How to go forward....

[Guest]

I have been married for just over a year now, but have only been living together for just short of a year. I am now at the point I am trying to decide wether or not I can continue this relationship. I really believe in honesty and compromise, but I will also admit I am easily hurt by the one I love.

 

First, some background. We are both 30 somethings, and both have jobs. I make a substantial paycheck, whereas she works in a postdoc style job for not much money. She has never had any ability to manage or pay bills (came into the relationship with a year of her salaries debt), and I have gone out of my way to help her (took out a home equity loan to consilidate the debt, pay the bills/mortage, etc.). All's I ask for expenses is what she used to pay for rent (500 a month total). I really thought I was trying to work towards a postive compromise.

 

Instead we get into arguments. I don't try to hold the finances over her head, but she complains that she doesn't get enough vacations to exotic places. I suggest saving up for them and planning one together. Instead I get told what she wants to do and I shouldn't stop her from doing them. Basically, it is either we do it together (even though I don't have the vacation) or she will do it alone. She just got back from a 10 day vacation by herself, and is now complaining about not doing another one ("life is too short"). To top this off, she has taken a job out of state which requires her to be away for 8 days out of every month. So for over 3 months, between vacation and optional work trips, she was gone every other month. I tried to talk to her about it, and got back that I was smothering her and not letting her do her thing. Then she holds the finances and bills over my head and say I use them to control her (although she keeps her whole pay check to herself except for the 500 a month). I have been going out of my way to HELP her pay off the debt!

 

This would be bad enough, but when she is around, she does nothing. I literally do all of the house work, all of the repairs, most of the errands, etc. I ask her to do a few simple things that would literally take five minutes, but they never happen. I bought her a cat which she really wanted, on the deal that she would clean the litter box. The cat just spent over 24 hours without food because she 'didn't notice' it. She was home the entire time.

 

Further, she is an email addict. I work on computers for a living, and don't check email as often as she does. The night before she was leaving for another week long stint, I took her out for a romantic sushi dinner. We get back in and she heads off to her office and reads email for an hour at 9pm. I felt so small.....

 

So last night, I volunteered at a local club to lead a meeting of beginners on a trip. Both my wife and myself are experienced, so I figured we could both help on the trip together and have a nice weekend. I admit I should have asked first, but I was kind of put on the spot by the group asking me to do it. She immediately announced she wanted to do a different trip and was going somewhere else. She will be gone the weekend previous to this for her work.

 

I got mad, and had an argument with her. Every time we have an argument, she brings up what "everyone else" or "joe/dick/harry" says about me. I try to explain that third hand information like this serves as nothing but hurtful, but she keeps doing it. This re-occurs every time we argue, and it immediately puts me on the defensive (which I realize is also my fault). It is making me feel very inadequate, and is starting to depress me. No one wants to hear that all of these people are saying bad things about you! I barely slept at all last night, because I just felt bad about everything.

 

I admit my weaknesses in this are definitely there. I tend to not bring things up as soon as I should, and sometimes just try and let things slide and take care of them myself. At some point, though, it just starts to seem absurd. I do everything, pay for everything, and pretty much get ignored. I know she does love me, but I wouldn't treat many of my friends this way, much less my partner. If I ask for more attention, I am too demanding and controlling.

 

Recently, this has led me to make some off hand comments I should not have said. I do say I am sorry if she brings them up, but she usually saves them up to bring out in an argument a month later....

 

So how do I go forward? Should I go forward? I know this is only one side to a story that has at least three. I honestly try to do things.

 

I have put up a calendar so she can write in when she is going to be out of state, and what other commitments we made. I get snapped at when it is one week away and she hasn't decided when she is leaving yet and bring it up. She pretty much has complete freedom to decide when she goes. I ask that we try and take vacations together, since we are already apart. I then get told I am smothering her. I try to give her simple things that could be done to help out, they get left undone even though promises were made and she spends all weekend and all the evenings only working on her hobbies. I am at the end of my rope.....

 

Advice? Suggestions?

 

Jim

[Guest]

that should have read "she was gone every other week for the last month".... You can tell I am tired.....

