer, dryer, wrinkle free clothing,

microwaves ~ most men don’t need a woman.

 

Add this to hundreds if not thousands of years of myths, fallacies, precepts about what "love" is and what marriage is, combined with and endless onslaught from Hollywerid (to include any and all forms of media from films, "romance novels", "True Romance" magazines, "soap operas" etc ad nauseam) as to what a "real man is" or how "a real marriage is suppose to be like and you’ve got yourself one Hell of a mess. You’ve got an impossible standard that no one can measure up to.

 

Added to this that most people don’t have a freaking clue as to what it

means to be married when they get married. In this modern age where

do we learn how to be successfully married? In middle school? In

high school? In college? Gee, I must have been out sick those days!

Certainly not from our parents? Many of which are on the fourth or

fifth marriage or LTR?

 

How about good old Ann Landers? Nope! She’s divorced. And she has

this to say about marriage: (As quoted in the article by Harlan L. Jacobsen in "Starting Over Again" at DivorceRecovery101

 

"Ann Landers, with access to the pulse of the country on her input on married life as a popular columnist, and with access to the experts, to studies, marriage research, etc., says the following about marriage...

 

one out of 25 marriages is VERY GOOD

 

four out of 25 are OKAY

 

seven out of 25 are BAD

 

eight out of 25 are a REAL DRAG

 

five out of 25 are DISASTERS.

 

She is saying only one in five marriages are not in the "bad" or worse category. Yet you still cling to the idea that you alone somehow failed - that somehow, you should have been that "super" person that overcame all obstacles and made it work, even when others can not."

 

If this wasn’t enough, add in the constant bombardment from Fifth Avenue about your constantly needing to "up-grade" and "up-scale" Why drive a Ugo when you should be driving a BMW or a Mercedes? You’re a no-body if you’re watching a 19 inch Sanyo and not a 100 inch plasma tv that cost $10,000! You’re nothing if you don’t or can’t drop $1500 for a pair of boots like the "Wives of Orange County" Your kids a loser if they don’t play soccer, play the violin like Mozart, and the piano like Bach!

 

Let it go Dude. Quit spitting in the wind. You could have multiple Phd’s in why marriages fail, and still never understand why yours failed.

 

Quit dragging a dead horse around with you everywhere you go!

[Ladyjane14]

Her statements to the OM in the emails that I found were so strong. Can I reasonably expect that at some point she is going to want to come back to me. I know this isn't really what I want, but I just can't understand how she can go from me to the OM in such a short period of time. I'm so confused, and really struggling with letting go.

 

Waywards usually have about a six-month lead on their betrayed spouse in coming to terms with the marriage ending. They've got the inside track because they're the ones who PLANNED it. So, what seems sudden to you is run-of-the-mill to her.

 

I asked you to read some posts over at MB so you could get a feel for how common and "scripted" the behavior of a WS really is. But I see you're posting over there too.

 

As a program for resolving infidelity and restoring marriages... I think that Harley's is probably the best available. But I want to remind you that EVERYTHING you read on opinion forums are just that... "opinions", individual interpretations. Be careful who you listen to. I remember one incident over there where a guy was removed from his home with a restraining order placed on him... all because he was following bad advice.

 

Bottom line... if you're going to follow Harley's advice.... get it from Harley, himself, via his books and articles. (Although, I understand your WW might have found your copy of Surviving An Affair. If so, it might make it difficult for you to use the program to it's fullest effect.)

 

 

 

Anyway, my alternative suggestion to you is this....

Divorce this woman outright, no playing around, and move on with your life.

 

Here are a couple of guys who pretty much did just that:

 

...I just want to tell everyone that told me to file for divorce immediately THANK YOU!!!!!....That was the smartest thing I ever did and while my custody and all that is only temp it will pretty much take an act from God for her to go in and try to take 50/50 custody from me.I think back 6months ago and I am so glad I didn't chase her and make myself look like a fool and while I still have a long road ahead of me its not as bumpy as I thought it would be......

