Friend awkwardness 2

[McFadden]

I have two relatively new friends, Sarah and Alex. Sarah and Alex have been best friends for 2 years, but I just met them a couple weeks ago. I clicked with both of them and the 3 of us have been hanging out. A couple weeks ago at around the time I met Sarah, her bf of almost 2 years broke up with her. They both still have feelings for each other, and she also has feelings for his best friend. This has caused a lot of fights and drama that I won't even get into, you get the idea. Anyway she if very upset about the situation and has been venting to me and Alex about it all the time.

 

Last night as usual we were having a 3 way chat on AIM. Then Alex IMs me outside of the chat and tells me he needs to talk to me about something, but I can't tell anyone, especially Sarah. He then tells me that he has been in love with Sarah for 2 years, the entire time they have been friends, but she is clueless to it. He could not do anything about it because she was in a relationship, but now he is thinking about making a move and he wants advice from me about what to do.

 

I don't know what to tell him. She is already very upset with her love life and I don't think she will be happy about another component coming into it, complicating things even more. If he makes a move it will go badly. I also know for a fact that she thinks of him as a brother and will probably never want to date him. I just can't bring myself to tell him this though. What should I say?

[monkey00]

ouch sucks being the middle-man and worst of all you guys are friends.

 

you probably already know whatever advice you give alex, and the consequences coming out of it (whether good or bad) you likely will be responsible for it.

 

If it was me, I wouldnt take part in any of this. Im sure you could talk to alex about each individual consequence for each action but that'd be it and the decision would be up to him.

[Erik]

Your problem will take the 'just friends' tally up to five today. Here is the gospel on 'Just Friends'. It is copy and paste, I got tired of writing the same stuff over and over again. In this case the 'you' would be Alex and 'she' is Sarah, of course:

 

She likes you as a friend. If you becomes her lover, she will loose a friend, she is not interested in that. You have know her for too long; in her head you are no longer love-potential. Basically you are sexless to her. If you test the waters, it will be awkward, and she will resent it but hide her resentment because she likes you. If you are lucky, she will break contact with you. If you are unlucky, she will forgive you your transgression and agree to keep seeing you under the condition that you know your place. Being in love with her, you will accept that. Occasionally you will try to make advances, you will be rebuffed. You will pursue her still, and because she likes you and for old times sake and because she pities you, she will keep seeing you and you will keep coming to her. For every advance, she will feel resentment and pity build inside her. You will quickly learn that you have to play the 'just friends' part to keep her from rebuffing you.

 

When things are back on track, she will be very happy, thinking you have come to your senses. But the love is still inside you, building with each rebuff and the close contact, and she will feel this love, only she mistakes it for a deeper, emotional bond, she will see you as a soulmate. All the attention and understanding you give her with will be addictive, she will not be able to let you go.

 

You will shower her with love, but she will have no obligation towards you. She will take a lover, and when he pisses on her, she will come to cry on your shoulder, telling you how much she loves him. You will be very happy about this, because in vain you will cling to the mistaken notion that sharing such stuff builds an emotional bond between you that will turn into love at some time. This will never happen. You will become her emasculated slave.

[McFadden]

Yeah, thats what we basically did. We thought of every possible thing he could do and every possible reaction to each thing. He keeps going back to "but what should I do?" I tried to hint that maybe it's a bad time for him to make a move right now without saying anything that isn't my place to say.

 

Meanwhile Sarah is always complaining to me about her own situation with her ex bf and his best friend, who she likes. I feel really awkward being in the middle of both situations.

[Erik]

For good measure, here is Yamahas take on it, I stole it from one of his posts:

 

You accept being friends with women. You have accepted the conditions of friendship and have lost your edge. Women will not respect you as a man if you accept being a buddy so easily. The only women you should be friends with are those YOU are not interested in romantically.

 

You need to quit being such a nice guy, accepting their conditions as your only choice. When you do this women lose respect for you because you have not stood up for yourself. They will still be your buddy but they don't respect you as a man.

 

They will continue to be your friend as long as you let them run the show. Now if you don't mind being "just friends" with all these women and being used for your compassion and entertainment then continue as you have been but if you want a gf you must act like a bf. This means telling them of your interest and not accepting a just friendship. Now you can be friendly but don't be just friends. You may lose some buddies but this is what guy friends are for, not women.

