The ex.....

[femfaitalian]

I have a very "usual" problem. The ex-wife. The difference between me and, probably, most other women is that my boyfriend (of about a year) has a great relationship with his ex.

 

Here's where the twists come in. He has told me right from the start of this relationship that he loved his wife more than anyone could imagine and that when they split up, over three years ago, that he was truly devastated. ( She left saying that he wasn't enough for her.) It was two years before he felt "date-able" again.

 

When we met, it was like an instant attraction, like we were truly meant to meet. Before I met Mike, if anyone had asked me if I believed in love at first site, I would have told them it's all a myth...that it doesn't exist. But I couldn't say that now. For the first time in my life I feel like I've met the man I was intended for.

 

When we first started seeing each other, Mike's attitude about his ex-wife was just like most men's. She existed and it's over. However, Mike's health insurance is being carried by his ex through her employer so it was just a matter of time before he had to make the treck to New Jersey (where she lives and works) to take care of some medical issues. The first time was about 2 months after we started seeing each other seriously. We talked about it and he said he was going to stop to see her and tell her about us. He felt he owed her that much.

 

When he came back, everything had changed. She told him that she thought he was going down there to ask her to get back together....something that he had tried to get her to do for two years after she left. And when he came back here, I could see that he was struggling with what to do. And I felt like my world was starting to fall apart.

 

Well, I gave him the space he needed to decide what he needed to do. I kept quiet, listened and told him that whatever his decision, I would be okay. I only wanted him to be happy. His decision was to be with me. He said that he loved me and couldn't walk away, and that even if he did choose to go back, he couldn't trust her to not do what she did again anyways. So for a while, I walked on eggshells hoping that he wouldn't change his mind. And so far he’s still here.

 

Another twist.....Mike has some serious back problems and other serious issues that he needs to go to NJ for on a regular basis. Now, since the first trip, when he goes, he makes sure to take the time to spend several hours visiting his exwife. She now becomes his support for all his medical visits which makes me feel totally left out. When I do ask about going he gives me all kinds of reasons why I don't need to be there but then I find out that his exwife goes. The one time that I did go with him, I felt like I was intruding on "their time" and that I really wasn't wanted on the trip. It was a horrible experience.

 

Every time he goes, I spend the whole day going through panic attacks...some times worse than others. All I can think about is the first time he went and came back not sure what he wanted to do. And even though since then, he's always come back to me, I still can't seem to accept this "relationship". I'm not welcomed into it, to be a part of it. I always thought that couples shared their friends and acquaintances but it's not the case with her. I actually feel like "the other woman".

 

We talk and argue about this just about every time he goes. One minute he understands and says he won't risk losing me over her and says he's going to keep his contact with her to emails and occasional phone calls, the next minute, I find that he's sneaking to see her so that I don't get upset. And when I do question him about it, he tells me that I'm being too foolish about it, that there's nothing for me to worry about and that if I do have a problem with it that it's my problem to deal with not his.

 

He's told me many times that if this relationship fails, it's not going to be because of her, that he has no intention or desire to go back. Unfortunately for me, if this relationship fails it probably will be because of her. Everything about the rest of our relationship is wonderful. He is a very loving, caring and sensitive man. We have the greatest time together. I can deal with him having wonderful memories of her and their past. What I can’t seem to deal with is the fact that she’s a physical presence in a world I’m not allowed into. I feel that she’s still got ahold of one little piece of him that I’m not allowed to have or see. Which means that although he has 100% of me, I don’t get to have 100% of him.

 

I am very aware that I may have to make a decision soon about whether I continue this relationship or not. I love him very much but I’m not willing to settle for less than 100%. But I need to know that I’m not being some crazy, jealous, selfish freak about this. I also know that this decision has to be mine. I can’t and won’t ask him to stop seeing her. He knows how much this bothers me but still feels that there’s nothing wrong with it. We deal with this every time he goes. And he tries so hard to make me feel “safe”, but it just doesn’t seem to sink in. I want to be a part of every aspect of his life like he is for me. I want to be there to hold his hand when he talks to the doctors about serious issues. I want to be able to hug him when we walk out and say everything will be fine….but he won’t let me.