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t96325/?highlight=mattn

 

I am so happy these days and look back rarely at the madness that occurred. I can only say that I am grateful I found those things out so early and was able to divest myself of that looniness.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t69139/?highlight=spurned

 

I know that sounds REALLY scary to you right now. But this too is within the realm of choices for you. You don't HAVE to go down that long, hostile, and uncertain path. You are FULLY within your rights to decide you've had enough and move on with your life TODAY.

 

Let me tell you a secret about guys who get divorced.... As soon as they meet a NICE woman, they pretty much seem to get the hell on over it!!!

 

Right now, you believe with all your heart that you're IN LOVE with your WW and that she's the ONLY girl for you. But... I want you to imagine how good it might be a year or so from now to have someone in your life who thinks YOU 'hung the moon', someone who doesn't make you feel bad about yourself, someone who doesn't make you feel sexually inadequate or apologetic.

 

Really dude, this is your 'Out' if you want it. She's stepped in sh*t and can't say "boo" if you make the choice to divorce her. Give it some thought is all I'm saying.

[Ladyjane14]

She's not 'hugging you all the time' because "she wants you to pull her back". She's hugging you all the time because she doesn't want you to be pissed off at the fact that she's dumping you. She'd rather have you amicable and pliable, thank you very much!

 

Sheesh. That's not rocket science.

[El-Producto]

Thanks Ladyjane, sometimes the best advice is the hardest to hear. I'm quickly realizing that there is no future in this. I am starting to harbor some very ill feelings toward her. Her behaviour is totally responsible for this, whether she is in a fog or not. She has NO regard for my feelings, despite what she says.

 

It's just such a rollercoaster. One minute I'm feeling great and I can make it through this without her... the next I'm a bumbling fool. The good news is, the bumbling fool episodes seem to be shorter and less frequent.

 

The sad thing for her, is that she is losing friends over this. And the one FRIEND she says she has (OM), she will tire of soon enough. I think that the age difference will start to bother her, and his constant badmouthing of me, will get to her. I actually am starting to feel sorry for her, because when this is all said and done, I'm going to be happier than I've ever been.

 

Now I just need to format a plan.

[Ladyjane14]

The sad thing for her, is that she is losing friends over this. And the one FRIEND she says she has (OM), she will tire of soon enough. I think that the age difference will start to bother her, and his constant badmouthing of me, will get to her. I actually am starting to feel sorry for her, because when this is all said and done, I'm going to be happier than I've ever been.

 

I think you're right about all that. As you read the threads of wayward wives in the OM/OW forum and in the Infidelity forum, you can really SEE the hypnosis at work. You can SEE the elements of fantasy that they're largely basing their decisions on. And it's simple enough really to figure out what's gonna happen next... fantasy is not REALITY.

 

Oftentimes these women 'burn their bridge' back to the marriage. What's more... even after EMR breaks up and they find themselves alone, they tend to cling to the idea that they've made the best choice. Now, I'm not saying that some aren't right about that. I'm sure there are cases when it really IS for the best. But I think in other cases, these women are clinging to the belief that no matter what else happens, they're better off without their betrayed husband. They've had to vilify him MIGHTILY in order to make the 'cheating choice'. And most will NOT back down on their position in that once they've taken it.

 

In your WW's case, where the OM is 25 years her senior and the difference in age is generational... I don't think we have to do a whole lot of math to see "what's gonna happen next".

 

Even so... YOU are the last man on earth who can rush to her rescue like some knight-in-shining-armor and save her. I realize that statement is in direct opposition to some other things you've been told... but if you really think about it, it's the only thing that makes sense.

 

IF... your WW was to return to you, she'd have ALOT of work to do within the relationship. It's not enough that she just comes back. She has to WANT to be there more than anything else in the world. Because... she's lost your trust and she's lost your respect, and she would be required to EARN those things back. Otherwise, you'd spend the rest of the marriage catering to her whims, living in fear that she's going to 'flake out' on you again.