 

You also need to observe women and approach the ones that seem interested in you. You can hit on who you like but if you want a favorable response then you look for women that are are open to your pursuit. Women choose the man they want so look for the women who chooses you and pursue her. She will not want you to be just her friend.

[McFadden]

Erik, that's true, this situation is classic. I already pretty much knew this is what's going on, but I didn't want to tell him he doesn't have a chance. And he says it's been eating away at him for 2 years and if he doesn't do anything it will kill him.

 

I feel like this is pretty heavy stuff for him to be laying on me, we have only been friends for a matter of days but he says I am the only one he can go to with the situation.

[monkey00]

How about taking a big load off your chest and tell both friends about this forum?

im serious.

[Erik]

The problem is, there's only one solution, but the Just Friend will never believe that.

[McFadden]

Monkey, no way! I use an alias on this forum but selfishly, I still don't want any of my friends on it. If they see the things I type about them, and my own love life, they will figure it out. That's why I was using the forum to indirectly get advice for them.

 

Erik, just so I'm clear are you saying the one solution is for him to break off contact with her completely? According to him, he would rather be friends with her and see her happy with someone else than that. He also couldn't handle the guilt of taking his friendship away from her. But deep down he knows he will always be miserable. It will suck for both of them, I wish that by some miracle he could just get over her.

[Erik]

Erik, just so I'm clear are you saying the one solution is for him to break off contact with her completely? According to him, he would rather be friends with her and see her happy with someone else than that. He also couldn't handle the guilt of taking his friendship away from her. But deep down he knows he will always be miserable. It will suck for both of them, I wish that by some miracle he could just get over her.

 

Yes. Make him break off completely. He is in great danger of losing his manhood, this quote only confirms that. See post #3.

[McFadden]

And on this subject, why do women tend to do this thing where they see the 'just friend' as sexless and like a pet dog? Guys don't do this do they? Almost always, when there is a guy/girl friendship it seems like the guy is the one who wants more out of it.

[monkey00]

 

Erik, just so I'm clear are you saying the one solution is for him to break off contact with her completely? According to him, he would rather be friends with her and see her happy with someone else than that. He also couldn't handle the guilt of taking his friendship away from her. But deep down he knows he will always be miserable. It will suck for both of them, I wish that by some miracle he could just get over her.

 

No such miracle exists unless he wants to get over her and leave the friendship, or if another girl comes along and swoops him up!

 

Him being so nice (aka not destroying the friendship by choosing to stay in it) will destroy him more if he secretly still wants to get into her pants. However its a different story if they remain friends and knows nothing will happen and dates other women.

[McFadden]

Yes. Make him break off completely. He is in great danger of losing his manhood, this quote only confirms that. See post #3.

 

 

Crap, me make him break off completely? They have been best friends for 2 years, I came on to the scene recently. Hence if I break-up their friendship she will hate me, it will be all my fault. He will also probably hate and resent me for telling him to break it off. It sucks.

[monkey00]

And on this subject, why do women tend to do this thing where they see the 'just friend' as sexless and like a pet dog? Guys don't do this do they? Almost always, when there is a guy/girl friendship it seems like the guy is the one who wants more out of it.

 

there's a saying, within the first few minutes a woman meets a guy...she knows automatically if he's date material/friend material.

 

That depends on the 2 individuals. however there are women out there who avoid being a guy's friend if she knows she cant get into his pants (or he's not into her like that).

[Erik]

Guys don't do this do they?

 

 

The female equivalent of a Just Friend is the Sex Slave. Typically an OW being used as a doormat by a MM, the girl gives the MM sex in the hope of making him love her, where the Just Friend gives love in hope of receiving sex.

[Erik]

Crap, me make him break off completely? They have been best friends for 2 years, I came on to the scene recently. Hence if I break-up their friendship she will hate me, it will be all my fault. He will also probably hate and resent me for telling him to break it off. It sucks.

 

Buy the guy a whore. Sometimes it works. Else, explain Alex this as forcefully as you can, then wash your hands. Ultimately, it is his own responsibility.

[McFadden]

The Sex Slaves and Just Friends of the world should hook up.