 

So, my question is, is this just me being insecure with myself and am I being stupid about this whole thing (as he tells me it is)? Or do I have legitimate concerns about their “relationship”? If it’s my insecurity, I’m willing to work on it. But I also need to know whether it’s fair on both sides, not just his. Can anyone give me some direction?

[midori]

Wow

 

Originally posted by femfaitalian

Every time he goes, I spend the whole day going through panic attacks...some times worse than others. All I can think about is the first time he went and came back not sure what he wanted to do. And even though since then, he's always come back to me, I still can't seem to accept this "relationship". I'm not welcomed into it, to be a part of it. I always thought that couples shared their friends and acquaintances but it's not the case with her. I actually feel like "the other woman".

 

This is not all right. You know it, and he knows it too -- that's why he tries to placate you by promising to minimize the contact between them, and why he isn't always honest with you about the amount of interaction he has with her.

 

So, my question is, is this just me being insecure with myself and am I being stupid about this whole thing (as he tells me it is)? Or do I have legitimate concerns about their “relationship”? If it’s my insecurity, I’m willing to work on it. But I also need to know whether it’s fair on both sides, not just his. Can anyone give me some direction?

 

I love it. He tells you that your reactions are stupid but he feels he has to hide his behavior from you. No, I don't think you're unreasonably insecure. You're understandably insecure, because he's giving you a big reason to be. He is not over his ex-wife. He is allowing her to be a significant presence in his life. He allows her presence to exclude you at times from his life. That's a big problem.

 

Sounds like for all the good things you share with him, this problem is overshadowing your overall happiness. If the good in the relationship is outweighed by the bad it's time to end things.

[Just A Girl2]

Originally posted by femfaitalian

He has told me right from the start of this relationship that he loved his wife more than anyone could imagine and that when they split up, over three years ago, that he was truly devastated. ( She left saying that he wasn't enough for her.) It was two years before he felt "date-able" again.

 

 

Ya know, honesty is a great thing....but was it really appropriate/necessary for him to share with you that he "loved his wife more than anyone could imagine"? I don't think so. That's not the kind of thing you share with a potential/prospective/new partner.....well, unless you're clueless and still not over your ex. If anything, the guy should be expressing lack of respect for her.....because she walked out on him stating he "wasn't enough for her."

 

 

 

For the first time in my life I feel like I've met the man I was intended for.

 

But do you think he's intended for you? Hmmm.

 

However, Mike's health insurance is being carried by his ex through her employer so it was just a matter of time before he had to make the treck to New Jersey (where she lives and works) to take care of some medical issues.

 

 

Um, how can someone carry their EX SPOUSE on their health insurance? Were I come from, it's not possible, I don't think. But maybe if she's never revealed to her insurance company that she's now divorced, maybe she can. Big question of the day is: WHY is she doing this? To keep in contact with him? Why would he even WANT to have ANY ties with the woman who broke his heart/walked out on him? That's absurd. Isn't he a big enough boy to get health insurance coverage through his OWN employer? When I separated from my now ex hubby, I immediately had him removed from my health insurance, plus things like having him removed as beneficiary, etc. I'm assuming most people do this, too?

 

And not sure how things are there, but does he HAVE to see doctors in NJ where she lives? (or does he have to do that so that she won't get caught carrying her EX husband on her insurance? (which is fraud, by the way))

 

 

 

The first time was about 2 months after we started seeing each other seriously. We talked about it and he said he was going to stop to see her and tell her about us. He felt he owed her that much.

 

What the hell? Tell her about you two? He felt he "OWED HER THAT MUCH"? Since when does a person owe their EX SPOUSE any kind of explanation or update, in regards to their personal life/dating situation? Um...she left him (well, this is what he tells you...there are always 2 sides to a story), they're now divorced and have been apart for over 3 yrs...he's with someone else (you)...yet he felt he owed it to her to tell her about you? I call BS! I'd say he was merely making up a very lame excuse to "see her".....hoping that by saying he was going to tell her about you two, that you'd be okay with him seeing his ex. He sounds like a real smooth one.