 

Jim

[clia]

I hate to say it, but this sounds like "irreconcilable differences" to me. In a marriage, both people have to be willing to compromise on certain issues, and it sounds from your post like she is not willing to do so. I don't think it's too much to ask for her to be financially responsible. You two just don't sound very compatible (or happy). Life's too short to remain in an unhappy marriage, that's for sure. Have you tried marriage counseling?

[Debster]

Clearly you too have two different views on what a marriage is and should be. Either you decide to go to counselling and work on it or you realize that it's not going to work.

 

Your bride sounds to me quite spoiled and childish. Is this really who you want to spend your life with?

[HokeyReligions]

You said you know she loves you. How do you know that? It appears that she does not show you she loves you. Sounds like what she is showing you is that she wants your money and a warm body whenever SHE wants you to be around.

 

I would try some counseling for yourself and if she wants to go with you - good, if not - her loss not yours because once you are stronger you won't put up with it.

[Guest]

Well, she does tell me she loves me at least several times a day. I tend to trust people when they say that, but I have explicitly pointed out to her that sometimes actions speak much louder than words.

 

With this in mind, to show my love, I do things like bring her a latte in bed, cook a special meal (I am somewhat of an ameteur chef), take care of something that is bugging her, etc. That said, I do tend to splurge on 'event' type gifts (birthdays, etc.). She does OK on the gifts (there is usually some thought in it), but does horrible on the day to day (i.e. I can't think of the last time she did something for me out of the blue, even small). I do believe she loves me, I just think she is incapable of prioritizing and making it her first priority.

 

She has many hobbies that are time consuming (as do I), and her job takes some effort. That said, she doesn't get out of bed until after I already have left for work, and usually comes home at about the same time as myself. I really believe that a relationship comes first, and the hobbies/external commitments can wait. This may not always be true, but it should be the standard, not the excpetion.

 

I tried talking to her about the argument last night. I begun by asking her what she thought we were arguing about last night. She paused a long time (which immediately concerned me), and responded 'Well, is it that I don't listen to you?'. I couldn't believe it. After the long argument that is what she walked away from it with. It told me alot about her, as I took it that she feels she is being 'told what to do', rather than trying to understand how a successful partnership will work. I didn't want to start another argument, so I kind of let it go.

 

I did point out to her, however, how much the statements about what other people are saying about me hurt, and put me on the defensive (which causes me to be more likely to say something stupid and unfair). She agreed that it was not fair. We will see if she does it again now.....

 

On counseling, I went once to a half hour session that we arranged. The counselor was horrible. She let my wife attack me saying I don't spend enough and use money as control even though I had already spent the equivalent of a years of my wifes salary at that time on her between a vacation and other expenses we had with the wedding. The bank account was going down, not up. The counselor just gave us a sales pitch basically saying things like, 'these are the tough issues', etc, and constantly nodding her head in agreement with what my wife was saying. It put me off guard, and on the defensive again. Not a productive role to be in.

 

The counselor didn't stop this until after 80 percent of the time was gone. I had to just sit there, even though I suggested to the counselor that this was not seeming to be productive. The counselor even let my wife draw conclusions about WHY I might be doing this, and encouraged the conclusions. I have enough training in psychology to know that this is not helpful to solving these kinds of problems. Maybe I am way off base on this, but it sure didn't seem constructive. My wife walked out feeling vindicated, and I walked out feeling like crap. When I confronted my wife about the amount I had spent, her story suddenly changed and she agreed that I was spending a lot actually, and she was sorry.

 

My wife is very intelligent, and can manipulate a conversation pretty well. She is a scientist, and has to be an influential speaker. She also has no problem playing games on occasion, which I have pointed out to her (and she denies). So I want to find a counselor that is a bit more savvy and firm about how these things can go. I am not quite sure how to find this.

 

After last night, and some of the comments here, I am not sure if it makes sense to continue. I tried to get an honest conversation going, using all the techniques in the books out there, and got back one line answers that missed the mark entirely. I am going to try again to get a discussion going about goals and 'rules of engagement' (for lack of a better term). If we can't come to some agreement, I am going to have to try and muster up the courage to do something about it. I am starting to realize that she has very unrealistic expectations about what a relationship entails. I can't live with someone who is always going to be trying to run away, yet wants all of the security.