[Erik]

That would make life fair. Can't have that.

[McFadden]

He is too sensitive, he will just get offended. (at the whore, and the advice.) However I am going to tell him, but that's the last I'm going to say about it, if he decides to make an ass of himself I won't keep bugging him about it.

[Erik]

Don't feel too bad about it, your mission was impossible to begin with.

[Yamaha]

I would tell him to ask her ( if he wants ). It will hurt him but sometimes you need to get hit between the eyes to get on with your life. He is hanging onto hope and if you are is friend then you will allow him to hear the truth from her and be there to help him through it. It might end their friendship but ultimately it will be the best thing for him.

[McFadden]

Last night Alex was talking about this again and I told him the whole thing about how she only sees him as a friend and she's never going to date him. His chance with her is almost nonexistent, and if he tells her he is in love with her it will go badly. He just started griping and saying he is going to die if he doesn't get her.

 

I told him if he feels that urgent about it he should tell her and get it over with, but to be prepared for all possible outcomes. He also griped about that and said he wants to but he can't, he's afraid. So I asked why does he ask me for advice and then shoot down whatever I say, and he got all mad and hung up.

 

Then an hour later he called back and said he wasn't really mad, he just had to do a chore for his mom. By that time my head hurt and I was in a foul mood because he was pestering me and because of something that had happened with my ex during the hour I wasn't talking to Alex, and I wanted to go to bed, so I just told him its not my place to say what he should do but he needs to figure it out now since it is eating away at him.

 

So that was last night. Just now I talked to her and I could immediately tell something had happened. She said she had a huge fight with Alex, but she didn't want to talk about it because she doesn't want me to get in the middle of it (the dramatic irony of that.) And his phones off, I can't get in touch with him to find out what has happened. Probably, he went and told her and it went all to hell in a handbasket. So great, now she won't talk to me, and Alex is going to go off on me and say its all my fault, just because I gave him some advice. Whatever, he was going to do what he was going to do anyway, its too bad I got dragged in. I just hope he isn't jumping off a bridge or something since that's what he's been acting like he will do.

 

Sorry, I guess there's no question there it was just a rant.

[Erik]

Provided he doesn't jump off a bridge, this doesn't sound too bad to me. Maybe he got the message; neither Alex or the girl seem to blame you, they are just stressed out.

 

You probably did the right thing by telling him to fix his own problems. As long as you were listening, he had an excuse not to ask the girl, but when you hung up on him, he got desperate and called her.

 

If he's not the whoring kind, go drink with him, let him cry a bit. Make sure he doesn't sulk in his room too much.

[McFadden]

Apparently he tried to ask her out in a cute/romantic way in front of both her ex boyfriend and the guy she likes, which was such a bad idea that its ridiculous, and she "mentally slapped him" in front of everyone whatever that means. So his phone was off because he was mordified and left early to go somewhere to think, and he said he was going to kill himself but he couldn't do it.

 

So I asked if he wanted to go to the arcade or something but he said no because he's depressed and doesn't want noise, just wants to be alone. And he accused me of not being there when he needed to talk, and I stabbed him in the back and everything went to hell because of me. And that was after he asked me the same thing 5 times in one day and I we went over every detail of every possible option several times, and it was 11pm and I had to get up at 6.

 

Oh and the girl told me shes not going to hang with me anymore (no explanation) and she wishes I would stop talking to him too because "I put ideas in his head that he can overstep peoples boundaries." She thinks I put him up to the whole thing and I didn't, but no one will listen to me.

[McFadden]

And, he called me again and apologized and said he knows I didn't do anything and he was just venting. He said he's about to call her and apologize for the scene today, and when he does this he will also explain that nothing was my fault and try to smooth things over between us all.

 

I was going to start in about how right now, he should not try to be friends with her (cos of you know the losing balls and being resented and treated like a dog thing.) But I didn't say anything, hes not really asking for advice on that so he'll just balk about it then do what he was going to do anyway. I'll bring it up later.

 

So yeah it sucks being the friend of the just-a-friend. My phone has been ringing on and off all day with this 'crisis' (in between my own problem) and I haven't been able to get anything done without being distracted since I got home. Normally would ignore it but he pulled the suicidal card.