 

When he came back, everything had changed. She told him that she thought he was going down there to ask her to get back together....something that he had tried to get her to do for two years after she left. And when he came back here, I could see that he was struggling with what to do. And I felt like my world was starting to fall apart.

 

Say what?? SHE told HIM that SHE thought HE was going down there to ask her to get back together? Well let's see now.....how else would have known this if he hadn't TOLD you that she'd said this to him. You call this guy SENSITIVE? He sounds like the most insensitive guy on earth.

 

Let me clarify something. You say he's been split from her for over 3 yrs. You've been with him for 1 yr. You say he tried to get back with her for 2 yrs after they had originally split up. IS HE EVEN DIVORCED? Do you know for a FACT that he's divorced, and not merely "separated"? If you're not 100% certain, I'd be seriously finding out. Also.....is it that you were his 'rebound girl'? Did he go from her dumping him....to him spending the next 2 yrs trying to get back with her....then meeting and dating YOU? Doing the "math", I'm thinking that's the case. If so, it's so totally obvious that he's torn/confused/wanting her back.

 

 

 

Well, I gave him the space he needed to decide what he needed to do. I kept quiet, listened and told him that whatever his decision, I would be okay. I only wanted him to be happy.

 

 

Girlfriend.....this was a classic '"doormat move." Do you see what's wrong with this picture? You gave HIM all the power to decide what he wanted...either his ex wife or you. That's mighty big of you, but what about YOU? I'd have been peeee-issssed if someone I was dating was so confused and needing time to decide. If he had even the most remote second thought about whether he wanted to be with her, you should have gathered up some self respect and dumped his arse right on the spot. Did you enjoy feeling like a second class citizen? (I mean no disrespect...but like the Dr Phil saying goes....."people treat us the way we teach them to treat us."

 

He said that he loved me and couldn't walk away, and that even if he did choose to go back, he couldn't trust her to not do what she did again anyways. So for a while, I walked on eggshells hoping that he wouldn't change his mind. And so far he’s still here.

 

 

What's this "even if he did go back, he couldn't trust her......." ???? Um, that sure sounds to me like someone who's seriously contemplated going back to his ex wife...and that the ONLY thing stopping him was the lack of trust.

 

Why the hell would you remain in a relationship where you can't help but feel that you need to walk on eggshells, always waiting for the other shoe to drop, in fear that he'll leave you for her? Self esteem, girl, self esteem.

 

 

Another twist.....Mike has some serious back problems and other serious issues that he needs to go to NJ for on a regular basis. Now, since the first trip, when he goes, he makes sure to take the time to spend several hours visiting his exwife. She now becomes his support for all his medical visits which makes me feel totally left out. When I do ask about going he gives me all kinds of reasons why I don't need to be there but then I find out that his exwife goes. The one time that I did go with him, I felt like I was intruding on "their time" and that I really wasn't wanted on the trip. It was a horrible experience.

 

 

Pardon my skepticism here, but do you know for 100% fact that:

 

a) he has "serious back problems"

b) other serious issues, both of which require these "regular" trips back there?

 

Do you know this for a cold hard fact? Are you 100% sure that he's not "making up these health problems" so that he has an "excuse" to go and see her? Don't just take someone at their word......anyone can say they have health problems, particularly in a case like this. Out of respect for himself (he obviously doesn't have any pride) and to YOU, the #1 woman in his life (or you SHOULD BE), he should have broken all ties with his ex a year ago, or more. The ONLY reason ex spouses should remain in contact is if there are kids in the picture. Other than that, it's strange and unnecessary, and suspect at best. If I were in your shoes, I'd be seriously wondering why he can't get his own health insurance....isn't he working?? Or is he some mooch who is perhaps milking his ex for free health insurance??

 

Every time he goes, I spend the whole day going through panic attacks...some times worse than others. All I can think about is the first time he went and came back not sure what he wanted to do. And even though since then, he's always come back to me, I still can't seem to accept this "relationship". I'm not welcomed into it, to be a part of it. I always thought that couples shared their friends and acquaintances but it's not the case with her. I actually feel like "the other woman".

 

 

Sit down and think about this........are going through periods of regular panic attacks, in your opinion, a NORMAL part of a healthy, secure, mutually respectful, loving relationship? ANSWER: No.