 

Frankly, you've reported that her emotional distancing has been going on in excess of three years. That's alot of ground to cover. Particularly in light of the fact that she's more than likely left you feeling sexually inadequate and insecure at this point having used your sexual performance as a rationalization for her behavior. (I find that inexcusable, btw. It's just WRONG. It's like going for a person's jugular when cutting the hamstring would have been more than enough.)

 

Now, I'm not telling you that you shouldn't consider reconciliation or marriagebuilding. But what I am telling you is that I see your situation as a long-shot. Not necessarily in terms of her coming back ('cause I think the EMR will most likely blow up in her face)... but rather in terms of YOU being happy with her again if she does. I think it's possible that she really HAS 'burned her bridge' with you, more so than either of you are willing to recognize yet.

 

Now I just need to format a plan.

 

If you ask me, I think your best bet is to go ahead and proceed with legalization of your separation and even divorce. This woman needs to RUN to keep up with you, because if she EVER wants you back, she's gonna have to MOVE MOUNTAINS in order for you to really believe in her sincerity.

 

Also, I think that since you're dedicated to having a close relationship with the kids... it's best to set a precedent NOW where they're with you at least 50% of the time and YOU are providing for their needs completely on days the days you have them... much as in MattN's case in the thread I cited you last. By establishing a working precedent, he maximized his time with his child and minimized the financial support he had to give his ex-wife.

 

 

You're going to get through this EP. :bunny:

It's painful and it's confusing... but you'll make it. Just remember that YOU are the guy who's in charge of YOUR life. Get into the driver's seat. This is one of those situations in life where it's better to lead than to follow. Because if you "follow" a WS... you're following a fool.

[El-Producto]

Well, I get home today and found that she has emptied most of her drawers, notably the one with all of her lingerie, etc. Sickens me to think that she is wearing that with him, after me. I'm just sick to my stomach right now. I'm so angry, and hurt I'm demanding a legal separation, and I'm staying at the house. She says I can't do that, but I don't really care.

 

I'm going to write her a final letter, stating all of my feelings, accompianied by a picture of our family. And she can go to HELL!

[Ladyjane14]

...I'm demanding a legal separation, and I'm staying at the house. She says I can't do that, but I don't really care.

 

I don't see how she can stop you. That said, DO NOT allow her to draw you into any kind of domestic squabble where the police can be called. If she decides to stay in the home until settlement... treat her like a room-mate. IOW, show her the courtesy you would show to a stranger. Nothing more than that is necessary.

 

'm going to write her a final letter, stating all of my feelings, accompianied by a picture of our family.

 

Play your cards closer to your chest, man. She's lost the privilege of knowing what you're thinking, and it's not going to sway her anyway.

 

Don't give her ANYTHING in writing that you wouldn't want the divorce court judge to read... because anything you give her is VERY LIKELY to be read in court someday.

 

Keep your cool!!!

[El-Producto]

Thanks LJ, I was having another hissy fit. I'm okay now, I'm glad I can't get a hold of her.

 

I need to know my best plan of action, to ensure that I don't get screwed in any way during this divorce.

 

I will agree to joint custody, but that is it.

 

Should I demand to stay in the home? I know she will be furious, but how do I deal with her having the children when I'm at home. She is staying at her parents when I'm here, but they don't live in the same area as my kids go to school. Why is it when I try to stick to my guns, she ends up making me back down. But I want her stuff out of the house, because every time I look at it, I get sentimental and stuff.

 

Oh, and I spoke to the OM's Ex-Wife, and she shed some enlightenment on the OM. My WW is in for a ride.

 

I was upset today as well, because I was looking at a family portrait we had done in Feb. while on a Disney Cruise. We really are such a beatiful family, that is what is sad.

 

And now she's taken down every picture of her and I that was in the house, I don't understand the purpose of that. WOW

 

Man, I wish we had a chat room, so I could talk realtime to you people, you are all so helpful.

[Gunny376]

Everything LJ is telling you is spot on. Listen and learn dammit!

 

Yes stay in the house ~ its your freaking house, she's got a problem with that? That's what it is ~ her freaking problem! Just that plain and that simple.