 

I just really enjoy her company when we do things together, and wish things could be different. She pretty much has it all (we have a 5100 square foot home in a ski resort town where we live, computers in the house for her work that are more than her lab has [i am a programmer for a living], a husband who enjoys cooking :-), etc.), yet she seems to not be willing to give up anything else for that. If none of this was accpetable to her, then why did she marry me in the first place? It is the same place and lifestyle we lived when we were engaged. I don't really ask for much, just some help with the chores (which I am not anal about, i.e. only vacuum once a month), and time spent together. Now I am just waxing poetic....

 

Thank you for your insights so far,

 

Jim

[Debster]

You sound like you sure put your 'all' into the relationship. I'm sorry you're not getting back as much as you're giving.

 

If it's any consolation, I don't think you're the problem.

 

However, I'll say it again: is this who you want to spend your life with?

[ChooChooCharlie]

It sounds like from your posts that you two are just not meant for each other.

 

You both have very different ideas about relationships and what it takes to have a good one.

 

The only feedback I have from you on your posts, if you don't mind, is that you do come across as lecturing her on what she should do, shouldn't do, how she doesn't see things right, etc. That does come across to me as telling her what to do.

 

As far as money goes, you could just throw that part out the window. That has nothing to do with what is wrong.

 

I just reread your posts. You are trying to make her see things your way and make her behave the way you want her to. I'm not saying she is right (in most cases not) but you can't make her change who she is.

 

It doesn't seem like she's running away from you. You two just don't go together.

[CityGyrl]

I think (and maybe you realize this) that your relationship is on a course for disaster. If you let your relationship continue to dive at the rate it is going, your bank account will not be the only thing taking a plunge. Your relationship can be likened to two ships passing in the night. You both are going in different directions. How long can one person attempt to hold up a marriage by himself before you grow weary and give out? You guys definitely need counseling that's going to be fair, impartial, and unbiased. Maybe you should look for someone out of your area or get some type of referral from other couples who have done it successfully.

 

Your wife is letting her job, hobbies, etc. come in your place. You should be #1. You should be each other's top priority. If you don't take care of home there are plenty of people out there who will. Someone's trash is another man/woman's treasure. By no means am I encouraging you to cheat. But you need to re-examine if this marriage is going to improve. You can not sit idly by and watch it plunge without trying to do something to save it (with your wife's help, of course). But it seems like she is more interested in doing what she wants to do. How can you help someone like that? A marriage is a compromise and you should reconsider if you can live with someone who does not want to bend. Her priorities/mentality is screwed up. In this economy, you can lose your job today or tomorrow. What will she have then if God forbid something like that happens to her? It's time that she starts focusing in on the more important things. Things in life come and go, but family remains constant. And the way things are going, she won't have much of that when the chips really fall.

 

This marriage is as fragile as they come. You have to decide if you really want what's left of it to be saved or if you want it to deteriorate any further. What is it that she truly wants from you? She seems to have such an independent spirit that nothing you say or do matters anyway. I wonder how she would feel if you separated and let her pick up the remaining pieces by herself (paying bills, cooking/cleaning, running errands, etc.). Like they say, people never realize a good thing til' it's gone. If I were you, I would teach her that very same lesson.

[pinkroses]

Just reading your posts made me tired. You sound like a very busy person with lots of smarts and priorities in order. Your wife sounds like a totally opposite kind of person than you, and she is so very obviously not near as invested in the relationship as you are. I hate to hear of a man so willing to work on issues, see his own faults and do so much, being treated with such disregard. There are so many women out there who would rejoice to have such an efficient man as you.

 

I don't know what advice to give someone in a situation like this, if you are both wanting to stay in the relationship and love each other. I just don't see how intimacy and deep love can grow in an environment where she is gone so much, and you are feeling so hurt and devalued. It sounds like the two of you may have not built a solid foundation for your relationship. You are both used to doing your own things your own way and you haven't found a comfortable or working compromise, or system of coping.

 

As far as the counseling, you don't always find the right therapist the first time. If nothing else, go to one yourself so that you can be heard and your ranting wife won't take up all the time. I hope you find some peace and answers. In the meantime, hang in there, knowing you're doing your best and try not to lose yourself in the midst of the chaos. You sound like you have a lot to give to the right person.