 

Of course you can't accept this "relationship" and you shouldn't HAVE TO! Why should you have to carry on, feeling like an unwelcomed stranger, in your own boyfriend's life? He should be turning to YOU, not his EX WIFE. That is just really bent. Why are you putting up with having to feel like the other woman? For all intents and purposes, you ARE the other woman here. No offense, but your b/f is a schmuck. He obviously knows nothing about how to treat a girlfriend (you), or about being sensitive to your feelings.

 

We talk and argue about this just about every time he goes. One minute he understands and says he won't risk losing me over her and says he's going to keep his contact with her to emails and occasional phone calls, the next minute, I find that he's sneaking to see her so that I don't get upset.

 

 

Oh stop! He's not the least bit concerned with 'losing you'.....look what you're willing to put up with? He's fully aware that he's treating you like the underdog, and just as fully aware that you're not going anywhere. He KNOWS your (legitimate) feelings on this matter, how the whole thing upsets you.....he promises one thing, lies through his teeth (wow, that's respect and loyalty) and "sneaks around to see her"? Oh..and justifying the latter by claiming he does it to prevent you from getting UPSET? Okay....you have to wake up here. This is the epitome of a DYSfunctional relationship. He has clearly not even come close to severing his emotional ties to his ex wife. He is putting her before you. He is dismissing your feelings. He is lying to you and trying to justify it. How do you know he doesn't sleep with her while he's there? It's not at all uncommon for ex spouses to 'get together.'

 

And when I do question him about it, he tells me that I'm being too foolish about it, that there's nothing for me to worry about and that if I do have a problem with it that it's my problem to deal with not his.

 

FOOLISH? Well, okay....you're foolish in the respect that you're putting up with this horse-sh*t. And he's off his rocker to call you foolish and tell you there's nothing to worry about. Hello? People don't keep in contact with their exes like this, even IF they have kids together.

 

And it's YOUR problem to deal with, not HIS? Well what kind of d*ck is he?? Any problem that affects you, his girlfriend, particularly of this type, should be HIS problem to....for there wouldn't BE a problem if it weren't for him/his ex wife. Oh my God, what a jerk! Don't you see what a jerk he is, and how he's trying to twist this all around? Next thing you know, he'll be telling you that you're neurotic and paranoid.

 

Everything about the rest of our relationship is wonderful. He is a very loving, caring and sensitive man. We have the greatest time together.

 

GIrl...you need to get a dictionary out, and look up the definition of the words "loving, caring and sensitive." Based on his behavior here, his blatant disregard for your feelings, his obvious inability to leave the past in the past, he's ANYTHING but loving/caring/sensitive. Far as I can see, he's a guy who's got the best of both worlds....trying to have his cake and eat it, too!

 

These 'great times" you have together......obviously not when you're having regular panic attacks, hey?

 

I can deal with him having wonderful memories of her and their past. What I can’t seem to deal with is the fact that she’s a physical presence in a world I’m not allowed into. I feel that she’s still got ahold of one little piece of him that I’m not allowed to have or see. Which means that although he has 100% of me, I don’t get to have 100% of him.

 

 

You're far more understanding and generous than I'd be. However, you're being taken for granted, taken advantage of, and walked all over. But YOU are allowing it to happen. Nobody can treat us like sh*t unless we allow them to.

 

I love him very much but I’m not willing to settle for less than 100%.

 

I hate to break it to you, but you've obviously been settling for WAY less than 100%, from nearly the very beginning.

 

 

I can’t and won’t ask him to stop seeing her. He knows how much this bothers me but still feels that there’s nothing wrong with it.

 

 

Why the hell can't/won't you tell him to stop seeing his EX WIFE? Wow, you are doing yourself a great disservice by letting him have all the control and call all the shots. So he gets his own way, and what do you get? I don't even see any COMPROMISE here...which is a very essential and fundamental element in a GOOD relationship.

 

He's selfish, very selfish. He KNOWS it BOTHERS YOU, but he basically couldn't care less because HE feels there's nothing wrong with it? Well bully for him! Where do YOU and YOUR feelings figure into any of this RELATIONSHIP?