 

As a matter of fact ~ you treat her like LJ, but keep in mind that she's not your wife anymore ~ the wife she once was is gone.

 

Don't write any letters! Anything you say, can and / or do can and will be multiplied and blown out of proportion, combined with outright lies that and will be used against you!

I'm telling you the truth, some of these WS will stand up in court and swear that you're a bisexual, cross dresser that likes to have group sex with clowns and dancing bears! While you're sitting there bugged eyed, mouth agape thinking ~ "I can't believe that's the same person I was married to all these years!"

 

I say again ~ listen to what LJ's telling you!

 

If I were your attorney and found out you were writing letters at this point in the game, I'd rip your arm off and club you to death with it. Seek legal advice ~ yesterday!

[El-Producto]

Well, I just spoke to her on the telephone, and said that I want a divorce. She wasn't upset in the least. Wow, that hurts, I at least expected her to shed a tear or two. When I said that I wasn't leaving the house, she just agreed.

 

I asked her about taking down all of the pictures, etc. and she said that she did that for me, so I wouldn't be uncomfortable. So thoughtful of her.

 

I guess I'm just shocked because it's now sinking in, that we are really going to be divorced, and she almost seems happy. 10 years, and she doesn't even care.

 

If she thinks there is a chance for friendship after all of this, she is sorely mistaken. I can't believe I bought that ****. She can consider me another friend lost through her actions. She is going to live a lonely existence, and I feel sorry for her.

 

 

How do I go about this now? A friend recommended a mediator. I'm going to get in touch with one tomorrow. My wife wants to get together with me tomorrow to discuss what is going to happen. How should I prepare myself for this, and what things should I say, and/or avoid saying.

[Gunny376]

I realize that in the light of new day that might seemed like I was rambling a bit

 

But one of the points that I was going to get across was that relationships are based upon functional and emotional needs. 100 years ago it was almost 99 functional in ensuring each others mutual day to day survival. and 1% emotional.

 

Flash forward to 2007 ~ and the opposite is true. Men don't need women, and women don't need men ~ except for the emotional aspect of it. Yea, we could sit around here all day and dissect it to its more micro aspects, but that's it in a nutshell.

 

These days you lose the emotional connection ~ you've lost the marriage. Trouble is? We've been trained and conditioned to concentrate more on the day to day functional ~ while totally neglecting EN ~ emotional needs. This is especially true for men ~ who are virtually emotionally clueless to begin with.

 

It answers the question of ~ "Why Men Don't Get Enough Sex, and Women Don't Get Enough Love"

 

In this day and age and at the pace we're moving its doesn't take a great deal to have an emotional dis-connect. You need to simply induce either boredom or stress ~ or both.

[sumdude]

I realize that in the light of new day that might seemed like I was rambling a bit

 

But one of the points that I was going to get across was that relationships are based upon functional and emotional needs. 100 years ago it was almost 99 functional in ensuring each others mutual day to day survival. and 1% emotional.

 

Flash forward to 2007 ~ and the opposite is true. Men don't need women, and women don't need men ~ except for the emotional aspect of it. Yea, we could sit around here all day and dissect it to its more micro aspects, but that's it in a nutshell.

 

These days you lose the emotional connection ~ you've lost the marriage. Trouble is? We've been trained and conditioned to concentrate more on the day to day functional ~ while totally neglecting EN ~ emotional needs. This is especially true for men ~ who are virtually emotionally clueless to begin with.

 

It answers the question of ~

In this day and age and at the pace we're moving its doesn't take a great deal to have an emotional dis-connect. You need to simply induce either boredom or stress ~ or both.

 

Once again Gunny, square in the bullseye. You should write a book with that title "Why Men Don't Get Enough Sex, and Women Don't Get Enough Love"

if it doesn't exist yet. The problems seem to happen when one person has overwhelming emotional needs for a period in the relationship. It always weems that one person has a lot more ability to give and accept thodse needs than the other. I've now heard of so many divorces happening after a major stress event like a death in the family. Suddenly one person just gets too needy for the other for a timer and things fall apart.