 

 

 

So, my question is, is this just me being insecure with myself and am I being stupid about this whole thing (as he tells me it is)? Or do I have legitimate concerns about their “relationship”? If it’s my insecurity, I’m willing to work on it. But I also need to know whether it’s fair on both sides, not just his. Can anyone give me some direction?

 

 

No, you're not being insecure.

You're not being jealous.

You're not being paranoid.

You're not being narrowminded.

You're not being possessive.

You're not being selfish.

 

But what you need to be, is very skeptical, of what's REALLY going on here. Yes, you DO have legitimate concerns.

 

The way I see it, based on your info here...is that he's not anywhere near being over his ex wife. He wants her back, badly. He stays with you because he can't convince his ex wife to take him back. To him, you're something safe to fall back on. You're here for the 'time being'......and should she have a change of heart, you will be gone in a heartbeat, out of sight, out of mind.

 

I have been in your shoes on 3 occasions. On 2 occasions, it was with men who were "just about divorced"...and had to wait only a month or so til divorce final (they'd been separated from (ex) wife for well over a year and in both cases, wives had had serious live-in boyfriends that entire time). The 3rd occasion, the guy had been divorced for 3 yrs and his ex wife had remarried a year after their divorce.

 

In all of these cases (for me), I went through much of what you're going through. Reading your post angers me because it hits a nerve and infuriates me again, that men (people in general) can't bloody well deal with their past before bringing some innocent good woman into the picture.

 

Trust me when I tell you that these warning signs you're seeing......they need to be taken careful note of. As much as your guy justifies his actions, twists things around and accuses you of being foolish/the problem being yours, make no mistake that you're the only one here who's going to get tremendously hurt.

 

Make no mistake: if his ex wife called him tomorrow and told him she'd had a change of heart and wanted to try again, he'd drop you in a New York minute, without any regard for your feelings. His "history" with her will take complete precedence over anything you both have.

 

Even if he MUST (which I still don't buy) continue on her health insurance, there's NO reason in the world that she has to accompany him to his doctor visits. Either he's a big boy and can do it himself, or he takes you with him. If he wants to remain connected to the past, let him.....but without you.

 

Would YOU treat HIM like this, if the tables were turned? I can guarantee that you wouldn't. So then how is it acceptable for him to treat you like this? It's not.

 

Do you know for an absolute FACT that he's still on her health insurance? (or could that be a convenient lie.....one that provides him with the opportunity to remain in regular, person-to-person contact with her?)...I'd be doing some serious looking into this. Don't just take him at his word, on anything...after all, he's a liar...he sneaks around, which is lying.

 

Does he truly have a serious back problem? Other serious health problems?

 

Is he even really divorced? Have you seen a copy of the divorce decree/papers?

 

Could it be that they're simply 'legally separated'......and he's trying to get back with her, which would be very easy to do? Don't just trust it when he tells you he's divorced (which I'm assuming he's claimed)......unless you've seen some kind of concrete proof, believe nothing.

 

The last crappy relationship I was in, with these kinds of issues, my b/f had the nerve to tell me that he didn't want me to be at his home when his ex wife stopped by for 3 minutes to pick up his kids. Yep, I couldn't just "not be seen"..I had to physically leave the home. Why? I got all kinds of lame excuses...but truth be told, even though she knew about me from his kids (and was in a relationship herself), the truth was that he didn't want her to "see" that he'd moved on......because then that would kill any remote possibility of them getting back together (she had apparently left him, for no real reason, after 12 yrs of marriage). THIS was the final straw in our relationship, and I was hurt and very angry that he would want to hide me like this, and that he obviously wasn't over his ex....so I packed it in.

 

Do you have any good friends or family that you can lean on for support? Have you considered seeing a counsellor/therapist? You need someone you trust, to help you SEE that you're being used and treated like crap.

 

Keep us updated.

[Debster]

Basically in your head, you know that what's going on isn't kosher. You're just having trouble getting your heart to believe it. You've asked him to minimize his time spent with her, you've told him how it makes you feel, yet still he does it. You're not happy in this relationship the way it is, and it doesn't look like it's going to change.